Road rule reminder: You can't stop there

Postalgeek said :

Speaking of road rules, can someone please decrypt the protocol of this intersection in Griffith. I still can’t work it out. There are no lane markings/signs of any kind:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.321314,149.139045&spn=0.000891,0.001404&t=h&z=20

Are you serious? You mean to tell me you do not know who has right-of-way here? My friend, I believe you have been living in this ACT nanny state far too long! Let me explain to you that you must give way on a road that terminates. Lefroy St terminates. Regardless of the slip lane. Simple.

So on the corner of Athlon Dr and Pitman St in Tuggeranong, there is a traffic light with a sign right next to it saying “No Stopping”. So when the light is red I stop, and thus break the law. Nice.

Sometimes it seems like rules are just made to make everone a law breaker.

AstralPlane, I believe you may be the only honest poster here.

OT….. as a young, holier-than-thou P-plater, I would carry around three witches hats in my boot and park wherever the hell I wanted and just ‘cordon’ off my vehicle. Illegal? Yes. Lazy? Yes. Dangerous? Probably? Time saving? Hells yes.

AstralPlane said :

So… if Rawhide is right (I’m too lazy to look it up) that demonstrates the point. Jasere, you just can’t do it, like you say, “simple as that”, eh. Why is it ok to break the rule against parking people in but not ok to break the rule about parking in a loading zone?

Surely Rawhide can’t be right. I would be shocked if, after your hard line about loading zones that when it suits you, you also turn out to be… an offender. Should have put that word in upper case.

Australian Road Rules (Feb 2009)
Rule No 209
Sub rule No 2C
if the driver does not park in a parking bay — at least
1 metre from the closest point of any vehicle in front of
it and any vehicle behind it.

I stop in loading zones and wait for people like you Jasere, its becoming a good fun sport………..

and should i also assume you saunter about the place wearing a fluro vest, thereby entitling you to park any place, any time.

can the macho men here going on about their use of loading zones and how they are heroes parking other people in for daring park in what they deem to be their personal parking spaces, please explain to me the policy intent of the loading zone. other than ‘i drive a van for work’.

just, not juts…

i was juts thinking to meself this morning, why is it i have to obey the motor traffic act and regulations, particularly the not parking on the wrong side of the road (‘not park close and parallel’, i think it is) but builders seem under no such obligation. i wonder why that is, can anyone explain?

and yay for the comments above pointing out that taking the law into your own hands and parking someone in who stood in a loading zone unlawfully is also wrong. fcuk you – go get a beret and form a chapter of the guardian angels or something useful. like, when did you become god?

and while i’m ranting, while not on motor traffic but pedestrian traffic, who else gets frustrated when other pedestrians walk blithely on the right side of a passage way (footpath, aisle, etc) just because, as it happens, they want to go to the right another twenty/fifty/two hundred feet further along, when you’re trying to do the right thing and keep left – isn’t that the default option in australia?? ‘s like people who step into a lift as the doors open as if it would be unheralded and entirely impossible that someone might actually already be in there trying to step out…

[/rant]

Anna Key said :

What’s the laws regarding security vans? While there are obviously security and safety matters when it comes to carting around large amounts of money, sometimes their parking habits can show a big disregard for anyone else. (Not intended as a whinge, just curious)

Not sure of the laws regarding the vans, but I’ve seen parking inspectors book armoured security trucks before; most turn a blind eye to it though, because if you’re carrying a couple of hundred thousand dollars in your hand, it’s best not to park too far away.

AstralPlane said :

Sometimes disobeying a law shows commonsense, not a lack of it. It’s just not black and white, it all depends.

I’m with AstralPlane.

There remains a law on the NSW statute books that prohibits the passage of elephants down George Street, Sydney. If I was a circus owner, however, and was asked to walk an elephant down George Street as part of a parade, I wouldn’t decline; that statute is both absurd, and unlikely to be enforced. Plus I like elephants.

There is no way any law can cater for all circumstances. AstralPlane’s use of the loading zone is at once fair, reasonable and illegal! Police are given some capacity to use their judgement as to whether to pursue offenders for this reason, but I think that any copper who would give any more than a warning to a parent for such an offence is just a miserable old fool.

What’s the laws regarding security vans? While there are obviously security and safety matters when it comes to carting around large amounts of money, sometimes their parking habits can show a big disregard for anyone else. (Not intended as a whinge, just curious)

183 Stopping in a bus zone
……
Note that these rules prohibit both stopping and parking.

^^ Thats the ones that really pisses me off (as a frequent bus user), the fact that people think “oh, theres no bus here atm, it doesn’t matter if I just stop here” and then wonder why they’re being blasted on the horn 1 min later by the bus trying to let off / pick up passengers at the stop.

