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Residential rates up only 4.5pc but levies on rise

By Charlotte Harper 7 June 2016 62

Homes

ACT home owners will be relieved to learn that residential rates will rise by 4.5 per cent rather than 8.75 per cent as flagged in the last Budget, however unit owners are set to contend with larger increases and all rate payers will face some unexpected hits to their hip pockets in the form of new and increased levies.

All property owners will pay the new annual $30 Safer Families Levy as well as increases to the Fire and Emergency Services Levy and Victims Services Levy of around $10 apiece as well as to the Ambulance Levy of between $5 (individuals) and $10 (families).

The Victims Services Levy will rise by a further $10 in 2017-18.

General rates will rise by an average of 4.5 per cent for residential properties in 2016-17, and an average of 7 per cent for commercial properties. Residential rates are expected to rise by a further 7 per cent each year for the next five years.

For units only, a change in the rates methodology will also add around $150 on average in 2017-18 and $115 on average in 2018-19. The Government will change the general rates calculation for multi-unit dwellings to base it on the total average unimproved value of the land rather than the individual average unimproved value of the unit. This is designed to lead to greater equity in general rates paid between houses and units.

Commercial rates are expected to rise on average by 6 per cent each year.

The Safer Families Levy and increases to existing levies will billed via Canberra property owners’ rates bills.


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Residential rates up only 4.5pc but levies on rise
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JC 1:59 pm 14 Jun 16

Ps Belconnen is still waiting for William hovell drive to be duplicated.

And school courses belconnen saw its fair share of them close over time too. Latham, Higgins, Holt, Flynn Charnwood high, Gininderra High for starters. And new schoonls one K-10 on the old ago Gininderra High site. Bit like tuggers isn’t it? And they were closed for the same reason some in Tuggeranong was closed which is changing demographics. You will find the same issue ain’t apply in Gungahlin simply because there is not a one suburb one school policy like the bulk of Canberra and Gungahlin had. Many older suburbs share schools with newer suburbs thus ensuring a ready supply of appropriately aged kids. So guess +1 to Tuggeranong and +2 as tuggers has two colleges Gungahlin just 1.

JC 1:51 pm 14 Jun 16

Garfield said :

JC, you have been given numerous evidence and information on this site about Tuggeranong getting less money per capita for Education, Government programs, Public transport, Infrastructure spending and maintenance etc, but you choose to ignore it or you argue minor details.

Forgetting the evidence for a moment, even Labor party Ministers agree that Tuggeranong has had less money spent on it (compared to other areas) since self Government. Tuggers used to be Labor heartland until the School Closures and the government reneging on multiple budgeted promises.

Your arguments that Tuggeranong got more money spent on it in the 80 and 90s are also false. The plan for Tuggeranong’s development over a 20 year period (unlike Belconnen) was to duplicate roads and build infrastructure as the population grew, not beforehand. However, planned and future budgeted road duplications and public infrastructure for Tuggeranong, got shelved when Local Government started in 1990. That’s why Tuggers is full of single lane main roads with space for duplication, a cheaply built City centre at the edge of the township, a terrible Lake and surrounds and a lack of public institutions and quality public spaces.

Tuggeranong Schools were closed on mass in the 2000s and many Northside schools were kept open purely for political purposes. Now according to NAPLAN results, Tuggeranong schools fill 5 of the bottom 7 primary schools and all 6 Tuggers public high schools sit at the bottom for performances. Tuggeranong never used to have the greatest schools, but they were generally middling in Canberra, now they have plummeted to the bottom due to funding cutbacks and closures.

Tuggeranong residents contribute almost a quarter of Canberra’s Local and Federal Taxes, Rates & Charges, but get much much less of their dollars back in return. You would gain more credibility if you were able to accept this information, not just continue your regular words to bag out Tuggers as people with nothing to complain about compared to your Gungahlin counterparts.

I fail to see any of these so called facts. I see lots of whinging say about roads and overpasses that once challenged do not stack up. Take the comments above both Tuggeranong and Gungahlin are in the same boat. Yeah Tuggeranong doesn’t have roads as good as Belconnen nor by the same token does it have roads as good as the Southside townships of Woden and Weston creek. But you hit the nail on the head self government changed it all. It made it come from where the rest of the country subsidised the territory to the hilt to one where we now have to pay for most of this stuff ourselves. Just like the rest of the country. I challenge you to go to any city I Australia and go to suburbs built at the same time as Tuggeranong and for you to tell me that Tuggeranong is any worse off. It isn’t. You will see single lane roads bit of duplication where needed that then feed into arterial freeways. Just like Tuggeranong and Gungahlin.

