Motorcycle Lane Filtering, your opinion

harvyk1: Yep, the driver turning right, (re post 87, don’t know how to do the italics thingy) in my opinion could’ve seen the rider but was also not expected to expect another vehicle to be coming along a single lane rd when traffic is at a stand still and a gap left so they can turn.
harley: I was using the term originally referred to in the OP but they were passing (undertaking) on the inside and didn’t take caution when crossing an intersection.
Not fussed on what it’s called but I’d call this particular incident I witnessed stupidity.

GB: where did you find it? I can find the National Road Rules but not the ACT Legislation.
I do not trust any Drivers Handbook, its understandably aimed at learner drivers so is somewhat incomplete if you ride.

Thanks Dr Evil #91 – that helped me find the relevant section.

imarty said :

I spot a motorbike ‘filtering’ down the inside heading down Corinna towards Callum.

I don’t think you can ‘filter’ or ‘lanesplit’ single lane roads. If I wrote a law allowing it, it would specify only between 2 lanes of traffic, headed in the same direction. This motorcyclist is a dill for trying it in an obviously stupid manner.

I don’t see how overtaking a vehicle on the right in the same lane can be illegal, since bicycles are vehicles and there’s no specific rule to allow overtaking of cyclists – cars lane split me all the time.
On the left is definitely illegal unless you are riding a bicycle.

I’m with Mrnamjama – I prefer not to ride anywhere near a car driver and use bus lanes whenever possible. I still keep an eye on the driver of any vehicle as they will attempt to knock you off at any opportunity.

People who open doors in front of a motorcycle filtering should be charged accordingly. Something like Acts Endangering life should do it. Who deliberately tries to cause a collision.

From memory, in my course I believe the instructor said it was illegal (got L’s 2 years ago).

I ride and drive. Personally I think it would have to be a very special situation for me to lane split. Really really really slow moving traffic backed up for ages. I’ve never done it and it scares me.

As a driver I see motorcyclists do it and my opinion varies. If they are being safe (as can be), there is no movement in traffic, and they don’t bully, then fair enough.

If they are acting like a bloody idiot zigging and zagging, I fear for their safety.

Yo,

I did the ‘Stay up-right’ course about a month ago, so i could get my L’s. Admitadly i did the NSW (Queanbehole) version of the course – but the instructor talked about this briefly, saying something like “its illegal to pass another vehicle in the same lane”.

I cant quote you the sub-section of the road rules he was refering too, but from what he said it sounds like its a no-no in the eyes of the law.

Like i said im still on my training wheels so i havent had much experencie in slipping through cars waiting at traffic lights but I think i would enjoy headbutting the car driver who opend their door on me.

mrnamjama said :

harvyk, a motorcyclist is safer in front of the cars at a set of lights, than in the middle of the pack. Why do you think that moving to the front is equivalent to risking your life?

If a car drove up and took up some of my space at the front of a set of lights, I’d assume they’re trying to drag me or run me down, so I’d give the car a WIDE berth. I doubt that I’d try to make contact with someone that way inclined 🙂

I don’t like it when motorbikes filtering through traffic when it’s stationary, it risks damaging my car. That said when the lights go green, unless the motorcyclist really guns it (and some do) it means that you now have three things trying to move in a space designed for 2. It can be even worse if the motorcyclist doesn’t make it all the way to the front before lights go green, they are now in a space which really doesn’t exist. As far as I’m concerned the motorcyclist has now put themselves in a really dangerous position which requires an action from a car driver to prevent an accident.

Motorcyclists are consistently complaining about how car drivers don’t see them, so I don’t know how they can feel that statement is justified if they then deliberately put themselves into dangerous positions, remember that cars are not necessarily looking for motorcyclists who have snuck in beside them, so all it would take is a car driver to accelerate say to the right of the lane (like they are normally allow to), not see the motorcyclist, and the motorcyclist is no more. Where as if the motorcyclist was behind the car, not trying to share the lane, then when the car used all of the lane it wouldn’t matter, the motorcyclist will have somewhere to go.

I believe the scooter riding ‘idiot’ probably only has a 50cc, or even a 125 and is just generally thinking he/she is being cautious. Maybe if the rider is a she, she sould join Scootergals? (shamelss plug)

I find any driving recklessly in Canberra to be kind of laughable within the city. We don’t live in Sydney, and the traffic in comparision is quite small. No need for Grand Prix behaviour.

I have a friend in Melbourne who lane split on a motorbike and a woman in a car in front opened her door. Result was my mate had some pretty yuk injuries and felt like a total tool. He won’t do it again.

My turn…sorry but I have commented on 3 things within this topic in the 1 post.

1. GB@45 wrote: I must be getting old. Where is this in the rules? Or do you mean people in the bicycle lane?

I am sure the rules are:
• Cyclists cannot overtake on the left side of a motor vehicle if that motor vehicle is moving and indicating a turn left.
• Cyclists are permitted to overtake on the left of motor vehicles that are stationary, at locations such as traffic lights.

For me passing stationary vehicles is fine – passing moving vehicles is harder because I am never 100% sure that the person isn’t going to turn left (indicators aren’t used sometimes –>a lot).

2. Rules about motorcycles and lane filtering are unclear to me so maybe they need to make some or clarify them. Personally lane filtering in stationary traffic is OK with me. But moving traffic is dangerous no matter what type of road user you are. And safety is very important – so maybe no lane filtering in moving traffic no matter how good or a rider you think you are. There is the safety of the other road users to consider too. When stationary turns to moving mid-lane filter…hmmm…maybe the motorcyclist should be aware of what is happening (i.e. lights might change soon) and prepare to re-join the traffic before the cars start moving. Being aware and being able to respond is an important skill required by every road user (its in the rules).

3. Last bit…
A road user that runs into the back of someone obviously wasn’t paying enough attention or driving within their ability. Even when the person in front is travelling anywhere between 0km/h and 100km/h.

harvyk, a motorcyclist is safer in front of the cars at a set of lights, than in the middle of the pack. Why do you think that moving to the front is equivalent to risking your life?

