The CT has this article about the rise in Private School fees for 2009.
Looks as though private schools are going to get even more select not just through tight enrollments but also higher fees during this period of economic downturn.
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nyssa76 said :
So many nails with their heads firmly hit in that post…
I am a teacher working in the Public system. I provide materials for my students, despite the fact that they are explicitly asked to provide them for themselves. From experience, if I wait for them to get their own gear (exercise books, pencils, pens, erasers, display book etc), I get about half the class (the good kids) with their materials by about week 2 (about 6-8 students will turn up to lesson 1 with all the prescribed materials anyhow). I might get 2 more per week until the last 6-8 students, who are simply unable to get the materials themselves (for whatever reason, but usually they cannot be bothered). So I buy up big during the back to school sales ($50 bucks or so saves me months of hair-pulling, and I ain’t got too much to spare). There are several kids at my school that bring nothing but the clothes they are wearing to school – so I provide pens, pencils etc too (though I insist on a swap of a personal item until they return mine, and I usually get “why?”). Noticeably, the kids that don’t have the equipment struggle to cope with class work and are usually the ones with parents uninterested in their kids (yes, being unprepared and poorly resourced seems to go hand in hand with crappy, uninterested parenting – my own anecdotal evidence).
My two (young) children will most likely go to through private schooling, not because I think it is any BETTER (in terms of education outcomes/delivery), but because I know first-hand what teachers (and other students) have to put up with in terms of behaviour, and, more importantly, working in an elective area, I know that a majority of parents are *unwilling* to support electives by paying “voluntary contributions” (which are simply part of the bill at a private school) – this has a direct impact on what the school is able to teach all students (last I heard VCs ran at around 2-3 students per class – but we are not allowed to know that now). I am willing to participate in my children’s education, I am willing to support their schooling – even financially. The simple truth is that kids need support, input and involvement from parents in their educations, or they will get very little out of it (and put even less in).
I believe every student is entitled to the same level of funding from Federal coffers, and that as taxpayers, every single one of us is responsible to funding education in exactly the same way as any other infrastructure or service provided by the Commonwealth (ie “us”). That investment in education pays off in other ways. I am happy that my tax get used to support both private and public education, and quite happy for people to pay an additional amount to have their kids go to private schools.
Bah – I’ve gone on long enough…
When the Catholic school in Goulburn had toilets that ‘broke down’ and was required to close down until fixed, the local Govt school couldn’t fit all the kids. However, that was in the 50/60’s.
Nowdays there are plenty of closed down Govt schools for the CEO to use in the eventuality that theirs are ‘closed’. They might not be as well resourced but a classroom’s a classroom. You just have to deal with it.
I’m also interested in the figures, primarily as they focus on Victoria and not Canberra or Australia. I’d be more interested if they showed both systems funding over the past 10-20 years.
BerraBoy – J.P., K.N., C.B., S.J.??
imhotep said :
Thanks imhotep!
BerraBoy68 said :
This, from ABC News, August 20, 2007, (via the Association of Independent Schools, so make of it what you will).
“Report ‘dispels myth’ that govt funding favours private schools
“A new report into the costs of private education has found that parents who send their children to independent schools are saving taxpayers $5 billion a year…
…The report [from Victoria] found that for 2004 to 2005, a public school student received just over $10,000 in government funding compared to $5,500 for a student going to a non-government school.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/20/2009423.htm
nyssa76 said :
Lets just say she started sleeping with one of her bosses while I was still going out with her (needless to say as soon as I found out I left – and good riddance). He was a tosser anyway – he’d turn up to parties empty handed and drink from other peoples eskies without their permission (a good sign of a knob). They ended up getting married, he died and she got his job, even though she was only working part time. You can’t tell me there were no better qualified people around. If we ever meet I’ll tell you her name. But if you can throw me some initials, I’ll let you know if you’re right.
I think what happened to you at Signadou sucks. I was offered a mature entry spot there back in the late 80’s. I’m actually glad I ended up going to the ANU to do a BA instead.
BerraBoy, I still would have reported her. I’m very interested in who she is. I have some ideas though.
When I went through Signadou, my cohort were told only on our last day as students that if we weren’t Catholic, we wouldn’t get many job offers and primarily we couldn’t teach RE.
YapYap, I’m not going to read through all those links just to find some evidence that Parkes’ view of public education was in support of something similar to our public education today. I had a glance, however, and nowhere did I see Parkes mention that these schools would be free.
I’m not against public education – I was educated at public and private schools. What I am against is a black and white view of the world that private education is somehow to the detriment of the public education system. All you’ve done is jump on some comments made over 100 years ago by people who established the government schooling system and lazily (and incorrectly) presume that this meant they were against private schools.
I think you should stick to your quack LaborNet journals.
nyssa76 said :
On a single child basis, does a Gov’t student get funded less than a Private school student? Seriously, I wasn’t aware this was the case. I do firmly believe though that the Government should fund both Gov’t and non-gov’t students equally on a per student basis.
On the poor Gov’t teachers I’ve known, I have thought about reporting the teachers involved but it was a long time ago now. One of them (an ex-girlfriend) gave each player in her netball team (all Yr 7) champagne at an end of year BBQ that she held for them at her home. This was despite a couple of the parents making comment when they dropped off their daughters at the BBQ that no alcohol was to be at the party. The teacher in question assured the parents there would be no alcohol but once the parents left they were given the champagne. I asked her what the hell she thought she was doing she said “it’s not as if they’re going to tell their parents.” That was about 13 years ago and the teacher in question is now a principle – a position she seems to have gained through pure nepotism in the ACT Education system. Chances are you know her due to her position and role so I’ll say no more.
