New housing tract for West Belconnen. 4,500 homes

Looking at the map you could reasonably assume that about half of the traffic coming out of the new suburb will travel down Southern Cross and half along Drake Brockman. At the moment you can wait, at times for up to 10 cars to go past before you can enter Drake B from Higgins. Can’t wait for that wait to get better. I know I shouldn’t be cynical but does anyone know the location of a traffic “plan” for this. You know, the one with the extended use of single lane infrastructure that also shows the expanded woolies with less parking?

HiddenDragon said :

thebrownstreak69 said :

HiddenDragon said :

watto23 said :

I get more annoyed about these cross border ideas. Queanbeyan itself keeps growing because of jobs in the ACT and then those people don’t pay a cent in ACT government revenue. so here is another development, that will be out of the ACT governments control if it does get built cross border, that will need to use the roads etc in the territory. Then if the council on that side of the border can see more $$$$ they’ll build more estates.

And that’s why we need to shift the taxation burden from conveyancing duties to rates, so that the ACT will continue to have the revenue to subsidise the under-compensated cost of the services we provide to people who live across the border.

Getting ACT ratepayers to pay more rates will help compensate for services consumed by residents of NSW? Yeah, sounds great…

Yes, that little racket has been a winner for quite a few years now for the ACT’s NSW neighbours, and as the cost of living on the ACT side of the border goes through the roof, more and more are likely to move to the other side (looking forward now to the selective examples of why NSW is, in fact, soooo much more costly than the ACT).

Electricity costs more, and rates are a little more, but there’d be bugger all in it really, I reckon. Houses are probably a bit cheaper.

thebrownstreak69 said :

HiddenDragon said :

watto23 said :

I get more annoyed about these cross border ideas. Queanbeyan itself keeps growing because of jobs in the ACT and then those people don’t pay a cent in ACT government revenue. so here is another development, that will be out of the ACT governments control if it does get built cross border, that will need to use the roads etc in the territory. Then if the council on that side of the border can see more $$$$ they’ll build more estates.

And that’s why we need to shift the taxation burden from conveyancing duties to rates, so that the ACT will continue to have the revenue to subsidise the under-compensated cost of the services we provide to people who live across the border.

Getting ACT ratepayers to pay more rates will help compensate for services consumed by residents of NSW? Yeah, sounds great…

Yes, that little racket has been a winner for quite a few years now for the ACT’s NSW neighbours, and as the cost of living on the ACT side of the border goes through the roof, more and more are likely to move to the other side (looking forward now to the selective examples of why NSW is, in fact, soooo much more costly than the ACT).

HiddenDragon said :

watto23 said :

I get more annoyed about these cross border ideas. Queanbeyan itself keeps growing because of jobs in the ACT and then those people don’t pay a cent in ACT government revenue. so here is another development, that will be out of the ACT governments control if it does get built cross border, that will need to use the roads etc in the territory. Then if the council on that side of the border can see more $$$$ they’ll build more estates.

And that’s why we need to shift the taxation burden from conveyancing duties to rates, so that the ACT will continue to have the revenue to subsidise the under-compensated cost of the services we provide to people who live across the border.

Getting ACT ratepayers to pay more rates will help compensate for services consumed by residents of NSW? Yeah, sounds great…

watto23 said :

I get more annoyed about these cross border ideas. Queanbeyan itself keeps growing because of jobs in the ACT and then those people don’t pay a cent in ACT government revenue. so here is another development, that will be out of the ACT governments control if it does get built cross border, that will need to use the roads etc in the territory. Then if the council on that side of the border can see more $$$$ they’ll build more estates.

And that’s why we need to shift the taxation burden from conveyancing duties to rates, so that the ACT will continue to have the revenue to subsidise the under-compensated cost of the services we provide to people who live across the border.

Transformation, green, sustainable, world class …may one day open the falls, form a heritage trust and 20% affordable etc blah blah crap

Just say it’s a land release and move on.

I get more annoyed about these cross border ideas. Queanbeyan itself keeps growing because of jobs in the ACT and then those people don’t pay a cent in ACT government revenue. so here is another development, that will be out of the ACT governments control if it does get built cross border, that will need to use the roads etc in the territory. Then if the council on that side of the border can see more $$$$ they’ll build more estates.

