T2 for Barry Drive?

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

How is that bizarre? There is 2kms of completely unused lane for 6 whole minutes every morning until ONE bus comes along and starts driving along it for a few minutes. In that time hundreds of cars have passed.

What is your logic that informs you that other vehicles also making use of this lane wouldn’t be better?

rhino said :

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

That’s the kind of bizarre logic Zed and Coe are counting on on to push through their wacky T2 plan.

thatsnotme said :

rhino said :

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

10km? I think you’re talking about a different bus lane, because the one we’re talking about here is 2km on Barry Drive, and there are no stops until right at the end of the lane opposite the ANU.

Yeah I realise it isn’t 10kms long. But at 80kph in 8 minutes you travel 10kms. Therefore the buses are 10kms apart or 6.67kms if 5 minutes. The point is that even at peak hour when there are hundreds of cars flying past packed together, that bus lane is hardly being used.

Keijidosha said :

rhino said :

I very much agree with this idea. I never saw the point in closing a lane only to leave it empty most of the time and the others chockers and then fine anyone with the common sense to want to use the empty lane.

No lane was closed, the Government built an additional lane for buses which technically freed up space in the other two lanes for more cars.

It was closed to me. I could not access it. I’m all for building lanes, but am against limiting them to 1 vehicle every 10kms.

rhino said :

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

10km? I think you’re talking about a different bus lane, because the one we’re talking about here is 2km on Barry Drive, and there are no stops until right at the end of the lane opposite the ANU.

rhino said :

I very much agree with this idea. I never saw the point in closing a lane only to leave it empty most of the time and the others chockers and then fine anyone with the common sense to want to use the empty lane.

No lane was closed, the Government built an additional lane for buses which technically freed up space in the other two lanes for more cars.

nsn said :

“Busses that aren’t that frequent”

Really?

According to Action, there is a bus in the 300 series doing the intertown run every 5-8 minutes from 7am-7pm Monday-Friday. Just how much more frequent would the Liberals make the intertown busses?

Wow one vehicle every 8 minutes for 50% of the day. So there may be 1 bus for every 10kms of that lane during peak hour. Considering you could fit 2000 cars in that same space if it were bumper to bumper, I hardly think that is optimizing the number of people using the lane.

Obviously it won’t be bumper to bumper for a whole 10km stretch, but it will certainly be hundreds of cars for 1 bus. If all the other cars could flow that much better, I’m sure the bus would be able to drive and pick up people still as per normal.

I very much agree with this idea. I never saw the point in closing a lane only to leave it empty most of the time and the others chockers and then fine anyone with the common sense to want to use the empty lane.

broken quoting, tiliqua NOT me

tiliqua said :

BicycleCanberra said :

…you have to start and stay in that lane for its entire length as it is a solid white line.

Actually that’s not correct. From the Australian Road Rules (http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/ni/db_37271/default.asp):

Moving from one marked lane to another marked lane across a continuous line separating the lanes
A driver on a multi-lane road must not move from one marked lane to another marked lane by crossing a continuous line separating the lanes unless:
…
(c) the driver is permitted to drive in both marked lanes under another provision of the Australian Road Rules or under another law of this jurisdiction; or
(d) either of the marked lanes is a special purpose lane in which the driver is permitted to drive under the Australian Road Rules and the driver is moving to or from the special purpose lane.

Simplifying: you can’t cross an unbroken lane divider
UNLESS
c) you are allowed to straddle two lanes = Heavy vehicle (when needed)
d) its special – bus lane, T2, bike lane, etc and you are allowed to be there
note. you are allowed to enter a bike lane for ??m(more than the broken lines) to turn left/exit

ML-585 said

ML-585 said :

The Lib’s Public Transport strategy is clear: (1) convert all Bus Lanes to T2 (2) convert all T2 lanes to regular traffic lanes (3) ACTION’s patronage decreases due to increased travel times on main routes, so slash funding to ACTION (4) ACTION’s patronage decreases further due to reduced services, so contract-out ACTION to private sector.

