poor driving habits increase

OK so maybe a slight exaggeration, not >10km – but it sure felt like it! Its the road that goes past the zoo all the way to the John James hospital. There was oncoming traffic so I couldn’t overtake. It was prolly about 7kms I estimate from google maps.

I suspect that the scooter is quite legal (assuming its been registered and the like, or is specifically exempt from registration like push bikes etc.)

As long as the vehicle is getting along at its “best speed” it doesn’t matter if it’s not reaching the speed limit – same deal applies for vehicles like tractors etc, when they have to use roads. A 2006 Toyota Corolla putting along at 70km/h in the 100 zone because the driver is frightened that they may involuntarily evacuate their bowels if they go any faster is however a traffic hazard and a finable offence.

A 50cc scooter has a max speed of 60km/h. I don’t know the legality of this, but I don’t think anybody would give a flying if scooter riders used bike lanes to avoid bigger traffic.

Commonly, I and other motorcyclists use the slip lane on the approach to Glenloch Interchange, not to cut in on 2km + of traffic, but to get out of everybody elses way.

I sometimes see scooters buzzing along in the slip lane. If you’re going to go well below the speed limit, this makes a lot of sense.

I doubt it would…you’d think the police would pick him up. There was one going down Northborne the other day, nearly collected him turning into Wakefield Ave.

What I do hate is when people merge into the space I have left in front of me FOR SAFETY. Amazing how many people don’t seem to grasp that that I am not inviting them to squeeze in that space, it is there for a good reason!

“In Canberra, the indicator goes on (sometimes), the guy ‘behind’ speeds up to try to keep the lane changer out.”

I don’t know how many times I’ve experienced this phenomenon. The look of indignation on the poor saps face is priceless though … they’re so indignant at the notion of having been “cut off”. The other one I love is merging on the parkway. You’re entering from say Cotter Road, there’s a guy driving along the parkway in the left hand lane, no one in the right. As you accelerate to 100-110km/h to merge effectively he’s still there in the left hand lane … here’s a tip, if getting cut off annoys you, then move out of my way.

In case you missed it, Cranky posted this excellent youtube video which shows what happens when you FAIL TO KEEP UP WITH THE VEHICLE IN FRONT OF YOU. This would include blocking traffic travelling at 130kph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suugn-p5C1M&feature=bz303

Additionally, I am not aware of any 70km speed zones that goes for 10km. Where abouts were you driving ?

(50km in a 70km zone) for >10km

For more than 10km ? Are you serious or is that an exaduration ?

Gotta give it to you, you’re a more patient individual than I am.

I would have been looking for the first clear broken line section of road and going safely around said vehicle.

Additionally, if driving was going to have negative health effects on me, I would seriously consider leaving extremely early (As I do for job interviews) or give up driving full stop.

Something as simple as driving should not provide you with negative health ramifications. Imagine if you popped a vessel in your head from the stress….. funk that.

Precisely why I came to the (shocking for me at the time) conclusion that I actually prefer driving in Sydney, VY. Ended up in the CBD last time I was there, no problems. It’s busy, but the traffic still flows.

…and by educated we mean executed.

In Sydney, you put your indicator on, a gap forms, you change lanes. In Canberra, the indicator goes on (sometimes), the guy ‘behind’ speeds up to try to keep the lane changer out, or the person you try to let in stuffs around and takes 500 metres to get from one lane to another, as though they’re really not sure whcih way to point the vehicle.

Exactly.

I was stuck behind someone going 20km under the speed limit (50km in a 70km zone) for >10km on my way to a doctor’s appointment (which I was late for). My blood pressure was 30 points higher when I arrived at the appointment – I think due to anger and anxiety caused by being late and being held up for so long. After 10 minutes it went back to normal. Those people who take pleasure in causing frustration in other drivers should be educated.

After a weekend of driving in Sydney I am reminded why Canberra drivers irritate me. Lane discipline is stunningly bad in Canberra – not just overuse of the right hand lane for no good reason, but lane changes also. In Sydney, you put your indicator on, a gap forms, you change lanes. In Canberra, the indicator goes on (sometimes), the guy ‘behind’ speeds up to try to keep the lane changer out, or the person you try to let in stuffs around and takes 500 metres to get from one lane to another, as though they’re really not sure whcih way to point the vehicle. This has flow on effects to merging. In Sydney, cars merge evenly from each lane (one for one), in Canberra, everyone tries to push to the front, then has to stand on the brakes so as not to hit another car.

I think the biggest problem in Canberra is that people are just not skilled enough to drive near to other vehicles without thinking they are going to crash – it’s just nuts. I think pushing in close when queueing at lights so slip lanes are available is a great idea. Fundamentally, every time we stop traffic from moving, we are ultimately making our own lives harder. Also, having people like BerraBoy playing policeman makes things much worse, as such people often misjudge speed and intent, and end up causing unnecessary angst.

That was an excellent youtube post, Cranky. It proves my point that people who leave large gaps hinder the flow of traffic behind them.

Imagine this scenario again on a road several kilometres long packed out with peak hour traffic.

el – I figured there might have been some people that were referring to that roundabout only (though I think it clear that the discussion evolved to cover use of all two lane roundabouts), which is why I sought to make it clear exactly what I was referring to.

So I don’t know that you can safely say the rest of you are… but even if that’s the case, I have no real opinion on Anzac Pde as I simply don’t use the road often enough.

An interesting link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suugn-p5C1M&feature=bz303

Circular version of most Canberra roads.

*You* might not be Cameron, but the rest of us (now that I’ve caught up 🙂 ) are.

el – I’m not just talking about *that* roundabout. In fact, my second last post before yours says so pretty clearly.

The point I’m trying to make is that there are plenty (if not the majority) of instances where using both lanes in a roundabout is acceptable.

Just because Anzac Pde and the one I mentioned in Conder aren’t right for it, doesn’t mean the NORMAL (let’s face it, there are a whole bunch of ordinary run-of-the-mill) roundabouts shouldn’t be used correctly.

I agree with Sepi on the ANZAC Pde roundabout. 2 lanes, going in opposite directions with people pushing their way in at the last second is rude.

