16 November 2006

Another fatality from a police chase - UPDATED

| johnboy
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[First filed: November 14, 2006 @ 14:56]

The ABC is reporting that an elderly woman has died near the Woden Police Station after getting caught up in a high speed pursuit.

“The pursuit ended late this morning when two cars collided in south Canberra. Police have confirmed an elderly woman died after her car was hit about 11:30am AEDT outside the Woden Police Station.”

While in principle supporting the idea that police should chase people who run away from them, how many lives are being saved compared to how many we’re losing?

UPDATED: The Canberra Times has gone into overdrive today, we get three local stories on their website, sadly it’s all the same story.

First up is Tamara Glumac’s effort to intensify the tragedy with tales of Christmas shopping interrupted by CARnage.

Then Victor Violante informs us that Amber Jane Westin, 21, of Higgins allegedly “appeared disoriented and was swerving on the road” as she tried to run from police in her crappy old car. Interestingly the description of the incident sounds more like an effort to stop a car and less like the “pursuit” described in the original reportage.

Then Tamara is back with ACT Chief Police Officer, Audrey Fagan, standing by her officers and the news that a scheduled review into the current pursuit guidelines is due next April.

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Ah, the classics.

This one was my favourite:

peter horsefield said :

is this site funded by Government

I miss Haiku Jim.

colourful sydney racing identity3:26 pm 02 Dec 10

Pretty serious bump here. With Crazy Chester having closed off her blog of rational thought, I needed some insanity. I came across this and got it in spades.

So many wonderful quotes from Jim, too many to post, but this one tickled me in an oh so nice way.

jim said :

john boy
you have no standards as you allow scum to insualt me but wipe my coments

Hey, to be fair she did show remorse for her actions!

Time for a bloody purge of the ACT Court system, methinks.

The ACT Courts may be forced to caution her a 2nd time that if she breaches her bail again, she may be spoken to sternly before she gets bail again

Local news bulletin came in during the cricket – am I correct in thinking she was bailed _again_ today after breaching bail conditions again?

Can we at least hope she’s had her licensce confiscated? Or is that too much to hope for?

Bailed today.

well reading that took an hour from my life, made my eyes sore, and reaffirmed my mums sdvice that people will judge you by your manner of communication. but what a cracker!!! puts crazy chester in the shade!
johnboy, you really should have a lair and a white cat to stroke….you have a reputation to uphold now!!!

Yoda, talk like you are, Yes, sense make you, No.

I figured he was being nearly as quick on the Say It! button as the RA team were on the Delete key.

I would hazard to guess that he is the most deranged psycho to date.

Although he faces stiff competition from Crazy Chester who admitted breaking the law on this site, he scored a lot of psycho points with his ramblings

Well he can’t say he wasn’t warned. After deleting a few hundred comments it was just easier to block his access.

I’ll unblock it in a few days.

Probably one of your few valid points so far. I just don’t understand your strong anti-police stance, I guess. There’s a bucketload of bad folks out there, the bent copper being the exception, rather than the rule.

And he got caught, and will now be serving time.


el, I was going to say something to the same extent

Whereabouts was this rogue cop busted for drug running?

I find it hard to believe you ‘read’ anything, jimbo.

“Oh, and Johnboy, I’d also like to make a formal complaint to your boss about the rudeness on this site.”
I can picture “Mrs Jb’s'” ‘I-don’t-care-face’ right now.

Oh, and Johnboy, I’d also like to make a formal complaint to your boss about the rudeness on this site.

My guess is this ‘jim/peter horsefield’ character is closely associated with Amber Westin, hence the anger towards the police for arresting his irresponsible, law breaking waste of space friend (or family member?).

Peace to all people.

Not a worry, Jim brother. Peace to all men.

Not much point responding to jimbo while his education is continuing.

No, seriously, I just wanted to give you the address of the college where I learned English.

I’d hardly call that attitude

Hello Peter/Jim,
It would be great if you could go to the Court and report on all the hearings for us on RiotACT. I don’t think Johnboy can pay you, but it would be a real service to the community.
I am just back from Cronulla, looking for you.

I don’t freaking know, I wasn’t there.
If you’re that interested in the case I suggest you pay close attention to the law lists each day in The Canberra Times and get yourself to the Magistrates Court and attend the hearings for yourself.

I don’t care how many you have dickhead. I have several also.

Email me at my email address that I provided to RA and I will give you a quote.

Peter H

On the subject of expecting a reply

We are not paid to provide you commentary, however if you desire to pay me to talk with you, I will for a reasonable rate.

You email me, mr IT expert, I have both of your email addresses already.

There’s no problem if you know Amber, peter, JB was just curious.

Hey Peter(IT expert) I’m pretty sure you managed my work network at one point. How is life after Red Hat?

peter horsefield7:54 pm 11 Dec 06

what is the problem if i know Amber Jane Westin?
still expecting a reply

peter horsefield7:14 pm 11 Dec 06

If she as done what the cops say prove it dont lie like they do

peter horsefield7:13 pm 11 Dec 06

sorry to play your games but I have never met or know her.
the only thing i belive in is a fair go
and you dont get one from you or some or your readers

Two quality trolls does wonders for the comments AD.

So you do know her Jimbo?


peter horsefield7:07 pm 11 Dec 06

if im jim what is the problem if i know Amber Jane Westin?

Absent Diane6:59 pm 11 Dec 06

hey jb is this the record yet for most posts?

peter horsefield6:53 pm 11 Dec 06

sorry but iv never met her
and if she has done a crime lets hear the Truth
all the Truth .
its like the guy that is being charged for killing that peter guy .
he never done it and if he did let get evidence

Oh my, we might be on the edge of the funniest thing that’s ever happened here.

Jim, on topic for a moment, are you related in any way to Amber Jane Westin?

Peter this site is run by Simon Corbell’s office.
I suggest you ring him tomake your complaints.

ooo references to deleted text…

peter horsefield5:40 pm 11 Dec 06

im an it expert too

“You can shape up or ship out but you can’t win without breaking the law in which case I’ve got more than enough evidence to get you a visit from the police.”

The whole sentence Jim, you have to read all the way to the end of the sentence in order to comprehend what it says.

Try reading some books, then re-read the same book, you’ll find you missed things the first time. Keep doing this for a few years and you’ll be about ready to deal with the world.

You really are incapable of learning?

The accident was sometime after you managed to eat and breathe obviously, are you capable of going to the toilet un-aided Jim?

Here, we’re going to do some learning.

Every comment you make that is not related to the topic under discussion, or uses obscenity, or insults others without also discussing something that is on-topic, is going to be deleted from here.

Others get it easier but you’ve earned special treatment.

And that’s how it’s going to be sunshine.

peter horsefield5:30 pm 11 Dec 06

john boy
there is nothing the police can do to jim as i have read his Comments and he Hasn’t done any thing that the other’s have done.

peter horsefield5:27 pm 11 Dec 06

if your talking to me put up jim rego address

No Jim, you’re on private property and the shotgun is loaded.

please get a clue before we have to hurt you.

peter horsefield5:22 pm 11 Dec 06

is this site funded by Government

Jim, it always saddens me when particularly dim witted souls (note the difference between an insult and obscenity, it is crucial), mistake my forbearance for weakness.

You were given fair warning, you were offered assistance in how to put your views across without breaking the rules by which we allow you to have your say.

You chose to ignore all of that and then whined and moaned when the promised action took place.

Now because you obviously dpn’t understand the internet let me demonstrate something from my logs:

Jim – IP: (that’s the unique number your computer uses to access the internet sunshine).

peter horsefield IP: Oh my, look, it’s the very same computer.

I also have your name and email addresses, a bit of googling and hitting the white pages and I’ll have your car rego and a picture of your house.

Now you’re talking to the boss and you don’t get the jokes, you can’t even communicate lucidly, we’re sorry this is a text based site but you’re just not up to it, and sadly have shown no sign of being willing to try. We give marks for effort.

I can block your IP, I can block any proxies you try and come through. I can mass delete your comments and I can delete your userid’s.

You can shape up or ship out but you can’t win without breaking the law in which case I’ve got more than enough evidence to get you a visit from the police.

It would be a very good idea to consider your situation more rationally than you have done to date.

So far you are demonstrably illiterate, astonishingly stupid, AND a liar (misrepresenting yourself as peter horsefield). Yes, we are better than you.

Now “Peter” has got a stay of execution because I don’t like deleting things but if you insist on making this a test of wills and wits you are astonishingly outclassed.

Start using that brain god gave you.

and I have no right to speak on others’ consensual sex lives and how they negotiate them

I will now shut up

I think using sex as a punishment or reward can create a negative attitude towards sex, just as using food as a reward or withholding sweets as punishment for children can create negative attitudes and patterns surrounding food.

But I’m putting too much thought and analysis into a passing comment.

peter horsefield5:07 pm 11 Dec 06

so why are you answering for him

Absent Diane5:06 pm 11 Dec 06

maelinar – you have made the fatal mistake of admitting it though….

hehe Jey,

I was aware that special K, and JB might take offence at that, however let’s get real here; abstinence is a great tune changer.

OK, that [“I’m sure there’s a fireban on burning bras today anyway.”] is soooo a quote!

Here’s the extract you are looking for;

Q. Why is everything here written by Johnboy?
A. Well really it’s not, but sometimes it does looks that way. The other members of the RiotACT team all submit, some more often than others, and we do get submissions and postings from the general public. Having said that Johnboy puts the majority of stuff up at the moment. Although hopefully at some point in the future enough material will be submitted by third parties that he doesn’t have to be quite so active.

I am Maelinar, a member of the public.

Peter (Jim) you held it together for a few posts, but the spelling got the better of you again.

Is there a special name for someone who hates those that can spell?
Illiterobiac or something?

“Mrs JB would probably therefore be his boss, by virtue of not having sex with him when she disagrees with him.”

I dare say that may have offended ‘Mrs JB’ as , I believe, she is still muchly her own person and far from ‘Mrs JB’, however before I go burning my bra I will shut up and let ‘Mrs JB’ speak for herself.

I’m sure there’s a fireban on burning bras today anyway.

Absent Diane5:00 pm 11 Dec 06

finkle and einhorn are the same!!!! :O

peter horsefield4:59 pm 11 Dec 06

I have read them but didnt find what i was looking for.
and who are you

Peter H, you might want to read the FAQ before you get less than strategically pointed there by RA Staffmembers.

RA is run by a team, however JB would be regarded as the leader of that team by virtue of his posts alone.

Mrs JB would probably therefore be his boss, by virtue of not having sex with him when she disagrees with him.

Sorry to offend the general populace by stating the blazingly obvious

Johnboy is god.

peter horsefield4:53 pm 11 Dec 06

is that for me or this jim guy

Farewell Jim, our interaction with you was remarkably entertaining however short it was.

Here’s a few observations that I have picked up from your posts:

You can’t spell. You should seek assistance with that – seriously.
You take offence easily. Any reasonable internet discussion generally involves the ebb and flow of pro and against discussion. While it is reasonable to not agree with somebody else, it is not reasonable to;
You offer offence. Swearing and Cussing and otherwise offending people aren’t responses, they are personal attacks. Getting your opinion heard while making a personal attack is considered an art of grammatical and educational qualities, unfortunately something deficient in your retinue.
You consider some very amazing things. Worked for Earnest Hemmingway, perhaps in your self improvement cycle you may encounter him. I dare to say that I hope that you do. Currently your opinion of the Police Force fringes on nothing short of fictional. I am glad to say that most of Australia does not agree with you.
If I were your boss I would fire you. Nothing short of the harsh reality of life, you are more volatile than a hot potato, infact you are an exploding hot potato. And you can’t spell. And you passionately believe that the police, amoung other things; crept up to your house and broke your windows, could have prevented your wife from slipping and hitting a table, and have deliberately disregarded you on several occasions (something I have already discussed that they may not have understood what you were saying). It all equals unemployable buster.

