13 April 2011

Glenloch Morons

13 April 2011 | pbissett

I’m calling for permanent traffic monitoring in roadwork zones.

A woman who tailgated me through the Glenloch roadworks today was so furious that I was doing the speed limit she pulled up next to me on Parkes Way after the roadwork zone, leaned out her window and hurled abuse whilst driving at 90 km/h.

I wanted to move into the left lane and she deliberately blocked me, speeding up and slowing down.

One woman driving recklessly, endangering me and others because I was doing the speed limit.

Things like this happen every day and I’m sick of it.

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colourful sydney racing identity4:16 pm 19 Apr 11

shadow boxer said :

No, pick any figure you want, it doesn’t matter.

Did you just make it up to further your argument?

triffid4:09 pm 19 Apr 11

shadow boxer said :

lol, you are a normal road user and you regularly speed because you think you know better than the posted limit and are a better driver than everyone else so you can make your own rules, there’s a bloke in this thread ready to whip some vigilante justice on your ass.

My guess is you regard getting a speeding ticket when you get caught as bad luck rather than a heinous crime. My point is until we get speed limits that a normal rational person like yourself considerd reasonable and sticks to, enforcing the status quo with a heavy hand will have little effect.

Some options include variable speed limits like on the M7 (even though they set them to low) or the German model of reasonable speed for the conditions as determined by the police officer.

Your “gunning it” in town to get away from other drivers may be considered unreasonable if observed out of context though.

I’ve said it a few times now and I think it’s boring people so i’ll be quiet now.

(sigh) Not entirely accurate, I’m afraid. I am not a ‘normal’ road user in the context of ‘one of the herd’. Nor do I regularly speed. When I do speed it is because I adjudge — with the benefit of my experience — the conditions safe to do so, not because I ‘think I know better than the posted limit’ (in those circumstances I regard the posted limits as ‘advisory’. Shoot me for having enjoyed the German experience. Be aware that I continue to drive the road as I see it, with a high level of concentration). Nor do I ‘think’ that I am a better driver than most. I know I am in some criteria (level of car control skill / road reading / road craft generally) But, I can make small mistakes in other areas.

Your guess is wrong in that I don’t regard getting pinged as ‘bad luck’ (I actually did get caught by a red light / speed camera for the first time in 20 years recently . . . only a tiddle over and within speedo error . . . couldn’t be stuffed fighting it). Rather, I wear it as a fair cop (or a complete lack of observation on my behalf if on the highway). In some instances, I would regard it as a heinous crime (I’d consider hanging up the gloves if I ever got done in a school zone for example).

It is my assertion that the speed limits set ARE appropriate for the NORMAL driver. In fact, in many instances, they ARE too high. While I’d happily support the German approach, I would only be prepared to do so when you (and my mum) can explain to me the dynamics of tri-axial roll understeer and / or shut-throttle oversteer (and have performed an emergency brake procedure from 220 km/hr . . . in the wet).

My ‘gunning it’ in town has been the subject of police attention in the past (as have occasions of anticipating light changes so as to arrive at fresh green lights rolling at 40 km/hr, thereby enabling me to glide past the stationary patrol car, that guns past me, only to need to brake and stop — way up the road from me — at the red light that then freshly changes to green, thereby allowing me to glide through at 40 km / hr past the patrol car etc etc). But, I do not do so in a manner so as to create undue noise or attention, or to operate vehicle in a reckless manner. It has never raised a ticket: ever.

I once had a NSW highway patrol car sit on my tail for 15 or so km at ‘a speed we don’t talk about in public’. He only overtook me 10 km outside of a major NSW country town. His ‘message lights’ on the car’s roof tapped out ‘check speed’. The patrol car bolted off as I rolled off the throttle. I stopped at the same road house in that town to refuel as the patrol car had also stopped. I thanked the officer for cutting me some slack. He explained that, in following me, he could see that I posed no harm. His exact words were “lovely road placement . . . you’ve ridden motorbikes, too, haven’t you?” He then pointed out where the radars and other patrols were for the remainder of my route. I would anticipate (and hope) that very same officer, had he come up behind some muppet P plater, devoid of skill, travelling at my pace, to have taken his licence off him and cut it up on the spot.

Still not QED (LOL)

shadow boxer3:51 pm 19 Apr 11

No, pick any figure you want, it doesn’t matter.

colourful sydney racing identity3:15 pm 19 Apr 11

shadow boxer said :

lol, you are a normal road user and you regularly speed because you think you know better than the posted limit and are a better driver than everyone else so you can make your own rules, there’s a bloke in this thread ready to whip some vigilante justice on your ass.

My guess is you regard getting a speeding ticket when you get caught as bad luck rather than a heinous crime. My point is until we get speed limits that a normal rational person like yourself considerd reasonable and sticks to, enforcing the status quo with a heavy hand will have little effect.

Some options include variable speed limits like on the M7 (even though they set them to low) or the German model of reasonable speed for the conditions as determined by the police officer.

Your “gunning it” in town to get away from other drivers may be considered unreasonable if observed out of context though.

I’ve said it a few times now and I think it’s boring people so i’ll be quiet now.

