59 % of Canberra restaurants screwing their staff?

neanderthalsis said :

International students are subject to the same workplace laws as the rest of us.

I never claimed otherwise. Why do you keep repeating this as though you’re correcting some kind of misconception? nobody has claimed that international students are not subject to the same workplace laws as everybody else.

neanderthalsis said :

The same applies to the international students themselves. International students, depending on their visa, can only work for a maximum of 40 hrs a fortnight; I have seen more than a few that take on a job for those 40 hrs, but then take on another job without informing either employer. In that case, both employers are acting illegally as they are in breach of the work rights of that visa class.

Sure, what’s your point?
I note that you’re now conceding that it is commonplace for the law to be ignored. (not that the OP doesn’t make that clear already)

neanderthalsis said :

They are indeed. But there are those who wish to perpetuate the whole “them foreigners what come over here and take our jobs and work for $2 a day and rice” myth. Unfortunately one of them happens to be the federal Immigration Minister.

neanderthalsis said :

best be getting on with filling in your IWW membership application.

Seriously? So expecting that minimum wages, penalty rates, casual loadings and other basic protections and entitlements are adhered to, and/or being peeved when it turns out that they are being rampantly and blatantly ignored makes a person a Nazi-Communist?

dungfungus said :

eyeLikeCarrots said :

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

I wold have thought that international students on the relevent, valid visa with a right to work would be entitled to the same legal rights as any australian citizen ?

Everyone knows that an Australian Student Visa is just another way to get into Australia for work – it rarely has anything to do with education. And they do work for $5.00 per hour as you point out. The owners of the restaurants are usually from the same country as the workers.
It’s a racket not unlike the identured by force workers who were sent to work in the Australian goldfields by Chinese warlords 150 years ago.

I wasn’t sure about how correct your were on the early Chinese gold fieldworkers but you do appear to be correct:

These Chinese were nearly all men (38,337 men and only eleven women!) and most were under contract to Chinese and foreign businessmen. In exchange for their passage money, they worked on the goldfields until their debt was paid off.

http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/australian-story/austn-gold-rush

+1 Internet Credit for knowing your history.

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

They are indeed. But there are those who wish to perpetuate the whole “them foreigners what come over here and take our jobs and work for $2 a day and rice” myth. Unfortunately one of them happens to be the federal Immigration Minister.

Oh please. Go ask international students working at the various cafes around civic what they’re being paid. If you really want I can suggest a couple of places.

International students are subject to the same workplace laws as the rest of us. While there are some employers who willingly and knowingly break the rules, they are in the minority.

The same applies to the international students themselves. International students, depending on their visa, can only work for a maximum of 40 hrs a fortnight; I have seen more than a few that take on a job for those 40 hrs, but then take on another job without informing either employer. In that case, both employers are acting illegally as they are in breach of the work rights of that visa class.

If you have evidence of illegal working arrangements, please feel free to pass that information on to the FWO. If not, best be getting on with filling in your IWW membership application.

dungfungus said :

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

So, are you going to black ban every cafe and restaurant in the country if they can’t produce the wages book with the correct amounts for you to peruse with the menu? If I were you, I would get used to packing your lunch at home from now on as a contingency plan.

What exactly is it that you’re trying to say here?
That those who think minimum wage laws and the like should be universally enforced should go out of their way at every moment in their lives to do it themselves? something else equally stupid?

neanderthalsis said :

They are indeed. But there are those who wish to perpetuate the whole “them foreigners what come over here and take our jobs and work for $2 a day and rice” myth. Unfortunately one of them happens to be the federal Immigration Minister.

Oh please. Go ask international students working at the various cafes around civic what they’re being paid. If you really want I can suggest a couple of places.

eyeLikeCarrots said :

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

I wold have thought that international students on the relevent, valid visa with a right to work would be entitled to the same legal rights as any australian citizen ?

As far as minimum wages, ect go – of course. Do they know these rights? generally not.
Do they have any bargaining power at all? hell no.
Are they rampantly exploited by business owners, largely of their own nationality? hell yes.

Also they’re technically meant to be limited to 40 hours/fortnight while their course is in session.
http://www.immi.gov.au/students/students/working_while_studying/
http://www.immi.gov.au/students/_pdf/permission-to-work-students.pdf

and in 99% of cases it’s a genuine mistake. what’s the bet most places when they found they were underpaying staff went “whoops and sorry about that – here is your pay”
I think you would find most places submitted their time and wage records willingly as they though “I’m paying staff correctly so the govt can look through these”

Having been on both sides of the fence: Most people submit their records willingly and if an employee checks the relevant awards and notices that they are underpaid and takes it too their boss the boss is usually willing to fix it without it being escalated.

Boss’s aren’t horrible people trying to take advantage of their staff in most cases

neanderthalsis said :

eyeLikeCarrots said :

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

I wold have thought that international students on the relevent, valid visa with a right to work would be entitled to the same legal rights as any australian citizen ?

They are indeed. But there are those who wish to perpetuate the whole “them foreigners what come over here and take our jobs and work for $2 a day and rice” myth. Unfortunately one of them happens to be the federal Immigration Minister.

They took our jerbs!

eyeLikeCarrots said :

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

I wold have thought that international students on the relevent, valid visa with a right to work would be entitled to the same legal rights as any australian citizen ?

They are indeed. But there are those who wish to perpetuate the whole “them foreigners what come over here and take our jobs and work for $2 a day and rice” myth. Unfortunately one of them happens to be the federal Immigration Minister.

eyeLikeCarrots said :

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

I wold have thought that international students on the relevent, valid visa with a right to work would be entitled to the same legal rights as any australian citizen ?

