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Can the shopping bag ban be overturned?

By Mr Gillespie 27 July 2012 137

As we head into the the 2012 ACT Election, a time when we are allowed the opportunity only available once every 4 years, to have our say in who gets seats in the ACT Legislative Assembly, I ask the question that affects our lives every time we have to get the groceries.

Can the plastic shopping bag ban be overturned?

Will the new Assembly overturn ACT Labor’s regrettable decision banning free shopping bags at Canberra checkouts?

When you go to the polling booth in 2 month’s time, please think about the injustice you have to endure each and every time you have to find something to carry all your groceries in, before you give your mark of approval to Labor or the Greens on your ballot paper.

What’s Your opinion?


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Can the shopping bag ban be overturned?
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davo101 11:54 am 06 Aug 12

HenryBG said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

Maybe the part where grocery prices didn’t go down after the “not free” bags were banned?

How would you ever measure this? The cost of the old bags would have been some fraction of a percent of the sale price.

What you need to realise is this is just another example of where business has chosen to use a government regulation to make money. The real cost for them to comply with the law is about 3c a bag but I’m sure they are quite happy to charge you 10-20c for it. You can tell the Liberals aren’t stupid, in their press release they say:

If businesses have adapted to the ban and would like to continue charging for bags, they are welcome to do so.

They know their business mates are quite happy with the arrangement where they can make money on the bags they supply you.

Mysteryman 10:41 am 06 Aug 12

I am going to laugh very hard if the Liberals get elected and the ban gets lifted. Just imagine the other crusades Mr Gillespie will undertake with the new found sense of achievement resulting from such a victory.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 9:14 am 06 Aug 12

HenryBG said :

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

What part of they where never free do you not get?

Maybe the part where grocery prices didn’t go down after the “not free” bags were banned?

Did youy take before and after costing of all products at all grocery stores in canberra?

HenryBG 8:07 am 06 Aug 12

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

What part of they where never free do you not get?

Maybe the part where grocery prices didn’t go down after the “not free” bags were banned?

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 6:47 am 06 Aug 12

What part of they where never free do you not get?

bigfeet 6:46 am 06 Aug 12

Mr Gillespie said :

And we are still yet to hear of any grocery shops (Woolworths, Coles, IGA) offering alternatives (eg. paper bags) WITHOUT charging customers for them.

Personally, I hope they overturn the ban, but the shops keep charging for bags. That would be amusing.

The $2.00 a year it would cost me, and every other normal person who can manage to remember their bags 90% of the time, would be worth it just to watch your head explode.

HenryBG 5:14 am 06 Aug 12

Mr Gillespie said :

The following article appears in today’s paper:
—————————
Libs push for bag ban results before poll

August 6, 2012

The ACT government has been criticised for leaving a review of its controversial plastic bag ban until after the election.

The Canberra Liberals say voters should go to the polls understanding how effective the ban has been – or not.

The Liberals have yet to make a final decision but are considering going to the election with a policy to lift the plastic bag ban.

That would be in contrast to the 2004 election when the Liberals promised to ban free plastic bags in the ACT.

Advertisement
Opposition Leader Zed Seselja said last night ”a lot had changed since then”, with information from independent bodies such as the Productivity Commission questioning the value of a ban.

The ACT Greens, meanwhile, say they doubt the issue of plastic bags will be a game-changer in the upcoming election and believe a repeal of the ban would be ”very counterproductive”.

Environment Minister Simon Corbell says under the act the review was not meant to occur until November 2013, two years after the ban started. But he had brought it forward by 12 months, saying it couldn’t be done any earlier. ”A full year’s data is required as a minimum to allow for an effective review,” he said.

Mr Seselja said at least some preliminary results should be made available to the electorate.

”The government is denying voters an understanding of the ban’s environmental impacts by not undertaking a review until after the election,” he said.

The review will take place in November – after the October 20 election – and for the first time provide figures on the amount of plastic bags, bin liners and other plastic packaging that has been used since the ban came into force in November last year.

The review will also look at the number of plastic bags in litter in the ACT, South Australia and Northern Territory, where bans are in force, against states that do not have a plastic bag ban.

Mr Corbell said the government would also look to a plastic bag advisory committee, set up by the Environment and Sustainable Development Directorate, to ”assist in the review of the ban and its impact on supermarkets and retailers through looking at data on the provision or sale of plastic bags, reusable bags and bin liners both prior to and after the ban”.

Mr Corbell couldn’t say if the government would change its stance.

”It would be premature to speculate on the outcomes of the review,” he said.

The new laws ban thin plastic bags of 35 microns or less but allows other thicker bags, with most supermarkets charging their customers for them.

Mr Seselja said there were questions over the value of the ban.

