The solution to our public schools woes?

Kalfour said :

Let’s also not forget the fact that private schools have the right to expel kids while public schools can’t. So if your kid is at a public school in a classroom with a disruptive, violent student, the school doesn’t have the ability to do much.

The “fact” is that public schools can and do expel students. They get moved on to other public schools. The worst cases get sent to “achievement centres”.
Principals don’t like expulsions and suspensions, because they necessitate a crapload of paperwork and because schools are seen to be performing better if they don’t suspend or expel kids. So, the majority of kids who want to work have to suffer because of executive-level apathy.

Kalfour said :

@2604 – if a kid can’t read by year 8, there’s not much point in holding them back. Why they weren’t held back in year 3, or put into an early intervention program at a young age, is totally beyond me.

The point of holding a kid back is that you can teach her to read and then she won’t waste the remaining years of her high school education not understanding what is going on.

Hang on, first school closures were supposed to ‘fix’ the system. Then it was opening a couple of super schools. Then it was the college review. Then it was the SBM review. Then it was the special needs review. And now this?

I think it would be better all around if Barr just stopped now.

Why is the issue”providing small upgrades, gardens, chicken sheds or play equipment for younger students” instead of providing decently hygienic (mould free) schools with adequate heating and cooling systems and text books that are less than 50 years old?
Many teachers that I know actually had to shell out their own money on newer books for their students because the schools couldn’t afford to do it themselves. Children with special needs still often go unassisted in classrooms.
Maybe THESE issues should get a little more attention before we worry about ensuring that every school gets its own chicken.

Let’s also not forget the fact that private schools have the right to expel kids while public schools can’t. So if your kid is at a public school in a classroom with a disruptive, violent student, the school doesn’t have the ability to do much.

@2604 – if a kid can’t read by year 8, there’s not much point in holding them back. Why they weren’t held back in year 3, or put into an early intervention program at a young age, is totally beyond me.

Yeh, mould would seem a health issue that would close the school, not sure what is going on there.

creative_canberran said :

One of the bios has been updates with an absolutely classic line:

“Education is the best anti-poverty vaccine”.

The word vaccine is the “anti”, hence you don’t get an anti-polio vaccine or anti-flu vaccine. I only point this out because this group wants to tutor in schools… capacity for english is kind of important.

Lol ! Creative_canberran, you get my nomination to become supervisor of the hordes of parents/uni students who are sure to volunteer as tutors.

Shadow boxer, although I agree that physical environment might play a small part in choosing private over public, I know for me it was nonetheless factored into the desicion making process. What kind of message (however subliminal) does a child get from an environment with unaddressed mould problems, faulty air conditioning/heating systems,peeling paintwork etc ? Not to mention the impact on learning. If the space is not well cared for, how can we expect children to value it ?

Despite the fact people like to go on about swimming pools and stuff I would wager the physical environment has zero influence on why people are selecting private schools.

One of the bios has been updates with an absolutely classic line:

“Education is the best anti-poverty vaccine”.

The word vaccine is the “anti”, hence you don’t get an anti-polio vaccine or anti-flu vaccine. I only point this out because this group wants to tutor in schools… capacity for english is kind of important.

Actually; I’m sure lots of teachers would contribute to this fund if they could see real ideas for school improvement, and the physical results. Most teachers I know already contribute (financially) towards running their classes in some way, as well as other education-related causes. If this Foundation has some effect in shaming ACT DET or the ACT Government into spending some serious dollars on supporting physical school improvement – all the better. You could go to any Canberra public school (and likely the private ones, too) and see many, many ways in which the resources of this Foundation could be well utilised.

In ten years, I have yet to work in a school that does not have a leaking roof (quit pertinent today). The School I work in now has a $250,000 A/C system, installed three years ago from a Federal Government grant, that has NEVER worked effectively.

Shaming this Government into action may be the only way, God knows they don’t listen to either their parents or teachers/staff. The sooner the facilities management aspect of School Based Management is removed from School’s responsibility, back to DET or ACT Government, the better. The state of our school buildings is a disgrace.

Whilst this idea has better legs than Barr’s – you cannot get blood out of a stone. When contributions to programs in schools are ascribed ‘voluntary’ status, most will volunteer not to pay. This program would likely receive the same parental support.

What Andrew Barr fails to understand from his current proposals is that polishing a turd, or rolling it in glitter do not achieve the same result.

2604 said :

Watson said :

You may be right that (some) private schools have become more affordable, but it still doesn’t really explain why 50% of parents think they are better and don’t save their money instead.

As someone who lives in the Inner North, it is easy for you to look at “Watson Primary” (Majura?) and Lyneham High and think there is nothing wrong with government education in Canberra. However, those schools are outliers. Teachers compete to teach at such schools and they generally have the most highly-regarded principals. The parents are generally more involved and demanding of teachers. Parents also pay their voluntary contributions and are actively involved in the life of the school. According to MySchool, 74% of the kids attending “Watson primary” come from the wealthiest 25% of families.

Somewhere along the line, you also need to acknowledge that not every school in Canberra is a Majura or Lyneham and that things are very different in outer suburban government schools. Leadership is generally poor at such schools and they are overwhelmingly staffed by the least experienced teachers. Because of the stupid “kids can’t be punished for anything, ever” ethos, the schools get trashed and kids basically do whatever they want with no fear of being punished for any of it. Kid threatens another kid with a knife she brought to school? One day’s suspension. Kid can’t read by the end of year eight? He gets to go on to year nine, regardless, because the school thinks that keeping him with his peers is more important than ensuring he is employable in future.

I suppose that less of this stuff goes on at your kids’ school, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on elsewhere. The fact is that government education only works in affluent areas nowadays. In many less well-off areas, parents have found that paying for private education is the only way to ensure that their children are properly taught and assessed, and able to learn in a safe and disciplined environment. A couple of current and former teachers who post on this forum have confirmed this in previous discussion threads (as has Ms 2604, a government school teacher).

Something to think about before making a post that essentially says “why don’t these fools just send their kids to the local govvie school and save their money, like me”.

Hey, that wasn’t what I was saying at all! All I was saying that affordability alone doesn’t explain why people choose private!

The Watson school story was my response to the OP question about what we would like to see improved in public education and that was totally based on my own personal experience.

I should have learnt to just keep my mouth shut in posts on this topic because it’s not as if anyone is ever interested in actually having an open debate about it without making it escalate in an us against them name-calling session.