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Braidwood monster smash

By johnboy 10 March 2012 120

The ABC has the news of a major accident yesterday on the Kings Highway:

A man and his two young daughters have been killed in a car accident near Canberra during heavy rain.

Police say the 52-year-old man and his eight and 10-year-old daughters died when their car collided with another car on the Kings Highway near Braidwood on Friday afternoon.

A 43-year-old man, a 39-year-old woman and two girls aged 11 and 13 in the other car were all taken to Canberra Hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

What’s Your opinion?


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Braidwood monster smash
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HenryBG 12:32 pm 17 Mar 12

Sturmovik said :

I think the ACT should bare some resposibility for the upgrade of various NSW roads, but on the other hand NSW gets quite a bit of benefit from Canberrans spending money at the Coast and the Snow during the holidays.

There should be a 3-way split for funding a proper freeway to the coast:
Federal/NSW/ACT in equal shares.
Would be a massive project, and would open up employment opportunities for – just as an example – unemployed people with 5 kids who currently have to survive on “just $20,000” per year.

HenryBG 12:28 pm 17 Mar 12

Watson said :

I drive the speed limit because I think it is the safe thing to do.

Well, I don’t object to your post, but this bit is wrong – you’re probably aware that the current 80 v. 90 speed limit issue on the GDE has nothing to do with safety and is apparently something to do with noise?
There is no way any posted speed limit can bear more than a very remote relationship to the safe speed for that road at a particular time of day in particular weather in a particular car driven by a particular driver.

Watson 10:51 am 17 Mar 12

HenryBG said :

KB1971 said :

Maybe but I dont agree when the car in front is travelling at the posted limit. All speedometer accuracy aside, if someone is following me at 100, they should be happy that I am not holding them up.

The reality is that the person who “is travelling at 100km/h” is positively terrified of bends and crests, and slows down to 80km/h for each one. This is the reason the traffic banks up behind them, and this is the reason a considerate road user does what they can within reason to help those travelling faster than them to get past them.

Personally, my car is not much good on gravel roads. If I see somebody in a car that can comfortably do a good speed on a gravel road catching up with me, I will even pull right over early to let my dust settle so they can get past quickly. It’s commonsense and its being considerate.

Back to the idiot with traffic banking up behind him – when he gets to a nice straight stretch of the road,, what does he do? He speeds up to 100km/h in order to prevent the people who have been patiently waiting behind him from getting past. This causes anger, frustration, excessive speed and unsafe overtaking maneuvers.

If somebody is right behind you – it means they are travelling faster than you. Only a complete arsehole fails to recognise the commonsense in letting them past. The same kind of arsehole who objects to motorcycles lane-filtering.

And I find it rather disturbing that there are so many people out there who assume that someone only sticks to the speed limit because they are scared of going any faster. That just confirms my suspicion that drivers who have a compulsive need to speed do so because they want to show off. And most likely feel insecure about their masculinity.

I went through a stage of speeding on my way to the coast. It’s the only place where you can do it without getting caught really, so I thought “Why not, it’s a long drive and I want to be there already”. Until I calculated how much time I actually saved doing that and my brain finally woke up and told me that those 20 minutes are really not worth risking my or anyone else’s life for. Ever since then I am the annoying person who sticks to the speed limit regardless of how many cars are behind me or how many bird brain drivers want to make wild assumptions about my driving skills.

Watson 10:42 am 17 Mar 12

HenryBG said :

KB1971 said :

Maybe but I dont agree when the car in front is travelling at the posted limit. All speedometer accuracy aside, if someone is following me at 100, they should be happy that I am not holding them up.

The reality is that the person who “is travelling at 100km/h” is positively terrified of bends and crests, and slows down to 80km/h for each one. This is the reason the traffic banks up behind them, and this is the reason a considerate road user does what they can within reason to help those travelling faster than them to get past them.

Personally, my car is not much good on gravel roads. If I see somebody in a car that can comfortably do a good speed on a gravel road catching up with me, I will even pull right over early to let my dust settle so they can get past quickly. It’s commonsense and its being considerate.

Back to the idiot with traffic banking up behind him – when he gets to a nice straight stretch of the road,, what does he do? He speeds up to 100km/h in order to prevent the people who have been patiently waiting behind him from getting past. This causes anger, frustration, excessive speed and unsafe overtaking maneuvers.

If somebody is right behind you – it means they are travelling faster than you. Only a complete arsehole fails to recognise the commonsense in letting them past. The same kind of arsehole who objects to motorcycles lane-filtering.

