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The rich get richer as Terry Snow ponies up the cash for Grammar

By johnboy 30 May 2013 52

The ABC has the thrilling news that Canberra Grammar is getting, on top of its enormous fees and government top ups, $8 million of Terry Snow’s money to ensure the ruling elite are well placed for the next generation:

Businessman Terry Snow has donated $8 million to his former school Canberra Grammar to build a new Asian century centre.

It is one of the largest single donations to an Australian school and will be spent on a new building for teaching Asian languages, geography, history, economics and culture.

Mr Snow says he was inspired by the vision of Canberra Grammar principal Justin Garrick to prepare students for Australia’s increasing engagement with the region.

Gap years in China would do more good IMHO.

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The rich get richer as Terry Snow ponies up the cash for Grammar
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broman 8:13 pm 04 Jun 13

Masquara said :

Tetranitrate said :

Masquara said :

miz said :

Masquara, that’s a breathtakingly deluded statement!
It feeds into the misapprehension that people earning a pretty nice income are ‘doing it tough’ – see http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/05/not-rich-why-weve-no-idea-what-what-we.html

An elite school is one that excludes most simply on a financial basis. Canberra Grammar certainly fits that bill. Most people, even in rather prosperous Canberra, cannot afford it. I know a lot of people in Canberra, having grown up here, and the only people I know who are in a position to send their kids to Boys Grammar (family) are a DI couple who are both EL2 in the APS, and they readily admit that are having to significantly extend their mortgage to do so.

.

You are underlining my point. A pair of EL2s in the public service are NOT members of the elite by any stretch of the definition. Nor are their kids. Canberra Grammar is a moderately good and moderately expensive school, and the elite (such as it exists in Canberra, which is barely) do not send their kids there. Some country folk in the region, some DFAT, a few local small business people, and the aforementioned EL2s send their boys there. The elite send their boys to Shore et al. NOT Canberra Grammar. They are as likely to send their kids to a good local state school. Same goes for CEGGS.

http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/what-is-the-typical-australians-income-in-2013/

Individually, an EL2 would be in the top 10% of income earners individually, but a household with two EL2’s would be easily in the to 5% of income earners.
I guess it depends on how widely or narrowly we define ‘elite’.

The top five per cent of wage earners does not constitute society’s elite in terms of money. And you aren’t taking inherited wealth into account. And you aren’t taking into account that high earners reduce their income through taxation strategies. Two EL2s without family or business money could not possibly sustain, say, three children all the way through Grammar AND live in an expensive house with a mortgage AND run two expensive cars. In any case, as I said, people who want their kids to mix with the elite send them to an elite school. Canberra Grammar doesn’t qualify.

masquara,

I was wondering how involved you are in canberra grammar school. I would not like to expend too many details, but I am very involved within the canberra grammar school community. I would describe the school as semi-elitist. I have also spent time at elitist school like sydney grammar, kings, scots, shore and knox. Out of my time at all these schools the richest people I have encountered are at cgs. There are arab diplomats whose families have literally hundreds of millions and in rare cases billions. There are princes and actual royalty due to the strong diplomatic presence in canberra.

For your statement that if people wanted their children to mix with the elite they would send their children to elitist schools this is poppycock. When you drive down canberra’s richest street, Mugga way, when you look at the giant mansions remind yourself that the children living in these houses are going to grammar. Grammar also has disadvantaged students from country areas who attend the school through scholarships granted to farming families. There are also many houses that make many sacrifices to send their children to the school. You have these children mixing with that of the ultra rich.

In your assesment of shore being the pinnacle of australia’s elitist schools, this is simply wrong. Shore is now an outdated north shore school that the sydney’s elite no longer desire to send their children to. Look more towards schools like Lorretto Kirribili and Knox Grammar.

Please resond

Masquara 9:29 pm 03 Jun 13

Tetranitrate said :

Masquara said :

miz said :

Masquara, that’s a breathtakingly deluded statement!
It feeds into the misapprehension that people earning a pretty nice income are ‘doing it tough’ – see http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/05/not-rich-why-weve-no-idea-what-what-we.html

An elite school is one that excludes most simply on a financial basis. Canberra Grammar certainly fits that bill. Most people, even in rather prosperous Canberra, cannot afford it. I know a lot of people in Canberra, having grown up here, and the only people I know who are in a position to send their kids to Boys Grammar (family) are a DI couple who are both EL2 in the APS, and they readily admit that are having to significantly extend their mortgage to do so.

.

