Kings Highway. Have they learned nothing?

DarkLadyWolfMother said :

My first car was a 3-cylinder, less than one liter car. No fuel injection, no turbo. It didn’t stop me doing stupid things. Luck means I never wrapped myself around anything, but I gave it a few good tries. They’ll never match the acceleration/speed of the larger engines, but you can still make them do silly things.

Not a 500cc Suzuki Hatch? I had one of those. Silliest thing you could do with those was stuff them full of too many people. I did that.

OTOH, the 3 cylinder 900cc Charade was sprightly enough to get into trouble, yes.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

My first car was a Holden Torana, older than me, with the 173 cubic inch 6 and three on the tree.

Compared with modern cars it was very slow, and things (like loss of traction and sliding) happened at very low speeds.

Mine was a 1968 HK station wagon with a 253 V8 and three on the tree.

Went like a cut cat, handled like a boat and stopped like a jumbo jet.

Yet I managed to drive it down the coast many a time when the road was a shocker.

People simply need to slow down and be aware of their abilities as a driver. No stress, what’s 10-20 minutes?

Reminds me of my first driving forays down the Clyde in a XC Falcon Ute, auto (with the gears on the steering wheel), 4.1 litre 6 cylinder. The above describes its handling quite well! Very powerful, but the brake fade on the Clyde was downright scary, that was long before they smoothed out the curves and widened it too.

Nothing ever happened.

HenryBG said :

We could boost the Australian car industry by creating a new and unique “P-Plater” spec – a 3-cylinder go-go mobile to be the required car for the first 3 years of having a licence. People would moan, but people would be far, far safer.

My first car was a 3-cylinder, less than one liter car. No fuel injection, no turbo. It didn’t stop me doing stupid things. Luck means I never wrapped myself around anything, but I gave it a few good tries. They’ll never match the acceleration/speed of the larger engines, but you can still make them do silly things.

My first car was a Datsun Bluebird station wagon (auto). I always wonder whether I am a patient driver because of it – going up the Clyde I used to laugh at the signs telling me that the speed limit was 70km/h, because my car at high revs was barely pushing 35. There was no ability to show how fast I could drive, so I just never bothered, even when I later had cars that could do it easily.

My first car was a Holden Torana, older than me, with the 173 cubic inch 6 and three on the tree.

Compared with modern cars it was very slow, and things (like loss of traction and sliding) happened at very low speeds.

I-Filed – I was actually quoting someone else, the italics didn’t work.

I think the majority of cars on the road, regardless of p platers, are considered new.
I’m a unique snowflake because I drive a car from the 70’s 😛

Malteser said :

It would be more reasonable to assume that today’s learner and P-plate drivers would be driving cars from the early nineties, which for the most part are front-wheel drive econoboxes.

Have you not seen the carpark at UC lately? : o

KB1971 said :

Yup tmes have changed,My first car was a HG with a 186, slow as a wet week. My first Commodore, a VH 2850 5 speed would barely crack 145, Move onto a bog standard VN Commodore, it will do 200 (badly, they are bloody scary at that speed…..).

Heh, mine was a “trimatic” HQ. A hell of a lot of us are alive today because of those slow-moving tanks we made our first mistakes in.

KB1971 said :

The thing is what do they drive. Any 1600 or 2 litre 4 cylinder will do close to the double tonne, gone are the days of low power 4 cylinder cars..

We could boost the Australian car industry by creating a new and unique “P-Plater” spec – a 3-cylinder go-go mobile to be the required car for the first 3 years of having a licence. People would moan, but people would be far, far safer.

Someone overtook when you didn’t and now you’re upset… oh boo hoo hoo… cry me a river. The event you referred to didn’t lead to an accident and neither of the real accidents involved overtaking so get over yourself.

dtc said :

Well, I feel like an outsider here. I never ‘need’ to get to or from the coast by a particular time, so if someone is doing 80km/h I will think they are an idiot and then just relax behind them until I get to an overtaking lane or a very safe stretch of road. Any hint of another car coming the opposite way and I will just wait.

What do I care – at most its another 15 minutes or so. If I have to sit 100m behind a slow driver who has variable speed to stop running up his/her backside (which really isn’t that common) or a person in a caravan driving at 60 km/h, I know they arent doing it to me on purpose. Its just part of driving, like getting a red light.

I know how to overtake and drive on plenty of country roads where I need to, but the coast road needs to be respected. I go down that road probably 15 times per year, so I know it well.

Anyone who gets anxious or stressed about drivers in front of them, I can recommend some good podcasts and audio books.

Nicely said. 🙂 Especially the red light analogy. (Though I must admit that I do swear loudly if I get one of those runs on which every single light on Northbourne Ave goes red as I approach. But I have never felt tempted to just drive through it!)

HenryBG said :

[
I think P-platers should be *severely* limited in horsepower for the first 3 years, instead of being allowed 6-cylinder Commodores as they are now.

Yup tmes have changed,My first car was a HG with a 186, slow as a wet week. My first Commodore, a VH 2850 5 speed would barely crack 145, Move onto a bog standard VN Commodore, it will do 200 (badly, they are bloody scary at that speed…..).

The thing is what do they drive. Any 1600 or 2 litre 4 cylinder will do close to the double tonne, gone are the days of low power 4 cylinder cars.

If you want to limit P platers then speed limiters are the answer to that one.

Malteser said :

I’m not sure why you mentioned learner and P Platers??

He forgot tradies.

Personally, I narrowly avoided a head on at full speed when I happened to notice what looked like the very tops of the roofs of two vans around the next bend, side-by-side. I slammed the brakes on and prepared to leave the road and ended up just about nose to nose with him as he popped around the corner. Luckily he didn’t lose control and come off onto my verge where I had ended up. That would have been fairly lethal to me and my family, with a combined speed of at least 180km/h. @$%&ing tradie, of course.

Another head on I saw on the coastal pass not long ago was an impatient descending P-Plater decided to overtake by cutting the corner on a right-hand hairpin bend – ending up nose to nose with a Landcruiser coming up the other way. Luckily the combined speed was probably barely 50km/h.

I think P-platers should be *severely* limited in horsepower for the first 3 years, instead of being allowed 6-cylinder Commodores as they are now.

It would be more reasonable to assume that today’s learner and P-plate drivers would be driving cars from the early nineties, which for the most part are front-wheel drive econoboxes.

And I actually find on the Kings Highway it is not learner or P plate drivers that are the main problem, it is generally middle aged women and cashed-up-bogans-type mid twenties males.

I’m not sure why you mentioned learner and P Platers??

devils_advocate said :

Malteser said :

I would say that I am considering nearly everyone travelling that road is in a car no less than the year 2000 make.

Then you’re living in fantasy world. When I was in high school, the vast majority of us had cars that were built well before we were born (with the exception of a couple of rich kids whose parents bought them a car). And yes this was a private school. These cars were typically rear wheel drive sedans with modest engine capacities (1.8-2.0 four cyl) and modest power outputs.

It would be more reasonable to assume that today’s learner and P-plate drivers would be driving cars from the early nineties, which for the most part are front-wheel drive econoboxes.

When you were in high school was probably the same year man landed on the moon. I’m talking about 2012.

KB1971 said :

I personally think that overtaking is a skill not learned correctly by city drivers, no matter what city they are in. Most cities have dual carraigeways that allow you to dawdle along past the slower car without any real urgency. Yep, headcheck, indicate & cruise past with no real threat to having a head on.

That driver may spend 2-5 years driving around their city so they dont get the experience other than reading it in the exam to get their L plates.

So, this driver then heads to the snow from Sydney, all cool, 110 down the freeway until they get here & head out to Cooma. They then find themselves in a position where the slower vehicles are harder to get around & there are less oppourtunities. The little Corolla they are in is fully loaded & does not acellerate as well as it did at 60 because it is heavier, has more wind resistence at 100 in top gear. The skill of judging distances and speeds of approaching cars is a skill that is learned over time as well.

All of these factors can contribute to someone taking a chance & leaving it a bit late to overtake a car or overcooking it on a bend.

That makes sense.

KB1971 said :

c_c – Modern cruise controls do have method of slowing vehicles down, the current Falcon uses a combination of braking & transmission shifts, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes all have radar systems that prevent you getting too close to the car in front (among other things), my current car uses the transmission shifting and engine braking ect.

Active cruise control is something entirely different really and I wasn’t seeking to include that in my mentions of cruise control. Indeed Volvo is now releasing an updated version of its city safe that goes beyond radar control and includes two front firing cameras, running very advanced software that is capable of detecting people intelligently below certain speeds.

Regular cruise control can as you say apply some braking to slow a vehicle, but it’s very slow to react in my experience. The cruise control can easily go 10-15km/h over if you start going downhill before it kicks in to bring it down. It takes almost as long to kick in again going back up hill to accelerate. Very unpleasant when I tried it on the Kings.

Well, I feel like an outsider here. I never ‘need’ to get to or from the coast by a particular time, so if someone is doing 80km/h I will think they are an idiot and then just relax behind them until I get to an overtaking lane or a very safe stretch of road. Any hint of another car coming the opposite way and I will just wait.

