21 April 2009

Canberra Roads the most watched?

| johnboy
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The ever-shrinking content on the Canberra Times website warns us that the ACT’s drivers are the most observed in Australia when it comes to speed cameras.

    There are 22 fixed speed or speed and red-light cameras in the ACT one for every 15,700 territorians.

    That’s proportionately higher than NSW, with one for every 41,000; Victoria, with one for every 33,300; and South Australia, with one for every 23,300.

Firstly, and most importantly, when did we become “Territorians”? Surely we don’t have the crocodiles or cyclones to pull this off?

Secondly, if we must pay taxes why not take the money from those on our roads who can’t manage to drive at the right speed? Are revenue raising speed cameras a bad thing in any way?

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Clown Killer9:03 pm 25 Apr 09

‘Cameras per capita’ is an entirely meaningless statistic, particularly when you’re comparing a vast geographical area like NSW, with its diverse mix of urban, regional and remote communities, with a single town.

Having just traversed NSW by road a couple of timesduring the holidays, I’d say theres a fair share of small NSW towns with speed cameras that have a population of less than 500 people – even accounting for through traffic, I’d say the people living in those towns are under the camera eye a lot more than us.

SammyLivesHere8:11 pm 25 Apr 09

I have a rather radical view on Speed Cameras. I reakon we should be able to hire them as private citizens (or pay to have them in our street) take a % of the revenue and put the rest to the local infrastructure like utilities (storm water & sewerage pipes) and the local shops. If that happened people may stop doing 100 down my 50 km/hr street. The Police don’t care about the speed, and they say that to have a regulated van it has to be passed in Parliament first. I reakon we should have the ‘supa novas’ like perth and just raise revenue for the local community! ;-o) The upgrade of suburbs supported by those taking short-cuts through them and using them as race ways at night.

All they are doing is breeding the same culture as we see in Victoria where there are many fixed cameras, the locations of which are well known and published, but little other physical law enforcement on the roads. As a result you have drivers that go flat out whenever they know they are away from the fixed cameras because the chances of being caught are remote at best.

If the government wanted to have safe roads they’d make an effort to have a decent level of physical enforcement from patrols that move about, thus people don’t know where they will be at any time (and a mobile speed camera on the same section of road at the same time of day (as they all are) does not achieve this) and will simply have to follow the rules all the time (which isn’t a hard thing to do anyway).

I reckon we should just hand the traffic law enforcement over to the NSW plods. Let them have the loot to cover their costs.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy2:16 pm 22 Apr 09

If the cops were out and about on our roads, then odds are one would be near to you when you call for them, as opposed to bludging in the station.

And then when your house gets knocked over or your car knicked you’ll be moaning about “Why don’t the police go and catch some real criminals, rather than poor, hard done by road users”!

The point is that we should have enough traffic cops to properly police ACT traffic, and enough to do the other jobs. I have no problem seeing police just driving around..”patrolling”. And when I do get burgled I expect them to turn up sooner than 16 hours later.

Did forget to mention that they red light cameras only get those RUNNING the red light. You can go through the intersection , once the camera has done its normal flash & get away with it. I saw this while waiting through 5 light changes in Kambah during Drakeford Drive resealing. As the traffic controllers were forcing people to go through the red light, however the camera light never flashed.

This is not true, Some of the camera’s are infrared and don’t flash. They take a picture when the light intially goes red. If you cross the line after that while the light is red you will still be pinged for it.

It’s a red light speed camera, like all the other red light speed cameras there is only a small sign not long before the intersection warning of it.

It’s only the fixed speed cameras that get the big warning signs.

In response to post 37 and from the perspective real time and space not from Google Earth

I was wrong. There is a speed trap warning.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

The 80 sign, which is another 400m to the west, is no more visible than the previously mentioned 60 signs. It is the same size, and at the same height, and on the kerbside only:
Additionally, on the immediate approach to Ball St once you have crossed Melrose Dr there are two additional 60 signs and giant lettering painted on the road more than 100m before the intersection:

So far we’ve seen a total of four 60 signs at ~100m and ~300m, two giant 60s painted on the road at ~100m, and a single 80 sign _700m_ west of Ball St is causing you confusion. What more do you need?

