The curious case of the Chief Minister and the CSIRO development

Kim Huynh said :

JC said :

Of course nothing was built, that’s self evident. The point is that the people of the ACT get money for services from the sale of land. The airport and CSIRO both pocket the money and then complain that the infrastructure is inadequate. Then you and I pick up the tab for building the infrastructure.

The improvements you mentioned will likely go ahead but you can bet your bottom dollar that you will pay but the Commonwealth will not.

This is nonsense. You are simply confused at how the ACT government funds its building of roads (etc) on its own land.
Here’s the difference: CSIRO have this land, not the ACT government. No developer gets to put a subdivision on the market without first paying all the bills for the installation of required services and infrastructure to local and state governments.
The comparison with the Canberra Airport is not valid: Snow’s responsibility to revamp the government-owned airport access roads was an arguable one.

This CSIRO development is an excellent thing which will put our town council’s “development” process to shame and hopefully spur us on to better planning and quality in the future.

On the contrary, you either didn’t read or have chosen to misinterpret my words. Fairly typical forum behaviour but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Again it is axiomatic that developers pay for the roads and infrastructure in the development. That is the definition of development. However, they don’t pay for the indirect costs that the development causes. The duplication of roads, the upgrading of intersections etc.

When the government sells land (capital) all the revenue they receive goes towards capital improvements. No sale, no revenue, just the costs.

Have a nice day

JC said :

Of course nothing was built, that’s self evident. The point is that the people of the ACT get money for services from the sale of land. The airport and CSIRO both pocket the money and then complain that the infrastructure is inadequate. Then you and I pick up the tab for building the infrastructure.

The improvements you mentioned will likely go ahead but you can bet your bottom dollar that you will pay but the Commonwealth will not.

This is nonsense. You are simply confused at how the ACT government funds its building of roads (etc) on its own land.
Here’s the difference: CSIRO have this land, not the ACT government. No developer gets to put a subdivision on the market without first paying all the bills for the installation of required services and infrastructure to local and state governments.
The comparison with the Canberra Airport is not valid: Snow’s responsibility to revamp the government-owned airport access roads was an arguable one.

This CSIRO development is an excellent thing which will put our town council’s “development” process to shame and hopefully spur us on to better planning and quality in the future.

Why does Kim Fisher’s comments sound so much like another version of Shorten’s Medicare lie? Have the ACT Government done such a good job of development that they can possibly hold themselves up as the shining light – let us consider the dodgy deals done for Glebe Park and the Griffith oval as recent examples of the ACT process. Why hasn’t Kim Fisher been vocal about theses issues?

I for one love the idea of some real competition for affordable housing in the ACT. We are currently seeing a growing marketplace for developments on our borders in every direction because the ACT Government insists on maintaining unaffordable prices by controlling the rate of land release. I would like to live in a world where my children and their children have a real potential to buy and pay off the family home.

If we look at the concerns raised about the contribution to surrounding infrastructure lets look at the Canberra Airport development where the airport got sick and tired of waiting for the government to act and in the end did it themselves.

Well done Paul I thought your article was well balanced and based on facts rather than the scare tactics that seem to have completely absorbed modern politics.

Paul Costigan said :

The “surprise” is not that CSIRO plans to develop the site, the “surprise” is that citizens of the ACT will realise they have no say on what any developer chooses to do.

I fixed that for you, just like how you treat the ACT residents with light rail.

The “surprise” is that citizens of the ACT will have no say on what whacky ideas the ACT Labor/greens government chooses to do.

It is totally expected that the usual lot of ACT Politicians – or their candidates – will defend what they consider to be a just planning system. It is obvious that the present political classes in the ACT have not had the experience of challenging ACTPLA’s complicated and obtuse processes.

Even if residents gather in hundreds or thousands to protest and lodge heaps of objections, the ACTPLA will always treat the needs of the developers as a top priority while the residents’ aspirations, health and well being will receive at a maximum, the most token and bureaucratic response.

In the end ACTPLA will challenge residents to take their objections to the appeals processes of ACAT.

Here any residents will face the full force of a legal adversarial attack – involving expensive lawyers employed by both the developers and the ACTPLA. In the ACAT arena residents will find everything about them being challenged – the gloves come off completely! It is a very tough and demanding experience and not recommended to anyone – unless you have the time and money to take a long holiday afterwards to recover.

To our politicians, the ACTPLA processes may sound as though they are just and workable. They are not from a resident’s point of view. There is a big distance between local political class and residents on how development and planning is being carried out here in Canberra.

The present planning and development process produce very little affordable housing, very little green infrastructure, and some very questionable building standards.

If the CSIRO can deliver something truly sustainable and something better than what is current on offer – we look forward to seeing what they can do.