And the latter is the crux. It seems Tuggeranong people see this as a north vs them fight when really they mean Gungahlin. But look at the facts and Gungahlin quite rightly gets a disproportionate amount of the infrastructure spend solely because it is the new town. Tuggers contributes 25% so what? Doesn’t mean it should or for that matter shouldn’t have 25% spent on it. The money should be spent where needed and simple FACT is new suburbs need a disproportionate amount of new money spent

And your wrong when Tuggeranong was being built it was being showered with a disproportionate spend too though ya mostly federal money up until 1989 at least.

So really Gungahlin is being treated exactly the same as Tuggeranong when Tuggeranong was being built. The facilities that each has is comparable on a size of population perspective. Everything else is really just fluff around the edges to suit an argument.

And have I mentioned where I live. Yep West Belconnen and I have no mates in Gungahlin either. And west belco people are having the same whinge and I tell them they are wrong too. West belco is no better off nor any worse than elsewhere in Canberra.

bj_ACT 11:32 am 14 Jun 16

JC, you have been given numerous evidence and information on this site about Tuggeranong getting less money per capita for Education, Government programs, Public transport, Infrastructure spending and maintenance etc, but you choose to ignore it or you argue minor details.

Forgetting the evidence for a moment, even Labor party Ministers agree that Tuggeranong has had less money spent on it (compared to other areas) since self Government. Tuggers used to be Labor heartland until the School Closures and the government reneging on multiple budgeted promises.

Your arguments that Tuggeranong got more money spent on it in the 80 and 90s are also false. The plan for Tuggeranong’s development over a 20 year period (unlike Belconnen) was to duplicate roads and build infrastructure as the population grew, not beforehand. However, planned and future budgeted road duplications and public infrastructure for Tuggeranong, got shelved when Local Government started in 1990. That’s why Tuggers is full of single lane main roads with space for duplication, a cheaply built City centre at the edge of the township, a terrible Lake and surrounds and a lack of public institutions and quality public spaces.

Tuggeranong Schools were closed on mass in the 2000s and many Northside schools were kept open purely for political purposes. Now according to NAPLAN results, Tuggeranong schools fill 5 of the bottom 7 primary schools and all 6 Tuggers public high schools sit at the bottom for performances. Tuggeranong never used to have the greatest schools, but they were generally middling in Canberra, now they have plummeted to the bottom due to funding cutbacks and closures.

Tuggeranong residents contribute almost a quarter of Canberra’s Local and Federal Taxes, Rates & Charges, but get much much less of their dollars back in return. You would gain more credibility if you were able to accept this information, not just continue your regular words to bag out Tuggers as people with nothing to complain about compared to your Gungahlin counterparts.

JC 1:43 am 14 Jun 16

Ps out of intrest Glenloch to sulwood drive (first set of lights going south) is 12km and had 3 grade separated interactions and crosses on other road without an intersection.

Glenloch to Sandford Street (first lights heading north) also has 3 grade seperate from intersections and crosses on other road without any intersection. Oh Aranda is really just a fly over that is part of the Belconnen way exit. But if you want to count it and say belco has 4 flyovers vs 3 in Tuggeranong then go ahead.

JC 1:01 am 14 Jun 16

shirty_bear said :

JC said :

Kim Huynh said :

vip.peter said :

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Well, it’s better than Civic bus interchange. Plus in a better position. At least one can take their shopping trolley there with the shopping and there is a place designed to leave trolleys. Civic is too far from most shops and the facilities are worse than Woden. Compared to Civic, Woden was okay before work was commenced on it, so I don’t know why you appear to be complaining about it. So, it hasn’t been upgraded since it was built…that doesn’t mean it needed lots of major work.

And better than Belconnen as well.

Didn’t think Belconnen was too bad. Used to have the bridge across.. (Flyover) as well they had the red bridge up further.
The community bus stations idea, seems ok. Just there aren’t enough busses.

Agree the old belco interchange wasn’t too bad. But now the setup is a bloody mess.

