6 October 2012

Ratepayers association joins forces with the Liberals on that tripling thing

| johnboy
Join the conversation
32

So at 9.32 this morning the Ratepayers Association of the ACT issued a media release supporting the Liberals on the vexed issue of rate rises in the place of stamp duty:

Budget papers do not lie, at least the 2011-12 ones don’t. The figures show that rates would have to triple in order to abolish stamp duties.

Labor has refused to provide actual projections for individual ratepayers of what they can expect to pay, in today’s dollar terms, in the coming years for their property rates bills despite having a whole departments modelling of how it will happen. It’s very simple arithmetic take current average UCVs and multiple by the rating factor required to abolish stamp duties and you have the answer on a property by property basis.

If Labor wants to be believed all it has to do is publish what every individual property owner is entitled to know, before the upcoming election. Residents (ratepayers, tenants, boarders and people in share accommodation) all are entitled to know what their costs are going to be.

By 10:25 Zed’s team had replied:

Today’s statement from the ACT Ratepayers and Property Owners Association is proof that rates will triple under a Labor/Greens Government, ACT Opposition Leader Zed Seselja said today.

“The simple mathematics of this tax reform doesn?t lie,” Mr Seselja said.

“ACT Labor is phasing out stamp duty by replacing it with rates. This will triple rates by making households pay stamp duty every few years, forever.

“The numbers are blatantly obvious but Andrew Barr – who considers the family home a “tax haven? – isn?t being honest with Canberrans about his plans.

“I welcome today?s statement from the ACT Ratepayers and Properly Owners Association which gives Canberrans the truth about this tax grab. This is an independent organisation that exists only to protect the interests of ratepayers.

Handy that.

Join the conversation

32
All Comments
  • All Comments
  • Website Comments
LatestOldest

HenryBG said :

basketcase said :

What gets me is I have already paid my stamp duty, now they want me to pay it again. Mob of crooks.

Ah, but think of all those property investors who pay stamp duty all the time – they’ll be happy the rest of us are to be funding their landlordism.

Looks to me this is game set and match to the Libs: Rates *will* have to triple in order to cover the non-collection of Stamp Duty.

The ALP is being shifty with the costings because they want to keep pushing their lie for one more week.

Someone told me those those investors can claim it back off tax anyway. Apparently it’s because of some nuance with our leasehold system.

basketcase said :

What gets me is I have already paid my stamp duty, now they want me to pay it again. Mob of crooks.

Ah, but think of all those property investors who pay stamp duty all the time – they’ll be happy the rest of us are to be funding their landlordism.

Looks to me this is game set and match to the Libs: Rates *will* have to triple in order to cover the non-collection of Stamp Duty.

The ALP is being shifty with the costings because they want to keep pushing their lie for one more week.

devils_advocate2:38 pm 16 Oct 12

Jethro said :

pepmeup said :

If you are going to come on here and astroturf for the Liberal Party, at least try to avoid doing a Mitt Romney and don’t denigrate people who aren’t as wealthy as you.

Or assume that everyone chooses to spend a large chunk of their income on a residential property that they live in.

Pro tip: for everyone that “worked a little harder”, there are a bunch more people who probably didn’t work as hard, but have a bit more investment sense and common sense and consequently have both more income, more assets and a better quality of life than wannabe status-seekers like pepmeup.

colourful sydney racing identity1:49 pm 16 Oct 12

Frustrated said :

Who the hell are the Ratepayers Asociation of the ACT?

I wasn’t asked for any particular person to represent me as a ratepayer, sounds like a scam.

I am not a member, they have never made contact with me as a ratepayer.

I would recommend reviewing their website – http://www.poaa.asn.au/act/

*Membership*

Property owners in the ACT are welcome to receive our regular newsletter and are encouraged to provide input and feedback on all issues effecting property owners in the ACT.

Membership of the POAACT is limited to Committee members.’

*Executive Committee*
Executive Committee

President

Peter Jansen

And that is it. No credibility.

Labor would have been better off announcing that they would halve stamp duty over time and recouping lost revenue from an increase to rates and other services. They could have always come back in the future to review what to do with the remaining stamp duty revenue.

Labor might be quite honorable but the lack of any definite information for each property owner as to what their future payments might be and when and Labor’s perceived failure to lock in time frames is making a lot of people very nervous. I’m not a fan of the Libs but I can see how their scare campaign is getting traction.

LSWCHP said :

As it turned out, the “association” was just one guy who liked writing letters to politicians. He had a couple of friends who would get together a few times a year to have a “committee meeting” or an “AGM” and elect office bearers etc in order to satisfy the legal rules for being an association.

The joy is, you don’t need to have a committee, general meetings, etc. to be an association in the ACT. So, in practice, someone could set up an association called, say, “Canberra Ratepayers Association”, apply for that name through the normal business methods, and it would be all good. Hmm, I wonder if I could sell my opinion to the highest bidder. 🙂

Now, if you want to incorporate an association, that’s a whole different bucket of fish…

Peter Jansen just appears to be a former Liberal candidate who setup an “association” whose sole purpose is to be quoted by the Libs when they want to critise Labor about something to do with rates or housing.