”The Canberra Liberals voted against the plastic bag ban because evidence from the Productivity Commission, the British [Environment Protection Authority] and the local EPA showed it was unnecessary and potentially environmentally counterproductive,” he said.

”We’re now considering whether to take the policy of overturning the ban to the election to once again give customers and businesses choice. We’ll continue to consult with business and the community before making a final decision.”

Greens spokeswoman on territory and municipal affairs Caroline Le Couteur said while it would be preferable to have the review results before the election, it wasn’t ”disastrous” to get them after the poll.

Ms Le Couteur said the Greens mid-year contacted every supermarket in Canberra to gauge the effects of the plastic bag ban. They received eight responses, including from some Coles, Woolworths and IGA supermarkets. ”Everyone said there was no doubt the use of plastic bags had fallen,” she said.

Source: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/libs-push-for-bag-ban-results-before-poll-20120805-23oa4.html

———————–
This basically means that:
1. It is not out of the question the Canberra Liberals would try to repeal the ban after all (despite them saying that they would have introduced a ban then found it counter-productive due to costs)
2. The review (which allows for a full year of data on alleged impacts on the environment) is not due till after the election (whose date cannot be changed, and the 4-year term cannot be changed)
3. The article notes that most supermarkets do charge for bags, which is why this ban is a problem

Since I raised this thread, discussion revolved weaselling around around business models (who pays for the consequences of this legislation and the idea that bags were “free” before, with distracting points like to do with “entitlements”), and as for the question of importance, and me being silly for bringing the issue up with this thread, I say this: why was it so important to ban plastic bags under a certain thickness in the first place?

I understand that the bags that are banned were flimsy and fell apart easily but nowhere in the Government’s literature does that get mentioned.

And we are still yet to hear of any grocery shops (Woolworths, Coles, IGA) offering alternatives (eg. paper bags) WITHOUT charging customers for them.

Repealing the stupid ban would be worth it just to see the sour look it’ll put on the faces of all the over-earnest vegetarians.

I now buy plastic bags when I go shopping (yeah – weirdly, I’m not in the habit of wandering around with a pile of my own bags under my arm), which means the plastic bags that go in landfill from my house are now thick things that aren’t going to decompose in a hurry, unlike the banned ones.

DrKoresh 1:38 am 06 Aug 12

Mr Gillespie said :

The following article appears in today’s paper:
—————————
Libs push for bag ban results before poll

August 6, 2012

The ACT government has been criticised for leaving a review of its controversial plastic bag ban until after the election.

The Canberra Liberals say voters should go to the polls understanding how effective the ban has been – or not.

The Liberals have yet to make a final decision but are considering going to the election with a policy to lift the plastic bag ban.

That would be in contrast to the 2004 election when the Liberals promised to ban free plastic bags in the ACT.

Advertisement
Opposition Leader Zed Seselja said last night ”a lot had changed since then”, with information from independent bodies such as the Productivity Commission questioning the value of a ban.

The ACT Greens, meanwhile, say they doubt the issue of plastic bags will be a game-changer in the upcoming election and believe a repeal of the ban would be ”very counterproductive”.

Environment Minister Simon Corbell says under the act the review was not meant to occur until November 2013, two years after the ban started. But he had brought it forward by 12 months, saying it couldn’t be done any earlier. ”A full year’s data is required as a minimum to allow for an effective review,” he said.

Mr Seselja said at least some preliminary results should be made available to the electorate.

”The government is denying voters an understanding of the ban’s environmental impacts by not undertaking a review until after the election,” he said.

The review will take place in November – after the October 20 election – and for the first time provide figures on the amount of plastic bags, bin liners and other plastic packaging that has been used since the ban came into force in November last year.

The review will also look at the number of plastic bags in litter in the ACT, South Australia and Northern Territory, where bans are in force, against states that do not have a plastic bag ban.

Mr Corbell said the government would also look to a plastic bag advisory committee, set up by the Environment and Sustainable Development Directorate, to ”assist in the review of the ban and its impact on supermarkets and retailers through looking at data on the provision or sale of plastic bags, reusable bags and bin liners both prior to and after the ban”.

Mr Corbell couldn’t say if the government would change its stance.

”It would be premature to speculate on the outcomes of the review,” he said.

The new laws ban thin plastic bags of 35 microns or less but allows other thicker bags, with most supermarkets charging their customers for them.

Mr Seselja said there were questions over the value of the ban.

”The Canberra Liberals voted against the plastic bag ban because evidence from the Productivity Commission, the British [Environment Protection Authority] and the local EPA showed it was unnecessary and potentially environmentally counterproductive,” he said.

”We’re now considering whether to take the policy of overturning the ban to the election to once again give customers and businesses choice. We’ll continue to consult with business and the community before making a final decision.”