Hope you have fun on the next newsgroup that you encounter, I’m sure they will. Have you ever heard of TSSH ?


peter horsefield4:44 pm 11 Dec 06

sorry i said your i ment yours .
i dont wont to be insulted

peter horsefield4:40 pm 11 Dec 06

johnboy is this site your or do you have a boss
and if so how do i contact them

peter horsefield4:38 pm 11 Dec 06

is see you think its a joke to be rude grow up

peter horsefield4:37 pm 11 Dec 06

am i going to be cut off for having my say

peter horsefield4:34 pm 11 Dec 06

i have read a lot of the Comments and find them to be rude .
this is one from john boy

I agree that wankers stealing cars is the root of the problem.

But as the current policy doesn’t seem to be remediating this problem we again come back to asking what is the upside of these pursuits.

Comment by johnboy — 14 November, 2006 @ 10:50 pm

The incoherence and spelling would lead one to think so, AD.

peter horsefield4:30 pm 11 Dec 06

why pick on jim
just because he has a problem with grammar and spelling .
doesnt mean he is to be treated like this

Absent Diane4:29 pm 11 Dec 06


peter horsefield4:27 pm 11 Dec 06

iv been watching you people are you are a bunch or idoits

What a surprise to see you live in Richardson Jim.
Great gene pool in that ‘burb.

And there was I trying to express sympathy for his possible dyslexia…turned out he was of the CrazyChester school (but not quite as finessed).

are you god.

Until you pay the bills jimbo…

Yes, yes I am.

Absolute gold

Ohh…but he was hilarious…

And that’s the end of Jim.

I imagine I’ll get mine shortly.

He can’t say he wasn’t warned.

dammit! insult is spelt as such

john boy
Act like a tool Jim, get treated like one.
dont you mean moron as i have read you like to insualt people a lot by saying that.

and im the only person that you have said any thing too.
you have go a problem with equal rights

what were you expecting to resolve by this site.
just rude ignorent people

I have read comments from other people on this site with swearing so dont take it out on me.
you started this chat and there is only a couple of people on here that have intresting input.
the rest just like to insualt

Threats now! lovely!

Act like a tool Jim, get treated like one.

Go start your own site and show us how it should be done.

john boy
id watch it too

so they can insualt me

Keep it up Jimita and it’ll be your login that gets what it deserves.

john boy

john boy
you have no standards as you allow scum to insualt me but wipe my coments

i have been driving around fyshwick and tuggernang and havent seen a cop is it to hot for you police in your new cars

Jim is either some real gone cat having a barrel of laughs on us, or – more likely in my estimation – someone who’s seriously dyslexic. In which case, we shouldn’t hold it against him.
However, Hasdrubahl has a point – elsewhere, bitching about the police could well result in the sort of fate he mentions. Lucky we’re Austrayan.

Absent Diane10:45 am 11 Dec 06

Hi Jim, If language is a barrier for you – it is generally best to announce it before you post, you will probably find that people are more sympathetic towards you and more willing to put in the time to understand your point. Humility is a great earner of respect.

so now im a moron.
why because i have answer
and most of your readers dont

if you look at the obscenity its only after i have been call it

Jim you moron!

I wrote that.

Try and learn to get a joke while you work on the spelling.

Insulting people is fine. Cut the obscenity.

i dont like swearing but i dont take abuse for people either

and i didnt write that is was no this site
“Johnboy is a whinging bitch” – 86% of the readership…

“Johnboy is a whinging bitch” – 86% of the readership…

what about the names iv been called.
just because you guys are losing the debate dont pick on me

no more insults

got a problem

i will pray for you

Make your day!

Until you pay the bills jimbo…

Yes, yes I am.

are you god.
i have been abused and insualted on here about my spelling and you make a coment to me.

All I need to say sunshine.

Clean it up if you want to have a voice here, you’ve been indulged beyond the patience of better people than yourself.

welcome worn out.
is that all you have to say

racist im not i just hate evey one

For that matter nyssa i’d really prefer it if you could drop the obscenity from your abuse too.

(but unlike Jim you do have runs on the board here)


if you live in tuggernang.
how often do you see a cop.
And i do have the answers.
we have no rights if we abuse them so power to stop, search and detain is what police can do.
how may people now carry a wepon in the car.
I have not seen a cop car on the monaro high way for ages but friday i was over taken by a green gray duel cab commadore doing 160k and im not joking then a couple of nimits later a white ford with a p drive doing 130k .
that high way is a joke and were are the police

Don’t worry Hasdrubahl, Jim is (thankfully) not representative of the RA as a whole.

OK Jim,

welcome worn out.

I’m not entirely opposed to some of what you’re saying but your foul mouthed inarticulated abuse of others has reached its end.

Clean you act up or I’ll get John Laws on our arse and start deleting your comments. Trust me I can do that faster than you can make them.

No correspondence will be entered into.

Sorry jim, I was busy washing my hair.

Yes, that is why I come here to escape that sort of thing. But then I find racist Jim instead…

iv had my windows broken for complaining in richardson.
a group of guys came back late in the morining.
I now know were they live and have told them to be carfull of there life as the police do nothing i will.

If there was a simple answer don’t you think that possibly someone other than a bunch of lonely blog obsessed retreads would have come up with it by now?

Simple answer, we all pay a lot more tax, increase the # of cops by an order of magnitude or two, put one under every street light with power to stop, search and detain anyone without cause, hooray for the fascist state.

we make it up and we have no right to complain

so you dont have answers

el, when you have to hear those cars EVERY night, then come and talk to me about humour.

Those bastards deserve to have their tyres slashde etc ’cause the police sure as hell aren’t going to do anything about it.

you got some thing too say .

i have many answers
and all you have to do is target areas it will slow down problems for a while.
as i said the big nobs in the police are spending too much it on terisim .
we have bigger problems than that just look at sydney with traffic and vilience

Although I’m in agreement with your thesis, el, would there be such a thing as well-informed nonsense?

you are funny just like john howard

What are your answers jim? To post ill-informed nonsense about the police on local blogs?

Yeah, your post was a hysterically funny piss-take, you shoulda worked with the D Generation. I’m glad you liked my response though 🙂

You obviously lack a sense of humour, too.

its people like you that run canberra and talk shit but no answer

el, stick your pathetic ideal of intelligence where the sun don’t shine.

You obviously have none as you can’t tell when someone is taking the piss.

Learn to read.

we have high payed cops new police stations crim is rising, no one gives way , speeding every day,assaults ,road rage, and more.
so you have answers.
and we have breath testing and 10 cops doing it and thats helping I dont thinks so.

You’d need some level of intelligence for that, Nyssa.

Don’t give yourself too much credit.

so whats your answer
Thats right you dont have one just smart ass comments

el, ever heard of being a smart arse?


Great solution Nyssa, take out _anyone’s_ car that drives along that stretch of road. I daresay a lot of people if they saw you doing that would enact some ‘vigilante justice’ of their own.


And people wonder why there is vigilante justice…

I won’t be calling again. I’ll just stick tacks on the road. Sad thing is, the coppers would arrest me for doing it, before they deal with the fucktards in the cars.

we dont have police in tuggernang at night they are based in civic.
so dont call tuggernang

if a woman rings and said she was having a fight you would have half a dozen police cars there.
were i live there is about 20 or more kids getting on and off a bus .
and car speed all the time .
like last night car speeding and spinning wheels.
I know that its not just bonython as i have seen chisiam shops and streets here there with black marks from spinning wheels.
i have been down hyper dome and the car down there doing the same.
so the police promised a task force to stop it but nothing is done.

vg, after making several complaints, I believe I shouldn’t have to keep complaining before something is done – given that 1) I’ve complained several times 2) neighbours have also complained and 3) that’s what the police are paid for.

Rocket science? Hell I’d love for them to do a “Robocop” so we could actually get someone here.

I mean like Bonython is such a FAR stretch from Greenway….

got any more shit to say dip shit

You’re the fuckwit.
and your insualt dont work.

It’s not racism against you jim.

You’re just a fuckwit.

I would suggest your remark “Hasdrubahl
Thats what i thought send you back”
*is* racist, however.


every time the is a car chase
Another fatality from a police chase
and all ways inscent people.

is this racisam against me because my spelling.
or just loosers that havent got any comment.

VG, I thought Amber’s brother got on the straight and narrow a few years ago (as, I previously mentioned, I did know her personally), so I hope it wasn’t him.

I wont insualt you BUT the things that go on in you country against woman .

you have said nothing to help or solve any problems .
and you say complain .
you may be a good cop but have no answer.

do you have any thing to say .
or are you full of shit

Thats what i thought send you back

In my country this Jim will be nailed to a tree by the gonads and used for target practice. By the police. So why is he complaining? Better to go back to school and learn spelling.

i bad think the poleece are both times. when i call a police i say AboVe the LaW becoz thats what he sed when he pulled me over for nothin i can sped and be drink if i wont its a free cuntry
(Jim channeling) thought I would try it. Very liberating.

I recently got a parking fine. Even got a speed camera fine 3 years ago. I paid them both. Same law applies to you and me.

Jim, go and get a copy of the ACT Policing Annual report. Read it and it will reveal all the answers you seem to be after.

Better yet start up your own thread.

It seems that Nyssa is more than happy to whinge about the Police, but not enough to take it any further. If you can’t be bothered there’s no point whingeing here. You know who to contact, I’ve set it out above. If you think you’re being ignored then complain up the chain. It’s not rocket surgery

how many complaint are give about the police to the ombudsman each year and how may are disaplaind or action taken .

VG is a police office that has all the answers .Ring,complain,give statments,have your windows broken and wife fall on table and she was 7 months preg.
be fretend .I lived in a place for 10years and have video evedence name regos and nothing was done .
VG were is you task force you police promised to tackel these bad areas.

It seem that there are to may wanker on here that are worryed about spelling and not the problems.
If you put more time in to fixing this shit towm and the police not doing there job .
I dont blame the police is the bosses that go over seas and spend thousands of tax payer dollars to learn .
And if we open up new police stations like tuggeranong and woden we are going to get better service like we do now.HAHAHAHa

vg, when it’s the same complaint for nights on end, one would “assume” the coppers from Tuggers (a spit away) would actually come and take a look.

I didn’t call the other night. My neighbour did.

They never showed up.

I expect that a complaint made over several nights be dealt with. Not ignored. Simple really.

If I ignored 1 student day after day after day I’d be in the shit big time by the end of the 3rd day.

So if they ever turn up, I’ll let you know.

I assume you rang the Police to complain about it last night Nyssa, or did you expect the Police to use their 6th sense to deduce something was happening? Police can’t be omnipresent.

If you see something ring and tell the Police. If you get rego details etc etc tell the Police you are willing to make a statement and attend Court. Thats the only way things get done. If you aren’t happy with the Police response make a complaint.

Write a letter demanding a reply, do what you have to do to get the problem solved but, with the well publicised figures of police per capita in the ACT, you can’t honestly expect instantaneous action based on the priority response protocol

Anyone care to bring this back on topic?

BTW, I saw on the news a young man with the surname Westin get sentenced to prison for a few armed robberies (it does rarely happen in the ACT apparently). Coincidence?

When I came to this country I went to learn English at college: intensive course, not cheap. Even I can tell this “Jim” has made a few spelling mistakes, maybe he should go to that college too?

Thanks guys, a very entertaining sketch.
Who’s going to play Jim this week? Any takers?

Really? Cause it happened again last night.

One idiot even took a spin in a cul-de-sac, gaining speed to “shoot out” of the street.

Nice job by the AFP.