What we’re taking about is when 2 lanes go throgh a roundabout and head in the same direction. Straight in the left lane or straight in the right and then a form 1 lane after it. Do you agree Sepi that this example is not being rude? Because surely Ant is the only 1-eyed sheep around here.

Cameron: Before you continue digging any further, you need to have a proper look at the intersection (Anzac Pde) we’re talking about, mate 🙂

It’s _not_ a normal roundabout.

Mael – the point I was making there was that this particular roundabout is one such where using the other lane doesn’t make sense during heavy traffic, but during light traffic there’s no reason not to.

By extension, I’m saying that what I’m arguing about using two lanes doesn’t necessarily apply to all roundabouts. I would think that those such as Ant could concede that using two lanes in some roundabouts doesn’t constitute queue jumping either.

But, then I simply read Ant’s latest post. I hate to troll, but Ant, you’re an idiot.

The queue jumpers will seize on anything they hope might justify what they do. A long line of stop-start cars, with greedy opportunists taking a short stretch of right lane to jump a few spots in the line… you’d think that no one would be barefaced enough to try and justify it, but plainly they are.

and it doesn’t make the traffic “flow”. This is what makes traffic some to a standstill as the queue-jumpers force the long stop-start line to slow down even further to allow the push-ins to merge back into the line they just left.

Nothing that is said here will change such a mentality, pigs at the trough is exactly the behaviour. The non pigs will stand back while the push-ins charge at the trough. And apparently, this means they are “smarter”, as no one else could ever think of it.

Actually, everyone’s thought of it, it’s just that many people can’t bring themselves to behave like that.

there have been many occasions where I have used the other lane to move past a slower moving (ie 40 under the limit) vehicle – that doesn’t make me rude, it just means I’m using the road the way it was intended.

It also means the left hand lane isnt stationary – just pointing out the irrelevancy of your point.

I don’t think its necessary to get down to the level of differentiating between people making an ordinary overtaking maneuver and those queue jumping do we ?

I don’t think I’m doing anything because I’m smarter than anyone else. I don’t think I’m being rude either. Realistic perhaps.

I don’t pretend for a second that the two lane use I advocate is suitable for every roundabout either. I know the roundabout being referred to on Anzac Pde, but I don’t use it often enough to comment on it.

I can use a southside roundabout as an example – the Tharwa Dr / Mentone view roundabout as you enter the Lanyon Valley – it’s the roundabout before the marketplace roundabout if you’re heading south.

It has two lanes southbound, and it is a case where I would NOT advocate using both of them, and most people don’t. The reason? The post roundabout merge happens QUICKLY. Additionally, it’s a downhill sweeping turn and it would make using both lanes dangerous.

In this situation, most people do have the common sense to stick to one lane, because this is what works. The left lane becomes a turn only lane (even though it isn’t one).

Despite all of that, there have been many occasions where I have used the other lane to move past a slower moving (ie 40 under the limit) vehicle – that doesn’t make me rude, it just means I’m using the road the way it was intended.

Like every road, and every road rule, common sense simply must prevail. A blanket “queue jumper” label for anyone who uses a second lane that exists before, during and after a roundabout (particularly when it merges, not when one of the lane ENDS) is just stupid, and petty (like most of ants ‘greedy pigs’ posts – incredibly juvenile).

Your supermarket analogy is a poor one Mael – there clearly is one line and the intention always is that there is one line.

Hmm – but everybody got it.

Most people also get the idea that there is a line forming to get into a roundabout – it matters not to me how much of a hole you want to dig to justify yourselves. Karma’s a nasty bastard who really surprises you when yours is up.

Aha, OK, now I can picture the particular intersection you’re talking about* – in which case, I agree – it’s poor form to make use of a merging lane like that (discourteous), and a pretty crap design in that instance (the merging from two lanes to single lane could be done much earlier on that stretch of road.)

*I thought we were talking about a run of the mill roundabout with two lanes for left/straight and right/straight traffic.

You should drive up anzac pde sometime at 5.30ish.

The two lanes cannot enter the roundabout. Right at the top, just before the roundabout, the middle lane ends, and quickly merges with the left one. The right hand lane is right turn only.

The traffic will flow better if everyone uses both lanes. As soon as a break occurs allowing cars from that side of the roundabout to enter, two cars will be able to enter simultaneously instead of just the one.

Just as long as you don’t think you are doing this because you are smarter than everyone else.
You are just ruder.

ahaha – a sense of entitlement to a spot on the road because you were there first. That couldn’t be more ridiculous.

There are many situations where a queue is necessary – because people are directed to form one due to signage or what not… but where there are two lanes and one of them is free… people can use it. It really is as simple as that, and frankly I’m amazed that anyone who thinks otherwise passed their driving test.

Get. A. Grip.

Do you honestly think anyone hadn’t thought of taking the emptier lane??

It is just that most people realise that pushing back in front of people who were there first is really rude.

Ant:
Ben Mac wondered why people were beeping at him when he did it, well now he knows

No, I know why people were beeping. They were pissed off that they hadn’t thought of doing the same thing. Something that is entirely legal and made use of the way the road was designed and intended for. As I said, this is just a case of too many public servants (read: sheep) in Canberra, who think they are getting screwed over when someone actually uses their brain and common sense.

On Anzac pde there is no point to it really. It got like that after roadworks.

“The traffic can’t move any faster in two lanes than one when it eventually has to all merge into one spot.”

So tell me again what is the point of having two lanes that eventually merge? Just for sh1ts and giggles?

Mate what you did was inherently more dangerous then some one doing 130k down the parkway in the fast lane. And the fact you seem to enjoy doing that is real worry.

BerraBoy: Do you *really* need it pointed out to you that travelling down the Tuggeranong Parkway in 1.5-2 tonnes of steel at 100Km/h isn’t the place for one-upmanship?

What you’re doing is the exact OPPOSITE of defensive driving, regardless of whether or not you’re obeying the speed limit.

Shauno – Read my post again. I stated the reason. How many accidents have you attended where someone has been injured of killed because some c*ck thought the road rules didn’t apply to them and thought it wonderfully clever to speed – just to impress their mates or get to work 5 mins quicker.

Your comment that LEGALLY overtaking someone while incidentally slowing someone down is “worse than driving at 130K down a duel lane road” really sums you up. You must be an absolute genius!

