Does Canberra need the ACT? [With Poll]

Diggety said :

Yes, soon after we sell all our public are to VIC, but not before the NSW mess is cleaned up from the previous government.

My preferred option would be to increase the size of ACT with statehood to include South-West Slopes, South Coast, Illawarra (maybe) and Southern Tablelands. Some of the most beautiful parts of the country.

Expand tourism, more (modern) agriculture and improve road transport, along with including a fast rail link through the guts of it. Build two AP1000 nuclear reactors on the coast, along with a nuclear research facility working on GenIV reactors. Get a diverse industry going to supplement the public service and increase the population in outlying towns.

I reckon I could make a great state out of all that.

Oh and only one law: men are not allowed to sit cross-legged drinking soy lattes in lycra with a hyper-inflated ego, judging people you’ve never met. Punishment: death.

I agree with this. I understand why people more to Queanbeyan, but lets face it they require each other. Queanbeyan would be a bigger shithole than it is, if the National Capital wasn’t next door. The same applies to the south coast. Just expand the territory, include the snowys and south coast. That way we have a large enough economy to not rely solely as a developer funded government.

Tetranitrate said :

…The only way something like it might happen is if the Federal Government gets fed up with how the ACT government has been effectively captured by landlords, developers and the real estate lobby.
-as the cost of living spirals up and up, it feeds through into wage claims in the public sector that the Feds can’t really say no to as long as they’re somewhat reasonable, as protracted industrial action would grind the government to a halt. It cost more to rent here than Sydney for goodness sake, let alone the more affordable capitals – it’s a total joke for a city of 360,000. This ‘city’ is so spread out, with so much unused space that it ought to be comparable to the smaller cities (Geelong, Newcastle, ect) and outer Suburbs of the capitals – yet everywhere, even in the fringes of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin is absurdly expensive. Tiny little hovels out the back of Dunlop are $450+ a week.

Of course since the Federal and pretty much all state governments go in to bat for the same special interests everybody else be damned, the only way the ACT could become a ‘problem’ is the modus operandi changes nation wide but the ACT is left behind – but it is beginning to look a bit like that, the clowns that rule us presently could engineer a beer shortage in a brewery.

Perfectly summed up. Post of the year.

Personally I think there needs to be major constitutional reform, and greater consideration to a federated nation. How many layers of government do we need? I cant see that we have to population as a nation to support it either. We are in the 21st century now, not the 1900’s. Things have changed and we are not really part of the Empire anymore. Just my $0.02.

Merle said :

Does anyone really want BOF in charge of the ACT?

As opposed to the last mob?

I’m sure he’s singled out simply because he’s the one in charge right now, but nuts to both mobs equally.

A bit of fun.

screaming banshee said :

Which is precisely why we need to vote in more indepedants.

Well, we’ve got the right electoral system for it. The absence of independents in the assembly says a lot.

amarooresident3 said :

bitzermaloney said :

On a plus… I can guarantee that if Canberra was part of NSW and obviously vote in NSW elections, the roads to both Batemans Bay and Yass would be upgraded to dual-lane (as much as realistically possible) within a couple years.

I wouldn’t count on it – the decades long saga of the on again off again upgrades to the Pacific Highway would suggest that road funding is as bad if not worse in NSW than it is here.

You fail to understand that Northern NSW is predominately Nation/Liberal territory, Canberra Labor territory & the South coast are Swingers. Given a bit of pork barrelling and vote buying it will happen much faster. In norther NSW it wouldn’t make a scrap of difference to the pollies cause the seats tend not to swing, hence vote buying and pork barrellign acheives nothing.

PM said :

I’d prefer to see the ACT bondaries expanded to take in towns like Yass and Quangers.

F##k no. I live in Quangers so that I don’t have to put up with all the BS that the ACT Council creates. In addition to this, Quangers and Yass would just be left to rot like Oaks Estate and several other areas of the ACT where the council doesn’t think they can buy votes so they don’t care.

Although I bet if Tralee was within the ACT borders it would be approved in a heartbeat once the ACT Council realises how much money they would make.

The next question is, how do you manage things like property titles. There is no chance that I am handing over my freehold title to the ACT Council wthout very substantial compensation.

screaming banshee said :

Which is precisely why we need to vote in more indepedants.

Yes because Paul Osborne, Dave Rugendyke et al did such a wonderful job

Which is precisely why we need to vote in more indepedants.