“as the cops have never come out to a complaint”

From Nyssa

“I know the police have busted him”

From Jim

I think this means the Police have done something

theres a red toyota that live up hurtle and if you go half way up look at the burn marks off the tyres
he doesent he plates on the car and drives it every day.
I know the police have busted him but he doesent care as he is lebones

thank for input.
the police just need to target the area for some time and it might stop.
last week i was looking out my kids window at about 1am or so and a speeding silver ute that live off hurtle turned and the next thing the police were tring to catch him but he lost the police.
I see this blue toyota with MH dont know the rest but he speeds every day.

vg he might be illiterate but he is right re: speeding cars on Hurtle Ave in Bonython.

It’s that bad I’ve been tempted to put large tacks in the road around 10-11pm to catch the turds myself as the cops have never come out to a complaint (that I know of) and I live close enough to hear the “doof doof” and squealing tyres each night.

thanks but i find it hard to use fancy words .
and i think the people on here just dont like the facts.
I dont hate police but there is allways people covering up and lieing.
just read the head lines how many cops are ever jailed or fired from there job.

CC has an illiterate brother.

It is truly sad when a person can’t discern a metaphor from a fact.


You seem to have a long list of Police malpractice cases.

Speaking very quietly, can I suggest you slow down, think about your response, and do what you can to check and correct your spelling. It simply makes your posts more understandable, less confronting and improves your chances of attracting readers to your cause.

to enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
That right you have a gun so you are always right.
i know a guy who went to the coast camping and fishing this year.
it was early in the morning he and his two kids 15,and 10 got up and went fishing his son we to the toilet the nsw police turned up and was acusing the father of ilegal activity .
the father was upset with this and the police searched there car the police were told by the father his son was in the toilet and was going to get him .
the father was asaulted by the police and locked up.
he has been back to court and the judge was pissed off with the police and it was thrown out of court.

your dear old dad also said that you are inasent untill proven guilty.
but you have a loaded gun how fair.
i wish we had law like the usa.
so we can have guns.

My dear old Dad taught me that it was less than chivalrous to enter a battle of wits with an unarmed man

police good people and dont kill or lie.
NY police kill groom on wedding day

A 23-year-old bridegroom was shot and killed on his wedding day and two other men were wounded outside a New York strip club on Saturday (local time) after police opened fire on them, police said.

The groom, Sean Bell, and two friends were shot by police in an unmarked car as their group left Mr Bell’s bachelor party at Club Kalua in the Jamaica section in the New York City borough of Queens, a police spokesman said.

A witness told local television that the men were headed to a diner for breakfast when the shooting occurred.

Mr Bell, a father of two, was pronounced dead at Jamaica Hospital Medical Centre early on Saturday morning (local time).

The others were in critical but stable condition at another hospital.

As many as eight officers were involved in the incident, said police, who could not explain why the shooting occurred.

The incident is under investigation, police said.

Police in trouble for using patrol car to pick up drunk officers .
Police officers at Wonthaggi in South Gippsland in south-east Victoria have been reprimanded for using a police car to collect their drunk colleagues from a …

do you have friend that arnt cops.
try getting out in the real world were rego and life is hard

you guy dont lie or make mistakes.
a number of years ago i went to renew my licence and found out it was cancled.
Id been driving with out a licence for two years and didnt know it.
I WAS A MISTAKE it never new ,or had any idea that i was charge with speeding in the rain .
I put in a complaint to IID and the court i was told it was to old to fight in court and the police office in charge of the mistake tryed to help but the end resualt was for me to pay a reduced fine to get my licence back or take it to court and it can take month.
so i payed the fine and you say there is justice .your office made the mistake and i had to pay plus have a conviction for speeding.

your got lost of free time to play on the computor
came over this side of town and do some work”

We have this strange thing in our industrial agreement called ‘days off’. I never post here when I’m at work, I don’t have time.

The matter is sub judice, which means (in kids terms) in front of a Court. I will never comment on the facts of this matter.

Sit in the back of the Court and find out for yourself. Alternatively read the facts printed thus far in the media.

As for rouge cops, well there are some sexy ones amongst us but not many of the boys feel the need to colour their cheeks.

You are so silly this must be a wind up

I’ve had my fun, outta here

how many stripes

and what do you do desk job

was the light red or was it changing .
was she drunk.
was she druged.
did she have the music on .
was she speeding .
Answers not answerd

your got lost of free time to play on the computor
came over this side of town and do some work

your and cop through and through .
your right and we are wrong.
police are the best and never lie or make mistakes.
since the time of policing there is rouge cops ask ned kelly

Actually I can’t help myself

I’ve been a cop for 17 years Jimmy. I have forgotten more about policing, the law and police protocol and procedures than you will ever know.

“beclonnen police thery got these a couple of years ago in a pub fight “

If you are saying Belconnen Police got ‘theres’ in a pub fight a few years ago….bullshit

There isn’t a word that describes how stupid you are

I can’t argue in languages other than English, sorry Jimbo

you are right.
but most people in jobs get sacked .
the police Not all cover up stuff.
have you ever been to court and sat there and listend to the lies the DPP say .
I have and some peolpe are inasent .
the police are trained in wording thing the way they need to be.
I found growing up the cops were more friendly because we had cop that looked after that area.
so you became friends and new if you were given a warning and court again you would get your ass kicked.
Most people do not trust or belive in police any more.
I was ran off the road in tugg and chased the car rang the police they said theres nothing we can do.
canberra is a joke with policing

Jim dude I don’t think anyone is arguing that the police are perfect at their job but you would have to concede that 90% of police are honest and hardworking sure of this of this 90% probably 30% are shit at their job, but 30% of people in any job are shit at it, that’s life, it’s not corruption, it’s human fallibility and the reality that maybe they should be selling houses (or something) not being police. 30% of plumbers are shit at being plumbers, 30% of administrators are shit at administration etc. You really should be bitching about the 30% of doctors who are shit at it, as one shit doctor kills a lot more people than one shit cop (It always worries me seeing people get there MBBS who only get passes, this means that they are wrong somewhere between 40 and 50% of the time). It’s not as though police get paid much and the conditions aren’t great and many people hate you even though they have never met you before, so it is a job that is unlikely to ever attract only brilliant applicants with impeccable people skills and a sound (I hesitate to use the word) moral compass, this is not to say that many cops do not fit this description.

we dont need a Drag strip in canberra just live in tuggernong.
we dont have police at night and But a very expencive police station.

not anything against you.
but listen to your self .
as soon as you become a cop every other person is breaking the law.
well go to hurtle ave in bonython and start aresting the lebo’s speeding and all the other car
.Thats right we have complained for 2 years with rego’s and still nothing is done .
so you blame the peolpe for speeding ?they wouled not if you guy did your job and kick some ass in the trouble spots.

Absent Diane4:31 pm 08 Dec 06

yes I do have wide spelling. thanks for noticing.

Absent Diane
its that wide like your spelling and insualts

Absent Diane4:21 pm 08 Dec 06

yeah I wouldn’t lick my arse either.

Absent Diane4:16 pm 08 Dec 06

she doesn’t do it for me. I likes my bitches to have some class. word.

dont police cars have cameras

Absent Diane
but not your

was the light red or was it changing .
was she drunk.
was she druged.
did she have the music on .
was she speeding .
Answers not answerd

Absent Diane
I would lick tori spelling’s arse

Absent Diane4:08 pm 08 Dec 06

speak england, sense you making not.

And there is no way I would lick tori spelling’s arse, nor her brother or her deceased daddy.

so am i a bad person because i cannot spell
so i need to get insulted because of that.
if you and the rest are educated that how you treat people.
no wonder the world has lost of hate

Me thinks Jim is Lindsay Lohan
GOOD LOOKING, MONEY ,and what do you have spelling ase lickers.
I just can down monaro highway and the cars that speed SO were is the cops ? eating donuts

Congratulations Jim, it’s a rare day that a quote goes straight into the tag lines without a cooling off period.

But that day is today

“Iv change my mine i dont dislike cops I dislike people that can spell.” – Jim, December 2006

look at your name are you a sex afender

I DONT CARE ABOUT ARSE lickers that think there better than me .
And the police have a lot to answer for.
So eastman killed wincheaster i think not were’s the evedence.
Iv change my mine i dont dislike cops I dislike people that can spell.
Sorry im dumb .
and the news is wrong police the the best and never lie .
Just like gods

I’ll just add an extra point (or possibly expand on what I just wrote).

To be self evident for a second – this is a written debate. If you can’t write to a standard that allows other people to understand you, you are sabotaging yourself from the beginning.

Do I think the police have a fair chunk of power, and that they need to be monitored to ensure that power isn’t abused? Yep, I do. That’s sensible checks and balances.

Do I think those checks and balances are already in place and are doing their job? Yes, pretty much.

You disagree. Obviously. But unless you can explain why, using a cogent argument, nobody’s going to support you.

Me thinks Jim is Lindsay Lohan http://www.slate.com/id/2155028

Yes Jim, you win. I believe the police are doing a shitty job, really well. I don’t hate them, or feel the need to imply they are all crooked. therefore, I am a “cop or cop lover”. Toss.

Oh, and I don’t believe I am better than you just because I can spell and write in English, I just believe I am better than you.

VG: let him hang himself. You will OBVIOUSLY never know anything about cop chases, unless a friend of your friend’s brother’s uncles stepson saw one….

I’m a big fan of the can, myself.

Whoop-ass, Whoop-ass…

Oh, and I’ll add to JB’s statement – if you can make your ideas clearly understood to other people, people are likely to at least bother to engage in your ideas. Putting up barriers like spelling, etc, tends to make us, well, treat you like something that we just wiped off our shoe.

If this was a verbal conversation, I’d be judging you on the quality of your verbiage. Since you’re writing it, I’m judging you on the quality of the writing. If you sang it, I’d be judging you based on how you sing.

Perception is reality, dude. Get used to it.

Open up the can of whoop-ass, VG. I could use some entertainment this afternoon.

So Jim has ‘seen’ 2 Police pursuits and knows the in and outs of them.

I’ll leave it to the regulars…..do I open my can of whoop-ass on him now, or do I let him work it out for himself?

How much do you think I know about them Jimbo?

cultural learnings of Jim for make benifit glorious website riotact

-Tagline – I karnt weed ore wrighte but i shure kan dryve a traktah

Actually, what I was taught is the we’re all born equal but what we make of ourselves is our own responsibility.

Everyone who can spell (or use a spell checker) thinks they’re better than you.

Also everyone who can take advice in the spirit in which it is intended without resorting to foul mouthed abuse.

They’re better than you too.

Sorry about that.

And to show just how dumb you are, guess what? I’ve never in my life worked for the public service.

i have many people i deal with and talk too and i dont judge them for the way they look or talk .
and they dont think there better than me or any one .

your another dick head that thinks he is right
so what do you work as a pubic searvent.
YOU dont think that what you were tought was every person is equal even if they dont talk shit like you.

And what makes me sick is you say people run from police when they have there sirons on .
I have been driving and police or other sirons and lights are on but in a car with other traffic you cannot hear them.
so whos fault is it ours or theres.
may be the girl had her music on and didnt here it.
does any on know the truth NO it all just made up to suit the police statment.


Better at spelling anyway. Also expressing thoughts via the written word.

IS this the john laws show .
were you are all right and no other person has a say just like john laws

As the closest person to “john laws” around here (i.e. able to stop people saying things) you might note that lots of people have been saying different things. Not at all like talkback radio really.

Here’s a tip. Once you write something, go back and read it before you hit the go button. For the first hundred times try reading it out loud and then go back and change it if it doesn’t sound like something you’d actually say.

(unless of course you sound like you write, in which case, well, now you know what kind of laughing people have been doing behind your back for years)

You’ll find people will be more open to your ideas if they aren’t written like a raving lunatic.

“HAHAHAHA” is a surprisingly good sign of insanity on the internet if it isn’t being done tongue-in-cheek.

IS this the john laws show .
were you are all right and no other person has a say just like john laws
And when has spelling and punctuation. made a person better than the other.
i may not be able to speek the BIG WORDS so does the make me DUMB i think not

spelling and punctuation.

