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Tuggeranong – The Cinderella of the south

By John Hargreaves 7 September 2015 33

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There was no surprise that the latest survey of migration in Canberra had Tuggeranong losing so many of its burghers to Gungahlin. Tuggeranong is indeed the Cinderella of the South and always was and always will be.

This is because the planners, pollies and mandarins both commonwealth and territory have decided it shall be so.

I saw a huge migration in 1996/97 when the small business sector was decimated here after 7,500 public service jobs disappeared from the region.  The trickle-down effect killed off many support industries and I doubt if the Valley has really recovered.

This has been exacerbated by the uncertainty caused by the federal governments, of both persuasions, over staff reductions and staff movements to more salubrious digs closer to the seats of power. Moving ACT public servants to Gungahlin has given life to that newer area – to the detriment of Tuggeranong.

That the city should be home to the majority of public servants is a fallacy and given we are now in the e-age, the distribution of these jobs can be linked to the vibrancy of a particular town centre, not its continued disadvantage.

Whilst I don’t wish to deny Gungahlin its fortune in receiving a host of public servants, I do think that the errors of previous governments in relation to the sentencing of Tuggeranong to be a series of “dormitory suburbs” should be addressed first.

Let us see the unequal distribution of job and activity attracting facilities in the regions and one will see why Tuggeranong doesn’t believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy or the promises of pollies. At this stage, I declare that my pessimism is drawn from my frequent and fruitless rantings, beggings, pleadings, bullyings and entreaties on behalf of the Valley over 15 years.  And I see that my erstwhile colleague Brendan Smythe, and my successor MLAs of all three persuasions have fared no better.

Let’s compare Belconnen and Central Canberra with Tuggeranong.  Central Canberra being from Watson to Mawson.

There is a private and public hospital with the addition of another in the UC in Belconnen, there are two private hospitals and one public hospital in Central Canberra.  There are no hospitals in Tuggeranong.

There are significant industrial opportunities in central Canberra through Fyshwick, Phillip and Mitchell, Belconnen has a thriving industrial area.  Tuggeranong has a very minor industrial presence in Greenway and there is Hume which is not part of Tuggeranong anyway.

Belconnen has a thriving retail area, Civic has the retail and entertainment hub of Canberra, and Tuggeranong has a struggling Hyperdome.

Belconnen has the Stadium (of some different name each season) and the AIS.  Central Canberra has the Lyneham Sports complex, Manuka and Phillip Ovals, Tuggeranong has Greenway Oval which is rarely used by elite sports.

Belconnen has a university and a major CIT presence, Central Canberra has three universities and the major CIT presence, Tuggeranong has a very minor CIT presence.
Some years ago I did a rough tally of the numbers of public servants in each of the town centres and the order was something like Tuggeranong 4,000, City, 12,000, Belconnen, 12,000.  These figures are probably rubbery now but the ratio remains the same.

The private sector follows the public sector because that’s where the discretionary spending is.  We are seeing Woden starting to suffer because of the threat of Commonwealth public servants being moved out of the area.  This is a fact of life in Tuggeranong.

But not all is doom and gloom. You may remember that Cinderella was the most beautiful of the three sisters. And so it is for Tuggeranong in relation to the other two. Check out the photo.

Cinderella was rescued by a handsome Prince.  Well, we are waiting Prince Charming.  All we see at the moment are cane toads promising the world.

I love the Valley because it is beautiful, it is quiet, it has just enough entertainment for my selfish self and its citizens are welcoming.

Tell you what though.  A tram from Woden to Tuggeranong along Athllon Drive would be a good idea!

BTW… the introduction of medium density housing into the town centre precinct is helpful.  Let’s see more of it.

It is said that “if you build it, they will come”.  See what happened in Gungahlin, in Molonglo.  Heaps of new homes and people falling over themselves to buy up big. What about Tuggeranong?  Its aging infrastructure, its aging housing, its lack of decent facilities will sentence it to the forever sleep that the Sleeping Beauty suffered. Again, the need for a handsome Prince.

The creation of a new West Tuggeranong across the Murrumbidgee will actually create a two-tiered system in the area with the newbies living on one side and the Cinderellas on the other.

