Burnouts.

Vicepope, I wasn’t calling you a tool. I was expressing to other readers what my opinion of yourself and The Jas was. Kind of important in a forum, you don’t want to align yourself with the other side of the debate! And Holden Caulfield is right, you haven’t exactly been gracious in your name-calling of others.
Summernats bring in a huge amount of revenue to the Capital. Over the last 5 years in particular, the organisers have had to fork out exorbitant amounts of money for extra security etc. so that huge amounts of police are not needed as badly. It is worth noting that the bad behaviour does not come from Summernats entrants themselves, but from people who go to the event as spectators.
EPIC charges a substantial amount of money for the event to be held at their ground, and I have heard rumours (I could be wrong) that the fee they get for this event subsidises other events held throughout the year.
Adult shops in Fyshwick and Mitchell also benefit substantially from the huge influx of visitors to the Capital. Asides from Floriade, Summernats is one of the only events in Canberra that attracts a large amount of people for a single event.
I recall about 8 years ago there was talk of moving Summernats to Sydney because the ACT Government was concerned about residents opposition to the event. This was seriously considered, however the idea was abandoned because of strong opposition from Canberra businesses.
People who live in areas like Ainslie, Lyneham etc. are understandably opposed to the event, but realistically it is one weekend out of a whole year, it is centrally positioned for out-of-towners and this town has to offer something besides politicians and flowers!

“As with other abuse, calling me a “complete tool” is not really an argument in my world…”

Erm, haven’t you just spent the bulk of this thread labelling anyone who would want to use a burnout pad an idiot.

In regards to the accidents on the Federal Hwy (are you actually from here, or some other non-parallel universe) and Wakefield, you’ve missed my point. You are arguing that a burnout pad will lead to injuries and death. By highlighting Wakefield I am giving you a working example of how a similar venue operates reasonably successfully despite the apparent critical dangers of PL, OHS and any other worries that won’t let you sleep at night. If required, this burnout pad could be done. Your scare campaigns are based on nothing but rhetoric. There are countless examples around the country, such as Wakefield, that prove this fact beyond any reasonable doubt you may try portray.

You don’t like it. Fine.

But don’t complain after you get called a tool when you’ve been labelling anyone in favour of the OP’s idea an idiot.

Honestly, if you’re going to try and claim some sort of pathetic moral high ground, at least have the gumption to be good at it.

Qbn survivor – I can’t comment on who may appear at Summernats, although the whole activity seems to me a colossal waste of time and effort that I will ignore, just as I have every other time. I would be worried if I lived nearby and had my residential amenity destroyed for several days, but all I will see is that there are rather more out of towners on the road. Does it cost any public money, including policing? I ask because it would seem silly for the ACT to pay to have some of its residents affected by noise etc for a dubious benefit to some local businesses. Unless anyone knows otherwise, I’ll assume it pays for everything it needs.

My suggestion was that wakefield Park might be open to burnout activity. If there’s money to be made, it’s something the operators might consider.

As with other abuse, calling me a “complete tool” is not really an argument in my world, although I am pleased you accept my concern about the insurance issue. If it can be obtained, and insurers don’t have to provide it to anyone, it would be very expensive.

Putting insurance together with things like venue hire, environmental rectification, security, fire and ambulance services and vehicle checking, the overall cost would be something that might push potential users back onto the roads.

I feel compelled to comment on some of the stereotypes here. For those that are saying car enthusiasts are by and large bogans, I would suggest you get out to the Summernats this weekend. Sure, there are bogans (as with anywhere really, especially Queanbeyan :-P) but there is also quite a mix of educated, cultured, so called ‘normal’ people who enjoy cars in the same way some enjoy a fine wine. Please stick to the argument at hand without categorising.
FYI, Vicepope, burnouts are not allowed at Wakefield – it is strictly trackwork only. Occasionally they offer drift days, but not burnouts per se.
My two cents? I’d love to see the burnout pad used more frequently, but given the fact the pacehorses aren’t even allowed to race at EPIC anymore due to ‘public disturbances’ I don’t like the chances.
Although Vicepope and the Jas are complete tools, there is one point that is valid – public liability insurance would most likely be next to impossible to secure.

“Holden Caufield? Isn’t he a character from ‘To kill a mockingbird’?”

[literary snob] A character in “The Catcher In The Rye”, actually 😉 [/literary snob]

Holden Caulfield (which I know is not a name for an unsucessful GMH product). I commend you for trying to argue the point, but know only too well what it is like to run a hopeless case. You have done pretty well.

