'Snow big deal until I actually see it!

Acton said :

OMG.
Once when the high priests and clergy had their faith challenged they accused the heretics of being in league with the Devil. Woe betide any who questioned their beliefs or offered an alternative prophecy.
The sinners and unbelievers were responsible for all natural disasters and would suffer eternal damnation unless they bowed down and obeyed the edicts of the priests, being the sole guardians of the truth. Over time the church and its priests got richer.
Today the high priests and their followers zealously protect their lucrative new creed of human global warming and accuse the (‘senior’) heretics of being in league with worst devils of the 21st century they can imagine or invoke – Alan Jones and Rupert Murdoch!
Awesome.
Verily I say brethren, hell hath no fury like a climate scientist scorned.
ROFLMseniorAO.

Yes, you are talking about beliefs. Beliefs are what should be questioned. The people who have beliefs cannot be dissuaded from those beliefs no matter how much evidence is produced.

Science is not about beliefs. Science is about thinking of why things are as they are, postulating theories about this, and then set about to learn whether that the theory is correct or incorrect.

This is why churches have beliefs, haters have beliefs, deniers have beliefs but scientists don’t. But you won’t believe this as it goes against your beliefs.

Acton said :

OMG.
Once when the high priests and clergy had their faith challenged they accused the heretics of being in league with the Devil. Woe betide any who questioned their beliefs or offered an alternative prophecy.
The sinners and unbelievers were responsible for all natural disasters and would suffer eternal damnation unless they bowed down and obeyed the edicts of the priests, being the sole guardians of the truth. Over time the church and its priests got richer.
Today the high priests and their followers zealously protect their lucrative new creed of human global warming and accuse the (‘senior’) heretics of being in league with worst devils of the 21st century they can imagine or invoke – Alan Jones and Rupert Murdoch!
Awesome.
Verily I say brethren, hell hath no fury like a climate scientist scorned.
ROFLMseniorAO.

When the leader of the Catholic Church (aka The Pope) believes in climate change you know it is a crock.

OMG.
Once when the high priests and clergy had their faith challenged they accused the heretics of being in league with the Devil. Woe betide any who questioned their beliefs or offered an alternative prophecy.
The sinners and unbelievers were responsible for all natural disasters and would suffer eternal damnation unless they bowed down and obeyed the edicts of the priests, being the sole guardians of the truth. Over time the church and its priests got richer.
Today the high priests and their followers zealously protect their lucrative new creed of human global warming and accuse the (‘senior’) heretics of being in league with worst devils of the 21st century they can imagine or invoke – Alan Jones and Rupert Murdoch!
Awesome.
Verily I say brethren, hell hath no fury like a climate scientist scorned.
ROFLMseniorAO.

chewy14 said :

Are you really trying to compare climate science with casino odds, tide charts or actuarial studies?

I personally believe that we should act on climate change from a risk management perspective, but the idea that the science behind it is anywhere near as firm as those other examples is completely wrong.

Yes, they are all based on long term study and statistics. In the case of Climate Studies, almost 160 years of direct measurement combined with thousands, even millions of years of indirect measurements.

It is exasperating beyond belief to have to argue what it all means with people who have so little clue they are even holding the document upside down (weather v climate). Or believe any charlatan who tells them what they like to hear.

This is the child’s view of the world where you are the absolute centre of the universe. What you ‘feel’ is all that counts. You feel hot everyone is hot, you feel cold everyone is cold. You don’t like what the thermometer says, smash it!

We live in a country where our leaders are a standing joke, on both sides of the fence. One more so than the other, more concerned with their crazy prejudices and vengeance than managing for the future.

Heaven help us if this is the best we can do.

rubaiyat said :

Acton said :

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?

It is the same deal as casinos can’t pick individual winners or losers, but given enough time and samples they can build their business on they win and the thousands who pass through their doors collectively lose.

Or despite the constant ups and downs of waves, ships captains bring their ships safely into port based on tide tables.

Or Insurance companies don’t know when you will die but when the population as a whole will meet their maker.

