2 June 2020

Anyone know a good acupuncturist?

27 May 2013 | sportsmum

Seems as though it’s been a few years since this topic was covered here.

Just wondering if anyone knows of a good acupuncturist anywhere in Canberra, or surrounds? Thanks.

If you’re also looking for an acupuncturist, check out our recently updated article on the best acupuncturists in Canberra.

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Yongbin Cai8:23 pm 31 Oct 17

I got very bad lumber disc bulging impingement sciatic never pain. After acupuncture treatment from Dr Charles, I had my pain relief instantly, My whole family member seen him whenever we need, Dr Charles treat my son eczema, my wife post-natal depression. we just love him for all good treatment. Dr Charles cai is “artist healing”. call him on 6162 0089

devils_advocate11:39 am 30 May 13

Erg0 said :

I may not understand the internal combustion engine, but I’m pretty confident that the people who develop and manufacture them can explain them, and even demonstrate exactly how they work if need be. It’s pretty arrogant of you to presume that people aren’t capable of telling the difference between science and magical claims.

That’s the exact opposite of what I’m presuming.

To elaborate further on my example, what I’m saying is, many people don’t know and – importantly – don’t care how an internal combustion engine works. The fact that it gets them where they need to go everyday reliable and safely is all that concerns them.

For me, it is the same with acupuncture (on the single series of occasions that I’ve had cause to use it). Esoteric discussions about whether it works for a population in general, and under what circumstances, are largely irrellevant to my internal cost-benefit analysis. Like the engine, it got me where I needed to go reliably and safely, and that’s all that concerns me.

I don’t know what kind of idiot I would need to be to find a treatment option that works very well for me, then read some anonymous internet posters citing research that it doesn’t work, and for me to think “well, I can sleep through the night for the first time in months thanks to acupuncture, but some dudes on teh internets say this treatmetn isn’t supported by science so I should stop paying for modestly priced remedial services and pay way more for anaelgeasics (sp?) which will give temporary relief at best and have annoying side effects”.

I mean seriously. FFS.

Catty10:29 am 30 May 13

Not buying into the debate about efficacy, but have had some success with acupuncture. Daughter had shin-splints (notoriously difficult to treat) from playing hockey. Came back from a year abroad with quite a lot of pain. 2 sessions from a physiotherapist who is also a trained and experienced acupuncturist and the problem was GONE. And has not recurred in 4 years.

I have also gone to Alex Perry at Blue Sky and had some good results for the treatment of a stomach problem. An excellent practitioner was Hui Min Wang, but she has left Canberra.

Erg010:12 am 30 May 13

Alderney said :

Science isn’t yet all knowing.

Science will never be all-knowing and doesn’t aim to be. But on a historical basis, you’d have to say it’s been pretty good at separating the wheat from the chaff up until now.

Alderney9:52 am 30 May 13

To those who have misinterpreted the OP’s question, science can’t explain why some people get cancers either. Doesn’t mean that what killed them is not a medical phenomenon.

Doctors may have an idea about how certain cancers kill people, and how they can attempt to treat the problem, but they have no idea of the cause. Doesn’t mean the person isn’t dying.

Science isn’t yet all knowing.

I had acupuncture for a back problem and all I know is that it relieved my pain and freed up my back for a period of time. Unfortunately, the lass that treated me is no longer in Canberra.

Watson9:45 am 30 May 13

justsomeaussie said :

That’s the problem with these beliefs, like religion people think their personal feelings effect the truthiness of an outcome.

If you believe that blindly in science being the be all and end all of everything, it becomes like religion too. Funding decides which research is conducted and which is not, including the hypothesis they start from and in some areas of scientific research, peer review is completely absent. Plenty of so called scientific studies that are reported on by the media do not pass the criteria for being valid or significant either. But in the end, it’s all about money and therefor should always be taken with a large grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism. Sadly, you can’t really trust anyone these days.

Why would anyone care if someone wants to use acupuncture? Does it somehow offend you? Make your treatment choice less valid?

I took my 8yo semi-hypochondriac to the GP the other day. Her only symptoms were possible fever and a vague complaint about her body aching all over. Paid $75 for him to tell me: “Her ears are clear, her temp is normal, her throat is good and her chest is fine. I think she has a cold.” And advised me to keep her home the next day too because “She could’ve already infected someone”. With her imaginary symptoms. I might as well have taken her to a voodoo doctor. Would’ve probably been way more effective, especially if the treatment would’ve been painful.

devils_advocate9:39 am 30 May 13

DrKoresh said :

Sounds like your pain was most likely psychosomatic then, D_A.

Well, except for the fact that I’ve never had recurring pain – psychosomatic or otherwise – prior to this episode or since.

But full points for effort.

