Airport asks for light rail connection

johnboy 24 September 2013 41

The ABC has special news that Canberra Airport’s Stephen Byron is drawing up plans for the ACT Government to build a light rail line to his holdings:

The ACT Government is planning to build light rail from Gungahlin to the city centre along Northbourne Avenue.

But Canberra Airport managing director Stephen Byron says planning should start now on how the line can be extended to loop national attractions in the Parliamentary Triangle and connect to the international terminal.

“Having more of a network would make the Gungahlin to City line more viable,” he said.

“It would link up the major employment zones – the city, the airport, Russel, Parkes – and link them up with where people live.

They’ve made a shiny video (above), and opened up their very own public consultation.

It really makes one wonder why we bother with local government when the airport is doing all this work for us.

From the goodness of their hearts no doubt.

airport light rail plans


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davo101 davo101 9:48 am 26 Sep 13

IrishPete said :

Are you seriously suggesting Majura Parkway, for example, has had the same number and depth of feasibility studies as the light rail project? I think not.

IP

What is the point of making statements that can be disproved by anyone with half a brain in under 15 seconds?

bigred bigred 8:19 pm 25 Sep 13

good ideas. no offer to provide funds (freeloader). it will never be built. toot toot

IrishPete IrishPete 6:38 pm 25 Sep 13

davo101 said :

IrishPete said :

Even buses like Perth’s CAT aren’t a particularly good environment for reading a paper or book, or messing around on your tablet/laptop. Buses never seem to be smooth-running, light rail and heavy rail can be.

Not necessarily, it depends on the quality of the road and how windy the route is. I spent a number of years commuting up and down Pennant Hills Road in an ancient bus* and had no problem reading the SMH. On the other hand I also spent many more years commuting on the train where we were wedged in so tight it was all you could do to hang on.

IrishPete said :

And as I’ve said elsewhere, public transport initiatives get cost-benefit-analysed to death, and roads don’t. So if you want an equal playing field, recommend CBA of roads too.

What a load of rubbish. Almost every capital expenditure is subject to a economic appraisal. I don’t know what the rules are in the ACT but in NSW anything over $1 million must have an economic appraisal and over $10 million they get a full blown assessment.

*Ok the Internet is weird; here is the bus in question.

Are you seriously suggesting Majura Parkway, for example, has had the same number and depth of feasibility studies as the light rail project? I think not.

IP

davo101 davo101 4:32 pm 25 Sep 13

IrishPete said :

Even buses like Perth’s CAT aren’t a particularly good environment for reading a paper or book, or messing around on your tablet/laptop. Buses never seem to be smooth-running, light rail and heavy rail can be.

Not necessarily, it depends on the quality of the road and how windy the route is. I spent a number of years commuting up and down Pennant Hills Road in an ancient bus* and had no problem reading the SMH. On the other hand I also spent many more years commuting on the train where we were wedged in so tight it was all you could do to hang on.

IrishPete said :

And as I’ve said elsewhere, public transport initiatives get cost-benefit-analysed to death, and roads don’t. So if you want an equal playing field, recommend CBA of roads too.

What a load of rubbish. Almost every capital expenditure is subject to a economic appraisal. I don’t know what the rules are in the ACT but in NSW anything over $1 million must have an economic appraisal and over $10 million they get a full blown assessment.

*Ok the Internet is weird; here is the bus in question.

nhand42 nhand42 3:04 pm 25 Sep 13

tim_c said :

There’s a big difference to spending lots of money when revenues are high during an economic boom, compared to spending lots of borrowed money when revenues are down.

There’s also a big difference between “spending lots of money” and “fiscal profligacy”. Try using a dictionary. Might also help to read the URL that CraigT gave you.

IrishPete IrishPete 1:18 pm 25 Sep 13

thebrownstreak69 said :

IrishPete said :

“Are buses and light rail so different in terms of comfort, reliability, safety,”

Yes. They are. Even buses like Perth’s CAT aren’t a particularly good environment for reading a paper or book, or messing around on your tablet/laptop. Buses never seem to be smooth-running, light rail and heavy rail can be.

And as I’ve said elsewhere, public transport initiatives get cost-benefit-analysed to death, and roads don’t. So if you want an equal playing field, recommend CBA of roads too. The comparison is not buses/trams/trains, because buses use the roads for free, and dedicated bus lanes and priority traffic lights aren’t free either.

IP

I once rode a luxury coach from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur, and it was the most comfortable travel I think I have ever done (except for a cruise ship).