What do I care – at most its another 15 minutes or so. If I have to sit 100m behind a slow driver who has variable speed to stop running up his/her backside (which really isn’t that common) or a person in a caravan driving at 60 km/h, I know they arent doing it to me on purpose. Its just part of driving, like getting a red light.

I know how to overtake and drive on plenty of country roads where I need to, but the coast road needs to be respected. I go down that road probably 15 times per year, so I know it well.

Anyone who gets anxious or stressed about drivers in front of them, I can recommend some good podcasts and audio books.

Malteser said :

I would say that I am considering nearly everyone travelling that road is in a car no less than the year 2000 make.

Then you’re living in fantasy world. When I was in high school, the vast majority of us had cars that were built well before we were born (with the exception of a couple of rich kids whose parents bought them a car). And yes this was a private school. These cars were typically rear wheel drive sedans with modest engine capacities (1.8-2.0 four cyl) and modest power outputs.

It would be more reasonable to assume that today’s learner and P-plate drivers would be driving cars from the early nineties, which for the most part are front-wheel drive econoboxes.

I personally think that overtaking is a skill not learned correctly by city drivers, no matter what city they are in. Most cities have dual carraigeways that allow you to dawdle along past the slower car without any real urgency. Yep, headcheck, indicate & cruise past with no real threat to having a head on.

That driver may spend 2-5 years driving around their city so they dont get the experience other than reading it in the exam to get their L plates.

So, this driver then heads to the snow from Sydney, all cool, 110 down the freeway until they get here & head out to Cooma. They then find themselves in a position where the slower vehicles are harder to get around & there are less oppourtunities. The little Corolla they are in is fully loaded & does not acellerate as well as it did at 60 because it is heavier, has more wind resistence at 100 in top gear. The skill of judging distances and speeds of approaching cars is a skill that is learned over time as well.

All of these factors can contribute to someone taking a chance & leaving it a bit late to overtake a car or overcooking it on a bend.

Then there are the dickheads but they have been mentioned here already.

c_c – Modern cruise controls do have method of slowing vehicles down, the current Falcon uses a combination of braking & transmission shifts, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes all have radar systems that prevent you getting too close to the car in front (among other things), my current car uses the transmission shifting and engine braking ect.

devils_advocate said :

Malteser said :

Everyone should drive the coast road in an old s*** box, that will make them appreciate the road conditions a bit better.

Anyone who ever spent any of their late teens in Canberra has done this many times. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

I would say that I am considering nearly everyone travelling that road is in a car no less than the year 2000 make.

I think it very much depends on the situation. I’m of the opinion that someone is welcome to overtake me, provided that they do it safely (and pref in an overtaking area). However I also feel that if you do overtake me it should not have any affect on my own speed. You should genuinely be driving faster than me, and that includes around the corners.

I hate it when I am driving along usually bang on 100km/h, and I get overtaken by someone who wants to simply be in the front who then drives at 95km/h, or wants to do 65km/h around 85km/h corners, but at overtaking sections 120km/h is more than an OK speed.

I will however do all I can to avoid an accident, and if I see you doing a dangerous overtake I will slow down very considerably to give them plenty of room to get back in and \ or give me plenty of room to brake (and hope the guy behind isn’t tailgating too badly).

GardeningGirl said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

HenryBG said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Overtaking is a skill that doesn’t seem to get a lot of focus any more, especially in Canberra, and yet it is one of the riskiest manoevres a driver will experience. Some of the overtaking I’ve seen on the Kings Hwy (and, for that matter, the Monaro Hwy in ski season) demonstrates that some drivers have never been taught to overtake.

*being overtaken* is also a skill apparently not learnt by the majority of drivers: if a car closes on you from behind with their right wheels on the dashed white line, that is a signal that they intend to overtake. The person being overtaken should ease off the accelerator in order to reduce the overtaking distance and thus increase the safety for all road users.

What we see instead is the idiot *being overtaken* puts the pedal to the metal on those very sections of the road where overtaking is possible (and slowing down everywhere else). This isn’t just inconsiderate, it is downright dangerous because it means overtaking cars spend longer in the opposing lane, overtaking drivers fail to correctly anticipate the overtaking distance required, and causes sudden bunching at the very next bend when the idiot slows back down again.

Be careful about expecting the person being overtaken to have any notion of this at all, if other comments in this thread are anything to go by.

I made a comment about not feeling obliged to ‘get out of the way’ regardless of circumstances but I want to clarify that I agree with this advice.
If I am being overtaken safely I am happy to slow down to enable the other car to spend as little time as possible on the wrong side, out of consideration for them. If I am being overtaken by an idiot I am prepared to slow down out of consideration for whoever might be coming the other way (but isn’t that trickier though because it’s harder to tell if the idiot will manage to get in front or pull back in behind again, unless I suppose you really brake hard to get idiot past asap, and that then has its own possible consequences).
Good point about skill not just in overtaking but in being overtaken.

You make a good point. I don’t think there will generally be a requirement to really slow down, but in some circumstances lifting off the throttle momentarily makes things easier for everyone.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

HenryBG said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Overtaking is a skill that doesn’t seem to get a lot of focus any more, especially in Canberra, and yet it is one of the riskiest manoevres a driver will experience. Some of the overtaking I’ve seen on the Kings Hwy (and, for that matter, the Monaro Hwy in ski season) demonstrates that some drivers have never been taught to overtake.

*being overtaken* is also a skill apparently not learnt by the majority of drivers: if a car closes on you from behind with their right wheels on the dashed white line, that is a signal that they intend to overtake. The person being overtaken should ease off the accelerator in order to reduce the overtaking distance and thus increase the safety for all road users.

What we see instead is the idiot *being overtaken* puts the pedal to the metal on those very sections of the road where overtaking is possible (and slowing down everywhere else). This isn’t just inconsiderate, it is downright dangerous because it means overtaking cars spend longer in the opposing lane, overtaking drivers fail to correctly anticipate the overtaking distance required, and causes sudden bunching at the very next bend when the idiot slows back down again.

Be careful about expecting the person being overtaken to have any notion of this at all, if other comments in this thread are anything to go by.

I made a comment about not feeling obliged to ‘get out of the way’ regardless of circumstances but I want to clarify that I agree with this advice.
If I am being overtaken safely I am happy to slow down to enable the other car to spend as little time as possible on the wrong side, out of consideration for them. If I am being overtaken by an idiot I am prepared to slow down out of consideration for whoever might be coming the other way (but isn’t that trickier though because it’s harder to tell if the idiot will manage to get in front or pull back in behind again, unless I suppose you really brake hard to get idiot past asap, and that then has its own possible consequences).
Good point about skill not just in overtaking but in being overtaken.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

HenryBG said :

“… so they speed out into the other lane, try to overtake as many cars as possible and then cut off whoever they can to get back into the correct lane to avoid oncoming traffic….”

I remember when the Hume was single lane. Back in those days, to get anywhere, everybody had to know how to overtake. Nowadays, with so many multi-lane divided highways everywhere, I see a great many people like yourself who seem to find the whole notion of overtaking scary and outrageous.
The King’s Highway is just like the Hume was back then, only it’s much shorter.

I’m not going to sit behind an idiot whose speed fluctuates constantly in response to every scary bend and scary crest, and who slow down to gawk at any road incident they notice.
Those people, I will overtake. I will be much safer with them safely *behind* me, and me actually travelling at a consistent speed.
Of course, when it *is* safe to overtake them, these idiots speed up, making the overtaking far less safe than it could be.

I totally agree with the poster above who noted that the busy times on the King’s are entirely predictable, and anybody with even half a brain would choose to not use it at those times. If you’re going down for the weekend, take Friday off work. Take Monday off. Drive home at the crack of dawn. It isn’t difficult.

This is spot on. The Kings Hwy is like a lot of NSW rural roads, and requires understanding and experience.

Like HenryBG, I will overtake drivers who don’t maintain a consistent speed, and/or want to cruise below the speed limit. I will generally overtake quickly to minimise time in the right hand lane, but will only do so on broken lines where there is sufficient visibility and space.

Overtaking is a skill that doesn’t seem to get a lot of focus any more, especially in Canberra, and yet it is one of the riskiest manoevres a driver will experience. Some of the overtaking I’ve seen on the Kings Hwy (and, for that matter, the Monaro Hwy in ski season) demonstrates that some drivers have never been taught to overtake.

I just want to emphasise that there’s a difference between making a reasonable decision to overtake one vehicle when there’s a safe opportunity and deciding to overtake everyone/as many as you can regardless of any other factors. Interesting idea though, is it possible that some people are so used to good roads and dual carriageways that they really don’t understand rural roads? They’re so used to zooming along the right lane on the parkway they don’t understand zooming on the wrong side of a rural road is NOT quite the same thing? I tried to remember what I was taught. I suppose you need to be taught what unbroken lines mean and you need to be told about potential hazards like kangaroos and potholes (not exclusive to rural roads though for a Canberran), but isn’t the rest common sense? Don’t be on the wrong side of the road longer than you have to be because people going the other way use that side of the road, don’t be on the wrong side of the road when you can’t see over a crest or around a bend because people going the other way use that side of the road. Do people really need to be taught that there are other people in the world to consider? 🙁
I just remembered an interview with a driving instructor on the radio years ago who said preparation for driving and instilling the right attitude should start very much younger, and having seen what I saw at our primary school at the time I could only agree. There were rules about where bikes/scooters/skateboards were allowed to be used and there were rules about where not to run and there were rules about how to behave on stairs and ramps, and they were ignored and the teachers turned a blind eye to it. Coming out of doorways and around corners resulted in some close calls. (I just thought of the expressions reactive safety and proactive safety, turns out there IS such a concept, I don’t know, perhaps somebody used the term here earlier?) So anyway my point is you can’t let kids get accustomed to that and then a decade or so later you hand them the car keys and expect them to suddenly have a completely different way of thinking about rules and about responsibility to the people around them. I think the driving instructor was absolutely right, preparation for the privilege of having a licence to drive a ton of metal should start much earlier.