Usermane said :

Comrade, I fully support your view. Eliminating the sovereign states would certainly make it much easier to impose diktats on the population without disagreeable things like having to go past elected officials with actual authority over the subject of the diktat. I can almost imagine myself drafting the five year plans, with the plush pile carpet under my toes as I sit in my new mansion paid for by the strangely generous gifts from interested parties who only wanted a few little morsels sent their way from the collective coffers.

Maybe I could be the man in charge of approving new things. All of them. I could personally turn on and off the economies of entire regions. Today, some crummy little town in Tasmania gets an enormous new hospital. Tomorrow, Penrith wants a new school.. oh, they voted for the other guy and gee whiz, the money just ran out. I hate when that happens. (Of course, a generous donation to The Party might get things chugging along). The entire western half of Australia voted for the libs? And someone wants to put a new mine out there? Tell ’em they’re dreaming. No jobs for you, suckers. Choose your votes more carefully next time…

I kinda think *some* things should be more standardised across Aust; three tiers is overkill for many. Also, it seems stupid having slightly different leglislation across the jurisdictions for many things. And remember how well the states played when setting up train tracks across Aust originally…..

I’vethought this for some time. However, rather than playing with the borders, I suggest moving the ACT, lock stock and barrel, to another part of NSW. Obvious choices:

Albury – they’ve previously been semi-autonomous (until the Sydney power brokers panicked)
New England – should have been mae into a new state long ago.
the Corner Country – IIRC Tim Flannery wants a city built there to exploit the natural resources underneath.

The last NSW election has swept away a lot of rubbish, we should see a marked improvement in the quality of NSW pollies: between Labourites being gaoled and newbie Libs in marginal seats needing to make a name for themselves to avoid being kicked out by the most minor swing.

trevar said :

The problem isn’t the existence of the ACT; the problem is that good ole Henry Parkes failed to properly unite the colonies into a country, and settled merely for a Federation. State governments in their entirety are nothing more than an expensive legacy of our colonial history that does even less good for us than our monarchy. State governments make national progress impossible. The ACT already has a vastly better system because the problematic and worthless middle layer of government is merged with the local.

Best solution is not to abolish the ACT or enlarge it, but to abolish all the other states, and replace our semi-successful federation of self-aggrandising, parochial colonies with a genuinely unified nation. Then the independence of the capital’s civil government is moot, and instead of just eliminating the duplication of administration between two governments, we could eliminate the same duplication across all nine governments.

Comrade, I fully support your view. Eliminating the sovereign states would certainly make it much easier to impose diktats on the population without disagreeable things like having to go past elected officials with actual authority over the subject of the diktat. I can almost imagine myself drafting the five year plans, with the plush pile carpet under my toes as I sit in my new mansion paid for by the strangely generous gifts from interested parties who only wanted a few little morsels sent their way from the collective coffers.

Maybe I could be the man in charge of approving new things. All of them. I could personally turn on and off the economies of entire regions. Today, some crummy little town in Tasmania gets an enormous new hospital. Tomorrow, Penrith wants a new school.. oh, they voted for the other guy and gee whiz, the money just ran out. I hate when that happens. (Of course, a generous donation to The Party might get things chugging along). The entire western half of Australia voted for the libs? And someone wants to put a new mine out there? Tell ’em they’re dreaming. No jobs for you, suckers. Choose your votes more carefully next time…

I think our Greens would provide a refreshing counterpoint to the Fred Nile/Shooter Party Nutbag Allstars in the NSW Senate.

trevar said :

Best solution is not to abolish the ACT or enlarge it, but to abolish all the other states, and replace our semi-successful federation of self-aggrandising, parochial colonies with a genuinely unified nation. Then the independence of the capital’s civil government is moot, and instead of just eliminating the duplication of administration between two governments, we could eliminate the same duplication across all nine governments.

The issue is not with the federal model – which is the one followed in the US, Germany, France, Switzerland, Canada, and most other places that Australians would like to live in if Australia didn’t exist. It’s with the execution of that model and the expansion of federal powers into areas like primary and secondary school education which previously were the sole domain of the States/Territories and are now looked after by both levels of gov’t. Like you say, too much duplication. Not to mention the gov’t trying to do everything for everyone rather than doing the bare minimum and letting people live their own lives.

toriness said :

most importantly it would be doing SMH a huge disservice in removing/reducing their ability to slag off canberra hollus-bollus by integrating into NSW.

I’m surprised that anyone actually still reads that f–king rag. I don’t think its website has featured an actual news story all year, in between the three million articles about the Occupy movement, the latest celebrity gossip, Wikileaks, and the usual Sydney navel-gazing.

