Get off the road you idiot !!

I still stand by my thoughts on cycling being a “magic bullet” for obesity.
Australia has a population that is roughly 60% overweight and 20% obese by definition. Denmark, which is praised in the media as one of the cycling capitals of the world, has similar rates of being overweight. So where is the evidence that shows how a mass change of transport modality reduces the burden on hospitals?
A 2013 study in Denmark surprisingly showed that mortality rates were lowest in people who had a BMI of 27, which is technically in the overweight range. So statistics do not necessarily support your argument.
We have to consider diet as a large part of the problem, not just inactivity. Load ratings of modern bicycles also must be mentioned, as some are only rated to about 150kg, with seat posts being a weak link in designs. Not only that, but braking power too. Imagine cruising down Barry Drive into Civic and not having enough stopping power to pull up your eager mass to avoid riding into a pedestrian or the back of a bus.
The idea of encouraging cycling for health is good, but the practicalities need careful consideration.

dungfungus said :

There is nothing shown on that jersey showing it is a West Coast jersey. Who are West Coast incidentally?

I don’t go running.

I used to wear rugby boots when I was training – it’s a bit difficult to practise rucking with sand shoes.

I used to ride a bike everywhere in everyday clothes, no problems. If I turned up for work in a “pixie suit” I would have been fired. In those days we shared the road with cars, no problems.

And my mother is dead and I don’t live in a basement.

West Coast are a team in that sports ball game called AFL. The colours and the logo identify who they are.

You wore rugby boots, so you should understand the clothing specific requirement then.

You don’t really need to wear cycling clothes for say a 20 minute ride, I wouldn’t anyway. If you are riding for an hour or more then I would wear pixie gear. During the week I am either hitting the gym or going for a longish ride. On the days I gym, I just wear normal shorts and shirt, on the long ride days I am in cycling clothes because I have already ridden 40 odd kms before getting my bag from home and then riding to work.

Amazingly most work places now have these areas called change rooms, they even have showers. So I can shower and get into my suit before a day of being a corporate drone. I can’t say I have seen anyone spend the day working in cycling clothes, that would be weird.

These days bikes can also share the road with cars (in fact my previous post didn’t say they couldn’t so would be great for you to quote where I did). Most of my riding I don’t have an issue. I’ve have encountered incidents with drivers, they have been pretty rare luckily, there are special snowflakes on both sides of the fence in that argument. I find riding predictably and not being a jerk tends to have me problem free.

bikhet said :

I think part of the reason we often hear of cyclists being verbally abused is because only cyclists are in a position to hear the abuse – pedestrians too, but they are rarely on the roads with the traffic. I think that the the drivers who swear at cyclists also swear at other drivers, but the drivers can’t hear them as they have the windows wound up and the radio playing, or the kids screaming, or …

It’s all part of the symptoms of self-entitlement people are showing – my needs matter and you don’t have any needs for me to take into consideration.

As for the scum who physically abuse other road users, well, they’re just scum.

I’d never really thought about this, but I daresay you are quite correct. Some people just need to ‘have a spray’.

carnardly said :

Instant said :

I have seen so many poor examples of cycling on roads that I’m surprised cyclists don’t get abused more often. And I’ve yet to see a cyclist write an article about the pedestrians who are routinely startled and almost run over on a daily basis by inconsiderate, arrogant cyclists.

everyone going down Adelaide Avenue at night has lights and a lid on and rides safely and predictably. They have to if they want to survive. I also pass through half a dozen sets of lights at woden and at any red light either morning or night there are cyclists lined up in the bike lanes along melrose drive.

people don’t seem to notice the ‘good’ ones out there.

there are plenty of us

However, the druggies around civic or the ‘free spirits’ that wander around the ANU are a law unto themselves. Good cyclists hate those too. No lights. No lids and often no idea. I expect many of them are organ donors in the making.

Re pedestrians – i ding my bell probably 20 metres behind EVERY pedestrian i come up upon.

