Belconnen Way fatality

JC said :

I am not going to call you a racist, BUT clearly you do not realise that there is a small list of countries that can change their foreign licence without starting from L’s. Basically the countries are all the EU member countries (some you need to be over 25), plus the US, Switzerland, Canada, NZ, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan*, South Korea*, Hong Kong SAR* and South Africa*. All the star countries are over 25 only.

So a few first world Asian countries, one African country and most of Europe. Methinks your theory needs a bit of a rework.

Other than that agree with the sentiment though.

Rookie mistake. The *problem* is that the list of countries that Australia has automatic recognition for, also have their own lists of automatic recognition. So, for example, go have a look at the list of countries for which singapore has automatic recognition. Then think about how many expats or temp residents of other countries are living in Singapore. Sinapores population has a LOT of mainland chinese, malay, SE asian expats or temporary students.

Yes, people get their license auto-transferred to a country as an intermediate step to getting it auto-transferred into Australia. Not always due to fear of having to sit a practical test – a lot of it comes down to cost. I can explain how I know this but it’s a pretty boring story.

shirty_bear said :

a) road/driving conditions have deteriorated dramatically
– omnipresent roadworks making no apparent progress
– traffic lights breeding like rabbits, operating almost entirely out of sync
– lots more cars on the roads

Yes, the roadworks are pretty bad. The intersection of Lady Denman and Cotter Road is now surrounded by concrete barriers to make 100% certain you cannot see oncoming cars. Smart.

And of course more cars means more accidents. But you can’t call that a real deterioration. Has the number of accidents per vehicle or per kilometre traveled increased? No. So the road conditions are not worse due to more traffic. In fact, they’re better because they can take more vehicles with proportionally fewer crashes.

shirty_bear said :

b) driver standards falling … maybe even plummeting
– ACT licencing outsourced to paid instructors for “competency-based” evaluations. No need for young drivers to master skills; they can fluke it once and get a tick. Reverse parking is fast becoming a lost art.
– immigrants that have gained licences in countries with standards very different to ours having those licences automatically recognised/transferred. At the risk of being branded racist, Asian and African drivers are WAY over-represented among the ranks of those you observe that clearly have little idea how to pilot their vehicle.

F*** off. Driver standards are not falling and they’re certainly not plummeting. I reckon a brand new P-plater on the road is enormously better trained than any generation previously. Remember there are still people on the road whose driving test was letting the local policeman watch them drive around the block. They have then never had to be retested on or rules ever since.

And I’m flat out branding you a racist. Your personal observations, filled with confirmation bias, do not necessarily tell fact. Give me some real statistics and I’ll take it back, but without stats you’re just being racist. I happen to think middle aged, menopausal women are the worst drivers. But without stats that just makes me an ageist, sexist internet troll.

Tetranitrate said :

Cept they can drive on an international licence.
http://www.rego.act.gov.au/licensing/licenceoverseas.htm

For up to 3 months, if they are resident in the ACT, though that doesn’t count students etc who intend to return home. But still I doubt the number of foreign licence holders out there is all that high.

I can’t believe police are still looking for witnesses, all they have to do is look at this forum. Everyone here seems to know the cause and how to prevent it happening again.
Please drive carefully out there folks, life is dangerous enough without this sort of thing happening.

JC said :

shirty_bear said :

I would say yes, and I would speculate a few reasons,

a] road/driving conditions have deteriorated dramatically
– omnipresent roadworks making no apparent progress
– traffic lights breeding like rabbits, operating almost entirely out of sync
– lots more cars on the roads

All these things add up to the average driver being more frustrated, less relaxed and tolerant. And non-average drivers doing outrageous things.

b] driver standards falling … maybe even plummeting
– ACT licencing outsourced to paid instructors for “competency-based” evaluations. No need for young drivers to master skills; they can fluke it once and get a tick. Reverse parking is fast becoming a lost art.
– immigrants that have gained licences in countries with standards very different to ours having those licences automatically recognised/transferred. At the risk of being branded racist, Asian and African drivers are WAY over-represented among the ranks of those you observe that clearly have little idea how to pilot their vehicle.

I am not going to call you a racist, BUT clearly you do not realise that there is a small list of countries that can change their foreign licence without starting from L’s. Basically the countries are all the EU member countries (some you need to be over 25), plus the US, Switzerland, Canada, NZ, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan*, South Korea*, Hong Kong SAR* and South Africa*. All the star countries are over 25 only.

So a few first world Asian countries, one African country and most of Europe. Methinks your theory needs a bit of a rework.

Other than that agree with the sentiment though.

Cept they can drive on an international licence.
http://www.rego.act.gov.au/licensing/licenceoverseas.htm

Solidarity said :

I have always said that every driver would be better if you were forced to hold a motorbike license for a year before being able to get your car license.
Cycling not so much.

