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There is no affordable housing in Canberra. Official

By johnboy 30 April 2013 40

The ABC brings word of an Anglicare report showing there is no housing in Canberra that could be called affordable:

The report found among the people it surveyed there were no affordable houses for single parents, people on Newstart or Youth Allowance.

Anglicare ACT’s Jenny Kitchin says the situation is not much better across the border.

“A lot of people who haven’t been able to afford to either buy or rent in Canberra have move out to Queanbeyan, so Queanbeyan has really become just as problematic as the ACT,” Ms Kitchin said.

The report defines an affordable rental property as one which took up less than 30 per cent of a household’s income.

“For example, if I was a single person on Newstart allowance, and if I paid 30 per cent of what I get on my benefit I could only afford $80 a week to pay for rent,” she said.

“Now we know that in Canberra rental properties are at least two or three times that cost.

“So it makes it extremely difficult.”

“But what about all the years of multipoint plans from earnest looking government ministers” I hear you cry.

Psalm 146 retains words to live by:

Put not your trust in princes

When advice stays good for 3,000 years don’t hold your breath for the next 6 point plan to get over it.

What’s Your opinion?


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There is no affordable housing in Canberra. Official
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Ben_Dover 7:05 am 02 May 13

thebrownstreak69 said :

Ben_Dover said :

The report found among the people it surveyed there were no affordable houses for single parents, people on Newstart or Youth Allowance.

Anglicare ACT’s Jenny Kitchin says the situation is not much better across the border.

“A lot of people who haven’t been able to afford to either buy or rent in Canberra have move out to Queanbeyan, so Queanbeyan has really become just as problematic as the ACT,” Ms Kitchin said.

Right, let me see if I have this right. People in Canberra on benefits cannot afford housing, so they are migrating to the mean streets of Queanbeyan?

The poor souls, I wouldn’t inflict Queanbayn on my dogs!

But seriously.

How cheap a house would Ms Kitchin*, like built, and how many? How does she suggest there is a financial benefit for someone one to build such a house?

Or shall we take it that Ms Kitchin**, would like the taxpayer to fund more Stuart Flats and the like to provide for the benefits claimants.

* Stop tittering.

**I said stop it!

This kind of attitude is one of the reasons rents are high in Canberra.

Really!! Wow!! I have a super power folks..

ATTITUDE MAN, can put up rents with just one flex of his mighty attitude!!

wildturkeycanoe 9:34 pm 01 May 13

Renting ain’t all it’s cracked up to be. We currently pay off a mortgage at about the same price as rentals in Canberra and that is for a new home, 4 years old now. If we were to move back to a rental market now in our neighborhood, the cheapest that could house our 5 person family would come in a very close second to our mortgage per week. Even if we were to move inter-suburb, there is little comparison unfortunately. Then is the prospect of finding one that will allow pets. That eliminates over half of the affordable ones. God forbid we end up having foreclosure on the mortgage and having to find other means in which to live. And this is with a reasonably good income BTW, so I do not look down at all on those who are doing it tough…my deepest sympathies to you all. Sincerely.

scorpio63 8:02 pm 01 May 13

Michelago (the best at present), Captains Flat, Gundaroo,Lake George area, Collector with acreage, Goulburn with acreage and new blocks for sale, Housesitting to save a deposit (6 week, 2 and 3 month, 6week and 12 month housesits while people are travelling); there are options starting out.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd 4:47 pm 01 May 13

kea said :

peebus said :

As someone once told me “We live in a public service town honey, deal with it and move on”.

You know what really jerks my chain about living in Canberra? You all sit on your high-horses and look down at those who aren’t blessed with a job in the public service.. you teach your kids to be like you.. 19 year olds are leaving school and getting entry level jobs on excellent incomes.. but it isn’t life in the real world, it’s life in a bubble that is the A.C.T..

Where is the entrepreneurship? Where is the ground swell of the next generation coming through with innovative ideas? the Start-Up culture that creates something from nothing and turns into a company that provides jobs to the community?