What a stupid generalisation. I drive the speed limit because I think it is the safe thing to do. I do not slow down for bends unless there is a need to. I usually go about 15kph over the limit on the yellow signs going through bends as that is what my car is usually capable of. (Unless it’s Brown Mountain, but I pull over immediately to let people overtake there)

I too get frustrated when people don’t do a constant speed. And they are the only times I will sometimes go over the speed limit – to overtake them on a straight stretch. Myself, I slow down if I see an opportunity for the car behind me to overtake. It’s amazing how often they chicken out though, which also annoys me. They feel confident enough to drive over the speed limit and tailgate, but don’t know how to overtake even if the car in front of them slows down to make it easier for them.

Tooks 8:22 am 17 Mar 12

HenryBG said :

KB1971 said :

Maybe but I dont agree when the car in front is travelling at the posted limit. All speedometer accuracy aside, if someone is following me at 100, they should be happy that I am not holding them up.

The reality is that the person who “is travelling at 100km/h” is positively terrified of bends and crests, and slows down to 80km/h for each one. This is the reason the traffic banks up behind them, and this is the reason a considerate road user does what they can within reason to help those travelling faster than them to get past them.

Personally, my car is not much good on gravel roads. If I see somebody in a car that can comfortably do a good speed on a gravel road catching up with me, I will even pull right over early to let my dust settle so they can get past quickly. It’s commonsense and its being considerate.

Back to the idiot with traffic banking up behind him – when he gets to a nice straight stretch of the road,, what does he do? He speeds up to 100km/h in order to prevent the people who have been patiently waiting behind him from getting past. This causes anger, frustration, excessive speed and unsafe overtaking maneuvers.

If somebody is right behind you – it means they are travelling faster than you. Only a complete arsehole fails to recognise the commonsense in letting them past. The same kind of arsehole who objects to motorcycles lane-filtering.

Disturbingly, I’ve been finding myself agreeing with you quite a lot lately.

KB1971 6:37 am 17 Mar 12

HenryBG said :

KB1971 said :

Maybe but I dont agree when the car in front is travelling at the posted limit. All speedometer accuracy aside, if someone is following me at 100, they should be happy that I am not holding them up.

The reality is that the person who “is travelling at 100km/h” is positively terrified of bends and crests, and slows down to 80km/h for each one. This is the reason the traffic banks up behind them, and this is the reason a considerate road user does what they can within reason to help those travelling faster than them to get past them.

Personally, my car is not much good on gravel roads. If I see somebody in a car that can comfortably do a good speed on a gravel road catching up with me, I will even pull right over early to let my dust settle so they can get past quickly. It’s commonsense and its being considerate.

Back to the idiot with traffic banking up behind him – when he gets to a nice straight stretch of the road,, what does he do? He speeds up to 100km/h in order to prevent the people who have been patiently waiting behind him from getting past. This causes anger, frustration, excessive speed and unsafe overtaking maneuvers.

If somebody is right behind you – it means they are travelling faster than you. Only a complete arsehole fails to recognise the commonsense in letting them past. The same kind of arsehole who objects to motorcycles lane-filtering.

Ahh yes but I am not one of those drivers, I grew up in the country driving country roads and I am very aware of how to handle a vehicle in the different conditions placed in front of me when driving.

I am really not sure what you are trying to say in your post Henry?

I certainly understand that the behavoir you describe and have experienced it but as I was discussing with Holden, it is up to me to pass safely if I am not happy with sitting behind them. While they might speed up on the straights there is usually a spot I can get past them at some stage (used to frustrate me no end in my old diesel Patrol).

What I usually find with this type of driver is they attract like minded drivers. That is other people will catch them & then sit behind them as they go fast/slow, fast/slow rather than keep a constant speed. The second, third, fourth & fiths dirivers then make it hard for someone sitting on a constant 100km/h & who wants to pass to actually pass. This is what I see causes the frustration. Sitting behind one car is easy, sitting behind a line of them for 30km & watching them not take the passing oppourtunities provided to avoid the lineup getting any longer. I see it time & time again & that is what I see as being the cause for the frustration, not the one car in front.

If I drop in on the back of a line like this I suss out the situation, if I can make my way to the front & then have a clear run I will do it. If it was like Monday where if I made it to the front & there is another line of cars in front, its not worth it as you just get caught again. Happens all the time on the Monaro Hwy in winter, you can see the cars for 5km in front, what is the piont in passing & what will a slower car in front pulling over acieve?

I have no problem with motorbikes filtering (ex rider myself) as long as they keep out of the bike lanes.

