Noise Abatement? Where do we stand?

Absent Diane said :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7450321.stm

this may just be the answer.

Fascinating… but just like any good quality sound insulation technology, it’ll be ridiculously expensive. In fact, this could make the old technology look relatively cheap!

Boy this brings back memories! My brother used to practice, practice, practice and drive people crazy. Now his band is so good they never seem to practice – just turn up for gigs and play. They got a video production student to knock up a video clip and got played on Rage a few times (at 3am in the morn). Not a bad start for a few lads from Canberra.

He’s a hero in my eyes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66XRlQYu60k

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7450321.stm

this may just be the answer.

I avoid the news cos it always has flashy headlines of disgusting violent crimes for us to shake our heads at in non-violent, non-active disagreement. Stories that make me want to go vigilante more than i can explain (exactly why I avoid it). That is not a ‘tough guy’ thing as you interpreted, its a ‘enough is enough’ thing. Its a protective thing. If this – criminal, in my opinion – Law system is not going to protect people, then we need to protect ourselves. Then this same criminal system mocks us by blantently showing that violence and cruelty are not strongly dis-encouraged. That’s why people are ‘like that’ I think. Lack of strong enough incentive to not do what we read of.

Surely children in shopping centres are well above that dB limit. (no offense intended smithja, just noticed your mention).
They are the one thing im scared of. My partner wants 2 in the coming years. I think i will possibly change to want the same, just as i changed away from it, but currently i cant stand them.
It is good however, that there are some places for people to practice music without “turning it down” (you cant turn down a drum kit).

Regardless, people aren’t they way they used to be… which was my point. I hate it but, everyday I read the paper and make comparisons to what the states are like. In Sydney you wouldn’t get away with playing loud music.. for 8 hours… I’ve personally never touched a gun nor reverted to violence, but people are like that… even in Canberra.

I have no problems with music, I love it…. and I don’t care if families in my street have parties and I’m far from being middle aged, but people really push the limits… Just not so loud for 8 hours or late at night….and I wouldn’t be a useless whinger or a prude… I have a very full life, with kids, full-time work, meetings, shopping, soccer, swimming lessons, music lessons etc…., and i crave(look forward to) for peace and quiet.

niftydog – the band SystemAddict i think will be needing a bass player.
Sorry i dont have contact details, but they probably got a website/myspace thingo

Thanks heaps AD/Justbands. will definitely look at the site.

i thought you were going back to ‘finging’…
it was just a stupid thing to say. Its obvious how you meant it at the time.
Australia is already taking that path gutter mouth. Yesterday Sydney cops seized a 9mmUzi off some bloke. Lucky we got book after book of legislation to protect us against that…and music noise.
Your right about the society thing, but we’re a take it up the ass “civilisation”.
The first 5 people you’d take your too much work, not enough family stresses out on would be the least responsible.
Anyway, hiring a place is better for all. But luckily when i was young – and not nearly able to afford it – the majority of my neighbours (almost all of them actually) were live and let live people.
The next door middle aged + a few years couple had no problem with it and just hoped thier parties didnt bother us. Of course we were all to busy and happy to notice.

Oh and a this guys a girl….and not a ganster….

Where I live the only 45 I woudl pull out would be vinyl and give it some airplay on my record player… Along with my war of the worlds, nirvana records and pink floyd, van morrison, elton john, metallica, maiden, pantera, jeff buckley etc etc..

eclectic I know but eclectic is what eclectic does

The local hall where I live is $15 bucks for 4 hours during the weekend. If you can’t afford that, then don’t be a ‘professional’ muso.

Oh and regarding the comment –
‘F**king idiot you are. bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, I’m a big man, bla bla bla, fing this fing that, bla bla bla.’ and ‘ gangster crap’….I don’t think so….

People aren’t ‘useless whingers’ cause we don’t like music so loud, it’s like having your own stereo on. Everyone is entitled to live in peace and quiet, we are the majority not the minority… Society is stressed out, we work long hours and don’t spend enough time with our families or relaxing, destressing etc…..in the states people would pull out ‘.45s’ (It happened just the other week) and shoot people for having parties and making lots of noice, soon enough Australia will end up following the same path, you ignorant wank. I should have explained why I said .45, I didn’t realise it was going to be read by someone with an IQ of 5.

Just to reiterate – I WOULDN’T SHOOT YOU, idiot…. Just incase you take that the wrong way it means ‘person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning’ Perfect for you.

And the law is on my side….back to my fing law books i go…..

http://www.apra.com.au/writers/new_writer_members.asp

Kris -they will post the forms to you (check the website). I think you need an ABN, and there is quite a few pages to go through.

Kris209 said :

niftydog – what styles do you play?

I’m mostly into bass-heavy and cerebral stuff. Big on Primus, King Crimson, RHCP, Faith No More etc. My influences are many and varied – but it’s hard to list them without pigeon-holing yourself. Think everything from nomeansno to the Penguin Cafe Orchestra minus just about everything that’s been in the top 40 in the last ten years.

smithja said :

The law states…

You can easily exceed the 45dBA limit just by sneezing too loudly, but if you got fined for that you’d be justifiably incensed. The EPA would take into account the duration and repetition of the “offences” and attempt to arbitrate instead of just waving the legislation around in peoples faces.

justbands – yeh for sure.
do you know what ‘joining’ involves? web site-able i spose? does it cost or is there an ‘in case of’ sort of contract?

Well, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire…THE A-TEAM

you’re a class act ingee. seriously!!

Well there ya go, I could not have been much more wrong eh ?