About 10 metres behind i ding again and call ‘bike passing’.

many give an acknowledgement wave. many don’t move. some groups split like scattering sheep and run in each direction. some turn around and say ‘i don’t have to get out of your way’ but in significantly more colourful language. For those people, i’m not expecting you to get out of the way. I’m just letting you know i’m coming so you don’t have a heart attack. By far the greatest percentage of pedos don’t even hear me as they’re plugged in and oblivious to their own surroundings.

These are the ones i trust the least as many will leap like a started gazelle when they are finally aware you’re there.

Sometimes a cyclist can’t win. I and my friends and fellow commuters have yet to hit anyone in decades of riding. hell maybe there’s something wrong with me…?

Agreed. The vast majority of cyclists I see on the roads are doing the right thing, particularly on my commutes to and from the city. I’m not all that courageous at tricky intersections. I’m much more likely to stop completely and assess the situation before proceeding.

In regards to bike/pedestrian paths you are so right that many are wearing headphones and are oblivious to a bell. I must say that around Lake Tuggeranong I certainly don’t have any problems. Everyone is sensible and courteous.

I think part of the reason we often hear of cyclists being verbally abused is because only cyclists are in a position to hear the abuse – pedestrians too, but they are rarely on the roads with the traffic. I think that the the drivers who swear at cyclists also swear at other drivers, but the drivers can’t hear them as they have the windows wound up and the radio playing, or the kids screaming, or …

It’s all part of the symptoms of self-entitlement people are showing – my needs matter and you don’t have any needs for me to take into consideration.

As for the scum who physically abuse other road users, well, they’re just scum.

Instant said :

I have seen so many poor examples of cycling on roads that I’m surprised cyclists don’t get abused more often. And I’ve yet to see a cyclist write an article about the pedestrians who are routinely startled and almost run over on a daily basis by inconsiderate, arrogant cyclists.

everyone going down Adelaide Avenue at night has lights and a lid on and rides safely and predictably. They have to if they want to survive. I also pass through half a dozen sets of lights at woden and at any red light either morning or night there are cyclists lined up in the bike lanes along melrose drive. people don’t seem to notice the ‘good’ ones out there. there are plenty of us

However, the druggies around civic or the ‘free spirits’ that wander around the ANU are a law unto themselves. Good cyclists hate those too. No lights. No lids and often no idea. I expect many of them are organ donors in the making.

Re pedestrians – i ding my bell probably 20 metres behind EVERY pedestrian i come up upon. About 10 metres behind i ding again and call ‘bike passing’. many give an acknowledgement wave. many don’t move. some groups split like scattering sheep and run in each direction. some turn around and say ‘i don’t have to get out of your way’ but in significantly more colourful language. For those people, i’m not expecting you to get out of the way. I’m just letting you know i’m coming so you don’t have a heart attack. By far the greatest percentage of pedos don’t even hear me as they’re plugged in and oblivious to their own surroundings. These are the ones i trust the least as many will leap like a started gazelle when they are finally aware you’re there. Sometimes a cyclist can’t win. I and my friends and fellow commuters have yet to hit anyone in decades of riding. hell maybe there’s something wrong with me…?

Dondon said :

dungfungus said :

Mark, why is it that some riders (like you) choose to wear those “pixie suits”?

Are you emulating professional riders? Do you get paid for advertising the names on the clothing?

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

Dungfungus, I have to ask, do you have sight problems? The reason I ask is the photo obviously shows the author actually wearing a west coast jersey.

Next question, when you run do you wear running shorts and shirt and running shoes or do you wear your jeans and polo shirt with leather shoes. I mean unless you’re trying to look like Deeks, Freeman or some other professional sports person surely every day clothes are fine.

I use to wear rugby boots, shorts and a training jersey when training on the paddock for rugby. Does that mean I was trying to emulate a professional rugby player.

Alternatively, maybe wearing specific purpose designed clothing for that activity actually makes things a bit more comfortable. However I don’t think you are really into doing much except trolling on the internet from your mum’s basement so you wouldn’t realise that.