HenryBG 6:09 pm 16 Mar 12

KB1971 said :

Maybe but I dont agree when the car in front is travelling at the posted limit. All speedometer accuracy aside, if someone is following me at 100, they should be happy that I am not holding them up.

The reality is that the person who “is travelling at 100km/h” is positively terrified of bends and crests, and slows down to 80km/h for each one. This is the reason the traffic banks up behind them, and this is the reason a considerate road user does what they can within reason to help those travelling faster than them to get past them.

Personally, my car is not much good on gravel roads. If I see somebody in a car that can comfortably do a good speed on a gravel road catching up with me, I will even pull right over early to let my dust settle so they can get past quickly. It’s commonsense and its being considerate.

Back to the idiot with traffic banking up behind him – when he gets to a nice straight stretch of the road,, what does he do? He speeds up to 100km/h in order to prevent the people who have been patiently waiting behind him from getting past. This causes anger, frustration, excessive speed and unsafe overtaking maneuvers.

If somebody is right behind you – it means they are travelling faster than you. Only a complete arsehole fails to recognise the commonsense in letting them past. The same kind of arsehole who objects to motorcycles lane-filtering.

goggles13 6:05 pm 13 Mar 12

Thoroughly Smashed said :

goggles13 said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

goggles13 said :

elapsed time speed cameras would make the situation worse.

Source?

don’t need a source – just simple logic.

currently, people get frustrated due to the lack of overtaking opportunities and people travelling at, or under the speed limit.

by adding a point-to-point camera, it is more likely that people will travel under the speed limit to avoid getting caught speeding. therefore increasing frustration levels.

“It’s true because I believe it is” doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

Thanks for the laugh though. “Don’t need a source”. Hahaha!

no worries.

smeeagain 12:36 pm 13 Mar 12

farnarkler said :

There are more than enough overtaking lanes and long stretches on the Kings Hwy to give the speed demons loads of chances to overtake.

As for upgrading the Hwy, put point to point cameras in, one at Braidwood, the other at Nelligen. The NSW gov’t would make enough money to fund a fair amount of improvements.

This would only work if they put a new camera in at each speed change. They have 100, 90 and 70k limits along this stretch of road, so in theory, someone could travel above the speed limit for a vast majority of the road, but slightly under for the 100k part, and their average speed won’t show that they were speeding.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back 12:24 pm 13 Mar 12

Holden Caulfield said :

KB1971 said :

But really, it all comes down to attitude, the other person sees it has their right to not speed or sit under the limit, the next guy wants to do 3km over the limit which ensures he will catch other cars. He has to live with that & take the pill & pass safely. Its not the car in front’s fault that the guy behind is doing something different.

Isnt that what a free society is about? Choices?

Yep.

If there’s only a few cars behind I don’t reckon it’s a major issue, but when a queue of 7, 8 or more starts to build up then it’s probably time to start considering moving over.

You’re right, in a perfect world everyone would just be patient and enjoy the drive and overtake when they can. But…

I tend to agree. Many years ago I used to have an old wagon that wouldn’t cruise comfortably at more than about 95km/h, so I’d occasionally pull over (or slow right down in the overtaking lanes) to let others pass safely. If I was loaded and really taking it easy I might pull over 3 or 4 times during the trip.

If you’re doing the speed limit, then it’s obviously not a requirement to pull over and let others pass. But if you notice a queue of cars forming up behind you, sometimes it can be a good thing to do. It’s not a hard and fast principle, but something to make your own judgment call on.

Anything that reduces angst and stupidity on the road is a good thing. Sometimes we have to accept good instead of perfect.

KB1971 12:24 pm 13 Mar 12

Holden Caulfield said :

KB1971 said :

But really, it all comes down to attitude, the other person sees it has their right to not speed or sit under the limit, the next guy wants to do 3km over the limit which ensures he will catch other cars. He has to live with that & take the pill & pass safely. Its not the car in front’s fault that the guy behind is doing something different.

Isnt that what a free society is about? Choices?

Yep.

If there’s only a few cars behind I don’t reckon it’s a major issue, but when a queue of 7, 8 or more starts to build up then it’s probably time to start considering moving over.

You’re right, in a perfect world everyone would just be patient and enjoy the drive and overtake when they can. But…

Yah… I know.

Holden Caulfield 12:12 pm 13 Mar 12

KB1971 said :

But really, it all comes down to attitude, the other person sees it has their right to not speed or sit under the limit, the next guy wants to do 3km over the limit which ensures he will catch other cars. He has to live with that & take the pill & pass safely. Its not the car in front’s fault that the guy behind is doing something different.

Isnt that what a free society is about? Choices?

Yep.

