Four killed in Canberra police chase

It would take an infantile mind to believe that sort of hearsay, Spideydog. Ari may trust the person, I don’t know them, nor do a good deal of people who read it. ‘Grown ups’ rely on factual information to make up their minds.

Clown Killer said :

I’m not even interested in whether or not DMD believes it happened or not – if he wants to be an apologist patsy for Williams and his despicable behaviour then so be it.

Who’s being an apologist for Williams? Where?

johnboy said :

You know DMD, just because you stamp your tiny feet doesn’t mean grown ups have to reveal their sources.

I agree.

Thats why “grown up” people can make up their own minds if the information is credible or not.

I am sure there are plenty of people that have a varied knowledge of “Mully” and are able to make more informed opinions on the credibility of that information.

I have an opinion in regard to that, I just choose not to air it on a public forum.

Also, I’m not a pube.

johnboy said :

You know DMD, just because you stamp your tiny feet doesn’t mean grown ups have to reveal their sources.

They don’t have to, regardless of the size of my feet. It’s just not credible if he doesn’t. If Riot-act wants a reputation for misinformation, this is the way to go about it.

TAD said :

If I can throw in my anonymous 2c.

The actions of JW recounted are in line with my knowledge. The actual words not so.

Interesting.

Cheers Jim, by the way.

Or he just doesn’t feel he has to back up his statement to a pimple face pube?

That’s about the sum of it buzz. They guys I know provided me with a version of events that was remarkable similar to the one Ari describes. I’ve known these people for a long time, and I’m prepared to accept what they say on face value.

I’m not even interested in whether or not DMD believes it happened or not – if he wants to be an apologist patsy for Williams and his despicable behaviour then so be it.

sloppery said :

Jim Jones said :

What precisely have you “offered”, sloppery?

Vitriol, perhaps? Impotent internet hissy fits, maybe? Certainly a large serving of pointless, misdirected rage, at very least.

I’ve offered my opinion. I expect it to be taken as such. If you don’t agree, great – tell me why.

Oh, and I’ve also trolled you a few times, because you’re an idiot.

And you don’t think that DMD was offering his opinion?

Nice job on the name-calling; very well done. I’m really impressed. You really showed me who’s boss, didn’t you?

If I can throw in my anonymous 2c.

The actions of JW recounted are in line with my knowledge. The actual words not so.

Deadmandrinking said :

Ari said :

Hey Clown Killer, you do know you shouldn’t be talking to people who really know what went on.

I’ve been told by a logical genius on this site that it has the potential to disrupt the very fabric of our society, maybe even space and time.

If Canberra gets sucked into a black hole, it will be your fault 😉

Rightio, it’s apparent that you are not willing to back up your statement. This either means:

– You know that if you named the guy, he’d get in trouble, which means you know you did the wrong thing by your friend.

– You made it up to seem credible, and clown-killer followed suit.

Or he just doesn’t feel he has to back up his statement to a pimple face pube?

You know DMD, just because you stamp your tiny feet doesn’t mean grown ups have to reveal their sources.

Ari said :

Hey Clown Killer, you do know you shouldn’t be talking to people who really know what went on.

I’ve been told by a logical genius on this site that it has the potential to disrupt the very fabric of our society, maybe even space and time.

If Canberra gets sucked into a black hole, it will be your fault 😉

Rightio, it’s apparent that you are not willing to back up your statement. This either means:

– You know that if you named the guy, he’d get in trouble, which means you know you did the wrong thing by your friend.

– You made it up to seem credible, and clown-killer followed suit.

Jim Jones said :

What precisely have you “offered”, sloppery?

Vitriol, perhaps? Impotent internet hissy fits, maybe? Certainly a large serving of pointless, misdirected rage, at very least.

I’ve offered my opinion. I expect it to be taken as such. If you don’t agree, great – tell me why.

Oh, and I’ve also trolled you a few times, because you’re an idiot.

Ho hum. DMD has his first security clearance/briefing and now considers himself an expert on such matters.

(zOMG!!1!1!!! “SLACK INFORMATION” on an internet forum…whatever next!)

Ari: It looks like global warming is also your fault, along with the public transport problems Canberra is facing. Canberra will never be the same I’m sure.

But I don’t see any great reason to not comment about it either. Respect for the dead/underprivileged whatever is one thing, but when someone has crossed every line you can think of, (eg – killing a baby through criminal stupidity), why bother sticking up for them/their memory?

Sepi pretty much sums it up here.

Don’t like it? No-one is forcing you to read it.

What precisely have you “offered”, sloppery?

Vitriol, perhaps? Impotent internet hissy fits, maybe? Certainly a large serving of pointless, misdirected rage, at very least.

Deadmandrinking said :

Clown Killer said :

Can you source or retract your allegation please?

Having had the chance to talk to a couple of people who have had a professional involvement with the incident I believe that it’s fair to say that Ari’s acquaintance has painted an exceptionally accurate picture of what went on that night.

Sorry, but that doesn’t cut it. Someone in emergency services needs to put their name to it. People posting under aliases quoting unnamed and unidentifiable sources is slack information. Nobody at this point can prove whether both you and Ari are making this up.

So what? If you don’t like it or agree with it, don’t believe it. As usual, you’re picking at others while offering nothing yourself.

I don’t think Ari’s statement needs to be made official by emergency services. It is not a nice thing for either family to have to read.

But I don’t see any great reason to not comment about it either. Respect for the dead/underprivileged whatever is one thing, but when someone has crossed every line you can think of, (eg – killing a baby through criminal stupidity), why bother sticking up for them/their memory?

The most amazing thing is that he seems to have had friends and girlfriends. Yet he was possibly brain damaged, walked with a stick and into drugs and stealing and crashing cars.

Hey Clown Killer, you do know you shouldn’t be talking to people who really know what went on.

I’ve been told by a logical genius on this site that it has the potential to disrupt the very fabric of our society, maybe even space and time.

If Canberra gets sucked into a black hole, it will be your fault 😉

Clown Killer said :

Can you source or retract your allegation please?

Having had the chance to talk to a couple of people who have had a professional involvement with the incident I believe that it’s fair to say that Ari’s acquaintance has painted an exceptionally accurate picture of what went on that night.

Sorry, but that doesn’t cut it. Someone in emergency services needs to put their name to it. People posting under aliases quoting unnamed and unidentifiable sources is slack information. Nobody at this point can prove whether both you and Ari are making this up.

Can you source or retract your allegation please?

Having had the chance to talk to a couple of people who have had a professional involvement with the incident I believe that it’s fair to say that Ari’s acquaintance has painted an exceptionally accurate picture of what went on that night.

Deadmandrinking said :

Ari said :

I prefer to follow Voltaire’s approach: “To the dead we owe only the truth.”

I prefer the logical approach.

Can you source or retract your allegation please?

“We owe respect to the living. To the dead we owe only truth.”

http://thinkexist.com/quotation/we_owe_respect_to_the_living-to_the_dead_we_owe/297908.html

There’s a heap of them there;

“Prejudices are what fools use for reason.”

“No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”

“Each player must accept the cards life deals him or her: but once they are in hand, he or she alone must decide how to play the cards in order to win the game.”

I don’t understand why you would get so upset over a quote?

Ari said :

I prefer to follow Voltaire’s approach: “To the dead we owe only the truth.”

I prefer the logical approach.

Can you source or retract your allegation please?

fgzk said :

I think a lot of people here have been abusive and nasty. That is written fact. Good on you. I don’t see any good in it.

The behaviour I see here is just nasty and abusive.

So are we abusive and nasty, or nasty and abusive? It’s a real conundrum.

fgzk said :

I think a lot of people here have been abusive and nasty. That is written fact. Good on you. I don’t see any good in it.

The behaviour I see here is just nasty and abusive. So I guess you’re just a bunch of nasty people calling other “nasty” people names. That is what I see. Justify as you might, you still are not actually moving our community forward. Just dividing it.

I don’t see much difference in many of the printed views and the stuff Mully wrote on face book. Just different subjects. Do you see the hypocrisy in your approach. To me you are all one in the same.

I missed something out of that, now you are saying that we are the same as junkie scum, who you want to be known as, but you don’t want to be known as being like us, even though we are the same as the junkie scum?

fgzk said :

I think a lot of people here have been abusive and nasty. That is written fact. Good on you. I don’t see any good in it.

The behaviour I see here is just nasty and abusive. So I guess you’re just a bunch of nasty people calling other “nasty” people names. That is what I see. Justify as you might, you still are not actually moving our community forward. Just dividing it.

I don’t see much difference in many of the printed views and the stuff Mully wrote on face book. Just different subjects. Do you see the hypocrisy in your approach. To me you are all one in the same.

I see what your getting at, I really do, Jim has also said umm blah blah blah…

His rants were about how the Police should die and he couldn’t be caught… Umm kinda showed him what for…

I actually met the bloke a couple of times, I must say he was a bit of a cock, does it help that I’m going off personal experience?

fgzk said :

So I guess you’re just a bunch of nasty people calling other “nasty” people names. That is what I see. Justify as you might, you still are not actually moving our community forward. Just dividing it.

That’s about the state of it: a pack of feral animals snarling at a dead dog lying in the gutter.

fgzk said :

Jim I could not read past the first page of this post as it was just the same riotact hypocrisy and discrimination against dead people that we have seen consistently when it comes to a death like this. More of the same. Its funny how the spit flecked mob always shout for murder and killing of people.

I for one am more than happy to be a Scumbag Junkie rather then participate in a Canberra community full of such vitriol, discrimination and abuse. My guess would be that Mully and Scott would agree with me. Some of you aren’t even on drugs and still talk crap. Really what’s your excuse for being so hate filled and bad mannered?

I would much rather that Mully lived so that he could be appropiately punished for the rest of his life for all of the crimes that he commited.

fgzk said :

Did you see Williams make a deliberate choice to live like what ever you think he lived like. No

So people forced him to steal people’s property, endanger people’s lives and be a total sh*t head among other things?

I think a lot of people here have been abusive and nasty. That is written fact. Good on you. I don’t see any good in it.

The behaviour I see here is just nasty and abusive. So I guess you’re just a bunch of nasty people calling other “nasty” people names. That is what I see. Justify as you might, you still are not actually moving our community forward. Just dividing it.

I don’t see much difference in many of the printed views and the stuff Mully wrote on face book. Just different subjects. Do you see the hypocrisy in your approach. To me you are all one in the same.

I’m sorry fgzk, vague media references? I told you the stories?

I’m not mad about any personal experience, I’m upset by people like you who would rather turn a blind eye to the problems and believe that someone must be a good person because other people hate how they poison society?

When you go out and do a days work, I mean a real day’s work, getting your hands dirty, helping other people, being their when you need to make a split second decision, having to make the hard choices. Then on top of that you get people like yourself that would rather see the good in bad and the bad in good, then you come back to me and you tell me how hard done by these people are.

You haven’t given any rhyme nor reason as to why you think the people on the board are wrong and why you are right.

It really isn’t a case of “It doesn’t matter if your right or wrong, just as long as your definite.”

Oh and on a side note, I’m glad you don’t want to identify yourself as being on this side of the community.

sloppery said :

fgzk said :

The Justice system has always existed. Why do you think it would be the solution if it in your own words (sloppery), it does nothing? Yet you still turn to it. How predictable.

Most of our society operates within the wider system of justice within the ACT. People get cranky when their is a perception is is not operating effectively, and people are being hurt as a result. As such, there are some people who are using this as an opportunity to stick it to someone they see as a criminal scumbag. It’s not particularly nice, no, but hardly a reason to fly into a hysterical flap.

Sorry some corrections:

1) Should be ‘there’, not ‘their’
2) Should be ‘it is’, not ‘is is’
3) Should be ‘was a criminal scumbag’, not ‘is a criminal scumbag’

fgzk said :

The Justice system has always existed. Why do you think it would be the solution if it in your own words (sloppery), it does nothing? Yet you still turn to it. How predictable.

Most of our society operates within the wider system of justice within the ACT. People get cranky when their is a perception is is not operating effectively, and people are being hurt as a result. As such, there are some people who are using this as an opportunity to stick it to someone they see as a criminal scumbag. It’s not particularly nice, no, but hardly a reason to fly into a hysterical flap.

Clown Killer said :

fgzk, if someone lives like a dog, then they should expect others to treat them like a dog. Simple as that. It’s not malice. There’s no hatred. Williams deliberately chose the life he led. I just write it as I see it.

What have you got against dogs? Mully wasn’t worthy of being called a dog.

Yes clown Killer you write as you see it. Who are you? What have you seen?

Did you see Williams make a deliberate choice to live like what ever you think he lived like. No. Did you ever see Williams…………………?

I treat my dog just like I treat anyone. They are not so different to people. Kick a dog enough and you will eventually get bitten.

I don’t think I did condone their behaviour what ever that was. I think I implied that Id rather be identify with scumbags and Junkies then be part of “your” community that expresses itself in such a predictable, Hate filled way.

The Justice system has always existed. Why do you think it would be the solution if it in your own words (sloppery), it does nothing? Yet you still turn to it. How predictable.

Buzz you really have just done the same old. Made claims about what was, when it wasn’t. Peppered it with abusive assumptions. Backed up with vague references to the media and supported by a common personal experience that you are still angry about. So what. Where does that get us all as a community. Is it any real surprise that a whole lot of people couldn’t care less about your so called moral values. I certainly don’t.

fgzk, if someone lives like a dog, then they should expect others to treat them like a dog. Simple as that. It’s not malice. There’s no hatred. Williams deliberately chose the life he led. I just write it as I see it.

fgzk said :

Really what’s your excuse for being so hate filled and bad mannered?

We’re sick of loser scumbags hurting the community while the justice system does nothing about it.

fgzk said :

Jim I could not read past the first page of this post as it was just the same riotact hypocrisy and discrimination against dead people that we have seen consistently when it comes to a death like this. More of the same. Its funny how the spit flecked mob always shout for murder and killing of people.

I for one am more than happy to be a Scumbag Junkie rather then participate in a Canberra community full of such vitriol, discrimination and abuse. My guess would be that Mully and Scott would agree with me. Some of you aren’t even on drugs and still talk crap. Really what’s your excuse for being so hate filled and bad mannered?

Because scum bag junkies steal our cars, burgle our houses, rob our kids and damage our property.

I for one have had all those (except the whole kids thing) happen to me.

You maybe saying oh shock horror that bad man is stereo typing.

I don’t any other people other than scumbag junkies who get caught for these crimes.

If people were to keep their hands to themselves, not touch other peoples property, not bash their wives then there wouldn’t be as much hate in the world!

I think you will find that people have just had enough of it. Have a look in the news lately, that Scottish guy that got king hit, cause he got off the bus, two more accidents involving people in stolen cars – WHILE THEY WERE DRINK DRIVING!

You say these people deserve to live how they want, I say if they can follow my moral codes and principles, which you will find fit pretty nicely with the average citizen, then their deaths would be more tragic.

The only tragic thing to come out of this is all the tree hugging hippies who think that no one deserves to die, that people are basically good underneath it all.

Some people need to wake up to themselves, the hate felt on this board is not the cause of the violence and angst out on the street, it is the effect of the judicial system not being tough enough, it is the effect of people walking around hurting, stealing and damaging other people and their property.

How’s that for a good excuse fgzk?

What’s your excuse for condoning the above behavior?

Jim I could not read past the first page of this post as it was just the same riotact hypocrisy and discrimination against dead people that we have seen consistently when it comes to a death like this. More of the same. Its funny how the spit flecked mob always shout for murder and killing of people.

I for one am more than happy to be a Scumbag Junkie rather then participate in a Canberra community full of such vitriol, discrimination and abuse. My guess would be that Mully and Scott would agree with me. Some of you aren’t even on drugs and still talk crap. Really what’s your excuse for being so hate filled and bad mannered?

In all seriousness have you ever hung out with police/ambos/fireies/casualty nurses and not been entertained by their tales of what really happens when the brown stuff comes into contact with the spinning thing? I’ve always seen it as a tool that these guys use to work through some of the stuff that they deal with almost every day.

Ari, I would think long and hard before posting private information like this again. This public-service town is a leaky boat enough when it comes to information. It only stays stable by people knowing when to keep their gobs shut.

My comment undermines the stability of this city? LOL

Wow, such gratuitous pomposity from such a little man.

I prefer to follow Voltaire’s approach: “To the dead we owe only the truth.”

And from JB’s rough polling it seems 90% of riotact readers agree with me.

Ian said :

Deadmandrinking said :

I actually agree with you on this. I really don’t think gossiping about experiences at accident scenes is something emergency workers should be doing. Very bad form in my opinion.

Emergency workers have to keep a lot of sensitive information – this doesn’t really classify as that though. It was anecdotal, it has no bearing on a court case, public legislation or insider trading, which are all classed as sensitive information.

This is exactly the same as a check out chick telling her partner about rude customers, nurses telling family about the horrible stuff they do at work, Police telling friends about incidents they attend.

Ian and DandD need to have a look at the conversations they have with mates about what they do at work and try and classify this… Or just stop whinging about every stupid little thing that comes up…

Deadmandrinking said :

No matter what the person involved has done, releasing sensitive information (i.e. dying words – stuff that hasn’t been reported in the media) is still a breach of the trust people involved in emergency services work are given.

I actually agree with you on this. I really don’t think gossiping about experiences at accident scenes is something emergency workers should be doing. Very bad form in my opinion.

Jim Jones said :

Publicly gloating about someone who died in a car accident – now that’s classy.

Cry me a river.

“No-one who’s had any personal involvement with anyone involved in the accident has come forward”

You sure about that?

Deadmandrinking said :

Ari’s friend has betrayed the trust given to them. They are a detriment to their profession. People who think otherwise are not suited to be working in areas where they come across private information.

Do you really believe Mully entered into a “trust pact” at the scene ……. FFS You really cannot be serious ????

Jim Jones said :

Are you suggesting that, if people don’t act like jerks on the internet that they’ll form actual lynch mobs?

Did people who lived during the middle ages have access to the internet? No they didn’t. Think about it.

So people can say whatever they want, because they’re angry?

Sounds pretty stupid to me. The ‘anger’ expressed here is little more than spittle-flecked ‘hang em high’ impotent internet fury. Saying that people who died in a car crash “had it coming” is about as low as it gets in my book – the people who say this sort of thing aren’t any better than common criminals. Precisely how is this “better than some of the alternatives”? Are you suggesting that, if people don’t act like jerks on the internet that they’ll form actual lynch mobs? Somehow I strongly doubt it.

No-one who’s had any personal involvement with anyone involved in the accident has come forward.

sloppery said :

Deadmandrinking said :

This public-service town is a leaky boat enough when it comes to information. It only stays stable by people knowing when to keep their gobs shut.

Not trying to be rude here, but how would you know? Aren’t you still in school?

There’s a lot of public anger about this incident, for many reasons. People discussing this stuff on a public website isn’t particularly nice, but is much better than some of the alternatives. And isn’t the lesser evil what you’re all about?

I do know, because, aside from study, I also work in an area where privacy is taken seriously i.e. divulging certain information I come across can be against the law. I assume it is the same with emergency services. Many of my friends and some family are in the public service. They are careful about what they say in regards to work.

Ari’s friend has betrayed the trust given to them. They are a detriment to their profession. People who think otherwise are not suited to be working in areas where they come across private information.

Deadmandrinking said :

This public-service town is a leaky boat enough when it comes to information. It only stays stable by people knowing when to keep their gobs shut.

Not trying to be rude here, but how would you know? Aren’t you still in school?

There’s a lot of public anger about this incident, for many reasons. People discussing this stuff on a public website isn’t particularly nice, but is much better than some of the alternatives. And isn’t the lesser evil what you’re all about?

A clear breach of his privacy – he’s dead or did you miss that piece of information.

The poster was passing on information they received by someone who was in the know. Just sheds a bit more light on the subject.

Clown Killer said :

Try drawing a breath for a minute and have a think about this maggots handy work. Anything that contributes to this a-hole getting more sh!t dumped on him can only be a good thing. As far as I’m concerned the PC apologists and namby pamby douche-bags can go cry me a river. Williams was no more than a pathetic toe-rag who did the world a favour by removing himself from the gene pool. Let’s make some fun out of it while we can.

I am *really* glad I don’t know you in real life.

Try drawing a breath for a minute and have a think about this maggots handy work. Anything that contributes to this a-hole getting more sh!t dumped on him can only be a good thing. As far as I’m concerned the PC apologists and namby pamby douche-bags can go cry me a river. Williams was no more than a pathetic toe-rag who did the world a favour by removing himself from the gene pool. Let’s make some fun out of it while we can.

Ian said :

Deadmandrinking said :

It’s easy to spread rumors about dead people, isn’t it?

In Mully’s case, live like a piece of shit, and fittingly be remembered as one.

That’s a little different to making unprovable claims.

Until whoever this emergency services person is puts their name to that statement, it is simply a rumor, and a rather nasty one at that. If this emergency services person puts their name to it, however, they will most likely be investigated for breaching privacy. They have already committed this offense once by revealing this information to Ari.

No matter what the person involved has done, releasing sensitive information (i.e. dying words – stuff that hasn’t been reported in the media) is still a breach of the trust people involved in emergency services work are given. If an emergency services person reveals this information, how do we know they won’t leak the details of say, a suicide? I don’t think anyone on this site could rightly say they would want those details released if it was a loved one of theirs.

The rumor is also rather vague, ‘along the lines of’. It also pays no attention to the fact that ‘Mully’ was dying, which can skew people’s priorities.

Justin Williams may have been foolish in his actions and the consequences appear to be the fault of no-one but himself (although, the police officers’ actions will need to be investigated – but there is nothing to show they were at fault and I do feel sorry for them having had to witness such a terrible thing), but to further demonize him with hearsay and/or clear breaches of him and his family’s privacy is nothing short of irresponsible.

Ari, I would think long and hard before posting private information like this again. This public-service town is a leaky boat enough when it comes to information. It only stays stable by people knowing when to keep their gobs shut.

Publicly gloating about someone who died in a car accident – now that’s classy.

Tooks said :

p1 said :

A memorial has appeared in a fitting place in Woden.

Yep, definitely a fitting place for his memorial. Classy bloke, classy friends.

+1

Not much more to add to that, is there?

They should charge tickets for the public watch this sort of thing. Taking some kids there for a school excursion might be a good idea too..

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/sheriff-joe-arpaio-makes-maricopa-county-inmates-pedal-to-watch-tv/story-e6frfku0-1225850182634

I swear this Sheriff is awesome. Where do we get one?

Deadmandrinking said :

It’s easy to spread rumors about dead people, isn’t it?

In Mully’s case, live like a piece of shit, and fittingly be remembered as one.

Gerry-Built said :

The baby killed was on mum’s lap, not in a capsule…

Probably wouldn’t have helped even if he was in a capsule.

The baby killed was on mum’s lap, not in a capsule…

Is this a record response for RA?

Ari said :

Today I heard an account from one of the emergency workers at the crash scene … apparently Mully was quite lucid for a time after the impact, screaming and yelling obscenities and demanding to be cut free as soon as possible. When told he had just killed three people, his reply was along the lines of: “Why should I give a f*ck? Just get me out of here.”

What a pity he didn’t make it.

It’s easy to spread rumors about dead people, isn’t it?

Mr Evil said :

Maybe “Snuck” used to meet Mully in there for romantic interludes – that was their “special place”?

An acquaintance of mine contends that that memorial is at one of Mully’s known hangouts, and that he had actually had a brief ‘relationship’ with Mully at said location.

Today I heard an account from one of the emergency workers at the crash scene … apparently Mully was quite lucid for a time after the impact, screaming and yelling obscenities and demanding to be cut free as soon as possible. When told he had just killed three people, his reply was along the lines of: “Why should I give a f*ck? Just get me out of here.”

What a pity he didn’t make it.

p1 said :

A memorial has appeared in a fitting place in Woden.

Maybe “Snuck” used to meet Mully in there for romantic interludes – that was their “special place”?

I’m sorry to point this out to people like “Snuck”, but ahem, Mully won’t be able to read this scrawl now that he’s dead. In fact, when he was alive he probably wouldn’t be able to read it either, because he spent so little time learning at school.

So what’s the point of painting it all over the Woden Interchange – just to out-mourn all your mates, or something? Why not do something constructive, like tell his mates and family that it really isn’t cool to be a criminal who never takes responsibility for any of his actions, or look after his kids, and that killing others and dying at the age of 23 from horrific injuries inflicted in a road smash isn’t something to aim for in life?

p1 said :

A memorial has appeared in a fitting place in Woden.

Yep, definitely a fitting place for his memorial. Classy bloke, classy friends.

p1 said :

A memorial has appeared in a fitting place in Woden.[/quote

sniff, that’s so bewdiful

Wraith said :

Think I just figured out who you are………….

Not exactly rocket science, in less than a minute I found out his name, suburb, marital status, offspring, how many vehicles he has owned, current vehicle (and details of the one that was stolen ‘a couple of weeks’ before the incident), and occupation (or lack thereof).

No doubt further reading would unveil more but I’m wondering what your point in publishing that sentence is, seeing as sprintman is probably not going to know who you are.

In case you are wondering, my point is that people make it too easy to track down their personal details online

sprintman said :

The 626 in question would do 200+ easily, it wasn’t ‘stock’. Ask me how I know?

Think I just figured out who you are………….

A memorial has appeared in a fitting place in Woden.

It is faaar too easy to be a lounge chair critic and blast other peoples suggestions, than to name some of your own.

Sure, you are not obliged to “offer” a suggestion, but for example, politicians that blast the other sides policies, but offer none of their own, don’t get votes in the community ??!!

Deadmandrinking said :

Obviously Jim’s comment went straight over your head, Special G.

How about we stop demonizing infants that die in car crashes for a start? How’s that for a suggestion?

Jim jumped far over the mark I was asking for. Most people have commented that the infant was the only innocent one involved in the collision. I agree, as everyone else shouldn’t have been there and was committing an offence by doing so. (Mind you aid and abet breach of bail not an offence but you get the idea)

My comment to you is that you quite happily shoot down everyone elses suggestions but don’t offer any solutions to the issue. They don’t have to be discussion papers just a suggestion which can then be discussed. This being a forum and all.

Obviously Jim’s comment went straight over your head, Special G.

How about we stop demonizing infants that die in car crashes for a start? How’s that for a suggestion?

motleychick said :

Solidarity said :

I say we just rig all Jeam Beam and Cola cans (and varients) with sterilisation drugs, and let the problem solve itself.

Love it!!

Not usually one to endorse forced sterilisation onto people, I find it a cruel practise. I found this one perfectly reasonable, I too love it!

Bring something to the party then Jim. By reading my post you can assume I have had a number of discussions with DMD on this type of issue. I’m not asking for failsafe full comprehensive plans just suggestions. That is what people do to add to a discussion.

eg:

Your idea sux, drugs are good mkay. (DMD’s normal response)
My response – and your suggestions would be?
suggestion – govt makes it compulsary to have engine immobilisers to register your car.

@Thumper

Helicopter gunships are so 1990’s – its all UAV’s now see – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle. They carry a pretty substantial payload and can cause some serios havoc.

Solidarity said :

I say we just rig all Jeam Beam and Cola cans (and varients) with sterilisation drugs, and let the problem solve itself.

Love it!!

Special G said :

DMD is bringing his normal crap without making any suggestiuons on how to fix the issue. Add some solutions?