What a huge surprise “they” are backing the Libs…

Frustrated said :

In response to my question about who the Rate payers association represent, i received from the following from a Mr Peter Jensen.

Good morning Stephen

You are not on our list of supporters, would you like me to add your name so that you can have some constructive input?

Thanks

Peter Jansen

Supporter?

Where does this fit in with representing me as a ratepayer!

In other words, this association represents nobody but the individual’s running it!

There was an association in the ACT back in the 1990’s called the Association for Public Policy Oversight or something like that. It used to send off long missives to politicians of all stripes on fancy letterhead paper and seemed very impressive. As it turned out, the “association” was just one guy who liked writing letters to politicians. He had a couple of friends who would get together a few times a year to have a “committee meeting” or an “AGM” and elect office bearers etc in order to satisfy the legal rules for being an association. But really, it was just one guy with a variety of axes to grind.

So, the Ratepayers Association (which I’ve never heard of, and doesn’t represent me either) could be anything from that sort of scam on upwards. I would be mildly interested to know how many members the association has.

Frustrated said :

In response to my question about who the Rate payers association represent, i received from the following from a Mr Peter Jensen.

Good morning Stephen

You are not on our list of supporters, would you like me to add your name so that you can have some constructive input?

Thanks

Peter Jansen

Supporter?

Where does this fit in with representing me as a ratepayer!

In other words, this association represents nobody but the individual’s running it!

What were you expecting? Something for nothing?

Gungahlin Al3:32 pm 07 Oct 12

Frustrated said :

Who the hell are the Ratepayers Asociation of the ACT

Who indeed? More than five years leading a Community Council plus attending Combined Community Council forums – never heard of this “association”…

In response to my question about who the Rate payers association represent, i received from the following from a Mr Peter Jensen.

Good morning Stephen

You are not on our list of supporters, would you like me to add your name so that you can have some constructive input?

Thanks

Peter Jansen

Supporter?

Where does this fit in with representing me as a ratepayer!

In other words, this association represents nobody but the individual’s running it!

Who the hell are the Ratepayers Asociation of the ACT?

I wasn’t asked for any particular person to represent me as a ratepayer, sounds like a scam.

I am not a member, they have never made contact with me as a ratepayer.

Jethro said :

pepmeup said :

And if you auv is less than $450k you know what’s coming, ask a few of your mates who worked a little harder in school what happening to their rates.

If you are going to come on here and astroturf for the Liberal Party, at least try to avoid doing a Mitt Romney and don’t denigrate people who aren’t as wealthy as you.

It was a joke,

I’m not wealthy at all

I drive a van for a living

Today’s Canberra Times had the ALP phasing out stamp duty over 20 years. That would be a time frame for corresponding rate increases.

For the record, our rates have almost tripled in the past decade, and the fixed component now (excludes UAV) is more than the total rates bill used to be.

JC said :

pepmeup said :

And if you auv is less than $450k you know what’s coming, ask a few of your mates who worked a little harder in school what happening to their rates.

Yep someone with a house with a UAV of $450,000 has gone from a rates payment of $1839 in FY 2011/12 to $2026 FY 2012/13. In increase of a whopping $187 p/a.

Source, not the Liberal party (or Labor for that matter) but the rates calculator on the ACT Government website.

http://www.revenue.act.gov.au/rates/rates_calculation

OMG! Resorting to the truth??? Whatta you – some kinda damned commie?

pepmeup said :

And if you auv is less than $450k you know what’s coming, ask a few of your mates who worked a little harder in school what happening to their rates.

Yep someone with a house with a UAV of $450,000 has gone from a rates payment of $1839 in FY 2011/12 to $2026 FY 2012/13. In increase of a whopping $187 p/a.

Source, not the Liberal party (or Labor for that matter) but the rates calculator on the ACT Government website.

http://www.revenue.act.gov.au/rates/rates_calculation

pepmeup said :

And if you auv is less than $450k you know what’s coming, ask a few of your mates who worked a little harder in school what happening to their rates.

If you are going to come on here and astroturf for the Liberal Party, at least try to avoid doing a Mitt Romney and don’t denigrate people who aren’t as wealthy as you.

Matt_Watts said :

My understanding is that there is nothing in the legislation to prevent the shift of the finances collected from stamp duty to be collected via rates at any speed the government wants. Happy to be corrected (this is just what I’ve been told).

Can’t the government increase taxes at any rate they see fit anyway, through whichever means suits them?

And if you auv is less than $450k you know what’s coming, ask a few of your mates who worked a little harder in school what happening to their rates.

People, check your latest rates notice that is where you will find the truth, if your auv is over $450k your getting stiffed

There’s a ratepayers assn? Shouldn’t almost everyone be in that?! I’m not. Sounds like a load of BS, but happy to be corrected! Hahahaha!

basketcase said :

What gets me is I have already paid my stamp duty, now they want me to pay it again. Mob of crooks.