You are underlining my point. A pair of EL2s in the public service are NOT members of the elite by any stretch of the definition. Nor are their kids. Canberra Grammar is a moderately good and moderately expensive school, and the elite (such as it exists in Canberra, which is barely) do not send their kids there. Some country folk in the region, some DFAT, a few local small business people, and the aforementioned EL2s send their boys there. The elite send their boys to Shore et al. NOT Canberra Grammar. They are as likely to send their kids to a good local state school. Same goes for CEGGS.

http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/what-is-the-typical-australians-income-in-2013/

Individually, an EL2 would be in the top 10% of income earners individually, but a household with two EL2’s would be easily in the to 5% of income earners.
I guess it depends on how widely or narrowly we define ‘elite’.

The top five per cent of wage earners does not constitute society’s elite in terms of money. And you aren’t taking inherited wealth into account. And you aren’t taking into account that high earners reduce their income through taxation strategies. Two EL2s without family or business money could not possibly sustain, say, three children all the way through Grammar AND live in an expensive house with a mortgage AND run two expensive cars. In any case, as I said, people who want their kids to mix with the elite send them to an elite school. Canberra Grammar doesn’t qualify.

miz 6:49 pm 03 Jun 13

Dungfungus, they have mentioned children getting a ‘rose’ (a discipline warning), including one of their own children. However, their kids are generally so frigging busy with extra curricular (before school, after school) there is not much time for any child to get up to mischief it seems. I guess this points to the old ‘after school sport theory’ – you know the one – “back in my day, we all played sport after school”. (I guess there’s something in that, after all. If only sport was not so expensive – though not nearly as expensive as Boys Grammar!)

Tetranitrate 9:29 am 03 Jun 13

Masquara said :

miz said :

Masquara, that’s a breathtakingly deluded statement!
It feeds into the misapprehension that people earning a pretty nice income are ‘doing it tough’ – see http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/05/not-rich-why-weve-no-idea-what-what-we.html

An elite school is one that excludes most simply on a financial basis. Canberra Grammar certainly fits that bill. Most people, even in rather prosperous Canberra, cannot afford it. I know a lot of people in Canberra, having grown up here, and the only people I know who are in a position to send their kids to Boys Grammar (family) are a DI couple who are both EL2 in the APS, and they readily admit that are having to significantly extend their mortgage to do so.

.

You are underlining my point. A pair of EL2s in the public service are NOT members of the elite by any stretch of the definition. Nor are their kids. Canberra Grammar is a moderately good and moderately expensive school, and the elite (such as it exists in Canberra, which is barely) do not send their kids there. Some country folk in the region, some DFAT, a few local small business people, and the aforementioned EL2s send their boys there. The elite send their boys to Shore et al. NOT Canberra Grammar. They are as likely to send their kids to a good local state school. Same goes for CEGGS.

http://mattcowgill.wordpress.com/2013/05/13/what-is-the-typical-australians-income-in-2013/

Individually, an EL2 would be in the top 10% of income earners individually, but a household with two EL2’s would be easily in the to 5% of income earners.
I guess it depends on how widely or narrowly we define ‘elite’.

bundah 9:23 am 03 Jun 13

According to Forbes Tezza Snow is worth around $750m so $8m is chicken feed.In fact i’m sure he could afford to wipe his bottom with $100 bills and barely raise a sweat!

Diggety 9:12 am 03 Jun 13

Diggety said :

Probably worth considering the net public benefit of such a donation.

Having a targetted Asian engagement centre in one of our most prestigeous schools may well have positive secondary flow-on effects for the rest of us.

Not that Snow needs our approval by the way; it is his money, he earned it and he can whatever the hell he likes with it.

Diggety 9:09 am 03 Jun 13

Probably worth considering the net public benefit of such a donation.

Having a targetted Asian engagement centre in one of our most prestigeous schools may well have positive secondary flow-on effects for the rest of us.

And since the idea and funds come from a successful entreprenear (not a bureaucrat), it’s more likely the project is based on sound reasoning.

dungfungus 8:26 am 03 Jun 13

miz said :

Masq, Shore is a Sydney school and irrelevant to the issue of which Canberra schools are elite.

And if you read the link I attached, you would see that an EL2 couple (earning around $220/year combined, with two tax free thresholds, making them better off than a single earner on that income) is, compared to most Australians, Very Well Off Indeed.