By this logic you have no right in criticising the criminal justice system in Australia without first having a failsafe comprehensive plan to restructure the judiciary, law enforcement and rehabilitation social systems, from the ground up.

Are you really saying that no one is allowed to criticise anything without having an alternative? Was there some sort of law passed while I was sleeping?

Special G said :

DMD is bringing his normal crap without making any suggestiuons on how to fix the issue. Add some solutions?

What if Police had continued to pursue – then they may have been alert by the lights and sirens to the speeding car heading towards them and not entered the intersection. Is this reason enough for Police to never call off a pursuit – simply to use the warning devices to warn other drivers?

Perhaps, but then again, wouldn’t the driver be more erratic if the cops were right on his heel? Car Thieves are not looking to kill people or themselves, you know.

I say we just rig all Jeam Beam and Cola cans (and varients) with sterilisation drugs, and let the problem solve itself.

Helicopter gunships on 24 hour stand by.

You know I am right 🙂

Armed with bogan-seeking missiles.

Helicopter gunships on 24 hour stand by.

You know I am right 🙂

Let’s get our head out of the clouds and find something a little more within Canberra’s budget. For the price of one road side artwork you should be able to put a sniper and spotter on top of a speed camera van.

Ending Police chases is not going to stop people getting killed on our roads. Stupid people speeding are always going to offing themselves, and occasionally they will take others with them. High-speed chases are likely to be a reality as long as there are stupid people who get kicks from speeding (at excessive speeds)… The risks to the general public from a lack of a deterrent against sociopathic behaviours far outweighs the few deaths “caused” by or attributed to them. If anyone wants “justice” for the victims, perhaps a good look at a justice system which allowed a man with so many convictions for similar crimes to avoid some serious gaol time is warranted.

Blame for this whole accident lies absolutely, and purely, at the feet of Justin Williams. Whilst his family apportion blame in their time of grief, perhaps it is worth noting that it was only a matter of time until he topped himself ‘doing what he loved’… He was an accident waiting to happen (and he had proven that several times) – “the best predictor of future behaviour, is past behaviour”. He was never going to “grow out” of this sociopathic behaviour…

Ceej1973 said :

Make the warning devices (sirens) on Emergency vehicles louder. The whine that comes out of Australian Emergency vehicles is piddly compared to those in Europe.

Nah if you do that, everyone on RA will post up on here complaining of too much noise again

peterh said :

Just interested to know if there are any alternatives to purely chasing a driver. This is a tragedy for all concerned, I offer my sympathies to the families of those killed – i do not believe a blame game will do anything to bring them back, but perhaps there are better ways to prevent this kind of terrible accident occuring again?

If there is, let’s hope equal thoughts are given to preventing the crime in the first place, rather than simply methods of reacting to it.

Simple fact still remains, if repeat offender Williams didn’t act like a tool, this particular “accident” wouldn’t have happened.

Do you REALLY BELIEVE This Young MAN wanted and PLANNED to KILL a family friend or not ?!!!!
If the police have no blame why do the chasers HIDE like criminals after the fact???

I don’t blame the police just like i don’t blame JUSTIN MULLY WILLIAMS

No, I’m sure he didn’t want to or plan to, but it was the clearly foreseeable consequence of his stupidity. If he doesn’t steal the car and drive like a dickhead he doesn’t attract the police’s attention and get chased. Even when chased he always had the option to stop. No-one forced him to run and keep running.

As for blame, I know there are plenty of people who seem to want to live in a blame free world where no-one is responsible for their actions, but in this case 100% of the blame lies with Justin Williams. Everything that happened is the result of his bad choices.

Make the warning devices (sirens) on Emergency vehicles louder. The whine that comes out of Australian Emergency vehicles is piddly compared to those in Europe.

I stand corrected “summernats” is that not the correct title? I don’t know, I’ve only ever been once.
What I was trying to say was I think BLAME is such a useless thing and yet if there were not these forums and everyone “speaking ” their mind you don’t really get the full impact of any
one thing. In that way it’s a good thing- a really good thing!!!
You need perspective and you can’t get that without everyone’s point of view.
I just don’t have blame in my heart for this.. only an awful confusion as if it might have happened to me or my loved ones.
We are not just responsible for ourselves! There really is no US and THEM when it comes to the REAL world.

AND YES i love CAPS for emphasis.

PEACE to the families and all affected by this local tragedy.

So we won’t blame ‘mully’ for stealing that car, causing that police chase and driving 200kph+ on a public road

Never was going 200 k/ph, never was going to.

cb60 said :

I’m feeling very upset by the comments on either side of the fence regarding the crash in Canberra which I cannot stop thinking about because I go there everyday – it is MY backyard en route as I’m sure for most!

I have feelings for those angry about it to the point where they wish BAD on the “soul” of the transgressor and I have feelings for the police that chased and mostly I have feelings for the family of the one person who survived! Mostly for her because she has survived and thank goodness she has and thank her family for standing by her.

WE Canberrans who love SUPERNATS and AMERICAN movies WITH CAR CHASES – how can any of you blame anyone for what transpired! On one hand you love car chases but on the other not if it kills a family. Do you REALLY BELIEVE This Young MAN wanted and PLANNED to KILL a family friend or not ?!!!!
If the police have no blame why do the chasers HIDE like criminals after the fact???

I don’t blame the police just like i don’t blame JUSTIN MULLY WILLIAMS

I hope for a tolerant INTELLIGENT local SOCIETY to protect OUR CHILDREN

So we won’t blame ‘mully’ for stealing that car, causing that police chase and driving 200kph+ on a public road??
It is extremely fortunate that he didn’t kill more people in his police pursuit.

I believe in karma and he got what was coming to him.

DMD is bringing his normal crap without making any suggestiuons on how to fix the issue. Add some solutions?

What if Police had continued to pursue – then they may have been alert by the lights and sirens to the speeding car heading towards them and not entered the intersection. Is this reason enough for Police to never call off a pursuit – simply to use the warning devices to warn other drivers?

It is a shame that people are taking such a harsh view on whether the driver deserved to die and even the others involved. I personally don’t think anyone “deserves” to die.
I am however of the belief that all the blame for this tragedy lies with the driver of the speeding car. No one forced him to run red lights. And regardless of the backgrounds of any of the people involved it was an absolute tragedy that occurred and I cant imagine what the families are going through.

I think that an automatic jail sentence for fleeing would be a good idea as just like drink driving you may not “intend” to kill someone but in the end too often that is the result.

I was wondering if the NSW police and the AFP have access to spike strips and slow down devices for pursuits? maybe there are methods the police could have used to slow the driver down, without any loss of life?

Just interested to know if there are any alternatives to purely chasing a driver. This is a tragedy for all concerned, I offer my sympathies to the families of those killed – i do not believe a blame game will do anything to bring them back, but perhaps there are better ways to prevent this kind of terrible accident occuring again?

Deadmandrinking said :

Every life lost before it’s time is a loss to society.

If they died then it obviously was their time to go…

For some reason when I quoted DMD’s post the browser submitted the page… oh well…

I was going to point out that if Scott hadn’t been breaching bail conditions imposed less than 2 days earlier, either the bub, or the bub’s mum, would still be alive.

That said, being a career crim doesn’t mean you should get killed with your family in a car accident.

I think she new exactly what she was getting into, as did her family and friends……this little snippet is posted on her Facebook wall

Skye-b Webbe by far the wrost friday night ever!!!!!! 🙁
30 January at 04:01 • View feedback (5)Hide feedback (5)

Rian xxx
Whats up
30 January at 04:32

Skye-b Webbe
not much… i almost got locked up last night and fuck copps r doggs
30 January at 12:38

Aleisha xxx
lol naughty girls haha
30 January at 12:45

Skye-b Webbe
i kno right but y blam me for something we didnt do???
lik how can we stell a car…
30 January at 12:46

Rian xxx
Steal you mean lmao yeah you do know
31 January at 02:13

Clown Killer, nobody deserves to die. That is indisputable fact.

See there you go shooting yourself in the foot again DMD. You’re wrong simply by the fact that I am disputing it – by definition then it is disputable. I’m not suggesting that you can’t have strong feelings about whether or not a person deserves to die, or even whether or not the broader community should believe that a person deserves to die – its simply the case the that the whole matter isn’t black and white.

People who commit suicide are essentially making a decision that they deserve to die. Internationally, many states have enacted the sanctioned killing of certain classes of people at the behest of their communities. It’s by no means a fact … at best it is a point of view.

None of this should be confused with, or interpreted to suggest that I am happy that these people died, or that I view their death is a just outcome of their actions – all I’m saying is: on the balance of things it’s no big loss and I’m not losing any sleep over it.

I will pull you up on the matter of the criminality of Scott Oppelaar’s actions. Breaching bail conditions is a crime, it’s not like returning your library books late. Bail conditions are designed to protect the integrity of the judicial process, to help the defendant avoid re-offending and to protect the community. If Oppalaar was not breaching his bail conditions at the time and if Sam Ford was not aiding and abetting Oppalaar in the commission of those crimes – crimes that by definition they were committing as they entered the intersection then they are unlikely to have been killed along with their young son.

Deadmandrinking said :

Recovery of stolen property is not worth lives.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn’t it.

Let’s have a couple more scenarios for that night:-

Suppose the driver of the vehicle was extremely intoxicated and would have blindly driven through every red light that night until he reached his destination, ran over a pedestrian or collided with an innocent family’s car. Wouldn’t it be best to pursue to avoid those incidents from potentially occuring

Suppose the driver had just abducted a woman or child, with the intent of raping and murdering the victim. Wouldn’t it be best to pursue to prevent it.

Just because in this instance it was stolen property only doesn’t mean it always will be. One thing you are right about is that the policy needs to be reviewed and police need to be given the authority where it will not endanger the general public to physically force a vehicle off the road. I would happily pay higher taxes to cover the cost of damaged vehicles to see events such as this brought to a stop sooner, but as I have said, once aprehended the offender should be made to work off the debt of the damage they inflict.

As for the new technologies that have been talked about like the sticky ball GPS thingy, do people seriously believe that an offender would NOT travel at great speed in an attempt to reach a ‘safe’ place to ditch the vehicle – no difference in the drivers mentality as far as I am concerned, if they introduce this system the offender will still drive like the police are right on their tale

I have no qualms in saying I think Justin Williams deserved to die. I grew up with many people like him and honestly they are a waste of space, horrible people. I’m sure all the people he affected with his life of crime feel the same.

I’m not sure if that post by BO GANN on Mully’s Facebook page had some honesty to it (I hope not) but sadly it sounds exactly like the early life of ‘career criminals’. It disgusts me.

I grew up in the same neighbourhood as a sociopathic career criminal who tortured animals, beat up innocent people (severely and with weapons I might add), stole cars, took drugs, sold drugs, armed robbery, burglary the list is endless… I think he went to the remand centre a few times but he was a sociopath, so until he was locked up in gaol or dead he was always going to hurt someone. Eventually he overdosed in his early 20’s and suddenly the world was a better place.

For those out there negatively affected by Mully’s criminal activity (his victims, police, lawyers, next door neighbours, students in his class etc) don’t feel bad for not having the slightest feelings of sympathy towards him or his family.

cb60 I’m sure Dr Jayant Patel would love you as a patient.

cb60 said :

I don’t blame the police just like i don’t blame JUSTIN MULLY WILLIAMS

I hope for a tolerant INTELLIGENT local SOCIETY to protect OUR CHILDREN

You might want to RE-READ the NEWS reports and see WHAT the car thief YOU’RE not BLAMING did to PROTECT our children.

Fact is a baby is dead, and the person to blame is dead. Williams isn’t going to learn a lesson from this, if he ever could. The only lesson to gain from this tragedy is a reminder to drive defensively, all sorts of people have access in this society to moving one-ton blocks of metal, and to look left and right at green traffic lights.

George, how about people stop demonizing the victims and their families? Would that not be a good start?

Craig…er…you do realize that there’s a difference between serial killers, murderous dictators and car thieves, don’t you? Justin wasn’t intending to kill anyone. Also, Milat and Mugabe deserve nothing less than to spend the rest of their lives in a cell with their sins to haunt them.

Clown Killer, nobody deserves to die. That is indisputable fact. Especially infants, regardless of how many ‘odds are stacked against them’. Every life lost before it’s time is a loss to society.

Special G, it’s strange, but your usual right-wing stance stands out as more comprehensive and thought-through than the new crop. Still, I must say that I disagree with you mostly. Whilst, if it’s true, Scott’s license situation shouldn’t have had him on the road, his actions still did not directly contribute to the fatal crash. As far as we know, the crash was caused solely by Justin’s actions. Therefore, I don’t see Scott as being anything but an innocent victim as do I his wife and child.

All Skye did was get in a car driven by her boyfriend. I don’t know if she knew it had been stolen, there’s equal chance either way. What’s for sure is that there’s nothing you can really do when you’re in a car that’s going 200k+.

Pandy, you’re not going to slip by either. Skye’s mum is a distraught mother who’s daughter is swinging between life and death in a hospital. I don’t know why a Current Affair thought it appropriate to interview her in this state. She’s hardly going to start damning her daughter on live television is she?

But I’m not going to sit here and say the police should face charges or anything. Skye’s mum is speaking from motherly instincts. I will say it needs to be investigated, as does the current policy regarding car chases. Recovery of stolen property is not worth lives.

Deadmandrinking said :

After reading the many posts here, I must say that I am nothing but absolutely disgusted by the attitudes of some posters here, more than usual.

Nobody deserves to die. How many times does that have to be beaten into thick heads?

Mr Oppelaar’s criminal history is irrelevant to this tragedy. I think it’s only the irresponsibility of some that has seen that information come to light. His wife’s history is also of no consequence.

Skyye Webb did something stupid at 18. Who didn’t? And believe it or not, the stupid thing she did is pretty easy to get into, pretty hard to get out of. It is not her mothers fault. Are people seriously suggesting that her mother, who at the present time is only guilty of having body ink (like many women, from all socioeconomic backgrounds) control who their 18 year old goes out with? What is this? The Victorian Era?

What has emerged from this horrible tragedy, selfishly and with no regard for innocent lives lost and changed forever, is an underlying sentiment by a moronic few that their lives are somehow worth more than others. The people who bear this sentiment’s place in society is questionable. This society is based on a principle that all human life is equal and that the capability to think otherwise can only come from the criminally sociopath. Some people on here need to take a good long hard look at themselves.

So what’s your solution? Instead of bagging everyone, offer something up for discussion.

Deadmandrinking said :

Nobody deserves to die.

Demonstrably false.

Ivan Milat deserves to die.
Robert Mugabe deserves to die.
Justin deserved to die.
Anybody who threatens people with a weapon to rob a bank deserves to die.

Among others.

Deadmandrinking said :

After reading the many posts here, I must say that I am nothing but absolutely disgusted by the attitudes of some posters here, more than usual.

Nobody deserves to die. How many times does that have to be beaten into thick heads?

Mr Oppelaar’s criminal history is irrelevant to this tragedy. I think it’s only the irresponsibility of some that has seen that information come to light. His wife’s history is also of no consequence.

Skyye Webb did something stupid at 18. Who didn’t? And believe it or not, the stupid thing she did is pretty easy to get into, pretty hard to get out of. It is not her mothers fault. Are people seriously suggesting that her mother, who at the present time is only guilty of having body ink (like many women, from all socioeconomic backgrounds) control who their 18 year old goes out with? What is this? The Victorian Era?

What has emerged from this horrible tragedy, selfishly and with no regard for innocent lives lost and changed forever, is an underlying sentiment by a moronic few that their lives are somehow worth more than others. The people who bear this sentiment’s place in society is questionable. This society is based on a principle that all human life is equal and that the capability to think otherwise can only come from the criminally sociopath. Some people on here need to take a good long hard look at themselves.

DMD with his usual stance. The views here are fairly representative of the community. I think people are simply fed up with recidevist offenders.

I will agree with you that nobody deserved to die. People like him should be incarcerated for a long time until they can prove they are rehabilitated and ready to go back into society.

Mr Oppelaars history has been brought to light and as I previously said he was breaching several bail conditions by being there with Ms Ford and driving a car. He continued to show complete disdain for the system we reside in. His partner showed equal disdain by assisting his non-compliance.

What if Police had attempted to stop him on the night? Would he have run possibly crashing into the innocent Mully Williams in a role reversal?

It’s also about time we stopped putting things down to just doing something stupid. She got in a stolen car with her boyfriend. You can’t go dragging out a bunch of reasons that she wouldn’t have known it was stolen because I’ll call bullshit on each and every one of them.

I also did stupid things at age 18. I went to school, joined the military, had parties, engaged in plenty of irresposible alcohol drinking with mates. I didn’t steal cars, break into houses, engage in police pursuits, deal drugs, or kill people.

cb60 said :

I’m feeling very upset by the comments on either side of the fence regarding the crash in Canberra which I cannot stop thinking about because I go there everyday – it is MY backyard en route as I’m sure for most!

I have feelings for those angry about it to the point where they wish BAD on the “soul” of the transgressor and I have feelings for the police that chased and mostly I have feelings for the family of the one person who survived! Mostly for her because she has survived and thank goodness she has and thank her family for standing by her.

WE Canberrans who love SUPERNATS and AMERICAN movies WITH CAR CHASES – how can any of you blame anyone for what transpired! On one hand you love car chases but on the other not if it kills a family. Do you REALLY BELIEVE This Young MAN wanted and PLANNED to KILL a family friend or not ?!!!!
If the police have no blame why do the chasers HIDE like criminals after the fact???

I don’t blame the police just like i don’t blame JUSTIN MULLY WILLIAMS

I hope for a tolerant INTELLIGENT local SOCIETY to protect OUR CHILDREN

This is a particularly good rant – SUPERNATS really does you justice as well as the odd words in caps.

Put the blame where it lies – Mully Williams – think on that for a moment – ‘Mully’ I’m sure it was his capacity for community service which got him that nickname.

cb60 said :

WE Canberrans who love SUPERNATS

We don’t all love summernats

cb60 said :

and AMERICAN movies WITH CAR CHASES

I, like many, enjoy watching films that as an educated adult understand are works of fiction.

cb60 said :

Do you REALLY BELIEVE This Young MAN wanted and PLANNED to KILL a family

No, but I do believe he acted with careless disregard for other lives, other lives which could have been my family or your family. Judging by previous admissions by the shitbag I believe he would have taken the opportunity if given to him to use his vehicle as a weapon against law enforcement officers.

cb60 said :

i don’t blame JUSTIN MULLY WILLIAMS

You drive past the scene every day, and you think it wasn’t the fault of someone that drove through a red light at 200KPH. Shitbag is 100% to blame for his own actions. Our legal system is to blame of not throwing away the key on this scum sucking low-life waste of space waste of oxygen deadshit f*ckwit loser shitbag a long time ago.

cb60 said :

If the police have no blame why do the chasers HIDE like criminals after the fact???

Wouldn’t you lay low if the anger of a community that gives little respect to the law and legal process was directed at you.

cb60 said :

I hope for a tolerant INTELLIGENT local SOCIETY to protect OUR CHILDREN

Intelligent, maybe, how about an ethical society. As for tolerant, tolerant of what. Tolerant of other races, yes. Tolerant of someone that deprives other members of the society of what they have worked hard for by stealing a car, I dont think so.

DMD, get some perspective. Reality is that it’s your opinion that ‘nobody deserves to die’ it’s innapropriate to put that forward like it was some sort of indesputable fact. For my two cents worth I would agree that in my opinion I can’t think of too many situations where someone would ‘deserve’ to die. On the other hand I genuinely believe that last week ends carnage was no great loss. A free and just society will not miss all three adults involved in the fatal crash. The child, whilst innocent had the odds stacked against them in terms of a viable contribution to society. That doesn’t diminish the tradgedy of it though.

I disagree that the circumstances of the three ‘innocent’ victims are irrelevant. Had the driver not been in breach of bail conditions then the three would not have been there – so the criminality is directly relevant.

In the end, no matter how hard you try, it’s simply not possible to lose sleep over this issue.

Skyes mum on TV was not very convincing. She sounded like a liar. I also have a theory that anyone with tatts like her comes from Boganvillia.

I wish we could place all Bogans on a spaceship with hairdressers and telephone handpiece cleaners and send them away. Yes I would press the launch button.

imhotep said :

bigfeet said :

To the poster “One”

Can you please have someone who speaks English read your posts before you hit the POST button. I have read all of your posts and they are incoherent.

Incorrect bigfeet. One’s posts might look like random words, but in fact it is a code that I saw in a movie once. If you take the first letter of every word, mix well in a dry Martini glass (shake, don’t stir) the code reveals comprehensible phrases, amongst which are PARANOID RANT.

Something you saw once made such a mark that – somehow it comes back up today – perhaps many year later?

Code? so what else do you see in the coloured dots my lord?

Never knowing that perhaps if you watched a movie “two times” then you MAY gain more understanding of the directors intent – however I doubt it given your reflective remarks

After reading the many posts here, I must say that I am nothing but absolutely disgusted by the attitudes of some posters here, more than usual.

Nobody deserves to die. How many times does that have to be beaten into thick heads?

Mr Oppelaar’s criminal history is irrelevant to this tragedy. I think it’s only the irresponsibility of some that has seen that information come to light. His wife’s history is also of no consequence.

Skyye Webb did something stupid at 18. Who didn’t? And believe it or not, the stupid thing she did is pretty easy to get into, pretty hard to get out of. It is not her mothers fault. Are people seriously suggesting that her mother, who at the present time is only guilty of having body ink (like many women, from all socioeconomic backgrounds) control who their 18 year old goes out with? What is this? The Victorian Era?

What has emerged from this horrible tragedy, selfishly and with no regard for innocent lives lost and changed forever, is an underlying sentiment by a moronic few that their lives are somehow worth more than others. The people who bear this sentiment’s place in society is questionable. This society is based on a principle that all human life is equal and that the capability to think otherwise can only come from the criminally sociopath. Some people on here need to take a good long hard look at themselves.

bigfeet said :

To the poster “One”

Can you please have someone who speaks English read your posts before you hit the POST button. I have read all of your posts and they are incoherent.

Incorrect bigfeet. One’s posts might look like random words, but in fact it is a code that I saw in a movie once. If you take the first letter of every word, mix well in a dry Martini glass (shake, don’t stir) the code reveals comprehensible phrases, amongst which are PARANOID RANT.

Thoroughly Smashed said :

Some generous soul has left bottles and cans of bourbon.

Well maybe that solves the abandoned beer conundrum, perhaps a bogan crashed his BMX into the pole and his mates left it there as a memorial of ‘that time bazza got shit-faced and rode into a pole’

Out of respect for their fallen bogan mate it remained untouched and lets face it, no-one but a bogan would drink VB

One said :

In the real world – people secure their investments

Oh look a law to leave the factory gates open while operating right next door to a day care center, must be the fault of a TRESSPASSER if it blow up or some kid gets run over eh

In any case it never has ANYTHING to do with the toxic waste exibits of the human race – many of whom like to post replies.

🙂

rottweiler said :

One said :

rottweiler said :

One said :

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

Sorry but we as registered operators shouldn’t need to secure our automotive transport to the hilts to avoid some low life crim who wants to get his rocks off and steal it. Any one that owns a car, bike, anything for that matter has worked hard to get it, The BLAME lies solely with the person(a CRIMINAL) who took something that wasn’t theirs in this case a car.

No need to be sorry. You should be made to clean up your litter, make it safe, etc – I hope you dont think just the rego covers the cost to society.

But yeah – I know where your coming from eh – fact is the Police use any excuse to not look for stolden cars reported missing by someone like Mr Williams.

And they hold the magic ‘race’ card on laying criminal charges against an idiot who left the car Un-Attended and inproperly securied.

Then again if you are Drunk and a Minister – have no fear the courts will let you off with a statement of meritt for membership in a political party that accepts secret donations from grog execs.

Every one knows it takes less than 10 seconds to un-lock a car – less for the Government to buck pass

OH PLEASE wake up to yourself
SO are you saying that the owner of the stolen mazda should cop a $1000 fine for having his car stolen?.
MY rego covers MY RIGHT to drive on Australia roads and my TAXES cover costs to society.

As said before I work dam hard supporting my 2 children on my own and my car may not be worth alot but it’s always locked when not being driven. 20 years when I was going up people could leave there cars unlocked, children could play in the street,hell even the front door open without fear of some low life stealing the car for a bit of fun ETC.
Therefore I do not believe we should be punishing VICTIMS by fining or holding them responsible for the actions of CRIMINALS. The police’s job is protect society from CRIMINALS and it’s justice systems job to punish them which is clearly failing epically.
And for all the justin williams come try steal my car as you meet the end of a bat with the wraith of one pissed off women, and yes I am fully aware I myself would be breaking the law but protecting my hard earned property against low life CRIMINALS is worth it even if it only stops one.

Nice to see you have Kids, hope they know that you came from a bunch of criminals who also dumped toxic waste simply because no one live there at the time…

“20 years when I was going up people could leave there cars unlocked”

20 years ago the USA could also dump toxic junk into orbit right above your kids heads – wana jump up and down to stop that eh?

Secure your Car!

If you can afford costs of housing a bit of metal while pumping out 2.4 kids – then you can afford the SECURITY cost which your life is attempting to pass onto others; like me who have to suffer from being assulted by wonders like your selves – and thats before you say – oh sorry I got the wrong person…. Well thats if your smart enough to tell the differance between the hate in your mind and real life.

In the real world – people secure their investments

I’m feeling very upset by the comments on either side of the fence regarding the crash in Canberra which I cannot stop thinking about because I go there everyday – it is MY backyard en route as I’m sure for most!

I have feelings for those angry about it to the point where they wish BAD on the “soul” of the transgressor and I have feelings for the police that chased and mostly I have feelings for the family of the one person who survived! Mostly for her because she has survived and thank goodness she has and thank her family for standing by her.

WE Canberrans who love SUPERNATS and AMERICAN movies WITH CAR CHASES – how can any of you blame anyone for what transpired! On one hand you love car chases but on the other not if it kills a family. Do you REALLY BELIEVE This Young MAN wanted and PLANNED to KILL a family friend or not ?!!!!
If the police have no blame why do the chasers HIDE like criminals after the fact???

I don’t blame the police just like i don’t blame JUSTIN MULLY WILLIAMS

I hope for a tolerant INTELLIGENT local SOCIETY to protect OUR CHILDREN

#351 I mean who could be bothered writing all that, we all know Williams was in the wrong!

Pretty classy photo of the “memorial” in CT. Some generous soul has left bottles and cans of bourbon.

