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Canberra’s cats facing containment

Steven Bailey 14 October 2014 94

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Feline freedoms in Canberra could be curtailed if a new report is adopted by the ACT Government. Penned by an academic, Kathy Eyles, from the ANU’s Fenner School and an ACT Government environmental planner, the report is being considered by Territory and Municipal Services Minister Shane Rattenbury. The report recommends that cats should be permanently prohibited from the alfresco lifestyle, effectively ‘containing’ them forever… and ever.

The report is in response to the devastating impacts cats can have on the environment, and with most of Canberra’s suburbs being within roaming distance of a high density of little native faunae, the environmental impacts can be quite catastrophic.

As it is presently illegal to allow your little moggies to roam in new ACT suburbs, many cat owners have curbed their critters to the cosy confines of the indoor chesterfield or outdoor cages.

In his plight to balance the needs of cat owners and the native faunae, kangaroo culling Rattenbury will have to consider the repawt’s council carefully. Asking cat owners to confine their cats forever will be a tall order – let alone an enforceable one. Referring to the possible prohibition, Rattenbury said, ‘I think if we were to go down that path there would need to be a long lead-in time’.

On a more serious note, the news comes as feral cats have recently ripped through the last bilby population in Australia in Queensland’s Astrebla Downs National Park.

Growing up in the country, I was quite used to humanely shooting feral cats. The carnage they would cause to beautiful native birds was awful, and they pretty much wiped out the antechinus population – a spritely and determined little marsupial known for mating itself to an exhausted death.

Although the situation may be different here in Canberra, the development does prompt some moral questions for our community to consider. Does the Government have a right to dictate that all cats should remain indoors, and if it does; is it ethical to own a cat at all?


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Canberra’s cats facing containment
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Grimm 11:21 am 05 Nov 14

Maya, I really don’t understand why you believe these cats being desexed will make any difference. I hate to have to point this out, but cats are killing native animals, not scr@wing them.

Antagonist 10:01 am 05 Nov 14

Maya123 said :

Oh come on, I thought we were talking nature parks here; not large open areas of mown grass such as ovals, which are hardly flourishing wildlife habitats, except perhaps to kangaroos and maybe a few larger birds such as magpies (no bushes for small birds to inhabit, find food in and feel safe in), but I don’t remember the last kangaroo I saw locally, despite that kangaroos are extremely plentiful in the bushland, as I see on regular bushwalks.

Once again you are making wild assertions that have no basis in fact. I regularly see wildlife in the middle of the suburbs, and I can assure you I am much further away from bushland than you are. Kangaroos hopping past the local shops just this morning, echidnas in my front garden, possums dancing on my roof, lizards everywhere (especially now it has warmed up!) and more birdlife than you could poke a dead cat at. And that is all within the last week! Wildlife can and does live well outside of reserves – especially in the ACT. We are the bush capital, and we have the wildlife in the middle of suburbia to prove it. I call rhubarb on you. Your credibility went up in flames a long time ago.

Maya123 11:13 pm 04 Nov 14

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

“Cats kill 75 million animals in Australia every night.”
I don’t have the statistics to argue with this. But this is likely mainly feral cats, so a straw-man argument when talking about desexed domestic cats, living in neighbourhoods with little wildlife habitat left.

Little wildlife habitat left in Canberra? The ACT is more than 50% flora and fauna reserves. You know – the bush capital. Talk about living with your head in the sand!

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

You are talking about a different part of Narrabundah. I am three or more kms away from the Red Hill Nature Park for instance, and over a km from the nearest place you have mentioned. I doubt any desexed cat would walk that far. I said desexed, because an undesexed Tom might looking for females. Any cat I have had has been desexed, and all the cats around me are desexed. I still think it is cruel to lock a cat up. I have cat-sat inside cats that have never been allowed out, but they have at every opportunity tried to get outside, and spent a lot of their waking hours staring out the windows. Sad to watch. I would hate to be confined too. I still believe we and our suburbia have done more damage to our surrounds than desexed well-fed cats will ever do.

It is simply impossible to live in Narrabundah and be more than 1km from a large open green space where native animals live. Please stop depicting this beautiful suburb as an urban ghetto whose residents have desecrated the natural environment.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Narrabundah+ACT+2604/@-35.3351158,149.1487508,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b164c1f698fd6b3:0x500ea6ea76956f0

I made my measurements on Google maps. I did not pull them out of the air.