You seem to think its OK for speeders to piss off everyone else, and place them at risk, but heaven forbid someone should actually be pissed off by someone speeding. When they change the road rules let me know.

As for the crack about trying it in Europe. Sure lived there for 6 years. No problem driving there either.

*Some* people aren’t trying to justify anything, Ant. This thread seems to be a bit fifty fifty when it comes to this issue, so the least you could do is acknowledge that what constitutes queue jumping in YOUR opinion, doesn’t necessarily constitute the same thing in the minds of many others.

As far as justification goes, anyone who pays taxes and car rego has as much right to use any public road as the rest of us – that means free lanes too. That’s all the ‘justification’ we’ll ever need.

Sepi Said:”When there is a line of traffic almost at a standstill in the left lane, it is not ’smart’ to zoom past in the right and then try to force your way in at the top. It’s just rude.”

Exactly. And it’s astonishing, but also enlightening, that some people seek to justify it.

Interestingly, I see increasing instances of drivers in that slow-moving/standstill traffic refusing to let the queue-jumpers into the line.

And when they try it with a truck, they get a dose of truck-horn.

Ben Mac wondered why people were beeping at him when he did it, well now he knows.

I still cant believe some one actually admitted doing that. Its part of the problem of driving in Australia and road rage issues. For some one to actually get satisfaction by pissing another road user off for no reason at all is piss weak and shows he must have some real issues to deal with.

Try doing that in Europe next time your over there and see what response you get.

“Want to have some real fun? Travel down the parkway till you see some knob flying down the right hand lane at about 130km/h. Pull into the right lane to overtake the car in front (there’s always at least one)when the knob is about 200mtrs behind. The overtake at the slowest speed possible. It’s both law abiding yet strangely satisfying as you p*ss-off the knob that thinks it’s cool to kill themselves and others. Try it – tell them I sent you.

Comment by BerraBoy68 — 7 March, 2008 @ 7:17 pm “

Mate you must be a wanker. This sort of behaviour is far worse then the guy doing a 130k down the dual lane straight parkway. Your probably the type that speeds up when some one tries to overtake you or close the gap stopping some one from entering your lane in front of you.

Wake up to yourself dickhead.

On Anzac PDE traffic has never stretched back far enough to block the previous intersection. and the final merging section just before the roundabout is very short, so to have two lines of traffic at an almost standstill, then trying to merge in a bout 5 metres, then turn left into a small gap, is actually slower than if the traffic just keeps left, and procedes as fast as possible forward.

The traffic can’t move any faster in two lanes than one when it eventually has to all merge into one spot.

“It’s not that everyone waiting patiently in the left lane hasn’t thought of cruising past, they’ve just decided with would be obnoxious, and also slow up the movement of traffic when they are forced to ‘merge’ into a line that is at a standstill.”

But if an even number of cars were in both lanes, the traffic would move faster and the left lane wouldn’t stretch back for 10kms!!!

Want to have some real fun? Travel down the parkway till you see some knob flying down the right hand lane at about 130km/h. Pull into the right lane to overtake the car in front (there’s always at least one)when the knob is about 200mtrs behind. The overtake at the slowest speed possible. It’s both law abiding yet strangely satisfying as you p*ss-off the knob that thinks it’s cool to kill themselves and others. Try it – tell them I sent you.

Deliberately driving dangerously with the sole goal to antagonise another driver – nice one.

You’re no better than the ‘knob’ who you wish to obstruct and slow down.

I cordially invite anyone to get out of their car for a chat with me next time I pull out to slow them down to the speed limit.

Yeah, right…

If we take the “queue jumpers” whinge to the furthest point, it would mean that in the drive from my one lane driveway to the one lane entrance to a carpark anywhere, I would be queue jumping if I were to pass any car on any multi laned road anywhere.

I think not.

The left turn, in fact the whole traffic arrangement, at the top of Anzac Pde is proof that some planner somewhere should have stayed home the day it was conceived.

Special G – So drivers thinking the speed limit doesn’t apply to them and running red lights doesn’t piss off other drivers?? I’d much rather slow some moron down to the actual speed limit than see the carnage they’ve caused to innocent people further down the road by speeding through intersections. For infor, I’ve had to deal with the follow-on carnage twice.

I’d like to know how you’d deal with Fckwit in Kambah last week (on Boddington) who wasn’t only intent on doing about 80 though a school zone, he overtook several other cars to do so. Sure you can take the licence plate and call the cops but that’s all too late by the time someones been rear-ended or worse.

I cordially invite anyone to get out of their car for a chat with me next time I pull out to slow them down to the speed limit.

Exactly right Special G and Jemmy. It’s not queue jumping. It’s driving the way the road was intened to be driven.

Special G has it on one. Single lane at 80kmh comes to chokepoint at 40kmh. They put an extra lane so two cars can go through, then merge gracefully as they accelerate back to 80. It reduces the impact on the single lane. Otherwise, the whole length of single lane is effectively at 40kmh.

I agree entirely Madocci. People say that driving in sydney city is stressful compared to canberra but I much prefer the former. People in Canberra change lanes in order to get places quicker than everyone else. In Sydney people change lanes out of necessity which means that other people are willing to let them in.

If Canberra had sydney’s eastern distributor, all the entry points would be a stand still in peak hour because no one would let them in! Instead, its a very polite orderly one car each lane – even though the main road has right of way (its not a merge).

This seems a to be a particularly Canberra cultural thing to me. I haven’t experienced it in any other city in Australia. If there are two lanes, they should be used to reduce the length of the line and ease flow down the line. In Canberra for some reason it is seen as rude. What if you were a visitor to Canberra and don’t realise the rudeness of it? Its actually rude to not let people in. They could have made a mistake and not known the road. that’s not very polite to visitors to our city! Also, I have German friends and friends who are Aussies who lived in Germany for years – I hear it is very culturally acceptable to push in no matter what the circumstances are. Its not seen as rude, just the norm.
The best way to summarise, would be to use the tried and true Ricky Lake phrase “don’t hate the player man, hate the game”.

I think it’s attitudes on the roads like Berraboys that causes road rage. Deliberately doing something to piss another driver off.