Despite these principals are easy enough, you don’t seem unable to work out the differences, and jump at the only (usually misquoted or misinterpreted) example that agrees with your prejudices and therefore is “true” whilst the thousands upon thousands of double and triple checked research results are all “faked”.

btw You do know that that article, from the usual ignorant reporters, talks about a supposed 60% reduction in solar flares which has little to no relationship to Solar radiation on the Earth. If it did all life on Earth would be totally doomed, not start an Ice Age.

Are you really trying to compare climate science with casino odds, tide charts or actuarial studies?

I personally believe that we should act on climate change from a risk management perspective, but the idea that the science behind it is anywhere near as firm as those other examples is completely wrong.

I walked up Mt Taylor yesterday (Sunday) and there was quite a bit of snow on the Brindabellas. I went up again this morning with the GoPro on headstrap so I could film it, expecting more snow and it was nearly all gone. It must have melted overnight. Very disappointing indeed.

dungfungus said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Well, that was a big disappointment. Temperatures didn’t even get below 0 for the weekend, no white stuff on the Brindabellas and what happened to the expected 90km/h winds? All the hype about a “winter vortex” fizzled into a spring thunderstorm for Canberra and actually warmed up the place in comparison to the last few weeks.
I agree, if they can’t even go close to predicting an event like this, how can they see hundreds of years into the future and say with any certainty what the air temperature is going to be?

You must be looking at a different range of mountains as Mt Franklin had the most extensive covering of snow I have seen for many years when I checked it yesterday.
I am going to walk up Mt Wanniassa this morning and I’ll take a photo and if I can work out how to post it, I will.
There was more snow last night and it can still be seen on the hills near Burra.

The snow on Mt Franklin was gone by the time I got to take the photo – should have done it yesterday.

rosscoact said :

It snowed on Saturday night in Gungahlin. There was a not thick but certainly a white fluffy covering on my roof.

Didn’t get any of that here, just plenty of hail that night.

I could see snow on what I guess would be the Cuumbuen Nature Reserve, behind Queanbeyan, on my to work this morning.

https://goo.gl/maps/tYAyr

rubaiyat said :

Alan Jones, that noblest of all men, the man who has never taken “Cash for Comments”!

He sincerely believes everything he says on behalf of his clients, no matter how much they pay him.

But he has to submit an income tax return.

It snowed on Saturday night in Gungahlin. There was a not thick but certainly a white fluffy covering on my roof.

Alan Jones, that noblest of all men, the man who has never taken “Cash for Comments”!

He sincerely believes everything he says on behalf of his clients, no matter how much they pay him.

Jardeath said :

Acton said :

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?

I don’t recall any mention of snow on bom.gov.au for the Canberra area over the weekend.

Don’t spoil a good rant with facts.

B.O.M., NASA, all the universities, and the Too Clever By Halves are all “On the take”.

Thankfully we have enough clued up seniors listening to Alan Jones, to spot what they are up to!

From my living room in Wanniassa I can see snow on the hills away to the SSE. I’d get my sighting compass and a map and figure out just what I’m looking at, but I can’t be bothered. Took some photos of the same view from my deck this morning. The snow on the closer hills I photographed has mostly gone now, but still lots on the more distant ones.

Acton said :

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?

I don’t recall any mention of snow on bom.gov.au for the Canberra area over the weekend.

I can see Mt Campbell from my back door. I looks like snow down to about 1000m. There was more in the event several weeks ago. If i produced the accuracy of BOM professionally, i’d be long unemployed.

I had my fill of snow recently driving in Iceland. Snow and ice covered roads in snowing condition, strong winds blowing the snow across the roads and top daytime temperatures of minus five and seven. I soon got over wanting this. My little rental Chevrolet Spark came into one town groaning with the build up of ice underneath. The hard ice was scrapping the ground and wheels when I turned them, causing the noisy. Took me days to remove all the ice in those temperatures and I only succeeded when I left the minus temperature area. Winter tyres of course, or I wouldn’t have got through. Despite them, on one very windy, snowy, icy hilltop I suddenly found myself sliding sideways towards a snow bank. I was lucky to be able to steer myself out of that one. That fright slowed me down. Low visibility. I had never driven in conditions like that before, but to people who live there, that is normal. No, I didn’t miss missing out on snowy roads yesterday without having winter tyres. Pretty though.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Well, that was a big disappointment. Temperatures didn’t even get below 0 for the weekend, no white stuff on the Brindabellas and what happened to the expected 90km/h winds? All the hype about a “winter vortex” fizzled into a spring thunderstorm for Canberra and actually warmed up the place in comparison to the last few weeks.
I agree, if they can’t even go close to predicting an event like this, how can they see hundreds of years into the future and say with any certainty what the air temperature is going to be?