HenryBG said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Overtaking is a skill that doesn’t seem to get a lot of focus any more, especially in Canberra, and yet it is one of the riskiest manoevres a driver will experience. Some of the overtaking I’ve seen on the Kings Hwy (and, for that matter, the Monaro Hwy in ski season) demonstrates that some drivers have never been taught to overtake.

*being overtaken* is also a skill apparently not learnt by the majority of drivers: if a car closes on you from behind with their right wheels on the dashed white line, that is a signal that they intend to overtake. The person being overtaken should ease off the accelerator in order to reduce the overtaking distance and thus increase the safety for all road users.

What we see instead is the idiot *being overtaken* puts the pedal to the metal on those very sections of the road where overtaking is possible (and slowing down everywhere else). This isn’t just inconsiderate, it is downright dangerous because it means overtaking cars spend longer in the opposing lane, overtaking drivers fail to correctly anticipate the overtaking distance required, and causes sudden bunching at the very next bend when the idiot slows back down again.

Be careful about expecting the person being overtaken to have any notion of this at all, if other comments in this thread are anything to go by.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

Overtaking is a skill that doesn’t seem to get a lot of focus any more, especially in Canberra, and yet it is one of the riskiest manoevres a driver will experience. Some of the overtaking I’ve seen on the Kings Hwy (and, for that matter, the Monaro Hwy in ski season) demonstrates that some drivers have never been taught to overtake.

*being overtaken* is also a skill apparently not learnt by the majority of drivers: if a car closes on you from behind with their right wheels on the dashed white line, that is a signal that they intend to overtake. The person being overtaken should ease off the accelerator in order to reduce the overtaking distance and thus increase the safety for all road users.

What we see instead is the idiot *being overtaken* puts the pedal to the metal on those very sections of the road where overtaking is possible (and slowing down everywhere else). This isn’t just inconsiderate, it is downright dangerous because it means overtaking cars spend longer in the opposing lane, overtaking drivers fail to correctly anticipate the overtaking distance required, and causes sudden bunching at the very next bend when the idiot slows back down again.

HenryBG said :

“… so they speed out into the other lane, try to overtake as many cars as possible and then cut off whoever they can to get back into the correct lane to avoid oncoming traffic….”

I remember when the Hume was single lane. Back in those days, to get anywhere, everybody had to know how to overtake. Nowadays, with so many multi-lane divided highways everywhere, I see a great many people like yourself who seem to find the whole notion of overtaking scary and outrageous.
The King’s Highway is just like the Hume was back then, only it’s much shorter.

I’m not going to sit behind an idiot whose speed fluctuates constantly in response to every scary bend and scary crest, and who slow down to gawk at any road incident they notice.
Those people, I will overtake. I will be much safer with them safely *behind* me, and me actually travelling at a consistent speed.
Of course, when it *is* safe to overtake them, these idiots speed up, making the overtaking far less safe than it could be.

I totally agree with the poster above who noted that the busy times on the King’s are entirely predictable, and anybody with even half a brain would choose to not use it at those times. If you’re going down for the weekend, take Friday off work. Take Monday off. Drive home at the crack of dawn. It isn’t difficult.

This is spot on. The Kings Hwy is like a lot of NSW rural roads, and requires understanding and experience.

Like HenryBG, I will overtake drivers who don’t maintain a consistent speed, and/or want to cruise below the speed limit. I will generally overtake quickly to minimise time in the right hand lane, but will only do so on broken lines where there is sufficient visibility and space.

Overtaking is a skill that doesn’t seem to get a lot of focus any more, especially in Canberra, and yet it is one of the riskiest manoevres a driver will experience. Some of the overtaking I’ve seen on the Kings Hwy (and, for that matter, the Monaro Hwy in ski season) demonstrates that some drivers have never been taught to overtake.

The real danger on that stretch of road stems from the wankers who insist on pulling along a boat or a trailer jam packed full of their holiday shit at 20kms under the speed limit! Pull over for Christ sake. Can they not see the 20 cars banked up behind them!?

I just dont understand how you can be oblivious to traffic behind you, it leads to people taking silly risks like overtaking in unfamiliar areas.

smont said :

yellowsnow said :

But as a general rule – take the nicest, most relaxed person, put them behind the wheel of a car and they can become a completely different person, taking more risks and displaying more aggression than they would ever in person.

This is quite an interesting phenomenon if you think about it. When you’re walking through the local mall, how often do you have people pushing to get past, walking right up your arse to make the point that you’re walking too slow, or swearing or giving the finger because you walked too close in front of them or walked out of a shop in front of them? You’ve got to admit it’s pretty rare. Why is it that when we get behind the wheel, respect for those around us seems to evaporate and it’s all about “number one” getting ahead??

There are some inter-related phenomenon going on here. The personality change is thought to be affected by various concepts.
1. Expansion of the limit of what is considered “personal space” to the outsides of the vehicle.
2. Lack of interpreting a vehicle as another person, so bypassing the interpersonal relationship protocols which normally exist.
3. Capabilities felt by the extension of the illusion of power given by being in control of a vehicle.
4. Increased feelings of injustice provided by misaligned legal interpretations of road rules.
5. People just having a bad day and many other things.

I find the sociological aspects of interpersonal traffic relationships fascinating in the ACT. The traffic is reasonably good, with brief episodes of it sucking as bad as revisiting the original Battlestar Galactica TV episodes. It brings out certain characteristics in the drivers here. They’re not as accepting of bad conditions, so it brings more apparent angst when it happens.

Even something as simple as what is on my car stereo has a significant change in my driving attitude. A good audiobook will make me not care about the actions of anyone. Various bits of music in my car collection drastically affect my tyre wear, fuel consumption and judgmental of others decision making process or mental ability.

the said :

Link below to a traffic and road condition study conducted by the NSW RTA on the traffic corridor between Queanbeyan and Batemans Bay. It is very interesting reading.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadprojects/projects/south_eastern_region/queanbeyan_bb_corridor_strategy/documents/kingshwy_final_sept_09.pdf

Nice link, thanks.
In summary, the road is crap, but it doesn’t see an unusual amount of incidents compared with other NSW roads.

The overall average casualty crash rate of 0.44 per km per year was
greater than the statewide average of 0.37 per km per year for all
‘Class 3 Rural’ roads in NSW.However,most of the Kings Highway,
[…], can also
be described as a ‘Rural Undivided Carriageway’, and the Kings
Highway’s average casualty crash rate per km was significantly lower
than the average of 1.13 per km per year for all ‘Rural Undivided
Carriageways’ in the state’s Southern Region over the same period.

Between January 2003 and December 2007 there were 27.5
casualty crashes per 100 million vehicle kilometres travelled on the
128 km of the Kings Highway located within NSW, marginally below
the average of 27.6 for all ‘Rural Undivided Carriageways’ in the
Southern Region (Road Safety Indicators Report 2005–2007).

The number of casualty crashes per 100 million vehicle kilometres
travelled ranged from 12.3 on the section between the eastern ACT
border and Bungendore to 52.3 on the Clyde Mountain section of
the corridor (Figure 4.7), and was generally highest on the eastern
sections of the Kings Highway, which have lower traffic volumes but
poorer alignments.

“… so they speed out into the other lane, try to overtake as many cars as possible and then cut off whoever they can to get back into the correct lane to avoid oncoming traffic….”

I remember when the Hume was single lane. Back in those days, to get anywhere, everybody had to know how to overtake. Nowadays, with so many multi-lane divided highways everywhere, I see a great many people like yourself who seem to find the whole notion of overtaking scary and outrageous.
The King’s Highway is just like the Hume was back then, only it’s much shorter.

I’m not going to sit behind an idiot whose speed fluctuates constantly in response to every scary bend and scary crest, and who slow down to gawk at any road incident they notice.
Those people, I will overtake. I will be much safer with them safely *behind* me, and me actually travelling at a consistent speed.
Of course, when it *is* safe to overtake them, these idiots speed up, making the overtaking far less safe than it could be.

I totally agree with the poster above who noted that the busy times on the King’s are entirely predictable, and anybody with even half a brain would choose to not use it at those times. If you’re going down for the weekend, take Friday off work. Take Monday off. Drive home at the crack of dawn. It isn’t difficult.

Sorry if this has been posted…

The one I love is the driver who holds everyone up doing 80kms in a 100kms zone but then, when they reach a town…continue doing 80, but now in a 60 zone! (Just thought of it – maybe they’ve got their cruise control on…lol)

My apologies if this has already been posted.

