Cops Too Lazy Nowadays?

Special G. 20 months may or may not be an appropriate sentence for rape, I don’t know the case so I cant make an informed decision … and I guess that’s more to the point of what I’m trying to say. I would argue that the majoriity of people would form a view about what is and isn’t an appropriate punishment with no idea of the real details of the case … just because people have a view, it dosn’t make it a legitimate one.

Plenty of people speed on the parkway too. Does that mean that speed limits should be raised to meet community expectations?

@Clownkiller “I would argue that the community often has unrealistic expectations of the sorts of punishments that should be handed out and that they don’t understand the legal processes and frameworks involved.”

The Magistrates are supposed to be representing the communities expectations. If the community has higher expectations of what sentences should be then the Magistrates should be representing those. You can’t tell me that 20 months for rape is something the community thinks is acceptable.

I agree with Roadrage77 post #74:

Natural Justice, then let the media work it out!

Magistrates have little understanding of what the community wants them to do when it comes to sentencing.

Whilst I agree with the broad tennor of what you’re saying DJ, I disagree with your observation with respect to magistrates. I just don’t buy the idea that our judges and magistrates are somehow disenfranchised from the community, that they dont have kids that go to school, that they dont drive to work on the same roads as the rest of us, that they dont stand in queues at super-markets, read the paper, listen to the radio, watch telly or go to the footy and pay too much for soggy chips and flat beer in a plastic cup. They’re regular people just like most of the rest of us and would have a pretty good idea of what community views are.

I would argue that the community often has unrealistic expectations of the sorts of punishments that should be handed out and that they don’t understand the legal processes and frameworks involved.

I came out straight away because the story held no credibility and I believe that it is still very much lacking… it was a low blow/cheap shot from the start with the title! I picked my mark and was rewarded for being correct with extra stating “DJ I hope your partner or your mum gets assaulted one day, then you’ll know how it feels. Or maybe get your ass raped.”

I also thought that extra could very easily be one of the Police haters using another login. The story was typical of those in the past that were based on nothing and appeared emotive without base.

Most of you get it. Some of you don’t. Even if this actually happened extra vented and only told us part of a story that appeared to be seeking a response from the anti-Police crowd….

Police have rules to follow. If you don’t like the rules seek to change them or live somewhere else.

In case you weren’t aware, criminals don’t have rules of any kind that bind or restrict them.

Police have to PROVE BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. This is not an easy task and you don’t appreciate it because you don’t understand or have never experienced it.

Criminals lie. Lawyers lie. Magistrates have little understanding of what the community wants them to do when it comes to sentencing.

Police can’t please everybody everytime because some people have self important views and believe that life ad how Police act should be like CSI or such. Police are also subject to more levels of scrutiny than most occupations.

For all those who think thay have been treated poorly by Police, I suggest you either continue to let your thoughts and feelings fester and continue to make everything in life taste bitter OR you could help yourself by going through appropriate channels and get answers to your speculation instead of jumping to the wrong conclusions.

I’d hate to have to deal with rules of evidence to actually prove something. That would ruin my day. It’s so much easier to point the finger and say he did it because..

Mr Swami – I have no doubt the little neighbourhood shite did damage your property although he has a basic defence of I was just walking past and saw some guy damaging your property so I went to investigate. The guy ran off and then you came out of the house. IT doesn’t sound all that plausible although in the ACT Courts this would fly making prospects of a conviction minimal and therefore not in the public interest to spend the thousands of dollars attempting to prosecute him. Without a witness to the incident wht you have is circumstantial evidence.

#91 posted by swamiOFswank

“and still lace their hydro with strichnine…”

Um small point but why the hell would they lace their dope with rat poison. Aside from the fact that it would make their product pretty hard to sell. They themselves wouldn’t smoke it either.

OMG deadman…art imitates life…either that or I’m a cliche… OUCH!

I still reckon the ACT Policing monopoly should be broken up and put out to tender. If the current providers are the best option, they will win. If not, well …!

@Aeek “Consider how ACT policing is measured, its all about performance indicators, nothing to do with cops on the beat. Discouraging reporting by pissing people off improves the stats. A crime ignored doesn’t count.”

Well done Spongeboob! So you have worked out ACT Policing’s Evil Master Plan! MwaHaHaHa!

Aeek, you obviously know sweet FA.

BTW, Special G I went and got some of those cheap Mandarins. Thanks for the tip.

I read an article in Datamation 20 years ago about help desk calls as a metric.
Often, when the systems where good, users would call at the slightest speck of an issue.
When the systems where crap, what’s the point of calling?
So, many calls = good performance, few calls = crap performance.

Consider how ACT policing is measured, its all about performance indicators, nothing to do with cops on the beat. Discouraging reporting by pissing people off improves the stats. A crime ignored doesn’t count.

Extra, good on you then for taking a stand.

Swami, you pretty much detailed the plot of the “Simpson’s in Australia’ episode,.

Sorry deadman, I don’t watch the Simpsons…but maybe I should have been!

Swami, just a suggestion man. Well if you think kicking him is a better idea…

Deadman, it happened early in the morning so either no one was out, or that they’re too afraid to get involved. There is one particular neighbour that is afraid of that guy, and has told me he’s seen the guy throw rubbish into our yard all the time. I got a feeling he knows more than that, but can’t force him.

That episode of the simpsons should have been buried in history, swami….

I’d be far more likely to give him a swift kick up the bum and make him pull weeds in my lawn for the next 5 years to make it up to me. Retaliating by damaging his/mothers property is doing nothing more than aspiring to the great heights of his wormly aptitude.