If there is an idiot zone in Goulburn, why don’t our idiots just go there? $200 is somewhat less than my estimate would have been (although it was fairly comprehensive and leads me to wonder what the Goulburn facility has missed out) so it would be good value for them. Comparing the accident rate on the Hume Highway (hundreds of kilometres with tens of thousands of users every day and intersections and some bad bits) with a reacetrack used by relatively few shows something of the depth of your analytical skills.

I seem to recall, in a thread long ago, suggesting that if the dragway was something enthusiasts wanted, they could pay for one somewhere else, say in a country town where they wanted the business. Perhaps Wakefield Park could be the answer there as well.

The mechanical problem from burnouts (as I understand it) is that they deliberately stress brakes and tyres. That’s how one produces the noise, the smells and the smoke. Stressed components often break down. Sometimes they break down while stressed, and sometimes later (eg, when the enthusiast is driving around town). Less likely with cars maintained by experts, more likely with cars maintained by DIY bogans. I’m sure some of the cars will be well-maintained (and never said otherwise), but it takes only one which is not for there to be a major problem.

Speed is not much of an issue directly (unless the enthusiasts for burning rubber also want to speed, which seems likely. And controlling a car at speed, especially one which has some bits broken, is something that some people, but by no means all, can do.

Finally, because I’m getting heartily sick of arguments that amount to “I want to do it so it should be allowed”, I would like to contact anyone who really thinks the opposition, the local media and lawyers would not go after the ACT Government if some dope smashed himself and/or others up. I have a Parliament House I’d like to sell you.

” And it’s a poor start to what I hope will be a Happy New Year for you.

Comment by VicePope — 2 January, 2008 @ 8:27 am “

Yep hasn’t been the best of new years for me having to work straight through Xmas and New Years here in India. At least I don’t have a hangover to worry about. I’ll do my celebrating when I go on break again in about 3 weeks. One bottle of 2002 Grange to compare with a bottle of 2002 RWT and a 2003 Chateau Montrose followed by a 1968 Remy Martin Cognac. Nice one I like to plan these things early.

^^^ Post of the year ^^^ (yeah, OK. I know it’s early).

Now all you need to do is compare the burnouts to terrorism and you’ll have a clean sweep VicePope.

Oh, and to ‘The Jas’: Given your apparent lack of mental depth, I’ll give you a clue: I don’t really want to know where you work or what you do. I was suggesting that maybe, just maybe, some self-reflection was in order for your good self.

The Jas, just wondering if you think my username makes me a bogan? Haha, nice work with that daft call. Then to rabbit on aimlessly about your Italian car! Thanks for the laughs, that’s probably where I’ll leave it in addressing your rather peculiar entries to this thread.

VicePope, don’t look now but just 45 minutes drive away from Canberra one can go to Wakefield Park, pay under $200 and fang around all day to your heart’s content with complete disregard for regular every day road rules. No special training required. No special safety modifications for the car are required (driver must wear a helmet). People do this because they find it fun, entertaining and of value to them. And, furthermore, despite your inevitable claims to the contrary, and in my own experience, most people that take part in such days at Wakefield have this thing called common sense that ensures they drive home safely at the end of the day.

Yes, the environmental argument is fair enough and is difficult to counter in some respects. But the last time I looked Australia was a free and fair society, so unless the activities at Wakefield, and other motorsport venues around the country, are not breaking any laws, and, most importantly, there is a market there for the use of said venues, then why on earth should they not be allowed to exist?

I haven’t got any stats to prove the following, but my bet is more people (sadly) have been injured or killed on the Federal Hwy than have been at Wakefield Park in the 10+(?) years of its operation.

Newsflash, driving a car carries a degree of danger whether you’re nipping down to the shops for a litre of milk, taking the family on an interstate holiday or, God forbid, doing a burnout.

However, the degree of danger in which you predict destruction and injury at a burnout venue is such a gross overreaction that it is no wonder noone has really taken you to task for it.

If we take the fact that a venue like Wakefield Park can legally and with an acceptable degree of safety provide a venue in which John Citizen motorists can take their speed off the streets as a comparison, and ignore the fact that you will no doubt reply you would like that banned as well, let’s make a list of why a burnout venue might be okay.