If a car drove up and took up some of my space at the front of a set of lights, I’d assume they’re trying to drag me or run me down, so I’d give the car a WIDE berth. I doubt that I’d try to make contact with someone that way inclined 🙂

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

…, I still don’t get why people get angry when motorbikes lane filter through stationary traffic. Thoughts, anyone?

Sometimes, when traffic is stationary but there are no lights (eg a roundabout), its the anger of “why are you making things more dangerous for us?” And possibly they have seen something like #86 in the past, and are just annoyed that someone seems to be doing the same (even though they are usually not).

And like #33 says: Mind you, it smacks a bit of a big bloke pushing to the front of the line at the ticket booth, just because he can. So it’s likely to bring out a little bit of rage in car drivers.

Which seems to be borne out by #20, “I loved the peeved look of old fogies in their dunnydores etc when you pass them.” — ie some enjoy the fact that it pisses people off, so that makes them more likely to do it.

But more often: pride, jealousy, together with a mal-adjusted anger filter. Bit of a recurring theme with bad driving really. And as poptop pointed out, most of us do it. Its just different buttons for different people.

Let’s just all encourage each other to do it less, not more.

imarty, as you point out, it give the driver something else they now have to consider at an intersection, has a motorcyclist come through lane splitting and is now sitting next to me?

I would like to pose a question to the motorcyclists here – how would you feel if you where at the front of a set of traffic lights (or other intersection) and I as a car drove up and took over some of your space? I’d bet you would call me a #$%&(@ and you’d probably also say &$@% @#^@@ ^@^@ to me.

To me, there is no way you can suger coat it, it’s dangerous, and even if it’s not illegal, (hey it may be just under a different law, not directly), it’s certainly not something you should be doing if you valued your life as far as I’m concerned.

So anyway, there I was (one afternoon a couple of months ago) waiting about 4 cars back to turn left on to Corinna St at Woden, from the carpark near the back of Dick Smiths & I spot a motorbike ‘filtering’ down the inside heading down Corinna towards Callum.
I also spot a car waiting for a break in traffic to turn right into the street I’m in. It’s quite obvious what was about to happen, and it did. Clearly the motorcyclist’s fault, the trouble is the driver of the car panicked and kept the accelerator down and the steering on full lock and ran into another 2 cars in front of me.
Luckily all this happened at fairly slow speeds and there didn’t seem to be any injuries but an example of what can happen when filtering occurs by a clearly inexperienced rider.
In saying that, I don’t have a problem with it when done sensibly in situations where there’s a clear line of sight and caution is taken when approaching intersections.

VYBerlinaV8_the_one_they_all_copy said :

After all this, I still don’t get why people get angry when motorbikes lane filter through stationary traffic. Thoughts, anyone?

As long as it’s at traffic lights it should be fine.

My girlfriend has an incident a few weeks ago at the Anzac Parade / Parkes Way round-about where she was at the front of the traffic, looking to the right waiting to enter the round about, she goes to take off and nearly hits a motorcyclist who’s split up middle and tried to cut in front of her. The wanker has then had the nerve to slow down to abuse her.

Jealousy perhaps? It’s never troubled me any.

Jealousy. Plain and simple jealousy.

Are we not the same motorists who have been know to tap our accelerators [just a whisker] so we can slide over to the other lane and get a front position at the lights?

I know it isn’t just me!

After all this, I still don’t get why people get angry when motorbikes lane filter through stationary traffic. Thoughts, anyone?

> more irrational generalisations…

Actually, that post made much more sense….& I agree with what you said. I only object to the “all car drivers”, “all motorcycle riders”, “all Canberra drivers/riders” type comments.

I personally believe it should be illegal, and besides if you do it then you do have a death wish. Motorcyclists vs Car, car will usually win. When lane filtering your taking up a part of the lane which the car thought they may have had. So your now relying on the fact that the driver is awake enough to know your there, and your now relying on the driver to give you the courtesy of not encroaching on your space (although you’ve now technically encroached on theirs).

If I was a motorcyclist I’d want to keep as much of the lane as I can to myself to give me the best chance on surviving.

Also with the statement that you have yet to find a sub 3 second car, well your not really giving yourself many options if something does go wrong, say for instance you stall, or do a burn out (because of too much power at the rear wheel) and you now have a problem, especially as drivers may not see you sitting in the middle of the road. Plus there has been many a time where a motorcyclist has lane filtered, ended up next to me at the start and I’ve had to be very careful not to run them over because they have had less acceleration that me.

more irrational generalisations…

my apologies…

If you believe you are safe because you drive a car, you are in denial. Anyone crashing at Hwy speeds is likely to be in for a rather bad time…

I was a car driver 100% of the time until I bought my bike. I tailgated like a lot of Canberra drivers, thinking the “two second” rule of thumb was for the slow witted.

Now I ride, I keep a 5-6 second gap, which is constantly filled with tailgaters, whom think that space is there to be filled, so I need to back off to get the space again…

at 100 – 120 (the normal speed people drive on the kings hwy, it takes that 5-6 seconds (possibly more) to notice a problem, react and then stop.

I’ve taken this attitude back into my car, and now drive with far more care and awareness…

Anyone driving the Kings Hwy tonight will witness the worst of driving. It’s not every car – it’s just a few, but they are so dangerous it can be a terrifying ride home. It is true that I have seen far too many deaths on that road – and none of them were motorbikes. Most were single car accidents where the driver was driving in a way that exceeded their talent and the capability of their vehicle.

GB said :

And I think VYBerlina is right about getting cranky. People should just not give themselves permission to get so cranky on the road – about people overtaking, people filtering, slow vehicles, the weather. Just settle down.

Having a good CD to listen to while driving helps immensely. Hard to get too riled up about other drivers when you’re already wrapped up in screaming your lungs out to Bolt Thrower.