If there’s only a few cars behind I don’t reckon it’s a major issue, but when a queue of 7, 8 or more starts to build up then it’s probably time to start considering moving over.

You’re right, in a perfect world everyone would just be patient and enjoy the drive and overtake when they can. But…

KB1971 11:58 am 13 Mar 12

Holden Caulfield said :

KB1971 said :

milkman said :

Watson said :

I drive bang on 100kph there and traffic banks up behind me. I tell them all to get effed (my poor rear view mirror always cops it) and don’t get tempted to speed up. I know people who feel really pressured to speed in those situations though. I think they should make sticking to the speed limit with 10 cars behind you unable to overtake and possibly tailgating you and/or each other part of the driving test.

So if traffic is banking up behind you, the most obvious question is why the hell don’t you pull off periodically and let them pass?

Because it should not be banking up at 100km/h *facepalm*……..

Yes, that is quite true. But it does.

And, yes, other motorists should show more patience.

However, the time to play vigilante is not when you have a queue of frustrated motorists behind you. And, from what Watson is saying, she is frustrated when there’s a queue behind her too, if she’s cursing them. In itself that is directing more of her attention to where she’s been and not on where she is going.

Take a minute to pull aside and everyone benefits.

Experience tells me the more people get frustrated and fed up the closer they are to doing something stupid. Whether that’s the person at the head of the queue or someone further back.

Maybe but I dont agree when the car in front is travelling at the posted limit. All speedometer accuracy aside, if someone is following me at 100, they should be happy that I am not holding them up. Under that, then yes common sense prevails & I have pulled aside when towing (I used to have a non turbo diesel Nissan Patrol 😛 ) & was a regular thing for me but if I could do 100 with the van on I would do it. If I pulled over every time there was a handfull of cars behind me I would never get anywhere.

But really, between 80 & 100, I would not expect anyone to pull over for me. It is up to me to pass safely if I want to travel faster than the car in front.

One thing a lot of people are fogetting is not all vehicles are created equal. Yep a SV6 Commodore sedan can cruise along comfortably at 100 on a 80km/h advised corner but then change that to the SV6 wagon with 5 people , the boot loaded to the hilt & a box trailer on & that changes things immensely. The same corner has the potential to send it into a tank slapper if it has a dip in it.

But really, it all comes down to attitude, the other person sees it has their right to not speed or sit under the limit, the next guy wants to do 3km over the limit which ensures he will catch other cars. He has to live with that & take the pill & pass safely. Its not the car in front’s fault that the guy behind is doing something different.

Isnt that what a free society is about? Choices?

Thoroughly Smashed 11:53 am 13 Mar 12

goggles13 said :

Thoroughly Smashed said :

goggles13 said :

elapsed time speed cameras would make the situation worse.

Source?

don’t need a source – just simple logic.

currently, people get frustrated due to the lack of overtaking opportunities and people travelling at, or under the speed limit.

by adding a point-to-point camera, it is more likely that people will travel under the speed limit to avoid getting caught speeding. therefore increasing frustration levels.

“It’s true because I believe it is” doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

Thanks for the laugh though. “Don’t need a source”. Hahaha!

Holden Caulfield 11:15 am 13 Mar 12

KB1971 said :

milkman said :

Watson said :

I drive bang on 100kph there and traffic banks up behind me. I tell them all to get effed (my poor rear view mirror always cops it) and don’t get tempted to speed up. I know people who feel really pressured to speed in those situations though. I think they should make sticking to the speed limit with 10 cars behind you unable to overtake and possibly tailgating you and/or each other part of the driving test.

So if traffic is banking up behind you, the most obvious question is why the hell don’t you pull off periodically and let them pass?

Because it should not be banking up at 100km/h *facepalm*……..

Yes, that is quite true. But it does.

And, yes, other motorists should show more patience.

However, the time to play vigilante is not when you have a queue of frustrated motorists behind you. And, from what Watson is saying, she is frustrated when there’s a queue behind her too, if she’s cursing them. In itself that is directing more of her attention to where she’s been and not on where she is going.

Take a minute to pull aside and everyone benefits.

Experience tells me the more people get frustrated and fed up the closer they are to doing something stupid. Whether that’s the person at the head of the queue or someone further back.

KB1971 11:07 am 13 Mar 12

milkman said :

TheDancingDjinn said :

milkman said :

Watson said :

I drive bang on 100kph there and traffic banks up behind me. I tell them all to get effed (my poor rear view mirror always cops it) and don’t get tempted to speed up. I know people who feel really pressured to speed in those situations though. I think they should make sticking to the speed limit with 10 cars behind you unable to overtake and possibly tailgating you and/or eachother part of the driving test.

