Labor flags new schools for Ginninderry, Molonglo and Gungahlin

creative_canberran said :

dungfungus said :

I actually said that the Commonwealth Bridge was built strong enough for light rail but the airspace between both spans wasn’t.

That makes no sense. The air space is just that, air space, there’s nothing there. If you add something to that airspace, it strength would be determined by the load points of the new structure. It wouldn’t be supported from the existing arches, though significant alterations to the existing retaining walls and electrics at each end would be required.

Seems a moot point anyway given they could add a monorail to the Pyrmont Bridge, built 1902 from Ironbark and a bit of steel.

creative_canberran said :

dungfungus said :

I actually said that the Commonwealth Bridge was built strong enough for light rail but the airspace between both spans wasn’t.

That makes no sense. The air space is just that, air space, there’s nothing there. If you add something to that airspace, it strength would be determined by the load points of the new structure. It wouldn’t be supported from the existing arches, though significant alterations to the existing retaining walls and electrics at each end would be required.

Seems a moot point anyway given they could add a monorail to the Pyrmont Bridge, built 1902 from Ironbark and a bit of steel.

And what happened to the monorail?

dungfungus said :

I actually said that the Commonwealth Bridge was built strong enough for light rail but the airspace between both spans wasn’t.

That makes no sense. The air space is just that, air space, there’s nothing there. If you add something to that airspace, it strength would be determined by the load points of the new structure. It wouldn’t be supported from the existing arches, though significant alterations to the existing retaining walls and electrics at each end would be required.

Seems a moot point anyway given they could add a monorail to the Pyrmont Bridge, built 1902 from Ironbark and a bit of steel.

JC said :

David_Wedgwood said :

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first, prior to most of the new development going ahead. There’s plenty of capacity on William Hovell for widening (once they’ve sorted out the choke points on Parkes Way in the city anyway) and the light rail stage 3/4 to Kippax (and potentially further out to Ginninderry itself) should provide a lot of PT capacity to the new suburbs as well.

Well, imagine the problems getting from Tuggers to Civic by car if when they close 1 lane of Commonwealth Ave bridge for the tram ! The 17 odd suburbs in the Molonglo Valley probably won’t get the tram because it wasn’t planned for – despite it being a relatively new development.

The inside lanes of the Commonwealth Bridge were strengthened during its construction to handle future needs like this and there is no reason why the tram tracks could not be laid in this lane and shared by busses, cars, trucks (and demonstrators) as is the situation in other cities who don’t have any choice but to use trams.

The axle loadings of trams are less than B Double trucks and speed on the bridge is already limited to the maximum speed of the tram (not that it will be able to go that fast anyway).

The real problem is the NCA will not allow catenarys and the super capacitor “batteries” that trams use for these situations (to obviate the use of the ugly overhead wires) are only good for short, flat stretches (and that ain’t the bridge).

It won’t happen in our lifetime.

Stand on the median strip of either Commonwealth Avenue or Kings Avenue and look across the Lake. That is where the Light Rail goes, between the TWO road bridges. It was designed that way!!! In both cases, there are two road bridges with the space in between for the mass transport system, whether is was ultimately to be heavy rail, a tram or light rail – Canberra was always planned to have it. Stage 1 (Civic to Gungahlin Town Centre) was to be built in the last millennium, but the ACT Liberal Government cancelled it.

Going to have to agree with Dungers here. The bridges were not built with light rail/tramways in mind. Limestone Ave was designed to accommodate light rail, and most main roads have been built to the same standard which can accommodate light rail, but not those bridges.

That said wouldn’t be too hard to put in a light rail bridge in that space though.

I actually said that the Commonwealth Bridge was built strong enough for light rail but the airspace between both spans wasn’t.

JC said :

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first,

You mean like how they build John Denman Drive in Molonglo as a dual carriage way and have been slammed on this very board for wasting money building wide roads to no where! Cannot win.

I haven’t seen it be slammed I’m sure the reaction from those in Tuggeranong is … Why can’t they be built first in places where people already live and feel the frustration of constant fear of someone crossing the narrow main roads doing 80km/h.

There are way too many parts of Canberra that have bottle neck roads. At least they got something right in Molonglo.

I guess we just have to wait until it becomes a blackspot. How many people have to die for that to happen?

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first,

You mean like how they build John Denman Drive in Molonglo as a dual carriage way and have been slammed on this very board for wasting money building wide roads to no where! Cannot win.