APRA is well worth joining. They pay royalties to songwriters that they collect (from venues, radi stations, etc).Your average Canberra band playing around town may not get a lot from them, but if you score some decent radio play, a big festival gig or two or get your heads on TV then it can pay pretty well.

whats ‘vg’ ? im not up with all the lingo sorry.
why would you be frightened internet boy?

Anyway, sounds good to me, hopefully you want ever wish to avail yourself then.

APRA (Government) is the Australian Prudential Regulatory Authority.
They deal with insurance regulation.

APRA-AMCOS (Commercial) is the Australian Performing Rights Association & Australiasian Mechanical Copyright Owners Society. (shortened to APRA, generally)
They are the people who are the Australian version of the RIAA.

Australian Performing and Recording Artists Assn

They also purchase lyrics as well I am sure (Happy to be corrected)

Kris209, it’s good to see there’s a jumped-up little maggot like you who’s prepared to play Mr Tough-guy when vg isn’t around. Thing is douche-bag, this is the internet – where we’re all ten feet tall, rich and have cocks that swing down to our knees, so no-ones frightened of arse-bandits like you.

For future reference though, don’t presume to respond to anything I post. If I wish to avail myself of your pathetic intellect I’ll address you directly.

>pathetic butt plugs? lol… I smell a fckwit!!
LOL yeh for sure. Probably some bogan called ‘Wazza’ or ‘Bazza’ or some other nickname thats instead of an affectionate pinch on the bum from the fella’s.
See the .45 line from that idiot above? LOL what a knob! or maybe he’s a ganster who knows.. LOL

Anyway, yeh ive heard good about Cakewalk. I got a couple of there first releases. Been using Cubase SX lately and it can do more than i know how to use effectively.

What is APRA?

you think the laws on your side Smithy then find out whos responsible for applying it and se what can be done to close down these pathetic butt-plugs.

pathetic butt plugs? lol… I smell a fckwit!!

cakewalk is supposedly an awesome app… the latest version got a write up in computer music a few months back and they rated it is as the best tracker/sequencer on the market – ahead of tools/cubase/logic in terms of new ideas.

Yeah mic’ing is the most fundamental part of recording – get that wrong and you might as well not bother.

Start up your own label – join apra get an abn and contact distributors!! easy apparently!!

yeh for sure. Like most muso’s probably, i have no idea about the marketing side of the project either. I simply figure, get a good (air-able) product (which you have), then just send it everywhere – Radio stations, labels (look on the back of similar genre cd’s you listen to), management/distro companies, other bands and anyone else you can think of involved in that side of the industry.
We figure there’s not much point spending to much time or money on recording demo, cos if anyone does take to it, they’ll most likely have you re-record it anyway.

If you think the laws on your side Smithy then find out whos responsible for applying it and se what can be done to close down these pathetic butt-plugs.

Thumper – good material and great production.
what did you use? Cubase, Pro-Tools?
Have you sent it to any labels?

Anyway, what am i doing getting distracted by a peice of sh** like this. back to intelligent conversation…

F**king idiot you are. I was reading openmindedly your comments, occasionally laughing at you till that last line. Bring it on f**kwit. I do practise at commercial district venue’s for both my bands. Kids cant afford that. You have people taken to court over something like that and you’ll end up the one in personal danger i’d imagine. There are people worse than me re: that nonsense out there.
Anyway, piss off back to your lawyer’s textbook d**kh**d. I’d love for someone like you to uncover a weapon near me – you’d wanna be REAL quick.

“What kind of loser would spend a phone call to this “EPA” to put a stop to people playing music whether they like the style or not – i dont care for thrash metal myself, just cant stand useless whinger’s. Get a life. Go out”

I would, I don’t work all week to come home on my only days off to listen to some inconsiderate idiot playing music so loud I can’t hear myself think.. I wouldn’t want to “go out” as you put it, it’s my house and I shouldn’t have too….. Why wouldn’t you hire a hall or community room and practise there..We’re living on top of each other. It’s people like you who piss their neighbours off and find themselves with a .45 pointed at their head.

The law states:

Noise offences
39 Offence to make noise louder than noise standard
(1) A person commits an offence if—
(a) the person makes noise in the ACT; and
(b) the noise causes environmental harm in an affected place.
Maximum penalty: 10 penalty units.
Examples of making noise
1 playing a musical instrument
2 using portable loudspeakers
3 using a leaf blower or vacuum
4 using a power tool
Note 1 An example is part of the regulation, is not exhaustive and may extend,
but does not limit, the meaning of the provision in which it appears (see
Legislation Act, s 126 and s 132).
Note 2 Making noise will only cause environmental harm in an affected place if
the noise level is louder than the noise standard for the compliance point
for the place from which it is emitted (see s 25). Also, the noise
standard for the point may be different at different times of day (see
sch 2, table 2.2).

Where noise limits have been exceeded and there is no relevant exception that has been complied with then there has been a breach of the legislation. For the breach to be an offence, an affected person must make a complaint to the EPA (Reg 31 ). The EPA may then issue an infringement notice with an on-the-spot fine (s 116 ) up to a maximum of $100 (schedule 5, item 10 of the Regulations ). If the fine is not paid after a final notice is given, the EPA may take the offender to court to be prosecuted. If such action is taken, the maximum penalty is $1 000 for an individual offender and $5 000 for an offending corporation (Reg 35 and s 133 of the Legislation Act 2001 ). A complete defence to this action is made out where a person has complied with the general environmental duty in s 22 (Reg 39(b)(i) ).

See the site – http://www.edo.org.au/edoact/fact_sheets/NoiseFactSheet.htm#EP_Act

For further information…. But it is definitely against the law to play music that loud on a Sunday. If they want to practice, hire a hall or community centre, don’t piss off your neighbours.

