Water discipline shot to sh*t

does anyone know, when you buy water in a truck (to fill a tank), where do they get that water from?

The water is drawn from the ACTEW mains at various points around Canberra. The trucks have special hydrants with meters attached and must pay ACTEW for the water.

does anyone know, when you buy water in a truck (to fill a tank), where do they get that water from?

You think we have water problems now! Just wait for a dirty bomb to go off in the Capital City of NSW and half of Sydney hits the Hume! Somehow I don’t think they’ll take too kindly being told to have a drink from the lake!

yeah, because your water restrictions are working so well.

like i keep saying the remaining reserves in the snowy dwarf our local storage and that water is available should we choose to pay for it.

but instead we have to re-live the tragedy of the commons over and over and over again.

How hard is it to try to conserve and restrict the amount of water that we use?

It may not be your ideal scenario, but it is the situation we are currently in.
The dams are down to under 40% with no improvement in sight. Rebelliously refusing to cut back on water use is not promoting your cause.
I don’t mind doing something for the common good – i’m sure lots of people don’t.

Asking people to disadvantage, or even just inconvenience themselves for an abstract common good at a future point is more than just a little on the futile side.

It’s just stupid.

Asking people to choose to use small amounts of a low cost commodity when large amounts are available if they are allowed to pay more is even worse.

It’s a power trip for a few public servants, politicians, and the scum of society who like to inform on their neighbours and tell people how to brush their teeth, but it’s not anything close to good policy.

No, I’m not the market, because the Government mandates the price at a trivial $1.30 per thousand litres.

The fact that ActewAGL charges a ridiculously low amount for a kilowatt of polluting electricity doesn’t stop me paying extra for green power instead of wishing the government would install a wind farm in every suburb and put solar panels on my roof.

We all have a choice about how the drought will affect us. Childishly wasting water or flouting the law as a feeble protest won’t change anything except the levels in the dams. Changing the way you think about and use water will. The water that’s “locked up” in the dam because we don’t piss it away today will be there for us to drink later if the drought doesn’t break – or would you rather we ended up like Goulburn, having to keep track of every precious drop?

Be reasonable and a little frugal now, and we won’t have an expensive, life-screwing shortage later – or at least not for a lot longer.

You are probably one of those people who keeps the water running whilst brushing your teeth.

Let’s look at this bit of non-sense.

I clean my teeth for 2.5 minutes, as per dentist’s recommendations. The tap runs at 1.5 litres per minute (I just measured it). So cleaning my teeth with the tap running uses 3.75 litres of water – 7.5 litres per day for morning and night.

Now, supposing Canberra’s 323,000 residents all clean their teeth twice a day (a tenuous assumption at best ;-#) it would use a total of 2.4 megalitres per day or 884 megalitres per year – 1.7% of our 2004-5 consumption.

If we were all very frugal and manage to clean our teeth in just 0.5 litres (two cups) per session, water usage would be 323 kilolitres or 118 megalitres per year – a saving of 766 megalitres. This would reduce our consumption by 1.5% – ‘buying’ us a total of 5.5 days extra water each year.

It should however be noted that this water is not really wasted as it contributes to environmental flows and is used by communities downstream from us. If we didn’t use this water it would stay ‘locked up’ in our dams.

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Ralph is not me.

(Gives Ralph the secret lush green-lawn f&ck the restictions secret handshake)

No, I’m not the market, because the Government mandates the price at a trivial $1.30 per thousand litres.

You also forget we’re unique for a big city in having vast catchments upstream and vast users downstream.

recycling and greywater makes sense in coastal cities where the water saved would otherwise have flowed into the sea.

Here it’s just a byproduct of poor thinking and bad economics.

For every litre you save they have to release half of one from the catchment anyways to make up the environmental flows in the murrumbidgee.

earth to morons, we do not live on the coast.

You check it and you check it again, but you always miss one fucking tag…

And no new infrastructure to address the long term issues…

Maybe they’re too busy thinking of smarter ways to use existing infrastructure. Well, when they’re not actively researching new water sources, working out how to make better use of waste water or how to use water more than once. Which, IMNSFHO, kicks the sorry arse out of anything you have or ever will do about the problem. You should be Treasurer – we just need more mints, and that way we can print more money, and we’ll all be rich.

