See Crace Differently

JC said :

Ryoma said :

crackerpants said :

I’d be curious to know how well the community spaces end up being utilised by parents – do they have a lot more patience than me, or is it easier just to retreat to the media rooms which seem to have partially replaced backyards? Which is the broader question I have – do families now genuinely want smaller yards to maintain, or are they simply buying what developers make available and putting on a brave face?

It seems like an interesting social experiment (albeit a way of living that’s been around forever), but as we become more individualistic and indoorsy (where “alfresco entertaining areas” seem increasingly to be just like eating inside with the door open), I wonder if kids are missing out on the pleasure of the great outdoors. Does anyone know if town planners study and evaluate this sort of thing?

I think this is a really important topic. As Maya123 points out, fairly young kids probably don’t need a huge amount of space, but I think the shift to how that space is being laid out and used is critical. If it’s all covered in bricks and concrete, rather than grass, of course it’s easier to maintain and clean, and I can understand the appeal of that.

But the flip side of that is, it also makes it far easier for little ones to get hurt when they fall over….and I wonder if this, in turn, makes the media room that much more appealing to kids? That is to say, are we not only removing any positive “pull” reasons to go outside and play, but actually creating a negative “push” reason as well, because the outdoor space is now set up for adult entertaining, not backyard cricket or badminton? You can add to this, especially for rented housing, the lack of space for a pet.
Also, as noted by crackerpants (and believe me, I’m not judging on this), how many parents have the time and patience to take the kids to parks when it takes two full-time wages to pay off the mortgage?

Now, at this point, I’ll confess I don’t have kids, and I am not offering advice or judgement, I am just raising some questions.

There is the other side of all this. Where are our kids actually free to play by themselves and to develop independence? Everywhere near where I live has broad nature strips full of weeds, and skinny strips of nature reserve, and most of it is mowed regularly, so none of it is what one could truly call “wild”.
How are kids going to build cubby houses and the like if everything has been landscaped to within an inch of its life?

How many of us let our kids play in the park with their friends by themselves, in order that they learn to make new friends, and develop a sense of self beyond what they are told at school? How many of us let our kids ride their bikes?

How many kids would actually choose to do these things given that there is always digital entertainment available, and how many get any free time to do so anyway?

What are the long-term consequences of these trends going to be, and what happened to make us all so fearful? Is it because we now have 24-hour news, that we imagine darkness around every corner? Or are we as adults too busy judging each other on our respective parenting to think about the collective outcome we may be sleepwalking towards?

I found this book both interesting and disturbing, but recommend it regardless. A lot of food for thought.
http://richardlouv.com/books/last-child/

Most of what you wrote is a reflection of society not of land development. Society is what is dictating that we don’t let young kids roam free like we used to, or ride their bikes on the road like we used to.

I suspect the true picture is a little from column A, and a little from column B. I think land development is part of society’s drive towards moving and doing less, and consuming more – not a cause, but an enabler perhaps.

We have plenty of kids riding their bikes in our street (and my own have been known to ride their scooters along in front of our place in their pyjamas) which I won’t deny has given me some worry when driving, but the net result seems to be that drivers are more cautious. I think kids can still have some level of freedom, but perhaps dependent on where they live (traffic) and who lives there (whether there’s a critical mass of other kids, and the attitudes their parents have toward safety).

Ryoma said :

crackerpants said :

I’d be curious to know how well the community spaces end up being utilised by parents – do they have a lot more patience than me, or is it easier just to retreat to the media rooms which seem to have partially replaced backyards? Which is the broader question I have – do families now genuinely want smaller yards to maintain, or are they simply buying what developers make available and putting on a brave face?

It seems like an interesting social experiment (albeit a way of living that’s been around forever), but as we become more individualistic and indoorsy (where “alfresco entertaining areas” seem increasingly to be just like eating inside with the door open), I wonder if kids are missing out on the pleasure of the great outdoors. Does anyone know if town planners study and evaluate this sort of thing?

I think this is a really important topic. As Maya123 points out, fairly young kids probably don’t need a huge amount of space, but I think the shift to how that space is being laid out and used is critical. If it’s all covered in bricks and concrete, rather than grass, of course it’s easier to maintain and clean, and I can understand the appeal of that.

But the flip side of that is, it also makes it far easier for little ones to get hurt when they fall over….and I wonder if this, in turn, makes the media room that much more appealing to kids? That is to say, are we not only removing any positive “pull” reasons to go outside and play, but actually creating a negative “push” reason as well, because the outdoor space is now set up for adult entertaining, not backyard cricket or badminton? You can add to this, especially for rented housing, the lack of space for a pet.
Also, as noted by crackerpants (and believe me, I’m not judging on this), how many parents have the time and patience to take the kids to parks when it takes two full-time wages to pay off the mortgage?