Thumper – Good material! got my bass drum foot tapping under the desk at work to it.
Couple of them reminded me of Tom Petty/John Cougar Mellencamp (both i like).
Im one of these ‘weirdo’ people that like classical and rap, metal and pop, techno and alternative. Where’d you record it? not bad production.

niftydog – what styles do you play?

Danman said :

Humpy Hall in Scullin is an institution too…

Geezus… we used to try to shake that place off it’s foundations every weekend!! And that nice little patio out the back was great for… doing stuff… yeah… stuff…

Anyone looking for a bass player? I’m house trained!

Danman said:

Danman said :

Or… Buy some ear plugs, an airhorn in a can (At any good boating chanlery (sp?)) and an alarm clock set to 0400hrs. You can join the dots on that.

Yes! I like this one. I think people who flog boating stuff were once known as Chandlers.

As for “sucking it up”, why the hell should the OP suck it up, and why should anyone suck it up? It sometimes seems that the “suck it up” brigade are one minute trotting out that pathetic chestnut, next minute ranting about how they can’t wash their cars with drinking water or someone frightened them in a pizza shop.

I mostly play with myself (errr…)

Looking for a drummer to jam would be cool but never could do the band thing because I suck learning and teaching.

We have fun as a duo though, and are playing the same songs as if we were a four piece 🙂

err Dickson Nova, been there a few times, and Woden and Belconnen too… Humpy Hall in Scullin is an institution too…

having not lived in Canberra for some years, so not sure if it’s still there (and also just skipped to the end of the thread when the bitching started), but the Lyneham Library had a room that bands could use. Don’t think it cost much and was not close enough to anyone’s house to cause annoyance. Remember late night woolies shopping during the week and bands would be practising.

Thumper: 3 piece?! No way.

Try a duo 😀 Plenty of room on stage then…

Yeh ok.
Gotta go home, and watch origin.
Ill chat to you about this tomorrow ay?
Finding the right people is something ive been at for ages…and still looking.

we might still be chasing a second drummer.. i think but will find out. I guess white zombie, rammstein, slipknot kind of sound. big open and industrial..not overly complex.

yeah definately the smartest if not the best bass player going around the metal circuit.

Yeh totally agree. MudVayne bass work does SO much, however is never TO much! I rate him as the best bass player, or as i like to say, ‘smartest bass player’ that ive heard.
Thats it, got to be in it for the same reason and at the same level of commitment or its just a headache.
What exactly do you need then? what artists instruments?
Im interested from your descriptions and what you listen to. You may agree, I hate using other bands names as explanation, but how else can you explain direction…i dont know all the genre names these days! there’s to many and theyre to vague.

Yeah thumper I love playing 3 pieces – my preference really.. heaps more room on stage… i love the dynamics you create out of nessecity.

Kris – yeah i was at trackside – they disappointed me there to be honest.. his voice sounded a little off (sick maybe)… and just didn’t compare to there outstanding performance at BDO a few years ago.. mudvayne rock my arse to russia.. and yep the bass playing is out standing – check out the live dvd’s – he is nuts.. going from 4 finger plucking to tapping then to slapping.. its just insane and not over the top either.

I played the techno in the big band (i really struggles playing techno live however)… we are still have plans for it.. just trying to find the right mix of people..

nothing worse when not everyone is 100% committed!! just makes it awkward.

Yeh i know its easier that way, but i like the huge full sound you get from 5 + people. Also for the stage show aspect.
I used to be set on 2 guitars, but not now. I do however want to incorporate the keyboard/effects/synth person too. It’s the 21 Century! and i just reckon theres so much unexplored territory with that.
What type music does your group play Thumper?

hmmm, I’ve only seen TBE live once so far unfortunately – Trackside, which i thought they did great at. Were you there?
They have a new album release 13 Sep 08 so im hanging for that.
Regretfully i have not witness the Slipknot live extravaganza yet – but will. I think i heard they are working on a new album too.
Another one i love (only have the latest album) is MudVayne. Smartest bass work i’ve heard in a while.
Havent heard Karnivool. A mate just showed me some Soilwork. I’ve heard a lot about them but hadnt heard them and yeh, i liked it. Modern/Commercial metal is great, and is gaining large scale attention too! (Sony/BMG).
But yeh, i wont be surprised if the band i play bass for falls apart (2 – committed, 2 – on and off).
What did you play in this 8/9 member one?

late last year a few mates and myself were working on putting together a 8/9 piece metal band – when we were all there it sounded pretty good albeit lacking structure.. but getting everyone committed for the minimum one jam a week was tough..which is why we stopped in the end.. it was a shame because it definately felt like we were all on the same page…yeah slipknot and BE are rad (although the effect have disappointed me live last few times i have seen them) – karnivool did a lot for commercial metal as well, prob one of my fave bands of the last 2 or 3 years!!

Yeh its definitely subject to timing.
Playing on your own is relaxing, lets me forget about work and money for a while.
But, for me music is a lot more, in that i still want it to become my work and money. The older I get the more im willing to give for that to happen. The music i most like playing at the moment calls for working with others in a band scenerio which is good and bad. Hard part is finding similarly focused people, but it can definitely work. There’s 9 people in Slipknot and they’re huge. Own metal in my opinion.
Then Butterfly Effect, i think, have revolutionised a commercial style. Always Great to see some Aussie’s taking it to the international stage!