Their processes may be different from realities of the very questionable ACTPLA processes – but that would not be hard as anything could be better than those.

I suggest after years of scientific research on urban developments, urban ecosystems and green infrastructure and climate change in the urban environments – and after frustrating years of not seeing their results picked up by developers and agencies within the ACT Government, that they could be looking forward to doing it themselves.

This exercise will most likely bring out the best or worst in candidates for the coming ACT election.

Let’s see what the candidates have to say about planning and development. Will it be just the usual spin or something original?

I have been writing about the situation with the CSIRO Ginninderra site for a while now:
http://the-riotact.com/time-to-strengthen-act-assembly-governance-over-canberra/157707
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/twenty-five-years-after-selfgovernment-the-feds-are-still-in-control–is-it-time–for-review-20151002-gk0b1l.html

This is _not_ a land sales (LDA) issue or a revenue issue, it is a _planning_ (ACTPLA) issue.
That is why the site needs to change from “National Land” to “Territory Land”.

The “surprise” is not that CSIRO plans to develop the site, the “surprise” is that citizens of the ACT will realise they have no say on what any developer chooses to do.

Has the CSIRO made public its history of experiments on the site? A number of residents have told me that the CSIRO deployed a range of harmful chemicals at various times over the site’s history. This is something that needs to be researched and openly discussed.

As other commenters have pointed out, any developers wouldn’t be required to contribute to upgrades of surrounding roads and infrastructure. This may force the ACT government to set aside funds that ordinarily would have been prioritised for use elsewhere in the ACT.

Any development falling under the jurisdiction of the ACT government has a large number of consultation and accountability provisions, including:

– Pre-development application community consultations
– Lodgement and publication of development applications
– Public notification of development applications
– Asking for comments or objections
– Requests for decision review by ACTPLA
– ACAT appeals process

**None of these processes exist for the CSIRO Ginninderra site**.

Anything a developer chooses to do for “consultation” will be completely voluntary. On National Land, the NCA is judge, jury and executioner when it comes to planning.

devils_advocate said :

Charlotte Harper said :

Perhaps he’s concerned about the fact (as I assume you are given your interest in these things) that the CSIRO will pocket all the cash but make no contribution towards upgrading the road network and major infrastructure.

I can see you’re point but I don’t think that hypocrisy by a politician (heaven forfend, say it isn’t so) is the major issue.

It’s not as if Gungahlin was full of infrastructure even after being built. All that land was sold years ago money has been spent, we are in debt and we are still waiting and paying for major road upgrades in Gungahlin that should of been built in the beginning.

The CSIRO are building a Suburb with no sewerage or power ?

The Land is on a 4 lane major hwy not at the end of Southern Cross Dr where nothing was done ?
To widen Owen Dixon dr wouldn’t take much.
The developers will pay for the infrastructure.
ACT gov gets stamp duty and heap of other taxes.

Of course nothing was built, that’s self evident. The point is that the people of the ACT get money for services from the sale of land. The airport and CSIRO both pocket the money and then complain that the infrastructure is inadequate. Then you and I pick up the tab for building the infrastructure.

The improvements you mentioned will likely go ahead but you can bet your bottom dollar that you will pay but the Commonwealth will not.

It’s handy having the names of all the people who can never again complain about development out at Snowtown in the one place.

So, the Barr ACT Labor/Greens Govt doesn’t want the CSIRO land opened up for development. The Barr ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t wont develop the land in West Tuggeranong across the river.

But at the same time, the Barr ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t can not release enough land to satisfy demand – but still insists that Canberra needs to grow.

Of course, they are so committed to affordable housing !! If that was so, they would embrace the CSIRO plan and work with them to deliver that much needed affordable housing.

But it isn’t about that, is it. Its about strangling off demand so that land and house prices are higher, so Annual Rates will be higher.

I wonder how long it will take for the rusted on supporters of this ACT Labor/Greens Gov’t to open their eyes and see what is being done here……….

Charlotte Harper said :

Perhaps he’s concerned about the fact (as I assume you are given your interest in these things) that the CSIRO will pocket all the cash but make no contribution towards upgrading the road network and major infrastructure.

I can see you’re point but I don’t think that hypocrisy by a politician (heaven forfend, say it isn’t so) is the major issue.

It’s not as if Gungahlin was full of infrastructure even after being built. All that land was sold years ago money has been spent, we are in debt and we are still waiting and paying for major road upgrades in Gungahlin that should of been built in the beginning.

The CSIRO are building a Suburb with no sewerage or power ?

The Land is on a 4 lane major hwy not at the end of Southern Cross Dr where nothing was done ?
To widen Owen Dixon dr wouldn’t take much.
The developers will pay for the infrastructure.
ACT gov gets stamp duty and heap of other taxes.