1. First thing you’d need your marketing/safety/governments to establish is whether enough interest exists to make the idea viable.
2. Let’s assume the answer to point 1 is “Yes”, then if a venue like Wakefield is able to operate within relative safety, how would a burnout venue offer any greater risk of injury or death? The speeds are greatly reduced in comparison. Presumably, unlike Wakefield, only one car would be allowed on a burnout pad at a time, thereby making the possibility of a two vehicle accident redundant.
3. Now, let’s address component failure of the vehicles at hand. You’re right to make the comment that some cars may be unroadworthy. However, in return, I would suggest that the majority of true car enthusiasts that would be interested in such activities as proposed in this thread would maintain their cars to a level that would more than satisfy any regulators that may need to be satisfied. I make that one sweeping statement each. Sound fair. Moreover, if a person capable of making such a judgement is willing to use their car in such a manner then, as noted, in a free and fair society why should this freedom of expression be denied? Despite the absurd comments already made in this thread, nobody is asking to make rape, peadophilia or any other morally repugnant activity legal. A burnout pad would exist for the sole purpose of a few punters having a good day out. No more, no less. Much as you may struggle to accept that point, that’s what it is about. Having fun. It may seem daft and pointless to you, but unless I’ve been mistaken, Australians do not need to have their activities approved by you before they can go out and have some fun.

Personally, *better sit down for this VP* I’d much prefer that Canberra, or somewhere nearby, had a decent dragstrip. Apart from the bragging rights earned or embarrassment caused with your mates (depending on your times) it is also a very useful tool in measuring any *take a bex before reading this next bit VP* modifications that one has made to improve the performance of their cars.

To label any potential burnout venue as being politically an “unexploded bomb” says much more about your disdain and biased against the activity rather than supporting the clear and rational arguments you think you are making.

Oh, and by the way, that sky you got for Christmas, it’s about to fall on your head.

Have a nice day. 🙂

Shauno – thanks for that. Most analysis I have read says that Europe is somewhat overregulated (local/national/Euro requirements on most things). But perhaps they don’t regulate the things you see as affecting or interesting you.

My concern has been that any burnout facility be subject to the same financial and policy analysis as would any other significant process. If it passes, so be it – my guesstimations suggest it would fail the economic test and that it has unexploded bomb written all over it politically. Sometimes laws exist for sensible community purposes, even if they get in the way of what we as individuals would like to do.

Calling me a “troll” doesn’t actually address any arguments I have made. And it’s a poor start to what I hope will be a Happy New Year for you.

The thing is I cant be bothered any more to respond to vicepopes comments who I believe is just a troll anyway. But his point of view is a good example of whats wrong with this country. There are to many people that want to control and order our society. The whole country is bogged down with rules and regulations and way over governed. When you spend a lot of time overseas as I do especially in European Countries you can really notice it when you come back to Australia and its really sad and pisses a lot of people off.

Found a linkie thingy to a thingy about burnouts being run and the success on young people although maybe not so much financially. Could answer a few questions for some.
I have no idea how to do links so cut and paste.
http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/hansard/hans35.nsf/451a59fb51257dd248256c85002bc738/9f89b774323d7451c825733f00257e9b?OpenDocument

Fair enough, I can only guess my assumption that you are highly judgmental of others is on the money. Don’t let any of the common folk get in your way on the way to your golf game…

I guess I am avoiding them, mainly because it’s none of your business what I do for a living and with the amount of anger you seem to have against me, I don’t want you rocking up to reception at my work with a score to settle.

I’m not going to answer the other questions either, because I don’t have to and you seem to have already made up the answer in your mind anyway.

I’m off to indulge in my other yuppie materialistic pastime, golf. It’s way too nice outside to be this angry.

Who said anything about bragging about what I do for a living?

Um…you did?

Try working your ass off, having a good job and bragging about that instead.

Oh, and your complete avoidance of the other questions I asked you is noted, you weak willed coward.

“…Anyway, what the hell do you do that makes you consider yourself so much better than the ‘bogans’ you love to deride?

Do you often judge others by what they do for a living? Or what sort of car they drive? The house they live in?”

*given – sorry guys post NYE hangover – Bogans do that.

Given that RA is not a spelling bee i am sure the regulars will let it slip.

Oh and I drive an EB falcon that was goven to me – how bogan is that. I sometimes listen to cold chisel as well and wear wife beaters and drink beer…

Anyone can be a weekend bogan….

Shauno. Personally, banning all motor sports would not worry me in the slightest. They constitute a noisy, polluting and useless waste of resources that makes Australia look less than serious when trying to argue for environmental sense or as a country consisting of loudmouth hoons. While I reject the snobbery that seems to underlie some of the The Jas’ postings, I think he/she was spot on in the post that characterised most car-obsessed people as pathetic.

But, to respond to your question. Bathurst and all the other racetracks are (a) used by drivers who have a clue, unlike real and would-be teenagers who (b) drive cars that are demonstrably fit for what they’re doing, because they are continually monitored and serviced by experts, unlike the kind of cars most wannabes drive. And (c), the environment is as safe as possible – helmets, rollcages, elaborate seatbelts, fire retardants, onsite fire services and ambulances. And I doubt that that level of safety can be achieved at any price able to be paid by the wannabes.