Nobody is safe on the road. But motorcyclists are less safe. Despite them on average almost certainly being more alert than the average car driver, and more prepared to take evasive and defensive action. I’m not saying they are stupid or negligent, just that they die more often.

“Motorcycles constitute less than five percent of all registeredpassenger vehicles and account for less than one percent of vehicle kilometres travelled, yet motorcyclists account for almost 15% of Australianroad fatalities. Per vehicle kilometre travelled, Australian motorcyclists are approximately 30 times more likely than a car occupant to be fatally injured, and 41 times more likely to sustain a serious injury.” Fatal and serious road crashes involving motorcyclists, Johnston, J., Brooks, C., Savage, H., 2008.
Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government.

Maybe we should trial (car) driver training involving some time on a motorbike, for the reasons mrnamjama outlined.

And I think VYBerlina is right about getting cranky. People should just not give themselves permission to get so cranky on the road – about people overtaking, people filtering, slow vehicles, the weather. Just settle down.

Mr Cranky (especially when someone overtakes on a blind hill at 130 after tailgating).

To be fair, the behaviour of many blue plated vehicles on the coast road is pretty poor. Canberrans don’t seem to ‘get’ the whole overtaking on single lane roads thing, and many seem to get cranky when you overtake them (just like some people in Canberra get cranky when a motorbike lane filters through stationary traffic).

It is true to some extent I think. Before I got a bike I felt far safer in cars. Now that I usually ride, whenever I drive cars I pay 100% more attention to things around me than I used to. You take a lot more notice of stupid or dangerous behaviour on the roads when the consequences for you are much higher (ie on a motorbike).

Wow, that rant is laughable on so many levels. Thanks mossorcket. Or am I in denial? I must be! I drive a car!

Can anyone say “irrational generalisation”?

Car drivers live in state of denial – they are not safe on the road at all…
Especially Canberra drivers – who may be the worst in Australia…

I ride a motorbike daily from Braidwood to Canberra and back. Never, ever, have I had to get out of the way of a crazy motorbike rider, i’ve never seen a motorbike on the wrong side of the road on a corner, and I’ve only seen one motorbike crash (and that was due to the stupidity of road works being sprayed with water turning the hwy into sludge during peak hour)

but by driving on the King’s Highway daily, i’ve had my share of near misses because of ACT plate drivers, i’ve seen heaps of smashed wrecks, several fatalities, and daily stupidity as I cross the border into the ACT. I’m never scared until Fridays – when the loons decide to take their lack of driving skills to the coast – as part of the ACT’s weekly cull.

Remember, some of the ACT drivers never get back to Canberra, on a far more regular basis than us motorbike riders, we know that traveling is dangerous and we’re prepared…

The majority car drivers think that you’re in a mobile lounge room… more like a mobile coffin…

farnarkler said :

Motorbike riders are organ donors waiting to donate.

This whole temporary Australian thing and waiting organ donors is full of cr@p.
I know plenty of people who are old and have been riding their whole life. I also know an 86 year old who rides a BMW Bike as their main transportation.

Just cause I ride a bike and you’re calling me a “Temporary Australian” even though I am full Australian is…. Discrimination. If you were of Indian decent and I kept calling you a “Packy” you’d be just as p!ssed off as I am being called a Temp Australian.

I am a bike rider, and in no way donating any of my organs!!! So you’re comment is flawed! I know that if I have an accident it will be caused by another driver (more then possibly a car driver at fault). Especially since motorbike riders have far more road skills, perception and less distractions (phone calls, TXTing, etc)..

In the ACT road rules book it says “Always drive at a legal speed comfortable for you, your car and your passengers, but at a speed that will not obstruct other road users.” (page 34, http://www.tams.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/64478/Road_Rules_2008_Part_C1.pdf)

No reference to ‘as close as possible without exceeding…’, though I’m sure that I was taught that when I got my Ls.

I’m pretty sure the ACT law is that it is illegal to “Share Lanes”
this is the term used for lane splitting/filtering in ACT…

when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed

the scooter probably has an excellent reason – all out of horses at 60… (though if it has a plethora of mirrors and is wearing a parka, might be a mod coming down from the night before…)

Traveling in heavy traffic at a speed that varies considerably from the rest of the traffic is both dangerous and discourteous. And the scooter rider will get flattened when something goes wrong.

As for lane filtering, I think it’s a great idea in stationary traffic, as it helps clear the way. People who object to that are just being stupid. Lane filtering in moving traffic, especially above 80km/h, is insanely dangerous. When driving up the Monaro Hwy in peak hour, for example, at 90km/h, the lane filtering motorbikes are often doing a good 20-30km/h faster than the cars, and are often obscured from view behind other vehicles. As such, a lane change can mean instant death for the motorcyclist who appears in the second or so after the visual check and commencement of the lane change.

Still, I see a lot of bad behaviour by motorcyclists, but figure it’s their choice to ride.

Found it! “Unreasonably obstructing drivers”

Jim Jones said :

“impeding the flow of traffic” is what people get ticketed for.

From the ARR:

|||

125 Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians
(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another
driver or a pedestrian.

Offence provision.

Note Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle — see the
definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the
path of another driver or a pedestrian only because:
(a) the driver is stopped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles
(unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the
circumstances).

Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road
to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is
no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the length of road.

|||

It would seem unlikely that 60 in an 80 zone would fit “abnormally slowly”.

So, its probably legal; whether it is significantly unsafe is moot.

I couldn’t find any reference to ‘driving as close as possible to the limit under the prevaling conditions, and not over’ or similar.

{retreats again}

Doing 20kph less than the speed limit during peak hour traffic is dangerous and foolish. People can and do get booked for driving seriously under the speed limit.

My understanding is that the speed limit is simply that, a limit – its the maximum allowable speed on that stretch of road. The offence of impeding traffic would be relevant where the vehicle as capable of moving at the same speed as the traffic but simply chose not to for the purpose of deliberately causing an obstruction. Slower vehicles – and an example would be a tractor or back-hoe, or a scooter if you will – are allowed to use the roads spo long as they get along at what is referred to as their “best speed” there’s nothing illegal about it at all.