There is nothing shown on that jersey showing it is a West Coast jersey. Who are West Coast incidentally?

I don’t go running.

I used to wear rugby boots when I was training – it’s a bit difficult to practise rucking with sand shoes.

I used to ride a bike everywhere in everyday clothes, no problems. If I turned up for work in a “pixie suit” I would have been fired. In those days we shared the road with cars, no problems.

And my mother is dead and I don’t live in a basement.

I have seen so many poor examples of cycling on roads that I’m surprised cyclists don’t get abused more often. And I’ve yet to see a cyclist write an article about the pedestrians who are routinely startled and almost run over on a daily basis by inconsiderate, arrogant cyclists.

dungfungus said :

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

I hear muumuus are quite comfortable. I guess that means everyone will be wearing one for all occasions now, over their pyjamas, which are also comfortable.

wild turkey has been anticyclist as long as the pope has been catholic.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4427142/Cycling-work-halves-risk-heart-disease-cancer.html was in the news last week. Obesity is costing us BILLIONS according to the AIHW report for 2016, but people here complain about a bit of paint and the cost of a few bike lanes around the place. Start off at 5 kms, or 10. Ride at a safe pace and within 3 months your risk of a heart attack will decrease significantly.

But there are different types of cyclist and not all of them are the lycra hoons. Yes you will get racers that can ride at 40 kmph and want good roads to do so. These guys keep up with traffic and ride between 6 and 7.30 in the morning and are generally off the road once drivers seem to demand the roads as their own during peak hour. At the other end of the scale you have people who are happy to pootle and are quite comfortable riding round the lake and shared paths at weekend. Then you have the sporting/fitness cyclists that might do a bit of triathlon, dabble with races, or utility cyclists that are hard core commuters to work.

Each has different needs and will ride differently.

There IS no war between cyclists and drivers. People should put their egos in their pockets and respect that that dude on a bike is also someone’s husband/brother/wife/sister/daughter/friend

I ride as safely as possible, wear bright coloured clothes (simply for visibility – no logos on me), lights at night and still have duckheads and idiots MGIF (must get in front) or SMIDGAF about you and push in or cut me off without so much as a second thought. I also ride on roads with on road bike lanes as the paths aren’t quick or efficient for where i want to go. I don’t hold up other drivers but get sworn at somewhat regularly. Paths also aren’t generally lit in many areas. Food has been thrown at me plenty of times. Empty soft drink cans bounce. Full ones hurt. I have been called all sorts of names on the canberra drivers farcebook page simply cos i am a cyclist and have chosen that method of transport. I have saved thousands over the years in petrol and parking fees and i’m not a fatty. While people moan about their tax dollars and cyclists paying rego, why should my tax dollars go to the retrofitting of bariatric ambulances and floors in the hospital to cater for lardarses?

I could be your child’s teacher, your local GP, the person that teachers your kids swimming on the weekend. But i’m ‘gettoffthefriggingroadyaf##ken##nt’ simply as i am on my bike. Somewhere along the line, most kids learn to ride a bike and have fun doing it. Do they lose that completely once they get a licence to drive a vehicle? Seems like it.

It’s bloody sad really…

dungfungus said :

Mark, why is it that some riders (like you) choose to wear those “pixie suits”?

Are you emulating professional riders? Do you get paid for advertising the names on the clothing?

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

Dungfungus, I have to ask, do you have sight problems? The reason I ask is the photo obviously shows the author actually wearing a west coast jersey.

Next question, when you run do you wear running shorts and shirt and running shoes or do you wear your jeans and polo shirt with leather shoes. I mean unless you’re trying to look like Deeks, Freeman or some other professional sports person surely every day clothes are fine.

I use to wear rugby boots, shorts and a training jersey when training on the paddock for rugby. Does that mean I was trying to emulate a professional rugby player.

Alternatively, maybe wearing specific purpose designed clothing for that activity actually makes things a bit more comfortable. However I don’t think you are really into doing much except trolling on the internet from your mum’s basement so you wouldn’t realise that.