Mike Bessenger said :

Great, who’s going to want to live next to a waste tip

Plenty of people in Harrison do apparently

beardedclam said :

Can’t be as bad as Village Building Company. Just glad a different developer is having a go at affordable housing. West Macgregor is terrible, same with their new Ngunnawal blocks too, maximise number of blocks, call it affordable, low construction costs, sell it at the highest affordable threshold. No thought put into the design, just get in, get out and take the cash.

If people didn’t buy them then they wouldn’t build them.

dtc said :

HiddenDragon said :

Rather than beating up on people who are understandably worried about high-rise towering over them (I am not such a person, by the way), perhaps we could look at some of the large, and well-placed tracts of land closer-in which are apparently untouchable because the enviro/bushland NIMBYs like the idea of having such areas preserved – regardless of the broader costs of that. It may be that there are some such areas which could be opened up without destroying precious, unique etc. etc. heritage values, and without making life a misery for people living nearby.

If you go here

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kenszvq

you can see an aerial map of canberra which allows you to identify the vacant land. The parts that stand out are those behind the airport (behind Hackett and through to the border) and Fyshwick/Symonston; and further development behind the new Molonglo and behind Woden.

I’m not au fait enough with these areas to know why they are not preferred over far West West Belco – I guess Belco is more of a greenfields area, just farmland, so no current use or environmental issues (or airport / defence issues) and there are roads there already. But I wouldnt mind knowing what areas have been considered and why other areas have been rejected.

Don’t forget there is a massive tract of land from Majura Road out to HQJOC on the Kings Highway that is bigger than the entire Gungahlin/Mitchell area.

Then you have various tracts of land that are not National Park heading south down the Federal Highway that are also quite large.

But no, lets continue to build massive houses on small blocks around Belcrompton and Gunghetto.

There is already an oversupply of apartments in Canberra – with more set to come onto the market with the next monstrosity high-rise planned for Belconnen and Northbourne, and now this .. seriously, where are all these people? And who would want to live in a sweaty box on top of their neighbour in such a lovely natural environment when they can do so already in Gungahlin ..

Honestly, having been in Canberra about 5-6 years now I can honestly say the planning and development agenda is total balls, (and not the nice kind), nope just fat, sweaty, hairy balls.

thebrownstreak69 said :

It will be like every other new Canberra surburb – expensive, small blocks with poorly built homes (thankyou private certifiers) with narrow roads and poor arterial connections.

And multiple kilometres away from shops and public transport.

The stated goal of “20% affordable homes” made me laugh.

dtc said :

HiddenDragon said :

Rather than beating up on people who are understandably worried about high-rise towering over them (I am not such a person, by the way), perhaps we could look at some of the large, and well-placed tracts of land closer-in which are apparently untouchable because the enviro/bushland NIMBYs like the idea of having such areas preserved – regardless of the broader costs of that. It may be that there are some such areas which could be opened up without destroying precious, unique etc. etc. heritage values, and without making life a misery for people living nearby.

If you go here

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kenszvq

you can see an aerial map of canberra which allows you to identify the vacant land. The parts that stand out are those behind the airport (behind Hackett and through to the border) and Fyshwick/Symonston; and further development behind the new Molonglo and behind Woden.

I’m not au fait enough with these areas to know why they are not preferred over far West West Belco – I guess Belco is more of a greenfields area, just farmland, so no current use or environmental issues (or airport / defence issues) and there are roads there already. But I wouldnt mind knowing what areas have been considered and why other areas have been rejected.

I reckon Fyshwick is due for a serious re-think, with many of the older commercial buildings getting towards the end of their functional lives, and the likelihood of more vacancies with a slowing economy, and some smaller niche retailers (and I don’t just mean purveyors of “adult” products) being pushed out of business by online competitors. It is very well situated, and has some great views too. (I don’t own real estate in Fyshwick, so I am not dreaming of a lucrative re-zoning, I just think there are some wasted opportunities there).