Beofre you go can you please, please point to the evidence of the 80% of people that admit to ‘regularly speeding’?

shadow boxer2:38 pm 19 Apr 11

lol, you are a normal road user and you regularly speed because you think you know better than the posted limit and are a better driver than everyone else so you can make your own rules, there’s a bloke in this thread ready to whip some vigilante justice on your ass.

My guess is you regard getting a speeding ticket when you get caught as bad luck rather than a heinous crime. My point is until we get speed limits that a normal rational person like yourself considerd reasonable and sticks to, enforcing the status quo with a heavy hand will have little effect.

Some options include variable speed limits like on the M7 (even though they set them to low) or the German model of reasonable speed for the conditions as determined by the police officer.

Your “gunning it” in town to get away from other drivers may be considered unreasonable if observed out of context though.

I’ve said it a few times now and I think it’s boring people so i’ll be quiet now.

triffid2:12 pm 19 Apr 11

shadow boxer said :

Exhibit A, I rest my case.

Not so fast, sport. I’m not even remotely advocating:

shadow boxer said :

40 kmh, fair dinkum, what a stupid speed limit, should just get a bloke with a flag to walk in front of you.

shadow boxer said :

Why ? They are all good people, I dont usually judge people on sunglass choice.

Some people in this thread need to realise that 80% of people speed because the limits are stupid and we have lives and places to be.

If you can’t keep up get out of the way….

Rather, what I am saying is that the 80 percent quoted is meaningless without context. I could, or could not, suit ‘the frame’ depending on the context. My reasons for being ‘Hector’ around town are to make an allowance on road for people who think that, ” . . . the limits are stupid and we have lives and places to be.” (but who, as far as I see demonstrated daily, can’t drive for sh*t). I occasionally hammer it on the highway ‘cos I safely can, my car(s) can, I pose no risk to others and it is safer for me to do so.

Rather, what I am saying is (as someone who can, in all likelihood, call themselves qualified to make an assessment) that speed limits AREN’T stoopid when the calibre of vehicle operation — in the broad — is considered. It’s got nothing to do with road standards . . . make them all gravel for all I care.

The ’80 percent’ you have relied upon in that context is meaningless, especially when 99.99999 percent of that 80 percent couldn’t drive a greasy stick . . .er, couldn’t drive out of sight on a dark night with their lights off (as many of them do). It’s not clear to me that my assertion assists in placing you in the ‘QED’ seat just yet.

shadow boxer1:07 pm 19 Apr 11

triffid said :

shadow boxer said :

Well from the first link

“Motorists are breaking the law,” according to car insurance provider Budget Direct, who say “29 per cent of drivers admit to speeding in residential areas while a further 60 per cent exceed the speed limit on highways, motorways or freeways.” With the help of market research company footprints, Budget Directasked residents across Australia to anonymously reveal their driving habits when it comes to speeding and the results are of grave concern.

Again, the concept requires some thought, not just sound bites out of context.

If I had responded to that survey I would have likely indicated that, yes, I speed on highways (but probably not motorways or freeways). When I do, it is invariably when there’s A) bugger all other traffic around (‘cos it’s sometime between 2400 hrs and 0500 hrs) and B) I’m the only one in the car. And, yes, I will sometimes drop the hammer in an urban environment for a short burst to improve my safety (by thereby having fewer cars around me).

But (and here’s a bit of a critical perspective) I more usually creep around like Hector the Safety Cat around town and rarel go over any posted limits.

Driving around me, you’d swear I have a wardrobe full of beige cardies (I don’t). AND, the reason I do that is as a simple defence against the f-stick hammering along Limestone at 90 k because “speed limits are stopid and I have a life to lead and places to be”. I am every bit capable of getting from Canberra to Brisbane in well under 12 hours safely and without any impact on others, or by placing anyone, including myself, at any risk of harm (done it plenty of times). But, I make the allowance for you, the f-stick, around town, because my skills and experience enables me to watch your roadcraft, your road placement, the way you ‘balance’ the car and transfer its mass as you pilot it around and I can instantly tell you haven’t got the slightest clue what you are doing. That you’ve either got your fog lights on, or that your car is grey, the street lights are on and you haven’t got even parkers on is another giveaway (or that you have oversize sunnies on and drive a Lancer).

So, in my mind, it’s more lies, damn lies and statistics . . . numbers that are meaningless without context.

Exhibit A, I rest my case.

triffid12:55 pm 19 Apr 11

shadow boxer said :

Well from the first link

“Motorists are breaking the law,” according to car insurance provider Budget Direct, who say “29 per cent of drivers admit to speeding in residential areas while a further 60 per cent exceed the speed limit on highways, motorways or freeways.” With the help of market research company footprints, Budget Directasked residents across Australia to anonymously reveal their driving habits when it comes to speeding and the results are of grave concern.

Again, the concept requires some thought, not just sound bites out of context.

If I had responded to that survey I would have likely indicated that, yes, I speed on highways (but probably not motorways or freeways). When I do, it is invariably when there’s A) bugger all other traffic around (‘cos it’s sometime between 2400 hrs and 0500 hrs) and B) I’m the only one in the car. And, yes, I will sometimes drop the hammer in an urban environment for a short burst to improve my safety (by thereby having fewer cars around me).