JC 12:59 am 14 Jun 16

rommeldog56 said :

dungfungus said :

vip.peter said :

What Tuggeranong got 15-20m years ago was the budget solution, half finished bridge piers lay where expansions could be made, however they never were. The idea being that once the area grew (and it did) there would be cause to upgrade based on traffic flow. However instead we have Bandaid solutions. We’re told rat running is a huge problem.
North side has a flyover for the Aranda exit which seems to service but a single suburb. Most of the south is a repeat offender for being on the blackspot program.

Its not just gungahlin either several areas in belconnen town centre got hot mix where the those in Tuggeranong got gravel, that was either hot glued down or just asked to sit quietly because it peeled within a week. Western Creek got a mix of quicksand.

Sadly not even proceeding with the road duplications the government has ambitiously started to develop in the land set aside. The area next to Athlon drive is all set as land for future development.

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Wow the pettiness amazes me, well actually it doesn’t.

Firstly Tuggeranong roads being built single lane, what you mean the same as Gungahlin? Hmmm

Aranda exit, ohh whoopty do you do realise the reason it is there is because the local road that used to service it got taken over by Gungahlin drive.

Gravel roads, hmm the roads in Tuggeranong were not built that way they have got it as part of maintenance exactly what has happened in the suburban Gungahlin roads recently. There gets to be a time where they need a complete resurface some suburbs in Tuggeranong may be due thinking more Kanabah area.

Widen interchange had had a least one major upgrade and I think two actually. With a 3rd due.

Still yet to see any evidence Tuggeranong or the Southside is getting shafted. Lots of whinging though.

Quit using straw man arguments. The question stands that why Aranda was an overpass, where the same bit of road down south is traffic lights? There is such little traffic coming from Aranda I would say the cop that is usually hiding on the off-ramp is there more than any legitimate traffic is.

The road surface thing was a town centre where there would be the most amount of wear. The same towncentre locations in Belconnen and elsewhere are all hotmix. The quality wasn’t even good enough to last a week. Aka.. It was terrible no matter what anyone else had. But that level of terrible wouldn’t be seen further north.

The evidence is in the vote. Why is it that the biggest swing to the Libs was in the southside?
50 thousand people can’t all be wrong surely?

Straw man argument? Seriously?

Re the Aranda exit can I point out the obvious. The Tuggeranong parkway is grade seperate from Glenloch until the very first intersection in Tuggeranong. Gungahlin drive/Caswell drive is grade separated from Glenlich until the very first intersection in Gungahlin.

The Tuggeranong parkway splits Woden and Weston creek with grade separated exits. Gungahlin drive splits Belconnen with grade separated intersections. I am yet to see any significant difference. Please help me where I am mistaken?

But Aranda yeah traffic is light but what exactly would you do? Did I mention the previous road was taken over by a freeway? Would you like to see a set of lights just to make Tuggeranong people feel better? Despite it being just be a stupid notion?

Ad for Belconnen town centre where is this lovely hotmix in the town centre? Maybe a few roads here and there that have been substantially modified when the interchange was replaced. But mostly it is chip seal like the rest of town. Besides even if it was all hotmix what exactly would it prove? You do realise roads need different treatments base on use, wear and age?

As for the swing in Tuggeranong all I can say is I see a lot of self intrest with a distinct lacking understanding what it means being a community. Tuggeranong is not being treated and differently to anywhere else in the town but it certainly has this massive chip on its shoulder. There are pockets elsewhere. Where I live in west Belco there are a few groups who echo the same sentiments we hear from Tuggeranong. Must admit cannot see what they are on about. One group wants a pool, one wants this one wants that reality is we already have it just not shiny and new like Gungahlin which oblyvgetsvthis stuff because it is the new area. Just like when I moved to west Belco the funding focus for new stuff had moved to Tuggeranong. Just the way it is kit some way at screwing one group to hit votes elsewhere.

gooterz 7:19 pm 13 Jun 16

JC said :

Kim Huynh said :

vip.peter said :

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Well, it’s better than Civic bus interchange. Plus in a better position. At least one can take their shopping trolley there with the shopping and there is a place designed to leave trolleys. Civic is too far from most shops and the facilities are worse than Woden. Compared to Civic, Woden was okay before work was commenced on it, so I don’t know why you appear to be complaining about it. So, it hasn’t been upgraded since it was built…that doesn’t mean it needed lots of major work.

And better than Belconnen as well.