So OK guys and gals, the federal election is next year, so is the ACT election.  Let’s see the colour of your money and the breadth of your vision.


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33 Responses to
Tuggeranong – The Cinderella of the south
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rubaiyat 10:58 am 14 Sep 15

miz said :

JC, Pretty sure I specified South Tuggers (Banks, Conder, Gordon). Rubyat, even the light rail guy on 666 a few weeks ago indicated his clear puzzlement at the choice to start light rail in Canberra with an obvious commuter route Not directly linking any major tourist hubs etc. he basically said it would only be viable if there is a real plan to build across the entire city – and we all know that will never happen because it will be j affordable, despite government protestations.
Look, I am very much pro- public transport (bus every day to work and have lived in other States) and am a naturally left leaning politically, but this light rail is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

You haven’t seen my posts then on the route that I believe should be the first stage, Inner North and round the lake, but the anti-light rail posts here are just that, anti-light rail period, not discussing the route.

The posters are anti-anything that has never been built in Canberra or outside their (seemingly petty) experiences and against any alternative to eternal freeways out to distant dull suburbia. Far from considering the “Bush” in the ‘Bush Capital” an admirable thing they see it as something to flattened and smothered in a carpet of MacMansions and bitumen.

Whilst I certainly would not select the chosen route as the first stage, it will very likely work and Gugahlin has no real alternatives short of more expensive, dated and soul destroying freeways to connect to the City.

JC 9:16 am 14 Sep 15

miz said :

JC, Pretty sure I specified South Tuggers (Banks, Conder, Gordon). Rubyat, even the light rail guy on 666 a few weeks ago indicated his clear puzzlement at the choice to start light rail in Canberra with an obvious commuter route Not directly linking any major tourist hubs etc. he basically said it would only be viable if there is a real plan to build across the entire city – and we all know that will never happen because it will be j affordable, despite government protestations.
Look, I am very much pro- public transport (bus every day to work and have lived in other States) and am a naturally left leaning politically, but this light rail is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

What makes south Tuggernong so special it needs better buses to Woden. Other distant suburbs, West Belconnen, Gungahlin for example don’t have them either, so what is so special?

As for the light rail guy, he is very wrong, especially if he called the Gungahlin route a commuter route. A commuter route would be Belconnen to City or Tuggernanong/Woden to the city. The route to Gungahlin is pretty much suburban and it is viable because of the residential development that has taken place along the route. Elsewhere not viable at this stage.

But yeah does need to go into the triangle for the tourist access and for the workers who don’t work in the city.

miz 12:06 pm 13 Sep 15

JC, Pretty sure I specified South Tuggers (Banks, Conder, Gordon). Rubyat, even the light rail guy on 666 a few weeks ago indicated his clear puzzlement at the choice to start light rail in Canberra with an obvious commuter route Not directly linking any major tourist hubs etc. he basically said it would only be viable if there is a real plan to build across the entire city – and we all know that will never happen because it will be j affordable, despite government protestations.
Look, I am very much pro- public transport (bus every day to work and have lived in other States) and am a naturally left leaning politically, but this light rail is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

JC 10:08 am 13 Sep 15

miz said :

It would have been smarter to use light rail to link South Tuggers, which has poor services, to Woden (the geographic centre of Canberra).

Really? There are about 8-10 express buses an hour from Tuggernong to Woden off peak week day. About the same as there is from Belconnen to the City. Gungahlin to the City had 4 buses an hour. SO how many more buses do you want?

Or when you say Tuggernong are you talking Kambah, Wanniassa etc to Woden? Different story there, but no different to Harrison/Franklin to the City, Cook/Aranda to the city, or any inner north or inner south suburbs to the city.

And said it before but the light rail is NOT about servicing Gungahlin to Civic, it is there to service the corridor from Gungahlin to Civic, which as been build as a high density commuter route. Without that density along Athlon Drive and Adelaide Ave no point building it Tuggernon to Woden and the City or to Belconnen to City unless Belconnen way is developed with high density housing.