Link below to a traffic and road condition study conducted by the NSW RTA on the traffic corridor between Queanbeyan and Batemans Bay. It is very interesting reading.

It describes the deficiencies in the road conditions, and discusses the challenges facing upgrading the road and potential ways forward. List short term and long term priorities.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadprojects/projects/south_eastern_region/queanbeyan_bb_corridor_strategy/documents/kingshwy_final_sept_09.pdf

c_c said :

And if you think you can have 360 degree awareness in a vehicle, you need to lose your licence. There’s these things called blind spots, and unless you do a head check rather than a mirror check, you can’t see inside them… hence if you believe you have a panorama over everything just from the mirrors, you’r probably one of those jerks whose tried to change lanes while someone is in your blind spot..

You have missed, and proved, Yellowsnow’s point. If you are doing what they’re advocating, you KNOW when someone’s in your blind spot because you’ve been tracking them. Today I noticed a motorbike that had been behind me had disappeared. Bugger’s in my right blind spot, I figured. Seconds later, he cruised up next to me.

You should be aware of who is behind you. Not by “checking your mirrors every 30 seconds” but by knowing that you have to keep an eye on everything around you.

c_c said :

And if you think you can have 360 degree awareness in a vehicle, you need to lose your licence. There’s these things called blind spots, and unless you do a head check rather than a mirror check, you can’t see inside them… hence if you believe you have a panorama over everything just from the mirrors, you’r probably one of those jerks whose tried to change lanes while someone is in your blind spot.

Bravo.

Clearly you’re yet to experience ‘being in the Zone’ while driving. Maybe anger issues, overthinking things or driving in GDE traffic get in the way. Or perhaps you just misunderstand the term. Panoramic awareness doesn’t mean seeing absolutely everything, it means being spatially aware, in your mind and intuitively based on all evidence in your field of perception, what’s happening around you, not just wherever you happen to be looking. You may not be able to see blindspots but your mind fills in the gaps using other information, such ‘hold on, there was a car in my side mirror a second ago, where did it go – it must be in the blind spot!’. You may not see it it but you feel it’s there, based on the mental map your mind creates. Sure enough, when you check your blindspot – there it is – and you don’t change lanes at that instant.

c_c said :

.. two slow to accelerate on assent …

Classic – at least you know the fundamentals of using a spell checker. 🙂

yellowsnow said :

Experienced drivers have panoramic awareness of their surroundings, incl the rearview mirror and speedo, rather than intently focusing on one thing in particular (like the bumper on the car in front, or the speedo, or the destination, or their workday). In the beginning, when learning, you have to force yourself to do adopt this 360 degree awareness but after a while it becomes second nature and you don’t think about it at all

If you need to consciously force yourself to look in the rearview mirror every 30 secs, or don’t check it at all, you really should still be on your Ps or Ls.

In bumper to bumper traffic on the GDE or Parkway, I’m going to look in my rear view mirror every 30secs… oh yes, that’s sure to work.

You can’t change what’s going on behind you, but a bit of inattention to what’s ahead is your fault.

And if you think you can have 360 degree awareness in a vehicle, you need to lose your licence. There’s these things called blind spots, and unless you do a head check rather than a mirror check, you can’t see inside them… hence if you believe you have a panorama over everything just from the mirrors, you’r probably one of those jerks whose tried to change lanes while someone is in your blind spot.

Bravo.

c_c said :

KB1971 said :

I am not sure what other people are talking about but cruise control is a fantastic thing. It pretty well takes the worry out of your trip being able to set your speed. You then can concentrate on where you are going & looking out for hazards that may arise rather than your speedometer every 30 seconds. A split second looking at your speedo can mean you miss a roo or something else that may be crossing in your path. I personally get foot cramps when driving long distances so it is good to minimse them.

Funny you should mention looking at the speedo every 30secs, because it reminds me about some real dodgy advice that is in the ACT Road Ready course that says regardless of context, you should check your rear and side mirrors every 15-30secs. Think someone really needs to look into that, doesn’t sound wise at all.

Regarding your comments about cruise control and maintaining speed:

* Cruise control on a windy road is a very poor way to regulate speed, it is often two slow to accelerate on assent and cannot be relied on to keep you below the limit.

* If you are familiar with your vehicle, you should not need to monitor the speed often, the sounds an feel of the vehicle is enough. I once set the Overspeed warning in my vehicle and proceeded to drive a long 100km/h stretch on the Kings Hwy, didn’t set it off once despite never looking at the speedo. You can just feel it if you know your car.

* Cruise control is not reliable in instances of impaired traction, such a wet or slippery roads, worn tyres or loose gravel on the road or verge. The default action for a car with cruise control where it encounters that is to increase power to compensate and maintain speed. That could lead to a loss of control. This is mitigated in vehicles with ESC and TC.

I see what you did there, you left out the bit where I talked about using judgement as a driver 😉

c_c said :

* If you are familiar with your vehicle, you should not need to monitor the speed often, the sounds an feel of the vehicle is enough. I once set the Overspeed warning in my vehicle and proceeded to drive a long 100km/h stretch on the Kings Hwy, didn’t set it off once despite never looking at the speedo. You can just feel it if you know your car.

So what did you set your overspeed warning to? 100km/h? 110? 120? 150? It kinda makes a difference.

Also, I’d much rather be a passenger in a vehicle with a driver who regularly checks his speed against the speedo, rather than relying on some zen-like connection to the car. What exactly are you trying to prove here?

yellowsnow said :

But as a general rule – take the nicest, most relaxed person, put them behind the wheel of a car and they can become a completely different person, taking more risks and displaying more aggression than they would ever in person.

This is quite an interesting phenomenon if you think about it. When you’re walking through the local mall, how often do you have people pushing to get past, walking right up your arse to make the point that you’re walking too slow, or swearing or giving the finger because you walked too close in front of them or walked out of a shop in front of them? You’ve got to admit it’s pretty rare. Why is it that when we get behind the wheel, respect for those around us seems to evaporate and it’s all about “number one” getting ahead??

c_c said :

Funny you should mention looking at the speedo every 30secs, because it reminds me about some real dodgy advice that is in the ACT Road Ready course that says regardless of context, you should check your rear and side mirrors every 15-30secs. Think someone really needs to look into that, doesn’t sound wise at all.

Nope, Road Ready advice is very sensible. If you’re in ‘The zone’ (as good drivers should be at all times, at least when not distracted by mobiles, kids, spouses etc) you should automatically/subconsciously be checking mirrors and speedo all the time anyway. Experienced drivers have panoramic awareness of their surroundings, incl the rearview mirror and speedo, rather than intently focusing on one thing in particular (like the bumper on the car in front, or the speedo, or the destination, or their workday). In the beginning, when learning, you have to force yourself to do adopt this 360 degree awareness but after a while it becomes second nature and you don’t think about it at all

If you need to consciously force yourself to look in the rearview mirror every 30 secs, or don’t check it at all, you really should still be on your Ps or Ls.

As I said in a previous RiotACT post, autonomous cars aren’t that far away. Autonomous cars will reduce the accident rate considerably.
Every year our cars get smarter and better at accident avoidance and have higher levels of safety in the event of an accident.
While many may scoff at the idea that cars will be driving themselves, the reality is that experimental cars such as the Google car have clocked up 100s of thousands of kms driving themselves. This year’s Audi A8 will have a ‘traffic jam’ mode meaning the car can steer, brake, follow the car in front and follow lanes at speeds up to 60km/h. The best technology filters to the cheapest car. A base model car now has stability control, making it extremely difficult to lose control of a vehicle in a corner. The US state of Nevada has just passed a law allowing the use of autonomous vehicles. RioTinto is investing in driverless trains and mining equipment. The list goes on.

The biggest real world challenge to autonomous vehicles will be the legal liability issue. Long after self driving cars are a common product, there will still be a requirement for a human to be responsible for the progress of the vehicle. As people become more comfortable with the concept and the tech gets better, there will be a tipping point and it will be safer to have cars driving themselves than humans. An autonomous car can see 360 degrees around it, never loses concentration, obeys road laws and can ‘see’ through fog and rain.

To me, that’s the shining beacon of light in the road safety discussions here.

G-Fresh said :

your oveanalysis of such a small factor involved in driving – crusie control for those tuning in at home – indicates sufficient stupidity to indicate the alarming danger you present when operating a motor vehicle.

Actually it’s paraphrasing the very basic warnings contained in car instruction manuals that has at the top in bold text a warning that failure to abide by these cautions could result in death or serious injury.

Knowing the limitations of driver aids in dealing with road conditions and vehicle dynamics indicates the contrary of what you claim. If all you can contribute to this thread is personal attacks, it says a lot about your lack of character and lack of skill behind the wheel.

your oveanalysis of such a small factor involved in driving – crusie control for those tuning in at home – indicates sufficient stupidity to indicate the alarming danger you present when operating a motor vehicle.

KB1971 said :

I am not sure what other people are talking about but cruise control is a fantastic thing. It pretty well takes the worry out of your trip being able to set your speed. You then can concentrate on where you are going & looking out for hazards that may arise rather than your speedometer every 30 seconds. A split second looking at your speedo can mean you miss a roo or something else that may be crossing in your path. I personally get foot cramps when driving long distances so it is good to minimse them.