Didn’t think Belconnen was too bad. Used to have the bridge across.. (Flyover) as well they had the red bridge up further.
The community bus stations idea, seems ok. Just there aren’t enough busses.

gooterz 7:18 pm 13 Jun 16

dungfungus said :

vip.peter said :

What Tuggeranong got 15-20m years ago was the budget solution, half finished bridge piers lay where expansions could be made, however they never were. The idea being that once the area grew (and it did) there would be cause to upgrade based on traffic flow. However instead we have Bandaid solutions. We’re told rat running is a huge problem.
North side has a flyover for the Aranda exit which seems to service but a single suburb. Most of the south is a repeat offender for being on the blackspot program.

Its not just gungahlin either several areas in belconnen town centre got hot mix where the those in Tuggeranong got gravel, that was either hot glued down or just asked to sit quietly because it peeled within a week. Western Creek got a mix of quicksand.

Sadly not even proceeding with the road duplications the government has ambitiously started to develop in the land set aside. The area next to Athlon drive is all set as land for future development.

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Wow the pettiness amazes me, well actually it doesn’t.

Firstly Tuggeranong roads being built single lane, what you mean the same as Gungahlin? Hmmm

Aranda exit, ohh whoopty do you do realise the reason it is there is because the local road that used to service it got taken over by Gungahlin drive.

Gravel roads, hmm the roads in Tuggeranong were not built that way they have got it as part of maintenance exactly what has happened in the suburban Gungahlin roads recently. There gets to be a time where they need a complete resurface some suburbs in Tuggeranong may be due thinking more Kanabah area.

Widen interchange had had a least one major upgrade and I think two actually. With a 3rd due.

Still yet to see any evidence Tuggeranong or the Southside is getting shafted. Lots of whinging though.

Quit using straw man arguments. The question stands that why Aranda was an overpass, where the same bit of road down south is traffic lights? There is such little traffic coming from Aranda I would say the cop that is usually hiding on the off-ramp is there more than any legitimate traffic is.

The road surface thing was a town centre where there would be the most amount of wear. The same towncentre locations in Belconnen and elsewhere are all hotmix. The quality wasn’t even good enough to last a week. Aka.. It was terrible no matter what anyone else had. But that level of terrible wouldn’t be seen further north.

The evidence is in the vote. Why is it that the biggest swing to the Libs was in the southside?
50 thousand people can’t all be wrong surely?

JC 3:55 pm 13 Jun 16

Masquara said :

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

Why discount Gungahlin from this argument, it is as much Northside and in the party electorate as Tuggeranong? Majura Parkway has several large extravagant flyovers, the King’s Highway flyover at Majura/Horse Park Drive, King’s avenue/Morsehead Drive, the one over the footpath at Bowen Place outside the National Gallery and many. many more.
I think Gooterz is talking about the total number of flyovers on major traffic areas, old and new. Planning for the flow of traffic seems to favor Northern suburbs whilst Tuggers gets another roundabout instead. Look at all the major arterial roads in and out of Tuggeranong and none of them have flyovers to help with traffic flow. The busiest ones now have temporary traffic lights instead.
I couldn’t find any data on traffic flows but the experience of simply driving along Athlon, Erindale or Drakeford Drives gives one the impression that flyovers [Majura Parkway, Parkes Way, GDE] definitely reduce the craziness that lights and roundabouts do.

Why discount Gungahlin very simple? Most of this Northside Southside rot is really Tuggeranong Vs Gungahlin not any genuine discussion at north Vs south. And the reason Gungahlin gets more nice new shiny stuff is because it is the growth area of the act. Just like how 15-25 years ago Tuggeranong was and was getting more than say Belco. New investment always logically and quite rightly favours new areas. Fear not south Gungahlin is almost complete so soon Molonglo which is south will see a disproportionate amount of infrastructure spending and the bulk of it is Southside.

But seeing as you have changed the conversation can I point out a couple of pertinent facts? Fact one the city which is where most main roads lead is Northside. So of course the roads leading to and getting closer to the city will be better and have grade separated intersections. All the roads you mention essentially feed the city.

But, and including Gungahlin here in the actual town centres I struggle to think of any grade separated intersections anywhere. So don’t see your point. The whole town is the same. Roundabouts and traffic lights to get to a main road then grade seperate to the city.

As for Majura road it is not just for Gungahlin it is also a very helpful road for Tuggeranong, Woden and inner south people too. It allows an easier path to get to the federal highway without going town the Tuggeranong parkway and Barton highway or going up Northborne ave. And as dungers always points out all the heavy vehicles servicing Hume and Fyshwick both of why are Southside.