No, I don’t ride a scooter. I think they are too dangerous for me.

You’re just not listening are you GB.

Yes, I am listening. I think what we are having is called a “disagreement”. ;<) Hopefully, a productive one.

What I am arguing about is the contribution to accidents of scooters travelling slowly, vs the contribution of what seem to be belligerent attitudes, as reflected in, for example “scooter riding idiot” comments. If that comment was simply meant to say that the scooter rider could reduce their own risk if they sped up, or stayed at home, that may be true. But the tone did not sound like that was the point – it sounded like anger at being slowed down by them. So, sorry if I took you the wrong way.

Anyway, moving on.

On postie bikes: an acquaintance of mine who rode postie bikes (as a postie) said they had trouble getting to 80 with bags full and a headwind. No chance of getting to 100. I have not ridden one in 20 years, so I have no further information from that POV. But I recently travelled behind an ex-postie bike in an 80 zone who was crouched-down, throttle wide open, and nowhere near 80. I suspect his crouching down like that (on that type of bike) was probably less safe than just going a few k slower. If the rules for posties say to avoid peak-hour travel, that may solve it for them; but not for others driving similarly small bikes.

I’m still interested to hear if people get done for “impeding traffic” for being 20k under the limit. I couldn’t find “impeding” in the Australian Road Rules — maybe its called something else, or maybe its a local regulation, or maybe an old law. Anyway, If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, on the legal part — would like to know though!

On the practical side, though, just to be clear: yes, I do think it may be dangerous for a small vehicle like a scooter to be travelling significantly slower than the general traffic. I’m not sure 20k qualifies. That would be a 20k closing speed for the vehicle behind — a very light touch of the brakes at any reasonable gap distance. But, if this is the speed they can safely go, then that’s what they should do – it would be more unsafe for them to speed up. It may also that is as fast as they can go, though I doubt it unless its an old scooter and a fat bastard riding it. And if peak hour is the time they need to travel, and the main road is where they need to go, well there you go. Just deal with it.

If it was more like half the legal speed of the surrounding traffic; or a gap like 40-50kmh, then that does seem more dangerous – but entirely within reasonable expectations when you’re out driving, to come across such a situation. Would people’s reactions be the same (practically, and emotionally) if it were a truck at that speed?

I still think the main issue is the belligerent attitude of ‘everyone should get out of my way’ that is the main accident-causing problem, not slow vehicles. Flow is about dealing with obstacles with smooth changes of speed and direction, not maintaining a constant speed. And nothing to do with travelling within x% of the speed limit. Its not a legal right to go at the speed limit; and it is not legal to go at the speed limit if it is not safe – eg if there is someone slower in front of you. It is a maximum, that’s all.

The times we spend driving to and from work are the most dangerous thing almost all of us do each day. A few minutes longer to be safer is time well spent – whether that’s a second here and there ensuring a lane-filterer gets ahead at the lights, or a minute or 5 following a slow vehicle safely.

For me, it also means not riding a motorbike. So maybe there is some illogic here: I am advocating people doing all kinds of things to make driving safer, but still championing motorbike riders’ freedom of choice to ride, even though it is more dangerous. But I don’t champion people who drive at 130 in a 100 zone, who are also being more dangerous.

Hmmm.

{retreats to corner to think}

A tip for the scooter riding idiot. Do the speed limit before someone runs into you.

i’m with GB on this. have a look at a dictionary, thumper, and see what ‘limit’ means.

while i agree, the flow of traffic may be impeded, one scooter isn’t going to be the only thing holds up the parkway in the morning. would you have a problem with, say, a car that was ‘off colour’ and was being nursed into a service centre by its owner – who, like you, has to get to work on time too? yeah, you probably would.

i think the point is that we all have to drive to the conditions we find, not what we’d like to see in some shiny nirvana. if you don’t like it, you could catch a bus… ; )

I believe the instructions for speed limits are to drive as close to them as is safe under the prevaling conditions, and not over.

As far as filtering is concerned – when I was driving a car I made a point of moving as far to the left of the lane as I could if there was a bike behind me, so they could get past. I would MUCH rather have bikes in front of me than behind me. One more car can fit in through the lights (as someone else said), and them being in clear view in front of me is certainly a lot better than possibly not seeing them in a blind spot.

Now that I’ve sold my car and ride a motorbike I haven’t filtered because I expect Canberra drivers to be a-holes and make my life difficult (from 10 years of driving experience in Canberra).

I should add that, as a motorcyclist we are creating an extra car park, and olwering congestion on the roads.

You should be paying us 😉

Ditch the engine and put on some pedals, then we’ll think about it.

Interesting reactions by a few of the posters. I rarely filter, as cruiser with saddlebags won’t always comfortably fit. However, there are times when it makes a lot of sense, and as a motorist as well, I have no problems as long as it is done with plenty of time to spare and at a safe speed.

Lane Filtering is a spontaneous outburst of good sense in world smothered in twitchy and ever expanding safety margins.

Wait in traffic like everybody else. “I only filter in stopped traffic” falls on its arse when you’re in the middle of a pack of cars and the light turns green, like the knob on the red Kawasaki I saw take a mirror up the arse in Mawson last week. You say there’s no law about filtering – well, there are laws about overtaking, and you’re breaking pretty much all of them.

So, I win

Yeah, the road is all about winning, isn’t it?

“impeding the flow of traffic” is what people get ticketed for.

Postie bikes don’t travel on major arterial roads during peak hour, there’s no real problem there.

Scooters are fine – but if your scooter impedes the flow of traffic, it really shouldn’t be doing the peak hour commute, it should be saved for … I dunno … mod conventions or something.

Also, scooters are lame.

People who can’t safely cope with someone in front travelling 20k under the speed limit really need to have a long look at themselves. Or maybe have an introductory driving course.