No-one has really answered the questions raised by this proposal, which makes me think that there may not be answers.

Oh, my parents used to own a VN Caalais when I was younger, and that was an unreliable peice of shit!

My name is Danman and I ride a recumbent.

Insert assumptions here

PS fighting on a forum is like winnign gold at the paralympics – at the end of teh day you are still a retard…

Go the (burnout laying) recumbent bike riding cage fighting bogans.

dont like it – tell someone who cares.

The negative assumed opinions of strangers on a forum means naught to me

Who said anything about bragging about what I do for a living? No one here knows and I’m not about to start. Do I have a god job? It’s alright I guess, there are plenty of pub servants who earn more though. Is my car expensive? Not really, it was cheaper than a new commodore, although it is much smaller and I have a cool boss who let me salary sacrifice it which saves me a nice chunk of tax.

What ever material posessions I have, I’ve worked extremely hard for, I don’t have a degree, I just work my ass off. I also like expensive clothes, but to justify that, I work casually on the weekends at my favourite store so I get them cheap while making extra money to save for an apartment later this year.

Anyway, this is totally off topic, whatever sort of materialistic yuppie I am (and I’m the first to admit it) or car I drive or money I make, I still don’t want anyone doing burnouts in Hume and I’m sure there are plenty of others that work there that would agree also.

Peace

“And some people want these sort of things banned lol we do live in strange times.”

Some people are sooks.

“OK, Special Ed, or whatever.

My point was that the behaviour (burnouts) is apparently unlawful, as are all the other crimes. To say that if people let those who wish to shred their tyres and challenge their brakes do an unlawful thing somewhere else then they might not do it on public roads is, frankly, infantile. There are reasons some stuff is unlawful – it’s a pain to others, it’s dangerous and it has no redeeming value.”

Oh dear oh dear. So lets the take this a little further shale we. Ban all motor sports in Australia because it involves speeding. Doing 300km/hr down conrod straight is bad because its unlawful to do 300km/hr down the Hume. lol

Some people in Canberra regularly take part in club rally events in the Brindies during the year which involves 180km/hr speeds on dirt roads. Better ban that We cant have people doing that in the forst there might be chaos on the streets.

So to conduct a controlled burn out event which is by and large one of the safest motor sport events there is. Because the vehicles are traveling very slowly or indeed are at rest. And some people want these sort of things banned lol we do live in strange times.

Ahhh, good to see I’m causing trouble again. The idea of using ‘VYBerlinaV8’ was simply that I used the same handle on another (car related) forum, and I figured it stick with it for simplicity. Seeing others here adopt the idea gave me a bit of a giggle.

It’s worth noting that many people (myself included) drive V8’s because they fulfill a number of functional requirements for a car, including towing, reasonable performance, driveline life cheap servicing and maintenance (especially compared with Euro models) and, believe it of not, reasonable fuel comsumption when doing these things, especially long trips.

I bought mine new (because I could), and have no plans to get rid of it any time soon. When I do I’ll choose something else that suits my needs at the time – I have no particular loyalty to Holden. I also don’t really care about resale values, as I tend to buy cars new and then keep them until they’re ready to toss away for a couple of grand.

And again, the point went wooshing straight over your head ‘The Jas’. Anyway, it started some time ago with the user ‘VYBerlinaV8_now_with_added_grunt’ and ended up with about half a dozen here adding whatever it was they drove (regardless of whether or not it was a shitbox) to the end of their username. Bit of a larf, really, that’s all. I haven’t changed it back because I couldn’t be bothered (and I find navigating the admin side of the WordPress interface fairly unintuitive).

I have NOTHING to brag about, mainly as I don’t feel the need. Why the hell would I brag about owning a car that has notoriously poor build quality? I’ll be the first to admit everything Australian built in the 1980’s was absolutely appalling – and my car is certainly no exception 🙂 The Kingswood I paid $500 for a decade ago had better interior fit and finish than my ‘old faithful’ VN.

Anyway, the dig at Italian autos was a throwaway line – I used to tinker with Valiants, so perhaps I shouldn’t have thrown the stone from my glass house 😀

Get it? I have NO brand loyalty – I bought my car not because I have a particular ‘like’ of Commodores – I bought it because it was CHEAP, and in reasonable nick. Most 6 cylinder family hacks put out more power than mine these days, but hey, it serves it’s purpose, is a great tow vehicle, and best of all…I own it outright and don’t have to fork over $150 per fortnight to a credit company for the privilege. My next car could be anything…Toyota, Ford, Holden, Nissan…but I’m hoping to wring another 100,000km out of the old beast before it falls apart completely (which it almost certainly will).