“And as dungers always points out all the heavy vehicles servicing Hume and Fyshwick both of why are Southside.”
I don’t recall that so stop verballing me.

What so your saying you have never said Majura road will benefit heavy vehicles going to Hume and Fyshwick? Could have fooled me.

JC 3:30 pm 13 Jun 16

Kim Huynh said :

vip.peter said :

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Well, it’s better than Civic bus interchange. Plus in a better position. At least one can take their shopping trolley there with the shopping and there is a place designed to leave trolleys. Civic is too far from most shops and the facilities are worse than Woden. Compared to Civic, Woden was okay before work was commenced on it, so I don’t know why you appear to be complaining about it. So, it hasn’t been upgraded since it was built…that doesn’t mean it needed lots of major work.

And better than Belconnen as well.

JC 3:05 pm 13 Jun 16

vip.peter said :

What Tuggeranong got 15-20m years ago was the budget solution, half finished bridge piers lay where expansions could be made, however they never were. The idea being that once the area grew (and it did) there would be cause to upgrade based on traffic flow. However instead we have Bandaid solutions. We’re told rat running is a huge problem.
North side has a flyover for the Aranda exit which seems to service but a single suburb. Most of the south is a repeat offender for being on the blackspot program.

Its not just gungahlin either several areas in belconnen town centre got hot mix where the those in Tuggeranong got gravel, that was either hot glued down or just asked to sit quietly because it peeled within a week. Western Creek got a mix of quicksand.

Sadly not even proceeding with the road duplications the government has ambitiously started to develop in the land set aside. The area next to Athlon drive is all set as land for future development.

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Wow the pettiness amazes me, well actually it doesn’t.

Firstly Tuggeranong roads being built single lane, what you mean the same as Gungahlin? Hmmm

Aranda exit, ohh whoopty do you do realise the reason it is there is because the local road that used to service it got taken over by Gungahlin drive.

Gravel roads, hmm the roads in Tuggeranong were not built that way they have got it as part of maintenance exactly what has happened in the suburban Gungahlin roads recently. There gets to be a time where they need a complete resurface some suburbs in Tuggeranong may be due thinking more Kanabah area.

Widen interchange had had a least one major upgrade and I think two actually. With a 3rd due.

Still yet to see any evidence Tuggeranong or the Southside is getting shafted. Lots of whinging though.

Maya123 2:02 pm 13 Jun 16

vip.peter said :

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

Well, it’s better than Civic bus interchange. Plus in a better position. At least one can take their shopping trolley there with the shopping and there is a place designed to leave trolleys. Civic is too far from most shops and the facilities are worse than Woden. Compared to Civic, Woden was okay before work was commenced on it, so I don’t know why you appear to be complaining about it. So, it hasn’t been upgraded since it was built…that doesn’t mean it needed lots of major work.

dungfungus 1:17 pm 13 Jun 16

No_Nose said :

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

With the rapidly growing Muslim population in Canberra, the term “pork” barrelling will have to be changed soon or they will be offended.

I hear they are going to build a mosque and a church across the road from your place Guess you won’t complain about the church but will complain about traffic and noise from the mosque?

The mosque is already there JC. There is a vague Christian centre nearby.
Was originally called a cultural centre and library but it was approved as a mosque about 5 years ago.
The traffic and noise doesn’t bother me, yet.

gooterz 12:47 pm 13 Jun 16

What Tuggeranong got 15-20m years ago was the budget solution, half finished bridge piers lay where expansions could be made, however they never were. The idea being that once the area grew (and it did) there would be cause to upgrade based on traffic flow. However instead we have Bandaid solutions. We’re told rat running is a huge problem.
North side has a flyover for the Aranda exit which seems to service but a single suburb. Most of the south is a repeat offender for being on the blackspot program.

Its not just gungahlin either several areas in belconnen town centre got hot mix where the those in Tuggeranong got gravel, that was either hot glued down or just asked to sit quietly because it peeled within a week. Western Creek got a mix of quicksand.

Sadly not even proceeding with the road duplications the government has ambitiously started to develop in the land set aside. The area next to Athlon drive is all set as land for future development.