But (and here’s a bit of a critical perspective) I more usually creep around like Hector the Safety Cat around town and rarel go over any posted limits. Driving around me, you’d swear I have a wardrobe full of beige cardies (I don’t). AND, the reason I do that is as a simple defence against the f-stick hammering along Limestone at 90 k because “speed limits are stopid and I have a life to lead and places to be”. I am every bit capable of getting from Canberra to Brisbane in well under 12 hours safely and without any impact on others, or by placing anyone, including myself, at any risk of harm (done it plenty of times). But, I make the allowance for you, the f-stick, around town, because my skills and experience enables me to watch your roadcraft, your road placement, the way you ‘balance’ the car and transfer its mass as you pilot it around and I can instantly tell you haven’t got the slightest clue what you are doing. That you’ve either got your fog lights on, or that your car is grey, the street lights are on and you haven’t got even parkers on is another giveaway (or that you have oversize sunnies on and drive a Lancer).

So, in my mind, it’s more lies, damn lies and statistics . . . numbers that are meaningless without context.

stelita12:15 pm 19 Apr 11

WOW what a hot topic!
Well I’m female, I drive a ford, and I don’t wear sunglasses. I drive past the road works every day and when I see that 60 or 40kph sign I slow down and do exactly that. It doesn’t matter what the other cars are doing behind or infront of me, if by any chance there’s a radar check – and I have seen them on the odd occasion – I’m not going to be the one to get booked!

Just let the P platers and big sunglass ladies just fly by and don’t give them a second thought.

colourful sydney racing identity11:26 am 19 Apr 11

shadow boxer said :

Well from the first link

“Motorists are breaking the law,” according to car insurance provider Budget Direct, who say “29 per cent of drivers admit to speeding in residential areas while a further 60 per cent exceed the speed limit on highways, motorways or freeways.” With the help of market research company footprints, Budget Directasked residents across Australia to anonymously reveal their driving habits when it comes to speeding and the results are of grave concern.

Again, the concept requires some thought, not just sound bites out of context.

Funny that you make that comment about soundbites – if you go back and look at the first link, the quote you have used is contradicted later with the following:

‘In residential areas 25% admit to exceeding the speed limit by up to 10km/h and a reckless 4% admitted to 11km/h and over.’ (ie a total of 29%)

‘50% speed up to 10km/h over and a further 10% exceed the limit by 11km/h’ (ie a total of 60%)

You also include a Federally funded reoport that states:

‘A majority of drivers said they commonly drive at or below the speed limit in both 60km/hr
urban and 100km/hr rural zones. Just over half (54%) said they normally drive at the speed
limit in a 60km/hr urban zone, and a further 28% said they drive below the limit. Similar
proportions said they commonly drive at (45%) or below (25%) the limit in 100km/hr rural
zones.’

So it is ‘all over the internet’ yet you can provide no evidence of 80% of people that admit to ‘regularly speeding’ – and these are your words.

Sleaz27410:35 am 15 Apr 11

It used to be a law that all men in the village had to go practice archery on sunday after church openly in the town commons. It used to be a law that you had to have someone walking in front of your motor vehicle waving a red flag to warn pedestrians and carts. It used to be a law that you could own a few black people to mow your lawn, do the washing and harvest your fields. It used to be a law that on a new brides wedding night the lord of the land was entitled to take her to his bed chamber.

Laws are artificial constructs designed within a specific geo-historical context they are not written in stone by god and are only as good as the need they serve and effectiveness of their enforcement. Unfortunately our road laws are becoming slowly archaic as roads and road design get better, cars and car design gets better and better, speed limits between states become horribly inconsistent (see Tasmania for example their main highway is a two lane (one each way, not separated) windy stretch of road and the speed limit is 110km/h. Adelaide Avenue, Ginninderra Drive, Majura road, Barton Highway, Tuggers parkway, Gungahlin drive etc etc could all sustain this speed (or 100km/h).

Simply crying out it’s the law without a reasoned debate behind it is becoming overly pedantic. I’m not advocating breaking the law, but understanding how those laws came about and how we could change them or improve them is a far saner argument than simply stamping your feet, gnashing your teeth and giving someone the finger because they are doing a road 5% faster than you.

It is not a matter of being too important for the law, or too selfish to understand it. If there came into law in Australia tomorrow that you could only talk to a woman in the presence of her husband, brother or father how many people would follow it and would you all be on here screaming about 99% of people breaking the law? Well that is a law in some countries so why don’t we follow that here? Because it is culturally and morally wrong to us as Australians and we are quickly learning that ridiculous and inane and stupid laws in australia are commonly being disregarded by the greater majority of people. The risk of being in an accident compared to a lot of other places (south east asia, africa, middle east) is remarkably low and so people drive accordingly. Our main arterial highways from Melb, Syd, Bris could easily be 130km/h but we stick to a mind numbingly slow 110km/h and wonder why people fall asleep and die. We have a very low population density and thousands of kilometres of highway therefore our speeds should be consistently higher than they are presently.

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