Round-a-bouts work like this people. They put two lanes in so in any one gap 2 cars can go through. If the cars are all queing in one lane only one car can go through in a gap. This is to promote greater traffic flow.

For those who que all the way back to block the second lane “because it’s rude to que jump” – learn to drive.

I am referring to situations where the second lane merges with the first – not where the second lane ends.

Under circumstances where the latter applies, I can see how that might be considered queue jumping. But under the former, it is the way the roads are supposed to work and those who think otherwise should stick to walking.

The watch for pedestrian signs will protect you, and you can shake your fist at anyone who dares to walk past you.

Going up Anzac pde towards the war memorial roundabout, the two left hand lanes become one right at the top. This lane can only turn left. Most people are wanting to go left, and when it is busy and traffic is very congested, Most people keep to the left lane, which moves along very slowly.

Some twits fly past in the right lane, then look surprised when noone wants to let them back in.

Rude.

Sepi, 2 lanes means you can overtake someone. It doesn’t matter what time of the day it is. You don’t have to sit behind someone on 2 lanes, if you don’t want to.

When there is a line of traffic almost at a standstill in the left lane, it is not ’smart’ to zoom past in the right and then try to force your way in at the top.

We’re taking about all cars in the right hand lane, and overtaking in the left. Would you consider that also rude remembering the rule “Keep left unless overtaking”?

Queue Jumpers!

When there is a line of traffic almost at a standstill in the left lane, it is not ‘smart’ to zoom past in the right and then try to force your way in at the top. It’s just rude.

Planners put those extra lanes in so that in normal flowing traffic people could get past really slow drivers, tractors, etc. Not so that during the peak hour crawl one person can annoy everyone else.

It’s not that everyone waiting patiently in the left lane hasn’t thought of cruising past, they’ve just decided with would be obnoxious, and also slow up the movement of traffic when they are forced to ‘merge’ into a line that is at a standstill.

I try to always inch as far forward as I can so those behind ne can use the slip lanes.

My pet hates are motorcycles who zig-zag between cars to get to the front at the lights – and for th erecord I’ve both had motorbike and car licenses for over 23 yrs.

Want to have some real fun? Travel down the parkway till you see some knob flying down the right hand lane at about 130km/h. Pull into the right lane to overtake the car in front (there’s always at least one)when the knob is about 200mtrs behind. The overtake at the slowest speed possible. It’s both law abiding yet strangely satisfying as you p*ss-off the knob that thinks it’s cool to kill themselves and others. Try it – tell them I sent you.

Dr Evil, that’s what I thought and then I saw them in Adelaide too. Can anyone comment on other states?

This is canberra Aeek, there are more explanatory road signs here than people.

The GIVE WAY TO PEDESTRIANS signs are damning.
Why should any driver need to be told that?
Something is very wrong with our driver education.
Don’t hit each other. Is that too hard to understand?

Re: the new line at the supermarket – I would generally give someone in front of me the chance to take it first unless they are seconds away from being served anyway.

Nevertheless, your analogy is a more accurate one BenMac.

Exactly right Dr Evil. I overtook in the left lane.

When in line at the supermarket checkout, do you line up behind the 5 people already there, or use the avaliable walking space to jump to the front ?

That’s not what we’re saying at all Maelinar. To use the same example, you’re saying that if you were in a line at the supermarket, waiting patiently, that if another checkout opened up, you wouldn’t go into that line, and be first, because it would be unfair to the people in front of you (if they hadn’t seen it first). Pull your head out. People like you and Ant are just upset that you didn’t think of the same thing first, and you’re sitting in a line going nowhere.

I can’t understand why people go through those roundabouts in the right lane, I don’t recall seeing any signs or road markings that indicate the left lane is for turning traffic only.

So, given that one of the most basis road rules is to “keep left unless overrtaking”, it would appear the queue jumpers are the only ones driving legally in that scenario……

Can those stuck in a queue tell me what that second lane is intended for……..scenery?

Your supermarket analogy is a poor one Mael – there clearly is one line and the intention always is that there is one line.

There are two lanes before, during and after such roundabouts and intersections for a reason. They are absolutely not for people to jump in and scream past traffic – but people who simply use the space and travel at normal speed should not be pigeon holed in with the rest of them.

I can only say again, if everyone made use of the two lanes then the perception of queue jumping wouldn’t be a problem.

I refer once again to the traffic light comparison – is it queue jumping to use a free lane that has appeared just before traffic lights if there are four or five cars in the left lane and none in the right? Of course it isn’t.

There is no difference whatsoever between that and the lanes in a roundabout.

Traffic building up ahead, whether it is seen or not, means that using both lanes will reduce the length of the traffic line – which is the intention of the planners.

People like you Ant – well, I hope you enjoy sitting there in your car shaking your fist like an angry idiot as I calmly jump your queue.

Using the right lane to get in front of other traffic at a roundabout would be legitimate the those in the right lane were turning right or going straight, using that lane to cut people off when you turn left is not.

Ant is on the money.
Dear Queue jumping %#$ers if you merged sensibly the entire traffic flow would be faster, everyone would be less stressed and your chances of being badly injured when you try your stunt beside a truck are reduced.

Regarding the back-end bingles, I was taught by my driving instructor that being able to see the bottom of the tyres of the car in front of you is sufficent gap… never had a rear ender so don’t know if it is, but it’s what I do. (Obviously that’s for regular cars, and that saying doesn’t work for trucks and such)

There’s a difference between those who see the traffic building up well ahead of the intersection in the road, and join the queue to enter the roundabout, and those who see the same situation and race up the right lane.

No, you aren’t making the journey faster, nor are you hastening the flow of any other traffic than your own selfish personage.

When in line at the supermarket checkout, do you line up behind the 5 people already there, or use the avaliable walking space to jump to the front ?

This is something you’re clearly passionate about, ant, but the point is there are two lanes merging into one. I just can’t figure out why you’re upset about people using the other lane……that’s what it’s there for, to be used – to push two cars through a roundabout at a time – your argument is that only one car should go through the roundabout at a time. If you want to be pedantic, yes it’s queue jumping, but your suggestion slows the flow of traffic.