Screw that. Public bum kickings should become become a community event. We could all warm up our steel-caps…

No worries extra…

I will say, although I’ll be more inclined to believe your story because I haven’t heard any reasonable arguments to debase it, I can’t fully say it’s true and I haven’t heard both sides.

If it is true, have you talked to your gf’s other neighbors about this bloke? If he finds it acceptable to start assaulting people over the fence, it’s possible that he’s a repeat offender. I’m not saying incite the Great Neighbor War over this, but if it’s affecting the community, it would be good to get together and find a (non-violent) solution to this. If he lives in a rented house, I’m sure the lot of you could complain to the landlord. If not, there are people you can go to, I’m just not sure who – can anyone elaborate?

swamiofswank, I think you should get surveillance cameras to catch this little sucker. Either that or get someone to follow him home then you know where he lives. Damage his property.

@extra, I know that I’m pretty late to enter the debate here, but I can confirm very similar experiences related to property damage, from the local plods.

Try this for size: local neighbourhood teenage arsehole does over $2K damage to my property. I hear smashing and bashing and run to find out what’s going on. He’s standing right there, in that place, next to my damaged property, right at that moment. My neighbours also see local neighbourhood arsehole near my property, having also come out to see what the noise was. I call the Police who attend and look at the damage. Arsehole has by now run off home to mummy to plead innocence.

So then the Police tell me that there’s no evidence that he did the crime “because no-one witnessed it” even though it was heard, he was present, property was irrefutably damaged. The Police said “it’s circumstantial and wouldn’t stand up in court”.

Now…local neighbourhood teenage arsehole appears in close proximity to me one day and say “suck shit that the cops couldn’t prove it was me”.

And that’s the whole problem, I’ve had to do exactly that.

Forgive me for thinking there isn’t a time to consider taking the law into your own hands.

And…by the way, the stats on drug crime being resolved are a load of crap. I’ve reported a number of deals, including a dealer who supplies school children from her home near the school, and another house with a rather large hydro setup, and these people still trade with children, and still lace their hydro with strichnine…and I have reported this a number of times, but nothing’s been done. Perhaps some would put it down to operational matters including surveilance, but I swear I could surveil them into armageddon in any 48 hour period.

I don’t care who smokes what if they’re over 18, but anyone who knowingly supplies laced hydro to children needs to be strung up and tortured slowly.

/rant

I really hate people that are so quick to judge without being there, or knowing the full details.

When my mate was attacked, it was over something so silly as a parking spot. He was unloading pavers into his car and the trolley was in the way of the spot that jerk wanted. The jerk then tried to run my mate over with his car.

Something like that shouldn’t be accepted. And old farts like that need to get serious help.

maybe you should try it sometime PeterH, it can be very theraputic. Let off some steam against some random jerk on the net, certainly better than letting out your aggro in other ways.

And besides, in this case I think it was DJ who started with the insults, in the very first sentence of the very first post no less. If you come out swinging you gotta expect people to swing back.

peterh,

if what YOU said is true, then how hard is it for someone else to believe my story? Cos I sound like an angry immature jerk? I hope the police did something in ur case.

Am I not allowed to get angry over what happened? I’m not going to keep arguing about whether it happened or not.

There are a lot of stereo-types that don’t give a rats about anyone else on here, and frankly that’s how police are most the time. The same with thinking that all Asians are drug dealers and muslims are all terrorists.

People shouldn’t need to question what happened, but rather why the police weren’t being professional, instead more interested in collecting fines.

Thanks deadmandrinking for trying to explain to these heartless nobodies what I’m trying to get out there.

DMD, I am not objecting to the type of posts that are here. I do, however, think that instead of wishing the kind of harm that extra did on DJ, that they could have made their point without resorting to a personal attack.

I don’t know extra, or DJ, I come to this forum for the discussions, some good, some bad. At no time will I attack someone as extra has done. I will walk away from the keyboard or do something else, then come back with a reply that is measured, not abusive. I don’t swear (blue coat server will get me if I do) and I will think hard about what I am trying to say.

No, I hope we don’t. That would ruin some of what makes this site so great – which is the frank discussions without fear of being too offensive.

That kind of humor/insult will pop up everywhere you go, PeterH. What happened to you was wrong; as a human being I am sorry that it happened and believe me, this is not something I am saying easily or lightly, but we can’t just keep censoring everything for everyone. There needs to be a point where you can censor it yourself and not read it.

Deadmandrinking said :

PeterH, that’s horrible to hear. No-one should have to go though what you did.

But these kinds of posts will keep popping up, just to let you know…

and again i post….

other forums i am on, whirlpool, mactalk, business brains etc, have severe moderation. I hope we don’t have to get to that level.

[Ed. (Jazz) which is why i didnt moderate the comment you mentioned.]

sorry, I am double posting again.

I appreciate the work that the police are doing.

In fact, I have had several instances where I have required help, they have been there fairly quickly.

I understand that there are many requests for police attendance, perhaps if the govt opened more stations and staffed them, the time between request and response would go down?

but then, they would need more ED beds as well….

PeterH, that’s horrible to hear. No-one should have to go though what you did.

But these kinds of posts will keep popping up, just to let you know…

extra said :

For those who think this is some Bulls**t made up story I have pics of injuries to me and my gf. At the time she was bashed I jumped in and pushed him to the ground which I was then cut several times by his keys that he was waving around like a complete nutcase. My gf then went into court to get a restraining order against him. We have put in a complaint to the ombudsman and the AFP. As of now they are both investigating the matter.

Did I mention that the idiot is over 40yrs old, more reason that police were being prejudice cos we’re half his age. More credible to them right? I doubt any of you that are bagging me out now has ever been assaulted to know what it does to somebody. My gf is not coping and I don’t need your sympathy. I just wanted people that have been through similar circumstances to talk about their stories.