Traffic flows safely when everyone deals with what is actually happening in front of them, rather than getting steamed up that some people are not travelling above the speed limit, or – gasp! – are below it.

Is it really true that people have been booked for being 20k under the limit? Seems weird: some scooters — which are legal – have real trouble getting up to 80 with a headwind, let alone 100. And postie bikes don’t stand a chance. So they should be off the road, legally? or is this a wind-up?

GB said :

A tip for the scooter riding idiot. Do the speed limit before someone runs into you.

Its neither illegal nor unsafe — its other drivers’ attitudes that are unsafe. The speed limit is a limit, not a reccomendation or a requirement.

Doing 20kph less than the speed limit during peak hour traffic is dangerous and foolish. People can and do get booked for driving seriously under the speed limit.

Ride like everybody is trying to kill you.

Big Up for that! To which I’d add Buy a big shiny noisy cruiser that yells out “stay the *&%$ away from me” That’s what I did after being mowed down from the rear by a car doing 80 while almost stationary turning into my driveway, and it worked big time – my weekly tally of near misses plummeted compared to life on a ZZR.

My rule #3 is “never have a Gear Sack rack” – once you’ve felt one of those rammed into your back doing 80, you thank your lucky stars not to be in a wheelchair permanently…

OT did it myself. Only if there’s plenty of space, and only if the lights just changed. Embarrassing and quite a bit problematic if the lights go green when you are only part way along…

If bikes hit or scraped my car or inconvenienced me significantly then I’d have concerns – but since most motorcyclists are sensible about it I have no problems with it. The only time it bothers me is when it’s a ridiculously loud Harley or someone screams up the breakdown lane at 100km/h.

I don’t understand the people above who are genuinely pissed about a bike delaying their acceleration by 0.8 of a second. Some drivers need to have a cookie and get some perspective on their lives.

A tip for the scooter riding idiot. Do the speed limit before someone runs into you.

Its neither illegal nor unsafe — its other drivers’ attitudes that are unsafe. The speed limit is a limit, not a reccomendation or a requirement. People saying “The slow driver made me do it” is just avoiding responsibility. See Sgt.Bungers comment in this previous thread.

If someone is safe driving at 60, that’s the speed they should drive. Its everyone else’s job not to run into them – which is pretty easy.

Slow down, chill out.

On topic: if they had lane filtered to the front, and then go at 60, well then they’re idiots.

Big shout out to the motorcyclist who nearly lost his life when the bonnet flew off that wreck on a trailer on the Monaro highway yesterday afternoon.

Some idiot with a Jeep wreck partly strapped down on a trailer decided that driving along at 100kmh would be ok even if the whole thing was held down with a couple of shoe laces.

Off flew the bonnet and the bloke on the motorcycle I reckon had to change his undies when he got home….

Aeek said :

Now, bicycles sneaking up the left side of you at the lights — that is a temporary Australian in the making.
…
Um, that’s specifically allowed in the road rules

I must be getting old. Where is this in the rules? Or do you mean people in the bicycle lane?

No probs with lane filtering when traffic is stationary, but if you do it in moving traffic you’re asking for trouble. Not because it’s inherently wrong on your part, but Canberrans have enough trouble driving as it is – do you really want to give them something extra to think about?

Darkmilk – agree. I really hate when the large bulky bikes pull up on the left of you at traffic lights, and you’re stuck waiting for them to get up to speed. No worries if you’re already there, but it’s a bit rude otherwise. Would be nice if bike riders would have a look at the car in front of the queue and really honestly think about it – is that car going to get away faster than my bike? At the end of the day though, it doesn’t cost me hours to have to wait for them so I’m not losing sleep over it.

Motorbike riders are organ donors waiting to donate. I have no problem with them lane filtering, in fact I’m jealous of them when I’m 15 cars from the traffic lights and I know I won’t make it before they turn red. As H1NGO says, as long as they don’t scratch my car.

If you’re on a sports bike and going to go for it, I’ll make room if I can. The advantages are listed above and there are bugger all cars that you’ll hold up (maybe only a drag modified car, top porsche etc or nissan GT-R)

What I hate however is scooters or commuter bikes coming in front of me at the lights and then holding me up, particularly in the wet! My car’s not particularly fast, about 6 seconds 0-100 but that’s faster than a lot in those classes of bike, especially in the wet (good tyres and AWD) – so please bike riders, think about it first and if I look like I’m going to block you that’s why.

astrojax said :

filtering. where did this term come from?

Filtering is more about low-speed moving up the stationary queue, lane-splitting is higher-speed in moving traffic.

Motorbikes aren’t holding anyone up, so why crack the shits about it? As long as they don’t scratch my car going past, I couldn’t care less.

strangely, a lot of cops who are not specifically traffic cops also happen to know the motor traffic regulations. who’da thunk?

filtering. where did this term come from? anyway, doing it to get past one or two cars is ok and should really only be done when there is actually plenty of room. i rode in sydney and it was really the only way to get through traffic, but there seems little need to press the point beyond a couple of cars in canberra, where traffic mainly flows ok.

bugmenot said :

Passing on the left
Passing too close
Passing at an unsafe speed (relative to the other traffic)
Passing a moving vehicle in the same lane
Reckless/negligent driving

I question the validity of this one – especially because the first 4 are practically the same, its like charging a murderer for manslaughter on the same victim…

bugmenot said :

Ask a traffic cop (not a DV cop). You can spot them as the ones that ride the motorbikes…

Also traffic cops aren’t just on Motorbikes. They drive the hotted up sports V8’s, performance vehicles etc etc. They can be wearing civies, normal uniform, or traffic pants and boots which are the almost like leather looking pants with boots up to their knees.

I understand why it’s done and really, it doesn’t negatively impact on me. As long as the traffic is stationery and it’s done safely, go for it.

Mind you, it smacks a bit of a big bloke pushing to the front of the line at the ticket booth, just because he can. So it’s likely to bring out a little bit of rage in car drivers.

Motorcycles in bike lanes? Bad juju. If I drove a mini or a smartcar and the cycle lane was free, would it be alright for me to use it?