Mark Parton MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Mark, why is it that some riders (like you) choose to wear those “pixie suits”?

Are you emulating professional riders? Do you get paid for advertising the names on the clothing?

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

In the picture attached to the story I’m actually wearing a West Coast Eagles football jumper over a tee shirt….and lycra on the bottom. Lycra bike pants have inbuilt padding. If you’re riding 60kms plus in a day, it will make your day more comfortable.

I probably only wear lycra on the top 20% of the time. I find the greatest benefit of a lycra top are the pockets at the base of the back. Very easy access while riding and the pockets are designed to be tight over whatever you put in them which means you won’t loose the contents on your ride.

And, when it all boils down, why should you care what I wear when I ride ? It has no effect on you.

When someone dressed in “the gear” rides near me a on shared path I actually feel intimidated because they are going too fast, obviously thinking they are competing in an international time trial.

They know there is no one there to enforce speed limits.

If they want to ride as fast as possible there is always that multi million dollar criterium facility at Stromlo Forest Park.

Thanks for the positive piece on cycling Mark. One of the big expectations I have from your tenure with the lunatics on London Circuit is a general raising of awareness of the issues confronting those who choose to ride a bicycle as part of their transport solution, as opposed to an expression of athleticism. These are the people who do a bit of a risk assessment of the hazards of every route before heading off, rather than riding in close quarters with a gang trying to beat their previous Strava best time.

My first experience with that bad Canberra attitude towards cyclists came in 1980 when I got off the train from Cooma on Australia Day and was cut off by some middle aged male driving the generic orange HQ wagon. When politely questioned about his error he yelled out “pushbikes should be on the path”. Nothing much has changed except those middle aged males now drive beige Camrys just as badly. My point is that the attitude comes from a poor culture that will only be addressed by leadership. I look forward to seeing if you attempt to provide some leadership on this issue.

Mark Parton MLA said :

dungfungus said :

Mark, why is it that some riders (like you) choose to wear those “pixie suits”?

Are you emulating professional riders? Do you get paid for advertising the names on the clothing?

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

In the picture attached to the story I’m actually wearing a West Coast Eagles football jumper over a tee shirt….and lycra on the bottom. Lycra bike pants have inbuilt padding. If you’re riding 60kms plus in a day, it will make your day more comfortable.

I probably only wear lycra on the top 20% of the time. I find the greatest benefit of a lycra top are the pockets at the base of the back. Very easy access while riding and the pockets are designed to be tight over whatever you put in them which means you won’t loose the contents on your ride.

And, when it all boils down, why should you care what I wear when I ride ? It has no effect on you.

I ride the bike but I wear Brumbies gym shorts with pockets so I can keep my keys for the bike locks on me and if I want to go to the gym during the ride. I usually wear a gym singlet during summer (yeah, I’m a showoff 🙂 ) or a hoody during winter. To say all bike riders wear “pixie suits” (lycra) is a bit of a stereotyped attitude. I’ve noticed a trend away from lycras for cyclists, expecially among young BMX and MTB riders.

dungfungus said :

Mark, why is it that some riders (like you) choose to wear those “pixie suits”?

Are you emulating professional riders? Do you get paid for advertising the names on the clothing?

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

In the picture attached to the story I’m actually wearing a West Coast Eagles football jumper over a tee shirt….and lycra on the bottom. Lycra bike pants have inbuilt padding. If you’re riding 60kms plus in a day, it will make your day more comfortable.

I probably only wear lycra on the top 20% of the time. I find the greatest benefit of a lycra top are the pockets at the base of the back. Very easy access while riding and the pockets are designed to be tight over whatever you put in them which means you won’t loose the contents on your ride.

And, when it all boils down, why should you care what I wear when I ride ? It has no effect on you.

wildturkeycanoe said :

“If 5% of the population followed my lead and did the same, the results would be remarkable.”
They certainly would. Just imagine another almost 18,000 bicycles out and about during peak hour.