Of course we probably won’t be using luxury coaches with big squashy reclining seats to transport the great unwashed from Gungers to Civic…

I once road a Greyhound from New York to Miami, with a non-working toilet (contents slopped out into the passenger area) and non-working heating, which turned out to be because of a lack of coolant so we broke down in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night in sub-zero temperatures. And it was in the days before anyone much had mobile phones to call for help. Sat there for hours freezing because they had put our luggage with our extra clothing on a different bus.

Okay, it was a long time ago, but I am pretty sure the TGV was already up and running in France by then. There are First World transport systems, then there are buses/coaches. There’s a reason why coaches to Sydney are cheaper than the train, even though they’re quicker and more frequent.

The airline that puts me on a bus to the terminal when I’ve just traveled Business Class, is risking my repeat business.

IP

tim_c tim_c 12:14 pm 25 Sep 13

CraigT said :

banco said :

… they have to keep stringing along the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

In an awkward twist to your preferred narrative, the IMF tell us the economic illiterates are the idiots who vote Liberal:

“The International Monetary Fund study bills itself as the first to examine 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies.”

“It identifies only two periods of Australian “fiscal profligacy” in recent years, both during Mr Howard’s term in office – in 2003 at the start of the mining boom and during his final years in office between 2005 and 2007.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australias-most-wasteful-spending-came-in-howard-era-finds-imf-study-20130110-2cj38.html#ixzz2fqE3sYiw

There’s a big difference to spending lots of money when revenues are high during an economic boom, compared to spending lots of borrowed money when revenues are down.

thebrownstreak69 thebrownstreak69 11:43 am 25 Sep 13

IrishPete said :

“Are buses and light rail so different in terms of comfort, reliability, safety,”

Yes. They are. Even buses like Perth’s CAT aren’t a particularly good environment for reading a paper or book, or messing around on your tablet/laptop. Buses never seem to be smooth-running, light rail and heavy rail can be.

And as I’ve said elsewhere, public transport initiatives get cost-benefit-analysed to death, and roads don’t. So if you want an equal playing field, recommend CBA of roads too. The comparison is not buses/trams/trains, because buses use the roads for free, and dedicated bus lanes and priority traffic lights aren’t free either.

IP

I once rode a luxury coach from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur, and it was the most comfortable travel I think I have ever done (except for a cruise ship).

Of course we probably won’t be using luxury coaches with big squashy reclining seats to transport the great unwashed from Gungers to Civic…

IrishPete IrishPete 11:06 am 25 Sep 13

“Are buses and light rail so different in terms of comfort, reliability, safety,”

Yes. They are. Even buses like Perth’s CAT aren’t a particularly good environment for reading a paper or book, or messing around on your tablet/laptop. Buses never seem to be smooth-running, light rail and heavy rail can be.

And as I’ve said elsewhere, public transport initiatives get cost-benefit-analysed to death, and roads don’t. So if you want an equal playing field, recommend CBA of roads too. The comparison is not buses/trams/trains, because buses use the roads for free, and dedicated bus lanes and priority traffic lights aren’t free either.

IP

Postalgeek Postalgeek 9:58 am 25 Sep 13

IrishPete said :

Because there is no single question being answered here. Its not just about the environment. It’s also about parking. Comfort. Reliability. Safety. Capacity. And image – light rail is a sign of a mature and developed city. Smoke-belching overcrowded buses remind me of Third World cities.

IP

I’m all for encouraging cars off the road and improved public transport, but the cost benefit of a tram versus other forms of public transport really needs to be considered. And light rail can’t be re-routed; if it breaks down, well, that’s the end of the service until it’s fixed. A bus can move around an obstacle. Are buses and light rail so different in terms of comfort, reliability, safety, and capacity, especially if the bus has a dedicated, which can be used for several purposes (e.g. emergency vehicles)? There will come a point when the buses will be electric, and the fleet can be mixed and slowly upgraded as we can afford it. As long as the vehicle fits in the lane, we are not restricted in technology or gauge.

I don’t think image is a good enough reason to spend the amount of money being proposed. People of substance will be more impressed by an effective system than a white elephant. Look at the Bogota Bus Rapid Transit system for an idea of how buses can work. You can still have slidey doors and a platform flush with the floor of the bus for disabled people and strollers.

If we’re going to spend that much money on light rail, then we need to seriously think about turning parallel roads into toll roads to help pay for it and encourage people to use it. Then we’ll be just like the big cities that some people desperately want us to be.

