Pocock power play calls for light rail rethink, questions infrastructure priorities

“The light rail to woden is purely to offset the fact that the Liberals push the whole idea the southside gets shafted in funding and projects”

If you are right and the light rail to Woden is purely for political reasons, then surely it raises some broader questions for you.

As an aside, I agree with you on the Tuggeranong point. A light rail journey that will take an hour to get from Tuggeranong town centre to work in Civic isn’t solving any public transport issues and is even more likely to push Tuggeranong residents into cars. A dedicated bus lane from Glenloch interchange to Civic would solve a lot of public transport issues for both west Belconnen and Tuggeranong.

Where do you get the idea that it will take an hour to get from Tuggeranong town centre to Civic? I haven’t seen that figure published anywhere.

A transport spokesman said almost 30 minutes travel to Woden and you would assume the same time to travel another 12kms to Tuggeranong.

Current stage 1 takes a bit under 30 mins to travel the flat grade 12km from Gungahlin to Civic, so the steep gradient in and out of Tuggeranong will probably take something similar.

A transport spokesman said stage 2 will take almost 30 minutes travel to Woden, you would assume roughly the same time to travel another 12kms to Tuggeranong.

Current stage 1 takes a bit under 30 mins to travel the flat grade 12km from Gungahlin to Civic, so the steep gradient in and out of Tuggeranong will probably take something similar.

It takes an Action bus about an hour (including stops) and buses are 50% faster that trams.

A couple of corrections. Transport estimates between 25 to 30 minutes, not 30 minutes. You would not assume that it would take the same time to travel another 12ks to Tuggeranong as it’s a different route. so there is currently no projected time for Stage 4.

The ACT government also took a new Civic stadium and a new major Ice Sports facility in Tuggeranong to the last few elections.

These elections weren’t referendums on just Light Rail, there were many other factors that defined peoples votes (including an inept Liberal Party controlled by right wingers like Coe) and Mr Barr shouldn’t be able to simply cherry pick which election promises are delivered or not delivered.

Estelle,
Those elections don’t confirm overwhelming support for LR. In a left-leaning town, the current Government has been and will continue to be elected every election, regardless of its policies. The only difference will be how many Greens join them in their alliance.

LR Stage 1 had some advantages. There was traffic congestion out of Gungahlin and along Northbourne. LR relieved that and it’s travel speed was assisted by road speed limits of 60kph and sequencing of traffic lights, giving LR priority. With the removal of bus services along the route, LR was always going to be utilised by commuters.
The same can’t be said of 2A or 2. Beyond Parliament House, there are no traffic lights until Woden and with LR travelling at 70kph, buses at 80kph are a significantly faster means of public transport.
The other issue of course is that from a public transport perspective, LR will again require a change to the bus network, so that it can feed passengers into the service along the way, further slowing the speed.
As a form of public transport going south, LR just doesn’t stack up. No one wants to increase their commute time and that’s what is on offer.

No matter what people think of light rail the government has successfully taken it to the last 3 elections. It is hypocritical for David Pocock to argue for territory rights in relation to some issues but use his key vote to win funding for his favoured projects at light rail’s expense. The last thing I think Canberrans want is another senator who interferes in the territory’s political processes. Mr Pocock has been doing the rounds of community meetings and good for him. But I will remind him that Canberrans have consistently voted for Light Rail and I suggest he butt out!!

Well that’s completely untrue

ACT Labor has not won a majority of seats since 2004, that’s hardly overwhelming support

Support for the Liberals in Canberra only trails Labor by a bit.

Estelle,
Your comment makes no sense when Pocock also took his infrastructure priorities to the last election and won. By your own argument he is well within his rights to lobby for his commitments which didn’t include light rail.

So if you think Canberrans actually voted for light rail, how come they voted for Pocock and his predecessor Zed, who both seemingly weren’t fans of the project? It’s almost like people don’t vote on single issues, isn’t it.

The local government is free to spend our money as they want to, Pocock can’t stop them.

But if Barr is asking for Federal funding, how is Pocock not actually better placed to make his case, seeing as that is the level of government that he is elected to?

Although perhaps instead of this politically biased attempts to lobby for specific infrastructure projects, we let Infrastructure Australia provide the priorities based upon their robust assessment process?

Weird idea huh?

Hardly overwhelming public support at 37% . That’s 60% against.