Been playing guitar as a soloist for 15 years. Would not have it any other way, have a Greg Bennett Semi, an ESP MH 1000QM and a 100W valvestate marshall head on a 4×12 100W box. Got a korg mulit FX stomp with expression pedal too… Good thing my neighbours like Stevie Ray Vaughan AND sepultura

there is nothing like composing/recording a song and then having something at the end…the sense of acheivement is high, even if what you have done isn’t that fantastic… completely different art to being in a band… but both have positives and negatives. The commercial thing is hard to crack… i notice that a lot of bands in canberra that try for a commercial sound seem to be going for a certain sound/genre too late. It’s all a matter of timing really.

Funny – I am the opposite – i tend to write stuff that doesn’t push me – kind of simplistic, which isn’t hard and have a formulaic tendancies.

i compose/record my own classical (heavy classical, not jazzie), like rap/techno but havent got around to learning to use my software to explore that, like rock/pop/alternative. Both bands im in are fairly heavy. One i play bass, the other drums. They are mainstream metal which is good (have done death metal but got sick of that), but im still really looking for something more commercial. I know what you mean “out of band by choice”. I go classical again for a while when i get to frustrated with bands. Writing 2 concerto’s at moment. Dont know how long they’ll take though, i seem to create material WAY harder than i can physically play (to speed).

the last couple of weeks have recorded a couple of accuostic duo’s – no one of note basically just getting my skills.. but I mostly work on my own stuff which tends to be hybrid d’n’b, breaks, blues, industrial metal… my mad skillz aren’t overly mad yet but am getting there. bass player by trade although now at 12 months bandless (out of choice), but yeah play guitar, bass, drums (if i can ever get the gf off the kit), keys.. and have a serious gear addiction.

yeah 🙂 I play drums in one of my bands and often wonder if its worth it.

I also play piano, guitar, bass, vocals though. What sort of producing do you do Diane?

yeah i certainly couldn’t afford rehearsal space when younger – let alone the hassles of moving gear around.

CanberraResident said :

@RuffnReady – hhmmhm. I did not dissect the meaning of the word “professional”, your buddy did that for me. I admit I deliberately overused the word to get my point across, but I certainly didn’t turn it into a wikipedia definition. I am justified in saying what I said – this place is full of veteran dissecters with major attitude or bandwagon members looking for a brownie points with the “veterans”. You are one of those.

lol

I don’t need “brownie points” from anyone, I am entirely my own man. I’ve been reading your posts for about 3 months now and have disagreed with about 80% of them. Frankly, you’re just an overly judgmental tool, and I spoke up on this one because you were also being a hypocrite and I felt like pointing it out.

I, too, am a judgemental tool on certain issues, especially overconsumption/environment-related, but that’s okay because I’ve done my research, know my shit, and most of all I’m right. I don’t bother arguing when I’m not.

Carry on.

Apparently they had tried to soundproof the room, and once a fortnight isnt to bad.
Im in 2 bands and both hire places to rehearse which although feels considerate, is relatively expensive. Still, us working people can do that, different story for young folk. They cant affort $60/4hours…well, i couldnt when i was younger anyway.

Kris209 said :

What kind of loser would spend a phone call to this “EPA” to put a stop to people playing music whether they like the style or not…

I suggested the EPA mainly because they are the appropriate authority, but also partially because I know that there’s very little they can actually do. So it’s really a matter of placating the complainant by letting them vent to an authority and being told by said authority that there isn’t much that can be done. (Even the EPA know that the dBA limits are a joke.)

I’m a muso and I would hate to be the subject of an EPA complaint. My approach to avoiding such a situation is to be fair and reasonable about where and when I (we) jam. This means I’ve only ever had one noise complaint against me – on a new years eve!

The issue here is the question of whether the band is being fair and reasonable by jamming so regularly for an extended period of time in a residential area without, it seems, making ANY attempt to reduce the impact on their neighbours.

Live and let live, I totally agree – but what about a bit of give and take too?!

whilst i wouldn’t care if a band was jamming next door to me.. i don’t think i could ever do it. i did it when I was in bands at 16/17.. that seems like right of passage for young muso’s… however as an adult jamming in a house that wasn’t soundproofed properly would make me uncomfortable 1) because it seems irresponsible and a little selfish (even if the rest of the world is selfish i won’t relent) 2) I would hate the conflict and interuptions can often ruin the vibe of a jam.

Even now as it stands I am hobbyist (by no means professional) producer, muso, writing electronic music and recording the odd accoustic muso. I have some pretty powerful monitors but don’t want to ever crank them to their limits as it would annoy the shit out of the neighbours. It is frustrating – i definately sit on the fence with this one (don’t agree with reporting it to various agencies however).

Maybe us muso’s could band together (pun completely intended) and all move into one or two decent suburbs so we could have the majority and people who like quiet could have other suburbs and find new shit to whinge about. Realistic? not all!

…maybe a little cynical there. But as you said daveted, we’ll all probably need our neighbours’ help for something eventually. Live and let live ay? Unfortunately allowance of diversity seems to only look good on paper these days.

I just dont get these people daveted…
To simple to realise that for these “professional” musicians having their right to play music taken away, would be like them having that shiny new office title promotion taken away… ‘Senior Assistant Director of Talent-less-ness and mental inertia’ or something.

>buy some earplugs, have a cuppa, and read a book for a few hours
>>And practise your Auslan signing with your partner??!!

How can you practise Auslan while you’re holding a book? 🙂
But yeah, there’s a lot of things you can do while temporarily deaf due to earplugs. Cook your partner a nice surprise dinner. Or play a board game with your partner. Charades?

Or …..Go out. Good suggestion, Kris209.
If you don’t want start a war you can’t win, avoid the warzone. And you’ll still be on speaking terms with your noisy neighbours. One day, you may need them.