Instead we have families with third generation public servants.. That’s our legacy…..

You prefer urban sprawl and decreased housing density to maintain the value of your suburban McMansion and couldn’t give two shits about affordable housing “options” for non-public servant types like students, single parents, immigrants etc etc.. Yes OPTIONS! How’s that for a novel idea.. in Canberra it’s either a 3 bedroom house for $495 a week or a 1 bedroom apartment for $495 a week..

It’s not something that anyone needs to “get over and deal with”.. I think it says that something is horribly wrong with the culture of our city and the midset that if you’re not blessed with a public service income the answer is to get a public service income?!

/endrant

I guess you could move towns? I’m not a public servant but can afford a mortgage. I don’t think the answer is to poo poo on public servants. Why not try get into it your self? I have no idea about your situation bunt ranting against those who make good money won’t help you one bit.

rosscoact 4:21 pm 01 May 13

kea said :

peebus said :

As someone once told me “We live in a public service town honey, deal with it and move on”.

You know what really jerks my chain about living in Canberra? You all sit on your high-horses and look down at those who aren’t blessed with a job in the public service.. you teach your kids to be like you.. 19 year olds are leaving school and getting entry level jobs on excellent incomes.. but it isn’t life in the real world, it’s life in a bubble that is the A.C.T..

Where is the entrepreneurship? Where is the ground swell of the next generation coming through with innovative ideas? the Start-Up culture that creates something from nothing and turns into a company that provides jobs to the community?

/endrant

According to PWC 2% of Australia’s tech sector startups come from the ACT, behind Sydney (64%) Melbourne (24%) and Brisbane (7%).

Admittedly we could do better with entrepreneurship especially with the number of tertiary students here but beside government support it also needs big business support and that does not exist in the ACT (unless ActewAGL jumps in and I don’t think they’ll be doing any of that in the near future)

Matt69 3:34 pm 01 May 13

devils_advocate said :

Ben_Dover said :

What “games”? Where is yoru evidence for this happening?

I think the post here is basically saying that public servants who sit around doing sweet FA are stealing taxpayer dollars in the same way as professional welfare recipients.

In terms of proof, it would require evidence of skewed incentives – pay vs output compared to some control (peers in comparable private sector). The problem is, it is notoriously difficult to measure output or productivity in government, especially in a policy agency (service delivery can have kpas, but still it is difficult because government services aren’t a normal market).

FWIW, I think that there is a reasonably strong theoretical argument to be built around the fact that it is essentially impossible to get fired from the public service. So that factor reduces likely productivity.

There are other factors that increase productivity, however. Job security doesn’t only have bad outcomes, it can in fact encourage productivity and commitment to the employer, which can help retain corporate knowledge etc. Also, many individuals will have concrete incentives to compete for promotions and move up the ranks, which is usually attained by increasing work effort/output. Sure there might be cases of cronyism etc – which are viewed particularly harshly in light of the supposed APS values framework – but these occur in private enterprise too, and in any case sucking up can only get you so far.

To my mind the real risk arises when people settle into the level that they’re happy at – EL1, or EL2, or even lower-level SES – and basically decide that this level represents their optimal tradeoff between leisure and other forms of consumption (income). They know that getting fired is virtually impossible, but at the same time are not motivated by the prospect of promotion. These guys are essentially running out the clock before cashing in their defined benefit scheme. In my view, these individuals represent the drain on the public purse and the barrier to younger, more enthusiastic individuals being promoted. Thankfully, while they represent a potentially significant slice of the APS, their culture is not representative of the majority.

Is it only public servants that are guilty of that – I don’t think so. What you’re saying is that anyone who gets to a level they are happy with and decides to go for no further promotions is a drain on the purse (public or private – doesn’t matter). What a load of rubbish. Not many people are pushing for promotion till the day they retire. Most workers eventually get to a level of comfort and decide they will work out their days without pushing for more – Your argument is just another attempt to bag out the PS.