As opposed to the open routes that link Tuggernong, Woden, Civic and Belconnen.

rubaiyat 9:35 am 13 Sep 15

miz said :

It would have been smarter to use light rail to link South Tuggers, which has poor services, to Woden (the geographic centre of Canberra).

That truly would be nowhere to nowhere.

At least Gungahlin is from nowhere to somewhere with interesting stuff en route, and the already commenced infill, hotels, high rise and offices to add to that.

Sparse, distant suburban South Tuggeranong and bland, badly designed Woden will be what they are for a long time to come and may never change until a lot more growth and infill takes place.

It was a monumentally failed idea to give Canberra so many Town Centres, none of them big enough to get traction beyond suburban blandness. Typically the planners were doing a “Me too” from their uni days, just as they did with all the freeways, building them long after all the obvious problems with them had been demonstrated elsewhere.

Build on Canberra City as a real heart and reinforce the changes to consolidation and inner city living that is already apparent. Pretty obvious stuff, although not obvious to some.

rubaiyat 8:59 am 13 Sep 15

Just to prove that it isn’t reason that drives these arguments, up until only recently those against Light Rail were using the Gold Coast Light Rail as an example of why it should NOT go ahead in Canberra.

Given the obvious success of the GCLR even the local News Limited newspaper has switched tunes and now pretends it wasn’t white-anting and propagandising against it all along.

Where are the knee-jerk opposition going to go now? I’m hard put to think of where Light Rail hasn’t worked, whereas the demonstrated appalling failures of freeway construction abound everywhere.

rubaiyat 8:42 am 13 Sep 15

miz said :

Rubyat your comment about the Gold Coast tram is very misleading. The Gold Coast route supports loads of travellers including millions of tourists. The gunners tram is commuter-ville and will duplicate what is already the most well services public transport route in Canberra. It is costly and unnecessary.

As I have pointed out Canberra gets 4.5 million visitors a year and has actual offices and employment, not lots of retirees fleeing the southern cold.

I have also pointed out in amazing researched detail (unlike some who just say stuff) the ludicrous amounts of money being spent on roads and minor changes to existing roads, that only add to the traffic and pollution, with absolutely no return are what is truly “costly and unnecessary”.

It is a stupid argument to always say that everywhere is different, of course it is, that doesn’t make it not feasible here, or we would have absolutely no infrastructure, ever.

What we have in common however with the Gold Coast Light Rail is that it got exactly the same reaction from exactly the same demographic, old, mostly male, stuck in cars, no imagination, who despite being old can’t remember that EVERYTHING around them did not exist at one stage. Often the infrastructure preceded development, in fact in Canberra often by decades, in this case it will fill in much faster.

As I keep repeating the existing LIBERAL National Party Mayor in the Gold Coast was one of its most vocal critics and now is its most vocal supporter, because in an excellent choice of words he said “It has been a REALITY Study”! And it has proved to be even better and more successful than the planners hoped.

miz 5:09 pm 11 Sep 15

It would have been smarter to use light rail to link South Tuggers, which has poor services, to Woden (the geographic centre of Canberra).

miz 5:07 pm 11 Sep 15

Rubyat your comment about the Gold Coast tram is very misleading. The Gold Coast route supports loads of travellers including millions of tourists. The gunners tram is commuter-ville and will duplicate what is already the most well services public transport route in Canberra. It is costly and unnecessary.

chewy14 3:55 pm 11 Sep 15

rubaiyat said :

chewy14 said :

rubaiyat said :

I’m confused.

I was lead to believe by so many of the posters here that Tuggeranong was the very model of the ideal urban design.

Remote from the centre of the city, sprawling across the countryside far away from everywhere else, even its own town centre, broad expanses of expensive freeways the only mode of transport, impossible to get around without a car, and not just empty of any redeeming features but also devoid of life.

Just the way that those who chose it, want it.

Well it’s definitely better than most of the other new areas but definitely needs some infill densification around the major transport corridors and town centre.

The main problem however is the fact that West Murrumbidgee was never built leaving the town “centre” located on the fringe of the development area instead of in the middle where it was designed to be.

I wonder what could possibly fix that problem? Hmmmm.