The bus stop on Newcastle Street in Fyshwick outside the car yard (not the one outside the Golf store opposite) is notorious for this, at least 1/3rd of the time my bus gets there in the morning there is always someone stopped there, sometimes there is a parked car with no driver to be seen.

I wish someone would start enforcing the “don’t park on nature strip” rule. Particularly where someone parks half off the road over a kerbside footpath, on a driveway across a footpath, or just generally across the nature strip so that pedestrians (particularly children and people with prams or in wheelchairs/scooters) have to walk onto the road to pass.

The same goes for people who put in nature strip landscaping which is not able to be easily walked (or wheeled) through.

Of course city rangers are so interested in policing this (not). TAMS will act almost immediately to carry out footpath repairs requested by a wheelchair user, but pretty much nothing can (or will?) be done where car parking and/or landscaping blocks nature strips without a footpath (in our area only streets bounding the suburb and the main through road have footpaths).

I have stopped in Loading and Taxi zones to load/unload a passenger in a wheelchair if there is nowhere else to pull over out of the stream of traffic. Generally both have kerb ramps so that the person can wheel off the road quickly without negotiating traffic. The Corinna St taxi rank at Woden doesn’t though…

Sgt.Bungers said :

Rule 198 prohibits a vehicle to be stopped so as to block access to a foot path or driveway access ramp. Most people are aware of parking in front of driveways being illegal, but not aware that the same law prohibits parking in front of foot path access ramps.

This also applies to cars parked in front of the ramp in front of my house with no driveway as well apparently, so I assume that is the case everywhere.

i parked my car in front of my own house because the trailer was hitched on and went inside for about 15 mins. Came back out to find a cop giving me a ticket for parking there.
What happened next was really interesting. After i drove off an came home about and hour later there was another car there, as the people across the road were having a bbq. About an hour after that the cop walked out, still in uniform, with who I later found out was his wife and they got in the car and drove off. He even had the balls to wave at me as they left.

I called the police station and the next day he came to my door with another cop (who had more stuff on his shoulders) and apologised. I was informed that it would be dealt with. Haven’t seen him in uniform at my neighbours house since.

Clown Killer said :

Hey Clown Killer is a big shame the ute owner did not catch you breaking in to his ute.

Perhaps, but I’d put a fair bet on the fact that if he did, all he would have been doing was apologising while moving his ute.

Yeah, if I saw someone breaking into my car, I’d wait for them to explain how I was illegally parked, accept that explanation, apologise and then move my car.

Or, more than likely, I’d have kicked the sh!t out of the person breaking into my car, called the cops and then explained to them how I caught you breaking into my car.

I like how you justify the wrong of parking illegally to break into a car which seems to me to be a bigger crime but somehow maintain a sense a moral rightness while doing it.

Kudos

If someone didn’t leave enough room for me to get out, I’d love to have a huge bull bar on my car, truck or ute.

AstralPlane said :

Me, I stop in the loading zone all the time when I shouldn’t. I do it, for example, when I have four kids in the car and I can pull up, jump out and return a library book, post a letter or return a video without getting all the screaming kids out. I use your precious loading zone for about 15 seconds and if I didn’t it would take about 15 minutes to park, get all the kids out and walk across the road with them. The trade off, where you might have to wait 15 seconds in order to save me 15 minutes and the aggro, is surely one we can all live with, in the name of giving each other a break and helping each other out. Isn’t it?

I think I get the picture. You are a self centred, ignorant bogan who is happy to demonstrate a blatant disregard for the law infront of your feral kids who will no doubt turn out just like you!!!!!

jasere said :

I use a van for work and I don’t care you park in a loading zone I will block you in or park so close to the front or back of your car you can’t get out. The best part is when they try and have a go at me for doing it.

that’s been 5 years now, schooling one fool at a time

Good luck with that. Then one day the ‘fool’ will move you and your van involuntarily. Leave the law enforcement to the professionals

Just keep in mind not all couriers and delivery drivers use vans or trucks some have sedans with a loading zone permit sticker so it might be idea to check before doing something you might regret

So… if Rawhide is right (I’m too lazy to look it up) that demonstrates the point. Jasere, you just can’t do it, like you say, “simple as that”, eh. Why is it ok to break the rule against parking people in but not ok to break the rule about parking in a loading zone?

Surely Rawhide can’t be right. I would be shocked if, after your hard line about loading zones that when it suits you, you also turn out to be… an offender. Should have put that word in upper case.

AstralPlane said :

Yeah. Thanks for that. For a minute there I thought “no stopping” meant “stop when ever you want”. I must have thought it read “no not stopping”. Good to have that cleared up.

It is also pleasing to see that the people posting comments are such fabulous, perfect, law abiding citizens that they can safely jump on the old high horse and have a spray at people stopping in a loading zone.