#351 – that post has to be a troll, surely.

willo said :

the following post just appeared on the tool’s memorial page
it was posted by someone known as “Bo Gann”

Bo Gann
As a friend of Mully’s, I can tell you that you guys don’t know shit and are being very disrespectful.
You have no idea about him or his background. He was a top bloke, and you did not see how the Police have victimised him all through his life for no reason at all.
I remember when we were 7 years old and the cops took him home to his parents just because we stole a bag of Caramello Koalas from Tuckerbag! We were just seven, mate — why were they being so hateful to seven year olds?! It’s not his fault he liked Caramello Koalas so much. They shoulda been out solving real crimes…. See More
Then when we were 12, we wagged school one day, and the cops took down our names and addresses just because Mully pissed on a homeless guy and a dog. He had to take a piss! What, he should have held it in?! We’ve all made mistakes in our lives, ya know.
When we were 15, Mully and I got sexy with a girl at a party who had passed out from too many cones. When she woke up, she called the Police and we got arrested. They reckon we were getting sexy without her consent, but that’s bullshit. She didn’t say we couldn’t get sexy with her either, so what a fucking joke that was. Mully was always a bit quiet in those days, and he didn’t have the courage to ask to get sexy. That’s not his fault…it’s just the way he was. He had ADD, you know.
When we were 18, we got arrested AGAIN. We had been lighting kittens on fire and Mully’s dog accidentally walked past and got set on fire too. We were driving the dog to the vet and the pigs pulled us over, and Mully got arrested because he had a kilo of speed in his glovebox. How fucking low is that? We were trying to get this poor dog some help, and all the fucking pigs could do was whinge about the speed.
Even a couple of years ago, he got done for ‘dangerous driving’ when he backed over the neighbour’s kid. The kid only ended up with a broken arm and collar bone, but they made it out like he had bloody killed him or something. It’s not like it was Mully’s fault anyway…he just never liked to turn his head when he was reversing. Some people do, but Mully didn’t. How is that his fault? It was probably ADD or some shit.
And then when he got in that coma last year, they had the nerve to charge him again! He was in a fucking coma! How disrespectful ay? The pigs were going off their rockers about him stealing a car and crashing it, but they never once paid attention to the fact that Mully got hurt and ended up with a bit of brain damage. Didn’t they have anything better to do with their time than harass a brain-damaged coma victim just because he stole a car and crashed it?
You’re not human if you haven’t made mistakes. We all get fucking off our heads sometimes and light a basket of kittens on fire. You’re not human if you haven’t. We all steal cars every now and again by accident. It’s just the way we are as people. Sometimes we get forgetful and leave a kilo of speed in the glovebox. Humans do that, you know? Sometimes we just forget. And who hasn’t gotten sexy with a passed-out girl at a party? It’s human nature.
We all make mistakes like this, and it’s unfair for you to judge Mully for shit like this, when it’s clear the pigs had it in for him from day one!

ROFL very hard. That is fantastic! Poor Mully – he was just so hard done by.

willo said :

the following post just appeared on the tool’s memorial page
it was posted by someone known as “Bo Gann”

Bo Gann… etc

Is that post a rev up or what???

How many times is The Canberra Times going to incorrectly report the other car as a Mazda 3? It’s clearly a 323 Astina.

All is not lost. The good news, apart from the young woman’s expected recovery, is the report [CT I think] that Williams’ older brother had got stuck into him about his irresponsible behaviour. To no avail of course, but perhaps there might be some hope out there afterall.

Having said that, here’s another shocker – from today’s SMH –

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/killer-driver-was-drunk-on-drugs-and-unlicensed-20100326-r32b.html

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/killer-driver-was-drunk-on-drugs-and-unlicensed-20100326-r32b.html

“The Police are to blame, they didn’t apprehend this guy by not chasing him…”

Wouldn’t believe what the newspapers print, what they don’t know they make up, a bunch of paricites after blood, blood sucking leeches!

the following post just appeared on the tool’s memorial page
it was posted by someone known as “Bo Gann”

Bo Gann
As a friend of Mully’s, I can tell you that you guys don’t know shit and are being very disrespectful.
You have no idea about him or his background. He was a top bloke, and you did not see how the Police have victimised him all through his life for no reason at all.
I remember when we were 7 years old and the cops took him home to his parents just because we stole a bag of Caramello Koalas from Tuckerbag! We were just seven, mate — why were they being so hateful to seven year olds?! It’s not his fault he liked Caramello Koalas so much. They shoulda been out solving real crimes…. See More
Then when we were 12, we wagged school one day, and the cops took down our names and addresses just because Mully pissed on a homeless guy and a dog. He had to take a piss! What, he should have held it in?! We’ve all made mistakes in our lives, ya know.
When we were 15, Mully and I got sexy with a girl at a party who had passed out from too many cones. When she woke up, she called the Police and we got arrested. They reckon we were getting sexy without her consent, but that’s bullshit. She didn’t say we couldn’t get sexy with her either, so what a fucking joke that was. Mully was always a bit quiet in those days, and he didn’t have the courage to ask to get sexy. That’s not his fault…it’s just the way he was. He had ADD, you know.
When we were 18, we got arrested AGAIN. We had been lighting kittens on fire and Mully’s dog accidentally walked past and got set on fire too. We were driving the dog to the vet and the pigs pulled us over, and Mully got arrested because he had a kilo of speed in his glovebox. How fucking low is that? We were trying to get this poor dog some help, and all the fucking pigs could do was whinge about the speed.
Even a couple of years ago, he got done for ‘dangerous driving’ when he backed over the neighbour’s kid. The kid only ended up with a broken arm and collar bone, but they made it out like he had bloody killed him or something. It’s not like it was Mully’s fault anyway…he just never liked to turn his head when he was reversing. Some people do, but Mully didn’t. How is that his fault? It was probably ADD or some shit.
And then when he got in that coma last year, they had the nerve to charge him again! He was in a fucking coma! How disrespectful ay? The pigs were going off their rockers about him stealing a car and crashing it, but they never once paid attention to the fact that Mully got hurt and ended up with a bit of brain damage. Didn’t they have anything better to do with their time than harass a brain-damaged coma victim just because he stole a car and crashed it?
You’re not human if you haven’t made mistakes. We all get fucking off our heads sometimes and light a basket of kittens on fire. You’re not human if you haven’t. We all steal cars every now and again by accident. It’s just the way we are as people. Sometimes we get forgetful and leave a kilo of speed in the glovebox. Humans do that, you know? Sometimes we just forget. And who hasn’t gotten sexy with a passed-out girl at a party? It’s human nature.
We all make mistakes like this, and it’s unfair for you to judge Mully for shit like this, when it’s clear the pigs had it in for him from day one!

This thread has got incredibly boring!

So many solutions offered, so many opinions tendered, still no result!

I guess we’ll just hear the same anger when it happens again!

Hopefully next time it’ll be an act perpetrated by a member of a distinctively ethnic or racial group. It’s so much easier for people to demonise someone they can’t relate to culturally. John Howard made a career out of it.

This debate is very interesting as there are so many comments from people who are so disturbed by a product of their own society!

To quote artist Max Grundy: “Fear Is The New Beauty!”

From Wikipedia:
“As farmers tilled the land and migrants headed west through the Great Plains their horses became subject to theft. Since these farmers and migrants depended on their horses, horse thieves garnered a particularly pernicious reputation because they left their victims helpless or greatly handicapped by the loss of their horses. The victims needed their horses for transportation and farming. Such depredation led to the use of the term horse thief as an insult, one that conveys the impression of the insulted person as one lacking any shred of moral decency”.

Bugger the PC out there.

Anyone who takes away my ability to work, provide for my family or otherwise causes me to suffer the basic rights we as Australians worked hard for and enjoy today deserves to pay for their crime.

It was good policy to hang horse thieves in the 19th century. It would be good policy to re-introduce capital punishment for similar and worse offences committed today.

$3 kay? meh

If only Skye looked like http://tinyurl.com/ydnjp9y and not like http://tinyurl.com/ya5g8c7 she would be worth $200,000 to Womans Weekly

if it was my child in a coma in hospital i couldn’t think of anything worse to do than make money off the situation and sell her story to the highest bidder AND if i did( which i wouldn’t) surely i’d hang out for more than a mere $3000! lol
disgraceful – shame on u bogans.

sloppery said :

Jim Jones said :

PBO said :

The ultimate irony would be his hearse being stolen on monday by one of his mates.

… and crashing it.

…into one of his other dickhead mates.

It’s what he would have wanted

Pommy bastard said :

Maybe they’ll buy her a car with it.

Nah, why buy one, the bogan way is to steal them.

Special G said :

$3k – Hope TCH tells 60 minutes to bugger off. She can sell her story to the tabloids when she gets out. She’ll cry some sob story about how she didn’t know the car was stolen, Mully was a real top bloke etc.. Load of crap and we all know it.

Yes and one would imagine that Ms Webbe’s wholesome upbringing will be the focus of the story. I can see it now “Good girl lead astray”….Shame the past 5 years of her life have been anything but wholesome..

Do feel free to list your address and car rego WMC and I’ll arrange to have your car stolen for you so you experience that “minor inconvenience” for yourself.

Between the keyless entry, engine immobiliser, card-activated ignition and being locked in a garage, I’d love to see you try. Whatsa matta, moit, some carnt flog ya VN? Maybe next time get a real insurance policy that covers you for a hire car. While you’re riding you little sister’s BMX, think about how many stolen cars were safely recovered in the incident under discussion. I bet even you can count that high.

Special G said :

$3k – Hope TCH tells 60 minutes to bugger off. She can sell her story to the tabloids when she gets out. She’ll cry some sob story about how she didn’t know the car was stolen, Mully was a real top bloke etc.. Load of crap and we all know it.

And people will make excuses for her, because she’s young. At that age, I sure as hell knew better than to get into a stolen car with a known crim who was 6 years older than me.

Her mother has a lot to answer for.

$3k – Hope TCH tells 60 minutes to bugger off. She can sell her story to the tabloids when she gets out. She’ll cry some sob story about how she didn’t know the car was stolen, Mully was a real top bloke etc.. Load of crap and we all know it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTDRWaV60Zc

OpenYourMind said :

We can’t bring back any of the dead, but we can do some soul searching and think about how to reduce the occurrence of such incidents in the future.

Reducing the numbers of innocents hurt in these sorts of incidents is a good thing, reducing the numbers of Mullys’ killed, not so good.

Ian said :

I see from todays Canberra Times that Skye Webbe’s family has been paid $3k for an interview by her hospital bed with 60 Minutes. More class on show!

Maybe they’ll buy her a car with it.

Ian said :

I see from todays Canberra Times that Skye Webbe’s family has been paid $3k for an interview by her hospital bed with 60 Minutes. More class on show!

$3k to be made to look like that on telly. Is there a slim possibility this family could have bogan connections?

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/02/Luck.jpg

I see from todays Canberra Times that Skye Webbe’s family has been paid $3k for an interview by her hospital bed with 60 Minutes. More class on show!

Jim Jones said :

PBO said :

The ultimate irony would be his hearse being stolen on monday by one of his mates.

… and crashing it.

…into one of his other dickhead mates.

PBO said :

The ultimate irony would be his hearse being stolen on monday by one of his mates.

… and crashing it.

The ultimate irony would be his hearse being stolen on monday by one of his mates.

Interesting, PBO. You question why this thread is continuing yet you add to its growth by a further post.

Not that I deny your right to post, but surely a thread dies when the last post is added … there’s always someone who wants to have the last word – maybe it will be me 😉

willo said :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA8gJoT5yl4

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

OpenYourMind said :

PBO, I think this thread is still going because this story is about much more than a big tragic crash. This is about the validity of police chases, how a system has allowed a person to be in a position to commit these crimes over and over and among other things it’s about the complete contempt for authority held by Williams and his ilk.

We can’t bring back any of the dead, but we can do some soul searching and think about how to reduce the occurrence of such incidents in the future.

Cry me a river-er
(Go on and just)
Cry me a river
(Baby go on and just)
Cry me a river-er, yea yea

Meh with your soulsearching, whilst I am happy that the line of intergenerational boganism has been somewhat interrupted in Queanbeyan, it is a terrible shame that he had to take a family with him to achieve that. I also feel for the young girl who woke from her coma, she will live with this forever.

Mully Williams is not a hero, he was just a bogan with a short life expectancy who proved the law of averages right. Whilst there are many sides to this story, Occams Razor tells us that the simplest, most straight forward reason is generally the correct.

He was an accident waiting to happen.

HAEL – T6RX said :

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/crash-victim-faced-car-theft-charges/1784630.aspx

You really need to read this, the cops actually did a great job in cleaning up Canberra.

The only innocent one in this was the baby. In this article it referred to Sam Ford being a convicted drug dealer and Scott Oppelaar having the exact same charges as Justin Williams…

So in fact the people who lost their lives that night (Not including an innocent infant) were no better than the one who caused it all

That being said I still feel terrible for the grief their families are going through. Hypocritical, I know, but I’m still sitting on the fence when it comes to actually thinking about the grief all affected are going through… Including the poor cops who were just trying to get a maniac off the roads!

Hypocritical is an understatement. I’d suggest that ‘kangaroo court juror’ might be a much better description of you.

While I concede that Oppelaar/Ford were scumbags from the evidence we have seen, both you and the Canberra Times for publishing such a totally irrelevant article to these circumstances, are guilty of ghoulish opportunism.

I can understand some lazy hack at the Times deciding that this is an opportunity to score an easy win and get an article published, but your post is tantamount to condoning capital punishment. You seem to be condoning the vehicular manslaughter of these two people by Williams.

Whle I have no sadness whatsoever for the death of Williams who brought it on himself, by any reasonable measure, Opellaar, Ford and Brody were innocent victims in the wrong place at the wrong time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA8gJoT5yl4

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/crash-victim-faced-car-theft-charges/1784630.aspx

You really need to read this, the cops actually did a great job in cleaning up Canberra.

The only innocent one in this was the baby. In this article it referred to Sam Ford being a convicted drug dealer and Scott Oppelaar having the exact same charges as Justin Williams…

So in fact the people who lost their lives that night (Not including an innocent infant) were no better than the one who caused it all

That being said I still feel terrible for the grief their families are going through. Hypocritical, I know, but I’m still sitting on the fence when it comes to actually thinking about the grief all affected are going through… Including the poor cops who were just trying to get a maniac off the roads!

Snarky said :

… And now the bogan farewell at the Canberra Ave and Monaro Highway overpass.

Can’t decide whether to be annoyed at the charmless vandalism or amused at the thought that an ugly black scrawl over a couple of sub-literate signatures on a piece of industrial equipment where no-one’d ever stop to contemplate his memory is actually entirely appropriate for a wasted life.

Someone also put “RIP Mully” on the traffic sign near the TAFE as you go eastbound on Canberra Ave….

PBO, I think this thread is still going because this story is about much more than a big tragic crash. This is about the validity of police chases, how a system has allowed a person to be in a position to commit these crimes over and over and among other things it’s about the complete contempt for authority held by Williams and his ilk.

We can’t bring back any of the dead, but we can do some soul searching and think about how to reduce the occurrence of such incidents in the future.

Are “bogons” known for their terrible poetry too?

… And now the bogan farewell at the Canberra Ave and Monaro Highway overpass.

Can’t decide whether to be annoyed at the charmless vandalism or amused at the thought that an ugly black scrawl over a couple of sub-literate signatures on a piece of industrial equipment where no-one’d ever stop to contemplate his memory is actually entirely appropriate for a wasted life.

Add me to the list Thumper and to those like Woody Mann Caruso who think having a car stolen means little more than submitting an insurance claim then you can think again – at the time it caused a hell of a problem for me. Do feel free to list your address and car rego WMC and I’ll arrange to have your car stolen for you so you experience that “minor inconvenience” for yourself.

With talk in this thread, one would think that Mully is coming back from the dead.

Lock up your cars ppl, or the ghost of Mully will steal it.

Honestly, why is this thread still going? He was in the wrong and now he is dead and he took innocent people with him, end of story.

According to one of the many threads in the following link the scumbag was arrested at SkyFire just hours before the accident. He was placed in custody but apparently 20 or so of his bogon mates managed to break him out …..

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&gid=102146536492645#!/pages/Justin-Williams-RIP-Natural-Selection-is-grand/111968502150750?ref=mf

I’ve had my car stolen once. Unfortunately it was found the next morning with a broken window, stripped ignition and flat tyres. I would have much preferred they set it oon fire somewhere…

Thumper wrote – Just out of interest, how many people here have had a car stolen. For one, I have.

I haven’t but my sister has. I take security precautions with my old car, which I guess we all should do. But if some dero wants to steal a car they’ll find a way no matter what.

Pommy bastard said :

Im a country member said :

Hey Pommy Bastar[sic], was I referring to you personally? Did I hit a raw nerve?

Not at all what you did was come up with an unsubstantiated slur, against people (unnamed) posting here, who you claim are; “So many people posting here are from exactly the same mind set as Williams”.

Could you point out, using your supernatural powers of deduction, which of us qualify as ” so regularly on the Kings Higway[sic] either over taking on a blind corner or running me off the road as they travel at unfathomable speeds”

Or should we just take it that your slur against persons unspecified who are of the same mindset as Williams (ie. brainless moronic unthinking thugs, with scant care for the safety of those, disrespect for the lawn and society etc.) or shall we just take it that you pulled that accusation out of the place where the sun doesn’t shine?

I’ve changed my changed my mind; I did mean you! You’re a pom too, so no one cares either!

Just out of interest, how many people here have had a car stolen.

For one, I have.

Never – but I have had 3 cars broken into when they were locked and parked in a well lit public car park. Fortunately for me the crim’s were just looking to steal my parking change.

I think you are suggesting, Thumper (apologies for poetic license) that it was beyond your control as you had taken appropriate precautions. +1 to that

Im a country member said :

Hey Pommy Bastar[sic], was I referring to you personally? Did I hit a raw nerve?

Not at all what you did was come up with an unsubstantiated slur, against people (unnamed) posting here, who you claim are; “So many people posting here are from exactly the same mind set as Williams”.

Could you point out, using your supernatural powers of deduction, which of us qualify as ” so regularly on the Kings Higway[sic] either over taking on a blind corner or running me off the road as they travel at unfathomable speeds”

Or should we just take it that your slur against persons unspecified who are of the same mindset as Williams (ie. brainless moronic unthinking thugs, with scant care for the safety of those, disrespect for the lawn and society etc.) or shall we just take it that you pulled that accusation out of the place where the sun doesn’t shine?

Well, Thumper, you obviously didn’t secure it well enough and because of your senseless actions you probably put the lives of an innocent bogan car thief in danger. I hope that the police didn’t chase your poorly protected vehicle and cause more carnage. I might dob you in so that you get that $1000 fine you so rightly deserve.

Please, think of the bogans, next time.

Rottweiler +1

Some pretty basic ingredients for good social behaviour – work hard, responsible parenting and kicking the crap out of scrotes whenever needs dictate … go girl!!!!

Im a country member said :

Special G said :

Mr Country member – people ‘speeding’ on a highway and a person deliberately running from Police and going through red lights at 200kph are very different.

For those who haven’t done the maths

200kph = 56m per second.

Take in rection time and he probably didn’t even register that a car had pulled out in front of him.

Are you suggesting that crossing an unbroken line to overtake on a blind corner at 100 + km/h, during busy traffic flow, just because you believe that your time is more important than anyone else’s well being displays any more regard for human life than that displayed by Williams?

It’s typically sociopathic behaviour that frequently occasions death! Whether you have a license or not, own the vehicle or not, have tattoos or not, have a job or not, identify as a Bogan or not, the final result is the same; death occasioned through mindless disregard for humanity at the hands of someone who regards themself as being above the law!

It’s disappointing to read such an illogical conclusion from someone with your impressive academic/professional pedigree. To suggest that people driving recklessly are cast fom the same mould as a recidivist, who has stated his total disregard for the law and law abiding people, is a little over the top.

Perhaps you should troll back through this thread and go to the links, to Williams’s musings, provided by many of the contributors. Then you will see a truly sociopathic (or to use the now out of favour term ‘psychopathic’) mind at work.

While I agree that the behaviour you have cited is unacceptable I imagine that in many other respects these road idiots are good contributors to society. On the evidence I have read, admittedly it is probably biased, I doubt the same could ever have been said of Williams.

One said :

rottweiler said :

One said :

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

Sorry but we as registered operators shouldn’t need to secure our automotive transport to the hilts to avoid some low life crim who wants to get his rocks off and steal it. Any one that owns a car, bike, anything for that matter has worked hard to get it, The BLAME lies solely with the person(a CRIMINAL) who took something that wasn’t theirs in this case a car.

No need to be sorry. You should be made to clean up your litter, make it safe, etc – I hope you dont think just the rego covers the cost to society.

But yeah – I know where your coming from eh – fact is the Police use any excuse to not look for stolden cars reported missing by someone like Mr Williams.

And they hold the magic ‘race’ card on laying criminal charges against an idiot who left the car Un-Attended and inproperly securied.

Then again if you are Drunk and a Minister – have no fear the courts will let you off with a statement of meritt for membership in a political party that accepts secret donations from grog execs.

Every one knows it takes less than 10 seconds to un-lock a car – less for the Government to buck pass

OH PLEASE wake up to yourself
SO are you saying that the owner of the stolen mazda should cop a $1000 fine for having his car stolen?.
MY rego covers MY RIGHT to drive on Australia roads and my TAXES cover costs to society.

As said before I work dam hard supporting my 2 children on my own and my car may not be worth alot but it’s always locked when not being driven. 20 years when I was going up people could leave there cars unlocked, children could play in the street,hell even the front door open without fear of some low life stealing the car for a bit of fun ETC.
Therefore I do not believe we should be punishing VICTIMS by fining or holding them responsible for the actions of CRIMINALS. The police’s job is protect society from CRIMINALS and it’s justice systems job to punish them which is clearly failing epically.
And for all the justin williams come try steal my car as you meet the end of a bat with the wraith of one pissed off women, and yes I am fully aware I myself would be breaking the law but protecting my hard earned property against low life CRIMINALS is worth it even if it only stops one.

I don’t think anything will change the mentality of theses sort of people…………

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/facebook-airs-car-thiefs-bravado-20100324-qvm1.html

To the Poster known as BigFeet that is an online stalker given its English words – perhaps learning to read English could help your efforts – then again I bet you don’t work for the tourism industry now do you?!?

Anna Key said :

One said :

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

So a variation of “She was asking for it…” And good to see the dragway argument get a run, at least on the FB page. Of course, if we had a dragway, half these idiots wouldn’t be there because either they would not be allowed to race a stolen car, it wouldn’t pass scrutineering/safety requirements, or they wouldn’t want to pay an entrance fee

WTF?!? Perhaps removing child protection reporting in place of grant funding for media campaigns that advertise a right with how-much-can-you-drink-before-you-spew lifestyle ads? What page are the cars ads in?

No – sorry but if the Cops want the excuse of not looking for a single car by saying it was the fault of he owner – then that same rule applies onto all stolden or MISPLACED cars. Unless you can prove it was stolden before the fact?

PS: Incorrect disposal of liabilities and responsbility with the attitude of no-fault-acceptance makes such an act of proven neglect an act of neglect with criminal intent.

Spending the 29.95 for a stearing wheel lock on another VB or XXXX before coming to the-riot and posting hate about PEOPLE THAT GOT CAUGHT? Pricless…

Hey Pommy Bastar, was I referring to you personally? Did I hit a raw nerve?

I did nothing to elevate Williams’ status; I agree that he was scum! I also believe that he should have been incarcerated well prior to this happening. Society had no use for him.

I was just pointing out that when death occasioned by disregard for humanity is the result, the means to that end is irrelevant!

It wasn’t Williams’ intent to kill himself or his victims. He did however act in a wreckless manner by which he displayed total disregard for his or anyone elses life! I agree that such behaviour is tantamount to a heinous crime! It also happens that he subsequently committed a number of other crimes including car theft. Despite this, the worst crime was that which occasioned death!

A motor car is a deadly device. Williams used that deadly device wrecklessly for the purpose of fleeing from the police! If such a deadly device is used in a similarly wreckless manner to get to Bateman’s Bay quicker, as is constantly the case, does it make the driver of that vehicle any less a murderer than Williams, should that driver’s actions occasion unecessary death through blatantly wreckless use of a deadly device!

I was a little concrened that I agreed with some of Andrew Bolts arguments. Fortunately he did go over the top at the end.

Im a country member said :

So many people posting here are from exactly the same mind set as Williams! I witness so many such people so regularly on the Kings Higway either over taking on a blind corner or running me off the road as they travel at unfathomable speeds. The fact that the car belongs to them doesn’t mean that they exercise any greater regard for the welfare of others. Just because they drive late model Holden with V8 Super Car personalised plates or one of those fucking stupid V8
Ford or Holden “sports” Utes pulling a jet ski or even a fucking Maserati, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t “Bogans,” regardless of how distasteful they think tattoos are!

There’s a lot of “cleanskin” trash out there!

Well lacking your amazing ability to categorise and compartmentalise, and gain deep insights into the psyche and upbringing and employment status people who overtake you in the highway, (I must admit that your supernatural powers of observation rival those of Sherlock Holmes)I am flummoxed as to work out how you “know” these are the same persons who are posting here criticising the dead criminal thug Mully Williams?

Could it be that those posting here might just be decent, hardworking, law abiding, people, who are sick to the back teeth of POS like Williams ruining our towns, cities and environment, whilst breeding like rabbits and contributing noting to society but death damage and crime?

Maybe people like me are expressing our complete contempt of those who live the parasite lifestyle off our backs.

Or mayvbe I just haven’;t over taken you on the highgway yet, so you cannot catagorise me.

By the way Justin: Are you likely to be touring the Moody Blues in the near future?

Nights in white saaaatiiiiiiiiin – Love it man!

justin heywood said :

Im a country member said :

….
This debate is a little like two rabid dogs in a cage! A bunch of ignorant morons with a total disregard for humanity are demonising an ignorant moron with total disregard for humanity!………

Some irony in your rant there country. While you characterize those critical of Mully Williams as pretentious rednecks, you go on to be a bit pretentious yourself in telling us (in some detail) how wonderful you are. Then you round the whole thing off by calling Williams a ‘fuckw*t’. Physician, heal thyself.

Aaaah but I am wonderful!

Im a country member said :

….
This debate is a little like two rabid dogs in a cage! A bunch of ignorant morons with a total disregard for humanity are demonising an ignorant moron with total disregard for humanity!………

Some irony in your rant there country. While you characterize those critical of Mully Williams as pretentious rednecks, you go on to be a bit pretentious yourself in telling us (in some detail) how wonderful you are. Then you round the whole thing off by calling Williams a ‘fuckw*t’. Physician, heal thyself.

Special G said :

Mr Country member – people ‘speeding’ on a highway and a person deliberately running from Police and going through red lights at 200kph are very different.

For those who haven’t done the maths

200kph = 56m per second.

Take in rection time and he probably didn’t even register that a car had pulled out in front of him.

Are you suggesting that crossing an unbroken line to overtake on a blind corner at 100 + km/h, during busy traffic flow, just because you believe that your time is more important than anyone else’s well being displays any more regard for human life than that displayed by Williams?

It’s typically sociopathic behaviour that frequently occasions death! Whether you have a license or not, own the vehicle or not, have tattoos or not, have a job or not, identify as a Bogan or not, the final result is the same; death occasioned through mindless disregard for humanity at the hands of someone who regards themself as being above the law!

Mr Country member – people ‘speeding’ on a highway and a person deliberately running from Police and going through red lights at 200kph are very different.

For those who haven’t done the maths

200kph = 56m per second.

Take in rection time and he probably didn’t even register that a car had pulled out in front of him.

although i do agree with most of this report i cant say i agree with calling off police chases after they get the number plate because in this incedent the driver had stolen the car how the hell are they ment to track down the driver. another thing is the driver was a druggo and probably didnt even kno what he was doin the cops should not chase it right from behind but keep at a certain distance with out their lights on and follow the car not chase it cause when a person is so high on drugs as soon as he see’s cop lights their just gonna trip out and run caus they dont care about their safety nor the afety of others

Im a country member
+ 1

I blame the person that allowed their heroically-capable 626 to be stolen. Also, the previous 37 other car owners, in failing to secure their vehicles, are clearly complicit this man’s criminal past and should feel somewhat responsible for the events on Saturday night.