The ACT Governments Transport strategy is:

– Build new roads but build at 50% of the size needed, decide to duplicate them at enormous cost and more inconvenience
– Make the ACTION bus network unworkable for anyone who works more than 2 interchanges away from their home (Home in Evatt to Woden Interchange in 65 minutes? I dont think so!)
– Penalise anyone who dares drive a car by making parking expensive then by increasing the cost by at least an additional $1-2 per year.

Need I go on?

The Lib’s Public Transport strategy is clear: (1) convert all Bus Lanes to T2 (2) convert all T2 lanes to regular traffic lanes (3) ACTION’s patronage decreases due to increased travel times on main routes, so slash funding to ACTION (4) ACTION’s patronage decreases further due to reduced services, so contract-out ACTION to private sector.

bryansworld said :

A lot of people in Canberra ignore these unbroken lines. It is really annoying when you obey the law and some doofus gets in the way because they don’t. On Commonwealth Avenue I wait until the line between lanes becomes broken before changing – to find I have to negotiate my way around some smart arse that thinks they are above the law. Small issue, but annoying.

Yep, just another one of our road rules that isn’t subject to enforcement because speeding is all that matters!!!!

tiliqua said :

BicycleCanberra said :

…you have to start and stay in that lane for its entire length as it is a solid white line.

Actually that’s not correct. From the Australian Road Rules (http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/ni/db_37271/default.asp):

Moving from one marked lane to another marked lane across a continuous line separating the lanes
A driver on a multi-lane road must not move from one marked lane to another marked lane by crossing a continuous line separating the lanes unless:
…
(c) the driver is permitted to drive in both marked lanes under another provision of the Australian Road Rules or under another law of this jurisdiction; or
(d) either of the marked lanes is a special purpose lane in which the driver is permitted to drive under the Australian Road Rules and the driver is moving to or from the special purpose lane.

A lot of people in Canberra ignore these unbroken lines. It is really annoying when you obey the law and some doofus gets in the way because they don’t. On Commonwealth Avenue I wait until the line between lanes becomes broken before changing – to find I have to negotiate my way around some smart arse that thinks they are above the law. Small issue, but annoying.

BicycleCanberra said :

The rule in the Road rules is up to regional interpretations.

So then where does it say in the ACT regulations that rule 147 (c) doesn’t apply here?

Re: northbound T2 lane on Adelaide Ave.

It is a solid line right from the start with the exception of a 50 metre section of broken line just past Hopetoun Cct. You can’t enter that lane without crossing a broken line until you get past Hopetoun Cct.

Google Earth will demonstrate this.

Very Busy said :

BicycleCanberra said :

Very Busy said :

Err +1. but anyway, Mr BicycleCanberra, could you please explain to me how I can legally enter the northbound T2 lane on Adelaide Ave?

You need to enter that lane just after the roundabout in Woden at the start of Yarra Glen then exit on Adelaide ave near Parliament House

So what is it? In #3 you imply that the solid white line can’t be crossed and in #19 you say it can. You’ve lost me.

The Transit lane starts just after the roundabout in Woden and finishes on the next to parliament House. So you are not crossing the solid white line.

The rule in the Road rules is up to regional interpretations. When a transit lane is on the left like they are in Sydney you can enter that lane to turn left. This lane is on the right and the line is unbroken for its length.

The bus stop at the end of the Barry Drive bus lane will be fun for spectators.

BicycleCanberra said :

Very Busy said :

Err +1. but anyway, Mr BicycleCanberra, could you please explain to me how I can legally enter the northbound T2 lane on Adelaide Ave?

You need to enter that lane just after the roundabout in Woden at the start of Yarra Glen then exit on Adelaide ave near Parliament House

So what is it? In #3 you imply that the solid white line can’t be crossed and in #19 you say it can. You’ve lost me.