The speed camera warning two sixty signs and two painted on the road lie virtually on top of the speed camera. In traffic, vehicles in the left lane do not necessarily see the right hand sixty sign and can miss the left hand sign which is attached above the much larger direction sign.

The very visible 80 sign lies 18 seconds before this. What do I want? Read my previous solution.

What they should do is put a speed camera on Hindmarsh Dr eastbound at the Melrose Dr intersection, that’ll mix things up.

If it is as badly signed as the Ball St intersection it too will be a speed trap. Is that where you are coming from.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Got anything by somebody who is actually qualified and objective? If one of my people handed me that quality of analysis I’d have them counselled.

Are you part of the ACT government? You seem to behave the same, discounting someones point of view as unqualified simply because it doesnt fit with your view.

TP 3000 said :

Did forget to mention that they red light cameras only get those RUNNING the red light. You can go through the intersection, once the camera has done its normal flash & get away with it. I saw this while waiting through 5 light changes in Kambah during Drakeford Drive resealing. As the traffic controllers were forcing people to go through the red light, however the camera light never flashed.

I saw a similar instance with traffic controllers, and the camera flash was going off every second or so, as each car passed through the intersection, as I was thinking at the time ‘I hope the ticket issuing isnt automated’.

bd84 said :

Personally, I have no problems with the speed/red light cameras at intersections, with the exception that they’re more likely to cause rear end crashes as people jam on the breaks when the lights turn amber.

I was driving at the flow speed of the surrounding traffic once (about 90 in 80 zone, its unsafe to stay at 80 when everyone else does 90). As we came over the crest of a hill (Athllon Drive Northbound), the vehicle in front of me saw a camera and slammed his brakes on. Fortunately, I was able to see and react in time, and applied my brakes too, however I was in a commodore he was in a laser, so he slowed to about 40km/hr faster than I could. This caused me to run right up the back of his little laser, causing an at-fault accident for me. It was only due to good luck that other vehicles didnt run up the back of me, as they swerved and changed lanes, potentially causing other drivers to have to react.

shanefos said :

But, dang it, if they don’t have nice big signs right next to the cameras, how do we know where to drop our speed back to below the limit and when it’s safe to break the law?!

At least the ACT government left big black boxes on the roadway to indicate where to slow down.

Felix the Cat said :

I’d be interested to know how many fewer accidents Canberrans have now that we have all these cameras to slow us down.

Not only that, Id be interested to know how many accidents still occur at speed camera sites. I watched an accident happen at an intersection with a red light camera in Kambah. The at-fault driver was travelling northbound and turned right against a red light and into the path of oncoming traffic. However, due to the single-camera nature of the speed camera setup, the first image the camera wouldve recorded, was about 20 seconds after the accident.

Id also be interested to know how the number of speeding motorists has changed at camera sites, since their installation. Has it changed driver behaviour at all, or just raised lots of money, for no change in behaviour.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :


Got anything by somebody who is actually qualified and objective? If one of my people handed me that quality of analysis I’d have them counselled.

Have you got any study on the effectiveness in reducing fatalities or even crashes, from fixed speed cameras in their current positions in Canberra?
No?

bd84 said :

Personally, I have no problems with the speed/red light cameras at intersections, with the exception that they’re more likely to cause rear end crashes as people jam on the breaks when the lights turn amber.

Apparently they do take your speed into consideration when issuing a ticket for running the red light. If you are doing, for example, 30k’s & the light goes amber as you enter the intersection & as it goes red, you stay at 30k’s. 80% of the time, they’ll let you off. However if you are doing 90k’s then you’ll get 2 tickets.