How is work going on Woden bus interchange? Hadn’t been upgraded since it was built.

dungfungus 11:38 am 13 Jun 16

Skyring said :

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

Why discount Gungahlin from this argument, it is as much Northside and in the party electorate as Tuggeranong? Majura Parkway has several large extravagant flyovers, the King’s Highway flyover at Majura/Horse Park Drive, King’s avenue/Morsehead Drive, the one over the footpath at Bowen Place outside the National Gallery and many. many more.
I think Gooterz is talking about the total number of flyovers on major traffic areas, old and new. Planning for the flow of traffic seems to favor Northern suburbs whilst Tuggers gets another roundabout instead. Look at all the major arterial roads in and out of Tuggeranong and none of them have flyovers to help with traffic flow. The busiest ones now have temporary traffic lights instead.
I couldn’t find any data on traffic flows but the experience of simply driving along Athlon, Erindale or Drakeford Drives gives one the impression that flyovers [Majura Parkway, Parkes Way, GDE] definitely reduce the craziness that lights and roundabouts do.

Why discount Gungahlin very simple? Most of this Northside Southside rot is really Tuggeranong Vs Gungahlin not any genuine discussion at north Vs south. And the reason Gungahlin gets more nice new shiny stuff is because it is the growth area of the act. Just like how 15-25 years ago Tuggeranong was and was getting more than say Belco. New investment always logically and quite rightly favours new areas. Fear not south Gungahlin is almost complete so soon Molonglo which is south will see a disproportionate amount of infrastructure spending and the bulk of it is Southside.

But seeing as you have changed the conversation can I point out a couple of pertinent facts? Fact one the city which is where most main roads lead is Northside. So of course the roads leading to and getting closer to the city will be better and have grade separated intersections. All the roads you mention essentially feed the city.

But, and including Gungahlin here in the actual town centres I struggle to think of any grade separated intersections anywhere. So don’t see your point. The whole town is the same. Roundabouts and traffic lights to get to a main road then grade seperate to the city.

As for Majura road it is not just for Gungahlin it is also a very helpful road for Tuggeranong, Woden and inner south people too. It allows an easier path to get to the federal highway without going town the Tuggeranong parkway and Barton highway or going up Northborne ave. And as dungers always points out all the heavy vehicles servicing Hume and Fyshwick both of why are Southside.

“And as dungers always points out all the heavy vehicles servicing Hume and Fyshwick both of why are Southside.”
I don’t recall that so stop verballing me.

JC 11:28 am 13 Jun 16

No_Nose said :

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

With the rapidly growing Muslim population in Canberra, the term “pork” barrelling will have to be changed soon or they will be offended.

I hear they are going to build a mosque and a church across the road from your place Guess you won’t complain about the church but will complain about traffic and noise from the mosque?

JC 10:35 am 13 Jun 16

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

Why discount Gungahlin from this argument, it is as much Northside and in the party electorate as Tuggeranong? Majura Parkway has several large extravagant flyovers, the King’s Highway flyover at Majura/Horse Park Drive, King’s avenue/Morsehead Drive, the one over the footpath at Bowen Place outside the National Gallery and many. many more.
I think Gooterz is talking about the total number of flyovers on major traffic areas, old and new. Planning for the flow of traffic seems to favor Northern suburbs whilst Tuggers gets another roundabout instead. Look at all the major arterial roads in and out of Tuggeranong and none of them have flyovers to help with traffic flow. The busiest ones now have temporary traffic lights instead.
I couldn’t find any data on traffic flows but the experience of simply driving along Athlon, Erindale or Drakeford Drives gives one the impression that flyovers [Majura Parkway, Parkes Way, GDE] definitely reduce the craziness that lights and roundabouts do.

Why discount Gungahlin very simple? Most of this Northside Southside rot is really Tuggeranong Vs Gungahlin not any genuine discussion at north Vs south. And the reason Gungahlin gets more nice new shiny stuff is because it is the growth area of the act. Just like how 15-25 years ago Tuggeranong was and was getting more than say Belco. New investment always logically and quite rightly favours new areas. Fear not south Gungahlin is almost complete so soon Molonglo which is south will see a disproportionate amount of infrastructure spending and the bulk of it is Southside.

But seeing as you have changed the conversation can I point out a couple of pertinent facts? Fact one the city which is where most main roads lead is Northside. So of course the roads leading to and getting closer to the city will be better and have grade separated intersections. All the roads you mention essentially feed the city.