You must be looking at a different range of mountains as Mt Franklin had the most extensive covering of snow I have seen for many years when I checked it yesterday.
I am going to walk up Mt Wanniassa this morning and I’ll take a photo and if I can work out how to post it, I will.
There was more snow last night and it can still be seen on the hills near Burra.

dungfungus said :

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

The BOM online stats. indicated a temp. of around 6 degrees at Port Lincoln, SA at about 8.00am Saturday morning just as the cold front crossed the coast.
Temperatures at that place are normally double that so it appears this change has some grunt.
If I become a warmist, will the cold weather go away?

No because it is weather, not climate.

A hard ask for Rupert’s Minions to follow.

Not even the coldest weather on record.

So, weather has no relation to the climate?

I know Rupert is enviable and powerful but I don’t think he can control the climate.

Did I say anything about the coldest weather on record?

You said that the “Temperatures at that place are normally double that” (when? relative to what?) in some fallacious argument that this cold spell is significant to your head in the sand view of global warming. As if global warming means there will never be a cold winter again.

Rupert certainly can’t control climate, he is just doing an old man’s King Canute, but he can control other befuddled old men and some of the most ignorant and vindictive politicians this country has ever seen.

Well, that was a big disappointment. Temperatures didn’t even get below 0 for the weekend, no white stuff on the Brindabellas and what happened to the expected 90km/h winds? All the hype about a “winter vortex” fizzled into a spring thunderstorm for Canberra and actually warmed up the place in comparison to the last few weeks.
I agree, if they can’t even go close to predicting an event like this, how can they see hundreds of years into the future and say with any certainty what the air temperature is going to be?

Acton said :

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?
In the 1960s we were warned of global cooling, rather than global warming.
For the past million years or so warm periods have alternated with ice ages. This happens according to a fairly regular schedule: 90,000 years or so of cold followed by 10,000 years or so of warmth. And we have used up about 12,000 years of it already.
Apparently defying the climate scientists, solar scientists are now predicting a coming mini-ice age (and not one based on human activities):
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/mini-ice-age-coming-in-next-fifteen-years-new-model-of-the-suns-cycle-shows-10382400.html

So who and what to believe – global warming or an ice age?
No doubt the creativity of grant chasing climate scientists will allow their theories to accomodate factual inconsistencies.

The climate change industry will bend whatever way the wind is blowing to keep getting funded.

rubaiyat said :

dungfungus said :

The BOM online stats. indicated a temp. of around 6 degrees at Port Lincoln, SA at about 8.00am Saturday morning just as the cold front crossed the coast.
Temperatures at that place are normally double that so it appears this change has some grunt.
If I become a warmist, will the cold weather go away?

No because it is weather, not climate.

A hard ask for Rupert’s Minions to follow.

Not even the coldest weather on record.

So, weather has no relation to the climate?

I know Rupert is enviable and powerful but I don’t think he can control the climate.

Did I say anything about the coldest weather on record?

Acton said :

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?

It is the same deal as casinos can’t pick individual winners or losers, but given enough time and samples they can build their business on they win and the thousands who pass through their doors collectively lose.

Or despite the constant ups and downs of waves, ships captains bring their ships safely into port based on tide tables.

Or Insurance companies don’t know when you will die but when the population as a whole will meet their maker.

Despite these principals are easy enough, you don’t seem unable to work out the differences, and jump at the only (usually misquoted or misinterpreted) example that agrees with your prejudices and therefore is “true” whilst the thousands upon thousands of double and triple checked research results are all “faked”.

btw You do know that that article, from the usual ignorant reporters, talks about a supposed 60% reduction in solar flares which has little to no relationship to Solar radiation on the Earth. If it did all life on Earth would be totally doomed, not start an Ice Age.