Demolish the Brindabellas and sell it off as 420m2 blocks with cheek to cheek Macmansions?

Close, just missed it by about 20kms. And 420m2 blocks? Must be a luxury development then.

rubaiyat 3:02 pm 11 Sep 15

chewy14 said :

rubaiyat said :

I’m confused.

I was lead to believe by so many of the posters here that Tuggeranong was the very model of the ideal urban design.

Remote from the centre of the city, sprawling across the countryside far away from everywhere else, even its own town centre, broad expanses of expensive freeways the only mode of transport, impossible to get around without a car, and not just empty of any redeeming features but also devoid of life.

Just the way that those who chose it, want it.

Well it’s definitely better than most of the other new areas but definitely needs some infill densification around the major transport corridors and town centre.

The main problem however is the fact that West Murrumbidgee was never built leaving the town “centre” located on the fringe of the development area instead of in the middle where it was designed to be.

I wonder what could possibly fix that problem? Hmmmm.

Demolish the Brindabellas and sell it off as 420m2 blocks with cheek to cheek Macmansions?

rubaiyat 1:35 pm 11 Sep 15

Just looked up the stats for the Gold Coast Light Rail which runs 200 trams a day over a 19hr period from 0500 to midnight.

With over 18,200 passengers a day, and growing, that is 91 passengers per tram or 30% of their rated capacity.

As it stands the network can cater for 75,000 passengers a day with room to easily double that by running more frequent services or longer hours.

rubaiyat 1:06 pm 11 Sep 15

My mistake.

That solitary train fatality was for the whole of NSW not just Sydney.

rubaiyat 1:02 pm 11 Sep 15

As a measure of efficiency, standard rail uses 8.6% of the energy to move cargo than trucks.

That is due to the incredibly low friction of steel on steel.

Also the damage caused to the rights of way is equally as low with steel rails as opposed to heavy road vehicles due to the durable surface and smooth ride, with no brake damage on the pavement as with buses and trucks.

The calculation of energy used per passenger/km comes down to how much capacity of each vehicle is utilised. Also the figures are widely distorted by the tendency to quote US sources despite their statistics are not relevant to European/Australians public transport usage where it is seen as normal, not the last refugee of the impoverished.

Americans claim for example 1.55 occupants per car, which I found hard to believe when I was there, and 24.5 passengers per Light/Heavy Rail (whatever that was for. Per carriage?) There seemed to be just as few car passengers in the USA as here, where the research shows only 1.2 per car. Travelling last week regularly from Sydney’s Northern Beaches I found even that to be an exaggeration. Scarcely any cars had more than one occupant right in the middle of peak hour when the buses and trains were full.

There were also an alarming number of heavy 4WDs and SUVs, statistics show they are now the majority commuter car. Why do we even bother with roads? Just let them cut cross country!

Adjusting for a known rate of usage (Melbourne trams) of 55 – 98% rolling hour average, approx. 75% overall and the Australian car average of 1.2 occupants per vehicle, the US energy usage/passenger can be recalculated as:

Rail: 0.235 Mj per passenger km

Bus: 0.695 Mj per passenger km (based on Sydney ave passenger numbers being 4x US numbers)

Car: 2.995 Mj per passenger km

The ATOC report on transport in the UK calculates Passenger cars/taxis emit 86 x carbon emissions/passenger/km than rail.

Buses emit 6.5 x carbon emissions/passenger/km than rail.

btw In looking for these statistics I discovered that Sydney’s entire rail network, Commuter, Light Rail and Freight had 1 solitary fatality last year.

That’s the trouble with facts as opposed to “feelings”. They just ruin the Fairy Tales.

rubaiyat 11:25 am 11 Sep 15

MarkE said :

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

Put the two tracks of the Light Rail next to the multi-lanes of roads/freeways and see which uses the most steel and concrete:

Light Rail sleepers are only 2.5m wide and at 600mm centres, so only about 40% of the track area, weigh 280 kg and can be laid through grass. The rails weigh approx. 50 kg/m (200 kg/m for 2 tracks).

Sum total for the 2 Light Rail tracks is 929.6 tonnes of concrete sleepers and 200 tonnes for the rails per kilometre.