The catholic issue you raised is odd and does sound to me like discrimination. When I was at Marist very few of the teachers there actually taught RE so I’m not sure what the issue is. Actually, a couple of those that did teach RE have now been proven to be pedophiles but that’s another matter… Also when I looked into a career change and a move into teaching early in ’08 I was advised I would have no problem getting into Uni anywhere (I already have a BA and MEngSc.) to complete either a DipEd or BEd and that I could pick up theology units “later down the track”, as this “wasn’t a pre-requisite for a teaching position in catholic schools”. That said, I was looking at Primary and I know you teach Secondary so maybe that’s the difference.
monomania said :
There is some truth in this. If we can afford to send our kids to a private school, many of us do -thus reducing the pressure on government to improve the situation in public schools.
I don’t like the fact that we have two different standards of education, any more than I like the fact that (by joining a health fund) the wealthier can afford better health care.
However, that is a political view. When it comes to family, like most parents I will do whatever I feel is in my child’s best interest. Few of us are public-spirited enough to give our child second-best in order to make a political statement.
I reiterate my point though. Private schools are not the enemy. Why shouldn’t public schools have a decent cricket pitch? Why aren’t teachers paid at a rate that recognizes their crucial role in our society? It isn’t because private schools exist. It’s because governments don’t put enough priority on education.
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imhotep said :
Why? Because people who are able too can opt their kids out of public education, governments even help them do this and more and more can and have. No longer are they as concerned about the standard of public education just their own kids education and some lobby to increase private funding, even to the extent of denigrating government schools . Quite a number of the these parents went to government schools. A significant number of government school teachers indicate their commitment to public education by sending their kids to private schools.
I-filed, it was closer to home and my child’s day care when I first started the degree (no car). I liked the look of the campus as it wasn’t the concrete jungle of UC and it had smaller tutorial sizes.
I later did my grad cert and Masters at UC.
Nyssa do you mind if I ask, why on Earth did you do your education degree at Signadou rather than UC/CCAE if you aren’t Catholic?
Berra Boy, it’s been decided for over a century that Govt Education, which is free and non-exclusive, is to be paid by Federal and State taxes.
Just because people have a choice doesn’t mean their choice should be funded, to a greater extent than the public, to pay for a system which is exclusive.
I’ve taught in the private system, with a degree in Education from Signadou. But I was told I wasn’t made permanent because I wasn’t a Catholic. I was also told I couldn’t teach RE. However, I do have enough qualifications to be an RE Coordinator in a Catholic school. Apparently it’s not discrimination under the act.
If public teachers did as you say, then report them. Especially if they are still ‘teaching’. Call Employee Relations, through Canberra Connect, and discuss it with them.
nyssa76 said :
Nyssa, my kids go to non-govt schools so why do my tax dollars have to pay for the Gov’t system? I know a couple of teachers in Gov’t school I wouldn’t feed let alone employ (a long story for another time involving them giving alcohol and cigarettes to their students) and I resent them drawing salaries from my tax, but there you go. The only choice we get in where out tax dollars are spent is when we go to the polls, and the tribe has spoken for this period. It seems the majority either have no issue with the funding of private schools or they have bigger reasons for voting in the current Gov’t that override any anger of this funding.
I didn’t say they paid more taxes, but they do pay taxes for both systems, regardless of having no children.
Yapyap et al do not pay more tax because I send my child to a private school. If I pulled them out and sent them to a public school it would probably cost them more. His education was subsidized by the working generation, why should he not contribute?
Why are private schools so popular? Why, despite all the rhetoric, was there an influx of new students to the ‘best’ private schools when the Rudd government swept into town?
It’s because for some reason we as a society are willing to accept low resourcing of public education -we simply don’t put enough value on it. If the importance of good teachers was reflected in their pay rates and if class sizes were smaller, we’d see a return on that investment within a generation.
Private schools are not the enemy, their popularity is just a symptom of the decline in resourcing for the public system -and often a convenient whipping post for those with wider agendas. (I’m not referring to you nyssa76)
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Hang on, wasn’t there an argument put forth by those for private education that they pay for public and private and it’s not fair?
The difference is tax payers without children also pay for both and don’t see a ‘return’ in their own offspring.
imhotep, I’d love to have your old job!
YapYapYap said :
You don’t have kids? You don’t even have a dog in this fight yap yap. Public school parents may have an argument that their kids are being shortchanged -but what is your problem?
Some years I have paid more than $200,000 in tax -and I’m not too happy about many of the things our tax dollars are spent on.
Somehow though, I deal with my grief. You earn good money. Get over it.
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Yapyapyap – can you define the term ‘quack education providers’? I suspect its not the education you’re railing against, but the religious motivation behind it, yes?
I send my youngest son to a Catholic School. I have no religious beliefs myself whatsoever – in fact I am a confirmed atheist – but given the choice of sending my child to ‘quack educationalists’ or putting him in the care of the government system I think I’ve made the right decision. As someone who has no kids themselves I don’t really take your bleating seriously as you don’t have any experience in the field of school selection whatsoever. If and when you do beget, I hope you put a good deal of your impressive wage (40K IN TAX! that’s only 15,000 pa less than I earn in toto)into voluntary payments at the government school you choose for your children – but I bet you don’t.
johnnycash, if you ranked ‘M’ or higher, you should have been offered an early offer at the start of Term 4. I’d be asking why, if your area (I’m assuming maths/science so please correct me) is in high demand that you weren’t offered a job.
I’m teaching across 3 subject areas next year. I’m qualified in all 3 but am teaching maths because there aren’t enough teachers in the school or system.