What kind of loser would spend a phone call to this “EPA” to put a stop to people playing music whether they like the style or not – i dont care for thrash metal myself, just cant stand useless whinger’s. Get a life. Go out.

These “professional” musicians are doing something arent they? Cant be worse than putting up with neighbouring children?…You dont like their music, why should that mean they cant enjoy it?
I, as a “professional” musician of several styles and instruments, remember having to put up with this type of bigotry around my parents house when i was growing up.
Most people were fine with it, but occasionally we’d get a new neighbour who didnt personally like the style of a band etc, and thought that everyone should want to be an overweight, overpaid public servant who spent their non eventful weekend looking over the fence for something to complain about.
They are only practising ONCE A FORTNIGHT…..give them a break.

Yep, Kel. Same one. I was further up on the other side of Totterdell, with a bedroom window that overlooked the roundabout. After three years there, I managed to develop a reasonable ability to switch off regular night time noises like the non-stop squealing of tyres round the roundabout. Being further up from the source, I didn’t get the full-on pipe experience you had.

“If all else fails, buy some earplugs, have a cuppa, and read a book for a few hours.”

And practise your Auslan signing with your partner??!!

Or… Buy some ear plugs, an airhorn in a can (At any good boating chanlery (sp?)) and an alarm clock set to 0400hrs. You can join the dots on that.

If all else fails, buy some earplugs, have a cuppa, and read a book for a few hours.

While not a member of that particular pipe band that practiced at the belconnen centre, they also had/have learners and all levels of ability. Did they practice outside, or was it indoors? Was it really that terrible (and I know it can be :)) or just not to your taste?

Pipers in Belconnen? That wasn’t in inner Belconnen just down the road from a petrol station that used to rhyme with ‘Gull’ was it? Agghhh! Monday nights — it was hard to take. Luckily I was a little bit up the road from it, there was a fair bit of traffic noise, and some background music took the edge of it. I love my Celtic music, but unaccompanied pipes sound like cats being strangled.

I’m not sure whether they were inside or outside, but standing inside my bedroom (with window facing onto Luxton street, directly across from Kingsleys Chicken) with the window even a fraction open they were very much louder than the traffic noise along Luxton Street. And yes, it was inner Belconnen just down from the petrol station, corner of Luxton and Lathlain.

Whilst the music wasn’t quite what I usually listen to, I wouldn’t have minded nearly so much if they didn’t play well past 9pm – a couple of times even past 10pm while I was trying to sleep. I must admit when I rang the EPA I didn’t find them particularly helpful, but by the comments of others I’m glad to hear that they’ve improved since I spoke to them.

Danman said :

… the brick wall comment adds nothing to the debate …

Glad you agree, but don’t forget that it was YOU that said it in the first place.

el said :

Careful Danman, CR seems to be a bit delicate at the moment.

Whoooaaaa, don’t fall off that bandwagon ….. meh, what’s the point, it’s like talking to a brick wall. Hey, that felt pretty good, I might say it more often.

Noise Abatement: Buy some earplugs.

wonsworld – good on you for not being a typical suburban whinger and not going to the authorities… hopefully there is a satisfactory outcome for both parties.

Careful Danman, CR seems to be a bit delicate at the moment.

Canberra Resident, the brick wall comment adds nothing to the debate so why bother addressing it, unless you are volunteering to enclose yourself in one ?
Hows that for noise abatement ?

As for me being self absorbed, I would just like to remind you who brought up the V-e-t-e-r-a-n Rioter issue in the first place.

I told you time and time again that I am happy to be corrected, as of now, I am yet to be.

Please add something constructive to this thread, its about noise abatement, me or my veteran rioter status…Cheers Buddy 🙂 oh and have a nice day

LOL @ ant.

Professional Thrash Metal Band = They all wear suits.

@RuffnReady – hhmmhm. I did not dissect the meaning of the word “professional”, your buddy did that for me. I admit I deliberately overused the word to get my point across, but I certainly didn’t turn it into a wikipedia definition. I am justified in saying what I said – this place is full of veteran dissecters with major attitude or bandwagon members looking for a brownie points with the “veterans”. You are one of those.

@danman – you failed to even address the “brick wall” comment, opting to talk about your status on this site and how much it annoys you. Self-absorbed much? Ask yourself, you either want to say something, or you don’t. Why start something only to end it with, and let me quote you, “meh who cares, i could be talking to a brick wall…”. Not so nice.

This sums up the difference between a rock band and a jazz band – when your rock band rehearses, the neighbours come over to complain; when your jazz band rehearses, the neighbours come over with their own drinks and sit on your couch.

Won – I was going to say it could be worse; it could have been a tuba – except the tuba went OFF at Merimbula, so I can’t really make fun of it any more.

It sounds like the ACT EPA is quite useful. People are meant to be able to quietly enjoy their own homes, they ought not be just places to keep your clothes and do your sleeping. It’s a bit rough that people actually think that someone should “suck up” someone invading their airspace on a regular basis with noise pollution.

I have a similar problem and with small children to get to slepp, their shit music can get extremely annoying. I retaliate by waiting for them to have one of their 3-4am parties and then going out to work in the vegie patch which cooincidentially is right near their house about 8.30am om a Sunday morning. Usually they have been in bed for about 3 hours and are quite intoxicated. I then commence digging to the amplified sound of The Seekers. “Georgie Girl” is a personal faviourite. Either that or “The Carpenters” played on my boom box positioned on the shed roof and aimed strategically at their bedroom. They got the message pretty fcuking quickly! Very quick learners these Gen y’s.