Keep dreaming.

Hanksinatra said :

Johnboy patience is all you need. Carism witll fill the whole of the ACT well before the bones are chewed on your item. For the record though may I ask riot act readers whether a dormitory suburb refers to a geographical circumstance or to a state of mind?

A dormitory suburb is one where the camels are stabled.

Johnboy patience is all you need. Carism witll fill the whole of the ACT well before the bones are chewed on your item. For the record though may I ask riot act readers whether a dormitory suburb refers to a geographical circumstance or to a state of mind?

trevar said :

…Best solution is not to abolish the ACT or enlarge it, but to abolish all the other states, and replace our semi-successful federation of self-aggrandising, parochial colonies with a genuinely unified nation. Then the independence of the capital’s civil government is moot, and instead of just eliminating the duplication of administration between two governments, we could eliminate the same duplication across all nine governments.

You nailed it Trevar. Much of the work my (Commonwealth) department does is replicated in every other state, to no good purpose. The states are an anachronism; a throwback to the days of slow transport and communication and interstate rivalries.

The ACT Government could actually set an example to the rest – give up those functions which should be national concerns – Education, Health, Law/Justice – and concentrate on local issues. Who knows? Out of the thousands of politicians suddenly unemployed, the nation might get at least one set of talented people.

I wouldn’t hold my breath though…

Deref said :

No matter how bad our lot are, they shine like beacons of of brilliance in comparison to the NSW parliament.

JB i like your conceptual idea of achieving better efficiencies in governance and expenditure but seriously, we as Canberrans/Territorians do not want to be held ransom to the Sydney (sorry, NSW) government. you can pretty much guarantee expenditure on the ACT region would drop if NSW govt got its mitts on taxes extracted from ACT residents – instead that money being spent on a new pergola out the back of the opera house.

most importantly it would be doing SMH a huge disservice in removing/reducing their ability to slag off canberra hollus-bollus by integrating into NSW.

Certain parts of fyshwich would have to be within the ACT

The problem isn’t the existence of the ACT; the problem is that good ole Henry Parkes failed to properly unite the colonies into a country, and settled merely for a Federation. State governments in their entirety are nothing more than an expensive legacy of our colonial history that does even less good for us than our monarchy. State governments make national progress impossible. The ACT already has a vastly better system because the problematic and worthless middle layer of government is merged with the local.

Best solution is not to abolish the ACT or enlarge it, but to abolish all the other states, and replace our semi-successful federation of self-aggrandising, parochial colonies with a genuinely unified nation. Then the independence of the capital’s civil government is moot, and instead of just eliminating the duplication of administration between two governments, we could eliminate the same duplication across all nine governments.

I’d prefer to see the ACT bondaries expanded to take in towns like Yass and Quangers.

Possibly worse is the vast duplication of effort the ACT goes through to reproduce all levels of bureaucracy. Things that at the senior (most expensive) level could be done by a person in Sydney for almost no extra cost (because they’re already doing it for the many regions of NSW).

The same could be said for all states in many areas, why have a nsw education dept, vic education dept sa education dept, act education dept, wa education dept, qld education dept, tas education dept. Why cant the shit that all states have, which is pretty much everything, be managed centrally. Why does everything have to be duplicated.

I’m for removing the middle managers of state governance and leaving federal govt to run the national stuff and local councils to collect the trash.

On topic, if we do become part of NSW, F*&k that, I’m off to WA

Diggety said :

Build two AP1000 nuclear reactors on the coast, along with a nuclear research facility working on GenIV reactors.

You’ve got my vote.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

the problem is that we would be governed by the NSW parliament. I know our lot aren’t great, but really?

This

+1

Does anyone really want BOF in charge of the ACT?

colourful sydney racing identity said :

the problem is that we would be governed by the NSW parliament. I know our lot aren’t great, but really?

Canberra would be put well down the list after Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong. I can’t see the NSW Nationals being very happy about money being spent on another city rather than traditional regional interests. The only growth sector under NSW rule would be Canberra bashing.

bitzermaloney said :

Interesting sugestion, and one which our chief dictator and left-leaning idealists would be opposed to as they’d suddenly find themselves with a challenge to justify their positions.

On a plus… I can guarantee that if Canberra was part of NSW and obviously vote in NSW elections, the roads to both Batemans Bay and Yass would be upgraded to dual-lane (as much as realistically possible) within a couple years.

