First you close some schools, then you open some schools

johnboy 11 March 2007 85

Andrew Barr has announced that he’s “consulting” about opening some new schools.

Mr Barr said tenders have been called for a consultancy to undertake the master planning for a new senior secondary college in Gungahlin, and for a project manager for the new west Belconnen School.


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85 Responses to First you close some schools, then you open some schools
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Absent Diane Absent Diane 9:59 am 15 Mar 07

anyone who smacks there kids in public is a bogan. It makes me shudder to even think about how bogany it is.

Maelinar Maelinar 8:15 am 15 Mar 07

An alternative, realtime option:

Allowing for everybody to have minor indiscretions during their early lives, a non-negotiable, cumulative pointscore until they reach the age they can be tried and put in jail for their misdemeanours.

As an example, Detention = 1 point, Theft = 25, Violent Assault = 50.

Get over 100 points, and you get conscripted for a non-negotiable period of three years, and can only enter University as an adult student.

That’s a real consequence, that can be applied as a real punishment. I certainly know that if I was on 99 points I’d be thinking long and hard about backmouthing my teacher.

nyssa76 nyssa76 7:31 am 15 Mar 07

Smaller class sizes.
Smaller schools.
Parents leading by example.
Children being given responsibility at an early age.
Special schools or classes for difficult students.

Seepi, I can tell you now that smaller schools are wonderful but in the ACT they are considered “poison” and the “Super schools” are winning.

There won’t be special schools for behavioural students because it then highlights the reality of what students and their teachers are having to deal with on a daily basis.

nyssa76 nyssa76 7:26 am 15 Mar 07

GnT here’s my response:
I find it interesting how many people who advocate violence against children use the line “I got hit and it never did me any harm”.

(a) I didn’t get hit and it didn’t do me any harm either.

(c) The very fact you are proposing to hit your own children (or mine) proves to me that it did have a negative effect on you.

I work, pay my taxes AND use a smack on the bum as a last resort. See I actually know the psychological/emotional/physical harm from beating a child as opposed to a simple smack on the bum. What are you going to do if your child tries to put a fork in a power point? Talk him her out of it? You’ll do it at least 30 times before you realise a quick smack on the hand stops it.

(b) How do you know? Unless you have an identical twin who wasn’t hit as a control, you don’t know how it could have negatively affected you.

My sister was NEVER hit or abused.

My sister is a junkie, has participated in B&E’s, stolen from her family….and I could go on.

simbo simbo 7:04 am 15 Mar 07

“But it also used to be appropriate for a husband to physically chastise his wife”. Bull shit. Please point out at what stage in our legislative history it was made illegal to hit your spouse? It has always been illegal.

Well, first of all, I said “acceptable”, not legal – there’s a difference.

Second, well, I’ll just cite “Taming of the Shrew” by William Shakespeare as an example of beating your wife being considered acceptable behaviour…

And I’d also have thought it was well understood that, until relatively recently (i.e. post 1960), Police treated doestic violence generally as a misdemenour offence, not as a serious crime.

Look, I accept that personal approaches to violent solutions to problems are just that – personal. And part of my belief in the power of rationality over violence is becuase I’d not be very good at handing out violent punishment – I’m not particularly physically imposing.

Also, I’d say that there’s a difference between PART (which appears to be permitting self-defensive violence against assult, NOT violence for other-corrective-purposes) and what we generally refer to when we’re talking about smacking.

schmerica_ schmerica_ 9:52 pm 14 Mar 07

I understand that it’s easier to physically punish a child than it is a fully grown adult. But whether it’s right or not shouldn’t depend on whether it’s easy. – Simbo

I would assume by the time your an adult you should know right from wrong. A child who behaves a certain way will not know what is right from wrong, and even if that behaviour is explained to them they may still continue to express that behaviour trait. A simple smack on the bum can help them to understand that laying on the floor kicking and screaming in the middle of a shopping centre is just not on.

Special schools or classes for difficult students – Seepi All children have the right to an education. Children with a behavioural problem has just as much right to be in the classroom as a child who does not. Some children respond better to mainstream schooling, others may respond better to schools who specialise in dealing with children who have behavioural problems. You can’t exclude a student because they have a behavioural problem.

By smacking a child, you are reinforcing that the behaviour they have just exibited is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

Bundybear Bundybear 7:23 pm 14 Mar 07

Gotta clear up an earlier comment – PART is Professional Assault Response Training – how to protect yourself and others from assault by an out of control individual who has not been able to be controlled in any other less intrusive fashion.