Now, at this point, I’ll confess I don’t have kids, and I am not offering advice or judgement, I am just raising some questions.

There is the other side of all this. Where are our kids actually free to play by themselves and to develop independence? Everywhere near where I live has broad nature strips full of weeds, and skinny strips of nature reserve, and most of it is mowed regularly, so none of it is what one could truly call “wild”.
How are kids going to build cubby houses and the like if everything has been landscaped to within an inch of its life?

How many of us let our kids play in the park with their friends by themselves, in order that they learn to make new friends, and develop a sense of self beyond what they are told at school? How many of us let our kids ride their bikes?

How many kids would actually choose to do these things given that there is always digital entertainment available, and how many get any free time to do so anyway?

What are the long-term consequences of these trends going to be, and what happened to make us all so fearful? Is it because we now have 24-hour news, that we imagine darkness around every corner? Or are we as adults too busy judging each other on our respective parenting to think about the collective outcome we may be sleepwalking towards?

I found this book both interesting and disturbing, but recommend it regardless. A lot of food for thought.
http://richardlouv.com/books/last-child/

Most of what you wrote is a reflection of society not of land development. Society is what is dictating that we don’t let young kids roam free like we used to, or ride their bikes on the road like we used to.

crackerpants said :

I’d be curious to know how well the community spaces end up being utilised by parents – do they have a lot more patience than me, or is it easier just to retreat to the media rooms which seem to have partially replaced backyards? Which is the broader question I have – do families now genuinely want smaller yards to maintain, or are they simply buying what developers make available and putting on a brave face?

It seems like an interesting social experiment (albeit a way of living that’s been around forever), but as we become more individualistic and indoorsy (where “alfresco entertaining areas” seem increasingly to be just like eating inside with the door open), I wonder if kids are missing out on the pleasure of the great outdoors. Does anyone know if town planners study and evaluate this sort of thing?

I think this is a really important topic. As Maya123 points out, fairly young kids probably don’t need a huge amount of space, but I think the shift to how that space is being laid out and used is critical. If it’s all covered in bricks and concrete, rather than grass, of course it’s easier to maintain and clean, and I can understand the appeal of that.

But the flip side of that is, it also makes it far easier for little ones to get hurt when they fall over….and I wonder if this, in turn, makes the media room that much more appealing to kids? That is to say, are we not only removing any positive “pull” reasons to go outside and play, but actually creating a negative “push” reason as well, because the outdoor space is now set up for adult entertaining, not backyard cricket or badminton? You can add to this, especially for rented housing, the lack of space for a pet.
Also, as noted by crackerpants (and believe me, I’m not judging on this), how many parents have the time and patience to take the kids to parks when it takes two full-time wages to pay off the mortgage?

Now, at this point, I’ll confess I don’t have kids, and I am not offering advice or judgement, I am just raising some questions.

There is the other side of all this. Where are our kids actually free to play by themselves and to develop independence? Everywhere near where I live has broad nature strips full of weeds, and skinny strips of nature reserve, and most of it is mowed regularly, so none of it is what one could truly call “wild”.
How are kids going to build cubby houses and the like if everything has been landscaped to within an inch of its life?

How many of us let our kids play in the park with their friends by themselves, in order that they learn to make new friends, and develop a sense of self beyond what they are told at school? How many of us let our kids ride their bikes?

How many kids would actually choose to do these things given that there is always digital entertainment available, and how many get any free time to do so anyway?

What are the long-term consequences of these trends going to be, and what happened to make us all so fearful? Is it because we now have 24-hour news, that we imagine darkness around every corner? Or are we as adults too busy judging each other on our respective parenting to think about the collective outcome we may be sleepwalking towards?

I found this book both interesting and disturbing, but recommend it regardless. A lot of food for thought.
http://richardlouv.com/books/last-child/

Kalliste said :

The biggest issue (and one of the main reasons we didn’t end up buying in Crace) is it’s too hard to get in and out of plus the public transport is pretty cr$p. I wouldn’t want to have to go to either belconnen or gungahlin on the bus to get to the city from there and I feel sorry for the people that have to.

People who live in the northern section of Crace just walk 5-10 minutes to Palmerston to get to the city. Those who live on the southern side near Cocoparra Crescent (and are smart) walk 10 minutes across the Barton Highway and get the 30 from Kaleen or Giralang. In my case I cycle 5 minutes to either to get a direct bus to the city. On days where I’m feeling energetic, I cycle the whole way to the city. It only takes 20-25 minutes

Not ideal but there are ways around the annoyingly placed route 54

rosscoact said :

Maya123 said :

crackerpants said, “Actual quarter acre blocks, not the 700-850 “quarter” acre blocks here in the burbs.”