There’s an awful lot of credence given to the ultra right-wing ramblings of Andrew Bolt here! I had no idea that the ACT was a facist state (or territory)!

Bolt is a class conscious moron hack who just churns our popularist demonising shite in between kissing the right arses whilst waiting in the wings for Alan Jones’ gig!

I love the debate that this incident has spawned! So much myopic ignorance demonising the myopically ignorant. This is a landmark incident; there’s no racial group to vilify, just white trash that has been thrust from the loins of ignorance in much the same way as those who sully the internet with equally ignorant stereotyping, judgmental rage and self loathing that’s almost reminiscent of gay bashing by closeted gays!

Once we’ve got to the point at which the debate relies on the kind of cultural pigeon holeing that Mr Bolt (AKA Nut) relies upon, it’s time to pick a new subject.

Does the number of tattoos on the arms of Mully “Fuckwit” Williams, his family, his girlfriend’s mother or his Ice dealer really make any difference – no, none at all!

I was physically born and raised on a housing comission estate. My arms are covered with tattoos which I personally hold in the same regard as artworks by some of australia’s most renowned artists, which I also personally own. I have 3 post graduate degrees and lecture at some of Australia’s most elite universities. I am a broadcaster on a national level and a publised author (go on check my spelling – I know its shite)! The people from whence I hail and whom still reside there are some of the finest people I know and I’m proud to have been part of that society!

Mr Williams was a fuckwit and thankfully he’s now a dead fuckwit! Fuckwits transcend class and society. Sociopathy generally results in a disregard for human life; in the case of Williams, the empowerment came from the only avenue available due to his dire lack of education and resources – a motor car, a dealy machine! Educated and wealthy sociopaths have equal disregard for human life. Their avenues of empowerment include wealth, position and very often a long suffering trophy spouse!

This debate is a little like two rabid dogs in a cage! A bunch of ignorant morons with a total disregard for humanity are demonising an ignorant moron with total disregard for humanity!

So many people posting here are from exactly the same mind set as Williams! I witness so many such people so regularly on the Kings Higway either over taking on a blind corner or running me off the road as they travel at unfathomable speeds. The fact that the car belongs to them doesn’t mean that they exercise any greater regard for the welfare of others. Just because they drive late model Holden with V8 Super Car personalised plates or one of those fucking stupid V8
Ford or Holden “sports” Utes pulling a jet ski or even a fucking Maserati, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t “Bogans,” regardless of how distasteful they think tattoos are!

There’s a lot of “cleanskin” trash out there!

motleychick said :

Xanthomyza said :

I thought this piece was interesting. Apologies if this was posted previously.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/blame-game-is-a-cop-out/story-e6frfhqf-1225844471299

Brilliant read. Best thing about this whole situation that I read so far.

I’m quite surprised that after 6 pages of comments family and friends of the deceased are not online responding to this thread. But then again, they are probably illiterate like Mully.

The writer should be given an award, he managed to hit the nail on the head with precision.

Reply

The criminal sub-culture revealed in this atrocity is an affront to all of us from less than promising backgrounds who have managed to keep out of trouble. What really gets my goat is not the upset sensibilities of the broader, reasonably well-off Canberra-Queanbeyan community who can easily distance themselves, but that the grubs we have seen in this disgraceful saga would have been making life even more difficult for the poor bastards doing it tough and trying to do the right thing (how many here have known what it’s like being poor, powerless and cowered by the neighbourhood thug network?). And it’s not helped by opportunist conservatives affecting an affinity with the ‘battlers’ and crapping on about ‘freedom of choice’, Big Brother and whatever or blaming governments for everything from speed camera revenues to the botched work of private sector shonks and rip-off merchants.

Following this for days and viewed many media stories. Heard the word on the street.

Thought it would be great for some documentary maker to release a story about an insiders perspective about the seedy underbelly of Boganism in Canberra. However I stopped dead in my tracks!

Who would write it?

One said :

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

So a variation of “She was asking for it…” And good to see the dragway argument get a run, at least on the FB page. Of course, if we had a dragway, half these idiots wouldn’t be there because either they would not be allowed to race a stolen car, it wouldn’t pass scrutineering/safety requirements, or they wouldn’t want to pay an entrance fee

Thoroughly Smashed said :

The world’s about to end, I think I just agreed with Andrew Bolt.

Well some of it anyway. He gets pretty frothy as usual towards the end.

Pommy bastard said :

Xanthomyza said :

I thought this piece was interesting. Apologies if this was posted previously.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/blame-game-is-a-cop-out/story-e6frfhqf-1225844471299

Can we get an AMEN! that at least some in the press are on the side of the angels, and are not making this into a “police chase/blame the cops/poor victim Williams” crap!

The world’s about to end, I think I just agreed with Andrew Bolt.

Now that it has come to light that Mr Oppelaar was on bail for car theft and smashing up Ms Fords car. He most likely:
a – didn’t have a licence
b – was disqualified if he did have one
c – had bail conditions not to drive
d – was breaching bail conditions not to contact her anyway. (she would have known this)

Which basically says – he was doing something wrong and shouldn’t have been there in the first place and basically showed as much contempt for the law as Justin Williams.

The innocent ones are the baby and the emergency services people who have to live with the visions of the aftermath.

Andrew Bolt’s piece is right on in criticising those who want to blame the police instead of the perpertrator. However it is a bit rich of him to blame everyone else he can think of including schools and welfare officials, the courts, the government and ‘all of us’

‘After them, I blame the schools and welfare officials for not grabbing Williams when he was young and already dangerous, and trying to make him straight, rather than turn him loose on our streets’.

To the poster “One”

Can you please have someone who speaks English read your posts before you hit the POST button. I have read all of your posts and they are incoherent.

What is it that you are trying to say?

it makes me angry that because the victims had a criminal past, they are being hounded, even after death. Wouldn’t even be an issue if they were public servants! It shouldn’t matter what background they had, they didn’t deserve to die in that way.

given my experience with the AFP when my motorbike was stolen I’m surprised that anybody in the ACT gets caught stealing vehicles unless they drive through the front door of the police station in said stolen vehicle

Xanthomyza said :

I thought this piece was interesting. Apologies if this was posted previously.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/blame-game-is-a-cop-out/story-e6frfhqf-1225844471299

Brilliant read. Best thing about this whole situation that I read so far.

I’m quite surprised that after 6 pages of comments family and friends of the deceased are not online responding to this thread. But then again, they are probably illiterate like Mully.

threeze said :

shellcase said :

How do you prevent car theft? One way might be to make it compulsory for all owners of older cars to buy and fit steering locks, ignition cutouts etc. Proof of purchase to be supplied at the next rego renewal or no rego renewal.

An owner who fails to secure their car and has it stolen then cops a stiff fine, say, a mandatory $1,000.00 or their car is impounded for six months. Make it stiff, make it stick.

Well, let’s say I owned a 20 year old sports car that was fitted with alarm, immobiliser and was locked in a secure garage. How much of I fine should I cop when the car is stolen after my house is robbed and the thieves find my spare keys hidden in the back of a kitchen drawer?

+1 for threeze

The wailing you hear after the thud, is the baby following the bath water. This is the ultimate admission that crime prevention is failing, so let’s punish the victim … Much easier as they are probably a law abiding citizen and after copping a $1,000 fine, for what may have been an absent minded mistake, they will pay it and probably be rehabilitated for life and never reoffend. +1 for the justice system, +1 for the coffers … everybody wins. Oh wait, the scrote who stole the car has got off scot free. Never mind at least we’ve removed the temptation for him to stealone individual’s car ever again.

I love Andrew Bolt’s opinion on the whole matter.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/i-blame-the-feral-driver-justin-williams-for-the-fatal-crash/story-e6frezz0-1225844452079

rottweiler said :

One said :

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

Sorry but we as registered operators shouldn’t need to secure our automotive transport to the hilts to avoid some low life crim who wants to get his rocks off and steal it. Any one that owns a car, bike, anything for that matter has worked hard to get it, The BLAME lies solely with the person(a CRIMINAL) who took something that wasn’t theirs in this case a car.

No need to be sorry. You should be made to clean up your litter, make it safe, etc – I hope you dont think just the rego covers the cost to society.

But yeah – I know where your coming from eh – fact is the Police use any excuse to not look for stolden cars reported missing by someone like Mr Williams.

And they hold the magic ‘race’ card on laying criminal charges against an idiot who left the car Un-Attended and inproperly securied.

Then again if you are Drunk and a Minister – have no fear the courts will let you off with a statement of meritt for membership in a political party that accepts secret donations from grog execs.

Every one knows it takes less than 10 seconds to un-lock a car – less for the Government to buck pass

shellcase said :

How do you prevent car theft? One way might be to make it compulsory for all owners of older cars to buy and fit steering locks, ignition cutouts etc. Proof of purchase to be supplied at the next rego renewal or no rego renewal.

An owner who fails to secure their car and has it stolen then cops a stiff fine, say, a mandatory $1,000.00 or their car is impounded for six months. Make it stiff, make it stick.

Well, let’s say I owned a 20 year old sports car that was fitted with alarm, immobiliser and was locked in a secure garage. How much of I fine should I cop when the car is stolen after my house is robbed and the thieves find my spare keys hidden in the back of a kitchen drawer?

So, when do nominations for the Darwin Awards open? I know who’s getting my vote for this year.

Xanthomyza said :

I thought this piece was interesting. Apologies if this was posted previously.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/blame-game-is-a-cop-out/story-e6frfhqf-1225844471299

Can we get an AMEN! that at least some in the press are on the side of the angels, and are not making this into a “police chase/blame the cops/poor victim Williams” crap!

DavoDavo said :

If one car was to crash head on into an immovable object it would be a crash at 100km/h and the energy dissipated would be half of two cars colliding head on at 100km/h each.

Sure, there’s twice as much energy lost in total because twice as many cars crashed. The energy lost per car is the same as if a single car had hit a wall at 100km/h. So, two cars crashing head-on at the same speed means each car experiences the same forces as one car crashing into something solid at that speed experiences.

There’s plenty of ways – if you change the situation to change the forces – to wrangle 200kmh into it: Maybe the car doing 200kmh runs into a MOVABLE object of the same physical properties as it. EG, one car doing 200km/h hits one doing 0kmh, so they BOTH ended up travelling at 100kmh after the crash .. but then you could also say it’s like a 300km/h crash where the other car was doing 100kmh in the same direction! Or it’s just like a 5000kmh crash into the world’s biggest marshmallow.

The real problem is that you said speed when the real issue is force.

It’s why drivers of new cars can walk away from 60kmh crashes sore and bruised, while someone in a 1960’s car could possibly die at speeds as low as 40kmh: The safety devices in new cars lower the forces acting on the driver during the crash.

(PS: It’s actually high school physics, not PhD. Maybe TAFE or Uni – but only if you needed to catch up cause you didn’t do science in yr 11/12.)

Aurelius said :

RiotACT doesn’t fall into that trap. So refreshing. You all seem to hate everyone who isn’t you. Why is that?

As is often the case with those who claim the moral high ground you have committed an over generalisation. I, for one, do not hate everyone who isn’t me. While it would certainly save time, in that I would not have to assess the merit of befriending or otherwise new acquaintances, it would certainly make for a lonely existence.

I think you will find that most posters in here have not promoted a hatred of Williams per se, but rather a hatred for the type of person he has become – a person, who by his own utterings, has no respect for the law and ordinary law abiding citizens. These type of people I definitely hate.

Live and let live is such an easy tenet to follow, but unfortunately the likes of Williams follow their own misanthropic tenet of I’ll live how I want to live and woe betide anyone who gets in my way. So forgive my utter selfishness in displaying nothing but contempt for him and others of the same ilk.

no, there’s more i suspect

Can we know the secrets now?

jessieduck said :

I’m really disappointed in the media for highlighting Sam and Scott’s past with statements like “Both Mr Oppelaar and Ms Ford had battled addictions and both had criminal records, mostly on drug charges.” in today’s SMH.

This couple may have had a rough past but FFS- they were not doing anything wrong on the night they died and their 3 month old baby certainly didn’t have a criminal or drug history.

It’s really low.

This story just gets sadder and sadder. What a mess. I feel so sorry for the police who were only doing their jobs.

My thoughts exactly. They may have done the wrong thing in the past but they were on the road simply to visit Brody’s grandpa – they were doing nothing wrong and don’t deserve this. They were innocent victims who deserve to rest in peace.

I thought this piece was interesting. Apologies if this was posted previously.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/blame-game-is-a-cop-out/story-e6frfhqf-1225844471299

Usually, when a story likes this one is in the media, we get pages and pages of stories about how wonderful the victims were, how they were the best parent, sibling, neighbour.
RiotACT doesn’t fall into that trap. So refreshing. You all seem to hate everyone who isn’t you. Why is that?

Holden Caulfield said :

Given the stories that have since emerged, is RA now in a position to publish the information mentioned above?

I was thinking the same thing?

Quote/amendment from the original article:
“[Ed – theres more to this story than most have heard, we’re sure more will come out in the following days. The RiotACT has heard some rumors about the driver and where he was before the chase, who the occupants of the second car were and what the outcomes of this incident for the police and on certain parts of Canberra community will be. We’ll let you know more when able.]”

Given the stories that have since emerged, is RA now in a position to publish the information mentioned above?

bd84 said :

The one solution is manditory minimum sentencing for failing to stop when directed and engaging in a high speed pursuit. There is absolutely NO excuse for speeding off and the penaties should reflect this. Manditory 5 years for pursuit with no serious injuries and minimum of 25 years for killing an innocent bystander.

Having said that, I am glad the absolute piece of crap driving the stolen car died, I hope the passenger rots inside if they survive. My condolences to the dead family, to the witnesses and police. They should not have to witness such a horror created by an idiot thinking of himself by speeding off, when driving home or doing their job.

Mandatory sentencing is not the same as an appropriate penalty. People doing hard time in inappropriate circumstances makes people into criminals rather than turns problems into people who can live in any sort of harmony in the community. In the current case the other person in the car was not driving and there is no evidence they were urging on the offender or even knew the car was stolen. But don’t let me stand in the way of a good old fashioned lynching. As for the driver only a nut job wouldn’t rationally consider the penalty has outweighed the crime.

coffinRX2 your very perceptive.

Grunge_Hippy. I agree with everything you’ve written. Like I said previously, it’s a vicious cycle.

I’ve never understood why some people procreate. Actually I do understand, I just wish it didn’t happen. It’d be nice to see a child that wasn’t conceived out of boredom or the lure of a baby bonus, to actually have a decent upbringing and break the cycle.

jessieduck said :

I’m really disappointed in the media for highlighting Sam and Scott’s past with statements like “Both Mr Oppelaar and Ms Ford had battled addictions and both had criminal records, mostly on drug charges.” in today’s SMH.

This couple may have had a rough past but FFS- they were not doing anything wrong on the night they died and their 3 month old baby certainly didn’t have a criminal or drug history.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/crash-victim-faced-car-theft-charges/1784630.aspx

Looks like Oppelaar was on bail for smashing up his girlfriend’s car a couple of nights before the crash. Was also on bail for car theft. Had he been complying with his bail conditions, he wouldn’t have had Ford in the car with him.

Enlightening article on the front page of CT this morning…

DavoDavo said :

Grrrr said :

DavoDavo said :

imagine the scenario where two cars, each doing 100km/h collide head on. That’s an impact of 200km/h

No it’s not. You forgot to average it across both cars, making it 100km/h again.

Physics lesson: It’s just like two single car collisions, each with a solid wall at 100km/h. Both go from 100 to 0kmh – over the same period of time as if they’d hit a wall instead, so the forces are the same. (Force = mass * acceleration. Acceleration = change in velocity over time.)

Perhaps this will help you understand:

If one car is doing 0 and is hit by another doing 100km, it’s like 2 impacts at 50kmh: one will slow to 50kmh, losing 50kmh. One will speed up to 50kmh, also changing it’s speed 50kmh over the same time.

If one car is doing 50 and hits another, head-on at 100km, it’s like both impacting at 75kmh with a wall: One slows from 100 to 25kmh, losing 75. The other goes from 50 fowards to 25 backwards, losing 75kmh.

etc…

I imagine that, unlike your good self apparently, most people posting here do not have a PHd in Physics.
So I’ll explain:

Firstly we are not talking about acceleration, it is two objects (cars) travelling at a speed of 100km/h each and meeting head on.
Secondly, each car has a mass of around 1.5 tonnes or so, therefore at that speed there is a heck of a lot of energy contained in each car and it takes an equal amount of energy to instantly stop each car.
Thirdly, if they collide head on, that combined energy has to dissipate somehow.

Perhaps this will help you understand:

If one car was to crash head on into an immovable object it would be a crash at 100km/h and the energy dissipated would be half of two cars colliding head on at 100km/h each.

Therefore, as I said, that’s an impact of (one car traveling at) 200km/h.
One car crash – “Bang”, two car crash – “B A N G”.

Geddit?

I sort of disagree. When a car hits an immovable object (such as a solid wall or tree), you have a situation where the energy carried by the vehicle has to be absorbed by that vehicle. When two vehicles hit each other, you have a situation where the energy carried by BOTH vehicles needs to be absorbed, but BOTH vehicles share the energy absorption.

Of course, the two vehicles involved may not absorb the energy in equal amounts, nor do the vehicles necessarily absorb only their own energy. Accordingly, two cars hitting head on while each traveling at 100km/h does not equate with a car hitting a solid object at 200km/h, but rather equates to a car traveling at 200km/h hitting another car which can crumple and absorb some of the energy carried.

It’s still a very big bang.

cleo said :

I truly blame the law, not the police, the laws here in Canberra need to be changed, harsher punishments handed down, if Williams had served a few years in prison, maybe he would have learnt his lesson.

Because we all know how spending time in prison lessens the chance of criminal activity. [/sarcasm]

Agreed that Canberra needs harsher penalties, but this started in NSW, and the last time he crashed was also in NSW.

Well these people have passed into spirit, whats happened is done, you can’t bring them back, I see no need to pull down the families on both sides, especially when they are in shock and are trying to pick up the pieces from this horrific tragedy.
I truly blame the law, not the police, the laws here in Canberra need to be changed, harsher punishments handed down, if Williams had served a few years in prison, maybe he would have learnt his lesson.

If the young girl pulled the handbrake on the car would have gone into a spin, and possibly the car would have rolled, I remember pulling the handbrake on and the went into a spin.

Grrrr said :

DavoDavo said :

imagine the scenario where two cars, each doing 100km/h collide head on. That’s an impact of 200km/h

No it’s not. You forgot to average it across both cars, making it 100km/h again.

Physics lesson: It’s just like two single car collisions, each with a solid wall at 100km/h. Both go from 100 to 0kmh – over the same period of time as if they’d hit a wall instead, so the forces are the same. (Force = mass * acceleration. Acceleration = change in velocity over time.)

Perhaps this will help you understand:

If one car is doing 0 and is hit by another doing 100km, it’s like 2 impacts at 50kmh: one will slow to 50kmh, losing 50kmh. One will speed up to 50kmh, also changing it’s speed 50kmh over the same time.

If one car is doing 50 and hits another, head-on at 100km, it’s like both impacting at 75kmh with a wall: One slows from 100 to 25kmh, losing 75. The other goes from 50 fowards to 25 backwards, losing 75kmh.

etc…

I imagine that, unlike your good self apparently, most people posting here do not have a PHd in Physics.
So I’ll explain:

Firstly we are not talking about acceleration, it is two objects (cars) travelling at a speed of 100km/h each and meeting head on.
Secondly, each car has a mass of around 1.5 tonnes or so, therefore at that speed there is a heck of a lot of energy contained in each car and it takes an equal amount of energy to instantly stop each car.
Thirdly, if they collide head on, that combined energy has to dissipate somehow.

Perhaps this will help you understand:

If one car was to crash head on into an immovable object it would be a crash at 100km/h and the energy dissipated would be half of two cars colliding head on at 100km/h each.

Therefore, as I said, that’s an impact of (one car traveling at) 200km/h.
One car crash – “Bang”, two car crash – “B A N G”.

Geddit?

The Police are doing their job, for all they knew the female passenger may have been a
kidnap victim. Are they supposed to let that dirtbag buzz off? Next day the girl might
have been found at the Cotter with her throat cut.

How do you prevent car theft? One way might be to make it compulsory for all owners of older cars to buy and fit steering locks, ignition cutouts etc. Proof of purchase to be supplied at the next rego renewal or no rego renewal.

An owner who fails to secure their car and has it stolen then cops a stiff fine, say, a mandatory $1,000.00 or their car is impounded for six months. Make it stiff, make it stick.

Well I’ve been watching this thread for days in amazement of the comments and wondering what the world has become. I’m not going to go into my personal opinion here about this incident except – this is tragic in so many ways, the victims, the culprit, the culprits family, the culprits girlfriend, the culprits girlfriends family, family and friends of all, police, ambulance, fire brigage, witnesses, previous victims and families of previous car accidents – the list goes on of those directly and indirectly involved that must be suffering immensely over this.
My thoughts are with all of you at this extremely difficult time and hope that at some time in the future you can survive this. I do hope that through this all have learned the good and bad things and can help the community to move on and save our children and our childrens children.

Beyond time for the mandatory installation of imobilisers to register a car as well as introducton of biometric licences with in car readers that validate the driver’s priveleges.

The Canberra Times is reporting that the drivers of the two cars were “good mates”.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/driver-was-on-bail-for-car-theft/1783424.aspx

In a chilling twist, it has been revealed that the driver, 23-year-old Justin Charles Williams, knew the occupants of the other car.

Williams’s sister revealed to The Canberra Times yesterday that her brother and Mr Oppelaar were ”good mates” and that they shared the same friends.

grunge_hippy said :

Malteser said :

Gah “your children will carry on your legacy”. This is how delusional and uneducated these people are! And this is why we have generations of complete morons!

What… his legacy of dropping out of school, becoming a criminal, causing his own suspected brain damage by crashing a stolen car into a tree and then causing his own death the same way 10 months later?? I know friends and family are heartbroken by this but hopefully one day they will wake up and realise Justin Williams (or anyone like him) is no legacy.

the legacy is the people they have left behind are going to become very bitter and angry at the police, because that is what they do, apportion blame. We’re talking about a community that already have a hatred for authority and especially the police. that will be their legacy. I know the son and daughter of one of the innocent victims (as a teacher) and these already angry, disillusioned and marginalised young people are going to be hell bent on exacting their revenge as they grow up, which will no doubt manifest it anti social behaviour and illegal activities. The cycle continues.

As a Teacher?

Does that include officers leaving parking lots of un-secured cars at the borders?

ozmreeee said :

Hmmm – think my attempt to use quote button went awry … trying again

sunshine said :

cranky said :

Did the female passenger realise that that lever below her right elbow, if pulled, would slow the vehicle?

don’t even go there – easier said than done i’m sure.
before everyone starts crucifying this justin for his crimes, maybe we need to think about everything scott did as well……both as bad as each other in fact word on the street is that scotts life on the wild side was a bit more serious than the car thief however he was luckier in a sense – well it all caught up to them all in the end
RIP to everyone who died – it will affect thousands of the canberra community

Oh my, sunshine … relevance, please? Are you suggesting that because he was a scumbag this guy deserved to die at the hand of another scumbag acting irresponsibly and illegally?

Wow – drawing long bows is common place in The RiotACT, but that’s overly long, even for here.

no , no-one deserved to die and no-one deserves to be glorified either. that’s all

sloppery said :

Care to offer your solution?

To what?

Do you really think that there is a way to prevent all fatal car crashes, ever?

Obviously, unless you’re prepared to offer an utterly useless ‘tough-on-crime’ statement (preferably one which completely ignores the fact that tougher penalties for crime have been demonstrated to raise levels of serious crime), you’re not welcome on RiotAct.

One said :

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

Sorry but we as registered operators shouldn’t need to secure our automotive transport to the hilts to avoid some low life crim who wants to get his rocks off and steal it. Any one that owns a car, bike, anything for that matter has worked hard to get it, The BLAME lies solely with the person(a CRIMINAL) who took something that wasn’t theirs in this case a car.

Nut, i’d have a wild guess and say that it was Sprintmans 626 that was stolen and involved in this incident

Nut said :

sprintman said :

The 626 in question would do 200+ easily, it wasn’t ‘stock’. Ask me how I know?

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS

Personally I’m horrified.. This loser could have wiped any of us out – could have been any of us or any of our friends or family..

I’ve been driving in Queanbeyan toward Canberra many times and had a hoon jet past me at ridiculous speed – scared me out of my skin – only to have a cop car follow shortly behind..

What’s wrong with these idiots? Poor education could be one problem, and poor up-bringings..

Ultimately we make our OWN choices. Mully CHOSE to be a criminal and participate in criminal activity. This tragedy is a consequence of Mullys bad life choices.

Also take a guess what the Government and Police workers say when you report criminal damage or attempted break-ins by a group of drunks who are paid to drink.. Yep – they say it is the fault of the registered owner/operator for parking at home.

It is the registered operators responsibility to take reasonable precaution in securing his or her automotive transport. This reasonable action does include using engine demobilises or steering wheel locks when living in a built up area. Thus to steal a correctly secured automotive transport requires alteration of security devices that carries a heavier sentence, and prevents issue.

So to afford blame onto anyone who isn’t a member of Government system is a wonder only stupid can assume. Better get out the self interest voting pens and gaol some more people…

Malteser said :

Gah “your children will carry on your legacy”. This is how delusional and uneducated these people are! And this is why we have generations of complete morons!

What… his legacy of dropping out of school, becoming a criminal, causing his own suspected brain damage by crashing a stolen car into a tree and then causing his own death the same way 10 months later?? I know friends and family are heartbroken by this but hopefully one day they will wake up and realise Justin Williams (or anyone like him) is no legacy.

the legacy is the people they have left behind are going to become very bitter and angry at the police, because that is what they do, apportion blame. We’re talking about a community that already have a hatred for authority and especially the police. that will be their legacy. I know the son and daughter of one of the innocent victims (as a teacher) and these already angry, disillusioned and marginalised young people are going to be hell bent on exacting their revenge as they grow up, which will no doubt manifest it anti social behaviour and illegal activities. The cycle continues.

astrojax I would suggest that you don’t watch TV. Perhaps give the station a call and ask for someone on 100k to make a choice – it is what they are paid to do, and NO MORE.

Deadmandrinking said :

1) Justin Williams shouldn’t have stolen the car.

2) There is enough to warrant an investigation into police handling of this chase. This ‘police ended the pursuit moments before the crash’ has been heard too often.

3) Nobody deserves to die. Not Justin, not the family.

4) A tattoo on one’s arm does not make one an unfit parent.

5) Harsher penalties, schmenalties. Lock a car thief up with another car thief and they’ll get a tertiary education in hotwiring.

6) Davo, that was hillarious. Oh…you weren’t joking? Oh.

Care to offer your solution?

astrojax said :

newbie ‘one’ said:
The NSW police force have even persued people into the ACT on foot with intent to perform a citizens arrest whilst being armed and on duty in the state of NSW – you can only thank the lucky stars that no one got hurt or shot.