I discovered this article after making my earlier comment – there are some interesting comparisons between the UK experience, and what is happening here:

http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2013/06/uk-doubles-down-on-housing-disaster

It will be like every other new Canberra surburb – expensive, small blocks with poorly built homes (thankyou private certifiers) with narrow roads and poor arterial connections.

dungfungus said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

There’s one thing wrong with this whole picture [Well, maybe a couple of things as pointed out]. The Riverview group has all these wonderful pictures of the Murrumbidgee, supposedly to attract poople to the area. Yet whilst there isn’t any access to the river from the waterworks and the old swimming hole down N.S.W end is private property, can this be called false advertising? If they open it up for public access, why are they shutting down the other viable alternatives such as Kambah Pool?

That’s like Telstra delivering flyers stating “The NBN is at Your Doorstep”. I just checked again and it wasn’t there and phone calls aren’t being returned either.

Don’t worry, Tony will be Prime Minister soon and everything will be fine. That horrible woman won’t ruin Australia for you any more.

HiddenDragon said :

Rather than beating up on people who are understandably worried about high-rise towering over them (I am not such a person, by the way), perhaps we could look at some of the large, and well-placed tracts of land closer-in which are apparently untouchable because the enviro/bushland NIMBYs like the idea of having such areas preserved – regardless of the broader costs of that. It may be that there are some such areas which could be opened up without destroying precious, unique etc. etc. heritage values, and without making life a misery for people living nearby.

If you go here

http://preview.tinyurl.com/kenszvq

you can see an aerial map of canberra which allows you to identify the vacant land. The parts that stand out are those behind the airport (behind Hackett and through to the border) and Fyshwick/Symonston; and further development behind the new Molonglo and behind Woden.

I’m not au fait enough with these areas to know why they are not preferred over far West West Belco – I guess Belco is more of a greenfields area, just farmland, so no current use or environmental issues (or airport / defence issues) and there are roads there already. But I wouldnt mind knowing what areas have been considered and why other areas have been rejected.

Can’t be as bad as Village Building Company. Just glad a different developer is having a go at affordable housing. West Macgregor is terrible, same with their new Ngunnawal blocks too, maximise number of blocks, call it affordable, low construction costs, sell it at the highest affordable threshold. No thought put into the design, just get in, get out and take the cash.

Surely if/when this goes ahead there will need to be a re-think of the speed cushions along Drake Brockman Drive?

wildturkeycanoe said :

There’s one thing wrong with this whole picture [Well, maybe a couple of things as pointed out]. The Riverview group has all these wonderful pictures of the Murrumbidgee, supposedly to attract poople to the area. Yet whilst there isn’t any access to the river from the waterworks and the old swimming hole down N.S.W end is private property, can this be called false advertising? If they open it up for public access, why are they shutting down the other viable alternatives such as Kambah Pool?

That’s like Telstra delivering flyers stating “The NBN is at Your Doorstep”. I just checked again and it wasn’t there and phone calls aren’t being returned either.

Jerry Atric said :

I hope that the planning is also sensitive enough to allow the houses to keep the rural views which are some of the best in Canberra.

LMFAO

Gerry-Built said :

dpm said :

Where’s the shitworks on that map? Is that it down the very bottom (no pun intended…)?

The former “shitworks” are the two small, green squares just below the top-most NSW/ACT border label, directly east of Parkwood Eggs… you can get to them via the fire trail between Dunlop and Parkwood… though they are fenced off…

Think they may have been asking about the ‘new’/current shitworks, which is a bit hard to see on the map provided by the developer. But anyway it is in the area on the bottom left of the developers map. Just look below the bit where the the green shading gets thin.

Jurls said :

Lets hope they are building a school, being as the existing ones are bursting at the seams, being as several of them were recently closed and amalgamated.

MCSS has the smallest enrollment it has had in a decade, and KSS will take nowhere near the capacity we were told in public meetings prior to the closure…

gooterz said :

Why do we continue the suburban sprawl. The government uses centralising as an excuse not to develop further in the south and then goes and builds further northwest.

Why not finish Molonglo valley, Woden green, Tuggeranong by the lake, Gungahlin +light rail, parkes way overbuild, or any number of other projects.

Surely there is somewhere close that we won’t have to build a new everything for, and that already has a decent bus service. Or perhaps somewhere along the new toot toot route?