Where? I live in Narrabundah and most blocks here are about 650 sq.m. There are a few larger, but there are also areas of smaller blocks. I once lived in Downer. That block was smaller than “700-850” too. Yes, some suburbs, such as the upmarket ones of Forrest and similar have very large blocks, but away from those prestige suburbs, how many of the more average blocks are 700-850? I’m interested. Where are there many blocks of that size?

I think the answer to your question is in the paragraph you are quoting “I should qualify that my husband and I both grew up in a succession of small country towns (me in NZ then NSW, husband in SA) so large backyards are all we knew as children. Actual quarter acre blocks, not the 700-850 “quarter” acre blocks here in the burbs.”

Precisely 🙂

Maya123 said :

crackerpants said, “Actual quarter acre blocks, not the 700-850 “quarter” acre blocks here in the burbs.”

Where? I live in Narrabundah and most blocks here are about 650 sq.m. There are a few larger, but there are also areas of smaller blocks. I once lived in Downer. That block was smaller than “700-850” too. Yes, some suburbs, such as the upmarket ones of Forrest and similar have very large blocks, but away from those prestige suburbs, how many of the more average blocks are 700-850? I’m interested. Where are there many blocks of that size?

Gosh you Rioters are nit-picky bunch! I live in Weston Creek, most blocks seem to be between about 650 and 900, up to 1300-1500 in Chapman. I haven’t done any research, it’s just what we found when looking to buy several years ago (in northern Tuggeranong too), and I tend to keep a rough eye on property in Weston/Woden. My friends live on over 900 in Kingston. I agree with you though and that was my point – when people refer to “quarter acre blocks” in Canberra, they’re usually quite a bit less than that (an acre being a shade over 4000m2) – so I grew up in a succession of backyards that were typically larger than those found in cities/suburbs, and I lived on farms as a very young child. So I like my bit of space 🙂

Maya123 said :

crackerpants said, “Actual quarter acre blocks, not the 700-850 “quarter” acre blocks here in the burbs.”

Where? I live in Narrabundah and most blocks here are about 650 sq.m. There are a few larger, but there are also areas of smaller blocks. I once lived in Downer. That block was smaller than “700-850” too. Yes, some suburbs, such as the upmarket ones of Forrest and similar have very large blocks, but away from those prestige suburbs, how many of the more average blocks are 700-850? I’m interested. Where are there many blocks of that size?

I think the answer to your question is in the paragraph you are quoting “I should qualify that my husband and I both grew up in a succession of small country towns (me in NZ then NSW, husband in SA) so large backyards are all we knew as children. Actual quarter acre blocks, not the 700-850 “quarter” acre blocks here in the burbs.”

As a kid I rarely played in my backyard, I had friends down the street and sometimes we played in their yard (but only for the trampoline) but mostly we just played across the road at the school. It was more fun than the backyard and we could walk or ride up to the shops if we wanted. We also used to like riding our bikes, skateboards and rollerskates (and later rollerblades) and our yards didn’t accomodate for that (other than up and down the driveway.

I don’t mind Crace as a suburb. For one, the shops are great, I really wish my suburb had shops at all, let alone ones of the calibre of Crace. I also catch a bus through there sometimes to work and there is plenty of open spaces to walk to and they also have the public area with workout equipment and basketball courts as well as the cute community allotment.

Maybe it isn’t for everyone and maybe the suburb doesn’t work for people with lots of kids (to me 3 is a lot of kids) but not everyone lives that lifestyle now and it obviously works for some people.

The biggest issue (and one of the main reasons we didn’t end up buying in Crace) is it’s too hard to get in and out of plus the public transport is pretty cr$p. I wouldn’t want to have to go to either belconnen or gungahlin on the bus to get to the city from there and I feel sorry for the people that have to.

crackerpants said, “Actual quarter acre blocks, not the 700-850 “quarter” acre blocks here in the burbs.”

Where? I live in Narrabundah and most blocks here are about 650 sq.m. There are a few larger, but there are also areas of smaller blocks. I once lived in Downer. That block was smaller than “700-850” too. Yes, some suburbs, such as the upmarket ones of Forrest and similar have very large blocks, but away from those prestige suburbs, how many of the more average blocks are 700-850? I’m interested. Where are there many blocks of that size?

It’s done wonders for the adjacent Palmerston and it’s 800m sq blocks.

I actually like Crace, at ground level it doesn’t look so bad and the high cost means high wages needed and thus good income for shops, hence decent provisioning.