David_Wedgwood said :

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first, prior to most of the new development going ahead. There’s plenty of capacity on William Hovell for widening (once they’ve sorted out the choke points on Parkes Way in the city anyway) and the light rail stage 3/4 to Kippax (and potentially further out to Ginninderry itself) should provide a lot of PT capacity to the new suburbs as well.

Well, imagine the problems getting from Tuggers to Civic by car if when they close 1 lane of Commonwealth Ave bridge for the tram ! The 17 odd suburbs in the Molonglo Valley probably won’t get the tram because it wasn’t planned for – despite it being a relatively new development.

The inside lanes of the Commonwealth Bridge were strengthened during its construction to handle future needs like this and there is no reason why the tram tracks could not be laid in this lane and shared by busses, cars, trucks (and demonstrators) as is the situation in other cities who don’t have any choice but to use trams.

The axle loadings of trams are less than B Double trucks and speed on the bridge is already limited to the maximum speed of the tram (not that it will be able to go that fast anyway).

The real problem is the NCA will not allow catenarys and the super capacitor “batteries” that trams use for these situations (to obviate the use of the ugly overhead wires) are only good for short, flat stretches (and that ain’t the bridge).

It won’t happen in our lifetime.

Stand on the median strip of either Commonwealth Avenue or Kings Avenue and look across the Lake. That is where the Light Rail goes, between the TWO road bridges. It was designed that way!!! In both cases, there are two road bridges with the space in between for the mass transport system, whether is was ultimately to be heavy rail, a tram or light rail – Canberra was always planned to have it. Stage 1 (Civic to Gungahlin Town Centre) was to be built in the last millennium, but the ACT Liberal Government cancelled it.

Going to have to agree with Dungers here. The bridges were not built with light rail/tramways in mind. Limestone Ave was designed to accommodate light rail, and most main roads have been built to the same standard which can accommodate light rail, but not those bridges.

That said wouldn’t be too hard to put in a light rail bridge in that space though.

wildturkeycanoe said :

reddy84 said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

An extra 30,000 people out west and no plans to give them any more than just the one single lane road with which to enter and exit the suburb.

Really? I can see three separate entry/exit points on the plans; Drake Brockman Drive, Southern Cross Drive, and an extension to Ginninderra Drive.

Drake Brockman – 60km/h single lane road, joining William Hovell which is at a crawl every morning and only going to get worse when the Molonglo Valley is completed.
Ginninderra Drive is already at capacity during peak hour. Just try to go from north to south at the Florey Drive roundabout when everyone is travelling to and from work. What about the Bicentennial National Trail which has significant heritage value down near the Ginninderra creek? I can’t see anything on the proposed maps that show it not being turned into suburbia or becoming the Ginninderra Drive extension.
It’s fine to have more alternatives to egress the new area, but the roads leading in and out are not built to take all this extra capacity. The Starke St/Southern X drive intersection is already a notorious crash black spot, which is going to get much, much worse.

The roads and indeed the sewer and water infrastrcuture in West Belconnen were designed to have extra suburbs built at a latter date. Yes some need upgrade to accommodate the extra people, but nothing that is easily fixed over time.

Gininderra drive at capacity during peak, me things you don’t know what capacity is. Sure there are a lot of cars and you cannot go 80km/h, but capacity? Very few roads in the ACT are at capacity, but yes many suffer more congestion that when Canberra only had 250,000 people.

Not sure re your whine about the Bicentenial trail. The trail already cuts through Dunlop and goes around the back of Macgregor and the Holt golf course, no reason why that would in any way shape of form be effected by the extra suburbs. In fact the trail is more or less the barrier between the existing and new suburbs.

David_Wedgwood said :

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first, prior to most of the new development going ahead. There’s plenty of capacity on William Hovell for widening (once they’ve sorted out the choke points on Parkes Way in the city anyway) and the light rail stage 3/4 to Kippax (and potentially further out to Ginninderry itself) should provide a lot of PT capacity to the new suburbs as well.

Well, imagine the problems getting from Tuggers to Civic by car if when they close 1 lane of Commonwealth Ave bridge for the tram ! The 17 odd suburbs in the Molonglo Valley probably won’t get the tram because it wasn’t planned for – despite it being a relatively new development.