Oh, and I also live in a tiny flat, have an ancient TV set and an equally ancient computer. I choose to judge people on character rather than on their possessions. Quite a novel idea, huh?

Anyway, what the hell do you do that makes you consider yourself so much better than the ‘bogans’ you love to deride?

Do you often judge others by what they do for a living? Or what sort of car they drive? The house they live in?

Do you find people look bored and uninterested at the conversation you try and create bragging about your ‘good job’ and your (I’m assuming) fairly expensive car?

Hmmm…I know the life I’d rather live.

OK, Special Ed, or whatever.

My point was that the behaviour (burnouts) is apparently unlawful, as are all the other crimes. To say that if people let those who wish to shred their tyres and challenge their brakes do an unlawful thing somewhere else then they might not do it on public roads is, frankly, infantile. There are reasons some stuff is unlawful – it’s a pain to others, it’s dangerous and it has no redeeming value.

Vicepope on his soapbox again trying to compare burnouts with robbery, rape or other serious offences. That’s not what I ‘d call returning to the subject it’s just you spouting crapola.

The subject is about regulating something which some people find enjoyable. You’d be better off comparing racing – legal on a track – illegal on the street yet popular to some. Fighting – legal in competition, illegal on the street. rape – illegal anywhere. robbery – illegal anywhere.

It comes back to this – you don’t like, fine, don’t get involved, don’t whinge and bitch about other peoples hobbies.

For the record I don’t give a rats arse about burnouts and my bike would do the 1/4 mile quicker than any of your cars.

To return to the subject (and I’d comment that there are probably, proportionaly, as many morons driving 4WDs and Euro imports, as there are driving the favoured conveyances of the booner set).

If this proposal gets up, I’d write to Stanhope:
“Dear Jon: I understand that your government is allowing people to do burnouts on some ACT leasehold property, following requests from a number of enthusiasts.

Some mates of mine and I are really fond of bank robbery. Trouble is, it’s illegal and it tends to offend. But, hey, so are burnouts. So, we were wondering if you could let us do some sort-of bank robberies in some disused buildings somewhere. No-one would get hurt, except possibly us, and anyone who got in the way. We already have our own guns, masks and bags with the word “Swag” written on them; we think most of the guns are safe and some of us know how to use them. So, we’re pretty much the same as the burnout people, really”.

I wonder what answer I’d get. Would it be the same if the offence was, say, rape, mugging or child abuse? Here endeth, etc

I’d love to hear the history behind it? And by the way, having your user id as the car you own (if you still own it) is a type of bragging that you are proud to own that type of car, so try not to pretend that you are not bragging about it please. Oh, my parents used to own a VN Caalais when I was younger, and that was an unreliable peice of shit! Italian cars used to be unreliable (fiats, alfas and lancias in the 70’s) but that was also 30 years ago, I havent had a single problem with mine, and I doubt the first thing most people that see a lamborghini or maserati think is, geez, they really arent reliable are they? No, they are too busy staring and drooling at them. I realise that Fiats aren’t in the same league, but seen as though we are generalising about italian cars, “when in rome” as they say!

If you like commodores, then good on you as well, I just don’t see the point of driving something that loses half it’s value when you take it out of the dealer, something that half the population already drives and something that is so spectacularly mediocre like a commodore, or ford or any common aussie car etc.

Sorry for my assumptions, as I’ve only been here a minute, but you know what they say, first impressions and all that……..

I’m a bogan because of my userid on a blog?

FFS…

There’s actually a little bit of history behind that, which you’d be aware of if you’d been here for more than a few minutes…

What about ‘to each their own’? THAT is the point some of us are trying to make. Personally I think (along with many others) Italian cars are amongst the most unreliable pieces of shit on the planet, but if YOU like them, then more power to you.

And who needs to brag about anything, let alone having a ‘good job’?

Seems there’s plenty of you who assume far too much about other contributors here. Those on the site that have met me in person can confirm I certainly don’t fit into the ‘bogan’ category.

I work in hume, so I don’t want to be driving over some bogans blown tyre on the main street when I im going to work every morning. Anyone who’s handle includes the words V8 or any model of commodore are included in my definition of bogan by the way.

When I was 18, I went to check the nats out, couldn’t see the point myself. A bunch of guys with mullets screaming at half naked promo models to get their racks out who wouldn’t even talk to them had they not paid admission to get in. Thinking that it’s still cool at 30 years of age to “cruise” in cars to pick up girls is just sad, but most of these guys still think it works. I have nothing against cars, in fact I have a thing for italian motors (I drive a 06 Fiat punto) but to rely on them for your whole existence is beyond pathetic. Try working your ass off, having a good job and bragging about that instead.