And JB, that looks like something my 5-year-old niece put together. “If we don’t waste it, somebody else will! It crossed our imaginary line – it’s ours!” This is a national problem – pissing it up against the wall here won’t solve the agro-giant problem. People who save water now are developing habits that will reduce consumption, and thus the need for expensive new infrastructure or unsustainable band-aid solutions. People who don’t have their heads stuck up their arses.

People talk about market forces, and forget that they *are* the market. Wanna pay more for your water? Want new infrastructure? Get off your arses and do it now by forking out for tanks and grey water diversion and subsurface irrigation. See how much you value your water when you’ve trying to recoup a capital investment and when you control supply. That way you can have your English garden fantasy and quit whining that the government teat isn’t full enough to feed us all, all of the time.

If you waste water, you are the fucking problem, not the government and its inability to make rain magically fall from the sky exactly where it’s needed year after year or to pull cheap dams out of their arses.

I don’t agree with the water restrictions but I have complied.

My lawn is green and nice, no not because I abuse the water restrictions but because I divert all my grey water from the washer and hand water the bloody thing whenever I can. I’d be pretty pissed if some jerk sprayed round-up because they were jealous or too lazy to spend the time themselves and then make assumptions about other peoples lawn.

Ralph, while I like your throw-caution-to-the-wind/f*%k-you-all kind of attitude, how long do you think it’ll be before someone dobs you in to ACTEW when they notice that you are surrounded by a green oasis, while everywhere else is dead-brown and bare dirt?

You really think I’m worried about that? $220 is a drop in the bucket…. The utility I derive from my clean car and green lawn are frankly worth far more than $220 to me.

As for you Shabby, you said this:

Agreed – but farmers are not much good at accepting market reality. They are, however, very good and making politicians sit up and beg. Thus my comment.

Isn’t that just resources being allocated to their highest valued use? You agreed with John’s comments on why markets are better than restrictions, yet you berated me for worshipping the ‘dismal science’. Stop contradicting yourself bud.

I’m sure Actew makes Canberra pay more for water than a rice or cotton grower. So we’d easily be able to outbid a farmer.

Maybe the ACT Govt (or ACTEW) could buy a rice/cotton farm downstream and “turn it off” during the drought years.

^^^Pool room.

Oh, and when I say hose I mean garden hose, not my penis.

I have a solution to this problem. Basically I stand naked on my front lawn twice a day with the hose gushing as hard as possible, and use the water that sprays out the edge to brush my teeth. I then gargle and spit onto the ground, and thoroughly clean my toothbrush. During this time, the grass beneath by feet gets a tad damp.

What are they going to do? Tell me to stop brushing my teeth?

Ralph, while I like your throw-caution-to-the-wind/f*%k-you-all kind of attitude, how long do you think it’ll be before someone dobs you in to ACTEW when they notice that you are surrounded by a green oasis, while everywhere else is dead-brown and bare dirt?

“Mr Evil, ever heard of Round-up(tm)?”

I certainly have, and I have a couple of containers sitting waiting for a lawn to kill!

I think Katy (Sex Bomb) Gallaghar said before Christmas that we will go to Stage 4 in February: that means NO watering at all outside Thumper.

Comment by andy — 12 January, 2007 @ 2:42 pm

Oh and I love that comment from Mr Kambah. Do thye even have a uni in Kambah ?
———————————————

No, they don’t. Do you have a point?

“That’s what markets are for, allocating resources. If we’re willing to pay more for the water than someone else then it’s better used here.”

Agreed – but farmers are not much good at accepting market reality. They are, however, very good and making politicians sit up and beg. Thus my comment.

“Domestic water consumption is a better use of water than growing cotton and rice IMHO”

No argument there, I assure you.

I can see the story in the Tele now “Canberra Fatcats Steal Water from Struggling Farmers”, juxtaposed photos of verdant embassy lawns and stunted crops, etc…

That’s what markets are for, allocating resources. If we’re willing to pay more for the water than someone else then it’s better used here.