I havent been iv only seen two


How many chases have you been in? Careful how you answer (and so the bait is thrown)

That’s Mr Wanker to you Jim.

Absent Diane11:41 am 08 Dec 06

embrace it simto.

When I’ve needed the cops, Jim, they’ve been there for me. Oddly enough, they haven’t killed anyone in doing it.

You must be a lucky, unique person on whom the entirety of all the incompetent or evil cops have focussed your wrath. No wonder you don’t have time for things like spelling and punctuation.

And yes, I’m aware that I’m entering into an argument that even I think is unwinnable. But that’s the Riotact way…

wanker are you a cop lover too
there is news all the time about cops doing wrong.

so your all for cops killing people too.
I hope you turn comes when you need them.

im talking 15 year ago
the guy live about 10 houses away and it may of been guilty by associate .I dont smoke drink and take drugs .
i dont have a hate for cops but they way they have there own laws .

Hey Danman,

Your relo’s probably know my relo’s 🙂


My surname is synonomous with junkies and druggo’s in Qbn – being my immediate relatives.
Matter of fact – one of the last times I saw one of my uncles – he was in civic dealing smack out the bottom of an occupied stroller.

Needless to say I do not associate myself with these criminals and devo’s

I now work in a branch of Law Enforcement with a TS clearance.

Are u sure you were pulled over because your name was the same as a drugo ?

Not the way the cops or LEA’s work sunshine.

While bating the mentally ill is always amusing in a talkback-radio kind of way, trying to engage the irrational in a rational argument tends to expand the field of idiocy to include you.

So, Jim, sorry about your condition and hope the tablets work.

I have a few questions Jim.
How do you use a mouse without a fully opposable thumb?
Do I blame your level of literacy on the lack of educational opportunities available in Goulburn or Longbay?
Are you still pissed from last night or have you been drinking this morning?
Is there anybody who isn’t better than you?
Did you steal the computer you’re using from a home or a business?
Do you really think rockspider rehabilitation programs work or do they merely train rockspiders to know what to say to the psychiatrist/parole board?

Absent Diane11:07 am 08 Dec 06

WOW – you think that too?

Absent Diane
lets get you to run canberra .
what a great place too live

Absent Diane

Absent Diane11:01 am 08 Dec 06

I wouldn’t take it personally, i consider myself better than most people.

Absent Diane
so your better than me

There is no law above our law that applies to policemen and politicians as you may think.
what lies there has been in canberra politicians in canberra busted for drink driving and other things and let off as well as police just look at the news .

Absent Diane10:55 am 08 Dec 06

outstanding display of grammar and spelling.

beclonnen police thery got these a couple of years ago in a pub fight .
and i have two mates that are cops but verry old school were you try to help and give a warning.
as a i was 18 and had a car in narrabundah i was pull over and picked on by police for nothing ALL because my name was the same as a drugo and crock so i was called his brother.
SO some times you get upset for being picked on for nothing.
my parents home was raided for drugs and me and my brother were assolted wrong home so the police said but that didnt help up we were charged . JUSTICE

Jim, how about dropping a 500lb bomb on speeding cars – that’ll stop them in their tracks?

Anyway, all Police are corrupt, and we all know it was the AFP who murdered Azaria Chamberlain and Harold Holt.

I’ve also heard that the AFP have a secret spybase in Belconnen where they torture people and eat babies.

These languages you speak of appear to be nouns and verbs rather than actual languages. I take it that your spelling and grammatical errors were unintentional.

I also have seen this chase-by-police you speak of, I have been watching it over many programs since the theme tune was ‘bad boy what you going to do’.

I think you may find that the police maintain the law, and are subject to the law, or words to that effect. There is no law above our law that applies to policemen and politicians as you may think.

In your speak: Joo r a dickhed k right. Ktksbye.

DDR was east germany.

if amber jane westin offended in karl marx staadt i dont think shed be on bail right now.

And Maelinar.
The 4 languages you know is police love ,lieing,wanking,and dick head.
I have seen a police chase and if you think you know so much . Have you seen or been in one.
And the police are a law above the law.

vg i ment DPP .
Thats right police lovers dont make mistakes. Just like the police because there well trained in public relations. HAHAHAHA

Wasn’t the DDP something to do with East Germany?

Jim, I don’t think the police may have understood what you sent them. I know 4 languages other than english and I find it difficult to understand you, comparatively the police do not have such training.

The boxing method you speak of that you have seen on the television is used in special circumstances, such as those long huge roads most people call motorways, I’m reasonably certain that you have never seen one yet other than on the television so I’ll keep the conversation pertinent. Simply put, boxing and ramming take a lot of roadspace to achieve, and are highly risky activities, not only do they have the potential to take out valuable police officers, they also have the potential to take out valuable police resources such as police cars.

Quickly do some math here. Australia does not have the resources to manage a large fleet of police officers and vehicles as does England or the United States, so why do you think this is a reasonable option ?

This thread is off focus, conveniently due to wanker_wanker’s continuous attempts to rebut conversation, primarily due to his own absence of intelligence or substance.

As bonfire stated earlier, softhead mentality of give them a hug and promise to never do it again is not a solution, I can only pray that somebody deems whatever assetts worthy of theft or vandalism are attractive enough for aforesaid activities for them, so they too can realise the benefit of having somebody who actually cares, and is actually prepared to do something about it before they consider reposting their softhead ways.

Please also remember softheads, when mamma read you the bible when you were younger she said that ‘the meek shall inherit the earth’. Although I understand that this is a bit of a mantra for you, the bible was written before the age of gunpowder and your staying at the bottom unless you do something about it, whinging about your situation will not help you either.

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Often, if I wear rouge, people find me less of a rogue

If it was in woden all the police had to do was get in front of her and arange for another car to go behind like the do in englind and USA and box her in with out and one getting hurt.
You cannot belive what the police have said as they dont talk it is all made up by the DDP and police before the news and any info is relaced to the publice.
Are all you people dumb I live in canberra and have seen things that police have done and let go have reported it to internal Investigations Section and have also sent video tapes of cars speeding spinning wheels and lived in a place for 10 years with speeding spinning wheels and more all video taped and nothing was done .

tossing is your job and you must be a cop or a friend of one .
They have laws for them SORRY they are above the law.

Rouge police? Damn, VG – you started wearing blusher.

Jim, you are a tosser of the first order.

Watch the news another death
Tuesday December 5, 08:57 AM
Girl dies after police chase crash
By 7News A 13-year-old Queensland schoolgirl has died after she was hit by a stolen car as it was being chased by police.

The teenager was knocked down as she crossed the road outside Redcliffe State High School by a car which had earlier failed to stop for police.

She was placed on life support at the Royal Children’s Hospital in Brisbane after the accident, at lunchtime on Monday, but died in the early hours of Tuesday.

A 19-year-old Bethania woman has been charged with dangerous driving, dangerous driving causing grievous bodily harm and unlawful use of a motor vehicle.

She will appear before Redcliffe Magistrates Court on Tuesday morning.

Four others – two 18-year-old men from Zillmere and Bundamba, a 16-year-old boy from Zillmere and a 16-year-old girl from Banksia Beach – have been charged with unlawful use of a motor vehicle.

Police say they were passengers in the car when the accident happened.

I have seen police in narrabundah. in a all day police chase in to queanbeyan and through narrabundah so i was told.
I seen the police chase in narrabundah and the police had no care at all if any one was killed or hurt They were driving at high speed around goyder st and didnt care it was like a big joke to them.
I put in a complaint and i was abused buy the police officer i spoke too.
I said you guys could of killed some one and a couple of weeks later some one was killed in civic and the police covered up it all hidden video tapes and lies.
we have rouge cops in canberra and when you call for there help its a joke they dont care .
were i live we have cars speeding up and down all day in bonython and have kids getting on and off the buses there has all ready been some one killed
but if its a police car chasing a car you have ALL CANBERRA police in the chase.

Hoots McTaverna10:45 pm 20 Nov 06

Even if the police had let Amber go as soon as she failed to pull over, does anyone believe that she would have calmly stopped at the red light DIRECTLY outside the Woden police station? The police could have stopped chasing her five minutes before the accident, but chances are she was going to speed through that particular intersection no matter what.

While debate about police procedure is fine, it is unlikely that anything could have prevented this tragedy once Amber decided to flee.

vg – the AFP persuit guidelines seem to indicate that the police have ultimate control over the pursuit and that the decision on when and how to terminate the pursuit is for the police to decide – apparently based on a bunch of issues like public safety, risks posed etc. How would police make a call on something like this?

“Should they have let her keep driving poorly until she either got to her destination, or caused an accident anyway?”

Please tell me you’re kidding.

She did cause an accident, and someone was tragically killed. If she stopped when initially directed none of this would have happened

… and gentlemen your well thought out solutions would be? Surprise me.

This isn’t directly relevant to the subject of this thread, but may be helpful nonetheless. If you use Firefox to browse this site you have acess to a tool called Greasemonkey, obtainable here. Greasemonkey does many things, among them running a script called killfile, obtainable here. Killfile has been modified by the author to work with the-riotACT site. What it does is put a button “kill” next to an author’s name. Click it and your browser no longer shows their comments – at all, anywhere – till you choose to letthem back. it doesn’t alter the-riotACT, just what you see of it. From recent experience in this thread alone it makes for far more informative reading. Enjoy!

Staleywise, it says that the police noticed the car because it was driving erratically. They were in an unmarked car, so her driving poorly was occurring prior to her being aware of any police in the vicinity. Should they have let her keep driving poorly until she either got to her destination, or caused an accident anyway?


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Both are ‘true to type’.

With perhaps being a little less angry than pi55ed and tool, let me assure you Stanleywise that pursuits are regulated within an inch of their life.

Staleywise you are another example of why brother and sister should not fuck each other. Like your clown mate w_w you are yet another poster of insipid factless drivel.

Tool is right, remove your head from your rectum you fuckwit and if you are going to refer to deceased persons have the respect and dignity to mention Clea by her name.

If you believe the Police were behaving in a dangerous way, report this to the Internal Investigations Section. I’m sure they would love to hear from another pissing and moaning member of the public like you.

I have no doubt you are another armchair witness who has no idea what occured on the day and are only basing your comments on assumption and what you read in the cut and paste periodical (canberra times).

What should Police do when someone breaks the law? No doubt you would like them to throw their hands up in the air lest they upset some worthless dribbler like you by doing their job.

Bottom line is, Miss Westin was driving an unregistered car, was unlicensed, had failed to appear in court on the morning of the accident, failed to stop when signalled to by Police, and as a result of her driving, Ms Heather Freeman is now deceased.

I would love to hear what you would do if your house got robbed, your car got stolen, or you were bashed for your pocket change by some worthless druggie shitbags. I bet that would be the fault of the Police for not being there to protect you!

Staleywise, I think you just surpassed Wagga with your stupid comment. How was this a reckless, dangerous car chase? Wake up, just when the thread had gone to bagging Ms Westin, you have to resurface and bag the police.

Your ignorance to the whole matter is shithouse. If you are going to put your two cents in, at least do some research. That ‘poor little dead girl’ in Civic did have a name – Clea Rose. You obviously have your head too far up your ass to take note.

Your comment ‘Just because some mindless twit is driving stupidly and dangerously doesn’t give license to the Police to behave irresponsibly. Not blaming them’ How can you go from calling them irresponsible, yet then say it is not their fault?

As for your comments in relation to police interception techniques………..

Let me guess, they throw their mobile phone at the offender, and radio in for a new one? Then when the criminal thinks they have outrun the police? When is that? Is that after they have driven 160km/h down the street to get away – still putting the public at risk? I guarantee you the baddies don’t slow down to the speed limit once the cops are out of sight. With that in mind how do they ‘safely’ intercept a car when they don’t know where it is?