+ 1 – it seems to be one extreme or the other – sterile, high rise dog boxes in our enchanting, cosmopolitan town centres or low-rise cookie cutter dog boxes on the outer urban fringes – right in the front line of the next big fire(s), and adding to the costly sprawl.

Rather than beating up on people who are understandably worried about high-rise towering over them (I am not such a person, by the way), perhaps we could look at some of the large, and well-placed tracts of land closer-in which are apparently untouchable because the enviro/bushland NIMBYs like the idea of having such areas preserved – regardless of the broader costs of that. It may be that there are some such areas which could be opened up without destroying precious, unique etc. etc. heritage values, and without making life a misery for people living nearby.

*built* Oooops!

CicsoKid said :

The website eventually leads here…

http://www.talkwestbelconnen.com.au/about-west-belconnen/location/

There is your location.

After reading the marketing blurb at the link above I think someone needs to have a chat to these people about bending the truth…newly build Kippax Library? Ummm…8 years ago. Macgregor is not spelt MacGregor and would you call the mechanics and Kings Swim at Macgregor a ‘shopping/commercial’ centre that provides ‘every day needs’? Kippax yes, Macgregor no. I guess at least they mention the Belconnen Land fill! :/

dpm said :

Where’s the shitworks on that map? Is that it down the very bottom (no pun intended…)?

The former “shitworks” are the two small, green squares just below the top-most NSW/ACT border label, directly east of Parkwood Eggs… you can get to them via the fire trail between Dunlop and Parkwood… though they are fenced off…

Given my feelings about urban sprawl and how badly most new developments are done I am uncharacteristically optimistic about this outfit. Assuming they put the houses in sensible spots away from the poo farm odours it could be pretty noice, at least as far as these things go.

Firstly, they’ve got a hell of a lot of land, spread across both ACT and NSW. It does go right down to the river, and it’ll be great to have that bit of the river opened up. (Yeah, I know: even better if Ginninderra Falls gets turned into a national park, but that might not happen for a bit.) Also, I’ve had cause to acquaint myself with their initial plans. Assuming they don’t monumentally stuff it up or have some radical shift away from the current vision, it’ll be pretty cool. Or at least stand a fighting chance of being more betterer than the clusterfarque that constitutes so many of Canberra’s newer suburbs.

For my money the transport issue is the really big one. Although it’s only another 1km from the existing end of the world/Belco, there will be significant pressure on the roads. That problem is one for our esteemed council, and at least they’ll have the time to duplicate William Hovell and get some ACTION out there on day one, assuming they get their shit together.

Lets hope they are building a school, being as the existing ones are bursting at the seams, being as several of them were recently closed and amalgamated.

The development should be called Grimlock, after one of the Transformers, given it’s apparently all about transformation. Also that title has a nice reference to possible problems getting in and out of the area by car.

Meanwhile, people object to any urban infill in areas with actual amenities. Sigh.

There’s one thing wrong with this whole picture [Well, maybe a couple of things as pointed out]. The Riverview group has all these wonderful pictures of the Murrumbidgee, supposedly to attract poople to the area. Yet whilst there isn’t any access to the river from the waterworks and the old swimming hole down N.S.W end is private property, can this be called false advertising? If they open it up for public access, why are they shutting down the other viable alternatives such as Kambah Pool?

JC said :

Pork Hunt said :

Is it a new suburb? What name if so?

I would imagine it is not that far down the track yet.

How far is it from the gurgler? How about Rudd-Gillard?
That would cover both the forth coming election result and the Prime Ministerial aspect of naming suburbs…

CicsoKid said :

The website eventually leads here…

http://www.talkwestbelconnen.com.au/about-west-belconnen/location/

There is your location.

Where’s the shitworks on that map? Is that it down the very bottom (no pun intended…)?

CicsoKid said :

The website eventually leads here…

http://www.talkwestbelconnen.com.au/about-west-belconnen/location/

There is your location.

Thanks, well found!

So I wasn’t quite right, it’s on the other side of where I was thinking. It’ll wrap around the electricity substation, wrap around the old Belconnen Tip, and Strathnairn Gallery is going to be surrounded by suburbs. I’m not sure they’d be using words like ‘Transformation’, more like ‘F***ing disaster’!