Matt69 3:14 pm 01 May 13

kea said :

Matt69 said :

So sick of these arguments turning into a ‘I hate public servants’ rant. Unless I missed it, public servants were not even mentioned in the OP. For the record, I’m a 23 year veteran of the Federal public service, and proud of it. I started out as a trainee, on 75% of the (then) ASO1 wage, which believe me was not a lot. Over the following 23 years, I’ve gone slowly from one level to the next through hard work and applying for promotion. I am now at a decent level and earn a decent wage. As far as I’m concerned, I have earned that. 23 years working for the same department, working from the very bottom up through the ranks. Why should I then be tagged as a bludger who is rich and blows his cash on crap. We live to a budget, only buy what we want when we can afford it, and certainly don’t have a large credit card debt, a cupboard full of grog, or sleaves full of tats. In short, we live within our means, and don’t get one cent from the Government in support, and have never been on the dole or drained the public purse. Sick of all public servants being thrown in the same bucket as overpaid, underworking wankers. Anyone who works their entire life getting ahead in the one field deserves all they get. Rant over.

The post i referenced was specifically related to Canberra being a public servant town and to get over it. It sounds like you’ve created and maintained a nice little suburban bubble for yourself. Worked your way up and deserving of your lifestyle.. That’s nice.

And what have you contributed to the community and those beyond your cosy bubble? do you volunteer? Do create jobs for others? Why do you deserve a pat on the back for merely being a contributing member of society and other philanthropic and entrepreneurial individuals barely get any recognition.. this town is back to front and upside down..

Because I’m a public servant that has set themselves up well, I’m living in a bubble – WTF? And I wasn’t after a pat on the back from you or anyone else kea, just commenting that these discussion usually end up being about hating the PS. Maybe you should re-read my post.

Do I volunteer, yes actually. Do I create jobs, no – so what, most people don’t. Your point?

kea 12:54 pm 01 May 13

Matt69 said :

So sick of these arguments turning into a ‘I hate public servants’ rant. Unless I missed it, public servants were not even mentioned in the OP. For the record, I’m a 23 year veteran of the Federal public service, and proud of it. I started out as a trainee, on 75% of the (then) ASO1 wage, which believe me was not a lot. Over the following 23 years, I’ve gone slowly from one level to the next through hard work and applying for promotion. I am now at a decent level and earn a decent wage. As far as I’m concerned, I have earned that. 23 years working for the same department, working from the very bottom up through the ranks. Why should I then be tagged as a bludger who is rich and blows his cash on crap. We live to a budget, only buy what we want when we can afford it, and certainly don’t have a large credit card debt, a cupboard full of grog, or sleaves full of tats. In short, we live within our means, and don’t get one cent from the Government in support, and have never been on the dole or drained the public purse. Sick of all public servants being thrown in the same bucket as overpaid, underworking wankers. Anyone who works their entire life getting ahead in the one field deserves all they get. Rant over.

The post i referenced was specifically related to Canberra being a public servant town and to get over it. It sounds like you’ve created and maintained a nice little suburban bubble for yourself. Worked your way up and deserving of your lifestyle.. That’s nice.

And what have you contributed to the community and those beyond your cosy bubble? do you volunteer? Do create jobs for others? Why do you deserve a pat on the back for merely being a contributing member of society and other philanthropic and entrepreneurial individuals barely get any recognition.. this town is back to front and upside down..

Watson 12:52 pm 01 May 13

kea said :

You prefer urban sprawl and decreased housing density to maintain the value of your suburban McMansion and couldn’t give two shits about affordable housing “options” for non-public servant types like students, single parents, immigrants etc etc..

Why are student/single parent/immigrant and public servant mutually exclusive? I am actually in 2 of those categories and a public servant.

Agree with the limited options though.

thebrownstreak69 12:26 pm 01 May 13

Ben_Dover said :

The report found among the people it surveyed there were no affordable houses for single parents, people on Newstart or Youth Allowance.

Anglicare ACT’s Jenny Kitchin says the situation is not much better across the border.