I will post an update on here when the truth comes out, like or not.

DJ I hope your partner or your mum gets assaulted one day, then you’ll know how it feels. Or maybe get your ass raped.

MODS.

can you please do something about this kind of post?
speaking as one who has been abused as a child (I am being serious, please don’t joke about this) I do not find this kind of comment of value.

I was once a cop.
I was good at my job.
BUT, I commited the ultimate sin and testified against other cops gone bad. Cops that tried to kill me… But got the woman I loved instead.
Framed for murder… Now I prowl the badlands… and outlaw hunting outlaws… a bounty hunter….

a RENEGADE!

Seriously… If you think cops don’t work hard enough you are stupid. If you seriously think that they get paid heaps of money and sit around doing nothing all day. Then why don’t you sign up to be a cop? It sounds pretty easy.

Roadrage, I can definately understand where you’re coming from. When some cretins can’t respect the law or anyone/anything else, you’ve gotta wonder what options you have left.

Tooks said :

Roadrage77,

“When my car was stolen, I eventually found it with fingerprints clearly visible to the naked eye (as they were in grease). The cops couldn’t have been less interested.”

Where were the fingerprints on your car (outside? inside? both?)
Were the doors open?
Were the windows open?

A lot depends on the circumstances.

As for the rest of your post, sometimes it’s best not to write what you’re thinking.

You’re right Tooks. I’m not really helping the situation. Its just that sometimes I feel like violence is the only language neanderthals like extra’s neighbour understand.

VG. I’d rather not get into details for obvious reasons. However he has got experience in community police work from his younger days and other various community involvement he has. I think I get what you’re saying though – that it may have been his lack of experience in “real” police work and his unreaslistic expectation because of this.
However this wasn’t the case in this circumstance.
Good point though.

Roadrage77,

“When my car was stolen, I eventually found it with fingerprints clearly visible to the naked eye (as they were in grease). The cops couldn’t have been less interested.”

Where were the fingerprints on your car (outside? inside? both?)
Were the doors open?
Were the windows open?

A lot depends on the circumstances.

As for the rest of your post, sometimes it’s best not to write what you’re thinking.

so much for civility, then, eh roadrage?

was going to make your point, dmd, about when police step in. not everyone is blessed with good social skills (in fact some neurological impairments distinctly hamper social skills – wither these poor sods in the world then?), which is why we have a police force in the first place…

one of the factors mitigating the police responses in some of the examples posted in this thread regards resourcing – with limitless resources, each theft would get the whole forensic traetment, each allegation of assault would have a special operation created to get to the bottom of it…

sadly, the real world has constraints and, as much as we’d like to feel special, we’re a single unit in society and the police deal with us accordingly. if you want to have more gov’t resources channelled into the policing of your community, then speak with the CM, and/or policing minister (if it isn’t the same person… who is police minister?), but be prepared to sacrifice somewhere else…

@DMD, Yes, understood and agreed. I was just speaking in general terms. Too many people blow their top and then call the police for assistance, when they could have sorted it out in a civil manner.

Anyway, perhaps in “extra’s” situation, it wasn’t blatantly obvious that violence had actually taken place? I don’t know. Only Extra and his “gf” and the mysterious neighbour know how this incident transpired … we can only speculate.

To tell you the truth, I kind of sit on the fence where police are involved. Some are great, some not so, but let’s face it, half the time they’re expected to act as mediators and/or counselors between two immature and aggressive parties, and for that I give them the respect they deserve.

Extra, unless your girlfriend is raped and/or murdered, the police won’t give you the time of day.

When my car was stolen, I eventually found it with fingerprints clearly visible to the naked eye (as they were in grease). The cops couldn’t have been less interested.

I know all the do-gooder hippie types won’t endorse this, but I would be inclined to exact some “natural justice” on your neighbour. Next time he’s out mowing his lawn, sneak up behind him, pull his jumper over his head and give him the thrashing of his life. Maybe even smash his knee in with a metal bar just for good measure.

FC

Senior Police Officer where?

Makes a big difference. He could be a ‘senior Police officer’ in the AFP and never spoken to an angry man in his life. Actually have no idea of what community police work, i.e. not sitting behind a desk in HQ, is actually about.

You opened the door champ

Nosey. Thanks.
I don’t recall seeing your posts on here before so this isn’t based on any judgment of you in particular – but I have to say I was preparing to get blasted with insults and more arguments. So thanks for listening to what I was saying and displaying maturity in your response. I am not being sarcastic either. Its really good to see and renews a little faith it riotact posters.
Cheers.

CR, that’s true, violence can be avoided with civil manners. I don’t know what led to this incidence, but I can say, when someone has chosen to be violent, the situation changes and that’s when the police get involved. If they fail to do their job in that situation, then there’s a problem, regardless of what other solutions could have taken place before hand.

One of the main jobs of the police is to step in where civility fails….

I find it interesting that the pro-police argument goes something along these lines;

Our statistics show that we have a good record of ‘clearing’ crimes. Your story contradicts our statistics. Therefore your story is a beat-up and/or you are to blame.

I’m with DMD in that there may be many a story of good police work, but neither I nor my friends have ever been part of one. And without wanting to sound like a wanker, we are all about as respectable, non-agro and non-violent as you can get, so we aren’t ‘asking for it’.

Maybe we’ve just been unlucky, but when someone like Extra comes on and is accused of being a criminal himself for suggesting the Police could have done better, I wonder whether that doesn’t just indicate the exact kind of ‘fuck you’ attitude that people are complaining about in the first place.