The ACT I would suspect also has a security system in light of the PM’s Triangle, which I would assume could pick up a speeding car and relay information to a network of professionals that could access backup support.

um, i think you’ll find that nsw and act police are each sworn is as ‘special constables’ in the complementary force, so pursuing into the other’s primary territory isn’t such an issue. another who might think prior to writing…

and it is the parliamentary triangle, not the PM’s sole perrogative playground – and if you watch too many hi-tech cops n robbers hollywood movies and think that the ubiquitous ‘they’ have a system where ‘they’ can press a button and, hey presto!, a whizz-bang security systems sparks into life and apprehends the villian; then turn off the teev and ‘puter and venture out into the real world for a moment and look around. sheesh… next someone will post here blaming the police for the whole sorry ev… oh, wait.

What are you on?

Pay tax for National Security eh? Hows Sydney Air port going?

2nd – No person in the ACT has to pay for NSW police who suffer from any kind of injury whist being in the ACT.

3rd – know the law before posting BS

sprintman said :

The 626 in question would do 200+ easily, it wasn’t ‘stock’. Ask me how I know?

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS

Personally I’m horrified.. This loser could have wiped any of us out – could have been any of us or any of our friends or family..

I’ve been driving in Queanbeyan toward Canberra many times and had a hoon jet past me at ridiculous speed – scared me out of my skin – only to have a cop car follow shortly behind..

What’s wrong with these idiots? Poor education could be one problem, and poor up-bringings..

Ultimately we make our OWN choices. Mully CHOSE to be a criminal and participate in criminal activity. This tragedy is a consequence of Mullys bad life choices.

http://tinyurl.com/ydt8u5l

DavoDavo said :

imagine the scenario where two cars, each doing 100km/h collide head on. That’s an impact of 200km/h

No it’s not. You forgot to average it across both cars, making it 100km/h again.

Physics lesson: It’s just like two single car collisions, each with a solid wall at 100km/h. Both go from 100 to 0kmh – over the same period of time as if they’d hit a wall instead, so the forces are the same. (Force = mass * acceleration. Acceleration = change in velocity over time.)

Perhaps this will help you understand:

If one car is doing 0 and is hit by another doing 100km, it’s like 2 impacts at 50kmh: one will slow to 50kmh, losing 50kmh. One will speed up to 50kmh, also changing it’s speed 50kmh over the same time.

If one car is doing 50 and hits another, head-on at 100km, it’s like both impacting at 75kmh with a wall: One slows from 100 to 25kmh, losing 75. The other goes from 50 fowards to 25 backwards, losing 75kmh.

etc…

Gah “your children will carry on your legacy”. This is how delusional and uneducated these people are! And this is why we have generations of complete morons!

What… his legacy of dropping out of school, becoming a criminal, causing his own suspected brain damage by crashing a stolen car into a tree and then causing his own death the same way 10 months later?? I know friends and family are heartbroken by this but hopefully one day they will wake up and realise Justin Williams (or anyone like him) is no legacy.

grumpy phil said :

Wow some of the comments here are unbelievable.

the only joy I get from this tragedy is that according to the newpapers this individual didn’t die instantly. I hope he suffered unbearable agonizing pain in the quarter or halfn ahour before paramedics could administer any morphine.

The irony is almost killing me.

People are dead….families are grieving….enough said

Everybody…
Stop calling this incident an ‘accident’. It wasn’t, it was murder – or manslaughter at the very least.

1) Justin Williams shouldn’t have stolen the car.

2) There is enough to warrant an investigation into police handling of this chase. This ‘police ended the pursuit moments before the crash’ has been heard too often.

3) Nobody deserves to die. Not Justin, not the family.

4) A tattoo on one’s arm does not make one an unfit parent.

5) Harsher penalties, schmenalties. Lock a car thief up with another car thief and they’ll get a tertiary education in hotwiring.

6) Davo, that was hillarious. Oh…you weren’t joking? Oh.

Wow some of the comments here are unbelievable. I’m sure the teenage girl was no angel but I get the feeling some of the Riot Acts commenters would blame victims of domestic violence because they didn’t stop what was happening to them.

I think people such as Herne (#218) need to engage their sarcasm detectors. The
“more speed cameras” needed comments were obviously ridiculing the effectiveness of speed cameras in stopping real road offences. When you miss obvious sarcasm you look stupid.

As to the now deceased moron who was driving the stolen vehicle. Well I’m going to be extremely unchristian here and say that the only joy I get from this tragedy is that according to the newpapers this individual didn’t die instantly. I hope he suffered unbearable agonizing pain in the quarter or halfn ahour before paramedics could administer any morphine.

No need to judge, “Mully” Williams Facebook account speaks volumes! Interests include: Mazda Rotaries, Street Racing (because we don’t have a drag-way) and a complete contempt for Police.

It’s no secret he fantasised only days earlier that Police should have been killed in another high speed chase accident. Would it be too far fetched to think that he provoked the chase in a deliberate attempt to write off a few cops?

BTW, do not be too assured that he has eliminated himself from the gene pool. His sister boasts, “your children will carry on your legacy”.

I don’t believe in the death penalty (even self imposed/darwinist) or punishment through maiming. I am not driven by revenge fantasies relating to these cretins. But that said I do wonder how many lives were ruined and/or ended as a result of the drug dealing activities of these two “wonderful” families before their careers were abruptly ended last weekend.

So very very sad. So much pain and distress for the families who loved them regardless, and for the kids left behind, and especially for the police officers who were operating well within strict guidelines and will live with the terrible outcome of this particular pursuit forever.

I think everybody lost

Herne said :

We need more speed cameras.

No doubt.

What good would a speed camera have been in this instance? Do you think recording the license plate number of a stolen car would do ANYTHING to catch the offender? LOL Give me a break…

Speed cameras linked to a reactive stopping system (eg, spikes / speed bumps at some point past the cameras) would be awesome. Go too fast, expect to buy new tyres…

Herne said :

We need more speed cameras.

No doubt.

What good would a speed camera have been in this instance? Do you think recording the license plate number of a stolen car would do ANYTHING to catch the offender? LOL Give me a break…

Perhaps a reading of “Sarcasm for Dummies” might be useful for Herne?

Malcolm_Powder said :

I am glad the flog died. I cannot believe the family and friends of this worm still blame the police, Where is the logic in that???? Who stole the car??? Who sped past the police??? Who ran from the police??? Who slammed into another car after running a red light at 200Km/h??? Well I know for sure that the police did not steal the car, The police did not run from the police, and I am sure as F**k that the police did not slam into another car at 200Km/h. And all this garbage about being a “good bloke”? I dont know any “good blokes” who steal cars. He is as much of a good bloke, as I am the President of the U.S.A.

+++1, Police are not to blame here. The vitims are the Oppelaar family, not some derro car thief. How can the family blame the Police when they themselves are to blame for his upbringing?

Maybe if the Williams family did a better job raising their son then the Oppelaar family would still be here.

Dont blame the Police for doing their job, Blame that deadshit Mully Williams for causing this!

At the end of the day, does anyone think that this accident will highlight the lenient sentences given to repeat offenders? Honestly, I don’t care about drop kick Mrs Williams or whoever else is going on ACA or to the media spouting rubbish. Boo hoo, now she cares about her son, what about raising him in a caring environment so he didn’t drop out of school in Year 7 an illiterate no hoper FFS. He has three kids, what’s the bet that they turn out to be no hopers as well. Vicious cycle really. So sad.

I care about the fact that these ‘career criminals’ are never put behind bars. The justice system is really pitiful and I think anyone who’s ever had any experience with it knows that.

Williams’s criminal record goes back to 2002, when he just 15, and records 37 convictions mostly for offences such as stealing cars, driving unlicensed and possessing fake numberplates.

He also had convictions for theft, burglary and possessing stolen property.

Williams was also facing a charge of stealing a car and leading police on a chase through south Canberra in September 2008 – police called off the pursuit because he mounted a bike path in the suburb of Kambah in the stolen Holden.

Just more bleach in the shallow end of the the gene pool then.

Herne said :

We need more speed cameras.

No doubt.

What good would a speed camera have been in this instance? Do you think recording the license plate number of a stolen car would do ANYTHING to catch the offender? LOL Give me a break…

In defense of Thumper, I think it was a sarcastic comment.

The 626 in question would do 200+ easily, it wasn’t ‘stock’. Ask me how I know?

Holden Caulfield said :

Fair enough KB1971 & GF … I forgot about the turbo models as well. I used to covet the TX5 version back in the day.

Yes, even one in fair condition for its age will go to over 200 – and get there very quickly, I used to own a Mazda MX6 turbo, same engine and turbo etc and with the potential to be tuned even further.

Anyway, limiting cars to 130km/h is total bollocks. As an exercise, let’s say we limit cars to 100km/h – imagine the scenario where two cars, each doing 100km/h collide head on. That’s an impact of 200km/h, I doubt anyone would survive that. So we limit cars to 80km/h, the amount of energy that has to be dissipated by a 1.5 tonne (or whatever they weigh) car doing 80km/h when it hits soemthing like the side of another car is enormous. Again, the occupants of the hit car have no chance – witness the sad case of the idiot female who killed the old couple in Woden not so long ago.

Speed is not the issue, there’s an old saying – the most unsafe thing in any car is the nut behind the wheel.

Herne said :

We need more speed cameras.

No doubt.

What good would a speed camera have been in this instance? Do you think recording the license plate number of a stolen car would do ANYTHING to catch the offender? LOL Give me a break…

I suspect there might’ve been a tone of sardonic irony in Thumper’s comment.

Coach said :

One can read the 200 or so comments on this post, and see what the ills of our society really are. “Judgement & Conflict”

Read the comments above, switch off your own filters, and FEEL what they say.

Lots of opinions, from a 100 different angles, with people believing they are right and others are wrong, and a need to defend their position with abuse and vitriol.

That is the world this young man grew up in, and that is what he learned. So instead of judging him (please note I am not making any of his actions right) lets look at our own actions, words and behaviour and see what we are contributing to a world that teaches children what he learned. We don’t have to steal a car and kill someone to contribute negatively to our society. Just read the words and their meanings on this page.

“He was not born with the beliefs that led him to those actions” He learned them in our society.

Let’s let of the pure and holy positions that reek through these comments and realise that if we want to influence change in our world, we do it inside ourselves, one thought at a time.

Thank you for posting that, it does send a wake up call to society and it’s a fair call.

I am one of the posters who name called etc, however that guy deserves it. I am a reasonable, law-abiding person who always tries to do the right thing by everybody – BUT, I draw the line at idiots who have no respect for the law (laws incidentally that are there to protect us all). This incident has created a lot of community anger – maybe we did go overboard a bit with some posts, it’s not unexpected when a tragedy of this magnitude unfolds when there was absolutely no need.

The young man’s parents must bear the responsibility for not raising their child to be a good citizen – sure, there are aspects of society that are bad and it’s sad that that is the case, but most parents raise children who never took (or will take) the young man’s path to self destruction.

Yes, you are correct, society IS to blame for what happened; for example, because of the nanny state and people’s ‘rights’ we are not allowed to discipline children, so of course they grow up doing exactly what they want and to hell with what effect that may have on anyone else.

A lot of people do not take any responsibility for their own actions, and they just don’t care – so we are better off without them.

We need more speed cameras.

No doubt.

What good would a speed camera have been in this instance? Do you think recording the license plate number of a stolen car would do ANYTHING to catch the offender? LOL Give me a break…

2 cents said :

snorkel said :

Interesting how these police chases always seem to have been called off just moments before the disaster happens.

if you have ever driven from Qbyn to Nara you’d know there is about 3km between the sets of lights…

Then again if you had of known that you wouldn’t be so sacastically stupid

I hate to be the one to point this out to you, but anyone who has driven from Qbn to Narrabundah would know that there are two sets of lights about 50m apart, to enter and exit the Monaro Highway.

I am glad the flog died. I cannot believe the family and friends of this worm still blame the police, Where is the logic in that???? Who stole the car??? Who sped past the police??? Who ran from the police??? Who slammed into another car after running a red light at 200Km/h??? Well I know for sure that the police did not steal the car, The police did not run from the police, and I am sure as F**k that the police did not slam into another car at 200Km/h. And all this garbage about being a “good bloke”? I dont know any “good blokes” who steal cars. He is as much of a good bloke, as I am the President of the U.S.A.

ScrappyKat said :

I wish the bloke had lived. Perhaps lost his legs and an arm, but with enough brains left in him to feel the guilt of killing 3 innocent people for the next 60 years. I’m hoping the gf comes through to feel that guilt for the 2 of them.

I wish people would bring their kids up to respect people, instead of it all being ME ME ME.

The flaw in this is that it presupposes he had that much brains to begin with, before further damage from the crash. Somehow I doubt it!

p1 said :

More speed cameras would stop this from happening. Or not.

Not! Speed camera’s generally catch the average driver who inadvertantly creeps above the limit for a minute or so. Speed camera’s catch people after the event they do little to prevent speeding whereas police presence on our roads ensures people slow down in the vast majority of cases!

Holden Caulfield said :

As pointed out in #193 the speed of the car is, in some ways, irrelevant. Fast enough, is fast enough. However, I doubt a Mazda 626 of that age would have been able to top 200km/h when it was brand new, much less after 15 years or so.

it was the GD626 Turbo and it was *omg more poor kittens will die because of loud hoons* modified as well.

so 200kph would have been easy

sunshine said :

cranky said :

Did the female passenger realise that that lever below her right elbow, if pulled, would slow the vehicle?

it will affect thousands of the canberra community

yeah, thousands of bogans

ScrappyKat said :

I wish the bloke had lived. Perhaps lost his legs and an arm, but with enough brains left in him to feel the guilt of killing 3 innocent people for the next 60 years. I’m hoping the gf comes through to feel that guilt for the 2 of them.

I wish people would bring their kids up to respect people, instead of it all being ME ME ME.

thats the thing, i dont reckon he would have… he would have blamed the cops… thats what they do, there is never ownership.

Fair enough KB1971 & GF … I forgot about the turbo models as well. I used to covet the TX5 version back in the day.

I wish the bloke had lived. Perhaps lost his legs and an arm, but with enough brains left in him to feel the guilt of killing 3 innocent people for the next 60 years. I’m hoping the gf comes through to feel that guilt for the 2 of them.

Exactly. That would be a much more fitting punishment than dying.

As for the mornonic post by Sunshine once again suggesting that family deserved to die because of their pasts. You, of course, have NEVER done anything wrong and by virtue of that are the only one in the world who deserves the live? Of course. Sunshine, you are yet another waste of oxygen!

I wish the bloke had lived. Perhaps lost his legs and an arm, but with enough brains left in him to feel the guilt of killing 3 innocent people for the next 60 years. I’m hoping the gf comes through to feel that guilt for the 2 of them.

I wish people would bring their kids up to respect people, instead of it all being ME ME ME.

So, leaving aside all the emotion and all the blame, the bottom line is that criminal bogan Williams took out one of his criminal bogan mates.

For all us law-abiding Canberrans, that means the crime rate is about to go down. Suits me.

Clown Killer said :

It was a 626 turbo – well and truely capable of 200+

Bullshit. Maybe if it was new and you pushed it off a very high cliff.

You obviously know all then. Take it from someone in the motor trade, a standard Maza 626/Ford Teslstar is capable of 200km/h (moreso when new), the turbo one gets there twice as fast, especially on a long down hill from Hindmarsh Drive.

It was a 626 turbo – well and truely capable of 200+

Bullshit. Maybe if it was new and you pushed it off a very high cliff.

after teaching kids from similar backgrounds for over 10 years, there is never any ownership of their own behaviour. It’s everyone else’s fault but their own. It starts the minute they come to school and have rules and structure imposed on them until they go out and become the Mully Williams of the world.

It doesn’t take away from the fact that despite their background, 4 people died, including a little baby. That’s sad.

I’m really disappointed in the media for highlighting Sam and Scott’s past with statements like “Both Mr Oppelaar and Ms Ford had battled addictions and both had criminal records, mostly on drug charges.” in today’s SMH.

This couple may have had a rough past but FFS- they were not doing anything wrong on the night they died and their 3 month old baby certainly didn’t have a criminal or drug history.

It’s really low.

This story just gets sadder and sadder. What a mess. I feel so sorry for the police who were only doing their jobs.

One can read the 200 or so comments on this post, and see what the ills of our society really are. “Judgement & Conflict”

Read the comments above, switch off your own filters, and FEEL what they say.

Lots of opinions, from a 100 different angles, with people believing they are right and others are wrong, and a need to defend their position with abuse and vitriol.

That is the world this young man grew up in, and that is what he learned. So instead of judging him (please note I am not making any of his actions right) lets look at our own actions, words and behaviour and see what we are contributing to a world that teaches children what he learned. We don’t have to steal a car and kill someone to contribute negatively to our society. Just read the words and their meanings on this page.

“He was not born with the beliefs that led him to those actions” He learned them in our society.

Let’s let of the pure and holy positions that reek through these comments and realise that if we want to influence change in our world, we do it inside ourselves, one thought at a time.

I also feel incredibly sorry for the policemen who initially gave chase, had to drag (and attempt to revive) a dead baby from the wreck, and are now copping blame for the entire incident.

After having read that news.com.au article, i can now safely say “good riddance”.

Too bad it took 3 other lives to get rid of him.

Holden

It was a 626 turbo – well and truely capable of 200+.

Holden Caulfield said :

As pointed out in #193 the speed of the car is, in some ways, irrelevant. Fast enough, is fast enough. However, I doubt a Mazda 626 of that age would have been able to top 200km/h when it was brand new, much less after 15 years or so.

On the contrary, yes they can do 200 (I have personal experience) & they also had a turbo charged variant which was quite a bit quicker.

Scribble said :

Just running through the standard Riot-ACT incident report:

Blame apportioned (check)

Rumours semi-referenced (check)

Simple-minded statements repeated (check)

Appeals to common sense (check)

And ditto hairy-chested declarations about how “the real world works”.

The label scum (and stronger) applied to strangers (check)

Dark warnings made about the breakdown of society thanks to said scum (check)

Ritualist ‘hard men’ comments made (check)

Excellent. The innuendo level also looks good, so let’s see if we can crack the 200 comment mark without having to fill out the tedious ‘logical argument’ or ’empathy’ sections.

Genius!!!

Check out Skyes mum: big tatt on her arm. So convincing in her story that she did not know about Justins past, knows that Skye was a good girl and would never get in a stolen car (what about stealling with Justin from Westfield huh?) blames the cops for police chases (duh) etc etc:

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/police-chase-disasters/x7yeblq

Bogan mum, bogan kids

Perhaps many more unmarked police cars would have resulted in Williams having 137 convictions not just 37.

As pointed out in #193 the speed of the car is, in some ways, irrelevant. Fast enough, is fast enough. However, I doubt a Mazda 626 of that age would have been able to top 200km/h when it was brand new, much less after 15 years or so.

Hmmm – think my attempt to use quote button went awry … trying again

sunshine said :

cranky said :

Did the female passenger realise that that lever below her right elbow, if pulled, would slow the vehicle?

don’t even go there – easier said than done i’m sure.
before everyone starts crucifying this justin for his crimes, maybe we need to think about everything scott did as well……both as bad as each other in fact word on the street is that scotts life on the wild side was a bit more serious than the car thief however he was luckier in a sense – well it all caught up to them all in the end
RIP to everyone who died – it will affect thousands of the canberra community

Oh my, sunshine … relevance, please? Are you suggesting that because he was a scumbag this guy deserved to die at the hand of another scumbag acting irresponsibly and illegally?

Wow – drawing long bows is common place in The RiotACT, but that’s overly long, even for here.

http://www.news.com.au/national/justin-williams-a-roadway-rambo-who-was-destined-to-kill/story-e6frfkvr-1225844042240

sepi said :

Daily tele has a witness guessing the car was doing 200km an hour (through the red light).

Why does any car in australia need to ever do more than 130km maximum? I think cars should be speed limited.

Although your heart is clearly in the right place, 130km/h is still fast enough to tear a car into pieces if it hits an immoveable object.

Williams’s criminal record goes back to 2002, when he just 15, and records 37 convictions mostly for offences such as stealing cars, driving unlicensed and possessing fake numberplates.

He also had convictions for theft, burglary and possessing stolen property.

Williams was also facing a charge of stealing a car and leading police on a chase through south Canberra in September 2008 –
(Taken from smh.com.au)

Disaster waiting to happen?
Maybe thank the Magistrates for their tolerance in letting low life back into community. 37 convictions..

In an ironic twist of fate he was said to be best mates with the guy he killed..R.I.P.

cranky said :

Did the female passenger realise that that lever below her right elbow, if pulled, would slow the vehicle?

don’t even go there – easier said than done i’m sure.
before everyone starts crucifying this justin for his crimes, maybe we need to think about everything scott did as well……both as bad as each other in fact word on the street is that scotts life on the wild side was a bit more serious than the car thief however he was luckier in a sense – well it all caught up to them all in the end
RIP to everyone who died – it will affect thousands of the canberra community

Funny how some people seem to think that someone like Justin always drives around at 60kph, and it’s only when they see a Police car and are ‘prevoked’, that they suddenly get the urge to drive very fast……….

The family and friends are happy to blame the Police for this accident? How about taking a good hard look at themselves? Maybe if they’d taken more interest in his upbringing when he was young, been positive role models, or taken him aside and pointed out that what he was doing was really foolish – then maybe it may not have gotten to the stage where he’s smeared himself and three other people all over the road?

I mean to say, this guy nearly killed himself less than 12 months ago – you’d have to think that even if he was too stupid or too cocky to put two and two together himself, then surely someone in his family or circle of friends must have thought, “Isn’t it time this stupidity stops before he kills himself or someone else?”. No, they probably thought it was funny/cool/tough that he acted like this.

And it’s good to see Clea Rose’s family getting wheeled out again by WIN TV, just to add their voice to the debate – again! This may sound harsh, but just because their daughter died after being run down by another dirtbag (who should have been in jail long before he killed Clea Rose!), doesn’t mean they are suddenly experts on Police pursuit tactics.

And as for the civil liberterians – they can go and jump…….

Let’s ban the Police altogether, then nothing bad will ever happen.

Yoda1 said :

1. unlicensed driver
(http://ozsoapbox.com/where-were-the-parents/justin-williams-crash-highlights-failure-of-oz-courts/)
So the kid had a bad driving history
Do you blame the courts for not implementing harsher penalties, was the judge to know that at a later stage, something like this would happen

Ah, in a word, yes. The trashbag behind the wheel had previously plowed into a tree with enough of an impact to land himself into a coma. The guy was clearly a risk behind the wheel – the best predictor of future behaviour, is past behaviour.

Belle85 said :

This is one of faceboks many fan pages, but a stupid one. Anyway go to this link scroll down to Mully Williams (Justin Williams) and see what he wrote about the police on the 10th of this month, then tell me this was the cops fault!!

This is what he wrote, “the fuckers can neva catch me wen i behind da wheel FUCK COPPERS AND ALL SNICHS”.

This Jerk was going to be reckless and but peoples lives in danger no matter what.
Give the Police a break they were doing there job.
As I said before the police didn’t even deserve to see the mess they approched on Saturday night when this happened.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=wall&id=100000420426695#!/group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=23072864599

I think you have summed it up. Justin had a RIGHT to take that car. The fukken koppas shood respkt dat

Belle85 said :

This is what he wrote, “the fuckers can neva catch me wen i behind da wheel FUCK COPPERS AND ALL SNICHS”.

He was also dumb as dogshit, going by his facebook posts.

This is one of faceboks many fan pages, but a stupid one. Anyway go to this link scroll down to Mully Williams (Justin Williams) and see what he wrote about the police on the 10th of this month, then tell me this was the cops fault!!

This is what he wrote, “the fuckers can neva catch me wen i behind da wheel FUCK COPPERS AND ALL SNICHS”.

This Jerk was going to be reckless and but peoples lives in danger no matter what.
Give the Police a break they were doing there job.
As I said before the police didn’t even deserve to see the mess they approched on Saturday night when this happened.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=wall&id=100000420426695#!/group.php?v=wall&ref=mf&gid=23072864599

A lot of amateurs have had there say. now look at the facts

1. Its the NSW police’s fault for trying to enforce the law
2. It’s Mazda’s fault for making a car that can go fast and is stealable
3. It’s the Mazda owner’s fault for not securing their car properly
4. It’s the AFP’s fault, even though they weren’t involved
5. It’s TAMS’s fault for having Canberra Ave in such a condition that people can drive fast on it
6. It’s NSW health’s fault for keeping Justin alive 10 months ago

But whatever, it aint Justin’s fault for stealing the car or evading police or driving at excessive speed or running red lights.

A real tragedy for absolutely everyone involved.

The tragedy is clearly the fault of the driver of the stolen car and I can’t comprehend how people can possibly blame the police that were doing their job. But something should be done to improve the safety of police pursuits. A “car chase” by definition involves speed which is dangerous to every other road user. At the same time, as others have posted, you can’t have a “no pursuits” rule because then it will be become a free for all for those that steal cars, drink drive etc Maybe some sort of GPS tracking?

missalli said :

Word on the street is that Justin and his family knew Sam and Scott…Makes sense as to why the families are all blaming the police. I was a little stunned to see members of Scott’s family on the news, not even 24 hrs after the horrific accident, laying full blame on the police with not even a mention of Justin. If it turns out that that is correct, then what a horrible co-incidence.

Having a look at the facebook links someone posted earlier, it seems that they all knew each other.

Daily tele has a witness guessing the car was doing 200km an hour (through the red light).

Why does any car in australia need to ever do more than 130km maximum? I think cars should be speed limited.

So Mully,

Im sure youve done your Facebook groups proud!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/LEGG-IT/195115310892

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lckmt.jpg

Mmmmmmmmmmmmhhhh! Southern Cross 10 just ran an update with only 2 stories:

1. Relatives of family killed by a Queenbeyan man driving a stolen car blame a police chase
2. Queenbeyan Council closed Crawford St today for a parade to honour racing driver Mark Webber!

Could this be a cultural thing?

Maybe Queenbeyan Council should look for some non Bogan role models to honour with a parade!

hello people said :

alright, i didnt get through them all, but i would like to say something as a member of THE INNOCENT FAMILY KILLED’s family. The QBN police have a lot to answer for, they helped cause these deaths, yes the driver shouldnt have stole the car or been in the chase, but seriously there are now 10 children who lost a parent last night, that baby boy was 3days short of 3mth old and is dead because some stupid car and a need to make an arrest, the mother also had 3 other young children who were thankfuly not with her – they have lost their mummy and baby brother because of some stupid car and a need to make an arrest, the father also had 4 other children, and he might have done wrong, BUT THE DRIVER OF THE OTHER CAR ALSO HAD 3 SMALL CHILDREN WHO LOST THEIR. Im sure that ACT has some law about ceasing a high speed chase once it reaches a certin speed, the red light where they claim to have halted the chase was less than 100meters from the accident and 6kms from the NSW border. Nothing can bring our loved ones back, but the police need to stop putting our lives at risk and helping fatalaties just over some stupid bloody car and to make an arrest!!!

This update just makes the tragity even sadder, but points out even further what a f++kwit Justin really was… as with prob 90% of people reading and writing on this forum, they are parents themselves and with that come a huge step in ones life. For those that probably weren’t mature enough to really become a parent its a slap in the face to wake up to real life and start thinking of yourself and your family

obviously nor the first, second or even 3rd child still wasn’t enough for this d++khead to grow out of his shitful life he was wallowing in.

to be 23years old, a father of 3 and still be stealing cars and doing whatever else he was involved in, he oviously really didn’t have much to look forward to. i can sleep well at night knowing my mid 90’s family car will be there in the morning now he has passed.

from memory the police involve in this acco survived and made a full recovery… (screen dumped off mull-heads facebook page)
http://i44.tinypic.com/2lckmt.jpg

Fortuneatly, he wasn’t so lucking. my best wishes go out to his children and the children’s mother who can happily remember his for what he wasn’t and won’t be menanced and ashamed by him in years to come.