Erg09:31 am 30 May 13

devils_advocate said :

Not everyone is arrogant enough to presume that the mere fact that they don’t understand something means it can’t work. Most people have a very poor understanding of the internal combustion engine but rely on it to get them to work every day.

I may not understand the internal combustion engine, but I’m pretty confident that the people who develop and manufacture them can explain them, and even demonstrate exactly how they work if need be. It’s pretty arrogant of you to presume that people aren’t capable of telling the difference between science and magical claims.

Monomyth said :

I don’t use acupuncture any more, but Ling Cao in Fisher was amazing and I loved it. She also does cupping and writes out receipts for Health Fund claims.

Please tell me which health funds pay for cupping so that I can avoid subsiding other people’s gullibility.

Monomyth1:31 am 30 May 13

Haters: OP didn’t ask your thoughts on acupuncture in general, just if you knew of someone and you liked them.

I don’t use acupuncture any more, but Ling Cao in Fisher was amazing and I loved it. She also does cupping and writes out receipts for Health Fund claims.

justsomeaussie4:57 pm 28 May 13

Do you know what they call contemporary and alternative medicine that works? Medicine. Too bad no one has found it yet.

I think people are getting confused with dry needling as performed by a physio and the placebo effect as performed by a well meaning but dillusional scam artist.

Acupuncture has not stood up to any double blind trials. But before people get all defensive ask yourself this, if irrefutable evidence was posted here that it didn’t work, would you still believe it?

That’s the problem with these beliefs, like religion people think their personal feelings effect the truthiness of an outcome.

mossrocket11:42 am 27 May 13

no such thing…

You can play human pincushion if you want, and you might get a good placebo response, but there’s no evidence you’ll get anything more.
……….
Puncturing the Acupuncture Myth
BY HARRIET HALL, M.D.

BY DEFINITION, “ALTERNATIVE” MEDICINE CONSISTS OF TREATMENTS THAT HAVE NOT BEEN SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN and that have not been accepted into mainstream medicine. The question I keep hearing is, “But what about acupuncture? It’s been proven to work, it’s supported by lots of good research, more and more doctors are using it, and insurance companies even pay for it.” It’s time the acupuncture myth was punctured — preferably with an acupuncture needle. Almost everything you’ve heard about acupuncture is wrong.

To start with, this ancient Chinese treatment is not so ancient and may not even be Chinese! From studying the earliest documents, Chinese scholar Paul Unschuld suspects the idea may have originated with the Greek Hippocrates of Cos and later spread to China. It’s definitely not 3000 years old. The earliest Chinese medical texts, from the 3rd century BCE, do not mention it. The earliest reference to “needling” is from 90 BCE, but it refers to bloodletting and lancing abscesses with large needles or lancets. There is nothing in those documents to suggest anything like today’s acupuncture. We have the archaeological evidence of needles from that era — they are large; the technology for manufacturing thin steel needles appropriate for acupuncture didn’t exist until about 400 years ago.

The earliest accounts of Chinese medicine reached the West in the 13th century: they didn’t mention acupuncture at all. The first Westerner to write about acupuncture, Wilhelm ten Rhijn, in 1680, didn’t describe acupuncture as we know it today: he didn’t mention specific points or “qi;” he spoke of large gold needles that were implanted deep into the skull or “womb” and left in place for 30 respirations.
Acupuncture was tried off and on in Europe after that. It was first tried in America in 1826 as a possible means of resuscitating drowning victims. They couldn’t get it to work and “gave up in disgust.” I imagine sticking needles in soggy dead bodies was pretty disgusting.

Through the early 20th century, no Western account of acupuncture referred to acupuncture points: needles were simply inserted near the point of pain. Qi was originally vapor arising from food, and meridians were channels or vessels. A Frenchman, Georges Soulie de Morant, was the first to use the term “meridian” and to equate qi with energy — in 1939. Auricular (ear) acupuncture was invented by a Frenchman in 1957.
The Chinese government tried to ban acupuncture several times, between 1822 and World War II during the time of the Chinese Nationalist government. Mao revived it in the “barefoot doctor” campaign in the 1960s as a cheap way of providing care to the masses; he did not use it himself because he did not believe it worked. It was Mao’s government that coined the term “traditional Chinese medicine” or TCM.
In 1972 James Reston accompanied Nixon to China and returned to tell about his appendectomy. It was widely believed that his appendix was removed under acupuncture anesthesia. In reality, acupuncture was used only as an adjunct for pain relief the day after surgery, and the relief was probably coincident with the expected return of normal bowel motility. A widely circulated picture of a patient allegedly undergoing open heart surgery with acupuncture anesthesia was shown to be bogus. If acupuncture is used in surgery today, it is used along with conventional anesthesia and/or pre-operative medication, and it is selected only for patients who believe in it and are likely to have a placebo response.