The NSW section on that map is basically next door neighbours to the worst of the Parkwood industrial area, Parkwood Eggs, and turns Ginninderry Homestead from a bit of a remote location to next door to a suburb.

I was wrong on something else too. The blocks looking out over the river corridor definitely won’t be affordable housing.

Pork Hunt said :

Is it a new suburb? What name if so?

I would imagine it is not that far down the track yet.

CicsoKid said :

The website eventually leads here…

http://www.talkwestbelconnen.com.au/about-west-belconnen/location/

There is your location.

Oh no where near Macgregor, all around the back of HOLT right near the shit works and behind the old dump. Hmm lovely place for housing!

Why do we continue the suburban sprawl. The government uses centralising as an excuse not to develop further in the south and then goes and builds further northwest.

Why not finish Molonglo valley, Woden green, Tuggeranong by the lake, Gungahlin +light rail, parkes way overbuild, or any number of other projects.

Surely there is somewhere close that we won’t have to build a new everything for, and that already has a decent bus service. Or perhaps somewhere along the new toot toot route?

This has everything to do with NSW developments in Googong (and highly likely Tralee) being considerably more affordable than the current overpriced, over taxed offerings in Weston Creek and Gungahlin.

Given that economy is the key, it will be interesting to see what ludicrous sighting/solar orientation/overshadowing impediments will be imposed.

I am all in favour of selling affordable housing blocks onto the market. But at every turn, the ACT Gov is seen to be extracting the maximum dollar for the square metre, and then compelling very expensive design rules on the builders plans.

Pork Hunt said :

Is it a new suburb? What name if so?

Well it is close to the chicken farm so how about Sanders 😉

So looks like it’s both sides of Stockdill Drive behind the golf course all the way through to Southern Cross Drive to the power station and old tip area/current industrial area.

Pork Hunt said :

Is it a new suburb? What name if so?

They should call it ‘Bourbon Estates’

Is it a new suburb? What name if so?

The website eventually leads here…

http://www.talkwestbelconnen.com.au/about-west-belconnen/location/

There is your location.

I’d love to know where they’re going to put these houses. If it’s the area next to the existing West Macgregor development, then residents can look forward to views of the electricity substation, the sounds of the dog boarding kennel, Canberra Sand and Gravel (plus various other landscaping places), and on a good day the aroma of the Parkwood Eggs factory.

It’s sure to be affordable, because nobody who could possibly afford to live anywhere else would choose to live that close to what’s basically an industrial estate.

As a Belco (Macgregor) boy from way back I am trying to figure out where this is. Next to Holt is the golf course, the main power feed for Canberra and the old tip site.

Next to Macgregor (west Macgregor doesn’t exist as a suburb) there is a small amount of land that has the old shit works, then the old tip (and current asbestos tip), Parkwood Eggs and the West Belconnen industrial estate.

So both places not really suitable I would have thought.

Then there is Dunlop with vacant land heading towards the boarder and the Jaramlee farm in NSW and Gininderra Drive heading there but ending. If anywhere this is about the only suitable land out that way.

The Canberra Crimes has a map but only small and no map on the links above.

Col1234 said :

I hope they upgrade the roads first so they dont have another Cotter Road mess.

One of the funniest posts I’ve seen on this site. Funny because Cotter Road is being upgraded NOW before all the extra people move into Molonglo. So not exactly sure what you want done differently.

Great, who’s going to want to live next to a waste tip, asbestos tip, waste lands, Belconnens largest substation and get a nice wiff of shit everyday from the poo factory.
At least they will all be kept warm with CSG’s monthly fires.

Very poor access to this area, what the fuck are they thinking….oh money, that’s right

Wow, shame they didn’t know about this when they took the cheapest option possible ‘fixing’ those intersections on Southern Cross Dr.

But I guess they can transform them too after a few people get killed….

Or, they could remove all those speed cushions on Spofforth St and route the additional traffic that way.

I hope they upgrade the roads first so they dont have another Cotter Road mess.

Great. More traffic along Southern Cross Drive!

I hope that the planning is also sensitive enough to allow the houses to keep the rural views which are some of the best in Canberra.