I wouldn’t count on it – the decades long saga of the on again off again upgrades to the Pacific Highway would suggest that road funding is as bad if not worse in NSW than it is here.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

Diggety said :

Johnboy, you’ve got my mind racing!

Judging from your previous post, I’m not sure that is a good thing…

I must ask…

Was it the ‘selling to public art to Vic’ or the ‘nuclear power plants’ that you didn’t like?

colourful sydney racing identity said :

the problem is that we would be governed by the NSW parliament. I know our lot aren’t great, but really?

This

Diggety said :

Johnboy, you’ve got my mind racing!

Judging from your previous post, I’m not sure that is a good thing…

Very nice work johnboy.

This is why I read the-RiotACT.

Johnboy, you’ve got my mind racing!

Yes, soon after we sell all our public are to VIC, but not before the NSW mess is cleaned up from the previous government.

My preferred option would be to increase the size of ACT with statehood to include South-West Slopes, South Coast, Illawarra (maybe) and Southern Tablelands. Some of the most beautiful parts of the country.

Expand tourism, more (modern) agriculture and improve road transport, along with including a fast rail link through the guts of it. Build two AP1000 nuclear reactors on the coast, along with a nuclear research facility working on GenIV reactors. Get a diverse industry going to supplement the public service and increase the population in outlying towns.

I reckon I could make a great state out of all that.

Oh and only one law: men are not allowed to sit cross-legged drinking soy lattes in lycra with a hyper-inflated ego, judging people you’ve never met. Punishment: death.

Governed by NSW Ltd? No thanks. Canberra would be just another regional centre not worth the upkeep (or the fact-finding trip outside Sydney) to buy the votes.

johnboy said :

Who knows, maybe some candidates could take it to the election?

Have enough people forgotten what happened with the “No Self Government” candidates, do you think?

Good policy can be debated absent of good politicians.

Who knows, maybe some candidates could take it to the election?

The only problem is who would lose out? The entire political class in the ACT and associated drinking buddies in the form of agency heads, Territory charity bosses, leechers, gougers, and spivs growing fat on the expensive waste of self government.
The establishment is pretty self satisfied with the current state of play.

And this is why it won’t happen.

The only way something like it might happen is if the Federal Government gets fed up with how the ACT government has been effectively captured by landlords, developers and the real estate lobby.
-as the cost of living spirals up and up, it feeds through into wage claims in the public sector that the Feds can’t really say no to as long as they’re somewhat reasonable, as protracted industrial action would grind the government to a halt. It cost more to rent here than Sydney for goodness sake, let alone the more affordable capitals – it’s a total joke for a city of 360,000. This ‘city’ is so spread out, with so much unused space that it ought to be comparable to the smaller cities (Geelong, Newcastle, ect) and outer Suburbs of the capitals – yet everywhere, even in the fringes of Tuggeranong and Gungahlin is absurdly expensive. Tiny little hovels out the back of Dunlop are $450+ a week.

Of course since the Federal and pretty much all state governments go in to bat for the same special interests everybody else be damned, the only way the ACT could become a ‘problem’ is the modus operandi changes nation wide but the ACT is left behind – but it is beginning to look a bit like that, the clowns that rule us presently could engineer a beer shortage in a brewery.

At least the teachers would get pay parity with NSW
🙂

Interesting sugestion, and one which our chief dictator and left-leaning idealists would be opposed to as they’d suddenly find themselves with a challenge to justify their positions.

On a plus… I can guarantee that if Canberra was part of NSW and obviously vote in NSW elections, the roads to both Batemans Bay and Yass would be upgraded to dual-lane (as much as realistically possible) within a couple years.

johnboy said :

colourful sydney racing identity said :

the problem is that we would be governed by the NSW parliament. I know our lot aren’t great, but really?

And which laws of NSW do you consider unacceptably inequitable?

None that immediately spring to mind. My conern is more related to the peole that are elected to represent New South Wales.

Also, regardless of any changes we would still be considered Canberrans and would be a popular whipping boy.

No matter how bad our lot are, they shine like beacons of of brilliance in comparison to the NSW parliament.

colourful sydney racing identity said :

the problem is that we would be governed by the NSW parliament. I know our lot aren’t great, but really?

And which laws of NSW do you consider unacceptably inequitable?

What does it matter? What we collectively choose as a territory or city means nothing as was proven when we got self government against our expressed wishes.

the problem is that we would be governed by the NSW parliament. I know our lot aren’t great, but really?

You hear the old timers saying how good things were pre 1988 and I do remember the roads being much better in the early 90s