New light rail stop means business in Mitchell

That was one reason.

And the other interesting thing is they factored in the stop by doing half the work required to put it in later.

Correct.

That’s not stopping the absurd extension to Woden, a multi-million dollar project to make public transport slower and less convenient for all southside residents.

It won’t’ be less convenient for southside residents in Deakin and Yarralumla as they will be able to access a service that they currently can’t, i.e. there are no stops there on the R4 but will have stops on light rail. This will ultimately mean they have access to a transport corridor stretching from Tuggeranong all the way to Gungahlin. They definitely don’t have anything like that now.

Astro,
If you want to look at it holistically, the amount of people that will have significantly slower trips outweigh the minority who will be better served by a very large margin.

And that even ignores the fact that there is nothing stopping the government building new bus stops in the areas you mention to provide a similar service.

Now whether this applies in a few decades after the proposed infill development has occurred is another matter. But you might want to consult those Deakin residents how they feel about that also.

You haven’t supplied any evidence that the number of people having significantly slower travel times is more than those better served by a large margin. You would need to examine the travel times and where people are getting on and off the service to back up the claim. Also the projections for the inner south are for an increasing population over the next few years. (You would be aware of those planning projections no doubt). If the R4 included stops to include inner south residents it would also be a slower service.
Also “those Deakin residents” were surveyed (refer to the Deakin residents’ association website) and close to 60% said they would use light rail while only 36% said they wouldn’t. A similar result also occurred when inner south residents were surveyed.

Astro,
The government’s own figures are the evidence.

The Woden to City route is a trunk route with many times the public transport users coming from both Woden, Tuggeranong and the City and beyond from the North. Compared to those from the inner south that may get a slight benefit, it’s not even close as I said.

“Also the projections for the inner south are for an increasing population over the next few years.”

Did you read my comment?

“Now whether this applies in a few decades after the proposed infill development has occurred is another matter”.

The growth isn’t in the “next few years”, it’s much longer although the government hasn’t actually released updated forecasts for a few years now, the next ones are are due soon.

“Also “those Deakin residents” were surveyed (refer to the Deakin residents’ association website) and close to 60% said they would use light rail while only 36% said they wouldn’t”

Once again, did you even read my comment? I mentioned nothing of a survey of whether they would use light rail, the comment was specifically about the massive amounts of infill development that would occur in the area and whether residents would be happy with it.

You were right about the popularity of the route R4 however it’s more complex than what you’re trying to describe. It isn’t just “those from the inner south” who would benefit. There are also people from Tuggeranong or Woden who work in the parliamentary triangle who will benefit from the stops around the triangle. Current R4 doesn’t have this. Government’s own figures have shown the need for light rail along this corridor. Claiming that the population increase won’t happen for a while yet so no need to build important infrastructure for the future is obviously wrong. The whole point of building this type of infrastructure is that, based on the population and growth figures, there will be an increasing need over time. it’s pretty pointless getting to the future and then saying “Whoops, we should’ve built some infrastructure to cope with this.” Thankfully the ACT Government takes a forward-looking approach. The survey regarding light rail and support from local residents illustrates the need for a better service. Increasing infill in these suburbs will occur over time. As your previous comments related mostly to the need for light rail in the inner south the survey of inner south residents’ attitude to light rail is certainly relevant to the discussion; which, in any case, was started by a previous poster discussing the extension to Woden. Not that this is all that relevant to the article but it did need to be corrected.

Astro,
That’s a gross misrepresentation.

“Current R4 doesn’t have this.”

How exactly will those redirects benefit? The light rail won’t go into the Parliamentary triangle. And any light rail stop could equally be a bus stop with the existing services.

“Government’s own figures have shown the need for light rail along this corridor”

Not remotely true, the government’s own figures show the next stage doesn’t even come close to stacking up. I’d love to see you provide a link to these “government figures” justifying light rail here. They don’t exist.

“Claiming that the population increase won’t happen for a while yet so no need to build important infrastructure for the future is obviously wrong.”

And you obviously have no idea how infrastructure gets planned, built and funded. You plan for the future but only build when it’s needed. To do so earlier is simply wasting money.