Safe as houses? Nobody is ever safe, especially when there are knobs on the road, and this is an example of what can happen. My money is that the crash would have happened regardless of whether the police were involved.

There was no doubt about who was to blame here. It was the person in the car trying to make a get-away, we all know what she should’ve done, but she didn’t and she was never going to. That’s what a criminal does.

There is no argument; the criminal is wrong and when they are caught, throw the book at them with the full force of the law. But don’t allow them to dictate the behavior on the road that will endanger other innocent people.

We are in charge here, the taxpayers and voters, not the criminal and not the police. The police are our public servants. We have found a hole that has to be plugged. We need to tidy up the law about police responsibilities in built up areas. We aren’t allowed to race on our roads and the laws are for everybody’s protection. Police should not behave in an irresponsible way either, just because a criminal does.

There are lots and lots of options. Yes, they might not be so sexy or glamorous. Contrary to what the Americans would have us believe, the police are not meant to be sexy or glamorous. But they have lots of options at their disposal.
• There are mobile phones;
• There are police radios;
• Police cars can intercept (safely) up ahead when the criminal thinks they’ve out run them;
• Canberra is a small town, people are easy to find, there is no urgency EVER to give good enough reason to have a reckless, dangerous car chase amongst innocent drivers doing innocent things;
• Public information, you can’t tell me in a small town like this that someone doesn’t know them;

Just because some mindless twit is driving stupidly and dangerously doesn’t give license to the Police to behave irresponsibly. Not blaming them, just pointing out a flaw in the system. That poor dead little girl in Civic should have been as safe as houses walking around a supposedly pedestrian area. The criminals who drove through there, drove through there, the police should not have. Two wrongs don’t make a right. The Police are meant to protect the public. Protect us.

Obscenity rating 3
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WW, I have a penis, you have a mouth. Coincidence?


I think you were trying to be polite, and you almost made it.

W_W you first class moron. As much as it pains me to do this I am going to answer your question, only because it might enlighten others, and staggeringly it’s the first thing you’ve put up here that is a reasonable question.

Certain Correctional institutions “may” allow mothers to have very young (read newborn or only slightly older) children to be allowed to be housed with their birth mother.

There are a myriad of considerations in relation to something like this including age of the child, severity/length of the sentence against the offender, capacity of family etc to care for the child, appropriate facilities in the institution, possibility of mother to transfer to appropriate facility and suitable accomodation being available etc etc etc.

A very wise barrister once told me if I ever crossed over to the dark side and got caught doing something wrong, a surefire way to get a reduced sentence was to have a mother and child (who could be taken to be my partner)sobbing incoherently in the back of the court.

Apparently it’s a good way of reducing the possibility of a long custodial sentence (especially in the ACT).

Young Miss Westin has already gone into denial/remorse/bullshit mode by stating in the cut and paste periodical today (Canberra Times) that she will “never drive again”. A great call from someone who according to the press did not have a drivers licence and was driving an unregistered car.

As far as her “partner” goes, Thumper has probably hit the nail on the head with his comment about the “form” he potentially has.

I go back to a comment in another post “what was this little trollop running from”?

ps: I’m still waiting for the URL of this International Site of yours tosser!

“Took photos of his wife to be”

Maybe he was her father. No thats not a typo.

Outside the court, a man claiming to be Westin’s partner threatened media if they took photos or footage of his “wife-to-be”. (CT 17/11/06)

What a charmer.

Who wants to “guess” he’s a top class bogan?

From memory, Lindy Chamberlin was preggers when convicted and still had to do her time – she wasn’t released until well after the baby was born.

I would assume it’s the same as any inmate with a medical condition – suitable allowances are made, but within a strict environment where all access is carefully controlled.

I reckon Westin will be seeing a bit of Silverwater in the not too distant future.

Of course, if she can get obviously pregnant, on sentancing day, she may get different treatment.

How do the courts treat pregnant convictees?

wagga, is a high number good or bad? whats the scale here?

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IQ rating 1

Nyssa – u listen to 106.3 -I heard it on the 0700 news.

I heard the exact same thing on the trudge into work from the rexxy. No rego No insurance No license.

Maybe she was not that bad initially – but running from the law…. thats bad.

When I was a 1st year apprentice chef – living out of home – I drove with no rego and no insurance for a few weeks to tie me over until I could afford rego.

I got caught one night about 100m from home.

The constabulary hit their lights and siren on me on Eyre street Kingston and I stopped and copped $960 worth of fines.

Did it teach me a lesson – yes – could I pay the fine – yes (I had to send a letter to chief of police asking for easy payment plan(a’la demtel)) – but the point of my post is this is that in both cases the cops were just doing their job – but the reaction of the assailants was different. How then can this be the cops fault?

Chrisinturner – already in place. People are just too stupid to do that. NSW Ambulance ran an advertising campaign to get motorists to do just that.

I heard on the radio this morning that the stupid bitch was driving without a licence AND she was due in court (I think it was yesterday) for an assault charge not related to the accident.

Yes….a lovely member of society.

Waggawonka, trying to win an argument with repetitive drivel on a site renowned for repetitive drivel is somewhat pointless. but you are welcome to keep trying. You failed the bitch test, all you’ll be is a lap dog.

ChrisinTurner11:31 pm 16 Nov 06

I think police rules should make it mandatory for lights and siren to be on continuously during a chase. If Australians pulled over to the left and stopped like overseas drivers do when they hear a siren, then both of the recent deaths may have been avoided.

Good stuff.

I wonder if RA members have been having abuse withdrawals since SGS went away.


Obscenity rating 4
Redneck rating 8
IQ rating 1


Obscenity rating 2
Redneck rating 4
IQ rating 1

Wagga_wanker if you can come up with an original thought you can be my bitch.

There is talk here, that it was a “High Speed” pursuit. CT have said the speed was 60-80km/h. I wouldnt think that this was high speed for this road, I believe the speed limt is 60. How many of us have driven down this street at 80km???

w_w you are a prime candidate for retrospective abortion.

Go back to buggering your teddy bear and finger banging your horse collar sized date you moron.

ps: when mum kisses you good nite, remind her to shave off her moustache, it keeps chafing my thighs!


Obscenity rating 1
Redneck rating 14
IQ rating 1


Obscenity rating 0
Redneck rating 0.5
IQ rating 2

KaneO true, but I mean, how much more of a hint does this loser need?

w_w – care factor = 0

Trolls never fuck off when they are being fed. The whole idea is to jerk there chain and make them dance a bit, then ignore them then watch them dissolve in a puddle of sputum much like a sun-drenched gremlin.

Obscenity rating 1
Redneck rating 10
IQ rating 2

TAD *applause*

w_w you’re an idiot who can’t even use the word redneck correctly.

Why don’t you just fuck off?

See my previous post

Obscenity rating 1
Redneck rating 9
IQ rating 0

Fuck off WW.

TAD, G, pissed

You have been sucked-in.

AFPA said…

It is tragic that innocent motorists or pedestrians are the victims in these events, falling prey to the deliberate actions of those who break the law.

There is no evidence that Amber Westin deliberately preyed on the old lady.

This sort of twist is precisely what we do not want from the AFPA.

AFPA seems to be reacting to their own ill-informed and premature views and are voicing opinions without any knowledge of the full facts.

I wonder if Jon hunt-Sharman’s comrades support his view that “It’s about time ALL the facts were reported”. The AFP have the opposite view.

Hear hear.

Yeah what he said.

AFPA Letter to the Editor CT –

“The Australian Federal Police Association expresses its concern that commentary so far seems intent on only reporting the ill-informed views of critics who routinely blame police for the tragic outcome of Tuesday’s death.

Let’s be clear about where real the fault rests.

It is not the fault of the police pursuit guidelines which are among the most stringent in the country.

Neither is it the fault of the police who are doing the job society expects them to do. A proper investigation will reveal the full circumstances of those details in due course. It will of course be under independent external scrutiny.

We do not believe society expects police to sit in police stations and wait to be called out to respond to incidents only after they happen. Society pays and expects police to protect them and to catch criminals.

It is tragic that innocent motorists or pedestrians are the victims in these events, falling prey to the deliberate actions of those who break the law. The dangers involved in protecting society and maintaining good order are well known to police as they often and willingly place themselves between those dangers and the public they are duty bound to protect.

Police cannot comment on the specifics of these incidents as they are current criminal investigations in which the alleged offender has certain rights until proven in a court of law to be guilty.

Certain commentators forget this, seemingly more intent on reacting to ill-informed and premature views of critics who voice opinions without any knowledge of the full facts.

It is about time ALL the facts were reported, with media scrutiny and comment fairly directed at the true cause of these incidents.

Jon Hunt-Sharman,

President, Australian Federal Police Association


Certainly there has been a lot of emotion/speculation around last Tuesday’s incident but, shoot me down if I’m wrong :), I think the two sides in here are “pro” and “anti” (possibly read ‘find an alternative to’) police chasing suspects in order to apprehend them.

Don’t be too hard on yourself, my reading is that the incident was not what most of us would consider to be a “pursuit”.

lol, that will learn me to read a bit more first. it seems there was a chase in place for a bit of time prior to the incident.

The fundamental premise of this entire arguement hasn’t been addressed from my previous question. WHAT CONSTITUTES A CHASE?

if we strip away all of the extraneous information here (like the victim was a grandmother doing christmas shopping) and foucs on the details what do we know?

1. Unmarked police car notices driver in brown magna without seatbelt. Gives siren a squirt to get drivers attention to pull over.

2. Driver of brown magna (for whatever reason) decides they dont want to be aprehended and does a runner.

3. Police allegedly pursue (at what distance or if at all – who knows)

4. The brown magna runs a red light and kills the elderly driver of the other vehicle in a collision.

The things that are missing as a foundation for all of the discussion above is whether a chase was in place at all. For example if after 1, the brown magna accelerates into an intersection at which they were previously stopped (for the red light) and hit the second car after the police gave the siren a squirt, is that a chase?
What if the magna had gone through two intersections?
What evidence is there that the police were pursuing at all? I’d wager that someone who makes the decision to run from a police vehicle isn’t likely to slow down the moment they lose sight of a cop car the moment it no longer appears in their rear view mirror. Is that still a chase?

I’m not saying this is not a tragedy, but the details are pretty sketchy to be basing anything other than a hypothetical arguement on.

Absent Diane10:01 am 16 Nov 06

if it makes the community safer and means the cops can do their job without having to risk their lives or the lives of innocent bystanders – it is worth the cost in my less than humble onion

Jey is right ….

It was an opinion, thought, idea – not fact.

jb … I agree that high speed chases in an urban environment increases the chances of a mishap and hopefully as you say there will be some valid data to be analysed.

AD … while I may still have rocks in my head – I agree that there is always the opportunity to improve the way we do things and I trust the police will be able to learn something from this.

The problem in these cases, as I see it, is that humans are called to make spilt second judgements which can often have long lasting effects. I’m not sure that they (the police) can ever come up with a policy and practices that can cater for how to react to such a situation. There is radio support for the officers, but at the end of the day, they are the ones best able to assess the situation – irrespective of whether or not they do so rightly or wrongly.

Now, I am definitely not going to defend the criminal in this case (I still think she deserves to get squashed by the law – though that probably won’t happen) but on any other day, she may have simply pulled over when the police “buzzed” her.

No doubt technology will come up with an alternative – but at what cost? Will we be happy to fund it at the expense of something else (e.g. more school closures). Will we allow a potential erosion of those “civil liberties” so vehemently defended? Should the ordinary law abiding citizen have to go to these lengths in order to allow the criminals to be stopped?

I’m sure we all agree that we want these bogans caught but I’m not sure that we (and I include myself) are prepared to pay the price of assisting the police to get them.

Before we go into a review we need to understand that the alternative(s) may be an impost on each and everyone of us and we have to be prepared to accept all that this entails. Otherwise it just becomes another voluminous report that no-one reads and the status quo remains.