Very Busy said :

Err +1. but anyway, Mr BicycleCanberra, could you please explain to me how I can legally enter the northbound T2 lane on Adelaide Ave?

You need to enter that lane just after the roundabout in Woden at the start of Yarra Glen then exit on Adelaide ave near Parliament House

I really can’t see what this would achieve? That road is only ever busy in the morning peak, and all that turning the bus lane into a T2 would achieve would be to speed some people’s trip before hitting the lights at the ANU, where they will again come to a stand still. Woohoo, so while you’re stopped waiting for the lights and/or to merge after the lights, you’ll get to see the cars you passed pulling up behind you.

Unless the Liberal’s plan includes a way to sort out the shit fight of traffic lights and merging lanes at the end of Barry Drive, then this will achieve absolutely nothing at all.

Why not just set it up as a T2 for a trial and see how it goes. It can always be tightened up if it clogs the lane up or is being abused.

A trial of a T3/T4 would be worthwhile IMO, however the Adelaide Avenue temporary T2 mess shows that the chances of it reverting to a bus lane would be slim to none.

aidan said :

I’d be in favour of them extending the bus lane beyond the lights at ANU. All the third lane does is encourage lane-hopping and then a huge slowdown to merge again.

That is already in the works as part of a wider-scale upgrade of the public transport corridor between Belconnen and Civic:
http://www.transport.act.gov.au/studies_projects/belconnen_city_transitway_study.html
With the exception of the strange stop-start transit lanes on Haydon Drive the plan looks quite good.

astrojax said :

nsn said :

“Busses that aren’t that frequent”

Really?

According to Action, there is a bus in the 300 series doing the intertown run every 5-8 minutes from 7am-7pm Monday-Friday. Just how much more frequent would the Liberals make the intertown busses?

i’d suspect that a seven or eight minute gap between buses would include a shed load of cars, even single occupant vehicles, that would have filled maybe twenty or so more buses. i’d like to see ‘frequent’ mean a bus as often as a taxi, almost… then we’d have accessible and useful public transport that would be used by canberrans and we’d see many many fewer cars on the road.

not that this will ever happen, of course.

Not sure I get your point, but if you’re saying there should be busses more frequently than every 5-8 minutes on this route, I don’t think that is necessary and I don’t think it should be Action’s (or the Government’s) priority.

There are a lot of valid things to complain about with Action busses. In my view, the frequency of intertown busses isn’t one of them.

Please leave that bus lane alone. It has made a big difference in travel time on the bus I take into town. As other posters have also noted, there’s a bottleneck further along that route where some work wouldn’t go astray.

Keijidosha said :

Far as I can tell the only thing a T2 lane would do is futher delay bus services from Belconnen into the City during the morning peak hour, and that doesn’t benefit anybody.

+1

It isn’t long enough to bother with a T2. T4 maybe. Taxis and motorcycles use it at the moment, and a modest increase wouldn’t be a problem, but T2 is too low a bar.

I was at the Barry Drive/Clunies Drive lights the other day, waiting for the pedestrian cross signal when an ambulance came screaming down the bus lane, hit the permanent 3-lane gridlock at Boldrewood St and forced through two lines of stationary traffic on to the other side of the road.

It is a real choke point in the morning. I’d be in favour of them extending the bus lane beyond the lights at ANU. All the third lane does is encourage lane-hopping and then a huge slowdown to merge again.

nsn said :

“Busses that aren’t that frequent”

Really?

According to Action, there is a bus in the 300 series doing the intertown run every 5-8 minutes from 7am-7pm Monday-Friday. Just how much more frequent would the Liberals make the intertown busses?

i’d suspect that a seven or eight minute gap between buses would include a shed load of cars, even single occupant vehicles, that would have filled maybe twenty or so more buses. i’d like to see ‘frequent’ mean a bus as often as a taxi, almost… then we’d have accessible and useful public transport that would be used by canberrans and we’d see many many fewer cars on the road.

not that this will ever happen, of course.