Do I need to remind you how badly the Libs did at the last ACT election? Confidence within the party is so low and members (those that haven’t already left) believe the party will do even worse at the next election. Not only did the Libs lose two of their most high profile members, Elizabeth Lee couldn’t even muster a quota with preferences. Despite this she was rewarded with the leadership!

Squeaky wheels!!! If you’re going to quote figures lyndeelu tell us where you got them from. Figures from thin air I suspect!!!

Except buses can and are meeting the demand faster than light rail on the same stage 2 route will. A demand that is massively reduced due to the changed working conditions created by Covid.

The government’s own (highly questionable) business case only identifies minimal transport benefits along the route.

So yes, the facts are simple, just in the opposite direction that you claim.

Agree with you bigred but using terms to put down those citizens you consider below you as riff raff and an elected government you disagree with as yokels!!

Bigred, it sounds like you work for the big red tram with your advocacy that is contrary to most people’s views, including those of southside residents and the auditor general.

so Chewy, please explain the parlous performance of the bus network away so your illogical claim can be understood. The facts are that the bus network is running at around 60% reliability and has many, many complaints about vehicles not turning up, or leaving early and the absolute terrible driving.

Yes, the business case was highly questionable and should be done for the entire stage 2. And why should it just cover transport benefits?

I used the term “riff raff” to describe the attitude of the Deakin residents, not mine. I stand by the use of “ÿokels”

Bigred,
We are only talking about 1 route here, not the entire bus network.

Provide some evidence that the express bus routes city to woden has low reliability and mountains of complaints. I’ll wait.

And I never said the business case should only include transport benefits, but as a nominally public transport project you would think that it should provide significant transport benefits to the community don’t you?

But if it’s mainly around land development benefits:
a) there are other options that can deliver similar benefits, far cheaper
b) light rail isn’t actually needed until the land development has progressed significantly
c) why on earth should all taxpayers be conscripted to pay for something that only benefits a tiny amount of already wealthy people.

If it’s a land development project, it should be funded through value capture taxes, because the social benefit of the project is so low.

Surely the parlous state of the bus service is in large part due to the 2019 redesign of the bus network to fit in with light rail stage 1.

Bus use dropped 5% in Tuggeranong, Woden and Belconnen even before Covid struck, and Canberra Transport couldn’t provide enough bus drivers to deliver the new network even before any sickness started to hit staff.

and so says someone who clearly never catches a bus along that corridor. I do quite often, and let me tell you something for free: it is a frightening experience! 100 people or so on an articulated bus doing 90 km/h plus or minus a little bit jostling for position with Australia’s worst drivers provides me with absolutely no confidence. If it is the driver’s last run before a break, it is even more frentic.

Bigred,
*buzz* wrong again.

I’ve caught the bus on that route regularly over the years and never seen anything like what you’re suggesting. It’s fast and efficient, mostly on straight sections of road, there’s only a few turns involved.

I asked for data, not your personal anecdotes which are as meaningless as my own.

Also ironic that there would be far more people “jostling for position” on the light rail if it were built as it has significantly more people standing than the buses do.

Although you’re right, it would be a slower and smoother ride but that’s not worth the 1billion+ price tag.

That’s a ridiculous claim. I have caught the R4 and R5 many times between family in the south, me in the centre and civic in the north.

Did you raise your concerns with Transport Canberra?

If I had been on a speed-limited bus, that was capable of travelling faster than it’s limiter and being driven by Australia’s worst drivers, I would have contacted them and told them about my frightening experience.

yes Chewy, I am relying on my anecdata because quite frankly I do not have the time or inclination to construct a proper survey that would withstand your pot shots from behind your keyboard.

Oh yes, you forget the major reason the journey will be longer is the additional stops for Curtin and Deakin residents (who will get much reduced journey times) and to service the Parliamentary triangle employment areas.

BTW, last night at around 6.54 pm, and in the wet, successive rapid services did exactly what I described. How do I know? I was in my car, cruise control with a GPS calibrated speedo set to 8o km/h, passed with more than a slight velocity increment.

Now back to your keyboard.

Bigred,
So we agree that your initial position is not based on facts. Thanks for admitting it.

And no, I didn’t forget anything about the time it will take, the buses are significantly faster without the stops, they will be significantly faster with the stops.

Although thanks for highlighting another advantage of buses, it’s much easier to put in place bus express routes that don’t have to stop when compared to light rail.

And hilariously in your last apparent point, you’re highlighting that the buses can travel even faster than the light rail if they wanted to and had their own speed limits on a dedicated bus way.

Thanks for providing more evidence for my argument.