“1. There’d be less car traffic on the road which would enable those loud mouth motorists to get to where they were going earlier.”
Maybe yes, but perhaps not. If those extra 18,000 cyclists try to cram onto the bike paths we have right now, it’d be gridlock. So in order to avoid congestion the faster cyclists would ditch the slow going paths in favor of on road cycle lanes. Once we get large groups of cyclists riding two abreast and cars excluded from entering the one and half meter safety bubble required, the vehicular traffic speed on most single lane roads will be reduced to that of the cyclists, as overtaking will be dangerous or impossible. Dual lane roads will also lose two meters of the left lane to the same safety bubble, as cyclists ride along the white dividing line that separates four wheels from two.
Those cyclists who prefer to avoid combat will use the pedestrian infrastructure to get to their destination. That means the zebra crossings and signalized pedestrian crossings will have a lot more traffic. This will extend the duration of traffic light cycles, meaning cars will stop more frequently and for longer at intersections. The result will be even longer queues into the city for motorized transport and also for cyclists who will have more obstacles on their once devoid pathways. So the traffic woe of having too many cars on the road will be turned into too many cyclists on the road, plus more traffic on pedestrian and shared paths. Nobody is going to get to work any faster, indeed the cyclist from the outer suburbs will take even longer to travel to and from the workplace.

“2. You’d instantly see pressure relieved from the health system”
Wow! Cycling can cure health complaints in short order can it? Are you certain that people with health issues such as high blood pressure, heart problems, asthma, obesity and any number of other conditions will not suffer complications from a sudden change in lifestyle? There would be no strains, no heart attacks from over exertion, no heatstroke, no calls for an ambulance as inexperienced riders tackle not only the operation of the bike but the challenges of navigating through crowded footpaths, bike paths and shared zones? What of the extra activity on the road lanes, the risk of getting sideswiped or t-boned by a vehicle due purely to statistical probability simply by increasing the number of users? Sure there are health benefits to cycling, but there are greater risks involved as well so claiming a miraculous decline in hospitalizations is a bit of a stretch.
Walking a dog is arguably a healthy lifestyle choice, but we have seen in news reports that there are three dog attacks a week requiring a trip to the emergency department.
Sports are also activities that promote well-being, but they also increase the risk of injury, so the benefits have to be weighed against the possible negatives.

I’ve never ridden in a group of cyclists and created that bubble you speak of. If cyclists are genuinely commuting, you’ll find that they will ride alone.

And in regards to your health system comments, so many of our community health problems are caused by obesity. If a large section of Canberrans were genuinely healthier through more exercise they would not require the health system for as much as they do now.

rommeldog56 said :

To answer your last question first “Will we ever stop fighting this cyclists v motorists war ?”

I hope so but doubt it. There appears to be a sizeable minority of ning nong drivers AND bike riders to ensure that the respective gene pools will continue this “war” for the foreseeable future I’m afraid. I love bike riding and used to do 32 ks a day – but for recreation only.. But work has got in the road (pun intended) and I’m no longer do that – and feel much worse without it too !

When u turned from Sulwood onto Erindale Dive (a big and often busy round a bout in itself) to go downhill on Erindale Drive towards its intersection with Sternberg Cres (again, an often very busy section of road), I assume u knew there was a good bike path on the other side of Erindale Drive (on the Wanniassa side)? Personally, I stick to bike paths when riding for recreation, as its safer.

Now, that round a bout at Erindale/Sternberg is at the bottom of a steep hill. The round a bout line markings are somewhat confusing in that it branches from 1 lane to the right along Sternberg towards Erindale shops and then separates 1/2 way round to go back up the hill along the other/Wannassia side of Erindale Drive.

Positing a car or a bike on that roundabout to exit safely can be challenging – especially if the vehicle has entered it too fast because the approach is downhill.

I’ve only gone around that round a bout on a push bike once – and never again ! It’s far too dangerous for me I’m afraid.

It was only the first time that I’d taken that roundabout on the bike as well, because like you, I normally make the call that it’s just a little too dangerous. On this occasion there was virtually no traffic. When we hit the roundabout, it was just me and the ute driver. If it’s safe, I ride on the road.