Acton said :

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?
In the 1960s we were warned of global cooling, rather than global warming.
For the past million years or so warm periods have alternated with ice ages. This happens according to a fairly regular schedule: 90,000 years or so of cold followed by 10,000 years or so of warmth. And we have used up about 12,000 years of it already.
Apparently defying the climate scientists, solar scientists are now predicting a coming mini-ice age (and not one based on human activities):
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/mini-ice-age-coming-in-next-fifteen-years-new-model-of-the-suns-cycle-shows-10382400.html

So who and what to believe – global warming or an ice age?
No doubt the creativity of grant chasing climate scientists will allow their theories to accomodate factual inconsistencies.

One thing I and the climate scientists can predict with absolute certainty is at the first mention of weather/climate up spring the ex smoking/asbestos/car safety/oil/coal industry shills with the usual load of cobblers repeated ad nauseum from Rupert’s rags or Aliar Jones’ “research”, aka Comments for Hire, from some 70’s Frederick Forsyth paperback.

From long battling these paid misinformationists or their dupes, you know that none of it ever is backed up with any genuine double checked science and every time you expose the fraud they just make up something else.

If only we could get the Health Inspectors onto this outbreak of online diarrhoea.

With all their ready and factual data, if meterorologists can’t get their weather forecast right for the weekend, how can we trust climate scientists to get their predictions of future global warming right?
In the 1960s we were warned of global cooling, rather than global warming.
For the past million years or so warm periods have alternated with ice ages. This happens according to a fairly regular schedule: 90,000 years or so of cold followed by 10,000 years or so of warmth. And we have used up about 12,000 years of it already.
Apparently defying the climate scientists, solar scientists are now predicting a coming mini-ice age (and not one based on human activities):
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/mini-ice-age-coming-in-next-fifteen-years-new-model-of-the-suns-cycle-shows-10382400.html

So who and what to believe – global warming or an ice age?
No doubt the creativity of grant chasing climate scientists will allow their theories to accomodate factual inconsistencies.

It reached 0°C in 1898, 1900 and 1920.

7.5°C in the middle of Winter in an Antarctic vortex in 2015 is not setting any records

dungfungus said :

The BOM online stats. indicated a temp. of around 6 degrees at Port Lincoln, SA at about 8.00am Saturday morning just as the cold front crossed the coast.
Temperatures at that place are normally double that so it appears this change has some grunt.
If I become a warmist, will the cold weather go away?

No because it is weather, not climate.

A hard ask for Rupert’s Minions to follow.

Not even the coldest weather on record.

The BOM online stats. indicated a temp. of around 6 degrees at Port Lincoln, SA at about 8.00am Saturday morning just as the cold front crossed the coast.
Temperatures at that place are normally double that so it appears this change has some grunt.
If I become a warmist, will the cold weather go away?

“Feral? What is this meant to mean? Is this some new meteorological term for maybe it might snow, but then again it may not?”

If you have ever made a woman angry at any time in your life (like if you forget a birthday/anniversary) then you would know what ‘feral’ means. Dark … cold … angry … slow moving … and nothing in the world will change it. After 10 years of marriage I have seen ‘feral’ up close many times!

If it does snow, are they going to close all the roads like they do the Brindabella road every time it gets a little frosty up there? How would we get around, seeing we are incompetent at driving in anything more than a mild shower?

I have become very superstitious about snow falls since I arrived in Canberra in 1990. I have found that irrespective of predictions, it only snows properly when my husband is out of town . Sure he has seen a few sleety days in Canberra but those really good ones (remember the football game in the snow) always occur when he is away – usually a long way away like Cairns.
I am encouraging him to consider a trip away as I write but alas he selfish wants to stay. He mumbles something about it not being fair that he never gets to see the snow. 🙂

Never ever happens when they predict it (come on, snow, I dare you!). Plus, a couple of days ago, there was nothing above 8 degrees forecast for next week, which has all changed now. Similar to how they regularly predict 40 in summer, 5 days in advance, which never happens…

Although every year I get interstate colleagues asking how much snow we get in Canberra. Err, none.

I’m with you, Marcus. This weather is too miserable to endure without the prospect of snow. Fingers crossed!