Which is why we shouldn’t vote for them.

You are right, many of us will end up paying multiple times. It would be fairer to exclude current property owners who have already paid their stamp duty.

What gets me is I have already paid my stamp duty, now they want me to pay it again. Mob of crooks.

I suppose it would be asking too much of CityNews to do anything more than just regurgitate press releases and call it journalism? That is just about the most uninformative graph I have ever seen…

Duffbowl said :

Matt_Watts said :

JC said :

It is interesting to note that the table in the link below that shows how rates will tripple doesn’t actually show the scale for the years. How convenient that has been left off. Now assuming each line represents 1 year that means the tripling will happen over a 20 year period. It also shows a doubling in 10 years.

Now thinking back when I brought my house 12 years ago my annual rates were about half what they are now, so to me the table just shows the “normal” state of affairs, but yep it does look bad as a headline.

http://citynews.com.au/2012/labor-blow-ratepayer-body-confirms-rates-will-triple/

The timeframes aren’t legislated. Cheers.

Matt, does this mean that a Liberal government will legislate how rates are fixed, what maximum increases are, and over what time period those increases will be implemented?

If not, how does a Liberal government intend to manage those processes, and how will it differ from the existing processes, considering the increase in rates appears to already be on or near the line forecast?

Is this simply a dog whistling exercise to scare voters?

Bingo.

In the absence of information about how the Libs will control rates and what they’ll be under them, that last thing you said.

JC said :

Matt_Watts said :

The timeframes aren’t legislated. Cheers.

If it isn’t legislated then clearly that makes a mockery of the whole scare campaign.

In response to post #5 and post #6, all I have to say is Andrew Barr told the Legislative Assembly that we should look at the Quinlan Tax Review said; that review said 10 years. I didn’t force him to make that statement to the LA.

My understanding is that there is nothing in the legislation to prevent the shift of the finances collected from stamp duty to be collected via rates at any speed the government wants. Happy to be corrected (this is just what I’ve been told).

I don’t want to be negative, but if the timeframe is over 20 years there has either been a change of heart or the Treasurer potentially misled the LA.

The Average Unimproved Value moves with the market. Rates also have a fixed charge. But we will not be attempting to shift the missing stamp duty revenue over to the rates IN ADDITION to that market increase. There’s not much to say other than “we won’t do that”. I see that as a positive!

Matt_Watts said :

The timeframes aren’t legislated. Cheers.

If it isn’t legislated then clearly that makes a mockery of the whole scare campaign.

Matt_Watts said :

JC said :

It is interesting to note that the table in the link below that shows how rates will tripple doesn’t actually show the scale for the years. How convenient that has been left off. Now assuming each line represents 1 year that means the tripling will happen over a 20 year period. It also shows a doubling in 10 years.

Now thinking back when I brought my house 12 years ago my annual rates were about half what they are now, so to me the table just shows the “normal” state of affairs, but yep it does look bad as a headline.

http://citynews.com.au/2012/labor-blow-ratepayer-body-confirms-rates-will-triple/

The timeframes aren’t legislated. Cheers.

Matt, does this mean that a Liberal government will legislate how rates are fixed, what maximum increases are, and over what time period those increases will be implemented?

If not, how does a Liberal government intend to manage those processes, and how will it differ from the existing processes, considering the increase in rates appears to already be on or near the line forecast?

Is this simply a dog whistling exercise to scare voters?

JC said :

It is interesting to note that the table in the link below that shows how rates will tripple doesn’t actually show the scale for the years. How convenient that has been left off. Now assuming each line represents 1 year that means the tripling will happen over a 20 year period. It also shows a doubling in 10 years.

Now thinking back when I brought my house 12 years ago my annual rates were about half what they are now, so to me the table just shows the “normal” state of affairs, but yep it does look bad as a headline.

http://citynews.com.au/2012/labor-blow-ratepayer-body-confirms-rates-will-triple/

The timeframes aren’t legislated. Cheers.

It is interesting to note that the table in the link below that shows how rates will tripple doesn’t actually show the scale for the years. How convenient that has been left off. Now assuming each line represents 1 year that means the tripling will happen over a 20 year period. It also shows a doubling in 10 years.

Now thinking back when I brought my house 12 years ago my annual rates were about half what they are now, so to me the table just shows the “normal” state of affairs, but yep it does look bad as a headline.

http://citynews.com.au/2012/labor-blow-ratepayer-body-confirms-rates-will-triple/

Rabbitohs_fan2:36 pm 06 Oct 12

Are all the members of the rate payers association Libs or just most of them?

Real handy. I wonder which of Zed’s staffer mates lined this one up.

Daily Digest

Want the best Canberra news delivered daily? Every day we package the most popular Riotact stories and send them straight to your inbox. Sign-up now for trusted local news that will never be behind a paywall.

By submitting your email address you are agreeing to Region Group's terms and conditions and privacy policy.