What does this have to do with the burnouts you ask, well it’s these sort of outdated tight black jeaned flanny wearing booners that will want to be frequenting your proposed burnouts, along with the sick ass drifters that drive Nissan silvias and have watched the fast and the furious way too many times to be a sane person. Get real fellas! peace out

I’m interested that, after some days away, this one is still producing the odd bubble. And I’m pleased that Tom-Tom has taken up the cudgels on behalf of reason in my absence. He may need a proofreader, but his brain seems to be working.

Would the advocates be prepared to provide, at their expense, a real costing (including insurance, vehicle testing, security, site rent) so that at least that argument can be addressed. That way someone could work out whether it’s worth doing on the money side (my back of the envelope workings suggest it probably isn’t unless the dills who want to do this have even more loose money than I thought).

Then a considered decision can be made about whether the ACT Government (who are politically accountable and who spend our money) should approve this. Once again, the arguments seem stronger against than for (pleasing a couple of hundred flannie wearing bogans against affecting residential amenity, producing some level of environmental damage, encouraging aggression in driving and creating a risk of injury when, inevitably, at the venue or later, something fails because it’s been overstressed).

You have a problem and someone supplies a possible solution to which you reject. Now the problem is no longer the situation, but the bleeding heart soft head (thanks bonfire !! 😛 ) bleeting about the problem and how the solution does not suit them.
One two three four five, six seven eight nine ten, eleven twe-ee-ee-ee-ellve (sesame street)

I can count higher – ner 🙂

i think i got the jist of your argument though, you want it really really badly and are prepared to ignore logic and reason to get it.

No. You quite clearly didn’t ‘get it’ at all if that’s what you think. Seems you’re quite prepared to put words/opinions into my mouth though – AND get a serious bee in your bonnet about the whole issue.

As I said originally, I couldn’t care less, even if it does eventuate it won’t be something I make use of, nor likely something I’ll be a spectator to. Is there some way I can make it clearer for you?

Finally – you *are* aware that the specific burnout pad I’m talking about will be in near constant use for three days next week, right? 🙂

(21 years and no lawsuits…)

firstly the govt. should not get involved (by letting te organistation involved lease the burnout pad)because this exposes them to a risk of getting sued/blamed if something were to go wrong.

secondly tyre retailers gearbox people and the rest would see a much smaller increase in business than you would think, and any profits from that increase would be eaten away when, as simple economics would dictate more players moved into those markets. buisness would not, repeat not, be better off.

thirdly what police do about burnouts is of no relevance to the discussion, an area to do them in legally, wont stop hoons from doing them in suburban streets (joe canberra won’t pay to do what he can do for free). The organisers of this event are trying to make money, not stop crime, don’t imply otherwise.

fourthly; “it seems to work in sydney” well sydney is in a different state with different laws and regulations, just because it works there doesn’t mean it will work here. And sydney has a population of roughly 10 times that of canberra, now say for arguments sake the average canberran is twice as likely to to attend a burnout event; thats still 1/5 of the market. raises some pretty serious questions about the viabillity of such a proposal doesn’t it?

fithly; an admission fee to cover insurance etc, i’d think that the insurance premium would be high enough to make the admission fee prohibitivly expensive. and again; why would joe canberra pay to do what he can do for free?

sixthly; original article doesn’t mention govt. funding, well you want to use govt. property, thats a form of funding right? and how long do you think it’ll be before we see a canberra times article with i8v84t begging the govt. to get behind this great local event that ‘brings millions to the local economy’? i give it a year tops.

oh and the throw away line about pedophillia was ment to show the ridiculous nature of jemmy’s argument, might have been a bit too subtle for you.

i have no problem with the idea, i think its a good one, just not viable without govt. help and i dont think its govt’s role to help i8v84t make some money.

i think i got the jist of your argument though, you want it really really badly and are prepared to ignore logic and reason to get it.

Let a group lease the burnout pad at EPIC, that sits idle for 362 days a year.

Group charges an admission fee (covers insurance) and makes it a ‘competition’. Sponsors provide the prizes.

Tyre retailers, gearbox, diff and engine specialists in the region benefit from an increase in business.

Start impounding cars of drivers that continue this behaviour on the street (some police presence on the streets might help).

Seems to work in Sydney.

You’ll notice the original article doesn’t make any mention of the Government funding this activity.

There’s my response. I still stand by my remarks that VicePope is narrow-minded. Just because he doesn’t find the value in something means there isn’t any? I don’t find much value in flower festivals either.