@DMD, point being, in many cases, people choose to use verbal abuse to sort out a so-called dispute. This can lead to physical violence. If people learn to communicate better, we wouldn’t have every Tom, Dick and Harry, Betty, Sue and Mary calling the police, so the cops can turn up and sort out the mess these socially lacking fools have created. You can safely assume that many people call the cops for help, because they, together with the neighbour, have gone too far. Hence, lacking in social skills – yes. You cannot argue that if you were to have a heated discussion with a neighbour, that if both parties spoke about the issue at hand in a civil manner, that the need for police would not be necessary.

It looks like EXTRA and his neighbour lack skills in this department.

Fair point.

Better luck next time.

Okay CR, so next time somebody jumps over your fence and starts attacking you, you’re going to use your social skills to get out of it?

Do you have private health insurance?

People are too quick to make that call to the police, when in fact, it’s not even warranted.

“Quick! Let’s call the police. They’ll sort this bloke out because realistically, I have no social skills, and I try to sort everything out by calling my personal helpers, Canberra Policing. This way the OTHER bloke will be seen as the guilty one, because IIIiiii got in first by calling the cops, so IIIiiii must be innocent”.

BUT, when the attending police don’t come to the party, the bloke that made the call becomes vindictive and tries to get police into trouble.

That’s usually how the story goes …

EXTRA – did you and your “gf” go to the doctor and have your injuries documented? I suspect not in both cases. You went straight to the Ombudsman but failed to visit the doctor. Beware of the cookie monster story little man.

That isn’t the point, smokey. Although I might not have handled this particular situation the same, violence is still considered unacceptable in our community. No-one should have to put up with that at home.

So you have a problem with a neighbour. What can the police do? Charge him and then what?Resolve the problem as you wll still need to live next to these people. Escalate the problem and expect a greater level of force.

Nosey,
If you read the post you would have noticed that I stated he only intoduced himself with rank at the end of our dealings. The two officers involved were not acting professionaly during our dealings. At no stage during it did my father mention that he was a police officers. It was only at the conclusion of our dealings. Hopefully now the two oficers involved will remember to act profesionally with whomever they are dealing with, as you never know who you are dealing with.
So no, it didn’t affect our treatment as it was already over with at the stage.
Which is exactly why he didn’t state it in the beginning. He didn’t want preferential treatment, however had faith that the matter would have been dealt with appropriatly no matter who we were. He was sadly mistaken.

And when I lived at the flats he was a senior officer actually. And I didn’t name drop. Hence the point I was trying to make about being treated differently because of perceived social standing. Maybe if I had name dropped I would have got better treatement.
But I wouldn’t have felt comfortable doing that. I was naive and believed in justice,

FC

Your Dad obviously thinks highly of himself.

You think everyone should be treated equally.? Them why did your Dad have to state his rank?

I’ll tell you. Because he thought you would get better than normal treatment!!

PRS!!!!!

I think your “robbed” story from when you were living in junkie flats is a load of cr@p. If your Dad is a senior officer now then he would have been a junior one back then who would have been recognised or more than likely dropped a name and rank. Subsequently the matter would have been looked at more than you are telling us.

Problem is with cops is that people take them for granted – and that they only notice that they are there when they stuff something up.

For all the years of good service they do, they are only noticed when someone does not get cited for cutting their neighbour with some car keys (C’mon, are you made of butter or something?)

let me tell you friends, if you think the cops do nothing here, try living in Brasilia, Cambodia, India, J-Burg or any other non western state – and then tell me how little our cops do here.

I thinki its more of a case of the cops did not do what YOU wanted them to do.
If everyone thinks they know how the feds should operate, then perhaps be pro active in your approach to move to remedy – rather than bleeting poor me on a public forum.

Maelinar – still relevant on the Riot-Act. He swears.

No more lame poetry. Shakespeare will now rise from his grave and murder you.

Headbonius, a girlfriend being assaulted by a neighbor and having a mate bashed at Bunnings does not sound like someone who gets frequently bashed. He hasn’t even been bashed FFS! You, on the other hand, need a good walloping. Has your pretend spouse given you one yet?

DJ your time-old rant about young people not respecting authority is lame and dead in the grave. What the hell were the baby-boomers on about, then? Did ‘authority’ approve of taking as many drugs as possible and running around naked at music festivals? Was the ‘authority’ supporting protests against Vietnam until Gough was elected?

Your idea of respecting authority seems to be bending over and taking it up the arse from whomever got a badge or less restraint when it comes to violence. That is an irresponsible way to live. Sure, some respect should be paid to the police – when they’re actually there and doing (or when they are supposed to be doing) their job. You are allowed to complain afterwards if you feel they haven’t done the right thing. It’s no disrespect, really. It’s more respect to the law and order they’re employed to uphold and complaining is part of this wonderful thing called democracy. Perhaps you’ve heard of it?

If this is true (which it may not be, but extra seems pretty adamant about proving his case), then it looks to me like frustration at the system more than simply being lazy. If that’s the case, the officers in question need to be disciplined and informed that their job is to investigate and gather evidence instead of going ‘f-k it’ halfway through. It does highlight a problem within the system, but it doesn’t mean everyone in it should just give up.

Problems with the system also do not include just locking people up for everything. We need solutions, not delays.

TAGLINE – who’d be lame enough to post under more than one fake name? Comment by Ant/Farq, June 2008

I wasn’t providing so called ‘stats’
I was stating my opinion.
Although I would like to know where CMan pulled his stats from?

Did I claim any science behind it?
and nice work for resorting to name calling. That’s really mature. I am still baffled as to why people on this site insist on jumping straight to name calling.
Headbonius, you don’t know me, you disagree with a comment I posted. ok, but saying that I live in a fantasy world and am a fool? where is your science behind that? or where did you draw that information from? I think that if you are making such a judgement on a few posts, you may perhaps need to rethink your method of decision making.