Traffic engineers have designed the two lane system for exactly this purpose…..to hasten the flow of traffic.

Also, those queue jumpers up ahead of you are actually making your journey through the roundabout faster.

Ant, with refernece to other comments, your still saying if you overtake a slower car on a 2 lane roundabout, or overtake when a road goes from 1 to 2 then back to 1 lane, despite whether it’s through traffic lights or a roundabout? All I can say is that you’re what’s wrong with drivers in Canberra. You’re all sheep. Bahhh!

It’s interesting to see the queue-jumpers justifying themselves. Pushing ahead of other people stuck in the same line of traffic, and slowing down the entire line by forcing their way back into the line, having overtaken a few cars.

I notice sometimes trucks straddling the 2 lanes, to stop them.

So what if it’s not illegal? Queue jumping in general is not illegal, but it’s low and ignorant and selfish.

Sure thing, Duke.

How about this report.

“In Vietnam, long considered home to some of the deadliest roads in Asia, the government is finally taking a stand. This year, motorbike helmets will become compulsory.

Since 2001, 11,000 to 13,000 people have died annually in traffic accidents. More than 80% of the accidents involved motorbikes. Statistics show that only 1.4% of motorbike drivers were wearing helmets at the time of the accidents.“

From the World Health Organisation:

Road accidents are a major public health problem in Asia and the Pacific, with some 10 million people severely injured or killed annually on the region’s roads, the World Health organization (WHO) has warned.

The Asia-Pacific region accounts for about 60% of global road deaths, despite having only 16% of the world’s vehicles. Road deaths jumped by nearly 40% in Asia between 1987 and 1995 – while in developed nations, they fell by about 10% because of better safety measures.

The best example of driving in the world comes from Thailand (particularly Bangkok) and Vietnam.

In those countries they fit 20 times the number of cars on their roads as Canberra would see on its worst days and yet the traffic moves beautifully…….even when no traffic lights are present.

The reason for this is they make use of every inch of available road, are happy to let people in front and have a freakish 6th sense for every other vehicle in their vicinity.

Despite all the traffic, ‘road rage’ is a completely foreign concept for the average Thai or Viet driver/rider.

Jemmy,
Interesting point. I would say it was more likely that my friends were p platers, therefore it was easier to make them pay for their own damages as well as the others, simply because they didn’t know any better. Yes, I’m a tad cynical about road patrols!
By the guy behind you edging up to your car, he was effectively reducing the speed and shock of the impact. I’m not sure that the reduction in damage would be enough to warrant the risk of it causing more damage though???

jemmy, I can believe that the concept would work of avoiding the slam – what I can’t believe is that this guy had enough time and calmness to come up with that plan and then put it to fruition. The car doing 60kmph would have to have been reasonably close to be able to judge that it wasn’t going to stop.

What was the reason given for this person ploughing into a bunch of stopped cars doing 60? drunk? brakes failed?

@jemmy – remember those old ball pendulums that were in every doctors and social guidance counsellors office in the 80’s ?

Same concept, you were one of the middle balls.

Qbn, your friends aren’t telling you all the details, so I still say stationary cars aren’t liable. This is why: I was the 2nd of 3 stationary cars when no. 3 was slammed into by a car doing 60kmh. My boot was smashed, bonnet dented, car in front’s rear bumper was slightly damaged by me. Get the drift? Diminishing impacts as you go along the line. For someone to hit 5 cars and cause damage either they were absolutely flying, or the 5 cars were doing something ‘naughty’, like tailgating up to a stop light and didn’t have their brakes applied.

Incidentally, here’s one to discuss. The guy behind saw the bozo coming in his rear view mirror and edged up to us so we were touching front and back bumpers. He said later this would diminish the damage as there would be no ‘slam’ effect. True or false? I still don’t know to this day.

RuffnReady – the bar ordering you speak off pisses me off, absolutely. Apples and oranges though. The “queue jumping” referred to by Ant is well within the road rules, and as I indicated earlier, was very likely the intent of the road planners. It’s just that prissy little public servants feel that just because they’re in a line that it’s the right line to be in.

I find it funny that you refer to gap leavers blocking a turning lane and that being absurd given that having everyone sit in one lane despite there being two can often achieve the very same thing.

I agree with ant on the queue jumping, and I bet the dissenters are the sorts of %^$^& who think that it’s okay to order their drink if the =y catch the bartender’s attention, regardless of how many people were at the bar before them…

Maelinar – queue jumping is NOT a crime, but it should be. IMHO, queue jumping is the most basic disrespect for other people, and a sign of the decay of our society. /rant

As for the gap leaving, it is absurd in heavy traffic conditions and lanes where it will block a turning lane.

As for mobile phones and driving, there is ample evidence to show that driving and talking on your mobile is euivalent to medium-LEVEL DRINK DRIVING in risk. So why aren’t the penalties as severe?

Sorry Kennardly, you’re right – it is relevant.
The bingle occurred at a set of traffic lights, where the lights were red. So yes, it did involve cars stopped.

To expand on that, both at lights and roundabouts, both lanes are there to be used in case the traffic comes to a halt as a result of something after the intersection.

If everyone sticks to one lane, the line of traffic snakes back twice as much as it would if people used both lanes. Prevents lines across intersections, driveways etc.

If you idiots that want to protect your precious little queue so much simply filtered out into both lanes (de-merging I guess), there wouldn’t be a problem.

bd84 – your parkway comparison is completely different to the scenarios offered up by Ant.

ant – are you telling me that if you’re heading in a long line of traffic down a single lane road, and come to a set of traffic lights where it splits into two lanes for say fifty metres either side of the lights, that everyone should stay in a nice little queue in one of the lanes?

What utter crap.

Qbn, you haven’t said whether the 5 car bingle involved stopped cars or not – thats the crucial difference.

LOL Good call Thumper 🙂
About 5 years ago a friend of mine was liable for damage to the car in front after being in the middle of a 5 car bingle – incidentally, another friend was the car at the back and she was only liable for damage to the car in front of her, not all of them.
You are obliged to take responsible and reasonable steps on the road to avoid collisions. I interpret responsible and reasonable steps as including leaving a gap between your car and the car in front in the event of a collision behind you. At any rate, I’d rather not get minimise any damage incurred in a collision for convenience factors, and also the fact that my car is difficult (and pricey) to fix.

hallenbeck, maybe we can toss the BMW loser a note nominating him for the shame file…….