Chalk another scumbag up for natural selection.

Just a shame others got caught in the way.

The fact of the matter is this Mully has done this before and if he didn’t kill himself and the other poor family now, he would have done it next time. Everyone seems hell bent on blaming the police. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Why not take a look at this boy and admit that he was in the wrong. He stole the car, He was speeding! After being in a coma from last time you would have thought he would have learnt his lesson. Obviously not! He’s paid the ultimate price and taken an innocent family with him.

Proof the scum of the earth congregate in online packs: http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/pages/IN-LOVING-MEMORY-OF-JUSTIN-KARL-MULLY-WILLIAMS/104069206294354?v=wall&ref=search

georgesgenitals said :

BundaSt said :

Scumbag’s post on Facebook just days ago. Oh the irony!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lckmt.jpg

Looks like natural selection did the job our courts couldn’t. The world is a better place without this person.

Have a look at post 10th March (on below link), seems to sum it all up perfectly. He was a disgrace.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=104184486281345&id=814760135

First and foremost, my condolences to the family lost.

My condolences also to the NSW & ACT Police who for whatever reason are seen as the punching bag for the “Blame Game”

What people should understand is the chain of incremental event that lead up to a disaster.

1. unlicensed driver
(http://ozsoapbox.com/where-were-the-parents/justin-williams-crash-highlights-failure-of-oz-courts/)
So the kid had a bad driving history
Do you blame the courts for not implementing harsher penalties, was the judge to know that at a later stage, something like this would happen

2. the clown steals a car
so, pursuit or no pursuit, this driver had a different agenda than just a casual drive with his girlfriend.

3. Police pursuit
To chase, or not to chase; that is the question
but really should allowing criminals free reign on the road be considered an option.
Should the police even bother getting in a car ?
Is every driver in the future going to excelerate, knowing that the police will just say, oh well.

Wheather persuit is engaged or not, moron drivers will sooner or later injure or kill someone.

Put this in to perspective, had the officer engaged in pursuit continued, he may have been able to place himself in a position to engage the PIT maneuver.
This would have seen the offender, spun out, or off the side of the road, without causing harm to anyone but himself or his passenger.

As quick as someone says, its the fault of the police, some one else further down the road would just as quickly say, “where are all the police when these young hoons are out”

Unfortunately common sense is vanishing, and it seems that technical safety measures should be implemented.

Think:
had the car have been fitted with a speed limiter, would the driver still have fled ?
If anyone can provide valid reason for why a car should need to be able to do more than 110km/h, then please dont troll or argue here, take your arguement to your local member and ask for a raise on speed limits (GL)

Woody Man, your arguement really is invalid and i wonder if you actually thought about what you posted.
To insinuate that the police should just let these thugs go, and let the insurance claims sort them out demonstrates a level of mentality equivalent to that of the IDIOT who started this whole mess.

Just think, the police let people go, every one is now doing high speed runners from the police, what was a once in a blue moon occurrence, has now become a regular daily practice, how many MORE lives do you think your “Let the Insurance Companies sort It Out” method is going to save ??

georgesgenitals said :

BundaSt said :

Scumbag’s post on Facebook just days ago. Oh the irony!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lckmt.jpg

I don’t get this extreme hatred towards the police. If you don’t like the police, then piss of to another country where there’s little law and order (like Afghanistan) and live there instead. If you hate the police, then you hate the community – the police are representatives. Although they are not perfect, their number one priority is to protect life and property. Stop blaming the police, the government, whatever for these deaths. If Williams didn’t steal the car, then this tragedy wouldn’t have happened. But since some of us want to put the blame on someone/something, other than Williams himself, well ok then, let’s starting questioning his parents and the way he was brought up.

Clown Killer said
“Without dwelling too long on the whole “to chase or not to chase” thing, it does puzzle me that for one class of property offence – car theft – there would appear to be strong community support for what could be described as the ‘chase irrespective of the consequences’ model, yet for another class of property crime – burglary – it’s accepted that the police may try to get around to your place sometime soon to give you a case number so you can kick proceedings of with your insurer”

Personally I’d be happy for the police to rush around and arrest anyone that was breaking into my propert, they could even chase them in they need to!

Post 162, sums it all up really. The world is a better place without this low life.

hahahah, … just talking to a good mate of mine, who manages a couple retails stores at a local westfield.

He’s just seen the pic of this douchebag, and identifies him and his “innocent” gf who recently stole over $500 of stock from one of his stores!

Glad he’s dead.

Sums it all up really – http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?v=feed&story_fbid=104184486281345&id=814760135

snorkel said :

Interesting how these police chases always seem to have been called off just moments before the disaster happens.

if you have ever driven from Qbyn to Nara you’d know there is about 3km between the sets of lights…

Then again if you had of known that you wouldn’t be so sacastically stupid

Mick said :

Excuse me, no-one deserves to die, and comments regarding the justification of a death are so out of line.

It’s a tragedy, but no-one, and I mean NO-ONE deserves to die. Guilty or otherwise.

agreed!

i’m sure people will object to this as emotions are running high at the moment.
No-one deserved to die, not even Justin
The Police were doing their jobs
families of the deceased and the police are suffering – no one wins, everyone loses
Justin shouldn’t have stolen a car in the first place but yes he has grown up through the system. no excuse, but did the system condition him through his past behaviour to panic at the first sign of police? just a question. any ‘normal’ person would stop but don’t forget we aren’t dealing with a ‘normal’ situation.
the victims knew the offender hence the blame is largely aimed towards the police.
i think it’s an unfortunate set of circumstances for everyone involved. I think rather than targetting police, justin etc how about some serious changes to the justice system in canberra. If the penalty had been harsher when he was younger maybe everyone would be alive today. maybe the courts should try to instil a new system were running from the police in the first instance no matter how old is an automatic prison sentence? a slap on the wrist does nothing for the victims past present and future nor anything for the offender

BundaSt said :

Scumbag’s post on Facebook just days ago. Oh the irony!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lckmt.jpg

Looks like natural selection did the job our courts couldn’t. The world is a better place without this person.

So, are they going to play TISM’s ‘Greg! The Stop Sign!’ at Mr William’s funeral?

I wonder what penalty Justin got off the courts the last time he got caught after crashing a stolen motor vehicle?

I’m betting it would be less then a speeding fine! Be interesting if anyone has access to the records.

I wonder how many times he has been caught before with no-conviction recorded?

I wonder how many times he was given a good behaviour bond

I wonder how many times Magistrates thought it reasonable for Justin to continue risking the lives of Canberrans, will they take any blame at the inquest?

I wonder whether Magistrates feel pressure of precedent to give lenient sentences so they’re not overturned on appeal.

I’d love it if the Canberra times could do an article on sentencing on the ACT. I spoke to a copper the other day who said theres blokes with over 100 convictions walking around the ACT. How can that happen????

I’d love to see an article on recidivist offending, state by state, and see how the ACT’s ‘human rights’ sentences stacks up at attempting to prevent innocent people from becoming victim to career criminals.

Until the Public starts becoming upset at ridiculous sentences which allow criminals such as Justin to steal cars and kill people, we wont see any change from a culture in the ACT Courts of not punishing criminals.

newbie ‘one’ said:
The NSW police force have even persued people into the ACT on foot with intent to perform a citizens arrest whilst being armed and on duty in the state of NSW – you can only thank the lucky stars that no one got hurt or shot.

The ACT I would suspect also has a security system in light of the PM’s Triangle, which I would assume could pick up a speeding car and relay information to a network of professionals that could access backup support.

um, i think you’ll find that nsw and act police are each sworn is as ‘special constables’ in the complementary force, so pursuing into the other’s primary territory isn’t such an issue. another who might think prior to writing…

and it is the parliamentary triangle, not the PM’s sole perrogative playground – and if you watch too many hi-tech cops n robbers hollywood movies and think that the ubiquitous ‘they’ have a system where ‘they’ can press a button and, hey presto!, a whizz-bang security systems sparks into life and apprehends the villian; then turn off the teev and ‘puter and venture out into the real world for a moment and look around. sheesh… next someone will post here blaming the police for the whole sorry ev… oh, wait.

Scumbag’s post on Facebook just days ago. Oh the irony!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2lckmt.jpg

WillowJim said :

Swaggie said :

As for the female passenger what was she doing there I wonder?

She was 17 years old and she’s on the verge of death. She broke no law. I’m sure she didn’t tell him to be a f-ckwit. Give her a break: teens make mistakes and she’s paying a heavier toll for hers than most of us do.

She broke no law? Yes she did; one that is punishable by 5 years imprisonment and/or 500 penalty units.

If she survives – and it looks like she will – hopefully she learns from it.

To suggest that the police are to blame is as ridiculous as saying that Mazda are to blame for making a car that can go that fast. By saying that the police SHOULDN’T chase someone who refuses to stop for an RBT shows how truly narrow minded some people can be. Yes, it is messed up that this led to the death of so many people, but by advocating not stopping for RBT’s, how many drunk drivers will we have on our roads? Morons like Mr Williams would simply gas it past the cops all the time and then who knows how many people we’d have to bury?

Saturday nights tragedy is just that. A dumb kid doing something that he knew was illegal and the police doing their job. They’ve done it without question thousands of times and unfortunately this time it led to a horrible accident. My thoughts go out to the families of all those killed as well as to the officers that were involved, but lets stop playing the blame game and look and the reality of the situation.

Mr. Williams is a car thief. He almost died 10 months ago doing the same thing. I have no sympathy for him due to his selfish actions. If he had survived, he would be charged with 3 counts of vehiclular homicide and he would go to jail. This guy was clearly a stain on society and was deservedly rubbed out. The only sympathy should be for the people he murdered.

I had a longer and more detailed version of #156 eh_steve composed in my head…

It makes you wonder. If we ban police chases, how many people will have to die under the wheels of drunks, who didn’t drink drive before the ban, before we have to reinstate police chases?

It’s the typical utilitarian dilemmna – the greater good to the greater populace. How can you define that in this scenario?

I can’t see banning police chases being a positive move for society.

Roadrage77 said :

On another point, it seems to be standard police protocol in these instances to claim that the pursuit “had just been terminated” prior to the fatal collision. They said the exact same thing after an infant was killed by a stolen vehicle in Western Sydney around the start of the year. It’s almost impossible to prove exactly when and if a pursuit was terminated, and the police know it.

impossible crap – the radio is an archived record and the police called off the pursuit prior to the collision – woody’s excellent post following yours seemed to nail it; they go through a red in a very dangerous manner, it is apparent the dirtbag is not going to slow down, pursuit aborted: dirtbag goes into the next intersection to show that this decision was the right one, very very sadly. nothing the police could have done and to denigrate them for this is a weak dog tactic. suggest growing up and thinking before writing on public forum sites like RA.

The Police can not be blamed for what happened. The driver of the stolen car deserves all of the blame for killing 3 innocent people.

A bit of perspective. How many people have died on Australian roads because of situations like this (stolen car, speeding, running red lights, unlicensed driver, repeat offender etc), where police weren’t involved?

If the police couldn’t pursue, what drunk would ever stop at an RBT. You could basically drive around pissed all the time with little more than a fine to fear, and given some of the people that are already on the roads I am sure there is a sizeable portion of the population that would take advantage of that.

Just running through the standard Riot-ACT incident report:

Blame apportioned (check)

Rumours semi-referenced (check)

Simple-minded statements repeated (check)

Appeals to common sense (check)

And ditto hairy-chested declarations about how “the real world works”.

The label scum (and stronger) applied to strangers (check)

Dark warnings made about the breakdown of society thanks to said scum (check)

Ritualist ‘hard men’ comments made (check)

Excellent. The innuendo level also looks good, so let’s see if we can crack the 200 comment mark without having to fill out the tedious ‘logical argument’ or ’empathy’ sections.

Those facebook pages just magnify that impression about 100 fold. Talk about bogan central!

Was very sad news this – but it was only a matter of time which makes it even sader.

The fact is that NSW police have been crossing the borders for a long time. They are partners with the ACT police who are policing the NSW and ACT Government social housing for some kind of bonus or payments. Mainly as another form of tax, and to increase vacancy rates before re-development for Mr Rudds 2020 transport system.

The NSW police force have even persued people into the ACT on foot with intent to perform a citizens arrest whilst being armed and on duty in the state of NSW – you can only thank the lucky stars that no one got hurt or shot.

The ACT I would suspect also has a security system in light of the PM’s Triangle, which I would assume could pick up a speeding car and relay information to a network of professionals that could access backup support.

Then again I have not seen too many posts here asking why cars do 150km are not correctly secured with anti thieft devices. More over I see nothing about the morons running the police while taking secret donations in back rooms.

abbccc said :

Queanbeyan really is like a ghetto – infested with single mothers who got pregnant at high school. This is the end-product of allowing teen pregnancies. Children who hate all forms of authority, have no respect for other people’s property and live with an us-versus-them mentality all of their lives. That place is a rat’s nest of teenage fail.

Anyone read Freakonomics?

Here we go, was waiting for this rubbish to come up, of course Canberra doesn’t have any teenage problems though hey??

Grow up

There’s no way to tell whether this idiot wouldn’t have crashed his car anyway – we don’t know how fast he was going when was initially seen by police.

It’s a terrible tragedy and people are going to be angry and frustated.

It’s sad that frustration is vented at the police, who are trying to keep the country in order. If criminals were allowed to get away without effort then I’m sure there would be more loss of life from the resulting breakdown in society.

I think there are a group of people out there who think that the police only exist to cause them difficulties and stop them from doing what they want. They feel that the police intrude on their ‘freedom’. For these people, ‘freedom’ is about exploiting others for as much as they can – through crime, violence, fraud etc. I know that there will always be corruption in any organisation but for the most part the police are pretty good – if you’re a good, ethical person you’re not likely to have a problem with them.

Williams was a serial criminal whose actions resulted in the deaths of himself and three others. If you think the police are at fault for this, then perhaps you fall into the category of people who think they should be ‘free’ to do what they want, at anyone’s expense.

I agree 110% with Postalgeek. It has been proven that this steaming pile of shit Justin has stolen and crashed at least one other car prior to the accident on saturday. Who knows how many other cars he has stolen and what kind of society destroying activities he took part in with his spare time.

I can’t believe police are getting the blame. The SMH claims, “Police were conducting traffic stops at Queanbeyan about 10pm (AEDT) on Saturday when a vehicle travelled past them at an excessive speed.”

So the thief was already speeding BEFORE being pursued.

Even if this weren’t true, it makes sense to me that those who steal cars don’t care about obeying speed limits. And police are supposed to make efforts to stop criminals NOT do nothing. Have a little compassion for the young officers who witnessed the terrible aftermath.

An interesting stat from the NSW Police Association, quoted from this article http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/116445//police-pursuits-how-they-work-in-nsw.html

“… there were about 2000 police pursuits in NSW every year, with most of them lasting less than two minutes.“

So, in NSW alone, there are almost 40 pursuits a week and the vast majority of pursuits don’t even make the press.

Yes, this was a tragedy but it is all down to the driver of the stolen vehicle. Any calls for a halt to police pursuing criminals is an emotional knee jerk reaction.

On the matter of the cynicism over the report the pursuit had been called off, perhaps in the light of the number of pursuits actually occurring it is highly likely that the pursuit was called off in accordance with perfectly good procedures.

Certainly the matter needs to be reviewed and the article I’ve cited states that every pursuit undergoes a review. Maybe there will be further lessons learnt and the procedures modified in the light of new information.

Like many other correspondents I want to express my condolences to all of the innocent parties in this tragedy but I fully support the police in their duty to legally apprehend criminals.

Mick said :

Excuse me, no-one deserves to die, and comments regarding the justification of a death are so out of line.

It’s a tragedy, but no-one, and I mean NO-ONE deserves to die. Guilty or otherwise.

With the exception of reckless recidivist shitbags who wipe out kids. But if you want to go cuddle them, go ahead.

Biianca Rasiic R.I.P iii cant believe i was just with yuu the other daii fuk the AFP

This is a perfect example of the friendship circle of this clown. Gotta love the spelling capabilities there. Oh and Biianca, So when your car gets stolen by some flog like Justin, i guess you will still be saying “FUK THE AFP”????

Screw your head on and please do us all a favor and grow up.

Queanbeyan really is like a ghetto – infested with single mothers who got pregnant at high school. This is the end-product of allowing teen pregnancies. Children who hate all forms of authority, have no respect for other people’s property and live with an us-versus-them mentality all of their lives. That place is a rat’s nest of teenage fail.

Anyone read Freakonomics?

This isn’t the 70’s, ala Starsky and Hutch car chases.

After locating the dumped vehicle, forensics could have determined if the “career criminal” ever touched the 25 year old Mazda rust-bucket (provided he didn’t burn it out of course). Too late now though.

No need for dangerous chases.

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with comment 115. If the driver of the stolen car hadn’t been doing to wrong thing in the first place it’s most likely that this tragedy would naver have happened. Point is (for the hard of thinking) he did the wrong thing and this was a direct result of doing so. Therefore he is to blame.

And, as for the freaking mouthbreather who suggested that the family in the other car deserved to die due to the fact that they (or the guy at least) had a not especially pristine past, you are a fcuking oxygen thief. Moron.

I’m guessing someone will have to remove Mr Williams’ membership from this facebook page now –

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=info&ref=sgm&id=100000420426695#!/pages/DUDE-We-almost-died-Yea-but-it-was-fun-though/296121079380

I’m an agnostic, or is it atheist, I can never remember which is which – anyway, as such I do not believe in god (of any sort) or Heaven or Hell, which is a shame, as the scumbag shithead who killed that family cannot burn in agony in the everlasting flames of Hell.

I grew up in an age when people took responsibility for their own actions, if you were walking on a footpath and tripped and broke a leg – well, it was your own silly fault for not watching what you were doing. People those days had a healthy respect for the law, usually in the shape of a burly copper who would throw the book at you for the slightest provocation, needless to say that was enough to stop all but the most determined from attempting anything untoward.
These days, because everybody has ‘rights’ police are hamstrung in that they cannot do what the coppers of old used to do (e.g., give an errant child a clip round the ear). Because of that we have a society riddled with people who don’t give a shit for anybody else. So much for the nanny state and all the do-gooders!

If the so-called driver (he wasn’t really a ‘driver’ – he was at the controls of a missile) had had a few good clips round the ear when he was growing up (er – well, actually he never ‘grew up’ as he was still acting like a spoiled child) then this tragedy and others like it may well have never happened.

Bring back hanging and flogging I say. Scum of the earth deserve to be treated like the scum that they are, the courts are far too lenient.

Karma-phala

Excuse me, no-one deserves to die, and comments regarding the justification of a death are so out of line.

It’s a tragedy, but no-one, and I mean NO-ONE deserves to die. Guilty or otherwise.

UrbanReality said :

Here is Justins FB page…and of course its full of “great bloke” and “Didn’t deserve to die”.
http://www.facebook.com/fordskee?ref=ss#!/profile.php?v=wall&ref=sgm&id=100000420426695

Not one of them have paid any respects to the Opelaar Familiy……..

Without dwelling too long on the whole “to chase or not to chase” thing, it does puzzle me that for one class of property offence – car theft – there would appear to be strong community support for what could be described as the ‘chase irrespective of the consequences’ model, yet for another class of property crime – burglary – it’s accepted that the police may try to get around to your place sometime soon to give you a case number so you can kick proceedings of with your insurer.

One of the arguments put to support the chase position, is that if the police were to not chase, or if police were to chase but then give up if the escapee didn’t immediately surrender then that would be sending a clear message to would be car thieves and other criminals that you can easily evade arrest – but I wonder then what sort of message is being sent to burglars who know that even if a homeowner or neighbour catches them at it they’ll have at worst a couple of hours and at best a couple of days to escape the long arm of the law.

And what of the return for the risks taken? is the imperative of bringing these toe-rags to justice worth the carnage. Say if they caught the bloke and he hadn’t killed anyone. He’d be up for stealing the car, driving without a license, probably DUI, speeding, running a red light and trying to avoid lawful arest(or whatever crime it is to not pull over) – so there’s a string of offences there – but is the outcome we’ve ended up with worth it?

It would seem that the whole raison d’être for the chase is that sooner or later the escapees driving ability or road or traffic conditions are going to see them come unstuck and an arrest can be effected. It’s like a crash of some sort is the inevitable logical consequence of the whole exercise.

Instead of making RIP Scumbag they made a “BAN ALL POLICE CHASES”…

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=106436369381466&ref=mf#!/group.php?v=wall&gid=106436369381466

Maybe if the cops kept chasing, the victims may have heard the sirens and been able to get out of the way before that shit stain ran into them with the car that he STOLE earlier.

Just a thought.

I can’t help but wonder what might have happened if the Police had not called off the chase. Could their their lights and sirens have warned these three poor people? Calling off police chases must end up encouraging escaping drivers to run red lights etc in order to get away from the Police. A no-win situation.

Tiiffany BliistOnerrhz Wedge R.I.P MULLY BRA YU WAS A TOP BLOKE AYY!!

A top bloke????

I think not. Try going to the other end of the spectrum…. Theives and murderers usually come under “Drop-kick” “loser” “scum” and many other names of that nature.

old canberran said :

This is not the first time a police pursuit has ended in tragedy and I guess it won’t be the last.
This time an innocent young couple just starting family life have been violently taken from their own relatives and friends. The police really have to answer the question whether the possible apprehension of a felon is worth this high price.

The Police have nothing to answer for, they were doing the job we require of them. In fairness they did call of the persuit before the incident.
Dirtbags who steal cars are the scum of the earth and deserve extremely harsh jail penalties when apprehended. This particular clown was a repeat offender! Perhaps if car thieves were to get 20 years in jail they would be less inclined to steal again.

Overall it is generally agreed that many of the penalties applied by the courts are totally insufficient.

I really feel for the Police and authorities that were called out to clear up this mess I also feel for the innocent family killed. I have contempt for the dead scumbag car thief.

WillowJim said :

Swaggie said :

As for the female passenger what was she doing there I wonder?

She was 17 years old and she’s on the verge of death. She broke no law. I’m sure she didn’t tell him to be a f-ckwit. Give her a break: teens make mistakes and she’s paying a heavier toll for hers than most of us do.

If the car was stolen she’s an accessory to a crime…

Last year Williams stole a car from Woden and then crashed into a tree. It was a single vehicle accident. It wasn’t a rotary, either…

I was horrified to learn of this incident. I don’t care whether the victims had any criminal history or not – what sickens me is the scum bag driver who killed them.

I have read all the posts on this subject and I’m pleased to see that the majority do not blame police.

There is a lot of rather stupid suggestions about how to stop a car in such a situation, I don’t know what the answer is to that conumdrum, but what I do know is that it is yet another case of people refusing to be accountable for their own actions (the fleeing driver).

So the piece of shit driving the stolen car was a repeat offender who had already been in hospital in a coma for a similar offence and crash? He should have been euthanised then and there!

Like the poster who advocated looking both ways before driving off from a green light, I always look both ways before crossing any set of traffic lights, whether I’m first at the white line or way back in the queue – you never know what idiot is going to drive through a red light. Could that simple precaution have avoided this incident? Maybe, maybe not, but if the unfortunate couple and their baby had seen the shitbag coming and not been hit, who knows where and what the uncaring anti-social shitbag would have ended up hitting.

Presumably the cops who gave pursuit were NSW – do they have authority to pursue someone in the ACT?

My understanding is that NSW Police officers based in Queanbeyan are “Sworn Special Constables” or sum such that means they can legally span a across both jurisdictions if the need arises. I’m guessing there would be Rioters here with a more accurate understanding on the intricasies of how that works, but suffice to say, they were entitled to be there.

dvaey said :

Maybe what we need are some boom gates at all red lights like a level-crossing, so that you know your passage through the green light wont be interrupted by anyone trying to run the red light.

Boom gates will only stop those who are already inclined to stop, the others will just go through them or around them – as some people do for rail crossings.

Swaggie said :

As for the female passenger what was she doing there I wonder?

She was 17 years old and she’s on the verge of death. She broke no law. I’m sure she didn’t tell him to be a f-ckwit. Give her a break: teens make mistakes and she’s paying a heavier toll for hers than most of us do.

Would you now be saying the police failed in their duty to apprehend him?

No, I wouldn’t. Was there anything else to your ‘argument’?

I Fail to see the logic in blaming the police and going so far as to “ban” pursuits. What does that say to all the other criminal maggots out there? “oh, I might rob this bank, then all i have to do is jump in my (stolen) car and the police cant do anything”. Woo Hoo!!!!! i am invincible in this car!!!!!

The police were doing what they are trained to do. What do people want them to do? Stand by and do nothing???

Next thing you know, the police wont even be able to handcuff criminals. “Oh no mr policeman those handcuffs are really hurting my wrists” Boo Hoo.

I really feel for the two officers involved in the unfortunate events on saturday night. The images that were seen by them will be burnt into their minds for life. And for what?? Some young asshole whose life was probably being supported by us…the taxpayers.

Here is Justins FB page…and of course its full of “great bloke” and “Didn’t deserve to die”.
http://www.facebook.com/fordskee?ref=ss#!/profile.php?v=wall&ref=sgm&id=100000420426695

farq said :

The procedures need to change, too many lives have been lost in pursuits like this one.

And, is anyone else sick of hearing ‘we terminated the pursuit just before the accident’? True or not, it’s the first thing we hear after a chase goes wrong. Just sounds like so much bullshit now.

No what I am sick of hearing is;

“We need to let the criminals get away with it.”

“If the POS criminal is caught the police did right, if anyone gets hurt the police did wrong.”

“Multiple conviction criminal driving stolen car kills people.”

Those are the sorts of things I’m sick of hearing.

In this case,following people screaming for ages that “the police should have backed off when chasing the criminal, the police f**king backed off, and still some want to blame them?!?!

fortyseven said :

Ian said :

Wow… so as a result of what happened she deserves to die? What occurred was an horrific tragedy but it isn’t like the two of them were out looking to smash into a family. Jeez, when did Canberra get so bloodthirsty, if she is involved then she should be charged appropriately.

Who knows what goes through these idiots minds. I am sure when they were trying to out run the police, they must have had some idea that there is a chance they could crash into another car, a tree or even a pedestrian.
And yes she should be charged accordingly, but I can bet you she wont be.

Malcolm_Powder said :

Terrible, Terrible news.
On my way to work this morning I purchased todays copy of the Daily Telegraph. Having already developed an opinion of the s**t stain driving the stolen car, my view of him was only further set in concrete after finding out that only 10 months ago he was given a second chance at life after crashing another stolen car. Scum like this bloke are the shit stains on the underpants of society. Car thieves are bad enough, but to steal a car and then kill an innocent family while running from the police…..Well to me, This arsehole deserved death, Because if he didnt die, going by his previous actions, the wanker probably would have stolen another car that some poor bugger had worked hard for.
Rot in hell you F**king Scumbag.

After seeing photos of the poor Oppelaar children, and the horrific amount of damage to the cars, my heart absolutely breaks, and I have to say I totally agree with you Malcolm_Powder.

“Minimum 20 years prison per person killed should be mandatory for any driver who causes a fatal crash whilst driving in a manner they they should have reasonably known was particularly dangerous/reckless, and/or with a BAC of .15 or over, and/or was the subject of a police pursuit at the time.”