Um, I posted a link to Google maps. I’m not accusing you of pulling anything out of the air.

Please show a place in Narrabundah where it is possible to be more than 1km from an oval or other major green space – as I said “not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards”.

It is not possible to live in a suburb that is 4 sq km total with as much open space and as few apartment developments as Narrabundah to be as far away from nature as you claim to be. Surely one of the reasons to live here is the access to green space and the relative low density (I live in an apartment), while being so close to the city, Parliament House and everything else.

Oh come on, I thought we were talking nature parks here; not large open areas of mown grass such as ovals, which are hardly flourishing wildlife habitats, except perhaps to kangaroos and maybe a few larger birds such as magpies (no bushes for small birds to inhabit, find food in and feel safe in), but I don’t remember the last kangaroo I saw locally, despite that kangaroos are extremely plentiful in the bushland, as I see on regular bushwalks.

Steven Bailey 9:43 pm 04 Nov 14

This is one bloody serious discussion. I wonder if we’re going to make it to the full 100….

Queen_of_the_Bun 9:24 pm 04 Nov 14

Maya123 said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

“Cats kill 75 million animals in Australia every night.”
I don’t have the statistics to argue with this. But this is likely mainly feral cats, so a straw-man argument when talking about desexed domestic cats, living in neighbourhoods with little wildlife habitat left.

Little wildlife habitat left in Canberra? The ACT is more than 50% flora and fauna reserves. You know – the bush capital. Talk about living with your head in the sand!

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

You are talking about a different part of Narrabundah. I am three or more kms away from the Red Hill Nature Park for instance, and over a km from the nearest place you have mentioned. I doubt any desexed cat would walk that far. I said desexed, because an undesexed Tom might looking for females. Any cat I have had has been desexed, and all the cats around me are desexed. I still think it is cruel to lock a cat up. I have cat-sat inside cats that have never been allowed out, but they have at every opportunity tried to get outside, and spent a lot of their waking hours staring out the windows. Sad to watch. I would hate to be confined too. I still believe we and our suburbia have done more damage to our surrounds than desexed well-fed cats will ever do.

It is simply impossible to live in Narrabundah and be more than 1km from a large open green space where native animals live. Please stop depicting this beautiful suburb as an urban ghetto whose residents have desecrated the natural environment.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Narrabundah+ACT+2604/@-35.3351158,149.1487508,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b164c1f698fd6b3:0x500ea6ea76956f0

I made my measurements on Google maps. I did not pull them out of the air.

Um, I posted a link to Google maps. I’m not accusing you of pulling anything out of the air.

Please show a place in Narrabundah where it is possible to be more than 1km from an oval or other major green space – as I said “not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards”.

It is not possible to live in a suburb that is 4 sq km total with as much open space and as few apartment developments as Narrabundah to be as far away from nature as you claim to be. Surely one of the reasons to live here is the access to green space and the relative low density (I live in an apartment), while being so close to the city, Parliament House and everything else.

Queen_of_the_Bun 1:27 pm 01 Nov 14

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

You are talking about a different part of Narrabundah. I am three or more kms away from the Red Hill Nature Park for instance, and over a km from the nearest place you have mentioned. I doubt any desexed cat would walk that far. I said desexed, because an undesexed Tom might looking for females. Any cat I have had has been desexed, and all the cats around me are desexed. I still think it is cruel to lock a cat up. I have cat-sat inside cats that have never been allowed out, but they have at every opportunity tried to get outside, and spent a lot of their waking hours staring out the windows. Sad to watch. I would hate to be confined too. I still believe we and our suburbia have done more damage to our surrounds than desexed well-fed cats will ever do.

It is simply impossible to live in Narrabundah and be more than 1km from a large open green space where native animals live. Please stop depicting this beautiful suburb as an urban ghetto whose residents have desecrated the natural environment.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Narrabundah+ACT+2604/@-35.3351158,149.1487508,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b164c1f698fd6b3:0x500ea6ea76956f0

I made my measurements on Google maps. I did not pull them out of the air.

Um, I posted a link to Google maps. I’m not accusing you of pulling anything out of the air, but maybe something else starting with the letter A.