The inside lanes of the Commonwealth Bridge were strengthened during its construction to handle future needs like this and there is no reason why the tram tracks could not be laid in this lane and shared by busses, cars, trucks (and demonstrators) as is the situation in other cities who don’t have any choice but to use trams.

The axle loadings of trams are less than B Double trucks and speed on the bridge is already limited to the maximum speed of the tram (not that it will be able to go that fast anyway).

The real problem is the NCA will not allow catenarys and the super capacitor “batteries” that trams use for these situations (to obviate the use of the ugly overhead wires) are only good for short, flat stretches (and that ain’t the bridge).

It won’t happen in our lifetime.

Stand on the median strip of either Commonwealth Avenue or Kings Avenue and look across the Lake. That is where the Light Rail goes, between the TWO road bridges. It was designed that way!!! In both cases, there are two road bridges with the space in between for the mass transport system, whether is was ultimately to be heavy rail, a tram or light rail – Canberra was always planned to have it. Stage 1 (Civic to Gungahlin Town Centre) was to be built in the last millennium, but the ACT Liberal Government cancelled it.

I would agree with you that that space is the obvious place but the bridge wasn’t designed for that.

If you have information/source to the contrary I would love to hear about it.

Big call to suggest the Canberra trams will be “mass” transport.

dungfungus said :

rommeldog56 said :

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first, prior to most of the new development going ahead. There’s plenty of capacity on William Hovell for widening (once they’ve sorted out the choke points on Parkes Way in the city anyway) and the light rail stage 3/4 to Kippax (and potentially further out to Ginninderry itself) should provide a lot of PT capacity to the new suburbs as well.

Well, imagine the problems getting from Tuggers to Civic by car if when they close 1 lane of Commonwealth Ave bridge for the tram ! The 17 odd suburbs in the Molonglo Valley probably won’t get the tram because it wasn’t planned for – despite it being a relatively new development.

The inside lanes of the Commonwealth Bridge were strengthened during its construction to handle future needs like this and there is no reason why the tram tracks could not be laid in this lane and shared by busses, cars, trucks (and demonstrators) as is the situation in other cities who don’t have any choice but to use trams.

The axle loadings of trams are less than B Double trucks and speed on the bridge is already limited to the maximum speed of the tram (not that it will be able to go that fast anyway).

The real problem is the NCA will not allow catenarys and the super capacitor “batteries” that trams use for these situations (to obviate the use of the ugly overhead wires) are only good for short, flat stretches (and that ain’t the bridge).

It won’t happen in our lifetime.

Stand on the median strip of either Commonwealth Avenue or Kings Avenue and look across the Lake. That is where the Light Rail goes, between the TWO road bridges. It was designed that way!!! In both cases, there are two road bridges with the space in between for the mass transport system, whether is was ultimately to be heavy rail, a tram or light rail – Canberra was always planned to have it. Stage 1 (Civic to Gungahlin Town Centre) was to be built in the last millennium, but the ACT Liberal Government cancelled it.

rommeldog56 said :

bringontheevidence said :

But the Libs want more sprawling suburbs, not less…? Imagine the problems getting to the city from Tuggers once the Liberal plan to allow more suburbs across the Murrumbidgee comes to fruition!

Hopefully unlike Gundaroo Drive the Government of the day will build the additional road and PT capacity first, prior to most of the new development going ahead. There’s plenty of capacity on William Hovell for widening (once they’ve sorted out the choke points on Parkes Way in the city anyway) and the light rail stage 3/4 to Kippax (and potentially further out to Ginninderry itself) should provide a lot of PT capacity to the new suburbs as well.

Well, imagine the problems getting from Tuggers to Civic by car if when they close 1 lane of Commonwealth Ave bridge for the tram ! The 17 odd suburbs in the Molonglo Valley probably won’t get the tram because it wasn’t planned for – despite it being a relatively new development.

The inside lanes of the Commonwealth Bridge were strengthened during its construction to handle future needs like this and there is no reason why the tram tracks could not be laid in this lane and shared by busses, cars, trucks (and demonstrators) as is the situation in other cities who don’t have any choice but to use trams.

The axle loadings of trams are less than B Double trucks and speed on the bridge is already limited to the maximum speed of the tram (not that it will be able to go that fast anyway).

The real problem is the NCA will not allow catenarys and the super capacitor “batteries” that trams use for these situations (to obviate the use of the ugly overhead wires) are only good for short, flat stretches (and that ain’t the bridge).

It won’t happen in our lifetime.