While I generally am not bothered by people filtering I am of the opinion that it’s one of the activities people on bikes do to increase their risk profile.

For it to work (and it does 99.something% of the time) you need to be able to ensure:
a) You will make it to the front of the queue before the lights change.
b) No idiot in a car does something stupid.

I have personally had to deal with (a) where a bike ended up ‘trapped’ in a line of traffic that fairly quickly moved up to a speed that it was unsafe for the rider to continue to attempt to make it to the front of the queue. As the drivers didn’t know the bike was there – at least some of them would have had it in their blind spots & your not normally checking for someone trying to overtake you at the lights. ‘Interesting’ maneuvering ensured both on the part of the rider & the surprised drivers who suddenly were encountered with a hazard they obviously were not prepared for. While this event ended OK – it was so close to being nasty I was amazed. An accident would have probably been the car drivers fault (at least IMHO) however fault doesn’t really matter as a couple of ton of car hits you.

Ask a traffic cop (not a DV cop). You can spot them as the ones that ride the motorbikes…

I ride a motorbike and have also asked a traffic cop about this. The information regarding legality of lane splitting/filtering is correct, whilst there is no laws specifically targetting the splitting/filtering you can actually be pinged with about 5 different traffic offences.

Passing on the left
Passing too close
Passing at an unsafe speed (relative to the other traffic)
Passing a moving vehicle in the same lane
Reckless/negligent driving

There is one way to be absolutely 100% certain that you are legal and that is by not doing it. On a bad day, I guess you could be losing your licence on the spot.

I’ve been riding for about 5 years now and have not once felt the need to lane split. I’ve also not once had a car hit me, though I have had cars change lanes rather close to me, but I ride expecting that to happen and always have an escape plan (same as when I drive my car).

The safety argument (ie. “I’m safer cause I’m out in front of the traffic, not amongst it”) is completely lost on me. Ride like everybody is trying to kill you. Ride at a speed that’s reasonable to the surrounding traffic flow so you aren’t surprising people all the time (strangely, that’s when they panic and do stupid things like brake in front of you). You’ll still carve up traffic and get to your destination quicker than a car will.

Go ahead and ask a motorcycle cop. They were kind enough to explain it all to me one day (had this ongoing argument before)…

Lane filtering is part of your licence test in the UK. It should be common place.

Very Busy said :

Common practice in Canberra is for motorcycles to fly up bicycle lanes in peak hour traffic (particularly southbound on Drakeford Dr and Monaro Hwy). Is this allowed under the term “lane filtering”?

A great question! I’ll lane split from time to time, but usually not. However…. If there is an unused cycle lane on the side of the road and I know I’ll get to the front of the lights before they change, I’ll use the cycle lane because there is lots more space than what is usually left between lanes.

Once I pulled up in the cycle lane on Drakeford Dr heading south (intersection at Erindale Dr) and only realised at the last minute I was about to pull up next to a cop car. I fully expected to get booked or at least pulled over and spoken to, but nope, nothing happened. So I was either lucky he was busy with something else or he couldn’t figure out what to book me with!

Also, note I’ll only do this when the cycle lane isn’t being used by a pushbike, and I do it at a reasonably slow speed (so not to scare the cr@p out of drivers that may not be expecting a motorbike to go past them).

And sorry for the spellinh mistakes. On heavy painkillers and it is late!

Felix the Cat said :

I’m not really for or against it. Well maybe slightly against it because I’m concerned for rider safety and think that car drivers (generalising here, I know they aren’t all the same) might not see/expect motorcyclists to suddenly appear beside them at the lights. I guess motorists should hear them (if they haven’t got the stereo cranked up too loud) as motorbikes generally have loudish exhausts. Self preservation should be pretty high on most motorcyclist’s wishes so I guess they make the judgement if it’s safe or not.

I don’t think scooters should be allowed to lane filter but, because they generally aren’t very fast or powerful so could end up impeding traffic. Plus from what I’ve seen a lot of scooter riders are inexperienced at riding so their bike handling skills might still need a bit of work.

I don’t believe in thi practice for either motorcycles or scooters, and I have never seen a scooter rider in Canberra do this. I agree that it isn’t safe, not because scooters don’t have power, as believe me some do. As someone that drives a car and rides a scooter, I believe people on two wheels have to be hyper-vigilant and look uot for car drives when on the road. I don’t believe it has to do with experience or lack thereof.

Common practice in Canberra is for motorcycles to fly up bicycle lanes in peak hour traffic (particularly southbound on Drakeford Dr and Monaro Hwy). Is this allowed under the term “lane filtering”?

So long as you don’t treat slow flowing traffic as your own personal slalom course (seen this a few times) in between traffic lights, meh – go for it!

I crashed my motorcycle today. I was not lane splitting when I did. 🙁

GB said :

Now, bicycles sneaking up the left side of you at the lights — that is a temporary Australian in the making.

(I am a cyclist and car driver.)

Um, that’s specifically allowed in the road rules AND also sends some drivers berserk.
I’m careful and pay attention to what the other traffic is doing.

(Another cyclist who also drives a car.)

Oops.

GB said :

No, not at all.

Just in case that was also ambiguous, I meant “no, i did not mean that at all”. Not “no, motorbikes shouldn’t be on the road at all”.

Motorbikes are inherently less safe than cars, but that choice is the riders’. And car drivers should try to make it safer for motorbikes, where possible. Perhaps especially in Canberra, they don’t seem to; instead sometimes apparently revelling in making it harder for them.

Also:

bigred said :

I loved the peeved look of old fogies in ther dunnydores etc when you pass them.

partly anwers this:

Sgt.Bungers said :

Perhaps some male drivers see it as a test of their masculinity when someone gets in front of them?

Yes, it is a pissing contest, on both sides, sometimes.

Madman said :

Are you saying motorcycles shouldn’t be on the road?