Please show a place in Narrabundah where it is possible to be more than 1km from an oval or other major green space – as I said “not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards”.

It is not possible to live in a suburb that is 4 sq km total with as much open space and as few apartment developments as Narrabundah to be as far away from nature as you claim to be. Surely one of the reasons to live here is the access to green space and the relative low density (I live in an apartment), while being so close to the city, Parliament House and everything else.

Maya123 11:58 am 01 Nov 14

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

“Cats kill 75 million animals in Australia every night.”
I don’t have the statistics to argue with this. But this is likely mainly feral cats, so a straw-man argument when talking about desexed domestic cats, living in neighbourhoods with little wildlife habitat left.

Little wildlife habitat left in Canberra? The ACT is more than 50% flora and fauna reserves. You know – the bush capital. Talk about living with your head in the sand!

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

You are talking about a different part of Narrabundah. I am three or more kms away from the Red Hill Nature Park for instance, and over a km from the nearest place you have mentioned. I doubt any desexed cat would walk that far. I said desexed, because an undesexed Tom might looking for females. Any cat I have had has been desexed, and all the cats around me are desexed. I still think it is cruel to lock a cat up. I have cat-sat inside cats that have never been allowed out, but they have at every opportunity tried to get outside, and spent a lot of their waking hours staring out the windows. Sad to watch. I would hate to be confined too. I still believe we and our suburbia have done more damage to our surrounds than desexed well-fed cats will ever do.

It is simply impossible to live in Narrabundah and be more than 1km from a large open green space where native animals live. Please stop depicting this beautiful suburb as an urban ghetto whose residents have desecrated the natural environment.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Narrabundah+ACT+2604/@-35.3351158,149.1487508,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b164c1f698fd6b3:0x500ea6ea76956f0

I made my measurements on Google maps. I did not pull them out of the air.

Queen_of_the_Bun 1:22 am 01 Nov 14

Maya123 said :

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

“Cats kill 75 million animals in Australia every night.”
I don’t have the statistics to argue with this. But this is likely mainly feral cats, so a straw-man argument when talking about desexed domestic cats, living in neighbourhoods with little wildlife habitat left.

Little wildlife habitat left in Canberra? The ACT is more than 50% flora and fauna reserves. You know – the bush capital. Talk about living with your head in the sand!

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

You are talking about a different part of Narrabundah. I am three or more kms away from the Red Hill Nature Park for instance, and over a km from the nearest place you have mentioned. I doubt any desexed cat would walk that far. I said desexed, because an undesexed Tom might looking for females. Any cat I have had has been desexed, and all the cats around me are desexed. I still think it is cruel to lock a cat up. I have cat-sat inside cats that have never been allowed out, but they have at every opportunity tried to get outside, and spent a lot of their waking hours staring out the windows. Sad to watch. I would hate to be confined too. I still believe we and our suburbia have done more damage to our surrounds than desexed well-fed cats will ever do.

It is simply impossible to live in Narrabundah and be more than 1km from a large open green space where native animals live. Please stop depicting this beautiful suburb as an urban ghetto whose residents have desecrated the natural environment.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Narrabundah+ACT+2604/@-35.3351158,149.1487508,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b164c1f698fd6b3:0x500ea6ea76956f0

Maya123 2:13 pm 31 Oct 14

Queen_of_the_Bun said :

Maya123 said :

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

“Cats kill 75 million animals in Australia every night.”
I don’t have the statistics to argue with this. But this is likely mainly feral cats, so a straw-man argument when talking about desexed domestic cats, living in neighbourhoods with little wildlife habitat left.

Little wildlife habitat left in Canberra? The ACT is more than 50% flora and fauna reserves. You know – the bush capital. Talk about living with your head in the sand!

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

You are talking about a different part of Narrabundah. I am three or more kms away from the Red Hill Nature Park for instance, and over a km from the nearest place you have mentioned. I doubt any desexed cat would walk that far. I said desexed, because an undesexed Tom might looking for females. Any cat I have had has been desexed, and all the cats around me are desexed. I still think it is cruel to lock a cat up. I have cat-sat inside cats that have never been allowed out, but they have at every opportunity tried to get outside, and spent a lot of their waking hours staring out the windows. Sad to watch. I would hate to be confined too. I still believe we and our suburbia have done more damage to our surrounds than desexed well-fed cats will ever do.