I believe propotioning ANY blame to the police officer involved whatsoever is ridiculous.

I’ll give you a hypothetical situation completely unrelated to the events of Tuesday.

Detectives in an unmarked vehicle see a female that they recognise as a minor criminal / drug user driving like he/she is off his/her face. They approach activate warning devices, the driver doesn’t stop. Police follow for another short distance before the driver continues through a red light with tragic consequences.

If that is what happened, what would you expect the police to do differently in the future?

ww, ooooh I’m scared.

Go back to whatever primordial ooze you crawled out of.

New CT article (today) claims driver was driving disorientated BEFORE the crash. Hrmmm….

There are also a fair number of people definately dead who are the result of people NOT being chased by police – where a dangerous driver hasn’t been pulled over, or pursued until they do pull over.

Fair enough, every incident needs to be investigated to the fullest extent, including whether procedures (as followed) are producing dangerous results.

But from what I gather, the police ARE investigating it.

More people are murdered each year in Canberra than die in pursuits.

JB was asking an unquantifiable question. How many lives have been saved – potentially many. I used a hypothetical example beig 2 of Australias worst serial killers. My question remains – would you want Police to pursue if it was a serial killer they were pursuing?

A concept bandied around is Intelligence led Policing. It is based on a model introduced in New York where intel is used to target areas/hot spots and a zero tolerance approach is taken to small/minor offences.

The flow on effect is that major crime (read armed robberies/murders) is significantly reduced.

Its basically this, if crooks know they can get away with the small stuff they step up to bigger stuff and society goes to shite.

If Police never chased crooks would always run.

Until such time as engine imobilisers/god gun type technology becomes common place the police pursuit will remain. The guidelines are fairly strict and every pursuit is scrutinised as to the actions of the police officers involved (read VG’s comment earlier on).

On another note – there was a bloke about 2 1/2 years ago who killed himself after running from the Police (Ginninderra drive). CT could have thrown that one into the debate as well. Not an innocent bystander although still a death.

Does anyone know what other methods are employed around the world as alteratives to chasing/following speeding cars ?

Anyway with a bit of luck the planned review is going to look at some hard actuarial data.

The trouble is that one psycho who got away has to weighed against many people very definitely dead.

The law is selectively enforced in this town anyway and the courts treat car theft as a minor matter.

I’d be happy to see both those things changed but I’m still not sure high speed pursuits are bringing benefits worth the risk in the current environment.

Absent Diane9:00 am 16 Nov 06

I agree that the majority of the blame should be put on the girl driving.. there is no doubt about it…

But perhaps its about time to look at another method of getting these crims… other than by car chase… there is no good reason to not try and improve how things work. And if anyone is ignorant enough to think that things are fine how they are especially something as important as policing – when you have two innocent deaths from similar circumstances… then you have rocks in your head.

Damn – AD – just saw your last post acknowledging Special G … could have saved myself a lot of typing *LOL*

much as I hate to agree with wagga, you can’t assume that everyone who does anything wrong takes drugs. When my partner was younger he did something (very) stupid in a car. He was not a junkie, he was just a fuckwit.

AD you wrote earlier: so what you guys are saying is that it is ok to have innocent bystanders killed in the pursuit of a someone who is more than likely a small time crim

Good point and of course no-one wants to see innocent bystanders killed. It seems a lot of the anti-chase people (and not only in here) are intimating that it is the fault of the police that these people get killed because they (the police) can choose not to chase them. The police are there to enforce the law. This innocent lady was killed because the other person committed (at least) 2 offences – had she not committed either of them then this thread would not exist

Unfortunately the police don’t have a crystal ball to determine at the time whether or not they are in pursuit of a small time crim. And how do you define “small time crim”? Is that the first time murderer, or the person who has just held-up an 18yo checkout girl at IAG with a blood-filled syringe? Well until verification, as described by Special G, has taken place how can the police know?

The CT is making a lot of mileage out of the fact that the poor lady was a grandmother, doing Xmas shopping, etc. A tragedy indeed but it’s about time the anger was directed at the correct target – the criminal. I don’t care what her “excuse” – make an example of her by locking her up and throwing away the key. May not be a deterrent for the rest of the ferals but I’ll sure feel a lot better about it!

As observation can be, but not always is, more along the lines of commentary – an opinion, thought, idea.

Absent Diane8:22 am 16 Nov 06

Special G – your comment regarding Ivan Milat/John Bunting so far is there ONLY logical reason to leave chases as they are.

Yankee Nyssa

OK what is the difference between an observation and a fact?

If you do not observe something factual, you are only observing your imagination.

Does this mean, for you, that your evidence is whatever you can imagine?

Your obscenity rating is 3.

I vote (1) wagga wagga to get a job with dawn drifters – at least they could put all that hot air to use.

Gee, you spend two days working and not looking at the net. New obnoxious people are always good for some enteraining reading.

JB has been asking about whether the pursuit guidelines are justified.

Police are expected by the community to uphold laws and catch bad guys. As for the knock on the door stategy its already in place.

If anyone thinks for a minute that the police following the car aren’t doing checks on the vehicle to find out everything available about the car/driver then you’ve got your head in the sand.

If the car is not stolen then the pursuit would be stopped and the police would go around to the the person’s house and start asking some questions.

I have included a link to a body in the boot job.

Police would often not know who they are pursuing. The question was asked how many lives may be saved by a Police pusuit. Maybe the police are pursuing Ivan Malat or John Justin Bunting – would you want them to stop?

WW, you’re a cockhead.

EVIDENCE…here’s a thought, what else would she possible use to “protect” herself from a jail sentence?

It’s an OBSERVATION. You’re the slow learner. You can’t tell the difference between an observation and a fact.

Remedial English is a necessity for you.

Luckily for you, the net is slightly anonymous. As anyone on here will tell you, I don’t take kindly to fucktards such as yourself using racial slurs to get your pathetic point (is there one?) across.

Do you even know what a redneck is? Having lived in the US, near the Mason-Dixon line (look it up), I’ve seen my fair share of them.

They don’t use addiction as a term of endearment for those of the non-white persuasion. Perhaps you need to take some time before posting, to realise how much of a dumbass you are making of yourself by posting without a clue.

Obviously a slow learner…


Do … you … have … any … evidence?

Do you know what evidence is?

Coconuts are often rednecks.

WW, well you finally answered. I guess you were too busy spouting your incoherent dribble to notice before.

If she is charged with manslaughter, what else do you think her lawyer will use to “get her off”?

Redneck? Funny, my brown skin doesn’t seem to have any red around the neck. Perhaps you should think before you post.

After all, you’ve spent the past two days making bullshit comments towards people on here about whom you know nothing. Attacking people with inane dribble lacking in sentence structure and indicating you have no grasp of the basics of grammar.

Now go play with your Tonka toys and let the big kids have a decent conversation.

JB, sorry, had to address the redneck thing. He/She’s an ignorant….


Do you have any evidence?

What drug dealer?

Did you know you were online when you keyed in such redneck mythology?

Wait, I knew I had a follow up q…
how often are new computer systems implemented?

Thanks TAD, I think.

Felix the Cat9:43 pm 15 Nov 06

The problem with police chases is that the cops may be trained and experienced in driving in this manner but the crook probably isn’t (and is likely to be drunk or stoned which impairs what little ability they had in the first place) and neither are most members of the general public. So the crook’s ambition outweighs their ability and they end up crashing into an innocent bystander, ending in tradgedy. Couldn’t the cops of radioed to other members to watch out for brown Magna rego XYZ123 and tell them to approach with caution etc etc instead of giving chase in a busy built up area. Ditto for Clea Rose cops.

Giving chase because someone wasn’t wearing a seat belt seems way over the top to me, especially when the end result was death of an innocent person.

Not blaming the cops, just saying they contributed to the end result. Sure the Magna woman should of just pulled over and copped the $80 fine on the chin, quite possibly she had other reasons to run such as outstanding warrants, defective car or maybe possesion of prohibited substance, but at this stage none of these “reasons” have been bought to light so as far as we know the cop only had a suspicion or hunch (no proof) that there was more to this than meets the eye. No reason to start a chase through suburbia.

She was probably racing to her drug dealer.

Just you wait, there will be a “I had a bad childhood and take drugs” cry from her defence.

I back the cops 100%!

Sadly, an innocent person through no fault of their own has lost their life, this can never be reversed.

The solution for the lunatic shitbag in the brown Magna was quite simple. Mr Policeman activates his lights and sirens, you safely pull over to the side of the road, and if you deserve it, take whatever is coming to you!

I would hazard a guess and say unmarked cars generally dont activate lights and sirens unless there is a bloody good reason!

What the bloody hell was this little trollop running from?

All this brou-haha and JB asking whether the procedures are effective etc.
As the full details have not been released everything is pretty much conjecture. Personally I want cops who will pursue crims.

Tho I am sorta surprised about a police car in the ACT actually bothering to pull over someone for a traffic offence other than speeding or boozing.
At least 30% of all ACT drivers need to be involved in single car fatal accidents, preferably in the next 2 weeks or so.

Police records are not routinely destroyed but when a new computer system is implemented a lot isn’t migrated over, kept on paper and then eventually destroyed.

As record keeping gets cheaper through digital storage it will probably be kept long after those involved are dead.

Thanks for tyeh clarification TAD – I only knew about spent convictions because I applied for a job at CRIMTRAC – needless to say I did not get it.

From the advertising box ‘Buy Raw Police Chases DVD On Trading Post, 1000s of DVDs Online!’


Nice meeting you.

You are now dumped.

Thanks TAD, so that applies to general police records too?

Spent convictions only apply to crim history checks for employment.

The records are never destroyed.

if the recidivist offenders were dragged from their stolen cars and given a thrashing, i bet they would think twice about doing it again.

i think that would stop some of the more junior crims from delving further into their lifestyle choice.

of course the fact that they continue to amble through life alternating from dole queue to prison, moaning about how ‘da pigs’ is out to get them etc while contributing nada to society except statistics to be used by pratt pretty much speaks volumes.

in every society theres a scale from left to right which ranges from absolute scum to harmless old ladies with not even a parking ticket.

you and i pay the police to ahem police this range of people. make sure they comply with the rules society has chosen to ensure society continues.

i think back to the film ‘last man standing’ when the grizzled old cop says he understands that theres a certain amount of criminal activity and he cant stop it because thats just the way it is, and thats pretty much correct.

does this mean we look the other way and crack down on police who enforce our laws ?

what kind of fucked up world do you want ?

i speed everywhere, all the time – but i cop my lumps when im caught. if i ever get the opportunity, i’ll change the laws. but when i see a siren – pull over. sometimes i can talk my way out of it, sometimes i cop a ticket.

the police see all the filthy aspects of our lives we never want to know about, from scraping kids off the road to woman who bash their husbands.

do you want a society where its every man for himself ? i think not.

ok thanks Danman :), but would there still be a record of said conviction, even though it’s disregarded?
I kinda also meant general police records, not so much ‘criminal’ records.
Sure, I could do my own research, but I thought I’d take a shot here first.

jey – from privacy.gov.au

The Commonwealth Spent Convictions Scheme came into force on 30 June 1990 under Part VIIC of the Crimes Act 1914 (Cth). The scheme allows a person to disregard some old criminal convictions after ten years (or five years in the case of juvenile offenders) and provides protection against unauthorised use and disclosure of this information. It covers convictions for minor federal, state and foreign offences, with the protections available varying according to which type of offence (federal, state or foreign) gave rise to the conviction. The scheme also covers pardons and quashed convictions.

There are some exclusions (PDF, WORD) from the scheme, but they are very limited. The Privacy Commissioner may also advise the Minister about whether requests for complete or partial exclusions from the application of the scheme should be granted.