No, not at all. I was commenting on the original post, about filtering. The analogy was between motorbikes filtering, and bicycles on roads; with the common factor being drivers (car drivers in this case) having insufficient attention on the task at hand. I hereby formally let go of the analogy, as it has clearly failed to elucidate my point!

Madman said :

You shouldn’t have to think about what a bike is going to do anymore then u should think whats the car infront going to do.

Shouldn’t have to. But, experience has shown me that on average, a motorbike is more likely to do an unpredictable manoeuvre, so I take that into account. Eg, when a motorbike has squeezed between me and the car next to me, I do have to think about it. It may not be SgtBungers.

GB said :

Get on a bike and you will think differently about it.

I have ridden a bike. That’s partly why I am careful around them.

GB said :

When I take off from the light when I want/need to take off fast i leave the cars behing me in my dust.

Yep, but I don’t know if its you, or some try-hard who’ll spin wheels and make smoke, or swerve into me as I move off. Or someone on an underpowered scooter, or who hasn’t taken their piilion into account, or who just muffs their takeoff.

GB said :

unlike some other drivers that will try to beat you off the line

Well, you are trying to beat them off the line. And as you are the one changing lanes, you have to give way to them. I can understand that some drivers might think “why should I go behind this guy?”

But, that’s always the choice I make, hence I delay till I can see that the bike is safely out of the way and in a lane where it becomes a predictable part of the traffic.

In short, I don’t think it should be a problem when done as SgtBungers describes. But it can easily become a problem, or a perceived problem, when done badly.

“Just give way to the motorbike, it’ll be gone in a minute” seems to be a pretty safe attitude.

DO it all the time when traffic is stationary. Would never do it when its moving – way too many variables. I loved the peeved look of old fogies in ther dunnydores etc when you pass them. The worst trying to block progress. Filtering has two big advantages – saves time and means you aren’t last in line to be hit by the typical Canberra late braking old fella. Had a couple of minor incidents but, hey, a bit of threatened violence works a treat most times.

Vic Bitterman said :

No problems at all from me with motorbikes lane filtering. As long as it’s done in stationary traffic, where it’s safer.

For every motorbike on the road (taking up bugger all room) that’s one less car on the road, so less congestion for car drivers and what-not, moreso when they go to the head of the traffic lights and take off briskly, which they always do given power to weight.

I’m not a motorcyclist BTW.

You’re not a motorcyclist, just a top bloke!

No problems at all from me with motorbikes lane filtering. As long as it’s done in stationary traffic, where it’s safer.

For every motorbike on the road (taking up bugger all room) that’s one less car on the road, so less congestion for car drivers and what-not, moreso when they go to the head of the traffic lights and take off briskly, which they always do given power to weight.

I’m not a motorcyclist BTW.

Canberra is the only place I’ve got animosity for filtering. Everywhere else in Australia I’ve done it, no-one has tried to open their door on me, or turned their steering wheel to full lock and inched as far as they can to block the route up the middle of the cars. I’ve been riding for nearly 12 years now, too, and I’ve been filtering for nearly as long as that. The car door was a bloke in an old shitbox Magna up near the Bindubi St lights when they were in the middle of doing the Glenloch roadworks, heading up William Hovel towards Coulter; the full lock and add gas was a middle-aged bloke in a Commodore on Northborne last year.

I’ve been ready for both of those incidents, mind you. All fingers hovering over the clutch, right foot covering the rear brake, two fingers on the front brake. You can also see people’s heads indicating the sort of ways they’re going to move or if someone’s going to try something untoward. They didn’t even come close to knocking me off.

Now, the time I got rear-ended in traffic? That knocked me off. Or the couple of other times I’ve been sitting in traffic, haven’t splitted, and people have managed to just tap my rear wheel (and almost knock me off). And I’ve had two people hit the back of my car (at relatively low speeds – no damage to my car… yay for towbars) in Canberra.

Pretty sure I’m taking the lesser of two evils with my filtering :).

My point of view is where do you draw the line on these exceptions to the road rules? I don’t really have a problem with this per se…. but for every person who does something like this “safely” there’s a person who acts like a complete d1ckhead – doesn’t matter what you drive/ride.

Might be easier to just have everyone obeying the road rules 100%… I wish!

Everything I’ve read on it says that there is no law explicitly allowing or disallowing it.

Given it’s not actually illegal, you can’t be booked for it. You can, however be booked for offences such as dangerous driving, failing to indicate, keeping a safe distance while overtaking, or anything else mr plod decides to throw at you on the day.

I used to do it daily, 20 years ago in Vic. Now I’m back on the bike after a 10 year hiatus, and I can’t be bothered. I filtered to the front of a queue once in the last 3 months, and it didn’t give me a chubby…

I overtake with narrower gaps than I would in a cage, but I don’t lane split… I ride a BMW – my mate calls it my “retirement bike”… that might have something to do with not bothering to lanesplit. Too old at 37…

As a motorist who’s never ridden a motorbike on a public road I say, go for gold Sgt.Bungers. FWIW, you have my blessing.

I’m not really for or against it. Well maybe slightly against it because I’m concerned for rider safety and think that car drivers (generalising here, I know they aren’t all the same) might not see/expect motorcyclists to suddenly appear beside them at the lights. I guess motorists should hear them (if they haven’t got the stereo cranked up too loud) as motorbikes generally have loudish exhausts. Self preservation should be pretty high on most motorcyclist’s wishes so I guess they make the judgement if it’s safe or not.

I don’t think scooters should be allowed to lane filter but, because they generally aren’t very fast or powerful so could end up impeding traffic. Plus from what I’ve seen a lot of scooter riders are inexperienced at riding so their bike handling skills might still need a bit of work.

Also might have something to do with the fact we have larger engine capacities compared to the weight ratio making it faster for us to go from 0-100km. When I take off from the light when I want/need to take off fast i leave the cars behing me in my dust.