A_Cog 1:51 pm 31 Oct 14

Rodney Rude said it best, in ” I Hate Cats “

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY6DxWFgnJc

CUNNINGSTUNTS 12:47 pm 31 Oct 14

Dogs are required to be confined to owners property, why on earth should it be different for cats?

Queen_of_the_Bun 7:50 am 28 Oct 14

Maya123 said :

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

“Cats kill 75 million animals in Australia every night.”
I don’t have the statistics to argue with this. But this is likely mainly feral cats, so a straw-man argument when talking about desexed domestic cats, living in neighbourhoods with little wildlife habitat left.

Little wildlife habitat left in Canberra? The ACT is more than 50% flora and fauna reserves. You know – the bush capital. Talk about living with your head in the sand!

I don’t live near a nature reserve. I often walk in them; sometimes several times a week, so no I don’t have my head in the sand; I am well aware of them, likely more so than many people who don’t visit them nearly as much as I do, but I need to cycle or drive to one. Not all of Canberra’s suburban blocks back onto Nature Reserves.

Maya, I usually find your comments insightful but not on this occasion. If you live in Narrabundah you are very close to the Red Hill Nature Park. You’d also be pretty close to the Mill Creek Oval and surrounding open land, and Rocky Knob Park, not to mention at least three ovals which are home to all sorts of native insects and lizards. There are ducks and even kangaroos on the golf course. Last week a kangaroo was hit by a car on Captain Cook Crescent near Jerrabomberra Oval.And let’s not forget the peacocks – not natives, I know, but still pretty impressive.
I watch my neighbour’s roaming cat hunt magpies almost every day. Luckily he’s not very good at it – yet – but he does kill a lot of butterflies, moths and lizards. Is that okay because he’s only on the golf course, not in a nature park?
And no, I don’t want to see him put down, but one day he’s going to get clobbered by a golfer for playing with the balls. Safer for everyone if he was an indoors cat.

Maya123 5:03 pm 27 Oct 14

Ghettosmurf87 said :

Maya, there are not many (if any) commenters on this thread that are advocating positively for “all cats to be dead and gone” as you put it.

What they are advocating for is that cat owners, like the owners of other pets, should be required to keep their pets within the confines of their own property and that they should take adequate measures to ensure that their cats are not harming the local wildlife.

Now, as cats happen to be adept at climbing, simply leaving your cat in your backyard and telling it to “stay” is not likely to work is it? If it wishes to climb trees and attack or even just scare and cause consternation for the nesting birds, or if it wishes to jump the fence and go roaming about the neighbourhood or even further then that’s exactly what the cat will do.

Therefore, the solutions are simple. You either keep your cat confined to indoors unless leashed/supervised. Or you build an outdoor cat run which it cannot venture outside of. Whether or not cat runs are expensive or not is beside the point. It should become one of the expected costs of owning a cat safely and responsibly.

The world is not the playground of a domestic cat, just as it is not the playground of someones pet dog, bird, snake, rabbit, etc. All pet owners need to take responsibility for their pets by keeping within their property when unsupervised and in control when supervised, as well as taking all practical measures to ensure that those pets do not negatively affect local wildlife, other people or property not of the owners belonging.

If you find that unreasonable, then I would argue that you are being unreasonable Maya

It was suggested here by someone that they should have the right to

Ghettosmurf87 said :

Maya, there are not many (if any) commenters on this thread that are advocating positively for “all cats to be dead and gone” as you put it.

What they are advocating for is that cat owners, like the owners of other pets, should be required to keep their pets within the confines of their own property and that they should take adequate measures to ensure that their cats are not harming the local wildlife.

Now, as cats happen to be adept at climbing, simply leaving your cat in your backyard and telling it to “stay” is not likely to work is it? If it wishes to climb trees and attack or even just scare and cause consternation for the nesting birds, or if it wishes to jump the fence and go roaming about the neighbourhood or even further then that’s exactly what the cat will do.

Therefore, the solutions are simple. You either keep your cat confined to indoors unless leashed/supervised. Or you build an outdoor cat run which it cannot venture outside of. Whether or not cat runs are expensive or not is beside the point. It should become one of the expected costs of owning a cat safely and responsibly.