Greens spokeswoman on territory and municipal affairs Caroline Le Couteur said while it would be preferable to have the review results before the election, it wasn’t ”disastrous” to get them after the poll.

Ms Le Couteur said the Greens mid-year contacted every supermarket in Canberra to gauge the effects of the plastic bag ban. They received eight responses, including from some Coles, Woolworths and IGA supermarkets. ”Everyone said there was no doubt the use of plastic bags had fallen,” she said.

Source: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/libs-push-for-bag-ban-results-before-poll-20120805-23oa4.html

———————–
This basically means that:
1. It is not out of the question the Canberra Liberals would try to repeal the ban after all (despite them saying that they would have introduced a ban then found it counter-productive due to costs)
2. The review (which allows for a full year of data on alleged impacts on the environment) is not due till after the election (whose date cannot be changed, and the 4-year term cannot be changed)
3. The article notes that most supermarkets do charge for bags, which is why this ban is a problem

Since I raised this thread, discussion revolved weaselling around around business models (who pays for the consequences of this legislation and the idea that bags were “free” before, with distracting points like to do with “entitlements”), and as for the question of importance, and me being silly for bringing the issue up with this thread, I say this: why was it so important to ban plastic bags under a certain thickness in the first place?

I understand that the bags that are banned were flimsy and fell apart easily but nowhere in the Government’s literature does that get mentioned.

And we are still yet to hear of any grocery shops (Woolworths, Coles, IGA) offering alternatives (eg. paper bags) WITHOUT charging customers for them.

God, is it just the fact you have to pay 10c for them that’s got you so butthurt? Because I’m willing to pay for all your shopping bags for the rest of your life if you just stop whinging about it, and I’m currently unemployed!

Mr Gillespie 1:30 am 06 Aug 12

The following article appears in today’s paper:
—————————
Libs push for bag ban results before poll

August 6, 2012

The ACT government has been criticised for leaving a review of its controversial plastic bag ban until after the election.

The Canberra Liberals say voters should go to the polls understanding how effective the ban has been – or not.

The Liberals have yet to make a final decision but are considering going to the election with a policy to lift the plastic bag ban.

That would be in contrast to the 2004 election when the Liberals promised to ban free plastic bags in the ACT.

Advertisement
Opposition Leader Zed Seselja said last night ”a lot had changed since then”, with information from independent bodies such as the Productivity Commission questioning the value of a ban.

The ACT Greens, meanwhile, say they doubt the issue of plastic bags will be a game-changer in the upcoming election and believe a repeal of the ban would be ”very counterproductive”.

Environment Minister Simon Corbell says under the act the review was not meant to occur until November 2013, two years after the ban started. But he had brought it forward by 12 months, saying it couldn’t be done any earlier. ”A full year’s data is required as a minimum to allow for an effective review,” he said.

Mr Seselja said at least some preliminary results should be made available to the electorate.

”The government is denying voters an understanding of the ban’s environmental impacts by not undertaking a review until after the election,” he said.

The review will take place in November – after the October 20 election – and for the first time provide figures on the amount of plastic bags, bin liners and other plastic packaging that has been used since the ban came into force in November last year.

The review will also look at the number of plastic bags in litter in the ACT, South Australia and Northern Territory, where bans are in force, against states that do not have a plastic bag ban.

Mr Corbell said the government would also look to a plastic bag advisory committee, set up by the Environment and Sustainable Development Directorate, to ”assist in the review of the ban and its impact on supermarkets and retailers through looking at data on the provision or sale of plastic bags, reusable bags and bin liners both prior to and after the ban”.

Mr Corbell couldn’t say if the government would change its stance.

”It would be premature to speculate on the outcomes of the review,” he said.

The new laws ban thin plastic bags of 35 microns or less but allows other thicker bags, with most supermarkets charging their customers for them.

Mr Seselja said there were questions over the value of the ban.

”The Canberra Liberals voted against the plastic bag ban because evidence from the Productivity Commission, the British [Environment Protection Authority] and the local EPA showed it was unnecessary and potentially environmentally counterproductive,” he said.

”We’re now considering whether to take the policy of overturning the ban to the election to once again give customers and businesses choice. We’ll continue to consult with business and the community before making a final decision.”

Greens spokeswoman on territory and municipal affairs Caroline Le Couteur said while it would be preferable to have the review results before the election, it wasn’t ”disastrous” to get them after the poll.

Ms Le Couteur said the Greens mid-year contacted every supermarket in Canberra to gauge the effects of the plastic bag ban. They received eight responses, including from some Coles, Woolworths and IGA supermarkets. ”Everyone said there was no doubt the use of plastic bags had fallen,” she said.