It would be naive for anyone to claim they’ve never, ever broken a road rule in their life time. Never accidentally crept 1km/h over the limit. Never driven without due care and attention (think suddenly finding yourself awake at the wheel and not being able to remember the last 5 minutes). Never clipped a solid white line. Never driven through an amber traffic light when it could’ve been argued that the vehicle could have safely been stopped… I’m sure I’ve broken all of these at one point or another, just like every single driver on RiotACT is likely to have.

However, without a “back seat driver” in the car who annoyingly points our mistakes out to us, most drivers never, ever receive any negative feed back for their bad/illegal habits. Enter one of the biggest problems on the road. Every survey I have ever heard about regarding what people think of their own driving skills, indicates that almost every driver thinks they’re above average to excellent drivers. Why? We could make stacks of small mistakes on a daily drive, and nobody ever corrects us. Nobody ever has words with us. They can’t. We’re shut up in our own little sound proof cage. It is considered rude for passengers to point out shortfalls in a drivers skills. The most we’re ever likely to get is a horn from another driver or a finger from a pedestrian, which most people will translate as that person being crazy. In the odd chance a person does break a law in front of a police officer and receives a good talking to, the driver will consider themselves unlucky, as opposed to thinking “gee my mistake could’ve killed someone.”

So discussions like this regarding our driving are essential. It gives people a chance to privately think about their driving habits, become aware of laws they may have been breaking for decades, all without the embarrassment and $$$ of being pulled over by a police officer… or worse… killing someone on the road.

Besides, when has the internet ever been anything more than a collection of opinionated rants masquerading as an information source anyway? 🙂

Speaking of road rules, can someone please decrypt the protocol of this intersection in Griffith. I still can’t work it out. There are no lane markings/signs of any kind:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-35.321314,149.139045&spn=0.000891,0.001404&t=h&z=20

As the local road rules expert, are people allowed to park their car on a road with double lines? (as in do not overtake lines)

Yes, with conditions. Australian Road Rule 208 governs this. If you park on a road with a continuous (unbroken) centre line or dividing strip, you must park as near to the edge of the road as you can, and leave at least 3 metres of space between your vehicle and the centre line or dividing strip.

Don’t be caught out by ARR 197 though. ARR 197 prohibits people from stopping or parking with any part of their vehicle on a nature strip (the area 1.2 metres from the edge of any road in a built up area) or a foot path. So parking a vehicle “half way off the road” so to speak, so as to leave the 3 metres as required in 208, is also illegal. Breaches of 197 are incredibly common in Canberra’s residential streets, which I suspect is a result of ignorance of the law due to it being enforced once in a blue moon.

Rule 198 prohibits a vehicle to be stopped so as to block access to a foot path or driveway access ramp. Most people are aware of parking in front of driveways being illegal, but not aware that the same law prohibits parking in front of foot path access ramps.

The Australian Road Rules can be found at:

http://www.ntc.gov.au/viewpage.aspx?documentid=00794

Clown Killer said :

Hey Clown Killer is a big shame the ute owner did not catch you breaking in to his ute.

Perhaps, but I’d put a fair bet on the fact that if he did, all he would have been doing was apologising while moving his ute.

OOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW hahahahaha

pepmeup, I think you’re nearly with me. Pointing out that there are rules is boring. More interesting is discussing that in fact there are blurry lines between what is acceptable and what is not and that where that line lies is different for each of us and that part of the way society works is that we give each other a bit and we take a bit. That’s what we do.

But on commonsence I disagree entirely. Sometimes disobeying a law shows commonsense, not a lack of it. It’s just not black and white, it all depends.

For the record, disabled spots, no. Emergency access, no. Well, not yet.

Search your memory and then see if you can look me in the eye and say you have never flouted a recognised law, however small. Go on.

pptvb said :

LOADING ZONE ” people, NOT “LAZY PR%$KS ” zone.

simple as that.

Clown Killer stop breaking into cars and AstralPlane get off your LAZY A$$

jasere said :

I use a van for work and I don’t care you park in a loading zone I will block you in or park so close to the front or back of your car you can’t get out. The best part is when they try and have a go at me for doing it.

that’s been 5 years now, schooling one fool at a time

Er I think its illegal to block any vehicle even if that vehicle is parked illegally. You vehicle could also be booked as well as the illegally parked one. It has something to do with the required distance to be kept between parked vehicles. But then I could be wrong.

AstralPlane said :

– driven through an orange light;
– driven over the speed limit;
– failed to vote;
– put your tax return in late;
– taken your dog off the lead where you shouldn’t;
– let off a firework during the wrong hours;
– jaywalked;
– ridden your bike across a pedestrian crossing; or
– put your ex housemate’s personally addressed junk mail in the bin.