Back to the topic.
My opinion has been formed based on when I lived in ‘junkie flats” in college( I didn’t feel the need to define it, I think everyone knows fairly well I’m talking about high density government housing flat complexes)
There were many incidents that occured there (mainly becuase of the amount of career criminals living in close proximity), including being robbed while I was asleep in bed one night. I personally felt that I got treated like I wasn’t worth squat. No follow up, no proper procedure. left feeling that the only protection I had was…..nothing.
Lets just say that since I now own and live in nice house, in a nice neighbourhood, when I had issues with neighbours who were drug dealing and voilent, I got treated very differently. I was treated with respect. Big difference.
I can’t help to feel that money (or perceived ‘social status’) had something to do with it.
I know that it is obviously down to the particular police officers you deal with at the time, and not the whole police force, and I would probably get sick and tired of dealing with the dramas, but you know what, if I signed up to be a police officer, and made that committment, I would treat people equally each situation, and try not to judge people on perceived ‘financial/social standing’ or an idea on whether their issues are ‘worth’ dealing with.
And there is no way anyone can deny it happens. It is understandable. You deal with the scum of society all day long, you are bound to get worn down and eventually see all people fitting into a certain box that way. However, that doesn’t excuse it.

My father, (who is a very senior police officer), was very amused after sitting with me, reporting an incident to the police. at the conclusion of the meeting, my father stood and shook the uniformed policemans hands and introduced himself again. This time including his rank and section. Lets just say that the uniformed police looked like they had just shat themselves.
The under 30 bit is referring to the stereotyping of young ‘trouble’ makers.

Just to keep you all entertained, I read Vic Bitterman’s post and felt a creative urge…..So with apologies to Robbie Williams:

Send Police to help me
I need their big strong arms
Keep me safe from harm
In pouring rain

I’m a whinging old man
Lord I fear the cold
Feel Im getting old
Before my time

As my soul heals the shame
Of bagging Police without blame
Lord Im doing all I can
To be a Bitterman

Go easy on my conscience
cause its not my fault
I know the cops have been taught
To take the blame

Other whining Posters
Will catch my tears
Walk me out of here
Im in pain

As my soul heals the shame
I will grow through this pain
Lord Im doing all I can
To be a Bitter Man

Once I’ve found that gripe posting
I’m homeward bound
Whinging’s all around
Whinging’s all around

I know my whining posts have fallen
On stony ground
But love is all around

Send the Pigs to love me
I need their big strong arms
Keep me safe from harm
In pouring rain

Give me competent Police
Lord I fear the cold
Feel Im getting old
Before my time

As my soul heals the shame
Of bagging Police without no blame
Lord Im doin all I can
To be a Bitter Man

FC, that is brilliant. Please format your theorey in the appropriate way and submit it to Stanhope for a training package for the useless police. I just love the science behind it. Can you define “Junkie Flats” or where you got your stats from for the Under 30 bit? You can think you’ve summmed it up really well in your old fantasy world fool. You’ve summed up squat.

I think it is pretty much summed up into this.
Where do you live.
How old are you.
If the answers to these questions are:
Block of flats
and
under 30
That is likely wy you got treated that way.
If you live in ‘junkie’ flats my lesson learnt is that your not worth squat to the police.
Very different story if you live in a nice house and then your neighbours did something to you.

Extra, funny how you and your mates keep getting ‘assaulted’. Does that tell you something? Because it sure as hell screams something to me moron.

Remember DJ, one man’s handbags at 10 paces is another man’s 10 rounder with Mike Tyson. It’s all relative isn’t it

“I doubt any of you that are bagging me out now” – don’t bet on it!

C’mon folks that’s a red flag he’s waving!

Sorry for the double post.

Extra sprouts teeth? Bit late and lame mate – you started with a story that lacked credibility and now you hope the worst for my family… good bloke, are you, like, 14? And as for the attempt to claim prejudice because of your age – the average age of Police in the ACT isn’t all the much higher than yours champ.

I loved the “Did I mention….” part – obviously you didn’t – idiot.

If you weren’t aware I like many of the RA crowd who regularly post comments have been directly affected by crime in the ACT.

Two sides to every story and you don’t have the chance to make a first impression again. Get help. Get your girl friend help. Then actually listen to the advice – your generation seems to lack the ability to listen and learn about the big world out there not to mention respect for authority….

Forgot to mention how a mate of mine was attacked at bunnings last year, but luckily there were witnesses and surveillance cameras, and the fact he noted down the number plate so they were able to do something.

The thing is even though they had all this information, it took them over a year to locate this guy. How ridiculous is that?

I don’t hate every single police officer. It’s just the ones that have power in their heads and think they can run around and put rules only when they see fit.

And speaking of criminals, they are always getting away with their crimes. I watched recently about a serial killer that was only caught 15years after his killing spree. Hows that for ya?

For those who think this is some Bulls**t made up story I have pics of injuries to me and my gf. At the time she was bashed I jumped in and pushed him to the ground which I was then cut several times by his keys that he was waving around like a complete nutcase. My gf then went into court to get a restraining order against him. We have put in a complaint to the ombudsman and the AFP. As of now they are both investigating the matter.

Did I mention that the idiot is over 40yrs old, more reason that police were being prejudice cos we’re half his age. More credible to them right? I doubt any of you that are bagging me out now has ever been assaulted to know what it does to somebody. My gf is not coping and I don’t need your sympathy. I just wanted people that have been through similar circumstances to talk about their stories.