If you’re rear-ended while stopped and you are pushed into the vehicle in front, it is not your fault and you’re not liable. I don’t know where you got this bizarre notion from, but it’s happened to me and there was no problem with either the cops or the insurance company.

And with the “temporary” lane (eh? It’s a damn lane, there to be used), why haven’t you sheep moved into it and allowed other people to close up behind you? Those who are blocking the subsequent merge are guilty of an offence and would be liable in a collision: the car in front in a merge has right of way.

Really, half the problems in the ACT are because people are hung up on rules and ignore the primary directive: keep the traffic moving.

Ant – I bet you are a public servant, with union negotiated working conditions – and everybody being equal, and everybody at the ASO4 level being paid the same… gosh….

I’m not, I choose not to be equal, and believe that some of us are more equal than others… If there is a gap, I’ll take it. If you are being a sheep, then you probably wont notice…

“…he nerve of the motorcyclist, making the tradie stop focussing on his mobile phone and start paying attention to the road…”

Fair call. Perhaps I was being unfair to the tool on the bike by not pointing out what a tool the tradie was being. Then again, I would’ve thought the fact that I mentioned it was a tradie ute, people would understand it was two erratic road users I was referring to, not just the motorcyclist.

Sh*ts me to tears though whenever I see people on their phones whilst driving. On a daily basis I see numerous drivers unable to indicate when turning or changing lanes, veering dangerously and having to swerve back to correct before hitting a gutter or oncoming traffic because they’re on their phone.
Also shits me when I see d*ckheads with headphones on while driving (but that’s another thread altogether).

But, honestly, how many times have you been travelling in the right hand lane on a dual carriage way and checked your right hand rearview mirror and/or blind spot for traffic? I would take it as a given that no-one, regardless of how small their brain may be, is going to try to pass me on my right.

Shanefos I share your outrage. The nerve of the motorcyclist, making the tradie stop focussing on his mobile phone and start paying attention to the road.

A saying about removing the log in one’s own eye before the stick in another’s comes to mind…

I’ve been reading these posts with interest and would like to give my POV.
Leaving a gap – I always leave a gap of at least one car length. I do this because if someone rear-ends me (as they invariably will one day) I really don’t want to run straight up the back of the guy in front of me, leaving me liable for the damage to his car as well as doing additional damage to my car. If people are going to whinge and bitch about having to wait an extra sixty seconds to turn left, they should really get a grip.
However, if there is significant traffic and I can see I will be stopped near a turning lane, I will always move to the centre of the lane and close the gap between my car and the car in front AFTER the person behind me has almost come to a stop. I don’t do this to be annoying, I do this because then at least I know there is very little chance they’re going to run up my a###e.
Using the clear lane on roundabouts – are you serious Ant? Do you really sit behind other cars when a temporary lane breaks on the road, even though it may be completely clear? If that’s the case, I’m afraid in my opinion you are the one who is unnecessarily holding up traffic. Everyone has equal opportunity to utilise the temporary lane, and if people don’t use it that’s their prerogative. It does not constitute queue jumping though.
The purpose of having a second lane on roundabouts is to ease congestion and avoid people using a single lane. Informally, it is also often used to pass cars that travel slower than you around corners. If your logic was correct Ant, there would be no need for the second lane because the second lane would facilitate queue jumping which I’m not sure if it’s illegal, but in any case it is just bad form.
Similarly, a temporary lane on a roadway is there for two purposes – to ease congestion by spreading vehicles out and to allow faster cars to pass. I’m sorry Ant, I just don’t understand your logic!

Saw a great example of responsible motorcycling yesterday afternoon on William-Hovell Drive, heading to Belconnen, just past Bindubi St.
Bloke in a tradie ute in the right hand lane next to me on his phone, nearly veered off onto the median strip.
Responsible motorcyclist comes roaring up behind us, sits on the ute’s tail for a few seconds and then passes on the right!
Next time you drive up William-Hovell Drive, take a look at how narrow that little strip of bitumen is between the outer edge of the right hand lane and the grass/stubble/gravel!
My first thought was of those “be aware of motorcyclists” ads that used to be on telly – the ones with Doug Mulray saying, “Whatever you do, don’t ride us off”.
Motorcyclists have always been good with DIY projects…

bunnycoat, I saw that bloke in the BMW (a 7 series sedan, right?) do the very same thing this morning (Thurs), roar up the right-hand lane and barge into the line of traffic at the front of the queue. it gives me the shits, so many BMW drivers act like they’re superior. problem is, i drive a bmw too (it is 20 years old though)

Coming off the Parkway heading for the GDE I have to be in the left lane at the lights, stuck behind the queue turning right to Civic. Almost noone uses the right lane for that. Hopefully that’s gone now?

it’s pretty hard to get much poorer than absolutely terrible.

Well first of all you should leave a decent gap between your stopped car and the vehicle in front.. if you get rear ended and you rear end the car in fron you’re liable. However i’m one of those considerate drivers who normally make an exception when near turning lanes, i’ll get fairly close to the car infront and move to the centre of the lane as possible.

As for queue jumpers, they are giving me the absolute shits atm. On the parkway in the morning the left lane for lady dedman drive is chockers and the morons who try skipping the traffic in the right lane then forcing their way in is rediculous, the guy in a blue magna had himself a problem last week when I didn’t let him in ;] also further up the road at the interchange when people take the belco exit then try and force their way into the city bound traffic at up the road, come aross two in the last week who block the other lane. Then there’s the woman in the white forester yesterday at the form one lane on bindubi street who thought that everyone else was staggered for the merge but since she was so great she didn’t have to give way to people already at the merge and forced her way past as I tried to avoid the accident. Then there’s motorcyclists.. they think they can fit everywhere so can take any route they want, worst offenders of the lot.

ant you’re right, they are queue jumpers and i don’t let them in – oh the indignant looks you receive from them when you refuse to let them in too! that’s when *i* laugh on the inside…even though inevitably some softie behind me lets them in.

you’ve got to laugh about everyone’s driving foibles expressed so clearly in this post – we really are all such a bunch of assholes on the road LOL

So all those trough-feeding piggies don’t think they’re queue-jumping?