“A lot of people who haven’t been able to afford to either buy or rent in Canberra have move out to Queanbeyan, so Queanbeyan has really become just as problematic as the ACT,” Ms Kitchin said.

Right, let me see if I have this right. People in Canberra on benefits cannot afford housing, so they are migrating to the mean streets of Queanbeyan?

The poor souls, I wouldn’t inflict Queanbayn on my dogs!

But seriously.

How cheap a house would Ms Kitchin*, like built, and how many? How does she suggest there is a financial benefit for someone one to build such a house?

Or shall we take it that Ms Kitchin**, would like the taxpayer to fund more Stuart Flats and the like to provide for the benefits claimants.

* Stop tittering.

**I said stop it!

This kind of attitude is one of the reasons rents are high in Canberra.

clj 12:06 pm 01 May 13

Masquara said :

er people on Newstart qualify for rent assistance. So that’s actually $140 a week available – enough to rent a room in a group house in one of the less fashionable suburbs …

Incorrect, sorry. For a single with no dependents the maximum rent assistance is $123 or if you share, $82, and that is per fortnight not per week. $41 per week is ~almost~ enough to rent the cheapest campsite in Canberra. Unfortunately you only get that much rent assistance if your rent is a lot more.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/centrelink/rent-assistance/payment-rates
http://www.citizensadvice.org.au/content/view/37/32/

devils_advocate 11:19 am 01 May 13

Ben_Dover said :

What “games”? Where is yoru evidence for this happening?

I think the post here is basically saying that public servants who sit around doing sweet FA are stealing taxpayer dollars in the same way as professional welfare recipients.

In terms of proof, it would require evidence of skewed incentives – pay vs output compared to some control (peers in comparable private sector). The problem is, it is notoriously difficult to measure output or productivity in government, especially in a policy agency (service delivery can have kpas, but still it is difficult because government services aren’t a normal market).

FWIW, I think that there is a reasonably strong theoretical argument to be built around the fact that it is essentially impossible to get fired from the public service. So that factor reduces likely productivity.

There are other factors that increase productivity, however. Job security doesn’t only have bad outcomes, it can in fact encourage productivity and commitment to the employer, which can help retain corporate knowledge etc. Also, many individuals will have concrete incentives to compete for promotions and move up the ranks, which is usually attained by increasing work effort/output. Sure there might be cases of cronyism etc – which are viewed particularly harshly in light of the supposed APS values framework – but these occur in private enterprise too, and in any case sucking up can only get you so far.

To my mind the real risk arises when people settle into the level that they’re happy at – EL1, or EL2, or even lower-level SES – and basically decide that this level represents their optimal tradeoff between leisure and other forms of consumption (income). They know that getting fired is virtually impossible, but at the same time are not motivated by the prospect of promotion. These guys are essentially running out the clock before cashing in their defined benefit scheme. In my view, these individuals represent the drain on the public purse and the barrier to younger, more enthusiastic individuals being promoted. Thankfully, while they represent a potentially significant slice of the APS, their culture is not representative of the majority.

Ben_Dover 10:52 am 01 May 13

Ben_Dover said :

Serious? I thought people who max out their credit card were, you know, expected to pay it back, or get hammered in court. Whereas your dole claiming, chain smoking, booze hound is expected to do nothing for their cash, and will go back to the source with their hands out for more free money.

Yes I am serious, both are people who have their priorities mixed up.

But one has to face consequences, where the other just begs for more.

harvyk1 said :

chewy14 said :

The difference is the work slacker does it with their own or their company’s money whereas the benefit receiver does it with the taxpayer’s.

I couldn’t give a rats about the first but the second is wasting valuable taxpayers money that could be much better used elsewhere.

What about public servants playing the games? That’s “my” money so to speak as much as the benefit receiver is receiving “my” money.

What “games”? Where is yoru evidence for this happening?

harvyk1 9:51 am 01 May 13

Ben_Dover said :

Serious? I thought people who max out their credit card were, you know, expected to pay it back, or get hammered in court. Whereas your dole claiming, chain smoking, booze hound is expected to do nothing for their cash, and will go back to the source with their hands out for more free money.