I will post an update on here when the truth comes out, like or not.

DJ I hope your partner or your mum gets assaulted one day, then you’ll know how it feels. Or maybe get your ass raped.

Woah woah there cman by your very own stats 65.6% of all reported crimes go uncleared. 2/3 criminals get away with it in other words. I would say that is a fail mark. If anyone thinks otherwise that 34.4% “clearance” rate is acceptable speak up now…

Add to that our woeful ability to actually convict and sentence people through the court process spoken about ad nauseum on RiotACT for the past 3 years I’ve been reading and we wonder why there are only bad stories about the police.

IMHO however I think they do a brilliant job. Imagine dealing 98% of your time with people who hate you, lie to you, insult you, assault you, are stressed out, are injured, are drunk, are rapists, are kiddy fiddlers, are thieves etc etc every day of the week and then as soon as anything goes wrong its your fault. I couldn’t think of a worse job description and full respect to those that chose that path.

I see it all the time.

Cop bashers who don’t know how it is out there.

Then, when sh1t hits the fan, who do they call?

Whether they like it or not, the cops are the only one’s who can and will do something about a problem. No matter what the situation.

Cops put their life on the line from time to time. Is there anyone posting here who would be prepared to do that while a person is standing next to them giving the cop an earfull of sh1t, while the cop is doing it?

I doubt it!!!

Btw, I was talking about dexter, not batman.

Dude…I hope you didn’t just f-cking ruin it for me! I’ve only seen the first season!

The stats are amazing.

We have the lowest level of police per capita, and yet the highest rate of solved crimes.

This would indicate that either ACT police are quite stunning. Or that the stats appear god as they have downgraded the level of ‘crime’ that they will investigate, thus solving more of the logged crimes. Eg – they no longer deal with noise disturbances from 7AM to 7pm, minor property crimes are not logged etc.

My experiences with ACT police have not inspired confidence that they are above average.

I’m sure ant will somehow twist this…but here goes again (BTW ant, these are not stats)…

Go to this site…

http://www.afp.gov.au/media/act_media/media_releases.html

You will find factual examples of “effective, competant, or civil” policing.

This one…

http://www.afp.gov.au/media_releases/act/2008/20_juveniles_to_face_over_200_charges

…is a good example, and would’ve affected a lot of people.

I’ll ask the question again – if you have had such bad experiences with the police, have you taken steps to remedy this? I’m sure the police who do the right thing don’t want their reputation tarnished by some bad apples. It’s never too late to air a grievance with the ombudsman – so stop bitching about it and do something!

Deadmandrinking said :

Just don’t take it seriously, sleaz, unless your parents were really murdered by some mysterious dude.

Joe Chill (or was it Chile?) wasn’t mysterious! But he was very, very bad.

Sleaz274 – perhaps you could let us all know how Police can investigate and clear a crime that is not reported….Now, if you want to have a discussion about the under-reporting of sexual offences and reasons for this that is another matter altogether. In fact, that would be a very useful debate for RiotACT.

Ant – unlike you my friend I play the ball and not the person. Please tell me where I have used “insults, accusations, profanity and aggression” to counter any other poster’s argument? Further, where have I made “wild claims” or used “generalisations”?

VB Man – give us the facts. It’s easy to make a claim like you have done without backing it up with something substantive.

Nothing any of you has written does anything to strengthen your claims that ACT Policing is incompetent, useless etc – indeed the stats all prove otherwise. Facts are just soooo unforgiving aren’t they?

MRB said

MRB said :

For you to say there is no positive stories is more likely to do with you not wanting to find them – because if you did find them that’d just go against your belief system now wouldn’t it?!?

I’ve cited numerous examples of poor police performance, all from my own experience. I’d cite some positive ones, except I’ve never experienced any. I keep waiting for the angry, aggressive pro-police crew to actually cite some positive stories, but all they (and you) do is cite stats. Sorry, stats are stats, we all know what they are and how they can be used.

Where’s all the satisfied, impressed taxpayers with stories of how the police responded appropriately?

Fact is, that to all of us with actual stories, evidence, experience, the police are a disappointment. Phoning the police for assistance or to do the right thing and report crime, is a waste of time. Our opinion is based on first-hand experince, not stats in some annual report.

And note, I didn’t insult anyone, call anyone names, spray profanity or try to challenge anyone to a fight in this post. The pro-police crew need to look up the term “ad-hominem” and then think about what it’s doing to their cause.

Just don’t take it seriously, sleaz, unless your parents were really murdered by some mysterious dude.

Hahaha yeah maybe I should stop falling asleep watching dexter…

Thecman to take just the first of your stats… that 344 sex offences were reported and 261 were cleared and add in another wonderful little stat which claims that only 1 in 10 sexual offences are reported then we have 3440 sexual offenders wandering around of which 261 were convicted of any crime then we have 3179 people who got away with sexual offences in the ACT. Therefore the percentage chance of getting away with a sexual offence is 92.4%

Need I demonstrate the fallacy of your arguments further…

I have lost all faith with CBR’s police. Have had need to call them two times in the past few years and their attitude : “I couldn’t be farcked with your enquiry.”

There is one thing with ensuring they are staffed adequately… it’s another with the ones who answer the phone.

The latest one was less than 2 weeks ago. Absolutely destroyed any confidence that this Canberra family had with our alleged ‘crime fighters’.

The ACT feds are a joke and deserved to be treated as one.

They should be sacked and replaced with Keystone Cops. Who I reckon will do a better job. It wouldn’t be much harder.

Excuse ME, futto. But I’m batman. Didn’t you get the memo? It’s a conspiracy!

ant, the first-hand accounts are questionable at best.