Not too sure if thats what you were asking but i gave it a shot 🙂

maybe he wasn’t listening to the radio?

I forgot to add.

Whilst driving home yesterday at 5pmish, where Athlon Dr meets Reed St (lights at back of Hyperdome), a P-plater ran a red light – deliberately as he had ample time to stop for the amber light.

The incident at Woden was all over the radio by then and still this fucktard did it.

“I only believe in Riotact members kissing and making off if both men are hot…”

here here!

Does anyone know how long police records are kept?

In the Clea Rose case, it obviously failed (stealing cars) to deter.

The boy who was driving the car has family who still do it. I know this as the daughter of a family friend was participating in said crime along with his sister. They all thought it was a joke.

And this is AFTER Clea Rose was killed.

You want to do a crime? At least have the guts to take it when the cops turn up. Don’t run off like a coward.

y’know I am going to eat my tie.

I agree with bonfire…. Nuff said

Absent Diane2:22 pm 15 Nov 06

so what you guys are saying is that it is ok to have innocent bystanders killed in the pursuit of a someone who is more than likely a small time crim.

I hate to hear of these tragedies but I cannot bring myself to accept that any blames with the ladies

… geez what was I drinking??? … it should read

I hate to hear of these tragedies but I cannot bring myself to accept that any blame lies with the police

“It was not their intention to cause the event but Canberra has to ensure that this does not happen again.”

Canberra ? Who ? the mind hive ? Who do you mean ? or is this deliberate obfuscation an indicator of your feeble logic ?

“The changes must be to police procedures, so by implication, some blame lands here.”

This sentence is two sentences that barely connect. Why change procedures with a demonstrated effective outcome ? So on two rare instances people fleeing police have caused fatalities – this does not make the police responsible, or the procedures suspect.

How does blame therefore land here ? whatever here is. is here ‘the police’ ? once again id say you are wrong.

analysis based on media reports is not a good basis for public policy pronouncements.

Why must there be a change to police procedures?

bonfire has stated quite correctly that there have been only two chases in the last 2 years which have resulted in innocent deaths – and in both cases those deaths were caused by the perpretrator. If the police had actually caused the deaths we would have a serious problem, but all they did was their job – the criminals didn’t have to attempt to evade attention.

Now many here are advocating a knock-on-the-door policy … how would that have worked for the little bogan who killed Clea Rose – the car was stolen. AND I might admit, while he was on a good behaviour bond for a previous matter involving a stolen car.

There have now been two innocent families whose lives have been damaged, possibly irreparably (as I thought I had heard that the Roses’s had subsequently separated) but the perpretrators get their good behaviour bonds and what have you. Let’s lay the blame were it belongs – first and foremost with the criminals and then with the judicial system for being so lenient.

I hate to hear of these tragedies but I cannot bring myself to accept that any blames with the ladies.

Wagga: Congratulations on making my list. You are fuckwit.

I think the police (as an organisation) will have to share the blame, but I sympathise for the actual cops involved.

It was not their intention to cause the event but Canberra has to ensure that this does not happen again.

The changes must be to police procedures, so by implication, some blame lands here.

Sorry – no kisses for rednecks.

Don’t try an understand them
Just rope and tag and brand them 🙂

Like I said in an earlier post – No one is going to sensationalise the police work when they go about their mundane jobs competently.

Its not about where to focus the blame – its about coming to a resolute decision and changing policy to reflect that.

At the end of the day there are still going to be undesrables trying to evade responsibility of their actions.

Feel sorry for the coppers – they have to sleep with this and all the “what if’s”.

Absent Diane12:57 pm 15 Nov 06

Its not about not aprehending them… everyone wants to see genuinely bad people apprehended.. but they can be more concious and intellegent about it.

unfortunately peopel die every day from a whole range of things.

if two peopel die in two years as a result of thsi policy then i dont think it can be considered a failure.

how many people die in accidents from joyriding in stolen cars ?

i know its not a pleasant number to focus on, but its a cold reality.

the policy seems sensible to me. id be less pleased if i knew police were directed to not apprehend criminals.

Nice Thumper!


They are questioning the benefits of the policy.

The current process doesn’t seem to be stopping cars getting stolen very well, but it is killing innocent people in accidents.

id argue that the police need to chase more lawbreakers and have louder sirens.

one of the problems is that modern cars are noise proofed and idiots listening to doof doof music cannot hear the sirens.

i have seen ambos and firies operate their sirens and have to wait at intersections for idiots who do not respect the emergency, or maybe they just cant hear the siren.

in both this instance and the rose instance, the actual collision was caused by people who chose to try and evade the police.

there are probably dozens of examples every day where the police operate their siren, the suspect pulls over, recieves a talking to or a fine and goes on their way.

softheads who blame the police for the recent collision have an agenda which really carrys no moral authority to support it.

Sorry – no kisses for rednecks.

I fully support johnboy’s ‘knock on the door’ approach (raised by earlier comments).

This will not work with stolen cars, but the community may well want to put up this problem.

the rule of law seems to survive in jurisdictions where they don’t have high speed pursuits.

The benefit, JB, is that the rule of law is seen to be applied (at least in the short term – once they get into the court system, that seems to fall out the window, but that’s hardly the police’s fault).

Without the rule of law, things go pear-shaped very quickly…

To quote me directly from here

“i think (as do a lot of the barbie generation of females) that I am as ugly as a hat full of arseholes. I dont care……”

Sorry Simto – my part of the deal is a dud – I am def not hot.

I’m still waiting for someone to suggest the benefit that these chases bring to outweigh the lethal costs.

The abuse, however, suggests that the advocates have nothing.

People driving by RBT’s can get a knock on the door.

Yes blame the damn police!!! >:\ The whole force has this god-like attitude that is clearly being carried through in their actions. They need to be disciplined to recognise they can’t just do whatever they damn well feel like. A high-speed (80-140km/hr) chase through a busy town centre is just bloody irresponsible.

It’s also very obvious they are trying to cover it up.

I only believe in Riotact members kissing and making off if both men are hot…

Wagga wagga – neck up ya blowfly – If you believe that you’ll believe anything

Lets kiss and make up.


I am sorry you are inbred, but it is very good that you have 8 fingers and two thumbs – and on different hands. Yes I know you are not smart but thats OK.

I am glad you are able to drive a tractor.

It is a good idea of yours to change your name to Charnwood.

Was the driver worthy of this – possibly they could have been a dangerous person?

I’d say she turned out to be rather ‘dangerous’, yes.

There is no reason why the cops should not come clean on this now – any continuing silence suggests cop-guilt.

You fucking arseclown. There’s a damn good reason the cops can’t comment on this.

What’s all the nonesense about a stolen car.

What stolen car?

Canberra Times said cops pulled out their guns?

Was the driver worthy of this – possibly they could have been a dangerous person?

There is no reason why the cops should not come clean on this now – any continuing silence suggests cop-guilt.

“cops are humans to”
well when my mate “the Android” joined the plod all us mates new he had found his true vocation.
He is not referred to as Android for nothing.

Woody Mann-Caruso11:49 am 15 Nov 06

All you armchair critics who are sitting at your desks saving the world on this forum have got no idea.

Until we or somebody we love gets hammered by somebody fleeing a police pursuit because somebody stole a clapped out Commodore worth about $150, presumably.

Woody Mann-Caruso11:48 am 15 Nov 06

what is to stop people driving right past RBT’s

Cameras. And for those talking about burned out cars – we have a policy that allows police pursuit now, and it didn’t save those cars, so what’s your point exactly?

If cops start not pursuing cars, then what is to stop people driving right past RBT’s if they have had one too many? All it would do is let people know that they can get away with misdemeanours and not worry about being pulled up for it.

Absent Diane11:04 am 15 Nov 06

no one has said it is all cops fault. They did what they are supposed to do in these situations. All people are saying is perhaps what they are supposed to do in these situations needs to be evaluated and made safer community.

“The chief executive officer of the Australian Federal Police Association (AFP), Jim Torr, has welcomed investigations.

“Let’s not let the headline be, ‘Blame the police’. Let’s look at who actually did this, what actually caused it,” he said.

The AFP is urging people to await the outcome of the investigation before passing judgment.

Mr Torr says it would be premature to lay the blame with the police officers involved.

“Let’s not shoot from the hip, or jump to conclusions, or go for whatever the sensational headline is… in the immediate aftermath of this sad event,” he said”

I believe another stolen car burnt in Jerra last night. The second one this week but then the cops shouldn’t chase them.

Six cars stolen and torched 2 weekends ago, too. Yep, just let ’em go.

Let’s just blame the police for everything. Damn you police, damn you all to hell for doing your job.


Who said the chase was high speed? Who said the car was stolen? From all accounts it was to be a routine traffic stop, the speed limit is 60km/h in the area and all vehicles were going less than that.

Yes it is tragic, but changing the policies and laws because their are idiots out there with no regard for the law is ridiculous. At the end of the day common sense prevails, no cop in their right mind would engage in a pursuit if they knew there was going to be an ugly ending. All you armchair critics who are sitting at your desks saving the world on this forum have got no idea. Your day finishes when you go home to your wife/kids/hand, those involved get to go home and realise someone died today, and pain over their completely correct decision to attempt to pull a vehicle over for breaking a law, and recount the events time and time again, ending at the Coroners Court.

Cops are humans too believce it or not.

Woody Mann-Caruso10:19 am 15 Nov 06

If the only crime is stealing a car, then it’s not worth a pursuit. Your WRX (or worse, your clapped out VN) is not worth anybody’s life. The car will end up totalled anyway. Get insurance, people.

Absent Diane10:09 am 15 Nov 06

common sense in built up areas – i think is the only logical answer. I don’t think high speed chases should be banned.. because there are going to be times when they are needed.

JB – Stating and accusing are 2 different things.

What do u suggest the cops do – All i know is that their hands are tied either way.

Try and see it from their view – they can not give chase and then be blames when the assailant kills someone and they can chase and theb be blamed when the assailant kills someone.

Either way thet get egg on their faces.

What does everyone suggest (as a plausable remedy).

No way in hell cops get paid enough for this shit.

Knowing plenty of police secondees through my work – I can sure as hell say that I am glad that I work in a totally different field of Law Enforcement.

Absent Diane9:55 am 15 Nov 06

but it defeats the purpose of the chase if it is risking other peoples lives. its kind of hypocritical put the community in danger by trying to protect them… doesn’t make much sense sorry.

Perhaps the cops could chase a bit more aggressively to complete the pursuit more quickly. As far as I’m concerned if you
a) commit a crime, such as car theft, and
b) resist arrest
then you forfeit your rights to safety while being chased down.

As to whether police car chases actually cause death – who really knows? If the mole driving the car was allowed to go, I doubt she’d suddenly say “well gosh, I’d better slow down now”. The old lady could well have died anyway.

The problem with speculation is that, well, it’s speculation! But preventing the police from doing their jobs? I don’t like that at all.

Absent Diane9:45 am 15 Nov 06

TAD trying arguing with logic as opposed to emotion.

Why don’t we just get rid of the police sirens and lights so they they can’t pursue criminals in cars and take away police boots so they can’t chase someone on foot (just in case they run onto a road and get cleaned up by a bus).

Better still why don’t we just get rid of police and just report crime to an Indian call centre. We’ll all feel much safer then.

Odd that the people asking questions are being accused of having all the answers.

Here’s another one, how many lives are saved by the current pursuit policy?

Wagga wagga – you have all the answers – go out and be a copper – you seem to know it all.

Your the end all of canberra policing problems.

And ill have you know that I even though I may be inbred, I still have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs – and thats not on one hand too !!! – and though I may not be that smart – I sure know how to drive a tractor……….

I believe another stolen car burnt in Jerra last night. The second one this week but then the cops shouldn’t chase them.

Absent Diane9:28 am 15 Nov 06

people who live outside the law generally panic. surely the cops can outsmart these people instead of trying to be heroes all the time.