And it’s become standardised in many areas, of necessity, because people/kids/students lack the boundaries to realise that it’s not appropriate to belt the crap out of someone else, and then turn around and expect no repurcussion for doing so, because we’ve become too bloody wimpy to PUNISH people for doing something wrong.

vg vg 7:17 pm 14 Mar 07

and there is a big difference between what would be considered lawful chastisement, and a cruel beating. I got a smack across the bot when warranted as a child as lecturing me on the finer points of my miscreance would have been pointless. When I was old enough to understand a lecture the smacking stopped.

When my child is naughty he will receive an appropriate smack, not a cruel beating. Feel free to lecture me on my parenting style if you see me take this action publically. Be prepared to be told to mind your own f*cking business as well.

“But it also used to be appropriate for a husband to physically chastise his wife”. Bull shit. Please point out at what stage in our legislative history it was made illegal to hit your spouse? It has always been illegal.

vg vg 7:12 pm 14 Mar 07

“The only reason parents smack their kids is to make themselves feel better (ie. anger release)”

What a load of shit

simbo simbo 7:10 pm 14 Mar 07

It’s generally apparent that it’s not appropriate to physically punish another adult unless they’re causing you an imminent physical danger (I THINK that’s the general law on this – please correct me if I’m wrong).

Why is it therefore appropriate that you can physically punish a child who isn’t causing you an imminent physical danger?

I understand that it’s easier to physically punish a child than it is a fully grown adult. But whether it’s right or not shouldn’t depend on whether it’s easy.

I understand the “I used to get smacked and it never caused me any harm”. But it also used to be appropriate for a husband to physically chastise his wife. And I’m sure several wives felt at the time that they deserved it, and would have said that it didn’t cause them long-term psychological harm.

And yes, I know I’m being deliberately annoying.

mutley mutley 5:40 pm 14 Mar 07

I must say that this thread has diverted somewhat.

mutley mutley 5:39 pm 14 Mar 07

80% of parents smack, so I know I am in the minority, but I hope this discussion has triggered some thought in those of you who make up this statistic.

It has, but probably not the ones you are hoping for.

neanderthalsis neanderthalsis 5:25 pm 14 Mar 07

“smacking is ineffective and can lead to abuse”

A rather simplistic view there. Yes smacking a child can degenerate into something much more sinister, but there are usually other contributing factors. A parent giving a child a quick whack on the gluteus maximus isn’t likely to let it become a thorough beating with a lump of wood that leaves the kid with scars unless there is alcohol/drugs or a mental condition involved.

Most adults know the line that is not to be crossed in disciplining children; to suggest they don’t is an insult.

The bill currently before the NZ parliament is being hotly debated. Indeed it proposes that “parents are allowed to use necessary force for performing the normal daily tasks that are incidental to good care and parenting,” (Thanks to todays Crikey)

I am not a parent, so I have never had to make the choice to smack a naughty child. But I have run alternative education programs for teenagers excluded from the normal education environment and have seen a lot of kids that could have done with a firm guiding hand.

Ari Ari 4:51 pm 14 Mar 07

Danman, unfortunately one of the byproducts of living in Canberra is that is always a plentiful supply of people who are only too happy to share their thoughts on how you should live your life.

Danman Danman 4:45 pm 14 Mar 07

How can people who do not know me or my parents tell me that smacking is ineffective.

What a load of bollocks

GnT GnT 4:35 pm 14 Mar 07

If other methods have failed, smacking won’t work either.

I invite all readers who smack their children to think seriously about their motives, as well as their discipline plan as a whole. I would also invite them to read expert opinions on the issue (Robin Barker and Michael Carr-Gregg are two Australian authors who spring to mind). There is a lot of research on this issue, and the fact that many countries are banning smacking (New Zealand is the latest) reflects current expert opinion that smacking is ineffective and can lead to abuse.

80% of parents smack, so I know I am in the minority, but I hope this discussion has triggered some thought in those of you who make up this statistic.

mutley mutley 3:52 pm 14 Mar 07

The only reason parents smack their kids is to make themselves feel better (ie. anger release)

I’m sorry but that is crap. Parents don’t enjoy smacking their kids. It is a device that they (should) use sparingly, when a child’s behaviour escalates and other methods have failed.

Kramer Kramer 3:04 pm 14 Mar 07

If you are hitting your kids hard enough to hurt them, then that is abuse, if you don’t hit them hard enough to hurt them then its not really effective. The only reason parents smack their kids is to make themselves feel better (ie. anger release).

seepi seepi 2:57 pm 14 Mar 07

Smaller class sizes.
Smaller schools.
Parents leading by example.
Children being given responsibility at an early age.
Special schools or classes for difficult students.

Maelinar Maelinar 2:52 pm 14 Mar 07

So what’s an alternative solution that works then ?

Hit me with your radical ideas.

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