If the ACT Government actually took a forward looking approach they wouldn’t be building light rail. It’s a political decision, not a justified planning or infrastructure one.

“As your previous comments related mostly to the need for light rail in the inner south the survey of inner south residents’ attitude to light rail is certainly relevant to the discussion”

No, it really isn’t. Their attitude to the massive amount of infill development that is coming their way is what the point was about. And we both know that the inner city NIMBYs are firmly opposed.

Hi Chewy, a few things need clarifying here; I’ll try to be brief as I think this topic has gone ‘off track’ from the original article about a Mitchell stop. Unfortunately some people just get a bit hysterical with any mention about light rail and try to bang on with irrelevancies. Anyway, the benefit for inner south would be having stops at Deakin and Yarralumla which currently don’t exist with R4. That’s a simple fact. LR 2B route on the map shows stops at Kings Ave, Melbourne ave and Sydney Ave as well as existing Albert Hall so clearly that’s additional convenience for people that want access to those areas. Need for light rail has been well established however you don’t believe it has and, of course, you never will. Thing is, whether you think it has or not isn’t relevant. Suggesting that major infrastructure projects don’t need forward planning isn’t realistic and i think you probably know why. Not sure what point you’re trying to make about survey results showing a majority of inner south residents wanting light rail. It wasn’t clear from your post.

I agree this has gone sideways but I still think the Woden extension is an expensive step backwards. All passengers from Molonglo, Weston Ck, Woden and Tuggeranong will need to catch a bus to Woden, wait for a tram to Civic, and then get back on a bus to continue to their destination — two lots of waiting around interchanges inevitably means it will be slower. The tram will only benefit Yarralumla and Deakin residents in the flats along Adelaide Ave, so no change for most existing residents. The proposed tram line is further from most offices in Parkes and Barton than existing buses. A longer walk to a service that requires more waiting around interchanges is a step backwards.

Astro,
I asked for the evidence that Stage 2 of Light Rail was necessary and where the need has been proven from “Government numbers”.

A link please for the justification specifically of this stage, not meaningless platitudes.

“Suggesting that major infrastructure projects don’t need forward planning”

Nowhere did I suggest that and I specifically said they do:

“You plan for the future but only build when it’s needed. To do so earlier is simply wasting money.”

The issue is not planning for light rail, it’s building it before it can be justified from a transport, economic or social perspective.

brian – I think perhaps it may have been better to stop at “I agree this has gone sideways…” i’m not sure about the rest of the content you’ve posted. For example: are you sure that all passengers from Molonglo and Weston Creek will need to catch a bus to Woden and then wait for a connecting light rail to the City? I don’t know whether that is right as bus routes, including Rapids, will still continue after 2B is implemented and it is feasible that these will provide access from Molonglo to the city. Tuggeranong residents will be connected via LR stage 4 so they’ll have a direct link to the city via light rail. Passengers from Woden won’t need to catch a bus to Woden either. (Not sure what you meant there). Also more than just inner south residents (Deakin and Yarralumla) giving directly on Adelaide Ave, will be able to access the light rail. You don’t have to be right on top of a light rail stop to access it so existing Deakin and Yarralulma residents will also have access.

The Xpresso buses used to get people from Tuggeranong suburbs like Kambah and Wanniassa or Calwell and Richardson into Civic in around 30 minutes or so.

Light Rail Stage 2 will probably make the same trip about 55 to 75 minutes depending on where you come from.

It’s gonna be hard to stack up the ROI of stage 2 from a transport and productivity assessment.

Hi Astro2, One of their early pronouncements was that the tram would replace Rapids as they rolled out their hub model. It would be great if they have changed their minds, but then wouldn’t you just replace this whole project with more buses? Anyway, extreme example, Mawson to Belco, currently one bus; brave new world, bus to Woden, wait at interchange, tram to Civic, wait at interchange, bus to Belco. Having to go through interchanges is what makes buses painful and why they introduced Xpresso/Rapids to resolve, trams just re-introduce the problem.

Any side of the intersection is the wrong side with this overpriced and underperforming not-needed vanity project.

Wells station is in the side where it is because it is primarily for the yet to be built park and ride.

Another useless development to waste our money on.