The world is not the playground of a domestic cat, just as it is not the playground of someones pet dog, bird, snake, rabbit, etc. All pet owners need to take responsibility for their pets by keeping within their property when unsupervised and in control when supervised, as well as taking all practical measures to ensure that those pets do not negatively affect local wildlife, other people or property not of the owners belonging.

If you find that unreasonable, then I would argue that you are being unreasonable Maya

I quote: “Trap the ones that are not controlled and remove them from society.
If there were feral cats ready to move in that are much hungrier, then they should be easier to bait or trap. Win Win.”
Sounds like killing cats to me. This is the sort of comment I was arguing against. I find it scary that people like that live among us.

Removing desexed domestic cats, I don’t believe will make much, if any, difference to wildlife in suburbia. We are a far bigger problem than cats and no-one is suggesting removing us. What would be a bigger help to wildlife is restoring their habitat, but that’s not likely to happen. People like their huge McMansions too much, and concrete is so much ‘easier’ to live with. But then should we be filling our gardens with native plants? Perhaps it might be better to fill our gardens with food plants and reduce the need for land outside the cities to feed us. Then more land outside the cities would be available for wildlife. Gardens with lots of food plants can become unfriendly places for wildlife, which often have to be kept out, or the home owner loses the food. Basically we humans make life for wildlife difficult.

Ghettosmurf87 11:03 am 27 Oct 14

Maya, there are not many (if any) commenters on this thread that are advocating positively for “all cats to be dead and gone” as you put it.

What they are advocating for is that cat owners, like the owners of other pets, should be required to keep their pets within the confines of their own property and that they should take adequate measures to ensure that their cats are not harming the local wildlife.

Now, as cats happen to be adept at climbing, simply leaving your cat in your backyard and telling it to “stay” is not likely to work is it? If it wishes to climb trees and attack or even just scare and cause consternation for the nesting birds, or if it wishes to jump the fence and go roaming about the neighbourhood or even further then that’s exactly what the cat will do.

Therefore, the solutions are simple. You either keep your cat confined to indoors unless leashed/supervised. Or you build an outdoor cat run which it cannot venture outside of. Whether or not cat runs are expensive or not is beside the point. It should become one of the expected costs of owning a cat safely and responsibly.

The world is not the playground of a domestic cat, just as it is not the playground of someones pet dog, bird, snake, rabbit, etc. All pet owners need to take responsibility for their pets by keeping within their property when unsupervised and in control when supervised, as well as taking all practical measures to ensure that those pets do not negatively affect local wildlife, other people or property not of the owners belonging.

If you find that unreasonable, then I would argue that you are being unreasonable Maya

Steven Bailey 10:15 am 27 Oct 14

Wow, this is getting pretty serious… I think. 😉

Captain RAAF 9:46 am 27 Oct 14

Hooray!

Stocking up on ammo as we speak.

Maya123 7:05 pm 26 Oct 14

Antagonist said :

Maya123 said :

… but extremists are never satisfied, and so I realise that nothing I can write will change your views.

We have very different views on who the extremists in this argument are. It seems that you know better than the scientists and urban planners from all over the world. Better still, you also seem to know better than the RSPCA, who also recommend that cats be confined: http://kb.rspca.org.au/Is-it-okay-to-keep-my-cat-contained-within-my-property-boundary-all-of-the-time_70.html

So how about you answer the question I asked at post #64: Why do you have such a problem with being responsible by keeping them [cats] indoors to minimise impacts on wildlife?

Because there is virtually no wildlife left in many suburban places, because urban development saw to that. Not cats; urban development.
The articles quoted here said many (most?) cats don’t hunt.

My idea of extreme is those that want all cats dead and gone. No matter the heartache that would cause. Not extreme in your opinion! Then we do have a different idea of extreme.

Antagonist 1:29 pm 26 Oct 14

Maya123 said :

… but extremists are never satisfied, and so I realise that nothing I can write will change your views.