I should say that I have pretty varied music collection that includes bands such as Macabre, Cradle of Filth, Disturbed and NIN, so this is not a rant suggesting that the style of music being played is the issue; it’s the level of the volume. Again, this is not just the typical dull thud of a bass, it’s more like having someone up the other end of your own house playing a CD… muffled and loud.

The neighbour’s band rehearses in a colour bond garden shed in the back yard and they have made an attempt to muffle the sound. After the first discussion, I saw them taking in rolls of what looked to be inch thick layers of cotton wool, but I think that would provide better heating insulation and do little for sound. It is certainly not the same noise suppressant that I have seen used in other venues. The band does not yet appear to have a vocalist. The drummer is very good at the machine-gun-like standard metal beat, but cant yet add in fills with out losing the beat. The moment they stop the lead guitar goes to instant feedback. It’s simply too loud.

My brother also has been in bands over the past 20 years and has always used halls and separate rehearsal venues going right back to when they were kids and hired a fishing lodge out of way from everyone and used to let loose there. They may have annoyed the trout but no one thought to ask at the time. He has also since bought electric drums for his own home recordings and they can be played through headphones. The drummer for his band practices with mats over his drums to stifle the noise etc. I will be offering these suggestions to the neighbour but from the last discussion I cant see him being any less obstinate about his own needs over anyone else living in the street. And yes others have complained, not just us.

I realise that the band need to rehearse and I’m not trying to be the bad guy here, but on the other hand, I don’t bring my theatre group around my home to rehearse and we have to seek other venues to practise in. Friends that are in other clubs have to go to various locations to practice and I don’t see why these guys feel that they are a special case.

The idea of the Saturday choir is a good one. My mother happens to be a member of a Choir. Fighting fire with fire might be an interesting take. See if the rocker can take 5 hours of African choral chanting etc on a Saturday morning.

Thanks for the ideas everyone. I really don’t want it to escalate to the Police or EPA and would hope that it can be resolved amicably. I thought to post to here to find out what others in a similar situation would do and some good information had been provided, thanks again.

Canberra Resident – Its obvious that you are taking my non incendiary post the wrong way.

Btw, the “brick wall” comment was absolutely uncalled for, but I guess you think you can get away with anything because you hold the title of V-e-t-e-r-a-n Rioter.

Seems like someone is a little insecure.
I would be happy to take the moniker of newbie if it keeps you happy.
Just because I have been here a while does not mean I know everything, and quite happy to admit when I am wrong or be corrected as the below quote from this thread indicates
If the EPA do attend the site, they will not take a reading and issue a fine.
I am sure that a warning is issued and the next time is an infringement – happy to be corrected.

As for the definition of professional my point stands…

Nice tirade though. Funny how you get personal when I provide simple plausible fact…

Mods – can you downgrade my status to Newbie.. I am serious..Cheers

CanberraResident, you are such a tool! You were the one who started dissecting the word “professional”, but no-one else is allowed to? And then you get prickly when someone else doesn’t agree with you.

Toolio. Total toolio.

As for the topic at hand, plenty of good ideas above.

The police won’t do daytime noise complaints anymore, they leave those to the EPA.

You can just ring the EPA and chat to them about their process. They do come out and measure the noise from your boundary, so the neighbour can see who made the complaint.

Then they send the letter, and if that fails, proceed to fines etc.

Rental house? Perhaps the landlord would be interested to hear from you, each and every time they play.

Use it as an excuse to get out of the house, perhaps?

Ha! I was waiting for someone to get on the danman bandwagon, and sure enough AbsentMindedDiane came through. Who wouldda guessed … wait … wait … wait … here they all come …

Back to the point of this thread.

Yes, peacocks. What a danman good idea.

Very good post so far – it gets one thinking. I’ve had muso neighbours before, and the only thing I minded was the other neighbours in the complex shouting and banging the musos’ garage door, but I saw both sides. I’m inclined to think if it’s a few hours every second week it’s one of those things we all need to put up with, like lawnmowers and babies crying.

The Basement and Sound Undergroung do charge, but not much considering the near-freedom one has re the volume and style of one’s sound.

I wouldn’t suggest retaliation, but if I did:

a) Record one of their covers and have them over to listen to it. Tell them you recorded it over at some pub, and ask them what they thought. Listen to them bag it out.

b) Buy a peacock. They’re loud mothers.

canberraresident – do you offer your annoying posts for a fee? if not I would suggest you do get an abn – that way you could consider yourself an annoying professional.

@danman, nobody asked you to write a friggin’ thesis on the word “professional”!!! Isn’t it wonderful how you get these Rioters that dissect every single comment like it was a frog on a year 10 Biology table.

Only 2 weekends a month you say.Would you like to listen to loud music for 6 hours straight every second Sunday? But I guess if it’s not affecting you it doesn’t matter does it danman …

Btw, the “brick wall” comment was absolutely uncalled for, but I guess you think you can get away with anything because you hold the title of V-e-t-e-r-a-n Rioter.

If your neighbour provides goods or services and in return accepts monies for supplied goods and services she is a professional. I was not trying to be antagonistic, just realistic.

Sure they are annoying, and loud, but obviously someone (even if not you) deems them top be professional, as they are, like your ironing friend here, in reciept of monies for goods and services tendered…. To be a member of professional association, perhaps they are, perhaps not, but this is a moot point, plenty of professional photographers around that are not members of Professional Imaging Council of Australia, just means that they are not professionally accredited with these… meh who cares, i could be talking to a brick wall…

In any case, fight fire with fire… at least its only 2 weekends out of a month – and during daylight hours….plenty of worse (than your)case scenarios to be had here.