Yes I am serious, both are people who have their priorities mixed up.

chewy14 said :

The difference is the work slacker does it with their own or their company’s money whereas the benefit receiver does it with the taxpayer’s.

I couldn’t give a rats about the first but the second is wasting valuable taxpayers money that could be much better used elsewhere.

What about public servants playing the games? That’s “my” money so to speak as much as the benefit receiver is receiving “my” money.

Plus you don’t think that companies don’t raise the price of their products to help cover the slackers who are playing the games?

Don’t think I’m defending either behaviour, it’s just I find it interesting that both are a drain on society, but one is considered acceptable, and the other it’s not.

chewy14 7:40 pm 30 Apr 13

harvyk1 said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

We should definitely be making sure that housing is cheaper for our friends who always seem to be able to afford smokes, booze and tatts.

Here is an interesting thought (and I’m being serious on this one).

Lets just say someone who blows money on smokes / booze / tatts, who then cries poor to the gov’t and get’s hand outs, really that much different than someone who plays the politics games at work to get ahead? Both are groups of people who are simply doing all they can to look after number one.

And whilst people who blow their money on smokes / booze and tatts without setting any aside for normal costs of living certainly need their priorities straightened out, are they really that different than someone who maxes out their credit card to purchase the latest brands and go on OS holidays?

Of course one is considered a drain on society, and yet the other is often marked as a winner, and yet surely we have all seen the people who are good at playing office politics, but couldn’t do an hour of actual work if their job depended on it. How are they that much different?

(For the record I am not on any sort of gov’t assistance, and I don’t smoke or have tatts, I don’t put OS holidays on CC’s either)

The difference is the work slacker does it with their own or their company’s money whereas the benefit receiver does it with the taxpayer’s.

I couldn’t give a rats about the first but the second is wasting valuable taxpayers money that could be much better used elsewhere.

Matt69 7:14 pm 30 Apr 13

So sick of these arguments turning into a ‘I hate public servants’ rant. Unless I missed it, public servants were not even mentioned in the OP. For the record, I’m a 23 year veteran of the Federal public service, and proud of it. I started out as a trainee, on 75% of the (then) ASO1 wage, which believe me was not a lot. Over the following 23 years, I’ve gone slowly from one level to the next through hard work and applying for promotion. I am now at a decent level and earn a decent wage. As far as I’m concerned, I have earned that. 23 years working for the same department, working from the very bottom up through the ranks. Why should I then be tagged as a bludger who is rich and blows his cash on crap. We live to a budget, only buy what we want when we can afford it, and certainly don’t have a large credit card debt, a cupboard full of grog, or sleaves full of tats. In short, we live within our means, and don’t get one cent from the Government in support, and have never been on the dole or drained the public purse. Sick of all public servants being thrown in the same bucket as overpaid, underworking wankers. Anyone who works their entire life getting ahead in the one field deserves all they get. Rant over.

Masquara 6:38 pm 30 Apr 13

kea said :

NoImRight said :

So….who do you think administers public housing for these people you are so concerned about?

The same people who have several investment properties and jack the private housing rent up, pushing people towards looking at public housing options.. that’s who..

ACT Government land tax does a pretty good job at forcing private rental costs up …

Masquara 6:36 pm 30 Apr 13

er people on Newstart qualify for rent assistance. So that’s actually $140 a week available – enough to rent a room in a group house in one of the less fashionable suburbs …

Ben_Dover 6:06 pm 30 Apr 13

harvyk1 said :

And whilst people who blow their money on smokes / booze and tatts without setting any aside for normal costs of living certainly need their priorities straightened out, are they really that different than someone who maxes out their credit card to purchase the latest brands and go on OS holidays?

Serious? I thought people who max out their credit card were, you know, expected to pay it back, or get hammered in court. Whereas your dole claiming, chain smoking, booze hound is expected to do nothing for their cash, and will go back to the source with their hands out for more free money.

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