Domestic water consumption is a better use of water than growing cotton and rice IMHO

Jill, you’re assuming that some of these arguers are adults. Considering the “he started it”, “don’t wanna”, “you can’t make me” and “Stanhope smells” level of some of the arguments posted here, that’s not always the case…

Andy the water restrictions hopefully make the shower ever hour types think about what they are doing……… the noone can do anything about my waste is not really an argument for an adult is it?

We all know that when (if ever) the water situation gets critical, the Government will adress the problem properly and actually do something, as opposed to restricting joe citizen from watering his grass. The way ACTEW and the Goverment carry on you would think this drought has snuck up out of nowhere and hit us by surprise. Heaven forbid we take measures to solve the problem; that would be just wasting money that could be spent on other cool things….

JB – assuming we do outbid the irrigators, do you think they’ll take it lying down? Do you Canberra will get that much sympathy?

I can see the story in the Tele now “Canberra Fatcats Steal Water from Struggling Farmers”, juxtaposed photos of verdant embassy lawns and stunted crops, etc…

I see the NSW government and NSW Federal members looking after their own interests before allowing the MIA to dry up in favour of Canberra.

I reckon being self-sufficient in water is a better idea.

RB – there were wars over those US water pipelines. Las Vegas only has water cos smaller dessert townships lost their rivers to the bigt smoke.

You can water your garden beds in the evening on odds and evens. But not your lawns. but you can water lawns on Saturday nights (even) and Sunday nights (odd).
Cutting out lawn watering was the major difference between stage 2 and stage 3. And cutting out car washing.

I’ll drink bottled water and bathe in Lake Burley Griffin … or go British and not bathe at all and hang out at Stanhope’s house till he gets the message.

Anyway, there’s still heaps of water about (over 30% capacity in the reservoirs). By the time it gets down to near zero it’ll rain again for sure.

Or people could always hire some trucks with water tanks and a vigilente mini-army and raid the Riverina water hogs.

There’s so many solutions. As if our big ally the US would let any Australians die of thirst anyway. Bush could fly over a fleet of engineers to show us how to build dams for example–since Australians seem to have forgotten.

Anyone ever been to the US Southwest? The cities there (Phoenix, Las Vagas, SouthernCal) get only a fraction of Canberra’s rainfall (even in drought we get more) yet look how green and well-watered they look. The US may be a crappy, violent country, but what I wouldn’t give for those oh-so-green lawns and luscious shade trees …

Word, Sammy.

Regardless of the logic of the restrictions, they make people think about their water use. I reckon that’s probably more responsible for the water savings as the actual restrictions themselves. For example, rather than leaving the sprinkler on till water is pouring off down the stormwater drain (as I used to see every day in my youth), people will put as much water as the garden as it will soak up and turn the water off before it starts running off.

Guess how many Canberra businesses have applied for a water exemption and been denied. Hint…you’ll only need one hand.

Then we outbid the irrigators for water out of the snowy scheme and pass the increased price on to the consumers.

I don’t see why i should feel guilty about taking long showers or running my tap while brushing teeth.

It makes no difference what your philosophical view is, or how fucked you think the Government policy is. If we run out of water, we run out of water. What then?

Given how much precious water is wasted on cotton and rice in this country I don’t see why i should feel guilty about taking long showers or running my tap while brushing teeth. I don’t have a garden (live in a flat) but reckon it’s just ridiculous that people should be compelled to say goodbye to their gardens and beloved trees just because successive governments (of all levels) have been too near-sighted to put in place appropriate infrastructure to deal with inevitable droughts. It’s not that hard to build more dams or buy out water-syphoning irrigators. And while I’m in old-man-rant mode: enough already with planting supposedly drought-resistant native street trees! They’re ugly, provide no shade in summer, too much shade in winter, shed bark and other crap all the time, and are the first to topple over should the wind pick up. And, come the drought, they die real fast anyway.

Jill – the restrictions are illogical. I can fill and empty my bath 5 times a day, and have a shower every hour.
Noone can do jack shit about it.

miz – Snowwyville has put signs up advertising that the water they use on the lawns is non-potable bore water.

Oh and I love that comment from Mr Kambah. Do thye even have a uni in Kambah ?