Did forget to mention that they red light cameras only get those RUNNING the red light. You can go through the intersection , once the camera has done its normal flash & get away with it. I saw this while waiting through 5 light changes in Kambah during Drakeford Drive resealing. As the traffic controllers were forcing people to go through the red light, however the camera light never flashed.

Personally, I have no problems with the speed/red light cameras at intersections, with the exception that they’re more likely to cause rear end crashes as people jam on the breaks when the lights turn amber.

The revenue from the other cameras just proves people don’t pay enough attention while driving to notice the huge signs saying “speed camera ahead” or are too busy paying attention to the traffic around them to avoid having an accident. I would also like to see what the percentage of interstate drivers being caught on the top 2 money raisers (Federal Hwy and Northbourne/Antill) is. I’m guessing there’s a lot of visitors getting welcome to canberra fines as they cruise into Canberra not keeping up with the multiple speed limit changes.

Has anyone else noticed the ad’s by google on the side of this page? Currently my ad is about avoiding TrafficCam tickets.

Felix the Cat9:22 pm 21 Apr 09

Holden Caulfield said :

…and even that is being generous given the line markings on entry to the roundabout that make it pretty clear you need to slow down.

There are accidents at the Federal Hwy/Antill St roundabout quite regularly (saw one there last week), especially when it’s raining. They have recently resurfaced the road at the roundabout with a slightly coarse mix, presumably because the previous surface was deemed too slippery, but there hasn’t been much wet weather since so not sure if the problem has been resolved.

I’d be interested to know how many fewer accidents Canberrans have now that we have all these cameras to slow us down.

Aren’t the speed cameras suppose to be changed to point to point cameras to punish as Tuggeranong Valley residents only?

The thing I hate about them is that they are either placed at the bottom of a hill (where people do let the speed go up slightly) or in a slip lane (where people speed up to fit in with the traffic).

I remember that back during the Easter Long weekends, the Police were altering drivers to the speed camera van up the road.

sexynotsmart9:07 pm 21 Apr 09

If the Canberra Times runs a campaign to SERIOUSLY increase the size of stubbies sold at licensed venues, I’ll consent to use of “Territorian”.

Until then, it firmly means someone from NT. And possibly John Jarrett when driving to Wolf Creek.

threeze said :

Can’t we be ‘Capitalists’ instead?

Everyone seems to have become distracted by the secondary topic of the OP, but I will second that motion. Has more character than ‘Territorian’.

My second choice would be ‘ACTors’.

Well, let me know if you do!

: )

If it means my feet finally get the respect they’re due, I just might Granny!

lol! You have to change your name to ‘Jon Stanhope’ as well!

; )

Granny said :

I think speed cameras have had an effect on the speed I travel – although the vans moreso than the fixed cameras.

I would also dearly love to see a strategy implemented for tailgaters though. Give me a speeding driver over a tailgater anyday. Often they go hand in hand, but some people do have the decency to realise that they can’t go any faster than what you’re traveling until they overtake you so they may as well give you some space.

Tailgating has the opposite effect on me from that desired by the tailgater – instead of hurrying me up I slow down because it makes me so nervous, and if they slam into my kids in the back seat I want it to be at the slowest speed possible.

If Mr Stanhope came up with a workable strategy to combat this I would literally kiss his feet!

Mmmm, a system where people can travel at the same speed and are able to stay the same distance from each other… EUREKA! I have a great idea and i think i’ll call it ‘a train’!

I’m taking my shoes off and am coming round to your house now Granny:)

I think speed cameras have had an effect on the speed I travel – although the vans moreso than the fixed cameras.

I would also dearly love to see a strategy implemented for tailgaters though. Give me a speeding driver over a tailgater anyday. Often they go hand in hand, but some people do have the decency to realise that they can’t go any faster than what you’re traveling until they overtake you so they may as well give you some space.