Go to this site…

http://www.afp.gov.au/media/act_media/media_releases.html

You will find factual examples of “effective, competant, or civil” policing.

This one…

http://www.afp.gov.au/media_releases/act/2008/20_juveniles_to_face_over_200_charges

…is a good example, and would’ve affected a lot of people.

For you to say there is no positive stories is more likely to do with you not wanting to find them – because if you did find them that’d just go against your belief system now wouldn’t it?!?

Sleaz274 is really batman!

People keep putting up first-hand accounts of the police being disappointing. Then others come in with insults, accusations, profanity and aggression. But the “pro police” never offer any counter stories, first-hand accounts of the police being effective, competant, or civil. They make wild claims and make generalisations, accuse everyone of posting under fake names (er, most of us post under fake names, who’d be lame enough to post under more than one fake name?) and of being a vast conspiracy against them.

The more of this they spray around, the more obvious it is why our police are so disappointing.

That’s right Sepi – because the types of crimes you refer to require EVIDENCE to prove. We don’t live in a Police state, therefore our Police require actual admissible facts before they can arrest someone and place them before the Court. The Court then requires proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, before they convict. That’s the real world – not the fantasy world you and your mates live in.

Heh.

Now one way to get very good clearance rates would be to avoid logging crimes that would be hard to solve.

Like property crime, and assaults with no witnesses.

Just saying…

Great ‘story’ Extra, pity it bears absolutely no resemblance to any form of reality. Here are a few facts for you and the rest of the Ant / Farq, DMD, Ingeegoodbee crowd. For the 2006/2007 financial year:

There were 38,832 offences reported to ACT Policing. 13,345 (34.4%) of these were cleared – that is solved – with offenders charged by ACT Police. That is close to the highest clear up rate in Australia.

344 sex offences against children and adults were reported – 261 (75.9%) were cleared.

2584 offences against the person (assaults etc) were reported – 1704 (65.9%) were cleared.

465 drug offences were reported – 454 (97.6%) were cleared.

Of the 38,832 offences reported 83.8% resulted in the offence being proved at Court – another nation leading result.

In addition to the above ACT Police attended 78,111 incidents, conducted 100,993 breath tests and made 6,600 arrests.

Property crime offences at 27,754 have a much lower clear up rate, 15.1% – but I am sure we would all agree that these should have a lower priority then offences threatening human life and safety.

More examples of Police incompetence I suppose. I suspect that the story presented by Extra is a beat up – imaging that on RiotACT, the site where we never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Does your Girlfriend live next door to Belinda Neal’s Canberra residence?

Sorry for teh double post….DMD, how can you blame me for my prose considering the majority of your posts are so anti-police. Nice to see that you are not on the same level as Sleaz…..I thought I was reading Lord of the Flies.

JFC!!!!! I’m with DMD….Sleaz274……Help, professional help pal.

Sleaz…you need some help there, mate.

Well here’s a solution. If the police can’t do anything even when there are witnesses and they have been called out then imagine what you could do to this bugger on your own in some quiet location with no witnesses…

You’ll need duct tape, a baseball bat, bolt cutters, lots of black plastic and a few sharp knives. Simply get to know his habits and arrange a “blitz” style attack, be fast, aggressive and take them completely by surprise…

When the powers that we rely on to provide us with some form of protection, justice and civil society fail in the face of blatant acts then one is forced to respond in another and more direct way. In the societies we were designed for (tribal family groups of between 30 – 150 members) retribution for such acts was swift and savage so when modernity fails there is only one alternative. Don’t be fooled into thinking we have evolved more than our forefathers. We are at this point out of date and because of this the old ways still work remarkably well.

I never said the cops did it, Headbonius.

I just said that it’s possible…

Another sad story of Police inaction
A story to inflame the Pro-Police faction
Extra swears on his story, he swears that its’ true
He’ll swear on his honour till black and till blue

The contents incite the usual crew
Farq, DMD I’m sure Ant’ll post too!
But where are the facts?
The shit the cops need?
To lock up the bad guys and make their ass bleed?

The answer my friends is blowin’ in the wind, the answer is blowin’ in the wind.

Maelinar – Lord, Elf, Ghost, Psychic.

Hmmm… assaults are notoriously hard to prove. If it all happened as you say then you have grounds for complaint. There are always two sides to every story, however and we have only heard yours. And frankly, it doesn’t add up.

By the way, where were you when you were witnessing this ? Did you try to intervene and throw a few punches yourself ? Assault charges should not be used as payback for losing a fight.

I would imagine the police would be interested in covering themselves if anybody was even vaguely injured. This tells me that I suspect your girlfriend would have been more injured in 10 mins of paintball than by the ‘bashing’ suffered from your neighbour.

I’m not discounting that physical contact took place, merely attempting to put it into a circle of relevance – hardly the material for a trip to A&E at any rate.

The police as soon as they turn on the official hat may also suddenly require to examine all the stuff in your house that looks hot, investigate that whiff of green tobacco, etc etc.

I’m not asserting that you are a flagrant criminal, however they may infact have been protecting your asses from a much more serious amount of woe than being hit by your neighbours pea blowpipe. Just suggestions tisall, for all I know your missus is sporting her new shiner at home cause she’s too scared to leave the house.

I’ll make an educated guess that she’s been to the local mall since then though. I get the distinct impression that you also attend summernats, and buy fireworks every year.

If what extra says it true, then that is not acceptable. However, posting on riotact is not going to solve the problem – go to their internal investgations area, if not satisfied with that, go to the Ombudsman.

Posting here only starts off another lengthy discussion of why police are hopeless against why they are not.