I fail to see how it can be anything else. You’re in a long line of traffic, going very slowly and even stopping, on a one lane road.

It might be from Qbn, it might be Majura road. All of a sudden, for a very short distance, usually involving a roundabout, there’s 2 lanes. this is to accommodate the roundabout. I think it’s bad design, but there you go.

And all the greedy little piggies, stuck in that long line of traffic, jump in to the extra lane, and overtake all the other cars. The other cars then have to let the little piggies in, ahead of them. they were behind, now they’re ahead, but everyone is still going the same speed, in that long line of traffic.

Yes, Benmac and others, you ARE queue jumpers. You are slowing down the line of traffic, and you are jumping ahead in the queue. And that is why cars beep at you, and sometimes they won’t let you back in. You are not legitimatly merging, joining the line of traffic. You were in the line of traffic, and you took advantage to jump ahead of other people in that line. You are queue jumpers.

Just go around them and pull into the gap next time.

(assuming some ipod wearing princess with a three car gap in front of her hasn’t blocked off that other lane)

@Special G – i’ve seen that video before, would be handy for keeping away those pesky window washers! (nah, not really – I have a soft spot for those dudes)

@Kennardly – an earlier poster is promoting the gap saying it gives you room to move in the event of a rear-end collision. Can you imagine peak hour traffic with every driver embracing the gap……and the traffic reached for miles and miles and miles

@the others – when two lanes merge that front spot is fair game

Gap Leavers!!! I’m more intruigued about why they do it more than cranky about it. What would happen if everyone did it?????!!!! Same with the roundabout issue – thinking laterally it really does help with the flow of traffic but it only works if a small percentage does it, otherwise it would be chaos.

Back to the gap leavers, are you seriously telling me that people do it so that they can move forward in case they judge that someone won’t be able to stop in time behind them??? Could you really do that???? Has anyone ever actually pulled that off??????????????????!!!!

Captain Kirk, taking an alternative road isn’t queue jumping, thats using your navigation skills.

And qualifies you to work for ASIO, according to that post last week. Congrats!

I agree Cameron. If the road is there, use it. I was still doing the speed limit when I went passed the cars. If a single lane goes to 2 lanes and then 1 lane again, you’d be stupid to just sit there while a whole lane goes to waste. It’s just like overtaking a slower car on a 2 lane road.

Ant, if you were on a 2 lane road and the traffic was crawling along, would you just sit behind them while the second lane is unused just because they were in front of you first? Probably not.

This reminds me of a story the Sandman used to tell, but it was about queues at supermarkets, not traffic. If i may paraphrase (forgive me, Sandy fans), he pointed out that if you leave a little gap in front of yourself, no matter where you are in the queue, then you hold the power over everyone behind you. It’s a little power trip. For twenty seconds, this person (or car) in front of you is feeling like they’re the boss if the queue.

Let them have their little moment of glory…. it’s not going to bust your poofer valve is it? (heheh what a silly expression)

what about the crazy slow down antics at the speed cameras on the parkway? NOW that is scary and dangerous!

Captain Kirk, taking an alternative road isn’t queue jumping, thats using your navigation skills.

For those who like to go and knock on other peoples windows check out this link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQbHnLSasfQ

If that is Queue Jumping, then I am guilty of it –

Every morning, I go to the office in Dickson, then go to the other office at the Airport. I drive down Limestone Ave, then Fairbairn Ave, instead of staying with the sheep as they wait to stop at the Morshead Drive lights, and Fairbairn Ave Airport roundabout, I dive through Duntroon till I hit Marshead Drive, then I fly through the roundabouts – All the while, the sheep I left, now have to give way to little old me!!! Mha Ha Ha Ha….

God, I love the drive to work.

Ant, if the person speeds up excessively and bullies their way into a line, that’s queue jumping.

Otherwise it’s making use of the road that’s there. What, you think the planners put the temporary extra lane in there for fun?

Naturally the two lanes need to merge again, but if people would merge rather than stop and stuff around, then the temporary alleviation of the traffic build up thanks to the extra lane wouldn’t be offset by the inability of drivers to merge lanes without stopping.

Benmac, you’re saying that the single lane road became a 2 lane for a while, and then went back into 1 lane?

That is definitely queue jumping! There’s a line of cars, with no where else to go, and if you jump into the temporary lane, you are jumping ahead of the others on the same road. You are all heading the same place, you’re not turning off or leaving the road. Everyone wants to go the saem way, but you are jumping the queue.

And when the temporary lane has to re-merge with the original lane, then all the traffic slows down, and often stops. This happens daily at the main roundabout in front of the airport.

It is funny when they go spako because you reverse parallel parked in their big gap!!!

Ant, it isn’t queue jumping. Queue jumping is like driving past everyone on Parkes Way heading home and pushing their way in right before the Interchange. I drove in a second lane, which then formed into 1 lane. Not queue jumping. I believe that if people used this second lane and then formed again the traffic would run better, instead of one long queue.

I was astonished yesterday when a BMW driver (obviously with a VERY small ‘one’) pushed his cheeky nose in front of me in a line of cars outside the Chinese Embassy waiting to turn left onto Commonwealth Avenue in morning peakhour. No opportunity to give him the small finger as he was too busy on his mobile to notice.

No, Thumper, in the greater scheme of things it probably doesn’t matter that much, I merely point out that leaving massive gaps proves just as annoying as people who don’t indicate, people who queue jump (which is apparently a CRIME, not just an irritation), people who can’t fathom the complexities of a roundabout, people who can’t drive in a straight line while talking on the phone and slow drivers hogging the right lane.

None of these things really matter, we like to say, but with so many more cars on the road now some motorists need to adjust their driving habits – this includes not impeding the flow of traffic by blocking lanes.

If you ever find yourself travelling from Fyshwick over Hindmarsh drive at around 5pm, my problem with blocking lanes might become more apparent to you.

BenMac, that is called queue jumping. See a few posts further up. sadly, it’s rife on the roundabouts around the airport. There’s a vast line of traffic, and these selfish types basically use the temporary 2nd lane to jump ahead of others in the line. Plainly they feel they are more important than anyone else.