Source: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/libs-push-for-bag-ban-results-before-poll-20120805-23oa4.html

———————–
This basically means that:
1. It is not out of the question the Canberra Liberals would try to repeal the ban after all (despite them saying that they would have introduced a ban then found it counter-productive due to costs)
2. The review (which allows for a full year of data on alleged impacts on the environment) is not due till after the election (whose date cannot be changed, and the 4-year term cannot be changed)
3. The article notes that most supermarkets do charge for bags, which is why this ban is a problem

Since I raised this thread, discussion revolved weaselling around around business models (who pays for the consequences of this legislation and the idea that bags were “free” before, with distracting points like to do with “entitlements”), and as for the question of importance, and me being silly for bringing the issue up with this thread, I say this: why was it so important to ban plastic bags under a certain thickness in the first place?

I understand that the bags that are banned were flimsy and fell apart easily but nowhere in the Government’s literature does that get mentioned.

And we are still yet to hear of any grocery shops (Woolworths, Coles, IGA) offering alternatives (eg. paper bags) WITHOUT charging customers for them.

HenryBG 10:26 am 31 Jul 12

DJ Mac said :

Anyway the bags were never “free” you were just paying for them through the cost of the groceries anyway, the bags have always cost the stores money and they always covered the cost

Yep, I felt sorry for all the supermarkets having to go right around their stores following the bag ban to reprice everything taking into account the fact they were no longer providing plastic bags whose cost was factored into the groceries…….they *did* remove the cost of the bags from the price of the groceries, right?

Baldy 9:48 am 31 Jul 12

astrojax said :

hrrmmph, you’ve all got so much money you can go shopping. we used to have to steal shoe boxes from middle of’t road and eat them.

hey jb, can we have a new ‘mully-like’ award for the most puerile posts of the month? mebbe a stuffed hessian bag would do just dandy – we could inscribe the winner’s name in henna.

I love this idea. Can we johnboy, can we?

Baldy 9:41 am 31 Jul 12

GardeningGirl said :

I took one of my often reused and now illegal bags into a store and they tried to convince me to put my purchase in a new legal thicker bag of theirs instead. I wish I could see the ban as a good first step in changing silly wasteful habits but it just seems like a token inconvenient joke. However, since this forum has a regular contributor from the Greens can I ask if there’s any more plastic they’re looking at reducing? I can think of a few examples of really silly unnecessary unreusable plastic and I’d be happy to learn that they’re looking at it and have a plan for real progress.

+1

Baldy 9:35 am 31 Jul 12

Mr Gillespie said :

Baldy #98
Sorry, but I happen to think housing really is an issue deserving priority, and I could say someone thought banning plastic bags below a certain thickness was a “priority” in the first place! so don’t play the priority card with me!

And yet you are going on about unbanning thin plastic bags because some shops decide to charge for then. Which is about a trivial political issue I can think about seeing as it’s not the government that is charging you for them but the shops.

I’m not saying that housing isn’t a priority, I am just saying that I think it is interesting you put you getting free plastic bags whenever you want over the equality for everybody in as society that is a developed country, and you call one trival but not the other.

I think that this is very common when people talk politics. If it effects me it’s a big issue, if it doesn’t it’s not.

You are passionate about the bags and think they are an issue we don’t and think your crazy for making it one.

I think Equality for everyone is a big issue and you don’t and think I’m being trivial.

I don’t think you are converting many people to your cause on this because it doesn’t really efect anyones lives that badly.

DJ Mac 10:14 pm 30 Jul 12

It’s so easy – you go shopping – you take your wallet, shopping list and bags. Not a great challange to the average adult – OK I admit I have bags in my handbag, desk at work and my glove box, but still it isn’t rocket science.

Anyway the bags were never “free” you were just paying for them through the cost of the groceries anyway, the bags have always cost the stores money and they always covered the cost – at least this way it’s more up front. Why should I, who has taken bags with me when I have gone shopping for years be forced to subsidise someone else who is too lazy/disorganised/apathetic to bring their own?

bundah 10:13 pm 30 Jul 12

troll-sniffer said :

I didn’t read all of this thread due to the inanity of the subject and the responses on page one, but I did wonder briefly if anyone managed to bring cyclists into0 one of the comments

No but Mr.G did draw an analogy to the carbon tax but fortunately by that stage most of us had experienced symptoms of asphyxia and had almost expired.

GardeningGirl 9:53 pm 30 Jul 12

I took one of my often reused and now illegal bags into a store and they tried to convince me to put my purchase in a new legal thicker bag of theirs instead. I wish I could see the ban as a good first step in changing silly wasteful habits but it just seems like a token inconvenient joke. However, since this forum has a regular contributor from the Greens can I ask if there’s any more plastic they’re looking at reducing? I can think of a few examples of really silly unnecessary unreusable plastic and I’d be happy to learn that they’re looking at it and have a plan for real progress.

7

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