Tailgating has the opposite effect on me from that desired by the tailgater – instead of hurrying me up I slow down because it makes me so nervous, and if they slam into my kids in the back seat I want it to be at the slowest speed possible.

If Mr Stanhope came up with a workable strategy to combat this I would literally kiss his feet!

Well WMC. You’ve claimed you have found a whole heap of articles to support your point of view. Lets seem them rather than simply have a go at chewy14, because I personally believe the stats posted by chewy14, there have even been cases of speed cameras in the UK which have been removed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034919/Council-scraps-speed-cameras–blatant-tax-motorist.html

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Speed-Cameras-Are-Being-Removed-From-Swindon-After-The-Council-Decided-They-Were-Too-Expensive/Article/200810415126808

Just some interesting reading

Thoroughly Smashed6:40 pm 21 Apr 09

There is no warning of a fixed speed camera

There is: http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-35.348765,149.085258&panoid=8ymnGPlRuxXzIfsStWqsyQ&cbp=12,126.04466085057938,,0,2.7088772845953017&ll=-35.348766,149.085363&spn=0,359.991782&z=18

What can’t be missed is the 80 sign only about 300m preceding it and eventually the 60 sign that sits on the spot your car will be determined to be speeding.

The 80 sign, which is another 400m to the west, is no more visible than the previously mentioned 60 signs. It is the same size, and at the same height, and on the kerbside only: http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-35.34761,149.078769&panoid=OrkLZxGtIO3mb2EM0MOdsQ&cbp=12,94.9152139239597,,0,9.464751958224545&ll=-35.347589,149.078663&spn=0,359.991782&z=18

Additionally, on the immediate approach to Ball St once you have crossed Melrose Dr there are two additional 60 signs and giant lettering painted on the road more than 100m before the intersection: http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-35.348749,149.084737&panoid=EZpvbz-rlThoOh2yp61k2w&cbp=12,95.06875035182023,,0,5.234986945169712&ll=-35.348753,149.084848&spn=0,359.991782&z=18

So far we’ve seen a total of four 60 signs at ~100m and ~300m, two giant 60s painted on the road at ~100m, and a single 80 sign _700m_ west of Ball St is causing you confusion. What more do you need?

What they should do is put a speed camera on Hindmarsh Dr eastbound at the Melrose Dr intersection, that’ll mix things up.

Woody Mann-Caruso6:24 pm 21 Apr 09

first link on google WMC. UK group against speed cameras

“If we continue the yellow line downwards with no understanding of regression or trend analysis, and compare it to this document we jut came across over here about one small part of the UK, and ignore any evidence we don’t like, we totally find that speed cameras are…erm…anyway, to be fair you should stop all cameras now and have a ‘proper scientific investigation’, because we couldn’t find any or ignored the ones we did. So there.”

Got anything by somebody who is actually qualified and objective? If one of my people handed me that quality of analysis I’d have them counselled.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

The Hindmarsh drive/Ball Street speed camera is within 60 metres of the 80km/h dropping to 60km/h. I’m yet to get caught there but only by good luck. No wonder it ranks number 3

?!

The 60km/hr speed zone begins _300m_ before you reach the Ball St intersection. Here it is: http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-35.348662,149.0828&panoid=G-MPz1DgXwGmpObxuTIfNg&cbp=12,87.34497349090414,,1,1.2211269989000755&ll=-35.348482,149.083963&spn=0,359.995215&z=18

Yes T S you are right.

But there are reasons why people miss this. There is no warning of a fixed speed camera and the 60 signs can be obscured because of their position. The 60 sign on the left hand side of the road sits on top of a direction sign and near to a set of traffic lights and in traffic can easily missed particularly if you already know where you are going. What can’t be missed is the 80 sign only about 300m preceding it and eventually the 60 sign that sits on the spot your car will be determined to be speeding.

So T S if you have anything to do with roads and the ACT Government see about moving the 60 signs further back from the traffic lights, get rid of the unnecessary 80 and put the 60 on the left hand side on its own post. Add a speed camera ahead and we’ll be happy.