Funny you should mention looking at the speedo every 30secs, because it reminds me about some real dodgy advice that is in the ACT Road Ready course that says regardless of context, you should check your rear and side mirrors every 15-30secs. Think someone really needs to look into that, doesn’t sound wise at all.

Regarding your comments about cruise control and maintaining speed:

* Cruise control on a windy road is a very poor way to regulate speed, it is often two slow to accelerate on assent and cannot be relied on to keep you below the limit.

* If you are familiar with your vehicle, you should not need to monitor the speed often, the sounds an feel of the vehicle is enough. I once set the Overspeed warning in my vehicle and proceeded to drive a long 100km/h stretch on the Kings Hwy, didn’t set it off once despite never looking at the speedo. You can just feel it if you know your car.

* Cruise control is not reliable in instances of impaired traction, such a wet or slippery roads, worn tyres or loose gravel on the road or verge. The default action for a car with cruise control where it encounters that is to increase power to compensate and maintain speed. That could lead to a loss of control. This is mitigated in vehicles with ESC and TC.

harvyk1 said :

aidan said :

What you want is a speed limiter. We’ve got it in our Renault it is bloody marvellous.

I used to use the cruise control a fair bit in similar conditions to that which you describe, but eventually I found it just a little too dicey. If you’ve got continuous control of the throttle you almost always end up scrubbing a little speed off before going into most corners. The cruise control just jams you into the corner irrespective of conditions, camber etc. Sometimes I ended up breaking in the middle of the corner if it was a little too fast. Bad bad bad.

The speed limiter is fantastic. Set the speed and it won’t exceed it unless you really jam the accelerator pedal down. You have that constant control of the accelerator without the worry of a ticket. I’d highly recommend this feature to anyone considering buying another car.

I have no problem adjusting the cruise control as it’s controlled via a set of switches next to my right hand, thus it’s very easy to adjust as required. If the corner looks like I really do need to slow down for it I’ll turn cruise control off, as along the kings most of those types of corners are near to each other.

I hear you, it was the same in my car. But honestly, the fingers have to find the button, fiddle with it, reacquaint the right foot with the accelerator pedal, it all takes time compared to just taking the foot off the accelerator.

I found the multiple steps with the cruise was taking too long, I’d already be carrying a higher speed than I was really comfortable with into a corner.

The speed limiter was a revelation. It was like “oh yeah! this is what I wanted”. I don’t think cruise control is really safe where any significant cornering is required.

harvyk1 said :

Just out of interest, with your speed limiter do you ever have problems with wanting just a little bit more power to assist you say around a corner?

No, because in those situations I’ve almost always slowed down a little on the entry. You can always stab the accelerator and get a little more power out.

The speed limiter is much safer, as the default position is for the car to lose speed rather than maintain it. Honestly, it is bloody marvellous.

Sure there isn’t quite the release of stress on the right foot, but it is a fair bit more relaxing as you’re not holding it in a very fixed position trying not to exceed the limit.

GardeningGirl said :

KB1971 said :

GardeningGirl said :

I don’t really know anything about cruise control, don’t have it, don’t use it, but since it has been mentioned I just saw this article in the Canberra Times.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/crash-survivor-warns-drivers-20120312-1uwqy.html

Bahahahahahaha, worst piece of journalism ever. A bad tradesman neve blamed his tools. The woman that hit her husband fell asleep & was witnessed wandering all over the road prior to the accident, the cruise control had nothing to do with it.

GG, go back & read the article again. The facts are in there & the investigators would not have a clue if the cruise control was actually working (it may have been switched on but they cant tell if it was operating) at the time of the accident unless the woman blamed it to cover up for the fact she was driving while she was tired.

The part about “the highway’s frequently changing nature” made sense to me AND in that accident the driver fell asleep, so I read it as giving TWO reasons why cruise control can be undesirable, but I’m happy to read experienced people’s explanations of how they use it, like harvyk1.

I am not sure what other people are talking about but cruise control is a fantastic thing. It pretty well takes the worry out of your trip being able to set your speed. You then can concentrate on where you are going & looking out for hazards that may arise rather than your speedometer every 30 seconds. A split second looking at your speedo can mean you miss a roo or something else that may be crossing in your path. I personally get foot cramps when driving long distances so it is good to minimse them.

There are many places that they can be used on the Kings Highway using your judgement, Burbong (before Sparrow hill), along the flat into Bungendore, on & off in the open country between Bungendore & Braidwood & a little out the eastern side before it gets windy.

I do not use while I am behind other vehicles or in windy areas with tightening radius corners ect. I find that it reduces fatigue on trips. Cruise control is not for lazy drivers. I did not use it once on the way home yesterday as we come home through Araluen & then the traffic was too heavy on the Kings.

Given the woman in the article crashed on Boxing day I would hazard a guess that the person at fault had overdone it the day beofore & had a late night before causing her to fall asleep.

johnboy said :

The sooner we get fully automated cars the happier we’ll all be.

There’s definitely a lot of merit to, if not full automation, then the suite of crash avoidance and mitigations technologies out there. http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor-news/volvo-pedestrian-avoidance-system-20090918-fv2y.html

The problem is adoption. Lane departure warning and intervention, adaptive radar cruise control, wide field and adaptive intensity headlights, blind spot detection – they’ve been on the market for many, many years overseas but only in premium cars, and even then for the most part as expensive options.

No doubt they’ll become more affordable and common, just as ABC, ESC and TC have become. But in the meantime they’re only good to the 1% that have it.

I think this is something where government can be blamed to an extent. The Australian Design Standard for cars is very old fashioned, it tools years to even add a second air bag to the specs. I can’t help but wonder how many accidents could have been avoided and lives saved if the standard had mandated ESC and Traction Control on vehicles years ago. They’re not fail safe, but my god they can do wonders in critical situations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR1SSxpKitE

Malteser said :

Everyone should drive the coast road in an old s*** box, that will make them appreciate the road conditions a bit better.

Anyone who ever spent any of their late teens in Canberra has done this many times. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.

c_c said :

Why am I not surprised the use of your right hand to manipulate something is easy for you.

Cruise control on the Kings = bone lazy, incompetent and unsafe driver.

You say IF you see a corner you really need to slow down for?

I take that to mean for most corners you just keep the foot down going 90-100… hey, no sweat. If you find a tree it’s you that pays. But it’s just as likely you’ll find another car, with people who will pay for your stupidity.

You telling me you use you left hand for that sort of manipulation? Each to their own… 😉

Yes, in good conditions, I have no qualms in letting the car coast around the corner on cruise control at 90 – 100km/h. If I feel that is perhaps a little fast I will apply the brake (automatically disengaging the cruise control) or press the disengage button to bleed off some speed prior to entering a corner.

I take each corner based on my knowledge of that corner, the cars condition, the road conditions (including traffic and weather) and make judgement calls on the actual safe speed based on those factors. Sometimes I will come up with a much higher speed than the advisory and sometimes I’ll come up with a speed which is slower than the advisory, either way over the last 14 odd years I’ve been driving I’ve always gone around the corner as expected without going across lanes, with one exception, when I was pretty young and I was forced to cut into the other lane after entering a corner at a way too higher speed, no on-coming car (it was pretty late so luckily that was unlikely) but lets just say lesson learnt, I won’t repeat that again.

johnboy said :

How does removing a source of driver stimulation reduce the chance of falling asleep?

I don’t consider cruise control removing a source of driver stimulation, I consider it removing a distraction so I can concentrate on the road without having to keep a vigil on the speedo to make sure I don’t accidentally do 101km/h. I also have a speed alert in my car which I’ll set to either 105 or 110km/h so I get an alert if my speed does creep up going down hills. (which is actually 102km/h or 107km/h respectively, the speedo is calibrated for 19″ wheels and I’ve only got 17″ wheels, thus the known difference).

johnboy said :

The sooner we get fully automated cars the happier we’ll all be.

The sooner we get well-educated and competent drivers, the happier I’ll be.

johnboy said :

The sooner we get fully automated cars the happier we’ll all be.

Only if the automation can be switched on/off as required. 😉

johnboy said :

How does removing a source of driver stimulation reduce the chance of falling asleep?

Who said that?

If the bereaved wife is correct and the at fault driver was still asleep after the accident I think it would be a long bow to suggest that cruise control played any major role in her falling asleep.

I’m struggling to follow the assertion here that use of cruise control is directly responsible for motorists failing to pay attention. But maybe that’s just me.

Give it a few more years and many more new cars will have radar/laser guided cruise control. That’s actually a very nifty system from the one-time sample I had a year or two back. A mid-range Focus now features such technology.

EvanJames said :

I’m a bit surprised people use cruise control on that road. It’s a “normal” road, with hills and curves and things, I guess my view is coloured by driving an old and basic car (it’s not a shitbox though, it’s a good car), but I need to be actually driving the car on that road, adjusting throttle up and down, using it for traction on curves etc, boosting it a bit when I see a hill coming up. I’d see cruise control as being for roads like the Hume.

I don’t drive Kings Hwy all that much, but I did 600km or so of driving in country NSW a couple of weeks back and I was planning not to use cruise control for the reasons you mentioned. I found that I did switch cruise on and just flicked the stalk back to temporarily cancel as required.