Good Danman, its good to see rednecks from Charwood can type.

Its good that you have an expendable Granny.

When did you get your experience in Goulburn?

This may be a bit too complex for you, but the blame has to be shared between system and people.

The death, damage to property and ongoing grief to family, plus cost to the community are not worth the gain from police chasing misdemeanours.

The stupid bitch who caused the accident must’ve been on something. How the hell did she expect to get away the police in a late 80’s Magna, FFS?

Absent Diane9:11 am 15 Nov 06


hey everybody, i don’t agree with you… you’d better slam me with insults and profanities!!… QUICK!!

wagga_wagga sounds like the kind of soft lefty who thinks that if we give thses bogans a hot meal and a hug and ask them to promise to be good everything will be OK.

In your “assessment for the scenarios” above you forgot to mention the precursor to the events – i.e. perpetrators break law!

We have police because there are people who cannot be trusted to obey the law – when they break the law we expect them (the police) to act.

I agree that there is a need to review the pursuit guidelines – but only to ensure that the police have sufficient protocols in place to protect themselves and the general public. Let’s not blame the police because the courts (and lawyers) derail the course of true justice. Most will recall that Clea Rose’s father offered ‘an olive branch’ to the little bogan who killed his daughter (and he did it, wagga-wagga – not the police!) because he knew the ACT courts would be weak on the kid.

Yes it’s a tragedy and there have to be lessons learnt from it – but if this woman (the killer) had not broken the law, then the situation would simply not have occurred.

Perhaps the headlines in the CT should have read “Another criminal causes traffic fatality” – but then again that’s not really sensational enough is it?

Maybe we can all have wedlok style GPS units on our necks – sure would slow you down knowing your head could just “pop” off at any second.

Absent Diane8:25 am 15 Nov 06

I think because there is so much at stake the whole situation needs to be assesed. I don’t think cops can continue the high speed chase path… but they obviously need to have something to counter the crims.

So what do u suggest Wagga wagga wagga ?
Who the fuck are you anyway Fozzy Bear ?

Im going to change my name to Charnwood – yeah – they punters will love me then

Let the cops sit idly while dickhead bogans rampage on the street killing innocents.

Whose fault is it then ? The cops or the system?

Sure this is a tragedy – and so was the interchange incident – but what if the cops just did not give a fuck and let people drive like dickheads.

Cops have it difficult – they are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

If it was my Grandmother who died – I would not have a cross to bear – sure – tragic and all – but it would not be the cops fault – it would be the little fucktards who ran into her.

One can only hope they think of her while “Bubba” has his way with them in Goulburn Jail.

get out in the real world and see thing for how they are – not how you want them to look.

Good job to the cops – trying to keep our territory safe from people like these car driving galahs – oh and people like our friend fozzy bear.


te he
I like it

Blaming the police for crime, or the consequences of crime is about as rational as blaming the drought on the weather forecaster on the telly.

Next you’ll be blaming the govt for not employing seat belt attendants who wait around in carparks and do up your seat belt for you, or even better yet, blame ‘the system’. Purely infantile. Everyone is responsible for their actions, whether they believe it or not.

So sorry ol Tool

But you are being idiotic – just think.

The evidence for the scenarios are precisely;

cops chased kids in Civic park that smashed into a group of revellers crossing Mort St killing one

cops chased someone (apparently sans seat belt) near Woden and they killed a old lady.

I don’t think the family of either deceased would welcome your statement that the scenarios that killed their kin were somehow idiotic.

The face at the bottom of the well is your own.

Wagga_Wagga lovely town, why don’t you go back there? It is people like yourself that are always looking to blame the system, not those that create the problem.

Your ‘what if’ scenarios are little more than idiotic.

We should be putting the blame on the dickhead at fault, like nyssa says. The cops were doing their job, and accidents like this can happen in an urban area or elsewhere. I hope the blame and the guilt all falls on the criminal responsible. At the same time though, maybe the cops should let a few slip through their fingers if it’s a busy morning in an urban area.

I agree that wankers stealing cars is the root of the problem.

But as the current policy doesn’t seem to be remediating this problem we again come back to asking what is the upside of these pursuits.

I do, but seeing as this is a family site, I can’t use it…


It seems he may be a she. Dont know the term for a female dickhead.

How about people actually do the right thing in the first place?

It’s not like it’s hard to know the difference between what is right and wrong and what is acceptable and unacceptable to society.

People who run away are gutless. They’re all “brave” to do the crime, but they don’t have the guts to own up to it.

Do you think the idiot who was being chased by the cops thought about the consequences of his actions when he started the chase? No. He didn’t give a shit about anyone but himself.

Who’s to blame? The dickhead who started this whole mess.

Good grief.

Sorry I mentioned Matrix

This ain’t going to be over until the fat coroner sings….

However unless Canberra forces the cops to act responsibly, more citizens will die, as cops chase misdemeanours.

Are we going to hear of cops chasing an unregistered car that runs into a school bus stop killing 6.

How about cops case youths yelling abuse at Liberals, who then skid out of control and kill a cyclist.

Maybe cops can chase a driver for running a red light and then they misjudge a corner and wipe out a deaf citizen on a pedestrian crossing.

Maybe cops can chase a graffiti artist who then accelerates out of a carpark and smashes into a group of revellers crossing the road.

You simply cannot put all the blame on one party. we do not live in a police state, and it is up to the community to accept more escaping misdemeanors if this means less cop-caused deaths.

May I express my condolences to the family of the late lady driver.

Would it be possible, given a larger market, to make tracking/GPS devices available for a price of about $100 or so. Compulsory fitment, like smoke alarms, paid for by a $30 discount on rego over 3 years. The majority of this loss of Govt revenue would be recovered from insurance companies, the balance from savings in Police time/paperwork. Normally switched off, but in listening mode, in Canberra, the system could be run by the same hypothetical company that monitors the CCTV cameras. Suspicious car park activity could result in the devices being remotely switched on by the operator, based on the rego number. Other thefts could be reported and again the device remotely activated, allowing the law to act at their leisure.

Maybe a bit out of Matrix but this would certainly reduce the requirement for and incidence of police pursuit.

I won;t be making any further comment on it other than to suggest that wild assumptions generally aren’t close to fact

I’d be waiting to see/hear a few more facts abou the matter before making an analysis of what happened.

I’d also love to see what the media defines as a ‘pursuit’ as well. There are official definitions, and what the media uses to ‘sell’ a story. I know which one is correct.

I know nothing much about it, as I have been interstate, but I can read between the lines

Unfortunately the people who can make a change are too interested in their own careers to really give a shit about something like this. Senior police are on contract like everyone else and self preservation is the foremost priority. As for the esteemed ACT Government, they are too busy appeasing every minority group in the world and introducing bs like the Human Rights Act to care about real issues that result in real people dying!

Why can’t these bogans take themselves out of the gene pool instead of other people, and not involve the police at all?

Deciding not to run from the police does not equate to a dead citizen. Interesting logic you have. Completely crap, but interesting.

no-one here is holding the police responsible, the question is about the procedure and whether it needs looking at.


“Police chases can only be justified where the benefits outweigh the costs and obvious risks.”

Maybe we should put all the police through a course in becoming psychics. How many traffic stops are routinely done throughout a day? I would suggest in the hundreds, and any one of them could result in an incident just like today. It is unfortunate what happened, but hey don’t blame the police, they are doing there job, and they do it well. It is the fuckers that continually disregard the law and authority that should be tried and held accountable, not the poor bastards trying to uphold it!!!!!1

AD, how can I argue anything when what ww states is a load of shite lacking in sentence structure?

Lest we forget.

’twas the Liberals who killed Katy Bender.

In the present case – we have acres of lawyers and mountains of journos who can tell us what is right and what is wrong (or try).

Police chases can only be justified where the benefits outweigh the costs and obvious risks.

A missing seatbelt or a stolen car, or a rude gesture, or what ever does not equal a dead citizen.

No way.

… except it was the ABC, not the Times.

there’s journalistic integrity in that article that i’d expect of the Canberra Times:
“second death in 15 months” then a few lines down “second death in 12 months’

blingblingbears4:45 pm 14 Nov 06

this is very sad, i hope the driver responsible gets punnished properly for this

Too simple Woody – your idea goes out of the window when the car the fuckwits are driving is stolen but I fully support the manslaughter charge.

that doesn’t work so good for stolen cars.

Woody Mann-Caruso4:33 pm 14 Nov 06

If the police can see their plates and get a good idea of the make and model of the car, then there’s no point pursuing them. Pop round later when they’re standing in the front yard drinking VB longnecks, tow their cars, lock the little fuckers up and throw away the key. No point endangering police or bystanders to bring these losers down. My sympathies are with the lady’s family and with the officers involved. I hope the fuckers driving get manslaughter.

Wagga wagga, are you one of DJ’s family members?

Yep, the Police should not try to apprehend anyone for breaking any laws because it might end up in the death of someone.

I blame the Police for everything that has ever happened in the world.


if you saw the accident are you able to give us any indication of how far behind the pursuing police vehicle was at the time it occured (in your opinion)?

i’m curious to know how vigourous this ‘pursuit’ actually was.

The point isn’t “are the police to blame” clearly those to blame are those who chose to drive illegally and actually struck the other car.

Nor am I suggesting that every police pursuit ends in a fatality, obviously the overwhelming majority do not.

But if at the end of a non fatal pursuit the only result is going to be a largely ignored good behaviour bond then we do have to ask if the current pursuit policy needs reviewing.

Now if the courts were to get tough with car theft and treat it as a serious crime then it might well be worth the risk, but i see little chance of that.

Maybe they could switch their sirens for the Funeral March?

Seems more appropriate.

v_man_returns3:57 pm 14 Nov 06

wagga wagga has a point, despite the fact his sentences are rarely finished – this is the internet though. It’s a shame that lady died, the police were chasing sure, but the person being chased is the one who hit the person, just like the Clea Rose case. It’s not not the cops hitting people.

I saw the outcome of accident. The speeding car went through a red light and cleaned her up. A hit like that and seatbelt won’t help.

Anyone losing their life to a criminal act is especially horrible. I hope that the people involved are brought to justice…

Absent Diane3:48 pm 14 Nov 06

nyssa – your argument is hardly an argument either.

Not wearing seat belt = one dead old lady.

That’s horseshit.

Somebody running from the cops dangerously is what killed her.


Your argument (or lack thereof) looks shite because you can’t string a sentence along.

Oh I get it,

Not wearing seat belt = one dead old lady.

“What a wonderful world ……”

Thumper – stop crying……..

Pretty tough to blame the police for this.
Rumour says that they put on the siren for not wearing a seatbelt. Punter drove off fast, this is the result. Not really the police’s fault!

And what does the Liberal party Policy say

“We need more police”

Go figure………..

Simto – I guess you have apoint – the press dont care about car chases where nothing out of the normal happens.

Maybe some techo at CSIRO can work on a car mounted directional EMP gun.

Would be interesting

I think you’re indulging in analysis through reportage rather than analysis through actual stats here – there’s usually about two or three fatal high-speed chases reported on during a year.

I’d expect there’s way more police high-speed chases than that (plucking utterly from the top of my head, I’d guess there’s around half a dozen a week).

Assuming that’s the case (and please, anybody is entitled to correct me on this one), then the fatal high speed chases are less than 1% of all chases.

Yes, any death is a bad death and should be reported and investigated. But I don’t know whether such a tiny percentage of adverse consequences are enough to condemn the practice.

Engine immobilisers and compulsory death to all wankers who try to run from the Police. 🙂

So what do people suggest the police do about this ?

if the police did not make chase – then the public would be up in arms about that as well.

As far as I can see they are in a lose lose situation.

Maybe they need to review their protocols for high speed pursuit in an urban area.

I dont know – If I had the answer I would not be working where I am now.

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