Zed’s idea is bad, but Coe’s supporting comments are worse:

“The lane along Barry Drive is currently only open to buses and taxis, despite Barry Drive carrying up to 27,000 vehicles per day. Closing the third lane to nothing but busses – and busses that aren’t that frequent – is a massive waste and poor planning. Our idea opens Belconnen up just that bit more every day for all those travelling in by car.

Firstly, the bus lane on Barry Drive isn’t a “third lane” that was closed to traffic. It was an additional lane constructed to prevent city-bound buses being wedged in traffic that banks up to the Macarthur Avenue exit. Secondly, if a bus travelling on that lane every 5-8 minutes isn’t considered frequent then I’d like to see the Liberals plans for ACTION services. Finally, Making the bus lane T2 will not improve traffic flow as the bottleneck still exists at the end of Barry Drive where the bus lane becomes a regular lane and then merges back to two lanes at North Oval.

Far as I can tell the only thing a T2 lane would do is futher delay bus services from Belconnen into the City during the morning peak hour, and that doesn’t benefit anybody.

davo101 said :

BicycleCanberra said :

Very Busy said :

Yep, Barry Drive needs an overtaking lane. So many drivers sit on 80kmh along there and just hold up the traffic.

A Transit lane is not an over taking lane, you have to start and stay in that lane for its entire length as it is a solid white line.

Err–I think you need to turn the volume up on your sarcasm detector.

Err +1. but anyway, Mr BicycleCanberra, could you please explain to me how I can legally enter the northbound T2 lane on Adelaide Ave?

BicycleCanberra said :

…you have to start and stay in that lane for its entire length as it is a solid white line.

Actually that’s not correct. From the Australian Road Rules (http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/ni/db_37271/default.asp):

Moving from one marked lane to another marked lane across a continuous line separating the lanes
A driver on a multi-lane road must not move from one marked lane to another marked lane by crossing a continuous line separating the lanes unless:
…
(c) the driver is permitted to drive in both marked lanes under another provision of the Australian Road Rules or under another law of this jurisdiction; or
(d) either of the marked lanes is a special purpose lane in which the driver is permitted to drive under the Australian Road Rules and the driver is moving to or from the special purpose lane.

When is the govt going to start proof-reading press releases and release one without spelling or grammatical errors? Do they employ primary school kids to compose these? They can’t use the Mitchell fire excuse that it was 4am and the staff member was rushed and tired.

BicycleCanberra said :

Very Busy said :

Yep, Barry Drive needs an overtaking lane. So many drivers sit on 80kmh along there and just hold up the traffic.

A Transit lane is not an over taking lane, you have to start and stay in that lane for its entire length as it is a solid white line.

Err–I think you need to turn the volume up on your sarcasm detector.

Has my vote…..

Drive on there every day stuck in traffic with the other half cursing that the bus lane isn’t already a T2!

“Busses that aren’t that frequent”

Really?

According to Action, there is a bus in the 300 series doing the intertown run every 5-8 minutes from 7am-7pm Monday-Friday. Just how much more frequent would the Liberals make the intertown busses?

Very Busy said :

Yep, Barry Drive needs an overtaking lane. So many drivers sit on 80kmh along there and just hold up the traffic.

A Transit lane is not an over taking lane, you have to start and stay in that lane for its entire length as it is a solid white line.

Yep, Barry Drive needs an overtaking lane. So many drivers sit on 80kmh along there and just hold up the traffic.

T2 lane will do little to encourage car pooling, it needs to be at least a T4 lane. A mother with a baby seat can use a T2 lane. A dedicated bus lane for buses can move far more passenger per day the cars with two passengers ever will.

http://youtu.be/UZl1N6bTp_M

What is Alistair Coe’s policy on Public transport he is quick to complain about the waste but how would he run it then Can you imagine?.