Mark, why is it that some riders (like you) choose to wear those “pixie suits”?

Are you emulating professional riders? Do you get paid for advertising the names on the clothing?

And don’t try and tell me that lycra is comfortable – if this were the case everyone would be wearing it for all occasions.

“If 5% of the population followed my lead and did the same, the results would be remarkable.”
They certainly would. Just imagine another almost 18,000 bicycles out and about during peak hour.

“1. There’d be less car traffic on the road which would enable those loud mouth motorists to get to where they were going earlier.”
Maybe yes, but perhaps not. If those extra 18,000 cyclists try to cram onto the bike paths we have right now, it’d be gridlock. So in order to avoid congestion the faster cyclists would ditch the slow going paths in favor of on road cycle lanes. Once we get large groups of cyclists riding two abreast and cars excluded from entering the one and half meter safety bubble required, the vehicular traffic speed on most single lane roads will be reduced to that of the cyclists, as overtaking will be dangerous or impossible. Dual lane roads will also lose two meters of the left lane to the same safety bubble, as cyclists ride along the white dividing line that separates four wheels from two.
Those cyclists who prefer to avoid combat will use the pedestrian infrastructure to get to their destination. That means the zebra crossings and signalized pedestrian crossings will have a lot more traffic. This will extend the duration of traffic light cycles, meaning cars will stop more frequently and for longer at intersections. The result will be even longer queues into the city for motorized transport and also for cyclists who will have more obstacles on their once devoid pathways. So the traffic woe of having too many cars on the road will be turned into too many cyclists on the road, plus more traffic on pedestrian and shared paths. Nobody is going to get to work any faster, indeed the cyclist from the outer suburbs will take even longer to travel to and from the workplace.

“2. You’d instantly see pressure relieved from the health system”
Wow! Cycling can cure health complaints in short order can it? Are you certain that people with health issues such as high blood pressure, heart problems, asthma, obesity and any number of other conditions will not suffer complications from a sudden change in lifestyle? There would be no strains, no heart attacks from over exertion, no heatstroke, no calls for an ambulance as inexperienced riders tackle not only the operation of the bike but the challenges of navigating through crowded footpaths, bike paths and shared zones? What of the extra activity on the road lanes, the risk of getting sideswiped or t-boned by a vehicle due purely to statistical probability simply by increasing the number of users? Sure there are health benefits to cycling, but there are greater risks involved as well so claiming a miraculous decline in hospitalizations is a bit of a stretch.
Walking a dog is arguably a healthy lifestyle choice, but we have seen in news reports that there are three dog attacks a week requiring a trip to the emergency department.
Sports are also activities that promote well-being, but they also increase the risk of injury, so the benefits have to be weighed against the possible negatives.

To answer your last question first “Will we ever stop fighting this cyclists v motorists war ?” I hope so but doubt it. There appears to be a sizeable minority of ning nong drivers AND bike riders to ensure that the respective gene pools will continue this “war” for the foreseeable future I’m afraid. I love bike riding and used to do 32 ks a day – but for recreation only.. But work has got in the road (pun intended) and I’m no longer do that – and feel much worse without it too !

When u turned from Sulwood onto Erindale Dive (a big and often busy round a bout in itself) to go downhill on Erindale Drive towards its intersection with Sternberg Cres (again, an often very busy section of road), I assume u knew there was a good bike path on the other side of Erindale Drive (on the Wanniassa side)? Personally, I stick to bike paths when riding for recreation, as its safer.

Now, that round a bout at Erindale/Sternberg is at the bottom of a steep hill. The round a bout line markings are somewhat confusing in that it branches from 1 lane to the right along Sternberg towards Erindale shops and then separates 1/2 way round to go back up the hill along the other/Wannassia side of Erindale Drive.

Positing a car or a bike on that roundabout to exit safely can be challenging – especially if the vehicle has entered it too fast because the approach is downhill.

I’ve only gone around that round a bout on a push bike once – and never again ! It’s far too dangerous for me I’m afraid.