But, and including Gungahlin here in the actual town centres I struggle to think of any grade separated intersections anywhere. So don’t see your point. The whole town is the same. Roundabouts and traffic lights to get to a main road then grade seperate to the city.

As for Majura road it is not just for Gungahlin it is also a very helpful road for Tuggeranong, Woden and inner south people too. It allows an easier path to get to the federal highway without going town the Tuggeranong parkway and Barton highway or going up Northborne ave. And as dungers always points out all the heavy vehicles servicing Hume and Fyshwick both of why are Southside.

wildturkeycanoe 7:33 am 13 Jun 16

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

Why discount Gungahlin from this argument, it is as much Northside and in the party electorate as Tuggeranong? Majura Parkway has several large extravagant flyovers, the King’s Highway flyover at Majura/Horse Park Drive, King’s avenue/Morsehead Drive, the one over the footpath at Bowen Place outside the National Gallery and many. many more.
I think Gooterz is talking about the total number of flyovers on major traffic areas, old and new. Planning for the flow of traffic seems to favor Northern suburbs whilst Tuggers gets another roundabout instead. Look at all the major arterial roads in and out of Tuggeranong and none of them have flyovers to help with traffic flow. The busiest ones now have temporary traffic lights instead.
I couldn’t find any data on traffic flows but the experience of simply driving along Athlon, Erindale or Drakeford Drives gives one the impression that flyovers [Majura Parkway, Parkes Way, GDE] definitely reduce the craziness that lights and roundabouts do.

dungfungus 11:21 am 11 Jun 16

dungfungus said :

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

With the rapidly growing Muslim population in Canberra, the term “pork” barrelling will have to be changed soon or they will be offended.

JC 10:09 am 11 Jun 16

gooterz said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

gooterz said :

dungfungus said :

As for Gungahlin getting more than Belco or Tuggers, been answered before it is the growth area so will sap up more new money than established areas. Just as Tuggernaong sap that money in the 80’s and early 90’s, and just as Molonglo is starting to do and as construction in Gungahlin slows it will transfer that way.

I dont think anyone disagrees with that. The issue is just how much even basic maintenance and repairs have slipped in Tuggeranong and maintenance of the status quo – let alone substantive improvements.

Personally I don’t think maintenance and upkeep is any worse outside of the new areas. New infrastructure yes, but for the obvious reasons . And I live in West Belconnen… An area that seems to have a lot of people complaining what about me and I sit there scratching my head asking what more do you want?

Even new parts of down south are done poorly. The roads are far less quality than their northern counterparts. There are many more flyovers up north for less people than down south. Its simply that money only sees the voters that vote Labor.

Its taken until 2016 to get lights and fencing on the parkway, however that’s fully funded from the feds.
Majura parkway helps the south siders head out of town.

Last major work around Tuggeranong was the part duplication of Athlon drive 7 years ago. The roads between Sulwood drive and Drakeford drive didn’t get the duplication but got a speed (average) camera that’s useless.

There seems to be a major accident on this route every 6 months.

The south intersection of Drakeford and Athlon drive seems like a hatchet job of crazy.
You can’t see oncoming traffic because there’s a pile of roundabout in the way. There needs to be lights to control traffic to the round about and you end up with lots of traffic rat running around the whole area.

The go to response to just wack in some speed claiming devices in the suburbs to persuade motorists to wait in queue instead.

If this intersection was on the north side it’d already have a flyover with fancy lighting.
I guess we’ll have to wait for the feds to give us money for all our upgrades.

http://the-riotact.com/curtin-traffic-changes-for-your-consideration/62006

Can you give some examples of these wonderful northside flyovers? I can think of a couple on Gungahlin drive, but by the same token I can think of just as many on the Tuggeranong Parkway.

Roads projects, ignoring Gungahlin for a moment, where are all these northside road projects. And I say ignore Gungahlin, because quite clearly being where the new suburbs are of course you are going to get new roads and the like.

PS Molonoglo is southside too, but I have ignored it for the same reason as Gungahlin above.

So really what I am saying is if you are talking Tuggeranong when you say south and when you talk north you really mean Gungahlin then don’t think you have much to complain about. If you do genuinly mean the northside, eg North Canberra and Belconnen, then I put it to you that your claims of pork barrelling for Labor votes is very much mistaken. The north minus Gungahlin is no better nor no worse than Tuggeranong when it comes to getting roads and new services.

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