AG Canberra said :

In reality Jon knows the only reason why we have them is because everyone else has them…

Imagine this:

Canberra – The only city in Australia where there are no speed cameras. What we do have is coppers out there actually stopping speeding drivers, yelling at them and telling them how stupid they are. They are also out there to book tailgating drivers, those with one headlight and those that are unlicenced, drunk or stoned. This brave new world will continue to raise revenue for the government and at the same time we will see a reduction in offences because we all know seeing Mr Plod walking up to you is much more memorable than whizzing through a bright flash.

If only.

And then when your house gets knocked over or your car knicked you’ll be moaning about “Why don’t the police go and catch some real criminals, rather than poor, hard done by road users”!

Qbn Gal said :

Monomania, you’re right about Hindmarsh Dr/Ball St. I’ve been caught twice, just over the limit as I was slowing down, obviously not quick enough. My problem is that I choose to slow down by taking the foot off the accelerator and not by planting it on the brake, but the downhill slope at that point makes it take longer to get to 60. That one is a definite revenue raiser only.

I don’t think you need to “plant” your foot on the brake to slow a car down. How do you stop when there’s a red light if you don’t use the brakes?…
And if you can’t maintain a speed while going down a hill I think you’d be best going and getting some driving lessons.

In reality Jon knows the only reason why we have them is because everyone else has them…

Imagine this:

Canberra – The only city in Australia where there are no speed cameras. What we do have is coppers out there actually stopping speeding drivers, yelling at them and telling them how stupid they are. They are also out there to book tailgating drivers, those with one headlight and those that are unlicenced, drunk or stoned. This brave new world will continue to raise revenue for the government and at the same time we will see a reduction in offences because we all know seeing Mr Plod walking up to you is much more memorable than whizzing through a bright flash.

If only.

I saw an interesting graph during a presentation the other day.
It charted the number of fatal crashes per distance driven versus the number of fatal crashes per capita of drivers for the last 50 years.

The crashes per distance dropped and gradually leveled out, the crashes per capita of drivers remained steady. If I remember when I get home tonight I’ll have a search for it.

ChrisinTurner said :

If speed-cameras are only revenue raisers then I am in favour of them anyway. Perhaps we could get the whole ACT budget funded by the people who break the law. As I don’t speed I will be a winner. I have seriously suggested that the government halve the fines and double the demerit points to overcome the objections to speed camera from the rednecks and NRMA. Unfortunately the ACT government has invited the NRMA to a “round-table” on speeding, when the NRMA publicly supports the “revenue-raising” argument.

I wouldn’t halve the fines, I’d double them. It’s better to have poor people who are licenced on our roads rather than people who are unlicensed.

In anycase, I can’t recall any fatals occurring where these camera’s are set up. They should certainly feature within the capital but placed in better locations.

I have no problem with that one as it is also a red light camera.

Thoroughly Smashed2:42 pm 21 Apr 09

The Hindmarsh drive/Ball Street speed camera is within 60 metres of the 80km/h dropping to 60km/h. I’m yet to get caught there but only by good luck. No wonder it ranks number 3

?!

The 60km/hr speed zone begins _300m_ before you reach the Ball St intersection. Here it is: http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-35.348662,149.0828&panoid=G-MPz1DgXwGmpObxuTIfNg&cbp=12,87.34497349090414,,1,1.2211269989000755&ll=-35.348482,149.083963&spn=0,359.995215&z=18

Monomania, you’re right about Hindmarsh Dr/Ball St. I’ve been caught twice, just over the limit as I was slowing down, obviously not quick enough. My problem is that I choose to slow down by taking the foot off the accelerator and not by planting it on the brake, but the downhill slope at that point makes it take longer to get to 60. That one is a definite revenue raiser only.

harvyk1 said :

Whilst I don’t like speed cameras and don’t believe they are anything more than revenue raising, at least they are properly signposted unlike the ones in Vic.