Everyone knows that an Australian Student Visa is just another way to get into Australia for work – it rarely has anything to do with education. And they do work for $5.00 per hour as you point out. The owners of the restaurants are usually from the same country as the workers.
It’s a racket not unlike the identured by force workers who were sent to work in the Australian goldfields by Chinese warlords 150 years ago.

gungsuperstar said :

neanderthalsis said :

They aren’t difficult to understand. The only people who say otherwise are conservatives throwing out a firthy (read: a lie) because they don’t believe in some of the youngest and poorest workers in Australia being adequately compensated for working rubbish hours and giving up their work life balance to do so.

dungfungus said :

So, are you going to black ban every cafe and restaurant in the country if they can’t produce the wages book with the correct amounts for you to peruse with the menu? If I were you, I would get used to packing your lunch at home from now on as a contingency plan.

dungfungus said :

No doubt the Fair Work Ombudsman will be passing on the names and the addresses of all the affected workers to the ATO so that that agency can check that all under award monies they have been previously paid in cash and their impemding “windfall” payment has been declared?
The same people that applaud this enforcement of penalty rates will be the first to whinge when they go to their favourite noshery for a lazy Sunday morning brunch and get a bill about 30% higher than normal if indeed the establishment is opened anymore on weekends or public holidays.

Lol

c_c™ said :

Rioters may recall the owner of the Holy Grail got hauled before the Federal Court for underpaying his staff, a couple of whom were family members! Either a real SOB doing that deliberately, or there’s some genuine incompetence in the hospitality industry causing “confusion”.

At the same time this Holy Grail matter happened, a certain club in Belconnen was using closely supervised hospitatlity “workers” in their restaurant who were delivered and collected each evening via a bus with diplomatic plates. I can’t say any more about this but the resturant was one which had fried rice on the menu.
I am however sure that the club, which is a citadel for the working man, was paying the workers correctly.

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

I wold have thought that international students on the relevent, valid visa with a right to work would be entitled to the same legal rights as any australian citizen ?

Tetranitrate said :

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

So, are you going to black ban every cafe and restaurant in the country if they can’t produce the wages book with the correct amounts for you to peruse with the menu? If I were you, I would get used to packing your lunch at home from now on as a contingency plan.

No doubt the Fair Work Ombudsman will be passing on the names and the addresses of all the affected workers to the ATO so that that agency can check that all under award monies they have been previously paid in cash and their impemding “windfall” payment has been declared?
The same people that applaud this enforcement of penalty rates will be the first to whinge when they go to their favourite noshery for a lazy Sunday morning brunch and get a bill about 30% higher than normal if indeed the establishment is opened anymore on weekends or public holidays.

neanderthalsis said :

throw in international students with limited work rights

This is the major factor.
International students basically serve as slave-labor for the hospitality industry – it’s extremely commonplace for cafes, restaurants and the like to ‘hire’ them cash in hand for $10/hour or less.
It’s absolutely rampant in all Australian capital cities.

neanderthalsis said :

I’d be willing to wager that the vast majority of breaches were due to confusion around penalty rates .

Scarcely have I read such crap – and as someone who frequents the Riot Act most days, it’s a big call.

Am I to believe that a restaurant owner can operate a business, pay tax, roster staff, find good staff (particularly kitchen staff) – but they can’t understand penalty rates?

They aren’t difficult to understand. The only people who say otherwise are conservatives throwing out a firthy (read: a lie) because they don’t believe in some of the youngest and poorest workers in Australia being adequately compensated for working rubbish hours and giving up their work life balance to do so.

I’d be interested in any numbers that exist about workplaces that are more prone to ripping off their staff – I’d bet my last dollar that employers with either young staff (such as restaurants) or with a high proportion of Indigenous staff are ripping off their staff much more than most.

Jim Jones said :

Ben_Dover said :

Jim Jones said :

Funny how the “confusion” never leads to anybody being overpaid.

Are you certain?

“After the audit almost $280,000 was repaid to 482 workers”.

Kinda speaks for itself, dunnit?

Ermmm……. No.

It states nothing about “never leads to anybody being overpaid”. It only states that some, not all, were underpaid.

c_c™ said :

Rioters may recall the owner of the Holy Grail got hauled before the Federal Court for underpaying his staff, a couple of whom were family members! Either a real SOB doing that deliberately, or there’s some genuine incompetence in the hospitality industry causing “confusion”.

I’m inclined to think that it is the award and the working nature of the industry itself that causes much of the confusion along with small business owners that are not all that good at the “business” side of running a business. When you have staff working split shifts, penalty rates in lieu of not having a mandatory break, shifts that transition pay rates, public holidays and days in lieu in public holidays and throw in international students with limited work rights; it can get a little confusing.

Ben_Dover said :

Jim Jones said :

Funny how the “confusion” never leads to anybody being overpaid.

Are you certain?

“After the audit almost $280,000 was repaid to 482 workers”.

Kinda speaks for itself, dunnit?

In more ways than one!

Rioters may recall the owner of the Holy Grail got hauled before the Federal Court for underpaying his staff, a couple of whom were family members! Either a real SOB doing that deliberately, or there’s some genuine incompetence in the hospitality industry causing “confusion”.

Jim Jones said :

Funny how the “confusion” never leads to anybody being overpaid.

Are you certain?

Frankly I’m surprised the number is as low as 59%…

Jim Jones said :

Funny how the “confusion” never leads to anybody being overpaid.

Only CEOs.

Funny how the “confusion” never leads to anybody being overpaid.

I’d be willing to wager that the vast majority of breaches were due to confusion around penalty rates .