I agree wholeheartedly. I spent 3 years riding motorbikes before I could afford a car. There are dicks on bikes who think they are bulletproof, but most motorcyclists realise that if things turn pear-shaped you’ll be maimed or killed. Also, when I was 24 I was a passenger in car that was collected by a 4 wheel drive with a bull bar, and it took me a year to recover from my injuries. At the time I thought I was rooted, and I felt sad because I thought my family and friends would be really upset when they heard I was dead.

The result of the bike riding and near death experience is that my friends bag me for driving like a little old lady, but I don’t care because I’ve never had a prang. I don’t intend to die on the side of the damned road, like two of of my friends, three of my family members, and like this poor bloke today.

My sympathy to all those involved. It’s tragic.

Masquara said :

Sad that it was only at post 26 that anyone expressed sadness for the death – looks likely to be the driver’s partner who was killed. Condolences to the family.

I made such a comment at post #3, and I wouldn’t have posted on this particular thread without doing so. If you are going to comment on such a thread, perhaps you should consider reading all of the posts before doing so. The discussion in the main has been quite constructive about the intersection, running lights etc etc.

Masquara said :

c_c™ said :

Masquara said :

Sad that it was only at post 26 that anyone expressed sadness for the death – looks likely to be the driver’s partner who was killed. Condolences to the family.

In case you haven’t noticed, it tends to be what is not in contention that isn’t written on forums. I doubt anyone on here doesn’t feel sad for the loss of the person.

No need for that tone.

Don’t imply people don’t give a toss about fatalities on our roads.

c_c™ said :

Masquara said :

Sad that it was only at post 26 that anyone expressed sadness for the death – looks likely to be the driver’s partner who was killed. Condolences to the family.

In case you haven’t noticed, it tends to be what is not in contention that isn’t written on forums. I doubt anyone on here doesn’t feel sad for the loss of the person.

there was an expression of sympathy at the end of comment #3.

while sympathy for victims is important &human of course – even more important is maintaining the rage for change so the same devastating thing doesn’t happen to someone else and their family and friends.

c_c™ said :

Masquara said :

Sad that it was only at post 26 that anyone expressed sadness for the death – looks likely to be the driver’s partner who was killed. Condolences to the family.

In case you haven’t noticed, it tends to be what is not in contention that isn’t written on forums. I doubt anyone on here doesn’t feel sad for the loss of the person.

No need for that tone.

Masquara said :

Sad that it was only at post 26 that anyone expressed sadness for the death – looks likely to be the driver’s partner who was killed. Condolences to the family.

In case you haven’t noticed, it tends to be what is not in contention that isn’t written on forums. I doubt anyone on here doesn’t feel sad for the loss of the person.

Sad that it was only at post 26 that anyone expressed sadness for the death – looks likely to be the driver’s partner who was killed. Condolences to the family.

shirty_bear said :

I would say yes, and I would speculate a few reasons,

a] road/driving conditions have deteriorated dramatically
– omnipresent roadworks making no apparent progress
– traffic lights breeding like rabbits, operating almost entirely out of sync
– lots more cars on the roads

All these things add up to the average driver being more frustrated, less relaxed and tolerant. And non-average drivers doing outrageous things.

b] driver standards falling … maybe even plummeting
– ACT licencing outsourced to paid instructors for “competency-based” evaluations. No need for young drivers to master skills; they can fluke it once and get a tick. Reverse parking is fast becoming a lost art.
– immigrants that have gained licences in countries with standards very different to ours having those licences automatically recognised/transferred. At the risk of being branded racist, Asian and African drivers are WAY over-represented among the ranks of those you observe that clearly have little idea how to pilot their vehicle.

I am not going to call you a racist, BUT clearly you do not realise that there is a small list of countries that can change their foreign licence without starting from L’s. Basically the countries are all the EU member countries (some you need to be over 25), plus the US, Switzerland, Canada, NZ, Japan, Singapore, Taiwan*, South Korea*, Hong Kong SAR* and South Africa*. All the star countries are over 25 only.

So a few first world Asian countries, one African country and most of Europe. Methinks your theory needs a bit of a rework.

Other than that agree with the sentiment though.

not 40 minutes ago, small blue hatchback goes through red on Coulter Drive crossing Belconnen Way, WELL after the light turns red just as cross traffic starts – inattention? Stupidity? who knows. Shame is they may take someone else out of the gene pool with them

I live in Macgregor said :

johnboy said :

The good drivers have all moved over to riding bicycles.