As the 2 lanes turn back into 1, everyone has to slow down as the push-ins now want to merge.

What I once found wierd was on Majura Rd outside brand depot. I was heading to Fyshwick and came to the first roundabout. Every car was in the right lane to go through, with the left lane completely empty. So I drove in the left lane and past about 25 cars. Strangely I got beeped for doing this. Why would you sit in a huge line when the lane next to you is totally empty?

What gets me is people turning right at a roundabout, indicating left before they have even got past the first/straight-ahead exit.
You’re sitting opposite them, thinking they’re going to go straight ahead so you head off into the roundabout, but then they keep coming round to the right, even though they’ve had their freakin’ left indicator on since before they even started turning!
This has happened to me a number of times at the roundabouts to and from the airport/city.
Most frustrating thing is these people have the audacity to beep you for getting in their way!
I’d understand if they were indicating right and I drove in front of them, but when they’re indicating that they’re exiting to go straight ahead and then they turn right…

i try to maximise the space behind me if i’m in the left lane, tom allow traffic behind to access slip lanes, but i get annoyed at people who seem to damnd i speed up and accelerate to a stop so they can – so fark’em then, i just creep more slowly… a little patience can be rewarded. arrogance can go fornicate with its good self.

one driving practice i adopt relates to this – especially as i drive a manual – in that i will coast towards a light that has just turned amber/red in front of me and allow the engine to do some braking and to save fuel by not keeping on driving towards where i know i’m going to have to stop anyway. i am continually stunned by drivers racing past me, obviously still on the accelerator, then having to brake hard and stop before the light turns green – often changing out of my lane behind me to go past me in another lane. i secretly enjoy moving past them with free momentum and continue to drive ahead of them in my lane while they huff at the slow pace of the cars they’ve chosen to move in behind. so many idiots, so few bullets…

Queue jumping is a crime no matter where it is done, no matter the outcome.

I appreciate the people who do that – it forces a break in the stream of traffic and lets a few more people turn also.

Even more annoying is when people at the War Memorial roundabout go into the right lane, which is always empty, and doing a full loop of the roundabout so they can avoid the queue to turn left into Limestone.

Sounds like someone is just jealous.

Good on them I say… just their way of minimising your waiting time by utilising open space.

I find it annoying also. The reason it is annoying is because you see the opening and change gears and speed accordingly, only to be forced to stop because the person in from of you decides either they won’t let you through, or that they are just going to be plain stupid.

Even more annoying is when people at the War Memorial roundabout go into the right lane, which is always empty, and doing a full loop of the roundabout so they can avoid the queue to turn left into Limestone.

I try to make a point by pointing at the drivers, which always draws attention to the self-important perpetrators. This is usually met with embarassment or a peice of paper blocking thier face, as if they were a child molester walking to court.

This happens all the time along Northbourne, pretty annoying. I tend to move over to the inside of the lane to give a bit of room for any turners (after checking for motorbikes of course), but then some prat pulls up behind me on the outside of the lane and blocks the way. Bah!

Speaking of crap driving, I’ve read on this site a few times about people indicating right on a roundabout when they’re going left/straight. I saw it for the first time a couple weeks ago at the gridlocked roundabout outside Duntroon onto the Monaro highway, with a car indicating they’d go right, but they went straight. We’d all stopped to let them do the loop, so all traffic ground to a halt for them (backed up all the way to Russell offices)… I’ve never been so dumbfounded at someone’s behaviour on the road as I was then.

@AD, I had a good laugh yesterday at Glenloch when I did the 40km/h through there. Car tailgating me the whole way and roared off at the first chance. Met him at the next set of lights to turn. Always a good feeling.

Andrew would love you guys 😉

i actually agree with duke, i find it irritating when people do this as well. although there are so many morons on the road, i try to not let them all get to me. i would never get out of my car and tap on their window – what if they had an uzi in their glovebox!? hehe

Yup I am with thumper.

Its like these people who speed and drive like maniacs to get those lights 15 seconds quicker than the would otherwise. Who cares.

I’m with Thumper.
Someone needs therapy.

The button in front of your noggin, otherwise known as the car horn is built for the purpose of alerting other drivers.

Once you have alerted them, indicate for them to roll forward so you can get through – its rocket science, but as you are a rocket scientist, I would expect you to be able to use your initiative from here on in.

Yes, this is a big problem at the Russell Roundabout, where traffic coming from airport want to get into the slip lane to turn left over Kings Ave Bridge. Trucks and cars are leaving several carlengths between them and the vehicle in front, so traffic banks up past the East Basin entrance. They actually need to make that slip lane longer, so as to bleed off soem of the traffic being blocked by those heading for Parkes Way.

I don’t know if it’s cud-chewing stupidity or bloody-mindedness. I notice some cars (and I do this too) squeezing forward and to the right, so people can fit into the slip lane. I always give them a wave. But they’re a rare encounter.

I’m with Duke on this one!

I can’t stand having cars block the turning lanes when they have 3+ meters of space to move forward.
I am always personally alert of what cars behind me are doing, and if I see and indicator, I will squeeze to the side of the lane and move all the way forward to let someone turn.

I guess all this comes down to how alert and aware of their surroundings Canberra drivers are, but there doesn’t seem to be much of that at the best of times…

cough rant cough At its worst i’ve actually had to get out of my car, tap on the window of the person in front and tell them to move up so I can turn my car into the turning lane.

Patience Grasshopper, this would be considered road rage in the courts.

I usually stop so I can just see the tyres of the car in front (Usually about 2 meters from car in front).

Not everyone stops as close or far as me, but as a level headed repsponsible driver, I note that they have done what they have and deal with it in my head.

Same as any situation on the road really.

Plenty of shit drivers, if I got angry every time I saw one, I would just give up driving as it would not be worth the stress…

Actually, your last point is exactly what my driving instructor said he always did (with the exception of the inching forward bit – he moved forward at a reasonable speed). The reason is that if someone behind you has misjudged the stopping distance, it gives you space to move forward and avoid them rear-ending you. Once they’ve stopped safely, then you can move forward to close the gaps and allow people to turn.
Neither bizarre nor pointless.