We have very different views on who the extremists in this argument are. It seems that you know better than the scientists and urban planners from all over the world. Better still, you also seem to know better than the RSPCA, who also recommend that cats be confined: http://kb.rspca.org.au/Is-it-okay-to-keep-my-cat-contained-within-my-property-boundary-all-of-the-time_70.html

So how about you answer the question I asked at post #64: Why do you have such a problem with being responsible by keeping them [cats] indoors to minimise impacts on wildlife?

Maya123 1:00 pm 26 Oct 14

jcitizen said :

Maya123 said :

I haven’t had a cat for a few years now, but in the past I have had cats and the interest in hunting has varied from cat to cat. I have had some cats that could have been considered ecological disasters, but my last cat never showed much interest in hunting, so individual cat’s hunting instinct varies. My last cat would lie out in the sun and ignore birds hopping not far from him, except to lift up his head occasionally and meow at them. If anyone thinks he was lazy he wasn’t, as he was a fighter and being a big cat (just under 7kgs and slim) one of the ‘top’ local cats. He chased other cats out of my yard, making it a safer place for birds. And the birds seemed to know this, ignoring my cat and walking around the ground scarily close to him. I never found feathers as evidence that he took them secretly either. Funnily, that cat was not interested in toys as a kitten either, but be liked to play fight with another kitten. Maybe that was a sign he would grow up a fighter, but not a hunter. I have read the argument that there are cats with low hunting instinct and they are the cats that should be breed from.
One of the greatest danger to local birds in my garden came when that cat died. Another cat was sitting in my back garden and a bird landed close to it. The bird was lucky to escape. My guess is that bird had come to consider my yard safe, even with a cat there. This time though it was the wrong cat.

Re locking cats up, I think it is akin to being imprisoned. Some cats might like to live inside. Fine. But for the others it is cruel. A better solution might be to place a future limit on the number of cats per household.

Has anyone actually got the statistics of wildlife loss from (well cared for and fed) domestic cats versus wildlife loss from feral cats (perhaps include here also not properly cared for and fed domestic cats) and foxes. Domestic cats are blamed for a lot, but are they really as bad as they are made out to be, or just more visible than feral cats and foxes, and an easier target? Researched wildlife loss would be interesting.

He chased the other cats out of my yard making it safer for birds.
Look at your own words that you are arguing about….

What, and you would have punished my cat for doing that! Okay, I will reword that.
“He chased the other cats out of my yard making it possibly safer for birds.” “Possibly” because I don’t know if the other cats were hunters. I would say satisfied?, but extremists are never satisfied, and so I realise that nothing I can write will change your views.

jcitizen 10:19 am 26 Oct 14

Maya123 said :

I haven’t had a cat for a few years now, but in the past I have had cats and the interest in hunting has varied from cat to cat. I have had some cats that could have been considered ecological disasters, but my last cat never showed much interest in hunting, so individual cat’s hunting instinct varies. My last cat would lie out in the sun and ignore birds hopping not far from him, except to lift up his head occasionally and meow at them. If anyone thinks he was lazy he wasn’t, as he was a fighter and being a big cat (just under 7kgs and slim) one of the ‘top’ local cats. He chased other cats out of my yard, making it a safer place for birds. And the birds seemed to know this, ignoring my cat and walking around the ground scarily close to him. I never found feathers as evidence that he took them secretly either. Funnily, that cat was not interested in toys as a kitten either, but be liked to play fight with another kitten. Maybe that was a sign he would grow up a fighter, but not a hunter. I have read the argument that there are cats with low hunting instinct and they are the cats that should be breed from.
One of the greatest danger to local birds in my garden came when that cat died. Another cat was sitting in my back garden and a bird landed close to it. The bird was lucky to escape. My guess is that bird had come to consider my yard safe, even with a cat there. This time though it was the wrong cat.

Re locking cats up, I think it is akin to being imprisoned. Some cats might like to live inside. Fine. But for the others it is cruel. A better solution might be to place a future limit on the number of cats per household.

Has anyone actually got the statistics of wildlife loss from (well cared for and fed) domestic cats versus wildlife loss from feral cats (perhaps include here also not properly cared for and fed domestic cats) and foxes. Domestic cats are blamed for a lot, but are they really as bad as they are made out to be, or just more visible than feral cats and foxes, and an easier target? Researched wildlife loss would be interesting.

He chased the other cats out of my yard making it safer for birds.
Look at your own words that you are arguing about….

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