It should work both ways – positive experiences should be noted, and negative experiences reported. Have the people who post here that have had a bad experience with the police reported it? If not, why not?

In saying all that, your story does smell a little off (and I’d hardly call yourself, the partner of the victim, an independant witness!)

Presuming this post is kosher – you have to remember police are just public servants with uniforms on.

Some are hard working and sensible others are lazy & couldn’t give a rats.

Some are terrific while some are drunks or mad or corrupt – in equal measure same as the rest of the community.

And one time at Band Camp, Police……

@DJ

As for the questions, i suspect the mod’s put them up there. I am pretty sure ‘Extra’ had nothing to do with that.

As for the whole police resposne thing – pass. Its been done to death and i am over the whole vitriol from both sides of the fence.

No problem CanberraResident!

I live here and now thanks very much Dalryk – your question regarding the claim of rape is hardly in the same category of this claim. Regardless, if the claim was made it would be taken seriously. I suspect that in this case either it didn’t happen or ‘extra’ wasn’t happy with the actions of Police and is venting here… who stands by watching their girlfriend getting bashed? I guess they were hoping for footage to post on YouTube instead of providing EVIDENCE to Police…..

As for your examples… make a complaint if you feel strongly. I’ve noticed that many people don’t and I would speculate that they don’t because their own behaviour was not something they wish t revisit or have examined in detail.

Farq – do you have a good reason for believing such a flimsy story or why it should be believed?

extra, lots of cops here who will try to drown you out no matter what. This does sound like something that should be raised with the ombudsman and maybe the Minister (as well as here) if it is an accurate account. I look forward to reading about the outcome.

sorry sorry sorry to DJ

the above post was intended for EXTRA.

I agree Farq. Ask the other neighbors if they saw anything as well.

DJ, of course people question the veracity of police failures. They just get drowned by the staunch pro-police-in-every-situation-possible crowds.

DJ, there is something not quite right about your story. I doubt the police would just let it go if it was serious enough to proceed. There have been numerous serious and less serious attacks in Canberra, some with NO witnesses, and the police do all they can to investigate those. Why not yours?

You say “bashed”? Strong words my friend. So what were the injuries? What implement was used in the bashing? Was she admitted to hospital, or see a doctor?? How long were you standing there before you intervened, given you say you “witnessed” the incident. Take photos if she’s been “bashed”, you’ll need them as evidence if this goes further.

I suggest you’ve written a rather one-sided story and there’s more to this than meets the eye.

Go to WIN news. I’d love to hear more about this.

DJ, on what planet do you live? I suppose if the girl in question had claimed to be pack raped you would also dismiss her story as implausible, or failing that she asked for it?

I’m sure there’s more to this story than has been revealed, but I’m also sure that whatever the disagreement, it’s no justification for physical violence. And I’m also frustrated that the police didn’t see fit to investigate the matter at all.

I friend of mine recently got caught up in a road rage incident where the other driver, no doubt responding to some percieved slight, got out of his car, opened my mate’s door and proceeded to start pounding away at his head. All this happened on a busy intersection, with multiple witnesses who volunteered their details. They had the guy’s numberplate, his blood was all over the car window (which he had tried to punch through prior to opening the door), and when the police interviewed him he admitted doing it.

I’ll give you two guesses as to whether any charges were laid. And yes is not the right answer.

I’ve personally been assaulted in civic trying to break up another fight, positively identified the guy 5 minutes afterwards (with corroborating witnesses), with blood on his shirt, but the cops let him go because he didn’t have any blood on his hands (which may or may not have been washed in the time between when the bouncers were asked to keep him inside and when we saw him walking out the back entrance).

I don’t know what you have to do in this town to get the cops to actually do something, other than travel 5ks over the speed limit that is.

DJ said :

From what we have been hold (and how it was told) I hope they explained themselves better to the attendig Police – ifthis actually happened. Does it sound like the truth to you? In my opinion ‘extra’ comes across as well educated but the story is not credible to me.

People here question the veracity of everything until it comes allegations of Police failing to act then it seems like it is open day for some who believe that they are always right and Police have picked on them (boo hoo).

And the police here respond like their collective shat never stinks, anyone who suggests so must be lying.

Extra: Lodge a complaint with the Ombudsman.

Sorry for the double post…. if this isn’t fishing for a bite then what is with the poll?

From what we have been hold (and how it was told) I hope they explained themselves better to the attendig Police – ifthis actually happened. Does it sound like the truth to you? In my opinion ‘extra’ comes across as well educated but the story is not credible to me.

People here question the veracity of everything until it comes allegations of Police failing to act then it seems like it is open day for some who believe that they are always right and Police have picked on them (boo hoo).

I cant believe you just stood their and watched your girlfriend get beaten up by her neighbour. If she had any brains she would be giving you the flick you soft bastard

Heaven forbid she was actually assaulted by her neighbor DJ! Who’d believe her then?

I had a very similar incident last month. was doing the music at an 18th birthday party at stromlo and the young boys (18yrs) that live next door turned up with bricks and metal bars and attacked all the adults. Funnily enough none of the young people at this party were assulted. The police and an ambulance was called. There has been no follow up from the AFP. Very dissapointing indeed!! Certainly wont be doing any more 18th birthday parties.

You idiot. Your claims are so pathetic that I would speculate that you are a known RA ‘Police hater’ user another login trying to get another bite.

On the off chance that you are not the above and you believe that this occured, I suppose that the feathers from her angel wings should have been a dead give away to Police that she had nothing whatsoever to do with this incident and was the innocent victim here. Being her partner I bet you’l give everybody a clear-cut honest and impartial account. And no you are not impartial therefore your evidence holds a lot less value than an independent witness.

Happy fishing fool