The attention required here, I would say, is equal to the attention required if modulating the throttle manually at all times. It’s just the first option gives your right foot a bit of a rest.

From what I do know of the Kings Hwy there would certainly be sections where cruise control would be totally inappropriate and some sections where it would be totally fine to use, assuming it was easy enough to cancel when necessary.

And then anybody who is caught gets charged with attempted manslaughter (why not call it what it is, even if they got lucky and didn’t hit another car) and released on a good behaviour bond with a speed limiter installed on their car, and can I add, a big sticker on their car saying “I have a speed limiter because I am a thoughtless [expletive]”.

GardeningGirl said :

KB1971 said :

GardeningGirl said :

I don’t really know anything about cruise control, don’t have it, don’t use it, but since it has been mentioned I just saw this article in the Canberra Times.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/crash-survivor-warns-drivers-20120312-1uwqy.html

Bahahahahahaha, worst piece of journalism ever. A bad tradesman neve blamed his tools. The woman that hit her husband fell asleep & was witnessed wandering all over the road prior to the accident, the cruise control had nothing to do with it.

GG, go back & read the article again. The facts are in there & the investigators would not have a clue if the cruise control was actually working (it may have been switched on but they cant tell if it was operating) at the time of the accident unless the woman blamed it to cover up for the fact she was driving while she was tired.

The part about “the highway’s frequently changing nature” made sense to me AND in that accident the driver fell asleep, so I read it as giving TWO reasons why cruise control can be undesirable, but I’m happy to read experienced people’s explanations of how they use it, like harvyk1.

Yes, cruise control is not always suited to all types of roads.

But it’s far more preferable than falling asleep at the wheel.

Interesting comments by Aidan too.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

harvyk1 said :

Disinformation said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

booking people for acts of stupidity.

If ONLY acts of stupidity were illegal.
The police departments would be the single biggest employers on the planet and they’d all be working overtime.

I’m pretty sure doing 40km/h over the limit whilst overtaking around a blind corner and over double solid lines is illegal… As of all the actions I see people doing, this is the most likely to end badly not only for the car doing the illegal thing, but for some poor innocent sod who is sitting in a car going the other way.

Exactly. Crossing unbroken lines, speeding, etc are all offences for which a motorist can be booked.

The thing is the system seems to be set up to actively look for things like people going a little over the limit as they come down a hill on a dual carriageway (revenue raising) more than to catch the idiot “doing 40km/h over the limit whilst overtaking around a blind corner”. Perhaps what’s needed is cameras on sections with unbroken lines (I think someone already suggested something like that, cameras on notorious bends and the police waiting at Batemans Bay?) And then anybody who is caught gets charged with attempted manslaughter (why not call it what it is, even if they got lucky and didn’t hit another car) and released on a good behaviour bond with a speed limiter installed on their car (I didn’t know you could get them on cars).

Thank you vet111. A bit more “polite and courteous” from everyone will improve things quicker than waiting for governments to find all the money they need.

I’m a bit surprised people use cruise control on that road. It’s a “normal” road, with hills and curves and things, I guess my view is coloured by driving an old and basic car (it’s not a shitbox though, it’s a good car), but I need to be actually driving the car on that road, adjusting throttle up and down, using it for traction on curves etc, boosting it a bit when I see a hill coming up. I’d see cruise control as being for roads like the Hume.

harvyk1 said :

I have no problem adjusting the cruise control as it’s controlled via a set of switches next to my right hand, thus it’s very easy to adjust as required. If the corner looks like I really do need to slow down for it I’ll turn cruise control off, as along the kings most of those types of corners are near to each other.

Just out of interest, with your speed limiter do you ever have problems with wanting just a little bit more power to assist you say around a corner?

Why am I not surprised the use of your right hand to manipulate something is easy for you.

Cruise control on the Kings = bone lazy, incompetent and unsafe driver.

You say IF you see a corner you really need to slow down for?

I take that to mean for most corners you just keep the foot down going 90-100… hey, no sweat. If you find a tree it’s you that pays. But it’s just as likely you’ll find another car, with people who will pay for your stupidity.

KB1971 said :

GardeningGirl said :

I don’t really know anything about cruise control, don’t have it, don’t use it, but since it has been mentioned I just saw this article in the Canberra Times.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/crash-survivor-warns-drivers-20120312-1uwqy.html

Bahahahahahaha, worst piece of journalism ever. A bad tradesman neve blamed his tools. The woman that hit her husband fell asleep & was witnessed wandering all over the road prior to the accident, the cruise control had nothing to do with it.

GG, go back & read the article again. The facts are in there & the investigators would not have a clue if the cruise control was actually working (it may have been switched on but they cant tell if it was operating) at the time of the accident unless the woman blamed it to cover up for the fact she was driving while she was tired.

The part about “the highway’s frequently changing nature” made sense to me AND in that accident the driver fell asleep, so I read it as giving TWO reasons why cruise control can be undesirable, but I’m happy to read experienced people’s explanations of how they use it, like harvyk1.

aidan said :

harvyk1 said :

I use cruise control along any stretch which is relatively straight and the corners are pretty mild. It’s basically a license saver as I set it to 100km/h and I don’t then have to monitor the speedo quote so heavily knowing I probaby won’t go over.

What you want is a speed limiter. We’ve got it in our Renault it is bloody marvellous.

I used to use the cruise control a fair bit in similar conditions to that which you describe, but eventually I found it just a little too dicey. If you’ve got continuous control of the throttle you almost always end up scrubbing a little speed off before going into most corners. The cruise control just jams you into the corner irrespective of conditions, camber etc. Sometimes I ended up breaking in the middle of the corner if it was a little too fast. Bad bad bad.

The speed limiter is fantastic. Set the speed and it won’t exceed it unless you really jam the accelerator pedal down. You have that constant control of the accelerator without the worry of a ticket. I’d highly recommend this feature to anyone considering buying another car.

It is great in congested traffic too. You can easily slow down a little when coming up to cars doing a slightly lower speed without getting frustrated** that you’ve got to turn off/adjust the cruise.

** Go on, admit it, you know you get a little irritated when you have to adjust the cruise control

I have no problem adjusting the cruise control as it’s controlled via a set of switches next to my right hand, thus it’s very easy to adjust as required. If the corner looks like I really do need to slow down for it I’ll turn cruise control off, as along the kings most of those types of corners are near to each other.

Just out of interest, with your speed limiter do you ever have problems with wanting just a little bit more power to assist you say around a corner?

Everyone should drive the coast road in an old s*** box, that will make them appreciate the road conditions a bit better.

I don’t have a car with air bags all through it, power steering, abs brakes, crumple technology etc. And the funny thing is, I drive the speed limit (sometimes under, sometimes slightly over) and make it there safely in good time. I rarely overtake anyone, usually because overtaking lanes are uphill and my shit box doesn’t have the power. (I admit I get a little excited when I am able to overtake someone though, go old shitbox!!)

I do notice when coming into Bungendore, Braidwood or the round a bout at the bottom of the highway into the Bay, all the cars that were so desperate to overtake cars (not just me, but other cars) doing the speed limit and also driving dangerously and just plain rude by sitting right up the arse of everyone, are still in view on the bumper to bumper approaches. So really they’ve saved 3 -5 minutes by driving like a madman and having to overtake and any possibility. It makes no sense. That’s the unfortunate thing, you see these crazy people taking chances and risks and then at the end of the day they will get there maybe 5 minutes faster than you have.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Yellowsnow – What exactly have I admitted to and why are you getting police involved???? Stop hiding behind your computer and reveal your true identity if you are going to start making unfounded accusations – which are exactly what??? I have admitted nothing in my post nothing in my post except my opinion and feelings about the issue. All I have revealed of my actions was where and when I was yesterday, which if it is a crime to be somewhere at a certain time I’d like to know so I can avoid being there next time.
Get a life and stop trying to make yourself feel righteous with a nonsensical and false accusation which you fail to detail. Maybe I should call the moderators onto you for your bullying ways. Show some respect.

wildturkeycanoe – don’t worry, I’m not about to get the cops onto you, i was merely suggesting you should be careful what you say and admit to on these pages. From my experience (having worked in this area) the authorities (including police) monitor forums like this one, and flag people of interest. In retrospect your rant wasn’t as bad as some others, but you gave significant insight into the way you think, blaming everything on slow coaches while trying to justify reckless behaviour. I probably overreacted, but to my intel-trained trained mind, your comment instinctively stood out and implied a number of things about your temper and driving behaviour, past or present. Lucky for you we don’t live in a full on Big Brother / nanny state … yet!

harvyk1 said :

I use cruise control along any stretch which is relatively straight and the corners are pretty mild. It’s basically a license saver as I set it to 100km/h and I don’t then have to monitor the speedo quote so heavily knowing I probaby won’t go over.

What you want is a speed limiter. We’ve got it in our Renault it is bloody marvellous.

I used to use the cruise control a fair bit in similar conditions to that which you describe, but eventually I found it just a little too dicey. If you’ve got continuous control of the throttle you almost always end up scrubbing a little speed off before going into most corners. The cruise control just jams you into the corner irrespective of conditions, camber etc. Sometimes I ended up breaking in the middle of the corner if it was a little too fast. Bad bad bad.