The Hindmarsh drive/Ball Street speed camera is within 60 metres of the 80km/h dropping to 60km/h. I’m yet to get caught there but only by good luck. No wonder it ranks number 3

While driving over the speed limit is against the law it is not always driving dangerously, an opinion that would appear to be shared by a significantly large number of fellow Canberrans.

AG Canberra said :

Cameras have in no way reduced our road toll – safer cars, safer roads and “less” drink driving are the main contributors.
But c’mon John what are you doing for the other two thirds that are dying out there each year??

Other than education do nothing Jon. Accept it as consequence of the technology and human nature. There will never be zero road deaths.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

I posted a bunch of links to Australian and international studies showing speed cameras have a significant positive impact on crashes, injuries and deaths about ten speed camera threads ago. Nobody bothered to comment on them. Why let the facts get in the way of a good whinge?

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/effects.html

first link on google WMC. UK group against speed cameras

Is it not Tharwian’s Theory that whichever name survives is the fittest?

Deano said :

I blame the Tharwians and their push for a separate identity to the rest of Canberra.

I’m with you, Deano. Those damned Tharwians are responsible for a lot more that goes on around Canberra than we realise.

Stanhope is quoted in that article as saying that one third of all fatalities involve excess speed. So what exactly are they doing to solve the other two thirds of fatalities on our roads? Cameras have in no way reduced our road toll – safer cars, safer roads and “less” drink driving are the main contributors.

But c’mon John what are you doing for the other two thirds that are dying out there each year??

barking toad12:54 pm 21 Apr 09

and ‘you’re’ was a, umm, troll for english expression pedants

barking toad12:50 pm 21 Apr 09

The signs about the cameras should start well before the actual siting of the road safety device – and there should be more than one.

It’s easy to miss one when you’re head’s tilted back draining a stubbie.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy12:43 pm 21 Apr 09

It’s good that the speed cameras in ACT are nicely marked, because it reminds me to slow down for them.

ChrisinTurner11:54 am 21 Apr 09

If speed-cameras are only revenue raisers then I am in favour of them anyway. Perhaps we could get the whole ACT budget funded by the people who break the law. As I don’t speed I will be a winner. I have seriously suggested that the government halve the fines and double the demerit points to overcome the objections to speed camera from the rednecks and NRMA. Unfortunately the ACT government has invited the NRMA to a “round-table” on speeding, when the NRMA publicly supports the “revenue-raising” argument.

shanefos said :

But, dang it, if they don’t have nice big signs right next to the cameras, how do we know where to drop our speed back to below the limit and when it’s safe to break the law?!

exactly 🙂

Maybe I should rephrase what I said, I’m not against getting dangerous drivers off the road. I just hate the current focus of gov’ts around the world that the way you deal with the problem drivers is that you simply place speed camera’s there.

The ones in Victoria are more likely to catch an interstate driver who is concentrating on road rather than completely on their speed limits. The problem drivers all know where the speed cameras are an know where to slow down. (from their often very illegal speeds) so the person who gets pinged is the driver who was concentrating on the unfamiliar road and thus let their speedo slip 3 km/h over (aka the difference between hot and cold tyres). The problem drivers on the other hand get no punishment because at that point in time they where not breaking the law.

What I’d love to see is an increase of marked police patrols. When people see a copper around they behave themselves. If I knew that on an average drive of say half an hour I’ll probably see no less than 10 cop cars you can bet your bottom dollar I’ll behave myself. The good thing is that coppers can also detect other more dangerous behaviour such as swerving between lanes, not paying attention to the road, dangerously slow speeds etc…

You have to wonder how many of the 3848 people who got pinged by the fixed camera on the Parkway (Cotter underpass south) were also drunk. There’s no other explanation for how you could not see the damn thing coming from a mile away!