I said this the other day in response to the Maserati idiot. Well advertised, and well enforced penalties such as this may curb the number of police pursuits in Australia’s roads.

Whilst I am not a fan of unecessary police pursuits. Banning them altogether though, as others are calling for, will mean criminals will know they just have to leg it to the nearest car and take off to evade police.

That said… surely the technology must exist that would allow Police to fire a GPS tracking device at any car then immediately stop the pursuit, or continue by helicopter. Of course, such technology would cost money. Government’s don’t like to spend money unless it makes them money or is cost beneficial. Remember we all have $$ value’s on our heads.

I am also definitely not a fan of the common claim “the pursuit was terminated moments before the crash.” Do the authorities think the population are idiots? Come on.

The media is reporting the event as “…Police were pursuing a stolen car…” No. They weren’t. Motor vehicles do not steal themselves. Motor vehicles do not drive themselves. Motor vehicles do not have personalities. Motor vehicles are inanimate machines, pieces of metal, until a human being sits in the drivers seat to control it.

Police were pusuing 23 year old lifetime criminal “Justin Williams”, who was driving a stolen car. “Justin Williams” is a murderer who killed an entire family in the process of trying to avoid facing the concequences for his wrong doing.

I hope Williams rots away where he belongs. I hope the inquest that will follow this tradegy also looks at how this “person” (I use the word lightly) no doubt slipped through the cracks of the system for the majority of his life. The fact that someone who clearly had *zero* regard for the lives of anybody else was allowed out on the street, is a concerning state of affairs to say the least.

Like many stories that hit the media, some bits don’t gel. Could be erroneous reporting, or people involved not being completely accurate.
Presumably the cops who gave pursuit were NSW – do they have authority to pursue someone in the ACT?
Where did they pursue the car? Where did the pursuit cease, and why? And when and where did the accident occur?
Unlike many here, I am not going to fill in the gaps with my own imaginings. But I do wonder about the holes in the story.

Word on the street is that Justin and his family knew Sam and Scott…Makes sense as to why the families are all blaming the police. I was a little stunned to see members of Scott’s family on the news, not even 24 hrs after the horrific accident, laying full blame on the police with not even a mention of Justin. If it turns out that that is correct, then what a horrible co-incidence.

Just want to run a couple of logical exercises here;

1 – If you increase the penalty for failing to stop when police signal to do so (i.e. flee when you see the flashing lights), does it not INCREASE the incentive to escape police, therefore the probability of fleeing?

2 – To use road spikes/blocks you need to be in front of the vehicle. How do you predict the location of the vehicle without following it? How do you follow without it escalating into a pursuit?

For “cranky” at comment 50 – You mean use the handbrake the way that the passenger allegedly did in the July 6th 2009 crash on Gundaroo Drive at Crace?

For those asking why we don’t shoot to stop the car – the passenger is your answer. Innocent until proven guilty.

Personally I regarded the comment that the “police had decided to halt the pursuit” with some cynicism when I first heard it. It was too familiar, and so quickly issued. But I guess the police are now used to the kind of backlash they’re seeing now from the Offenders Union (Cheers TP 3000, nice tag) so they need that information out there.

Thinking about it later, it does make sense – the police aren’t mindlessly running. They are aware that actions have consequences. They’re a second or so from the car in front, and can see the risks it is taking, and make judgments accordingly for themselves, and made the decision to stop themselves driving in a dangerous manner.

I accept that this does not likely mean they pulled over on the side of the road and said “shucks, he got away” – instead, they were likely still moving in the same direction as the offenders vehicle, but falling behind as they backed off the pace.

But they couldn’t stop the offenders car for them. Unfortunately – and through no fault of their own – that car kept RUNNING.

For those questioning the distance between the police’s decision to halt the pursuit and the accident scene, I simply ask this;

How far/how long do you think it would be between the police disengaging from a pursuit to the offender driving in a calm, aware, and safe manner?

buzz819 said :

Looking at the names of the people that were killed – I think the last thing that can really be said about them is that they are innocent – I’m just throwing it out there – I think Mr Opellaar had a bigger Crim History then Mr Williams…

Innocent at this time maybe…

I feel sorry for the 4 month old…

Well regardless of his character and history, he and his partner were innocent in this tragedy. They just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when lowlife scum Williams killed them.

As for the family blaming the police, I’d like to think its just grief causing them to lash out at someone. I’d like to think on reflection they do place the blame squarely on Williams where it belongs.

Have to say the families blaming the police, the 10 kids, and all that, brings to mind banjos and toothless grins.

I’m not sure what the answer is to the Police pursuit theory, I can see merit in both sides of the argument, but perhaps putting a wall around Queanbeyan might help…

http://www.afp.gov.au/media_releases/act/2010/juveniles_arrested_after_police_pursuit

Hello People, this was your family, so why are you failing to see who is at fault for this?
I just do not understand.
Do you think police were chasing Justin Williams when he crashed that other stolen car 10 months ago? Bet not!
Justin Williams was reckless and had NO regard for anyone else on Saturday night.
He stole a car, was speeding when police tried to pull him over and whats the bet if he wasn’t being chased by police he would have been speeding anyway.
I’m sure if Justin already broke the law doing these things, he wasn’t worried about stopping for a red light anyway.
Justin Williams Killed your family, he is the reason for your loss.
Speed kills, not the police, they stoped at the red light seeing the danger ahead, they did not hit your family with such a force it split their car in two.
The Police DID have to see Scott, Samantha and baby brody mashed up in their car, they didn’t deserve that.
I feel for the kids who have lost thier parents I feel for all relatives and friends of Scott, Samantha, little Brody and Justin.
I hope that skye makes it, and learns from her mistakes, because Justin sure didn’t and now he has lost his life taking 3 innocent people with him and causing grief to many.
I’m a year older then Justin and grow up in Queanbeyan and this is my opinion.

Tiiffany BliistOnerrhz Wedge R.I.P MULLY BRA YU WAS A TOP BLOKE AYY!!
YU WAS ND STILL ARE A WARRIOR JUST CANT BELIVE THIS RYT NOW! LOVE YA MUCHLY

Biianca Rasiic R.I.P iii cant believe i was just with yuu the other daii fuk the AFP

Lisa Watt mully u were to young to go but as they say only the ggod die young had’nt had the chance to talk to u on facebook but now i am all of my love goes to your family u will be missed by all fly free

Happy Crazzy You were my best mate, the maddest person and all in all a fckin awsome person, Justin “Mully” Williams I LOVE YOU BRO and am missing already already it pains me I will never see you again.

The procedures need to change, too many lives have been lost in pursuits like this one.

And, is anyone else sick of hearing ‘we terminated the pursuit just before the accident’? True or not, it’s the first thing we hear after a chase goes wrong. Just sounds like so much bullshit now.

buzz819 said :

Looking at the names of the people that were killed – I think the last thing that can really be said about them is that they are innocent – I’m just throwing it out there – I think Mr Opellaar had a bigger Crim History then Mr Williams…

Innocent at this time maybe…

I feel sorry for the 4 month old…

And you know this….how?

buzz819 said :

I think Mr Opellaar had a bigger Crim History then Mr Williams…

Care to back that statement with something other than your thoughts?

My heart goes out to the families of the victims, a true tragedy.

As for the fleeing driver, one less shitbag stealing valuable oxygen, he had already lived 23 years too long.

If the passenger is unfortunate enough to survive she will have this on her conscious the rest of her life, a passenger could quite easily take action to slow the vehicle such as using the handbrake or attacking the driver. That she did not MAKES HER GUILTY of doing nothing to prevent this horrible event. If she does survive it would be best to ensure she is not pregnant with the offspring of shitbag then sterilise her just to be sure.

The problem with pursuits is police dont have the authority to do anything other than follow. In an area such as the one where the pursuit took place the police should have been able to ram the vehicle off the road. Should the offender have attempted to flee, open fire. INNOCENT PEOPLE DO NOT RUN. Clearly this is not always an option due to close proximity to the general public but what is a few written off cars compared to innocent lives lost.

As for what to do with offenders after the fact, cut their f#cking hands off. Then lets see them steal a car. Stick them in gaol for a minimum of 10 years, where they can use their still functioning legs to ride a exercise bike each every day until they have served there 10 years or paid back the cost to society of any and all damages from their actions via feeding electricity in to the grid, whichever is greater. Like most punishments handed down to criminals the ACT would be still seen as lenient because our feed-in tariff is much more generous than other areas.

To the police involved, I hope you have the opportunity in your career to make enough of a difference to society to make up for the suffering that you have endured and will continue to endure. You were doing your job and know that the majority of the population support what you do.

To the parents of the driver, shame. The combination of your genetic materials is clearly defective, please cease all activities of pro-creation and do the decent thing and invite the rest of your kids together for a BBQ so you can poison them all. It’s the least you could do.

buzz819 said :

Looking at the names of the people that were killed – I think the last thing that can really be said about them is that they are innocent – I’m just throwing it out there – I think Mr Opellaar had a bigger Crim History then Mr Williams…

Innocent at this time maybe…

I feel sorry for the 4 month old…

Some of you guys are just right wing loonies! Are we now saying that people who have been on the wrong side of the justice system in the past, deserve to die in horror accidents because they have been rendered permanently “not inocent?”

Give me a fucking break!

Looney!

High speed chases like this, and a number of similar crashes are part of the reason why everytime I travel through a green light, I always look both ways to make sure no vehicle (whether police or maybe a pursued vehicle) isnt travelling through a red light completely oblivious to me. Maybe what we need are some boom gates at all red lights like a level-crossing, so that you know your passage through the green light wont be interrupted by anyone trying to run the red light.

It was only on Wednesday that another similar (but fortunately lower speed) accident happened when a police vehicle travelled through a red light and was involved in an accident, and as always its always someone elses fault. How old were we, when we were taught to look both ways before crossing the street? Especially when youre crossing a major road, with your baby in the car at night.

Ok, WMC, and what now if we were discussing the deaths of the couple and the child, following the police not giving chase to this piece of shit as he had rammed them while showing off to the girl in the car with him?

Would you now be saying the police failed in their duty to apprehend him?

The police are in a lose:lose situation, damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Looking at the names of the people that were killed – I think the last thing that can really be said about them is that they are innocent – I’m just throwing it out there – I think Mr Opellaar had a bigger Crim History then Mr Williams…

Innocent at this time maybe…

I feel sorry for the 4 month old…

The Mazda 626 that this 23 year old was driving was stolen, and he fail to pull over for an RBT, And what no worries just let him go??

Yep. Your way has four people dead. My way has somebody putting in an insurance claim to NRMA. Explain to me again how your way is better than my way?

The chase apparently went on for ‘several minutes’. Imagine you’re the cops. This guy has just fled. You fire up the lights and sirens and tear after him.

Now count thirty seconds. Go on, count it. It’s a long time.

So the guy in front still hasn’t stopped. No sign whatsoever of stopping, he. How strange. What odd behaviour for a criminal who’s already demonstrated utter disregard for police authority.

Now count another thirty seconds. Another thirty seconds of the guy in front not showing any sign of slowing down. Maybe you start to ask yourself what it’s going to take to make him stop. Or maybe you just keep tearing after him because he has some stolen property and / or failed the attitude test and what’s the worst that could happen?

Repeat another few times (seriously, count the seconds). At what point do you say “Gee, this wreckless law breaker doesn’t seem to be affected by my +3 Flashing Lights of Sirenness? As my comrades have pointed out in this thread, I don’t have a hope in hell of actually stopping him. Maybe I should’ve let him go after the first thirty seconds when it became clear the lights and sirens weren’t going to work. Sure, he’ll get away, but maybe my bruised ego and the cost of filing an insurance claim aren’t nearly as important as the risk these guys will kill themselves or, Darwin help us, somebody else.” But it’s too late, now, because he’s run a red light at a suburban intersection.

Well, we certainly weren’t going to let him go for failing to stop or fleeing the scene or speeding or stealing a car, but a red light? Game over, chaps. I mean, it’s the first time he’s actually demonstrated that he’ll drive in a way that could kill somebody, but now is when we have to stop and let him get away. And all of you bleating “ooh, if we let them off without a chase they’ll just run” – it seems they only need to find THE NEAREST RED LIGHT AND THEY’LL GET AWAY ANYHOW.

So, let’s wrap it up. We have to make the police chase them because they’ll get away if we don’t and…something something something, death of society as we know it. Except the poor police can’t force them to stop, because this isn’t the US and they don’t have choppers and Mad Max-esque road tasers. And they can’t chase them through a red light. So the offenders get away anyway, but we’ve drastically increased the risk of a deadly crash and writing off the precious car. Yep, concrete system we have going here.

In case anybody thinks I’m slagging off the police, I’m not. It seems they’re obliged to give chase, and we’d give them grief if they didn’t. Wouldn’t it be nice if they weren’t, and we didn’t have the poor bastards lying awake at night rationalising “it was totally the driver’s fault, I followed procedure” on the one hand, but plagued niggling, gut-wrenching doubt on the other? Oh, and three innocent people dead for a car that got written off anyway.

buzz819 said :

Tony said :

what ever happened to tyre spikes, or shooting the tyres out, or shooting dangerous people??

Above is a good list about the tyre spikes, plus, you need a car in front of the fleeing vehicle, A fast run from that NSW border to where the crash happened can take less than a few minutes.

Shooting out tyres? Seriously have you ever shot a gun? You want Police to start shooting at moving cars? Are you stupid?

Shooting dangerous people… I like this, do Police just have to suspect, believe that the person is dangerous to shoot them?

Yeah, Ive shoot guns. Shooting tyres is not unheard of. http://bit.ly/aCXblT
I know it would be hard. Sure you might miss or hit the driver, but so f* what; whatever it takes to stop these sh*ts before they kill innocent people.

Its pretty safe to assume that a stolen car being driven at high speeds, in a dangerous manner, which has also refused to stop for policy is not innocent.

It’s incredibly disapponting to see even relatives of the young family who were killed trying to lay the bulk of the blame on the police. Mr Oppelaar’s brother is quoted in today’s CT as saying that he feels that the blame lies “partly” with the idiot in the stolen car, but “mostly” with the cops.

I know the guy is grieving for his brother, and is probably trying to make sense of what’s happened, but seriously, WTF??

The police are in a complete no-win situation in these instances. If they made no attempt to pursue, and the waste-of-oxygen car thief had taken somebody out anyway, I’m sure the same people now bleating for an end to police pursuit would be whining about how the coppers should have done something to stop the guy when they had the chance and accusing them of being lazy and incompetent.

For those saying a roadblock or spikes would have been more efficient and safer, a question for you: How are the police supposed to know where to set up roadblocks/spikes unless they have a car following the fleeing vehicle?

Talk of helicopters, satnav tracking, car-killing zappers is all well and good, but the simple fact is that our police DON’T have these resources available to them. They have to make-do with what they have in the real world.

The responsibility for what happened on Saturday, not just “partly” or even “mostly”, but ENTIRELY lies with Justin Williams.

On the topic of how to avoid tragedies like this happening, I’ve read nothing but retarded suggestions from shooting out tyres to giant car-stopping tasers. You people who obviously watch too much TV. There are no solutions. Public roads are and will always be dangerous places.

On another point, it seems to be standard police protocol in these instances to claim that the pursuit “had just been terminated” prior to the fatal collision. They said the exact same thing after an infant was killed by a stolen vehicle in Western Sydney around the start of the year. It’s almost impossible to prove exactly when and if a pursuit was terminated, and the police know it.

Face rage, sorry page already formed to the Oppelaar family. Seems to setting the blame on the cops.

Terrible, Terrible news.
On my way to work this morning I purchased todays copy of the Daily Telegraph. Having already developed an opinion of the s**t stain driving the stolen car, my view of him was only further set in concrete after finding out that only 10 months ago he was given a second chance at life after crashing another stolen car. Scum like this bloke are the shit stains on the underpants of society. Car thieves are bad enough, but to steal a car and then kill an innocent family while running from the police…..Well to me, This arsehole deserved death, Because if he didnt die, going by his previous actions, the wanker probably would have stolen another car that some poor bugger had worked hard for.
Rot in hell you F**king Scumbag.

An investigation is underway into the incident but the head of the New South Wales Council for Civil Liberties, Cameron Murphy, says a national policy needs to be developed concerning police pursuits.

“I think we need to stop them until the police organise a way to do car chases safely,” he said.

“The problem at the moment is that police are balancing the need to apprehend a suspect with the lives of innocent people when they should be putting the lives of innocent people first.”

There are some people who need a brick hammer taking to them, to knock some sense into them, Cameron Murphy just made the list.

It was the second time Williams had had an accident driving a stolen car. Last May, he was left in a coma after crashing a stolen car at Bungendore, The Daily Telegraph reports. He was still before the courts on disqualified driving offences after the May crash.

No doubt the useless P.O.S. had a legion of social workers fluttering around him making sure that we, and not he, pay the cost of his brutal stupidity. These deaths are the end result of their hard work.

“Hello people”, lemme get this straight. The deceased couple Scott Oppelaar and Samantha Ford had 7 children between them? And Justin “Extreme Douche” Williams had 3 himself? Scary.

CraigT said :

If there is a secondary culprit here, it is the magistrate who allowed this habitual car thief to strike again…

+1

Leniency doesn’t work.

urchin said :

Harsher penalties for stealing a vehicle, simple as that.

And you think that would discourage people from fleeing when they are pulled over in a stolen vehicle? I fail to see the logic…

Mind you, I am in favour of the ACT actually imprisoning people for crimes and imposing penalties commensurate with the severity of the crime. Seems like magistrates here will bend over backwards to avoid making anyone actually pay for their misdeeds. Sentencing in the ACT is a joke.

Fact is if there was harsher penalties, chances are he would be in remand for previous driving offences that saw him in a coma – and therefore unable to offend again.

I love it how everyone tells police how to do their job, yet, are not prepared to be police thelselves.

being a copper is already a prick of a job, I bet it must suck a millionfold more when the average jo blow comes out and tells them how to do their job.

Fact is the cops called off teh chase, the person in the wrong here is the person who ran 2 red lights, not the police trying to go about their job.

Mr Oppelaar’s cousin, Jason Kelly, said: ”I purely blame police for it. He’s getting chased and that’s what young people do. They get scared and they take off,” he told reporters.

How about taking some responsibility for your actions, not running away?

hello people said :

The QBN police have a lot to answer for, they helped cause these deaths

How do you know ?! Who is not to say that the car would have sped that fast anyway ?

http://www.news.com.au/national/police-stopped-chase-before-fatal-crash/comments-e6frfkvr-1225843411620

JUST ten months ago, disqualified driver Justin Williams woke from a coma after crashing a stolen car.

Now he’s dead after another horror smash, which also killed a family of three.

He’s a serial pest. Good riddance. Poor innocent family.

hello people. I feel your loss, but if continue to balme anyone but Justine then what does that say about you? You want the don’tpolice to never try and catch crims? Please accept that people have to take responsibility for their actions.

Apparently the police did terminate the pursuit.
Clearly, doing what the civil liberties nongs suggest and terminating pursuits causes deaths.

If there is a secondary culprit here, it is the magistrate who allowed this habitual car thief to strike again by:

1/ Not locking him up for his prior offences

2/ Not gaoling him for his outstanding car-theft charges

It’s time magistrates were forced to bear professional personal responsibility for letting criminals walk our streets with predictable results.

As far as car thieves go, the police policy should be to give car thieves a public whipping on stocks installed for the purpose across the road from the Uni Bar.

Justin Williams: A 23yo career crim, who was involved in a car crash 10 months earlier.

As sure as night follows day, there will be a government sponsered memorial built at the crash site for the scum and his g/f

Tony said :

what ever happened to tyre spikes, or shooting the tyres out, or shooting dangerous people??

Above is a good list about the tyre spikes, plus, you need a car in front of the fleeing vehicle, A fast run from that NSW border to where the crash happened can take less than a few minutes.

Shooting out tyres? Seriously have you ever shot a gun? You want Police to start shooting at moving cars? Are you stupid?

Shooting dangerous people… I like this, do Police just have to suspect, believe that the person is dangerous to shoot them?

Some Comments that have been made on here make no sense what so ever.
I fail to see how this was at all at the fault of the police, what is wrong with people.
The Mazda 626 that this 23 year old was driving was stolen, and he fail to pull over for an RBT, And what no worries just let him go??
What are you saying people that steal cars, or have no regard for others shouldn’t be caught??
This Man whilst young, knew he was doing the wrong thing and wasn’t at all worried about anyone else in this world.

Now we are going to lay the blame on the police!!
Look people, none of as know what this guy was thinking as he speed up Canberra av flying past our locals, people you may very well know, but I’m sure there wasn’t a thought about anyone he was passing or approching….. but the cops I’m sure whilst thinking they wanted to get this Jerk off the road were thinking about the people on the street, thats why they were chasing this guy in the first place.
If this guy stole a car, whats to say he wasn’t drinking, whats to say he wasn’t going to speed anyway, we needed him off our roads the police understood that.

This man killed people, a family, a baby it was not the police.
The police who were in pursuits of this guy, are the ones that have to live with these images for the rest of thier lives they do not deserve that.

The person responsible for all this is that 23 year old, that is all.
He stole the car,(breaking the law) He failed to pull over for an rbt(breaking the law) He fled from police(breaking the law). Do you really think he would have been driving safe if police wont chasing him, that he wouldn’t have speed anyway??
My heart goes out to everyone involved in this, it is so so sad.

alright, i didnt get through them all, but i would like to say something as a member of THE INNOCENT FAMILY KILLED’s family. The QBN police have a lot to answer for, they helped cause these deaths, yes the driver shouldnt have stole the car or been in the chase, but seriously there are now 10 children who lost a parent last night, that baby boy was 3days short of 3mth old and is dead because some stupid car and a need to make an arrest, the mother also had 3 other young children who were thankfuly not with her – they have lost their mummy and baby brother because of some stupid car and a need to make an arrest, the father also had 4 other children, and he might have done wrong, but the driver of the other car also had 3 small children who lost their daddy. Im sure that ACT has some law about ceasing a high speed chase once it reaches a certin speed, the red light where they claim to have halted the chase was less than 100meters from the accident and 6kms from the NSW border. Nothing can bring our loved ones back, but the police need to stop putting our lives at risk and helping fatalaties just over some stupid bloody car and to make an arrest!!!

Just posted on the net about an hour ago.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/police-blamed-for-horror-crash/story-e6frg6n6-1225843506056

Some more info from The Australian on this incident, seems the driver of the stolen car had form. Will be interested to know what RiotACT have heard (in relation to the edit at the start of the opening article)…

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/police-blamed-for-horror-crash/story-e6frg6n6-1225843506056

Ian said :

You are clearly more forgiving than me. I take the view that if you hang out with scum, you get what you deserve ultimately. She may have been terrified, but I doubt very much she was in the car against her will and without knowledge of the boyfriend’s criminal propensities.

Wow… so as a result of what happened she deserves to die? What occurred was an horrific tragedy but it isn’t like the two of them were out looking to smash into a family. Jeez, when did Canberra get so bloodthirsty, if she is involved then she should be charged appropriately.

I agree that the penalty for fleeing the police should be increased. If you make the penalty for fleeing higher than the penalty for stealing a car crooks will be more likely to give in rather than risk much harsher penalties for fleeing the police.

I really feel for the police and ambos who attend these type of accidents, they would need counselling after such a horiffic scene.

There are so many arguments relating to the fact that if you don’t pursue, it sends the message that it’s Okay to steel cars and give chase!

That needn’t be the case! Firstly, why doesn’t the justice system throw custodial sentences at not only car thieves but also those found to be driving in an overtly wreckless manner! If I walked down Canberra Avenue at 2 Am, firing a licenced handgun into the air, I really should expect to go to jail! Some young prick in his stupid looking piece of hotted up Japanese shit, could drive down Canberra Ave at 200 Km/h, get caught and subsequently get a fine. Which act is more likely to endanger the lives of inocent people? That’s not hard!

We need to let these wankers know that if they act like little pinhead pricks, the consequences will be more than a hot babe on a billboard thinking that they have a small dick! We need to let them know that they are going to fucking jail for couple of years. We actually need to build a traffic speciffic jail!

In the meantime, the police need to work out more intelligent strategies for apprehending drivers who give chase – I’m still with road blocks and if necessary armed response! By armed response, I don’t mean a traffic officer’s Gloch but marksmen positioned at roadblocks, carrying accurate weapons, loaded with low velocity projectiles and using training that prevents the discharge of a weapon if it might endanger the public in any way!

These methods may not be as effective as pursuit in terms of catching bad guys. However, the death of one inocent person is one too many! There have been far too many such incidents and I seriously think that it’s time to re-think strategies and put some alternatives in place while the best solution is being sought!

I personally don’t condemn the police for doing their job. I just think that it’s time for them to think things over! Some of the arguments here are a little like someone saying “so a few babies are born with little arms, that’s the price we must pay; Thelidomide stops pregnant women from puking in the morning!” As a civilised society, we are able to alter practices that have a far more catastrophic result than that which they are designed to remedy!

To argue that we live in a big modern city and we have to accept such consequences sounds like a bit of grandstanding from those who are acutely aware that they live in a big country town! People in Sydney and Melbourne don’t accept this kind of irresponsibillity, why should Canberra?

Basically we have a choice of living in a society in which possibly a greater percentage of car thieves get away whilst the authorities pursue a better solution or living in a society in which inocent families die for the sake of catching a car thief! I’m pretty sure I know what the relatives of the dead family would choose!

I agree, fuck the piece of shit who did this! He got what he deserved, but I’d rather he’d got away if it meant that little baby and his mum and dad surviving!

Ian

that was really harsh to say you hope the young girl dies, I feel sorry for all the families who are left to pick up the pieces of this horrible tragedy

I wonder were there any witness’s at the time of the fatal accident.

I wish there was a speed limit on cars, that would not go over a certain limit.
I truy believe that high speed chashers are dangerous, surely the police could radio ahead for another police car to cut the offender off or have a helicopper monitor the affending vehicle, I know this would be expensive, but when it comes to saying lives, cost doen’t come into it.

as tragic as this has ended banning police pursuits isn’t going to help on friday there was another across border pursuit involving 5 teenage girls that end without incident I myself witness a pursuit through page/scullin the week before that I can only assume end without incident as there’s no news coverage but involved a hell of alot of police cars/motorcycles that day could of ended tragically as well the ute that pulled out infront of me narrowly escaped being collected by the offender’s vehicle and either of us were aware of the pursuit as police just had light no sirens.

My heart goes out the the innocent victims family and friends the police and emergency services who attended accident site as this will haunt them for life, as for the driver and passengers family and friends he did not pay the price for his crime life in prison with the guilt following him everyday would have been better sorry for your loss but I have no sympathy unfortunately.

Actually junkett I was holding my tongue but I know there are just as many speed junkies trying to get away against the law as there are chasing in the name of law….in other words COP COWBOYS chasing for the thrill and I’m not saying these guys were but I’m saying PLENTY do- it’s not like their job is soooo great they are BEYOND the law ….

“Career criminal” Justin Williams and Skye Webb were in the stolen car.

Tony said :

what ever happened to […] shooting the tyres out

Ahahahahaha

georgesgenitals said :

Kat40 said :

The bastard has just been named on Channel 7 new, along with his 17 year old female passenger. To the family of the victims (the three innocent people in the car), my heart goes out to you, this is such a devastating thing to happen to you.