Hay! That’s me! Have you been watching?

Hey Clown Killer is a big shame the ute owner did not catch you breaking in to his ute.

Perhaps, but I’d put a fair bet on the fact that if he did, all he would have been doing was apologising while moving his ute.

Well done Astralplane, do you also park in disabled spots just to save a little time for yourself. Maybe the emergency access clearways as well. Just as long as you get your dvd back on time i guess its alright. I personally don’t leave my kids alone in the car for any length of time, but the fact you flout recognised laws shows your basic lack of common sense.

Yeah. Thanks for that. For a minute there I thought “no stopping” meant “stop when ever you want”. I must have thought it read “no not stopping”. Good to have that cleared up.

It is also pleasing to see that the people posting comments are such fabulous, perfect, law abiding citizens that they can safely jump on the old high horse and have a spray at people stopping in a loading zone. I’m assuming youse can do so because youse come from a position of never having ignored a law because youse found it, in youse particular circumstances, convenient to do so. For example, youse have never:
– driven through an orange light;
– driven over the speed limit;
– failed to vote;
– put your tax return in late;
– taken your dog off the lead where you shouldn’t;
– let off a firework during the wrong hours;
– jaywalked;
– ridden your bike across a pedestrian crossing; or
– put your ex housemate’s personally addressed junk mail in the bin.

The first two, compared to stopping in a loading zone, are particularly bad, because the put the lives of other road users at risk. But you wouldn’t have ever done those things because you’re the sort of upstanding person who doesn’t commit the much lesser offence of stopping in a loading zone when you shouldn’t.

Me, I stop in the loading zone all the time when I shouldn’t. I do it, for example, when I have four kids in the car and I can pull up, jump out and return a library book, post a letter or return a video without getting all the screaming kids out. I use your precious loading zone for about 15 seconds and if I didn’t it would take about 15 minutes to park, get all the kids out and walk across the road with them. The trade off, where you might have to wait 15 seconds in order to save me 15 minutes and the aggro, is surely one we can all live with, in the name of giving each other a break and helping each other out. Isn’t it?

Or have you never found yourself needing to take a small liberty? Never driven a bit fast when late for work? Really?

Pointing out the there are rules is a pretty boring post. There are lots of rules, we can just look them up anytime we want without having to be harangued about them here. There are much more interesting subjects like:

– whether we want to live in a society that is so strictly bound by rules that one must not break even the most minor of them (I don’t, do you?);

– who died and made jasere the enforcer and if s/he loves it so much why doesn’t s/he quit his/her job that requires a van and join the parking police?;

– if, when parked in deliberately by jasere at a loading zone, it is morally ok (or perhaps necessary) for me to add another dent to the many, many, many blemishes in my bumper bar, about which I could not give a toss, by backing into jasere’s van?

Clown Killer said :

I had to break into the tossers ute i>

Hey Clown Killer is a big shame the ute owner did not catch you breaking in to his ute.
Now I have a target to look for a tosser with a scratched chrome tow ball

Almost always a risk benefit and people will often just pull over in some of these locations to drop off or pick up a passenger. It is fun watching bus drivers sit on their horns to get idiots stopped in a bus stop to move.

As the local road rules expert, are people allowed to park their car on a road with double lines? (as in do not overtake lines)

You can park curbside provided vehicles do not have to cross the unbroken lines to pass your parked vehicle. It is an offence if they do becuase you are obstructing traffic?!

Oh and I think you will find that there are caveats to the no parking/stopping as any vehicle I believe is allowed under an emergency.

And I agree it is probably more to do with complacency and risk/benefit over ignorance.

“I use a van for work and I don’t care you park in a loading zone I will block you in or park so close to the front or back of your car you can’t get out.

It’s true, this happened to me in Braddon. I had to break into the tossers ute, let off the hand brake and then push his sh!tbox out of the way – the bummer of it all was that I scratched my chrome tow ball on the munters grill when I backed into him to push his car out of the way.

jasere said :

I use a van for work and I don’t care you park in a loading zone I will block you in or park so close to the front or back of your car you can’t get out. The best part is when they try and have a go at me for doing it.

that’s been 5 years now, schooling one fool at a time

I do the same.
It’s more fun if you can get someone to park 10mm from their front, another 10mm from the back, then watch.
Or 10mm from their drivers side door if it is parking bays.
“LOADING ZONE ” people, NOT “LAZY PR%$KS ” zone.

You’re right, a lot of people do seem to violate these rules. However with these rules, I have a sneaking suspicion this is by choice after a quick risk/benefit analysis, rather than ignorance 🙂

I use a van for work and I don’t care you park in a loading zone I will block you in or park so close to the front or back of your car you can’t get out. The best part is when they try and have a go at me for doing it. that’s been 5 years now, schooling one fool at a time