DarkLadyWolfMother10:45 am 21 Apr 09

I’ve always loved the fact that English can make the simplest thing ambiguous. I take it ‘positive impact’ means lowering accident rates, injuries and death?

I’ll have to go looking for those studies as I’d be interested to see their methodology and results. About ten speed camera whinges back you say…

Personally, I have no idea why we ‘have’ to signpost the buggers; it all seems too ‘sporting’.

leahcim said :

“The ever-shrinking content on the Canberra Times website”

An interesting point in itself…

I’m beginning to wonder why they don’t just replace all the complicated gubbins with a short note saying “please buy the paper”.

“The ever-shrinking content on the Canberra Times website”

An interesting point in itself…

Woody Mann-Caruso10:31 am 21 Apr 09

I posted a bunch of links to Australian and international studies showing speed cameras have a significant positive impact on crashes, injuries and deaths about ten speed camera threads ago. Nobody bothered to comment on them. Why let the facts get in the way of a good whinge?

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

‘Cameras per capita’ is an entirely meaningless statistic, particularly when you’re comparing a vast geographical area like NSW, with its diverse mix of urban, regional and remote communities, with a single town.

My thoughts exactly, I would guess you would have fewer cameras per capita in rural/small town areas, meaning the stats will be a bit distorted. A more accurate comparison would be Canberra vs Sydney vs Melbourne etc.

Holden Caulfield10:21 am 21 Apr 09

…and even that is being generous given the line markings on entry to the roundabout that make it pretty clear you need to slow down.

Holden Caulfield10:18 am 21 Apr 09

Secondly, if we must pay taxes why not take the money from those on our roads who can’t manage to drive at the right speed? Are revenue raising speed cameras a bad thing in any way?

Probably not. But be honest with people and don’t flog them off as being anything other than revenue raisers.

Sure there might be one or two fixed speed cameras in the ACT that are actually based on a safety need, certainly that argument could be put forward for all red light cameras, but I’m struggling to think of a fixed speed camera placed in Canberra that would be addressing a safety “blackspot”. The only ones I can think of, off the top of my head, are the cameras either side of the roundabout on the Federal Hwy exit just past EPIC.

Can’t we be ‘Capitalists’ instead?

As for speed cameras, I have no problem with pinging people who break the speed limit, but I do have issues with the way the cameras are marketed as a solution to accidents. If accidents and road deaths are such a big deal (and they are and should be), why are we letting a simple digital camera (that only looks at speeding, not drink or reckless driving) take responsibility for keeping us safe?

harvyk1 said :

Whilst I don’t like speed cameras and don’t believe they are anything more than revenue raising, at least they are properly signposted unlike the ones in Vic.

But there are signs everywhere saying “Speed Cameras are used in Victoria”, just like there are in most states (and territories).
But, dang it, if they don’t have nice big signs right next to the cameras, how do we know where to drop our speed back to below the limit and when it’s safe to break the law?!

Woody Mann-Caruso9:43 am 21 Apr 09

‘Cameras per capita’ is an entirely meaningless statistic, particularly when you’re comparing a vast geographical area like NSW, with its diverse mix of urban, regional and remote communities, with a single town.

I suppose in a technical sence we are Territorians, but lets see how far you’d get if you said that in the NT.

Whilst I don’t like speed cameras and don’t believe they are anything more than revenue raising, at least they are properly signposted unlike the ones in Vic.

Deano said :

when did we become “Territorians”

‘Canberran’ is a better understood, more widely used and accepted term, surely?!

Steady Eddie9:12 am 21 Apr 09

There used to be a local newspaper here called The Territorian. In 1969 it changed its name to The Courier before closing in 1974.

when did we become “Territorians”

I blame the Tharwians and their push for a separate identity to the rest of Canberra.

I’ve often referred to myself as a ‘Territorian’, although it’s usually when I’m trying to let people think I’m from the Northern one, rather than the Capital one.

And I’d like to see how the revenue generated by those speed cameras compares with their operating costs.

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