Indeed – as soon as I see a car on our roads that can do 0-100 in under 3.5 seconds, I’ll be willing to concede that I might hold it up getting away from the lights 😉

(For those who missed it, I’m not trying to make a serious argument here – ss I said before, I don’t actually do it, and obviously this doesn’t apply to all bikes – I think my car would give most scooters a run for their money, for a start…)

err your logic is a bit flawed there. While no specific law exists to prevent “filtering” it breaks multiple other laws. Generally incorrectly changing lanes would be the major one where most change lanes in a dangerous manner i.e. into a non existent gap, when you filter you’re overtaking on the left – also illegal , or you can go the driving down the shoulder/emergency lane which is only permitted in an emergency or pulling over etc. which happens also to be illegal!

Madman said :

If we all rode a motorbike there would be no traffic jams or congestion!

It would be a perfect world!

I hope there is a lot of sarcasm in that comment lol. Load of bullsht, the extra 2 metres of space doesn’t help any traffic jams it only creates another idiot to try and watch out for. You can take a look at a lot of asian countries where motorcycles are a significant majority adn.. wow they have traffic jams too (just slightly less rules).

While I don’t condone someone deliberately trying to run a motorcyclist down, it’s more difficult to avoid running them down when you don’t see them speeding down to the left of you and they run out of lane or swerve infront of you while you’re doin 110kph. I’ve nearly knocked off 3 motorcyclists this year when they’ve done exactly those things.

Finally, I notice that motorcyclists filter down past stopped traffic at lights to the front of the queue to share the same lane as a car, however when they’re at the front of the queue legitimately, they don’t stop on the left to leave enough room for a car to come up and share their space? Oh wait.. that’s actually illegal too.

I never actually finished writing that post, my browser messed up and took me back to the “Transportation” page half way though it, I thought stuff it, didn’t realise my half post had actually been posted.

What I was going to finish with, was, it’s clear that the vast majority of people don’t care about motorcyclists filtering, but you have to wonder what’s going through the heads of the people that do? The well dressed, middle aged bloke the other day who clearly had a big problem with it, yelled at me through his window, blew the horn the instant the light turned green, then drove erratically for the next several kilometres, all because someone else got in front of them at a set of traffic lights without causing him any delay whatsoever?

Perhaps some male drivers see it as a test of their masculinity when someone gets in front of them?

I’ve just got back from a round the world trip. In EVERY country I was in, motorcycle lane filtering was the norm. Everyone did it, not once did I witness any driver get angry. If I commented to any local about it being a bit taboo in Australia, they all thought that was strange. In England, it’s so common place that when car drivers do not leave enough room for motorcyclists to lane filter through stopped traffic, riders will fold in car mirrors to get past and make a point. Why do so many Australians have such a big problem with it?

Realityskin, it has to do with Canberra because I do 90% of my riding in Canberra, and the two times I’ve somehow angered people by getting in front of them, they’ve been Canberrans.

As I understand the law, lane filtering is not illegal unless it’s done in a manner dangerous.

My understanding is that it’s a little more complex than that (I’m neither a lawyer nor a cop, so don’t take this as gospel): As you say, there’s no specific law governing it, however there are laws regarding passing stationary vehicles, and those are what apply. And what they say are that you can do it, provided the vehicle in your lane is on your left. The net effect of this is that you can do it, but you have to stay to the right hand side of the line – as soon as you cross it, you’re in the other lane and passing a stationary vehicle on its left, which is a no-no. Of course, it would be a real pedant of a cop who pulled you up on it, but they have bad days just like real people 😉

That said, I don’t do it at all myself – for me, traffic in Canberra just isn’t enough to warrant the risk of angry assholes deciding to take matters into their own hands – I have a hard enough time avoiding the people trying to kill me through inattention, never mind the ones who are actively aiming for me.

We’re assuming it’s talking about traffic here.

GB said :

Overall though, I think its a bit like ‘should bicycles be on roads’: its not that it should be terribly dangerous much of the time; rather, that its just one more thing for drivers to notice and think about. And they’re already busy txting and phoning…

Are you saying motorcycles shouldn’t be on the road?
You shouldn’t have to think about what a bike is going to do anymore then u should think whats the car infront going to do. The whole perception of you should move out of the motorcylists way is the damaging part. Get on a bike and you will think differently about it. I used to be that way till I got a bike.

GB said :

BTW, part of the reason motorbikes are first to leave an intersection when they have squeezed between cars, is that people like me wait till they are well clear before moving off, because there’s no way of telling what they’re going to do.

Also might have something to do with the fact we have larger engine capacities compared to the weight ratio making it faster for us to go from 0-100km. When I take off from the light when I want/need to take off fast i leave the cars behing me in my dust.
But thanks for being super catious, thats good to know – unlike some other drivers that will try to beat you off the line and seem to want to collide into your rear.

=-)

I’m pretty sure Mr Bungers does it as he says; but many I see do not, particularly doing it in moving traffic.

Overall though, I think its a bit like ‘should bicycles be on roads’: its not that it should be terribly dangerous much of the time; rather, that its just one more thing for drivers to notice and think about. And they’re already busy txting and phoning…

BTW, part of the reason motorbikes are first to leave an intersection when they have squeezed between cars, is that people like me wait till they are well clear before moving off, because there’s no way of telling what they’re going to do.

Now, bicycles sneaking up the left side of you at the lights — that is a temporary Australian in the making.

(I am a cyclist and car driver.)

There’s Motorcycle in Canberra, Bungers is in Canberra, Canberra is apart of Australia…

Lane filtering happens in Canberra.

All of that was worked out from the topics comments…. READ!!!

What has this go to with Canberra ?

As a registration paying rider, you have all the rights as any other motorist on the road, that does not include lane filtering. But I think your free to do it if you want, but you run an increased risk of an accident, and you’ll come off second best.

Though anyone attempting to run you off the road is attempted murder, IMO.

Yeah, but then you would get those bastards on monkey bikes splitting lanes between the motorbikes.

Do a search Bungers, this has been done to death.

If we all rode a motorbike there would be no traffic jams or congestion!

It would be a perfect world!