So if traffic is banking up behind you, the most obvious question is why the hell don’t you pull off periodically and let them pass?

Why should he if he is travelling at the speed limit? – i would understand if it were someone moving way slower than the limit – but if your driving at 100, and the limit is 100 then those people behind you can grab a spoon and eat your ass 🙂

Because this is exactly the kind of attitude that causes frustration that results in people taking chances. How do you know the speedo is accurate? How do you know the speedos of the cars following are accurate.

Until we can get past this ridiculous idea that driving is some sort of competition, and that we are all the Lone Ranger Of The Road, road rage and frustration related accidents will continue.

Seriously, get some perspective, and show some common courtesy.

Um, did you read what you posted, you are spruiking common sense but are not displaying it.

Perspective is, the speed limit is 100km/h. So your speedo is accurate to 2km/h & the guy in front is 5km/h & you catch him. it is is your responsibility to keep your distance & pass safely (and patiently) if you really have to regardless of what is happening. The whole trip is less than 200km, if the car in front is doing 90, so be it, its not that slow (* facepalm to you too).

I drove down on Friday, cruised along at 100, when I caught another car I just waited until it was safe & then passed (moslty in overtaking lanes). Heading down the Clyde there was a truck, this was good as we were doing 30 & I could enjoy the veiw & the smells of the bush with the windows down. I had people up my butt even though I had 10 cars, a large caravan & a semi trailer in front & could do nothing about it. This all cleared out on the bottom with overtaking lanes.

Coming home we went through Araluen, enjoyed the beutiful drive, had a great counter meal at the pub (far cheaper than the baker at Braidwood that charges more on public holidays) & would have headed home though majors Creek & Captains Flat had we not broken a spring on my mates camper trailer. Throughly enjoyable drive home until we hit the Kings. People still had to pass even though when I crested a rise there were cars for the next 2km, absolutely no point in passing. Then we all banked up in Bungendore & then again in Queanbeyan. The just got there 30 second quicker.

I have seen it for years on the Monaro Hwy in the ski season, Sydneyites busting their nuts to pass everything in sight when they have dual carrageway less than 100km down the road. Madness.

dvaey 11:06 am 13 Mar 12

shadow boxer said :

People have been falling off the side of that road and ending up in paddocks for the past 40 years. It wont stop until it is a proper divided road with a tarred erge and adequate overtaking opportunities.

Either side of Braidwood appears the best place to start.

Either side of braidwood are actually two of the better parts of the coast drive. It always amazes me, the number of flowers and memorials left along the side of the straight road on the eastern side of the town. Maybe youre unaware, but the stretch between Queanbeyan and Bungendore has been either reconstructed or is under construction over the past few years.

If anyone thinks the Kings Highway is a bad road now, youre obviously too young or new to the region to remember what the road was like in the past.

Holden Caulfield 11:01 am 13 Mar 12

Chop71 said :

Barton highway is worse.

Huh?

I guess I can’t really comment on the Kings Hwy because I’ve only driven it a handful of times in my 20+ years of driving. However, I know the Barton very well as I used to drive it daily from Yass in the early 90s.

Then, there were no dramas with the road at all. Mostly, the surface was fine and the sight lines and general vision were quite good, save for a handful of corners. The trees have grown a lot in 15 years or so and some of the old sight lines have gone, but there are more overtaking lanes and the road surface is still very good.

There would be a lot more commuter traffic today than when I was using the road, but I still can’t see how anyone could describe it as a bad road.

KB1971 10:50 am 13 Mar 12

milkman said :

Watson said :

I drive bang on 100kph there and traffic banks up behind me. I tell them all to get effed (my poor rear view mirror always cops it) and don’t get tempted to speed up. I know people who feel really pressured to speed in those situations though. I think they should make sticking to the speed limit with 10 cars behind you unable to overtake and possibly tailgating you and/or eachother part of the driving test.

So if traffic is banking up behind you, the most obvious question is why the hell don’t you pull off periodically and let them pass?

Because it should not be banking up at 100km/h *facepalm*……..

Me no fry 10:49 am 13 Mar 12

dtc said :

I drove back from the coast today and spent a bit of time checking out whether and how the road was dangerous. (trying to get this thread back on track)

My views…

Well said, a shining beacon of common sense among the usual riotact garbage that gets trotted out for stories like these. We’ve even had, in this and other posts, people claiming they like the role trees play in “filtering” bad drivers – an unforgivably crude, smug and unthinking thing to say, under the circumstances. I’d like to see those people explain to the mother of those two girls why they deserved to be “filtered”.

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