Airport asks for light rail connection

Willoring said :

My Goodness. What is it about light rail that makes so many people think it is all good stuff, clean and green and at one with the environment?
Perhaps is it is because idiots (Shane??) think it environmentally sound (except the electricity is probably coal generated – but let’s not go there) – but anyway, it is not a solution to Canberra’s transport needs.
Look, trams work well in high density area. Canberra is not high density. If one were to build a tramway from Gungahlin to Civic, the tram (whilst having a greater capacity than a bus) will be no quicker than a bus. Simple. The tram will also have to stop at every traffic light down Northbourne Ave. Simple.
The same result at much less cost (that is, the quickest trip possible into Civic from Gungahlin) could be achieved by dedicated bus lanes down Northbourne Ave. At significantly – like millions of dollars – less! So why not do that? Even as an interim solution? While we ponder the explosive cost of a tramway that will deliver no advantage over a bus?

Because there is no single question being answered here. Its not just about the environment. It’s also about parking. Comfort. Reliability. Safety. Capacity. And image – light rail is a sign of a mature and developed city. Smoke-belching overcrowded buses remind me of Third World cities.

IP

banco said :

the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually enough people will believe it.
“The Liberal Party are better economic managers.”

banco said :

… they have to keep stringing along the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

In an awkward twist to your preferred narrative, the IMF tell us the economic illiterates are the idiots who vote Liberal:

“The International Monetary Fund study bills itself as the first to examine 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies.”

“It identifies only two periods of Australian “fiscal profligacy” in recent years, both during Mr Howard’s term in office – in 2003 at the start of the mining boom and during his final years in office between 2005 and 2007.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australias-most-wasteful-spending-came-in-howard-era-finds-imf-study-20130110-2cj38.html#ixzz2fqE3sYiw

Fair dinkum, do these people ever give up?

Snow’s having trouble renting out his buildings. He’s even losing tenants. Solution? The government builds him a nice train! To “link” the population with his three employment precincts.

Give up boys, we’re on to you.

Has no-one told Byron that Stanhope is no longer in charge of the money?

Of course you can build a light rail, Byron. And you can pay for it .

And why is it, that people like Shane cannot think big? They will say we cannot afford it (so we build a crappy little tram instead, that will never justify its expenditure??), but what Canberra should build is a fast metro, predominately underground, but also open to save money – like running up the middle of Adelaide Ave – two lines – fast lines – Tuggers, Woden to Civic to Belco. Another Gungahlin Dickson Civic to the Airport (hey, Byron, you can get on board!!). This is real infrastructure for future generations – and, could be done for $6b – the price of two submarines! (…and they don’t even have the sailors to man the current fleet – but, hey, Adelaide needs jobs….)….

My Goodness. What is it about light rail that makes so many people think it is all good stuff, clean and green and at one with the environment?
Perhaps is it is because idiots (Shane??) think it environmentally sound (except the electricity is probably coal generated – but let’s not go there) – but anyway, it is not a solution to Canberra’s transport needs.
Look, trams work well in high density area. Canberra is not high density. If one were to build a tramway from Gungahlin to Civic, the tram (whilst having a greater capacity than a bus) will be no quicker than a bus. Simple. The tram will also have to stop at every traffic light down Northbourne Ave. Simple.
The same result at much less cost (that is, the quickest trip possible into Civic from Gungahlin) could be achieved by dedicated bus lanes down Northbourne Ave. At significantly – like millions of dollars – less! So why not do that? Even as an interim solution? While we ponder the explosive cost of a tramway that will deliver no advantage over a bus?

banco said :

damien haas said :

I wish ACT Light Rail had their budget…

Cant wait to read the proposal in detail (later today).

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail

Hate to break it to you but they aren’t going to build it.

The Government know it’s economic lunacy but they have to keep stringing along the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

Talking of economic iliterates – what’s the financial return onf a $300 million road, and what’s the ongoing annual cost of upkeep of said road?

My point? Why is roads funding not subject to the same level of scrutiny as public transport?

IP

damien haas said :

I wish ACT Light Rail had their budget…

Cant wait to read the proposal in detail (later today).

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail

Hate to break it to you but they aren’t going to build it. The Government know it’s economic lunacy but they have to keep stringing along the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

Heard Byron on the radio this morning, and the interviewer commented on the ACT Government’s inability to get their act together run Action buses to the airport. Byron would not comment directly on this. As I understand it, it is the airport which won’t let Action run a service, so his obfuscation was most interesting. (The interviewer should have cheeked their facts first too, so as not give him this free pass.)