The speed limiter is fantastic. Set the speed and it won’t exceed it unless you really jam the accelerator pedal down. You have that constant control of the accelerator without the worry of a ticket. I’d highly recommend this feature to anyone considering buying another car.

It is great in congested traffic too. You can easily slow down a little when coming up to cars doing a slightly lower speed without getting frustrated** that you’ve got to turn off/adjust the cruise.

** Go on, admit it, you know you get a little irritated when you have to adjust the cruise control

Secret Squirrel said :

Why can’t people towing caravans/boats etc pull over and let the traffic past when it’s building up behind them?

Er, because if it’s bumper to bumper traffic (as it probably was yesterday) that person will be stuck on the side of the road for ages, while the traffic is probably only travelling about 10kmh faster than that person?

As a slow driver in certain conditions, I will pull over and let people pass safely once there’s more than 3 cars behind me. However, I will only do this if I am travelling at more than 15kmh under the limit, and there’s too much traffic the other way for them to safely overtake, and it’s not heavy traffic whereby I won’t be able to get back on the road in a reasonable space of time (my limit is ten minutes). I would expect other slow drivers to do this as well (learners, truck drivers, caravans etc) but sadly it doesn’t happen. Still, that’s not going to stop me being polite and courteous.

Am surprised that with the number of people who believe “People drive like idiots on the King’s Highway” here and in the other Kings Highway related posts, there is no correlation with the dash-cam enthusiasts, such that a whole You-Tube channel of videos entitled “What’s Really Wrong with the King’s Highway” couldn’t be an achievable outcome.

Why can’t people towing caravans/boats etc pull over and let the traffic past when it’s building up behind them?

Does anyone know of some data on causes of fatalities on the Kings? RTA doesn’t have much.

Just from observation, most of the accidents I seem to hear of are vehicles “drifting across lanes/off the road”. I’m sure majority of these would be fatigue related, perhaps inattentiveness also.

So, how does one stop fatigued drivers? It is very difficult, even with rumble strips, etc. It is left up to driver planning.

I think Canberran’s attitude to driving needs to improve, esp. long distance/country roads. NSW shouldn’t be expected to wipe our bottoms and wrap us in cotton wool.

Ah, but not all acts of stupidity are illegal. I want people booked for stupidity. The stupid illegal things can then get a double dose of penalty units.
The fact that people do stupid things in cars will never change though. It’s just general stupidity acting within opportunistic boundaries. Resultant causes can be a lot more public when stupidy is mixed with vehicles.
Since the widespread availability of the Internet, the effects of stupidity can have a geometrically multiplied effect.
A moment of bad judgement in a car can end your life.
A moment of bad judgement mixed with a smartphone can make you live forever.

harvyk1 said :

Disinformation said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

booking people for acts of stupidity.

If ONLY acts of stupidity were illegal.
The police departments would be the single biggest employers on the planet and they’d all be working overtime.

I’m pretty sure doing 40km/h over the limit whilst overtaking around a blind corner and over double solid lines is illegal… As of all the actions I see people doing, this is the most likely to end badly not only for the car doing the illegal thing, but for some poor innocent sod who is sitting in a car going the other way.

Exactly. Crossing unbroken lines, speeding, etc are all offences for which a motorist can be booked.

Disinformation said :

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

booking people for acts of stupidity.

If ONLY acts of stupidity were illegal.
The police departments would be the single biggest employers on the planet and they’d all be working overtime.

I’m pretty sure doing 40km/h over the limit whilst overtaking around a blind corner and over double solid lines is illegal… As of all the actions I see people doing, this is the most likely to end badly not only for the car doing the illegal thing, but for some poor innocent sod who is sitting in a car going the other way.

The issue is will you ever stop idiots from being idiots? probably not. Will idiots kill innocent people on the road? Yes.
So either they need to fix the road, by duplicating, putting up barriers, adding more overtaking lanes or something. Compare the Kings and Barton highways to the Federal and Hume highways. Plenty of idiots on all those highways. I saw plenty on the Hume over the weekend, but well they zoomed passed me gambling on a radar gun down the road. Its far more dangerous to encounter idiots on bad roads than good roads.

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

booking people for acts of stupidity.

If ONLY acts of stupidity were illegal.
The police departments would be the single biggest employers on the planet and they’d all be working overtime.

socialnode1 said :

” …. The worst though had to be the black ute near the bottom of Clyde Mountain approx 2.20pm … 1st major tight right hand bend , double white lines, everyone else is being patient and this moron pulls out a couple of cars behind, overtakes right on that bend to get a few cars in front!

Don’t worry, he got pulled over by an undercover car just after the Clyde :).

Having driven this road a lot when younger (and less often nowadays), I reckon the biggest issue is driving to conditions. People seem to forget that ‘conditions’ includes the level of traffic.

Overtaking is fine when you have plenty of space, good visibility and broken centre markings, but other than that it really is easiest just to follow the traffic.

Occasionally slower traffic pulls over to let others pass, and this is nice of them, but you still see the odd caravan or truck who won’t move over. Of course, on almost every occasion I drive to or from the coast it’s because I’m having time away from work, so waiting a bit doesn’t really matter.

What I would love to see is more visible police presence on the road, booking people for acts of stupidity.

GardeningGirl said :

I don’t really know anything about cruise control, don’t have it, don’t use it, but since it has been mentioned I just saw this article in the Canberra Times.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/crash-survivor-warns-drivers-20120312-1uwqy.html

There cruise control is not t fault, the person falling asleep behind the wheel is…

The kings highway has large sections whcih cruise control is very useful, and cruise control automatically disengages when braking or the clutch is used. I also believe cruise control disengages if the car slows down too much from the target speed.

I use cruise control along any stretch which is relatively straight and the corners are pretty mild. It’s basically a license saver as I set it to 100km/h and I don’t then have to monitor the speedo quote so heavily knowing I probaby won’t go over.

Oh for goodness’ sake!

A. The King’s Highway is only dangerous when busy.
B. The King’s Highway is busy both ends of a long weekend.
A+B=Don’t use the King’s Highway at the beginning or end of a long weekend.

Problem solved. Next!

GardeningGirl said :

I don’t really know anything about cruise control, don’t have it, don’t use it, but since it has been mentioned I just saw this article in the Canberra Times.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/crash-survivor-warns-drivers-20120312-1uwqy.html

Bahahahahahaha, worst piece of journalism ever. A bad tradesman neve blamed his tools. The woman that hit her husband fell asleep & was witnessed wandering all over the road prior to the accident, the cruise control had nothing to do with it.

GG, go back & read the article again. The facts are in there & the investigators would not have a clue if the cruise control was actually working (it may have been switched on but they cant tell if it was operating) at the time of the accident unless the woman blamed it to cover up for the fact she was driving while she was tired.

God said :

It obviously needs a lot more policing.

We even have somone (jethro) complaining about people keeping to the speed limit.

These people deserve no licence.

Methinks Jethro’s sarcasm has been lost on you.

The road itself is benign. The two-person fatality at Braidwood, as I understand it from police reports, involved a driver traveling at speeds of 140 kph and passing on double lines. Probably someone sneering at the inadequate driving capabilities of the sheeple.

As others have said it just comes down to common courtesy on all sides.

God said :

It obviously needs a lot more policing.

We even have somone (jethro) complaining about people keeping to the speed limit.

These people deserve no licence.

um… read the previous thread…. my comment was in response to milkman calling me a selfish dickhead for driving the speed limit.

Obviously my sarcasm voice needs some fine-tuning.

Yellowsnow – What exactly have I admitted to and why are you getting police involved???? Stop hiding behind your computer and reveal your true identity if you are going to start making unfounded accusations – which are exactly what??? I have admitted nothing in my post nothing in my post except my opinion and feelings about the issue. All I have revealed of my actions was where and when I was yesterday, which if it is a crime to be somewhere at a certain time I’d like to know so I can avoid being there next time.
Get a life and stop trying to make yourself feel righteous with a nonsensical and false accusation which you fail to detail. Maybe I should call the moderators onto you for your bullying ways. Show some respect.

I don’t really know anything about cruise control, don’t have it, don’t use it, but since it has been mentioned I just saw this article in the Canberra Times.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/crash-survivor-warns-drivers-20120312-1uwqy.html

Sandman said :

eily said :

Looks like they’ve found the ideal road to put point-to-point cameras on.

Point to point camera’s won’t work because those people aren’t actually getting anywhere any faster. Their average speed is still pretty much the same as everyone else.
Ideal solution would be a Concrete barrier right down the middle of the entire highway, stopping head-ons occurring and making any overtaking impossible without an overtaking lane. Won’t stop poeple taking out Gum tree’s on their side of the road but should stop them taking out an entire family travelling in the opposite direction.

Agreed – as your suggestion or possibly cable barriers if cost is that much of an issue.

It’s all very well for people to come on here and say ‘well natural selection! no problem with the road, just the drivers!’ but it’s cold comfort if you’re unfortunate enough to be coming the other way when some pinhead decides he just can’t take it anymore and pulls out to overtake on a corner.

wildturkeycanoe said :

It’s easy for all of you to say “be patient, what’s 3 or 5 minutes going to hurt”, but humans by nature do not think that way when they are heading to the coast to enjoy what little time off they have.