Danman said :

professional need not mean primamry source of income.
If they have an ABN and get paid work then they are what you could classify as professional

OK fair enough, then why not just refer to themselves as musicians? My neighbour does ironing for the lazy public servant across the street once a fortnight – she also has an ABN – is she a professional ironer? I s’pose she is.

I think these “professional” musicians are using this word as a licence to annoy.

Professional a-holes. Hire a friggin hall!

Hamilton @post no.1 seems on the mark, but I would play the same tune back at them with a 10 second delay while they are “rehearsing” just to screw up their timing. Alternatively, for a small fee, I could come over and tune the lusty V twin by ear. Hmmm….two of the largest production carburetors on the market and a custom Staintune exhaust vs thrash (insert “crap) metal band…. should make for an interesting battle.

Seriously though, good luck, it seems that you might need to rat them out.

In regards to those EPA laws and regulations, I’ll give you an example of what those levels actually mean.

Talking loudly to someone, like in a busy cafe or over a TV will yield a reading of about 85dB(B). That’s just talking in a slightly louder voice- not shouting. Normal talking is about 40-50dB(a) in a relatively quiet environment. In any case, you can call the police (ask them to bring a dB Meter) and if the boys/girls in blue actually know how to use it (or even show up), you can legally stop them from playing. Please note: Police are not audio engineers and have next to no training in using such a simple piece of equipment, so it can be hit and miss.

Although the hours that they’re practicing are quite reasonable – not everyone goes out on a Sunday 10-4, sometimes you just want to chill out at home. I’m all for reducing noise pollution, so don’t just ‘suck it up’ if it adversely affects you.

Other than that, you can talk to your neighbour and tell them about ‘Sundance’ in Fyshwick which provides very moderately priced rehearsal rooms. My friends band even rehearse there and they’re uni-students, living out of home and can afford it.

To be deemed truly professional, they should also by rights belong to the relevant professional association, which in this case is the APHBBSA (Amalgamated Pigeon Head Biters and Blood Spitters (Aust.))

professional need not mean primamry source of income.
If they have an ABN and get paid work then they are what you could classify as professional

Professional band in Canberra? That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all week.

If they’re THAT professional, why aren’t they gigging on Sundays, and practising during the week when most people are at work?

Could it be that these “professional” musicians have regular day jobs like the rest of us?

If so, not so “professional” after all are we boys?

7pm-10pm, as per earlier post and I did (suck it up).

By curious coincidence, when I moved from there to the ‘burbs in 2004, the next door neighbour at the new place used to mow on Monday evenings from 7-10pm, and his mower used sound like a medley of ‘Abide With Me’, ‘Scotland the Brave’ and ‘She Moved Through the Fair’ all in the people’s key of G.

You know, I’d never made that connection before…

So long as it is not at night or early in the morning or ear drum shatteringly loud i say suck it up really what is the difference between that and one of your neighbors mowing the lawn?

I think, as in the case of noisy dog complaints the owner has to create a log of events, possibly with readings.

If the EPA do attend the site, they will not take a reading and issue a fine.
I am sure that a warning is issued and the next time is an infringement – happy to be corrected.

I think legal dba readings are something like 15dba over ambient dba for the zone.

Thrash metal or not, I think this ads nothing to teh debate, its noise, its excessive and you do not like it.

Ahh I remember a band I was in once (cue nostalga scene with thought cloud)
We were called Pez, we had one song we called Sh1t – neighbors hated us, surfer across the road gave us a 6pack (we were 16)

Our ultimate goal was to stand on stage and say We are Pez and this song is Sh1t.

Never happened.

As opposed to a ‘piper doona’ which is bed linen with an ornithological motif.

Peterh, they weren’t THAT bad, which is why I never did or said anything at the time. Besides, some of my best friends are pipers, as they say in the classics. AND I choose to get up close and personal to uiliean pipes (I’ve probably spelt that wrong) occasionally.

Actually, I never snuck up close to check, but I think they were in the carpark of the centre which was a bit unsporting. I rehearse with two different groups and we make sure we’re indoors safely out of harm’s (and the public’s) way. (And at least one of our songs features a kazoo, by the by.)

naww, tha’s “piper doon” as “there’s a piper doon – so over the top lads..”

Peter h – I favour just borrowing the 4 cannons and letting fly at the metal band while you just hum the 1812!

agreed… they certainly aren’t as fun either (limited bass response!!) – but it imnsho it is a viable alternative in terms of jamming at home…

god, what next, guatemalan nose flutes or kazoos? Thibetan throat singing? Would you have preferred thrash metal?

While not a member of that particular pipe band that practiced at the belconnen centre, they also had/have learners and all levels of ability. Did they practice outside, or was it indoors? Was it really that terrible (and I know it can be :)) or just not to your taste?

Musicians need somewhere to practice ensemble work and by and large most organised community groups are considerate of others. It’s the home based ones that give rise to most problems unless they are serious enough to invest in the sound proofing etc.

EPA if polite discussion fails.

Give the pipers a break! 🙂

especially if they are from scotland, built like an outside dunny, and don’t take kindly to criticism.

Living near the burns club, I cannot complain about pipes, and as my stepbrother was a lead piper at the scots school in bathurst, even a drunken piper is better than thrash metal.

There is always 4 large speakers and the 1812 overture (with Cannon), of course.

Pipers in Belconnen? That wasn’t in inner Belconnen just down the road from a petrol station that used to rhyme with ‘Gull’ was it? Agghhh! Monday nights — it was hard to take. Luckily I was a little bit up the road from it, there was a fair bit of traffic noise, and some background music took the edge of it. I love my Celtic music, but unaccompanied pipes sound like cats being strangled.