The Grammars (Canberra and CEGGS) and Radford are, therefore, Canberra’s elite schools, due to their fees, which exclude most.

re Mr Snow’s donation, the family I know with children attending Grammar greeted the news with ambivalence and a touch of embarrassment, as they are fully aware how resourced Grammar already is. Their kids were previously at a public school so they are aware of the contrast in resources.

I would be interested to hear from you whether the family you know are also aware of a contrast in the quality of teaching and discipline because this is the prime reason parents send their children to private schools such as CGS.

miz 7:35 am 03 Jun 13

Masq, Shore is a Sydney school and irrelevant to the issue of which Canberra schools are elite.

And if you read the link I attached, you would see that an EL2 couple (earning around $220/year combined, with two tax free thresholds, making them better off than a single earner on that income) is, compared to most Australians, Very Well Off Indeed.

The Grammars (Canberra and CEGGS) and Radford are, therefore, Canberra’s elite schools, due to their fees, which exclude most.

re Mr Snow’s donation, the family I know with children attending Grammar greeted the news with ambivalence and a touch of embarrassment, as they are fully aware how resourced Grammar already is. Their kids were previously at a public school so they are aware of the contrast in resources.

Masquara 6:44 pm 02 Jun 13

miz said :

Masquara, that’s a breathtakingly deluded statement!
It feeds into the misapprehension that people earning a pretty nice income are ‘doing it tough’ – see http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/05/not-rich-why-weve-no-idea-what-what-we.html

An elite school is one that excludes most simply on a financial basis. Canberra Grammar certainly fits that bill. Most people, even in rather prosperous Canberra, cannot afford it. I know a lot of people in Canberra, having grown up here, and the only people I know who are in a position to send their kids to Boys Grammar (family) are a DI couple who are both EL2 in the APS, and they readily admit that are having to significantly extend their mortgage to do so.

.

You are underlining my point. A pair of EL2s in the public service are NOT members of the elite by any stretch of the definition. Nor are their kids. Canberra Grammar is a moderately good and moderately expensive school, and the elite (such as it exists in Canberra, which is barely) do not send their kids there. Some country folk in the region, some DFAT, a few local small business people, and the aforementioned EL2s send their boys there. The elite send their boys to Shore et al. NOT Canberra Grammar. They are as likely to send their kids to a good local state school. Same goes for CEGGS.

chewy14 2:22 pm 02 Jun 13

Masquara said :

chewy14 said :

Masquara said :

Things should be set up so that a school that receives an $8 million donation cedes the equivalent taxpayer funding to be applied to a poorer school. Similar to applying income thresholds for welfare payments.

Yes, because that will definitely encourage more rich people to give money to schools.

Yes, because regardless, taxpayer’s money will be better protected when a rich school doesn’t need it. No donation, no drama. I don’t care whether rich people give money to rich schools or not. But if they do, it privileges those rich schools above the rest. So there’s the need for a mechanism to compensate the taxpayer for any unnecessary contribution. See?

Completely disagree. Any donation to education is a good thing, there’s no way we should be punishing schools for being able to generate extra funds.

I suppose you think schools that do other forms of fundraising should have their funds cut also?

dungfungus 10:16 am 02 Jun 13

miz said :

Masquara, that’s a breathtakingly deluded statement!
It feeds into the misapprehension that people earning a pretty nice income are ‘doing it tough’ – see http://www.petermartin.com.au/2013/05/not-rich-why-weve-no-idea-what-what-we.html

An elite school is one that excludes most simply on a financial basis. Canberra Grammar certainly fits that bill. Most people, even in rather prosperous Canberra, cannot afford it. I know a lot of people in Canberra, having grown up here, and the only people I know who are in a position to send their kids to Boys Grammar (family) are a DI couple who are both EL2 in the APS, and they readily admit that are having to significantly extend their mortgage to do so.

What is galling to me is that CG gets more than its share of fed govt funding due to the inequitable arrangements that have been in place since JWH – more than a decade – and a lot of private schools have benefited substantially from this windfall, not to mention that people understandably ‘follow the money’, reducing our previously excellent public sector to a ‘safety net’. This is not how universal education should be.

I’m sure Mr Snow could have found a more worthy recipient if he had put his mind to it, a la Bill Gates.

As I understand the general difference between private and public schools is the former have to pay for their land and most improvements wheras the latter gets 100% funding from the government (federal, state/territory). On-going expenditure for teachers salaries and administartion costs are funded by school fees in the private schools and the taxpayer in the public system.
I know people on very modest income who have elected to put their children through private schools and in doing so these parents make sacrifices that other people wouldn’t be prepared to do so it is more about choice than economic means.

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