Constantly adjusting the cruise control…

That last bit in particular says it all really. Too bone lazy to use the pedals. Just give em a slush box and a button thingy and see them roar, they don’t need them skills to drive with this automation these days.

Cruise control is designed for auto-bahns, huge straight, divided roads with a constant speed and very low traffic density. I’ll use it on roads like the Federal and Hume Highways.

But for a road like the Kings Hwy, there are few stretches where it would even be pleasant or useful to use, and not many more where it would be safe to use.

As for human nature and wanting to enjoy “what little time” they have off. Seriously? You’ll have even less time if you wrap yourself around a tree. And who really has so little time? I mean the trip from Canberra to the coast going at a safe place takes less time than it takes the typical Sydneysider to get out of the city much less get to where they’re going. Surely in the grand scheme of the 4weeks leave public servants get a few extra minutes doesn’t matter. That’s just stupid.

Felix the Cat said :

It must be the road right, couldn’t possibly be bad drivers? It’s just the worlds biggest fluke that thousands of people travel this road every week and somehow amazingly manage not to crash.

One thing the shockhorror news stories forget to mention is all the commuters who drive on the Killer Road every fricking day, to and from work. A lot of ex-Canberrans live in and around Braidwood, and make that trek every day. And somehow they manage to survive.

ThatUniStudent said :

I do like the idea of a divided road though.

What we really need is a high speed rail link down to the coast. Better still – monorail! Or even teleportation via the NBN

wow, given the antisocial activities he’s admitted to, if I were the police I’d be trying to identify Wildturkeycanoe’s real name, and keeping a close eye on him in the future.

From my experience, people of regularly have furthest to commute are the worst/most impatient drivers. So, in Canberra, people commuting out from Murrumbateman or Bungendore or further afield are the most hot headed, followed by Gungahlin and Tuggeranong and West Belco folk. People who can drive to work in 15mins or less are generally pretty chilled out, or would if they didn’t have to share the streets with impatient hoons clogging the roads.

But as a general rule – take the nicest, most relaxed person, put them behind the wheel of a car and they can become a completely different person, taking more risks and displaying more aggression than they would ever in person. Psychologists have done studies on this. Apparently the anonymity of being encased in a car is to blame, and inability to empathise with fellow human beings similarly coccooned inside 1.5 tonnes of metal. There probably is a fancy psych term for this

ThatUniStudent said :

I have my speedo calibrated fairly reguarly,

How and where do you regularly get that done?

eily said :

Looks like they’ve found the ideal road to put point-to-point cameras on.

I agree. Especially the sections between the top of gthe Clyde and the edge of Braidwood, then anouther between Braidwood and Bungendore.

Despite the rantings of others, most cars that pass me on that highway are doing over the speedlimit. I have my speedo calibrated fairly reguarly, and have a GPS speedo (not a crappy sat nav) as well as a radar speedo. I sit on the speed limit and get overtaken reguarly by cars doing 10 to 42 km above the limit, although more doing around 110 than 142. Lots of people seem to think that because you can do 110 on the big, wide, well built Hume Highway, that you can also do 110 on the Kings Highway despite sections being sign posted to 100. Also, those long stretches of 90 km/h don’t seem to stop people from doing 100 on them either.
I do like the idea of a divided road though.

It obviously needs a lot more policing.

We even have somone (jethro) complaining about people keeping to the speed limit.

These people deserve no licence.

eily said :

Looks like they’ve found the ideal road to put point-to-point cameras on.

Point to point camera’s won’t work because those people aren’t actually getting anywhere any faster. Their average speed is still pretty much the same as everyone else.
Ideal solution would be a Concrete barrier right down the middle of the entire highway, stopping head-ons occurring and making any overtaking impossible without an overtaking lane. Won’t stop poeple taking out Gum tree’s on their side of the road but should stop them taking out an entire family travelling in the opposite direction.

King’s Highway or Barton Highway, doesn’t make any difference. When you have a Learner doing 65km/h for a 25 km stretch of 100 zone with only one overtaking lane, 30-40 cars and trucks backing up behind them, someone is going to lose it and try to get past in a less than safe fashion. Patience can only last for so long before it wears thin and then you have consequences. Ideally, the instructor of the learner would have re-thought having them drive at the busiest period of the day or used a road with less traffic. One can be booked for driving too slow, there is a reason for that. [This happened this afternoon coming back into Canberra from Murrumbateman, 6:00pm]
As per previous posts about the King’s Hwy, I agree that slower vehicles should be aware if they are creating a backlog and take a break in a rest area to let them all get past and back to a normal driving speed. With the advent of speed cameras, the backlog doesn’t clear like back in the old days where everyone planted it and did 120-140km/h in the 1km of overtaking lane available. Now you might get 2 or 3 cars doing 100 that get past the slow vehicle doing 70-80, whilst the other 20 cars behind get caught right back behind them, waiting for the next passing opportunity.Safety by capping speeding in my opinion has created the very problem we are faced with.
It’s easy for all of you to say “be patient, what’s 3 or 5 minutes going to hurt”, but humans by nature do not think that way when they are heading to the coast to enjoy what little time off they have. Constantly adjusting the cruise control or hitting the brakes because a slow driver with little confidence varies their speed from 70 to 100km/h not only annoys the person behind but compounds this in a chain reaction back another ten cars where they end up slowing down even more, sometimes to 50km/h as every reaction is exaggerated through the line up.
Those who overtake on double lines are idiots, I won’t defend them in any way, but I can understand why they end up doing it.

“Kings Highway. Have they learned nothing? “

NO!!

Did the trip this afternoon to Canberra, seen so many people taking risks its ridiculous! …. The worst though had to be the black ute near the bottom of Clyde Mountain approx 2.20pm … 1st major tight right hand bend , double white lines, everyone else is being patient and this moron pulls out a couple of cars behind, overtakes right on that bend to get a few cars in front!

Seriously I can not believe the stupidity of some people I wish I had not been so shocked to take a photo or get his license (I was a passenger).

Short answer – nope, they have learnt nothing…
Long answer – why should I learn something, I am an above average driver, just like everyone else…

People vastly overestimate their driving abilities, and thanks to things like ABS \ Traction Control \ ESP \ Stability Control etc, the car does actually prevent them from crashing, to a point… It also gives the driver a very false sense of security an “I’ll be fine, I stopped the car in time” where in reality it was things like ABS which actually stopped the car in time.

The dangerous thing about all these safety systems is when they fail, the car is doing a much higher speed than before, coupled with a driver who has never experienced what it feels like to have a car slip out from under them (because it’s dangerous to teach people how to actually recover from such things, it make them want to practise those techniques is the standard argument) and it’s a perfect recipe for disaster.

Looks like they’ve found the ideal road to put point-to-point cameras on.

What I cant understand is that all these people are rushing to get to Batemans Bay, I mean if it was somewhere really good I could understand it, but its just the coast and it will only be full of the idiots that just blasted past you at 120km/h…….
Besides it will still be there in 2-3 hours time or next week for that matter….

You’ve got it all wrong Tecko12.

It’s not the people doing the dangerous overtakes who are to blame, but the people driving at the speed limit who are causing them to get frustrated and take unnecessary risks.

If only those people holding everyone else up by driving the speed limit could just be a bit more courteous.

I don’t know why, but there are many drivers who can’t stand the idea of another car being in front of them. Apparently, even if that second car is doing the speed limit or faster, they *must* be overtaken.

I usually get it from people who start off behind me then try to overtake well after a merge has begun, lest they be one car behind. The risk to themselves, me and others is apparently worth the experience of driving in front of somebody.

It must be the road right, couldn’t possibly be bad drivers? It’s just the worlds biggest fluke that thousands of people travel this road every week and somehow amazingly manage not to crash.

And Tecko12 that is why, when excessive speed is involved, there are those who have no sorrow when people wipe themselves out on stationary objects.

Obviously the OP doesn’t know what we all know, that death only happens to other people. Accidents, tragedies, loss of life and lifelong debilitating injuries never happen to us. Geez.*

*sarcasm

The one that always astounds me the most is the car overtaking one or more cars right behind another car, instead of going one by one. So they are counting on the first car to leave them enough space to move back into the left lane. That is a massive risk to take.

Obviously the OP doesn’t know what we all know, that death only happens to other people. Accidents, tragedies, loss of life and lifelong debilitating injuries never happen to us. Geez.

“Why cant people wait and be patient. Everyone else has to. And what really got to me is that it was a mother driving her family of 3 kids. Wouldent people learn.

Although the road is in poor condition now, it is still fine to drive if you drive to the condition but people risking their own lives and their familys to jump a few car spaces ahead, i just do not understand.”

Alright. I’ll let you in on two little things I learned when I was about 19.

1. Deep down, underneath a facade of civility and adhering to social protocol, most people are primitive scum that will screw anyone else over when it suits them.
2. Most people are totally fucking retarded.

It is certainly not the case for all people, and there are some that are bigger/more visible fuckwits/assholes, but ever since I started looking at the world through this lens, everything started making sense. It also provides a cogent explanation to your little musing on the Kings Highway.