Oh, and your ridiculous argument trying to compare burnouts to pedophilia wasn’t worth responding to, but I’ll suggest you were probably already well aware of that.

one typo and i’m down to your level, come on. By the way can i assume from your lack of a response to the issues i (and vice pope) raised that you don’t have one?

I’m not all that keen on religion myself. Could the good people that know what’s best for us please ban it?

Ban air – because I fart and it may be offensive to some.

If Vicepope doesn’t agree with your thing then it should be banned guys.

Who souldn’t? Do you mean wouldn’t or shouldn’t? Moron.

my thing is the thing and when the thing happens you can do the thing.

Transexual nazi eskimos are my thing.

el ……VNBerlinaV8: might help if you bother to do a bit of research first, otherwise you look like an idiot. who owns the burnout pad at epic? the govt. the same govt. who souldn’t let it be used for the reasons i already gave. idiot.

tom tom – if you read my post closely – it states that cage fighting and crochet may be my thing. Burnouts are not my thing… but still I have the open mindedness and street out the front of my house to prove that they are popular. My argument endeth here

On the contrary tom-tom – I (unlike your new friend Mr VicePope) couldn’t give a shit if people want to do burnouts or not. I won’t be doing them myself, but I can see the sense in providing an area for them to be done OFF the public streets in a suitable venue.

Like, I dunno….the burnout pad that already exists and only gets used for 3 days a year at exhibition park?

bunch of idiots:
danman; just because burnouts are ‘your thing’ doesn’t make them popular any more than them not being vice pope’s ‘thing’ makes them unpopular, in fact i’d think if you polled most of canberra you’d find most people either couldn’t care less or where against them.
jemmy- Vicepope said: “It’s just that there has been no real reason offered for doing this.”

And there shouldn’t have to be one except that someone wants to do it. by that logic i suppose pedophillia should be legalised as some people want to do it. idiot.
el ……VNBerlinaV8 : just because he doesn’t agree with you doesn’t make him close minded, in fact looking at your posts it would be hard not to conclude that your even more close minded on this subject than anyone else.

back to the issue i’d have no problem with such a plan if it could address some key issues;
firstly; location; it would have to be on private property, there is no way known a sensible govt. would allow such a potentially dangerous activity to occur on its land for fear of getting sued where an accident to take place, the location would have to be in an area where noise was not an issue for surrounding residents. The location issue should not be too hard to solve, i can think of plenty of sites around hume or mitchell that would fit the bill.
secondly vice pope is right about the insurance issue; such an event would necessarily have to be extensilvely covered and i can’t imagine any insurance company providing this at a cost that would not make it prohibitivly expensive for the participants, other places may be able to do it but that does not necessaruly mean it will be possible here.
finally i dont think that there is the infrastructure or sites currently available for this purpose for it to move forwed without government assistance and i do not believe it to be the role of goverment to spend my tax dollars on the provision of an arena for people for people to commit a crime in. (burnouts are still illegal)

Agreed Danman. Mr VicePope continues to demonstrate on this site just how narrow minded he is – over and over and over.

DanMan – cage fighting does nothing for me or, I suspect, most people. And, unlike burnouts, there is minimal risk of damage to bystanders and innocent members of the public.

Or you suspect most people?

Minimal risk to bystanders ? Where is the issue here ?

Just because it is not your thing – does not make it unpopular.

Like I said, people may enjoy crochet – I am sure that there is many clubs and associations and (OMG) shops where you can get crochet supplies. Sure, not my thing, but that does not mean that because I do not like it that it is not popular. Pretty narrow train of thought if you ask me…….

Maybe I am a huge cage fighting fan, maybe not, but the presence of forums dedicated to it, and world tours and merchandise sales indicates the popularity of this global phenomenon, just the same as crochet or burnouts….

Long live free thinking.

That sounds pretty-much spot-on to me.

This seems like a storm in a teacup. All the time we hear people on this site carrying on about legalising things that some disagree with, because you can’t stop it and there are the social factors, etc. Just find a spot somewhere away from homes (industrial area would be ideal), mark off the spot, and let people go nuts. Have the police do a regular patrol to curb other undesirable behaviours, but generally make it known that if you want to burn some rubber, do it in the designated space.

Then apply some political pressure to magistrates to try to get them to hand out some proper punishments for those who STILL choose to do the wrong thing.

Cranky, you’re completely correct. To even further slaughter my last comment, we allow nightclubs, and some of the sh-t that goes on in them is just disgusting.

Just allow the damn thing. A safe venue for young people to enjoy a hobby? Just what is the problem?

Vicepope said: “It’s just that there has been no real reason offered for doing this.”