There is a lot to be said for encouraging more car drivers to occassionally take to two wheels to improve their driving habits. Cycling gives you a unique perspective sometimes. IMHO cyclists are usually more considerate and more energy efficient (i.e. logically applying brakes and accelerator when driving to minimise energy waste). Sure there are a few arrogant cyclists (just like there are arrogant motorists) but in my experience the majority respect their own and other people’s safety better than the average car driver, probably because they are much more vulnerable than the average car driver.

I have always said that every driver would be better if you were forced to hold a motorbike license for a year before being able to get your car license.

Cycling not so much.

FarrerGirl said :

stormboy said :

It’s a big intersection but basically safe. It probably carries 10’s of thousands of cars every day.

Everyone seems very quick to assign blame to reckless red light running but sometimes people make simple little mistakes with massive consequenses.

My sympathies to all involved. Condolences to NetSpeed and your family @#16

Well said – as I get older and wiser, I am beginning to realise that we are not always 100% focused when we drive and mistakes do happen to everyone – we are but human. There really are a lot of people I come across who seem to forget this, and make statement’s like “I would never do that” or “I am a much better driver than 99% of the population”. There will always be that small % that are repeat bad driving offenders and should not be on the road, however research from SA has shown that a lot of car accidents are made by drivers making unintentional mistakes – see http://thinkers.sa.gov.au/wegmanflipbook/index.html – I love the statement “we (road engineers) have an ethical obligation to create an environment where people are not punished by death and injury for their mistakes”.

I couldn’t agree more with this. As long as cars are driven by people, and not computers, there will always be the possibility of the driver making a mistake. These mistakes aren’t necessarily a result of bad drivers or bad training. Sometimes it’s just bad luck that a momentary lapse has dire consquences.

Way back, when I was still young and stupid, I had a (very) near miss because I made a mistake. I came as close as I think I’ve ever been to getting perished. It’s amazing how having ones life flash before your eyes can change your perspective on things. It was, however, a better driver because of it.

I’m sure that many other drivers have their own “there but for the grace of God go I” type stories as well, and that they are now better drivers for it.

Alderney said :

…I have to agree though with red light running in Canberra being at epidemic proportions. I think it’s the most dangerous thing one can do whilst behind the wheel of a motor vehicle…

I’d rate inattention a bit higher to be honest, which may well result in red light running.

johnboy said :

The good drivers have all moved over to riding bicycles.

There is a lot to be said for encouraging more car drivers to occassionally take to two wheels to improve their driving habits. Cycling gives you a unique perspective sometimes. IMHO cyclists are usually more considerate and more energy efficient (i.e. logically applying brakes and accelerator when driving to minimise energy waste). Sure there are a few arrogant cyclists (just like there are arrogant motorists) but in my experience the majority respect their own and other people’s safety better than the average car driver, probably because they are much more vulnerable than the average car driver.

shirty_bear said :

SigmaOctantis said :

Which leads me to a general question, does anyone else think that the standard of driving in Canberra has significantly deteriorated over the past few years?

I would say yes, and I would speculate a few reasons,

a] road/driving conditions have deteriorated dramatically
– omnipresent roadworks making no apparent progress
– traffic lights breeding like rabbits, operating almost entirely out of sync
– lots more cars on the roads

All these things add up to the average driver being more frustrated, less relaxed and tolerant. And non-average drivers doing outrageous things.

b] driver standards falling … maybe even plummeting
– ACT licencing outsourced to paid instructors for “competency-based” evaluations. No need for young drivers to master skills; they can fluke it once and get a tick. Reverse parking is fast becoming a lost art.
– immigrants that have gained licences in countries with standards very different to ours having those licences automatically recognised/transferred. At the risk of being branded racist, Asian and African drivers are WAY over-represented among the ranks of those you observe that clearly have little idea how to pilot their vehicle.

tl;dr

Blame it on Gen Y. 😛

SigmaOctantis said :

Which leads me to a general question, does anyone else think that the standard of driving in Canberra has significantly deteriorated over the past few years?

I would say yes, and I would speculate a few reasons,

a] road/driving conditions have deteriorated dramatically
– omnipresent roadworks making no apparent progress
– traffic lights breeding like rabbits, operating almost entirely out of sync
– lots more cars on the roads

All these things add up to the average driver being more frustrated, less relaxed and tolerant. And non-average drivers doing outrageous things.

b] driver standards falling … maybe even plummeting
– ACT licencing outsourced to paid instructors for “competency-based” evaluations. No need for young drivers to master skills; they can fluke it once and get a tick. Reverse parking is fast becoming a lost art.
– immigrants that have gained licences in countries with standards very different to ours having those licences automatically recognised/transferred. At the risk of being branded racist, Asian and African drivers are WAY over-represented among the ranks of those you observe that clearly have little idea how to pilot their vehicle.