Hey – you posted it JB. I’m just a party to the inevitable hissy-fit.

There’s a lemon now?

I think the lemon is fully squeezed on the subject of water restrictions.

Semantics! Legal or otherwise – they’re still enforceable. You don’t need an economics degree to work that one out. Regardless of their legality – I’m sure you’d scream blue murder if you were fined.

Maybe if you weren’t so beholden to the gods of the dismal science, you’d realise that societies don’t respond to markets and markets alone.

That said – I’d say public awareness and restrictions will get us only so far. Sooner or later we’re going to have to charge more for water. Preferably sooner, IMO

Ralphy boy, I assume you got your economics degree from UC – because you have no fucking clue what you’re on about.

Water restrictions are not legal bud. Go get yourself an economics degree and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.

sorry thumper – only legal to water lawns one day of the weekend at the moment ;(

i think most people are staying within the restrictions. I am and i have managed to keep my lawn half green. the fact that we only met the targets on a rainy weeked implies that the targets are a bit ambitious to me.

Ahh Ralph…still keen to have lawbreakers lined up and shot. Except when it’s you. I guess any rule you break is a stupid one put in place by communists to inconvenience you personally.

How about realising that you live in a society and stop behaving like a child. You talk such rubbish I’d suspect you of trolling if you hadn’t been around so long.

I wonder how much revenue the ACT Government earns from ACTEW goes into investment of new and upgraded water infrastructure. My bet is that it all goes into general revenue to pay for things like Grassby’s statue.

And to appease the jills of waterworld I’ll not drink any tap water tonight but will insist on schooners of beer followed by bourbon or port once I’m full of amber fluid.

I am watering my trees (including some street trees) via sprinkler and dripper on my sprinkler day. I’m with you, Thumper, there should be sufficient infrastructure to support the population. Restrictions can only go so far. I don’t want to live in a box with no shade ‘cos all the trees have carked it, ‘cos the govt said I couldn’t water them (yet the airport is allowed to keep their verges green).

I think it’s better for Canberra to balance careful and efficient water use with the usefulness of trees, ovals etc. So I am ‘slightly’ flouting the rules to keep the govt’s trees alive. If they take away the sprinkler day I will water them anyway.

Water restrictions make fuck all difference.

Idiots will still water more than they need to instead of once/twice a week and householder savings are insignificant but those that adhere think they are contributing.

Charge a nominal amount for a basic usage then ramp it up for anything over. That’ll hit the wasters and business users (include all embassies in it too).

But, like gay kyoto/carbon trading schemes, governments will use the opportunity to tax water use as a another revenue raiser. Especially in the debt ridden stonehopeless ACT.

And isn’t it spooky that the mayor’s return to duty coincides with the outbreak of a fire. Is the Lord Of Fire saying “how ya gunna fuck this one up jono?”

Mr Evil, ever heard of Round-up(tm)?

Thanks Jill, yes I do keep the water running while I brush my teeth love. Also I don’t turn lights off, I better be careful the climate change bogeyman doesn’t get me!

But anyway, your reduced water consumptions means there’s plenty more for us non-compliers. Gee water restrictions are effective! What great policy. Who needs market pricing!

And thanks to your efforts jill the Government can put off rational pricing or infrastructure building.

Meanwhile that water you saved is getting sucked out of the Murrumbidgee to water an american agribusiness’ cotton crop.

Well done!

Ralph you are an idiot! You are probably one of those people who keeps the water running whilst brushing your teeth. The restrictions are to make people like you who don’t care about the community aware of water wastage. Like most people I have lost my lawn and follow the water restrictions to keep my trees and flowers looking good so I can enjoy them.

But big business isn’t the biggest user of water in the ACT.

The biggest user is my new neighbour who waters whenever he likes, and has the greenest lawns in the whole neighbourhood. He will be getting a visit from ACTEW soon!

Well my lawn is looking green and lush. I take no notice of communist water restrictions.

Ze-Man, what a fantastic attitude. Did you have anything to do with recommending government policy on the Kyoto protocol?

Big business is the major user of water in this country and so I don’t see why I should set a timer for the damn shower…