IrishPete IrishPete 8:07 am 25 Sep 13

Willoring said :

My Goodness. What is it about light rail that makes so many people think it is all good stuff, clean and green and at one with the environment?
Perhaps is it is because idiots (Shane??) think it environmentally sound (except the electricity is probably coal generated – but let’s not go there) – but anyway, it is not a solution to Canberra’s transport needs.
Look, trams work well in high density area. Canberra is not high density. If one were to build a tramway from Gungahlin to Civic, the tram (whilst having a greater capacity than a bus) will be no quicker than a bus. Simple. The tram will also have to stop at every traffic light down Northbourne Ave. Simple.
The same result at much less cost (that is, the quickest trip possible into Civic from Gungahlin) could be achieved by dedicated bus lanes down Northbourne Ave. At significantly – like millions of dollars – less! So why not do that? Even as an interim solution? While we ponder the explosive cost of a tramway that will deliver no advantage over a bus?

Because there is no single question being answered here. Its not just about the environment. It’s also about parking. Comfort. Reliability. Safety. Capacity. And image – light rail is a sign of a mature and developed city. Smoke-belching overcrowded buses remind me of Third World cities.

IP

Skidbladnir Skidbladnir 8:01 am 25 Sep 13

banco said :

the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually enough people will believe it.
“The Liberal Party are better economic managers.”

CraigT CraigT 5:49 am 25 Sep 13

banco said :

… they have to keep stringing along the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

In an awkward twist to your preferred narrative, the IMF tell us the economic illiterates are the idiots who vote Liberal:

“The International Monetary Fund study bills itself as the first to examine 200 years of government financial records across 55 leading economies.”

“It identifies only two periods of Australian “fiscal profligacy” in recent years, both during Mr Howard’s term in office – in 2003 at the start of the mining boom and during his final years in office between 2005 and 2007.”

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australias-most-wasteful-spending-came-in-howard-era-finds-imf-study-20130110-2cj38.html#ixzz2fqE3sYiw

Innovation Innovation 2:56 am 25 Sep 13

And how would the business model work? Would the airport allow the ACT Government permanent and unfettered access to and from the airport via light rail or would the Government and/or users have to pay exorbitant fees for this privilege? It would be a shame if this transport method was seen by the airport as yet another revenue stream rather than just realising the intangible benefits of increasing airport usage.

EvanJames EvanJames 12:16 am 25 Sep 13

Fair dinkum, do these people ever give up?

Snow’s having trouble renting out his buildings. He’s even losing tenants. Solution? The government builds him a nice train! To “link” the population with his three employment precincts.

Give up boys, we’re on to you.

Masquara Masquara 10:53 pm 24 Sep 13

Has no-one told Byron that Stanhope is no longer in charge of the money?

Masquara Masquara 10:51 pm 24 Sep 13

Of course you can build a light rail, Byron. And you can pay for it .

Willoring Willoring 10:28 pm 24 Sep 13

And why is it, that people like Shane cannot think big? They will say we cannot afford it (so we build a crappy little tram instead, that will never justify its expenditure??), but what Canberra should build is a fast metro, predominately underground, but also open to save money – like running up the middle of Adelaide Ave – two lines – fast lines – Tuggers, Woden to Civic to Belco. Another Gungahlin Dickson Civic to the Airport (hey, Byron, you can get on board!!). This is real infrastructure for future generations – and, could be done for $6b – the price of two submarines! (…and they don’t even have the sailors to man the current fleet – but, hey, Adelaide needs jobs….)….

Willoring Willoring 10:21 pm 24 Sep 13

My Goodness. What is it about light rail that makes so many people think it is all good stuff, clean and green and at one with the environment?
Perhaps is it is because idiots (Shane??) think it environmentally sound (except the electricity is probably coal generated – but let’s not go there) – but anyway, it is not a solution to Canberra’s transport needs.
Look, trams work well in high density area. Canberra is not high density. If one were to build a tramway from Gungahlin to Civic, the tram (whilst having a greater capacity than a bus) will be no quicker than a bus. Simple. The tram will also have to stop at every traffic light down Northbourne Ave. Simple.
The same result at much less cost (that is, the quickest trip possible into Civic from Gungahlin) could be achieved by dedicated bus lanes down Northbourne Ave. At significantly – like millions of dollars – less! So why not do that? Even as an interim solution? While we ponder the explosive cost of a tramway that will deliver no advantage over a bus?

IrishPete IrishPete 10:18 pm 24 Sep 13

banco said :

damien haas said :

I wish ACT Light Rail had their budget…

Cant wait to read the proposal in detail (later today).

Damien Haas
Chair, ACT Light Rail

Hate to break it to you but they aren’t going to build it.

The Government know it’s economic lunacy but they have to keep stringing along the economic illiterates and the Greens voters (admittedly there’s a lot of overlap between those two groups).

Talking of economic iliterates – what’s the financial return onf a $300 million road, and what’s the ongoing annual cost of upkeep of said road?

My point? Why is roads funding not subject to the same level of scrutiny as public transport?

IP

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