As acupuncture increased in popularity in the West, it declined in the East. In 1995, visiting American physicians were told only 15–20% of Chinese chose TCM, and it was usually used along with Western treatments after diagnosis by a Western-trained physician. Apparently some patients choose TCM because it is all they can afford: despite being a Communist country, China does not have universal health coverage.
There were originally 360 acupuncture points (loosely based on the number of days in a year rather than on anatomy). Currently more than 2000 acupuncture points have been “discovered”, leading one wag to comment that there was no skin left that was not an acupuncture point. There were either 9, 10, or 11 meridians — take your pick. Any number is as good as another, because no research has ever been able to document the existence of acupuncture points or meridians or qi.

Does acupuncture work? Which type of acupuncture? And what do you mean by “work”? There are various different Chinese systems, plus Japanese, Thai, Korean and Indian modalities, most of which have been invented over the last few decades: whole body or limited to the scalp, hand, ear, foot, or cheek and chin; deep or superficial; with electrified needles; with dermal pad electrodes and no skin penetration.
Acupuncture works in the same manner that placebos work. It has been shown to “work” to relieve pain, nausea, and other subjective symptoms, but it has never been shown to alter the natural history or course of any disease. Today it’s mostly used for pain, but early Chinese acupuncturists maintained that it was not for the treatment of manifest disease, that it was so subtle that it should only be employed at the very beginning of a disease process, and that it was only likely to work if the patient believed it would work. Now there’s a bit of ancient wisdom!

Studies have shown that acupuncture releases natural opioid pain relievers in the brain: endorphins. Veterinarians have pointed out that loading a horse into a trailer or throwing a stick for a dog also releases endorphins. Probably hitting yourself on the thumb with a hammer would release endorphins too, and it would take your mind off your headache.
Psychologists can list plenty of other things that could explain the apparent response to acupuncture. Diverting attention from original symptoms to the sensation of needling, expectation, suggestion, mutual consensus and compliance demand, causality error, classic conditioning, reciprocal conditioning, operant conditioning, operator conditioning, reinforcement, group consensus, economic and emotional investment, social and political disaffection, social rewards for believing, variable course of disease, regression to the mean — there are many ways human psychology can fool us into thinking ineffective treatments are effective. Then there’s the fact that all placebos are not equal — an elaborate system involving lying down, relaxing, and spending time with a caring authority can be expected to produce a much greater placebo effect than simply taking a sugar pill.

There are plenty of studies showing that acupuncture works for subjective symptoms like pain and nausea. But there are several things that throw serious doubt on their findings. The results are inconsistent, with some studies finding an effect and others not. The higher quality studies are less likely to find an effect. Most of the studies are done by believers in acupuncture. Many subjects would not volunteer for an acupuncture trial unless they had a bias towards believing it might work. The acupuncture studies coming from China and other oriental countries are all positive — but then nearly everything coming out of China is positive. It’s not culturally acceptable to publish negative results because researchers would lose face and their jobs.

The biggest problem with acupuncture studies is finding an adequate placebo control. You’re sticking needles in people. People notice that. Double blinding is impossible: you might be able to fool patients into thinking you’ve used a needle when you haven’t, but there’s no way to blind the person doing the needling. Two kinds of controls have been used: comparing acupuncture points to non-points, and using an ingenious needle in a sheath that appears to have penetrated the skin when it hasn’t.
In George Ulett’s research, he found that applying an electrical current to the skin of the wrist — a kind of TENS (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) treatment — worked just as well as inserting needles, and one point on the wrist worked for symptoms anywhere in the body.
Guess what? It doesn’t matter where you put the needle. It doesn’t matter whether you use a needle at all. In the best controlled studies, only one thing mattered: whether the patients believed they were getting acupuncture. If they believed they got the real thing, they got better pain relief — whether they actually got acupuncture or not! If they got acupuncture but believed they didn’t, it didn’t work. If they didn’t get it but believed they did, it did work.

Acupuncturists have used ingenious rationalizations to try to salvage failed studies. In a recent study using sham acupuncture as a control, both the sham placebo acupuncture and the true acupuncture worked equally well; both were better than no treatment. The obvious conclusion was that acupuncture was no better than a placebo. Instead, the researchers insisted that real acupuncture worked and that placebo acupuncture worked too! Another acupuncture researcher recently decided not to use a placebo control in his research because any stimulation of the skin might be effective — which seems to me to pretty much destroy the whole rationale for acupuncture, but he didn’t seem to notice that. If that were true, we could just caress or massage our patients instead of inserting needles and postulating imaginary qi and meridians.
Considering the inconsistent research results, the implausibility of qi and meridians, and the many questions that remain, it’s reasonable to conclude that acupuncture is nothing more than a recipe for an elaborate placebo seasoned with a soupçon of counter-irritant.

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