IP

It’s a great outcome. It would certainly work well to link up the main centralised economic centres, such as Fyshwick, Manuka and Russell with the high density apartment complexes. The light rail could in the future be linked with Woden and Tuggeranong. There have also been some proposals put forward for linking places like Erindale, Queanbeyan, Weston Ck, Belconnen in the future with light rail.

Grail said :

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

I like how he’s got the “Future High Speed Rail Line” stoping right at the front door of the Airport.

Why wouldn’t it? Where else do we have the space for the railway and associated station? The corridor for high speed railways in other countries is around 100m, and train stations are a bit larger that a bus stop.

Umm…Monash Drive -> Ainslie Avenue?

[duck and cover]

Incidentally, have the people designing this much-needed infrastructure hired protection to keep an eye out for any shenanigans by the Taxi Drivers’ Union?

fromthecapital said :

Grail said :

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

I like how he’s got the “Future High Speed Rail Line” stoping right at the front door of the Airport.

Why wouldn’t it? Where else do we have the space for the railway and associated station? The corridor for high speed railways in other countries is around 100m, and train stations are a bit larger that a bus stop.

Find space or tunnel underground.

I’ve never caught high speed rail overseas that didn’t drop me off near the city centre..

They even managed to terminate the Chunnel at King’s Cross Station.

The Green line will need one additional stop for Hyatt/Albert Hall and get rid of the Eastwards kink after the bridge..

The stops in Fyshwick won’t be used for the same reason the existing no.80 bus inspires desperate avoidance. In fact I think the Fyshwick route might be far more efficient on a more easterly path heading towards Hindmarsh and then Jerrabomberra Ave.
(I wouldn’t be surprised if the Blue line wasn’t designed with the idea of avoiding the big outlet centre in Fyshwick uppermost in mind.)

Woden is a busy place and needs an Adelaide Ave connection. An eastern route via Hindmarsh would be good if there is a way of dealing with the gradient.

where would the light rail line from Tuggeranong join up?

oh hang on, there are no plans for a line from Tuggeranong – its residents are not a political priority

I’m happy to keep using my gas guzzling V8 Commodore – stuff the environment

It makes sense that if they are to expand the capital metro project that either along via Russell or the Manuka/kingston area is next to get addressed.

Personally, i think any high speed rail link should be to the city and not to the airports. that said i see no reason why there can’t be a high speed rail link station at both. Certainly the train i caught to Frankfurt once stopped at the airport before going into the city. Adds a few minutes at most.

Seriously though rather than opposing the airport the ACT government should be asking for partial/full funding of the link. I know people have a negative view on the snow family, but that they have provided businesses to Canberra we might never have got like costco and masters.

Grail said :

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

I like how he’s got the “Future High Speed Rail Line” stoping right at the front door of the Airport.

Why wouldn’t it? Where else do we have the space for the railway and associated station? The corridor for high speed railways in other countries is around 100m, and train stations are a bit larger that a bus stop.

Find space or tunnel underground.

I’ve never caught high speed rail overseas that didn’t drop me off near the city centre..

FXST01 said :

I’m sure the Mayor of Snowtown will insist that Canberra pay for it.

Why not? We’ve paid for most of his empire.

FXST01 said :

I’m sure the Mayor of Snowtown will insist that Canberra pay for it.

It will be like taking the train to Sydney airport – it costs about $4 to get from the CBD to the last stop before the airport, and about $12 to stay on the train to the next stop (ie. get off at the airport).

I just hope Mr Snow has more idea of what a train is than his ideas on buses – he seems to think a 12m bus can negotiate tight bends without requiring any more space than a 4m car.

Rawhide Kid Part3 said :

I like how he’s got the “Future High Speed Rail Line” stoping right at the front door of the Airport.

Why wouldn’t it? Where else do we have the space for the railway and associated station? The corridor for high speed railways in other countries is around 100m, and train stations are a bit larger that a bus stop.

damien haas said :

Commuters to Russell and BBP would comprise the majority of patronage on a Civic to Airport link.

That would be a good thing. Commuters = ticket sales = revenue = viability.

I like how he’s got the “Future High Speed Rail Line” stoping right at the front door of the Airport.

Commuters to Russell and BBP would comprise the majority of patronage on a Civic to Airport link.

I wish ACT Light Rail had their budget…

Cant wait to read the proposal in detail (later today).

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail

It would make a lot of sense to have the airport connected. I’m not sure about the route they’re proposing, but there definitely needs to be a line running out to the airport.

And yes, JB, you’re right. You do have to wonder what the hell the MLA’s are doing.

Other than needing one or two more stops in Fyshwick, that is actually a pretty good layout. Should also add Queanbeyan in there.

I’m sure the Mayor of Snowtown will insist that Canberra pay for it.