Total Light Rail 1130 tonnes/km.

Compare that to 4 lanes of freeway each 3.7m wide and approx. 28cm thick, plus the 2 extra emergency lane. Average 2.5 tonnes/m3 for reinforced concrete, 4 lanes + 2 laybys (3.7m x 6 x .28).

Total 4 lane freeway Freeway 6216 tonnes/km.

Light Rail vehicles can transport up to 270 people and weigh approx. 32 – 40 tonnes.

Replacing 4 – 5 buses which weigh 18 tonnes (2 axle) 25 tonnes (3 axle) approx 72 – 125 tonnes.

Replacing over 200 cars, half of which are 4WD/SUV to cater for the overweight drivers, approx. 300 tonnes.

This all ignores that the Light Rail tracks can transport as many passengers/hr as 24 lanes of freeway, and all in LESS space than two road lanes, which you can walk across with out being mown down.

A 24 lane freeway is over 110m wide and uses 49,728 tonnes/km of concrete.

JC 9:12 am 11 Sep 15

MarkE said :

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

How do we opt out of paying for the roads you use that I probably don’t?

Oh as for buses, Action uses steel framed ones, so a CO2 cost there plus the cost of carrying around that weight. Action looked at aluminium framed buses (mostly made by a company called Volgren) but has never changed to that style.

As for natural gas, no operator in Australia has had any new natural gas buses for about 4-5 years now (Brisbane Transport the last). The reason being natural gas is not as clean as it is made out to be and it’s cost has gone through the roof. Euro VI diesels are cleaner and electricity cleaner again. European bus makers have developed Euro VI gas engines which in theory should be on par with Euro VI diesels, but doubt we will see many here due to the cost of gas.

It surprises me though we don’t have more hybrid buses, best of both worlds when it comes to buses.

Oh when it comes to light rail, fact electricity generated using natural gas or diesel and then used to power an electric motor is cleaner than a combustion motor on a vehicle, as large scale power plants are more efficient at extracting the energy out of the fuel. Though in this part of the world the bulk of our power is coal and hydro, both of which are more efficient again.

rubaiyat 3:48 am 11 Sep 15

insider007 said :

Nilrem said :

MarkE said :

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

You will benefit from the reduction in people looking for parking in Civic. Maybe you could complain about the roads being paved in Belconnen, because you don’t get any benefit from that?

Nilrem said :

MarkE said :

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

You will benefit from the reduction in people looking for parking in Civic. Maybe you could complain about the roads being paved in Belconnen, because you don’t get any benefit from that?

Only paving don’t cost $800M.

Yes it does. All the gold plated road projects in the ACT have cost that much and more.

Pollute we must!

insider007 8:18 pm 10 Sep 15

Nilrem said :

MarkE said :

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

You will benefit from the reduction in people looking for parking in Civic. Maybe you could complain about the roads being paved in Belconnen, because you don’t get any benefit from that?

Nilrem said :

MarkE said :

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

You will benefit from the reduction in people looking for parking in Civic. Maybe you could complain about the roads being paved in Belconnen, because you don’t get any benefit from that?

Only paving don’t cost $800M.

Nilrem 2:53 pm 10 Sep 15

MarkE said :

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

You will benefit from the reduction in people looking for parking in Civic. Maybe you could complain about the roads being paved in Belconnen, because you don’t get any benefit from that?

MarkE 2:23 pm 10 Sep 15

One thing they won’t miss out on it the opportunity to pay for Gungahlin’s light rail. Phase 1 will cost $870M according to the Canberra Times. According to the ABS there are 151,000 households in the ACT so this Labor/Greens government will extort $5,166 plus interest plus the ongoing operating losses from every household in the ACT .

That is just great. My family gets to pay more than $5,166 through extra rates and charges for a light rail system we will never use. HOW DO WE OPT OUT?

While the morons who govern the ACT talk about 90% renewable energy at extra cost to all of us. Have they thought about how much CO2 will be released in the manufacture of the steel and concrete to be used in the light rail project? Compared to some extra bus lanes and buses running on natural gas it will take centuries to break even on emissions with the bus alternative.

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