Anyone found a link with the new information?

Embedded video, currently at the bottom of this page:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/

Driver identified as Justin Williams, pax identified as Sky(e) Webb.

We are a small area. ‘Escaping’ from one area of Canberra/Qbn to another will almost invariably involve travelling on one of about a dozen main roads.

How about permanent road spike launching sites on these roads? Remotely controlled from AFP Headquarters.

Even if the clowns knew the location, they would still need to traverse the area to ‘escape’.

“If the police are there to protect us …if history tells us high speed pursuits usually end in disaster best to let them go and try another method of pursuit.”

I’d suggest you stop relying on channel 7/9/10 for your wealth of knowledge. I’m sure the coppers chase a lot more crooks than we hear about without your overly excited “usually ending in disaster” bleat. We don’t hear about the crooks they caught without injury because tragedy sells more commercial air time than success.

As per your “alternate methods of pursuit” – We’re a small area, mate. The ACT, Queanbeyan and surrounds don’t rate in politics land. Unless our local tinpot John Nohope puts a French mural on the side I doubt anyone will give the ACT coppers dosh for a copper-chopper.

Forget the chase/don’t chase debate. Coppers are young blokes for the most part. They’d love chasing crooks and so they should. Our thoughts SHOULD be with the innocent dead, they must be in a very sad and confused place right now.

Nick Sundance said :

http://tinyurl.com/yc9uy9d

Very interesting point. Stupidity being the main point of this, let me ask this, if no police were involved and chasing, would he have still gone on to hurt someone else, if not the poor family he took out anyway?

The point you make Nick strengthened the question that was in the back of my mind anyway, so thanks.

http://tinyurl.com/yc9uy9d

bigfeet said :

cranky said :

A further thought.

Are NSW Police cars so slow that they couldn’t catch a Mazda 626 between crossing the border and the Hindmarsh Drive intersection?

Catching up with a car and making that car actually stop are two entirely different things.

Thank you, you said what I was thinking.

Coupled with the fact the police have to make these decision on the spot, they are required to attempt to stop these criminals are they not? So commencing pursuit would be the right decision, then it becomes dangerous, call it off, however, the police stopping doesn’t mean peanut behind the wheel of stolen car is going to automatically, hence we have here what has happened.

This is a huge tragedy, massive, and I feel for the families of those who were lost.

If the police don’t pursue to some degree, wouldn’t that mean peanuts can steal the car and have a much better chance of getting away with it? Longer prospective sentences or not? And if the police don’t pursue then how the hell are they supposed to track the vehicle so they can stop it with other means, we don’t have police choppers flying around like other cities all the time.

There are no real answers here, all possible solutions lead to some sort of risk, sad fact. This time it killed, really sad fact.

zig said :

Nasty accident.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225843373953?page=1

May the innocent victims rest in peace.
May the killer get his grave pissed on.

I wouldn’t waste a good piss… I feel for the coppers and the family of the innocent victims. As for the family of the driver how dare you blame the police.

Probably just a bogan who’s been playing PS3 type games for years running red lights in Grand Theft Auto and thought real life was just as easy.

Don’t normally wish ill of the dead but in this toerag’s case I’ll make an exception.

I-filed said :

Ian said :

As for his girlfriend, I initially thought hope she dies too, and gets what she deserves. Now I’m feeling maybe there’d be better justice if she is just seriously maimed, and left as a reminder to her family and friends as to what a dickhead she was.

How long before friends/family of the dead scum and his girlfriend come on here to defend them and blame the police? (waits for semi-literate, punctuation free rants to commence …)

If I’ve quoted the accidentally-attributed-to-Pommy-Bastard quote of Ian’s correctly here – I cannot believe this comment, “Ian”. You are the low-life here. You don’t know whether this girl was anything other than terrified throughout. She probably was. I hope she recovers fully and I wish her well.

You are clearly more forgiving than me. I take the view that if you hang out with scum, you get what you deserve ultimately. She may have been terrified, but I doubt very much she was in the car against her will and without knowledge of the boyfriend’s criminal propensities.

You may want to call me a low life but at least my ill-wishes towards the girl will never do the same damage as the crimes she took part in with her scum boyfriend.

what ever happened to tyre spikes, or shooting the tyres out, or shooting dangerous people??

Kat40 said :

The bastard has just been named on Channel 7 new, along with his 17 year old female passenger. To the family of the victims (the three innocent people in the car), my heart goes out to you, this is such a devastating thing to happen to you.

Anyone found a link with the new information?

Im a country member said :

Don’t the police realise that the chase provides the biggest thrill for these morons!

Loooooong custodial sentences will deter some of them but not all!

Those that it doesn’t deter are no hopers! Pursuits will only end in carnage as they don’t have the cognitive capacity to understand consequences!

Pursuits rarely end in the offender being aprehended without impact! The practice needs to stopped! Decent roadblock strategies are far more effective; this sould include the use of spikes!

Road blocks should also be deployed in a such a manner that an armed response unit can shoot to kill! I have no sympathy for these offenders!

What a load of rubbish and a simplistic unrealistic view. A significant amount of pursuits end in crashes due to the speeds involved, veryfew end in impacts that result in death. Shooting to kill would be good at short range, what if a bullet missed and hit an innocent bystander?

They mentioned the name of the offenders on Seven news, typical career criminal with no licence and his 18 year old companion.

Im a country member said :

Don’t the police realise that the chase provides the biggest thrill for these morons!

Loooooong custodial sentences will deter some of them but not all!

Those that it doesn’t deter are no hopers! Pursuits will only end in carnage as they don’t have the cognitive capacity to understand consequences!

Pursuits rarely end in the offender being aprehended without impact! The practice needs to stopped! Decent roadblock strategies are far more effective; this sould include the use of spikes!

Road blocks should also be deployed in a such a manner that an armed response unit can shoot to kill! I have no sympathy for these offenders!

Yes they do, what so fun at driving at high speeds chasing a car, i think not.
How do you know this?

Roadblocks wont work, spikes dont work all the time as cars drive at Police. In NSW a HWY patrol officer died.

Its sad to see the loss of life but what makes me angry is when people blaim Police. Its is not there fault, its their job.

I read that we have the Offenders Union, oops I mean to say Civil Libertarians calling for an end to high speed pursuits (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/03/21/2851879.htm).

A solution could hidden speed humps in the road. If you go over that speed hump at the posted speed limit, be it 110k’s or 40k’s your car will be fine. However if you drive at 50k’s in a 40k zone, severe damage would occur to your vechile & with speeds 20k’s over the posted speed limit your car would suffer so much damage it wouldn’t make it 1m past the speed hump. These could be placed every 50m.

bigfeet said :

cranky said :

A further thought.

Are NSW Police cars so slow that they couldn’t catch a Mazda 626 between crossing the border and the Hindmarsh Drive intersection?

Catching up with a car and making that car actually stop are two entirely different things.

Exactly. We don’t use the PIT manoeuvre in this country and it’s not always possible to use stop sticks.

Im a country member said :

Don’t the police realise that the chase provides the biggest thrill for these morons!

Loooooong custodial sentences will deter some of them but not all!

Your first two lines completly contracdict each other. On one hand you are saying the chase gives the morons a thrill (and hence police should not enter into a chase), then you talk about long custodial sentences. I have to beg the question if you don’t chase these idiots how can you lock them up. If there was a blanket law that said no chases, then any criminal would know straight away they could hoon it and not get caught.

Whilst of course this is a tragedy and sympathies to the family, bottom line is it is a simple fact of life of the big world we live in. People can and will make mistakes. In this case though it would seem the only mistake made was by the idiot driving the car. Laying blame at the police, or government (especially Stanhope in this case) is pretty stupid.

Im a country member said :

Pursuits rarely end in the offender being aprehended without impact! The practice needs to stopped! Decent roadblock strategies are far more effective; this sould include the use of spikes!

End pursuits and you give the green light to any crook who wants to flee a crime scene.

The stolen car was a 626 turbo, a surprisingly quick jigger.

The police called off the chase at the previous intersection – I assume Newcastle St. They would still have had lights flashing down the hill to the scene of the fatality.

I’m waiting for the Facebook ‘Sh!tbag was the best bloke and the coppers killed him’ tribute page to start.

Bigfeet @ 52.

This being a world wide problem, perhaps a method of disabling a vehicle by a Police vehicle along side/ immediately behind should have a high priority among the Police/scientific/mechanical engineering circles.

Perhaps a vehicle ‘super Tazer’ which wipes out the vehicle’s electrical system, (probably rattling the drivers teeth at the same time), but I suspect this would only work on current computer driven vehicles. Mazda 626’s of the vintage involved would be practically invincible! Unless the Super Tazer also deranged the driver sufficiently to cause a stop.

I have the answer… and it’s radical… adopt the American way of doing things, each highway vehicle has nudge bars and introduce the pit maneuver. They would have been able to perform this on Canberra Avenue between Queanbeyan and Fyshwick no doubt, thus stopping the pursuit much quicker!!

p1 said :

More speed cameras would stop this from happening. Or not.

The pursuit in question ran the red light westbound at the corner of Canberra Avenue and Hindmarsh Drive. Straight through a red light/speed camera. The car was stolen, so cameras would do nothing in this instance.

cranky said :

A further thought.

Are NSW Police cars so slow that they couldn’t catch a Mazda 626 between crossing the border and the Hindmarsh Drive intersection?

Catching up with a car and making that car actually stop are two entirely different things.

Don’t the police realise that the chase provides the biggest thrill for these morons!

Loooooong custodial sentences will deter some of them but not all!

Those that it doesn’t deter are no hopers! Pursuits will only end in carnage as they don’t have the cognitive capacity to understand consequences!

Pursuits rarely end in the offender being aprehended without impact! The practice needs to stopped! Decent roadblock strategies are far more effective; this sould include the use of spikes!

Road blocks should also be deployed in a such a manner that an armed response unit can shoot to kill! I have no sympathy for these offenders!

Did the female passenger realise that that lever below her right elbow, if pulled, would slow the vehicle?

Themadkats said :

Wow Old Canberran, “apprehension of a felon”. Guess I missed it when the Australian legal system was replaced with re-runs of CSI Miami. There is no such thing as a felon in Austalian law. We have “criminals” who commit “crimes”. Just to be on the safe side, it is 000 not 911 in an emergency. Felon is popping up on news site comments and on the TV a lot lately.

Actually themadkats we used to have felons (waaaaayyyy back in the 80’s if my memory serves me correctly). One of the reasons for a legitimate discharge of firearms was “to shoot a fleeing felon”. I think (and someone can tell me otherwise)that the term went out when the Crimes Act was codified. In the Crimes Act 1900 anything that had a penalty of 12 mths or more imprisonment was deemed to be a felony and anything under was a misdemeanor. But we definitely don’t have ‘perps’ or ‘unsubs’!

And this is OT but the other thing that’s creeping in the media is “armed police”. Duh. Police carry firearms. They ARE armed.

http://www.cla.asn.au/Article/2009/clea%20code%200811.pdf

goes back to the case of Clea Rose, who was killed in civic by an underage drug affected kid being pursued by the cops.

but honestly, why is it necessary to chase these hoons? its just what they want. it seems its consequences far outweigh any benefit lately…

I’m not sure I entirely understand why some commenters apparently believe that “Extremely poor choice in boyfriends” should be a heinous crime punishable by death. I’m sure that there’s more than a few women around who are glad that one’s not on the books yet.

The driver who was fleeing paid the ultimate price but the family he killed were the tragedy
waiting to happen and the young officers in pursuit will have to live with the fact for the rest of their lives. Speed Kills the road signs tell us and even an ambulance will slow down
if need arises in an emergency. If hostages are taken the police are told to hold their fire to ensure the safety of civilians. It is all about judgment. Laws are broken, that is something that will never change but rather than blame anyone society has to help
change the rules so innocent civilians are given highest priority in the event of a disaster regardless of the origin. If the police are there to protect us then as well as safeguarding themselves they must safeguard the community and if history tells us high speed pursuits usually end in disaster best to let them go and try another method of pursuit.

Nasty accident.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gallery/gallery-e6frewxi-1225843373953?page=1

May the innocent victims rest in peace.
May the killer get his grave pissed on.

A further thought.

Are NSW Police cars so slow that they couldn’t catch a Mazda 626 between crossing the border and the Hindmarsh Drive intersection?

Snarky #27 makes sense.

How to stop this behaviour? I would lay money that this ar3sehole was on a bond, or on bail, without a license, and has almost certainly a criminal history. And is not in gaol as a result of our ‘look after the crim’ judicial system.

I look forward to the day that our judges are able to recognise that even a second appearance before them is a clarion call that the crim is NOT going to quickly change their ways, and further damage to the community is almost guaranteed when they walk free.

Do-gooders point to the rare cases where ‘3 strikes, your in’ laws have caused angst, but basically, the system will remove a large number of the habitual criminal from society.

We can only live in hope.

A terrible tragedy but it’s not fault of the Police. People are quick to blame them for initially chasing them but most forget that these idiots who flee or drag race etc are the ones to blame for innocent people being killed…not the Police who are just doing their job.

Don’t forget there was a female passenger with the driver who could have told him to stop, slow down or just pull over. Now she has to live with the fact she was also responsible for the death of three innocent people and one stupid person.

Ian said :

As for his girlfriend, I initially thought hope she dies too, and gets what she deserves. Now I’m feeling maybe there’d be better justice if she is just seriously maimed, and left as a reminder to her family and friends as to what a dickhead she was.

How long before friends/family of the dead scum and his girlfriend come on here to defend them and blame the police? (waits for semi-literate, punctuation free rants to commence …)

If I’ve quoted the accidentally-attributed-to-Pommy-Bastard quote of Ian’s correctly here – I cannot believe this comment, “Ian”. You are the low-life here. You don’t know whether this girl was anything other than terrified throughout. She probably was. I hope she recovers fully and I wish her well.

bd84 said :

and the penaties should reflect this. Manditory 5 years for pursuit with no serious injuries and minimum of 25 years for killing an innocent bystander.

25 years for every person killed.

The bastard has just been named on Channel 7 new, along with his 17 year old female passenger. To the family of the victims (the three innocent people in the car), my heart goes out to you, this is such a devastating thing to happen to you.

p1 said :

More speed cameras would stop this from happening. Or not.

How ?

Nick D, she was only given time after committing another drug related crime whilst on a good behaviour bond. These people make me sick, I am not sorry the bastard who killed this family is dead, I will however be the first to protest when the media starts portraying him as a young, poor, misunderstood young man(they usually do). He is a felon, pure and simple. I am going to hold judgement on his female passenger until we find out if she knew it was a stolen car…he may have stolen it and picked her up.

Harsher penalties for stealing a vehicle, simple as that.

Yup, Grand Theft Auto, Level 1 Felony in the USA

Interesting how these police chases always seem to have been called off just moments before the disaster happens.

Really, really sad. I’d say the police did all they reasonably could. At least the piece of shit who caused this isn’t around to do it again.

More speed cameras would stop this from happening. Or not.

Wow Old Canberran, “apprehension of a felon”. Guess I missed it when the Australian legal system was replaced with re-runs of CSI Miami. There is no such thing as a felon in Austalian law. We have “criminals” who commit “crimes”. Just to be on the safe side, it is 000 not 911 in an emergency. Felon is popping up on news site comments and on the TV a lot lately.

Harsher penalties for stealing a vehicle, simple as that.

Thats smart, it just makes them run faster.

We cant stop these dickheads, WE need to be more awaire while driving to avoid them, ask any motorcyclist for advice on avoiding road using dickheads.

how long before the bogan hoon’s family or mates hop on and attempt to defend him or tell what a great guy he is/was…bullsh#t

better off without him, shame about the innocent lives lost for one scrote’s thrills

When the Mazda ran a red light the officers stopped their pursuit.

Shortly after the vehicle careered through another red light and struck a family car, killing a 33-year-old man and 29-year-old woman and a four-month-old baby boy at the intersection of Canberra Avenue and the Monaro Highway exit ramp at Narrabundah.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/four-dead-after-chase-tragedy-almost-beyond-description-says-police-chief-20100321-qnlq.html

Truly unbelievable tragedy.

Two points.

1. It was a stolen car.

2. The pursuit had ceased.

Harsher penalties for stealing a vehicle, simple as that.

I’m not sorry the b@stard’s dead, but I doubt harsher penalties would have deterred him or other b@stards like him.

Death sentences in some countries can’t deter murder, and that’s about the biggest penalty you can apply. And for (usually) unpremeditated crimes committed by people who, lets face it, are basically in the bottom 10% of the brainpower and social pool a penalty of any sort rarely enters into calculation. It’s a snap judgement of possible gain (pleasure, financial) and a (misguided) estimation of the likelihood of getting caught that stops people, not the penalty.

I don’t know what the answer is to stop them – better car security systems, onboard tracking GPS, remote engine controls on alarm systems might help thwart them, perhaps but it won’t stop them trying and that’s what we need to aim at.

But I suspect harsher penalties would always be more a societal revenge mechanism than a preventative. And maybe revenge is all you’re after – you wouldn’t be the first or the last to suggest it. It’s certainly an understandable response.

On the whole though it’d probably be better to stop the behaviour from happening first.

David Lawler said :

NSW have started a smart idea, which every normal Joe Bloggs would have discussed over a few beers, “If you run from Police, you will get 2 years MINIMUM jail time – NO QUESTIONS ASKED”… Not that hard is it Courts.

The crime and subsequent pursuit began in NSW, so why are you ranting about the ACT legal system while praising the NSW system? (also, courts don’t make laws).

David Lawler said :

Canberrans have seen this not that long ago, when a druggy ran from police in Woden and killed a lady, i beg you all to look into this, same circumstances, same scenario, but in Melbourne when a man did exactly the same thing, ran from police killed an elderly man. Down to the same day as the Canberran going before the court (mind you she breached her bail a few times, he didnt), the verdict, Canberra lady NO CHARGE (are you serious) Melbourne man SEVEN count them, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, years, now where is the Justice there…

I’m pretty sure that she was charged and (eventually) jailed.

Harsher penalties for stealing a vehicle, simple as that.

That would make it more likely for idiots to try to out run the police.

Harsher penalties for stealing a vehicle, simple as that.

And you think that would discourage people from fleeing when they are pulled over in a stolen vehicle? I fail to see the logic…

Mind you, I am in favour of the ACT actually imprisoning people for crimes and imposing penalties commensurate with the severity of the crime. Seems like magistrates here will bend over backwards to avoid making anyone actually pay for their misdeeds. Sentencing in the ACT is a joke.

Blaming anyone, except the criminals, would be counter-productive in the extreme. Having said that, the incident does need to be studied carefully–not to assign blame, but to see how policies & procedures might be improved to prevent the recurrence of such a terrible, needless tragedy.

Unfortunatly harsher penalties just make people more likely to run, it doesn’t seem to inhibit the action in the first place. This is a very sad thing that has happened, but addressing the symptom with a half-arsed approach will not solve anything. Why are these kids doing stupid things like this in the first place. I believe it is because a lot of young people have little money and are bored, so go looking for “Cheap thrills”, and unfortunatly it is very difficult, almost impossible for the police to know that this sort of crap is going on before it’s to late. I know among a percentage of the younger generation there is an underlying sense of frustration regarding entertainment and where to find it. I certainly do not condone this form of “fun” but unfortunatly it takes all kinds and there are people who do class this sort of activity as entertaining. Alot of activities outside of a few politically correct ones are heavily restricted and require money, or are just simply banned. So if your breaking the rules no matter what you do, then it doesn’t matter what you do because your breaking the rules regardless, not saying that’s how I think, but i’m sure some people do. My thoughts go to the families and all people involved in this tragity!

Terrible, terrible news. 🙁

I will also add that the one person that can prevent these tragedies occurring is the driver of the offending car pulling over when requested. The blame starts and finishes there.

You got that wrong Old Canberran. The morons running from the police have to answer the question whether stealing a car then not having the balls to front up and cop the punishment and instead running like a coward is worth this high price.

The one solution is manditory minimum sentencing for failing to stop when directed and engaging in a high speed pursuit. There is absolutely NO excuse for speeding off and the penaties should reflect this. Manditory 5 years for pursuit with no serious injuries and minimum of 25 years for killing an innocent bystander.

Having said that, I am glad the absolute piece of crap driving the stolen car died, I hope the passenger rots inside if they survive. My condolences to the dead family, to the witnesses and police. They should not have to witness such a horror created by an idiot thinking of himself by speeding off, when driving home or doing their job.

David Lawler said :

Canberrans PLEASE wake up before more people have to die before Stanhope gets of his well paid, fat arse and get him to do something, except for putting up crappy art work, stuffing up the GDE and paying $$$$ for nothing.

It started in NSW. NSW Police were involved. How, pray tell, was the ACT Chief Minister Stanhope responsible for this tragedy???? Don’t make some dirtbag’s actions a political statement. The family who died deserve more than your political grandstanding.

oops, put my response inside the quotes not after.

Pommy bastard said :

Heavs said :

I’m glad the driver of the car being chased died, the world is better off without him.

I felt sick when I heard this story on the news this morning. This lowlife could have taken out any of us.

I am pleased he is dead. Good riddance.

As for his girlfriend, I initially thought hope she dies too, and gets what she deserves. Now I’m feeling maybe there’d be better justice if she is just seriously maimed, and left as a reminder to her family and friends as to what a dickhead she was.

How long before friends/family of the dead scum and his girlfriend come on here to defend them and blame the police? (waits for semi-literate, punctuation free rants to commence …)

SMH website is now reporting that the NSW police broke off the pursuit after the stolen Mazda ran a red light. Accident occurred when the stolen car ran another red light at the Monaro Highway Canberra Ave intersection.

old canberran said :

The police really have to answer the question whether the possible apprehension of a felon is worth this high price.

According to the ABC (and other reports I had received last night) the police DID call off the case before the prang. Puts the whole accident into more of a perspective when the blame becomes less clouded.

I imagine these crazies get off on the adrenalin rush of a pursuit and aren’t thinking about harsher penalties etc. in the heat of the moment. They can get away if they are good enough drivers and floor the accelerator they tell themselves. The only solution is a high tech one. Track the car from satellite when the police car following get’s a position on it (then it immediately abandons chase, calls in other police cars later down the track) then send chopper over and herd the driver like a rat into his cage, so he can’t escape. Also make speed cameras and all police cars additionally register car rego numbers so that it becomes very difficult to get away with stealing a vehicle, would help with other areas of crime too. By all means bring in tougher penalties to see if it helps.

Pommy bastard said :

It must have been a particularly stupid, uncaring, piece of s**t to push this chase to the limit where people are now dead.

I’m glad the driver of the car being chased died, the world is better off without him.

I feel sorry for the police drivers who are going to catch flack for this, for doing their best to protect us.

I totally agree, I think it’s completely narrow-minded that people instantly blame the police, when it was not them that caused the accident. I’m glad this ****wit is dead, he certainly won’t be doing it again.

I am at complete sorrow for the family that was killed, but I for one will NOT blame the police, but the scum who was fleeing.

By the way, reports are now in that the police actually DID call off the chase before the accident. What will people who are saying its not worth chasing these crooks say now?

I suggest a new siren sound be developed so those in pursuit are actually aware that the chase has stopped. Perhaps an intermittent beep-beep or something.

Very sad for all involved. I feel for the police involved in the incident – they were only doing their jobs.

This is not the first time a police pursuit has ended in tragedy and I guess it won’t be the last.
This time an innocent young couple just starting family life have been violently taken from their own relatives and friends. The police really have to answer the question whether the possible apprehension of a felon is worth this high price.

It’s a simple contempt for authority that makes someone think “I can outrun these people?” I hope this Morons family and friends all rot in hell knowing their mate killed 3 innocent people because he was an imbecile. As for the female passenger what was she doing there I wonder?

What a very sad tragedy indeed. Absolutely feel for the families involved.

The police should (I do mean should, not do/can/are) be able to tap into computers in cars (imaginary database/remote system) in this day and age to ‘kill’ them dead, not innocent people.

Not justifiable by any means. A precious family, gone.

Heavs said :

Must have been a valuable car that was stolen to make it worth four lives.

It must have been a particularly stupid, uncaring, piece of s**t to push this chase to the limit where people are now dead.

I’m glad the driver of the car being chased died, the world is better off without him.

I feel sorry for the police drivers who are going to catch flack for this, for doing their best to protect us.

This is yet another sad story and innocent lives taken before they should be… All because of a dirt bag that has probably been before the Court several times and slapped on the wrist. There is not right or wrong in police pursuits, police do everything in their power to uphold the law and put criminals before the courts day in day out..

It then becomes another story in itself when they step before these magistrates who have no idea when it comes to rights, life, victims, law and punishment.

I like this comment above, however i would say and most people who live in Canberra would know that these people who run from police are using stolen cars, so getting a registration and checking it back later, would be nothing but a waste of time.

My heart goes out to this innocent family taken from life so shortly because of a piece of garbage, yes piece of garbage. Im only saying what every other person who reads this tragic story is thinking…

People die because of lifes trash called criminals and they do just that, break the law and in certain circumstances, like last night, they KILL someone, or several. When are the innocent going to be protected by the people who ruin it day in day out called “The COURTS”.. Make these robe hiding idiots accountable for their actions, they are a disgrace to all law abiding, helpless individuals.

NSW have started a smart idea, which every normal Joe Bloggs would have discussed over a few beers, “If you run from Police, you will get 2 years MINIMUM jail time – NO QUESTIONS ASKED”… Not that hard is it Courts.

I wonder if one of the families killed where someone who created one of those crappy artworks around Canberra would that make Stanhope stand up and fight for a change in laws, NO its just another (ANOTHER) INNOCENT family killed because its easier to pay a fine from running from Police, than it is to getting away.

Police are on this planet to capture criminals, how many victims out there have had the best feeling when a criminal who has done them wrong, been arrested. Then ask these people how they feel a few months later when the courts just let them walk..

Canberrans have seen this not that long ago, when a druggy ran from police in Woden and killed a lady, i beg you all to look into this, same circumstances, same scenario, but in Melbourne when a man did exactly the same thing, ran from police killed an elderly man. Down to the same day as the Canberran going before the court (mind you she breached her bail a few times, he didnt), the verdict, Canberra lady NO CHARGE (are you serious) Melbourne man SEVEN count them, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, years, now where is the Justice there…

Canberrans PLEASE wake up before more people have to die before Stanhope gets of his well paid, fat arse and get him to do something, except for putting up crappy art work, stuffing up the GDE and paying $$$$ for nothing.

The problem with getting their number plates is, mainly if they are running from the Police, they are in a stolen car, or don’t have registration, 9 times out of 10, the car isn’t or hasn’t been registered to the person driving.

So unless they are recognised as being the driver, there is no way of knowing who is actually at the wheel until it stops.

Why do people do it?

They want to tell their mates they just outrun the Police…

Should we ban pursuits, hell no, if crims are know that all it takes is getting in a car and driving off from Police, how many people will actually be apprehended?

Must have been a valuable car that was stolen to make it worth four lives.

one option is to have police call off the chase once a number plate is recorded. Then look the driver up on a database, get their phone number and ring them (or their parents) in an effort to get them to slow down and give them the opportunity to turn themselves in. I don’t know if that would work. But it would be better than these needless deaths

This presumes that the registered owners of the car have anything to do with the chase. You do realise that a huge proportion of cars involved in such chases are stolen and/or being driven by joyriders?