And it’s spelt ‘Pipe Doon!’ (As in, ‘Jaysus, ah’m trayin’ ter think straight; faw gawd’s saaaake, pipe doon!’)

Absent Diane said :

I know many a muso who has done it… granted it isn’t quite as good…

…in the same way as walking across the pot-holed, dirt car park out the back of my building “isn’t quite as good” as walking on the moon.

Don’t get me wrong, I do silent jams myself, but there is a limit to their usefulness.

Take up gospel singing and practice on Saturdays?

kel said :

I rang up someone in the then EPA when my partner and I lived in an apartment block in Belconnen and had a problem with people practicing their bagpipe playing in the community center across the road between 7 and 10pm on some weekdays – no joke. Bagpipes. It was terrible.

god, what next, guatemalan nose flutes or kazoos? Thibetan throat singing? Would you have preferred thrash metal?

While not a member of that particular pipe band that practiced at the belconnen centre, they also had/have learners and all levels of ability. Did they practice outside, or was it indoors? Was it really that terrible (and I know it can be :)) or just not to your taste?

Musicians need somewhere to practice ensemble work and by and large most organised community groups are considerate of others. It’s the home based ones that give rise to most problems unless they are serious enough to invest in the sound proofing etc.

EPA if polite discussion fails.

Give the pipers a break! 🙂

There are jam rooms available for not too much of a cost. I think sound underground still does it, the basement also does. Decent rooms too, im pretty sure they supply a vocal PA, which is a nice touch.

But it does cost the band… tough situation for all concerned…

I know many a muso who has done it… granted it isn’t quite as good, but if it stops the neighbours nagging without having to go off-site it is probably a good thing!!

I’d gently recommend them to get a practice hall or face the EPA. Excellent comments all!

If I were a bit sillier… I’d recommend setting up a large, high powered aerial in your backyard – maybe even pointed towards the offending location, and broadcast something like the Wiggles over a CB frequency. You’ll know when you’ve got the transmission frequency right as the thrash music will stop when they hear “Toot Toot Chugga Chugga Big Red Car…” mixing in with their jam… but if I recommended this I’d have to mod myself (and the EPA, or ACMA might have something to say to you).

We had a similar problem – mainly in the middle of the night on weekends. We made a complaint to the EPA who sent a letter to our neighbours letting them know they were breaking the law. It totally settled down.

But if it hadn’t, you can ring the EPA (after the warning letter) and they will send someone out to take a noise reading. If they break the limit, it is a 2-3000 fine.

Quite a deterrent.

We were lucky that our neighbours were reasonable people. Good luck!!

As far as thrash metal bands go, jamming every second Sunday 10am-4pm is being very considerate really…although I do understand your frustration. It sounds like they’re at least aware of how it bothers neighbours & try to address it (Sun 10-4, make-shift soundproofing), so I’m sure they’re open to negotiation. Maybe they could move every 2nd jam to another band members place? Try jamming in different rooms of the house that may better contain the noise? Improve the sound insulation?

similar problem here.
although mine are little punk 14 year olds who don’t go to school, but prefer to hang around ALL day, everyday playing shit rap music.
I sometimes tryo to battle them with some “angry girl music” but I give up usually becuase my stereo doesn’t go loud enough.

Ah yes, silent jamming… try suggesting to a bloke that he substitutes his most-valued appendage with a strap-on vibrator and see how far you get.

Seconding EPA, and maybe even whoever looks after zoning. If they’re professionals, then they’re carrying on a business in a building zoned as residential.

Log a complaint with the EPA and let them decide. The law is virtually useless because it’s not specific enough and doesn’t deal with prolonged or repeated exposure. I think 45dBA measured at the boundary is the standard for that time on a Sunday, but if they held everyone to that then you’d risk a fine every time you sneezed.

suggest they buy a cheap mixer (couple of hundred bucks for a cheapo beringher – most come with pre-amps so they don’t need to DI) – a head phone splitter ($100 – $150) and get their drummer to buy an ekit (you can pick cheapos up for around $800 new or good ones second starting at $900 – $1k).. problem solved.. with bonuses.. ie they can jam at any time they like – noisless..and better for there ears.. so their music career will be elongated.

It really is a tough situation though.. as a muso you feel like you should have the right to play music during legal hours – and jam rooms aren’t the most convenient things.. however in life you need to be respectful of others (at the very least to avoid conflict)..

I rang up someone in the then EPA when my partner and I lived in an apartment block in Belconnen and had a problem with people practicing their bagpipe playing in the community center across the road between 7 and 10pm on some weekdays – no joke. Bagpipes. It was terrible.

This page should give you all the information you need on the noise pollution levels that are acceptable and when:

http://www.edo.org.au/edoact/fact_sheets/NoiseFactSheet.htm#restrictions

When I spoke to the person from the EPA (a couple of years ago now) they said that I would have to organise access to equipment in order to perform measurements though. Seeing as we had a semi-major road inbetween us and the offending people in the community center we decided not to pursue the matter, but it certainly sounds like it might be worth it in your case…

Can’t they hire a practise hall. If they are professional, it’s tax deductible.

I used to be a band, and we regularly hired a room at the Belconnen community centre for practise.
Or maybe you and your neighbours can hire it for them. Is it worth $x a fortnight for the solitude?

This one is easy – Take a recording of each of their songs and put them up on Youtube – Make sure you take credit for them yourself (or under an alias) and make no reference to their band. Drop a flyer in all of your neighbours letterbox (inclusing them) with a link to the songs.

Should shut them up pretty quickly if they think their music is being stolen and posted.