And there shouldn’t have to be one except that someone wants to do it. That’s what I was getting at in my previous post, that the role of the govt is not to allow things, but to prevent them. The default position should be that we can do anything unless the govt acts against it, not that we can’t do something unless the govt allows it. It’s a different mindset, and Vicepope’s view of the govt’s role is anathema to me.

I certainly know about how governments work in a practical sense, I used to work in one, and I know “it is a poor system but the best we’ve got”. But that’s really my point: that it is a poor system. We need to manage it to give the best result. For me, the best way for ill-informed, lacking-in-wisdom people, which is almost all of us, to govern is to butt out most of the time. By definition, they rarely add value. So we shouldn’t give them carte-blanche to approve or disapprove of what the rest of us do. Rather, they should only intrude into our daily lives when they have to for the common good.

I’m sorry if that’s a cynical view of humanity, but there are so many different influences in politics, some of which have nothing to do with common good but are political point-scoring and payback, that the outcome is almost never the best one it could be. Therefore, the committee, government, should make decisions as infrequently as possible. In terms of our discussion, that means we should go about our daily affairs with as little interference from the’committee’ as possible because, almost invariably, they will screw it up and not give the best outcome.

I think the big problem is there is not currently a suitable venue for controlled off-street burnouts. I doubt the Govt (or anyone else for that matter) is going to go to all the expense (and trouble) to build one even if a suitable location was found.

Look how long the Dragway debarcle has been going on and they are no closer to getting a facility than they were 10 years ago. The Dragway, though arguably noisier, is (was) a much more organised and commercial/professional operation and if they can’t get a facility I can’t see a burnout facility having a snowflake’s chance in hell of ever getting off the ground.

“Comment by VicePope — 24 December, 2007 @ 11:51 pm”

All I can say is what a F_king Idiot. This sort of attitude is exactly what gives Canberra a bad name. For f_k sake get a life and take off the cotton wool and just relax. I’m bloody glad I only visit this town now and don’t live here anymore.

Honestly is there some thing in the water that causes people to be so negative and so insular in their views that they cant be open minded enough to except that other people enjoy different things in life. What a sad boring outlook on life.

F_king wowser.

i8v84t – I would not dream of having a go at you, and indeed I agree with you that what you are proposing is vastly better than the unregulated (public road) alternative. It’s just that there has been no real reason offered for doing this, when there are serious costs and risks from which the ACT government might find it difficult to dissociate itself. My scepticism about alcohol free events comes from the number of people I know of who smuggle booze into Canberra Stadium, rather than pay the ripoff prices.

Have a good Christmas

I agree with Cranky: “I have no time for burnouts, but for diferent reasons to most. I have too much mechanical sympathy, and find the deliberate destruction involved anathema.”

I find it hard to believe that motoring enthusiasts enjoy such things. Most of the motoring enthusiasts i know deplore burnouts because of the damage it causes to the cars.

However, if people want to do it, then I’m all in favour of getting it off the streets and preferably as far away from me as possible 🙂

you say that i cant get the level of control, well sorry to say, you need to get out more, because you will find that most events these days are non alcohol, eg, supernats- eastern creek, super cruz, eastern creek, the top fuel dragsters, all events were non alcohol events, they were checking eskys before they went in, and if they were there, they were taken off them, non was sold in side either, they are trying to make these events more welcome to familys.
and thankyou to everyone who can see what i am trying achieve here and not having ago at me.

Bad things happen elsewhere, therefore it is ok for them to happen here? I thought we made much of being more educated, civilised etc in the ACT?
And I’d suggest a distinction can be drawn between the risks created by a serious enthusiast at Summernats with heaps of supervision and by a kid in a DIY Camira.

I shall be off and away for a few days, and so a happy and safe Christmas to all.

I think that the Government should ban horse racing.

People get assaulted every day of the week in Civic does that mean it should be banned. DMD you need to get out more and have a look at society. Same with Vicepope – these events happen at race tracks around the country regularly with nil injuries/deaths. People waste their own cars but thats their thing. Unlucky for those in the ACT we don’t have a race track to do this stuff on.

DMD,

Can we please make the distinction between burnouts and Summernats as a whole. The assaults were not made at the burnouts. It is interesting that audience involvement/attention during the burnouts is very high, so assaults/arguements are rare.

Cranky, there were a few assaults last time. Some girl got punched in the face, I remember.

Regardless, this activity would be better conducted somewhere were trained safety staff and security are on hand.

As I and many others have said, Vicepope, this is done on the street regardless of the law. Why spend countless resources trying to stamp it out when it can be done legally away from those it affects?

Sorry, it posted at the press of the wrong key.

To finish. We allow some pretty daft ‘entertainments’. Burnouts are not as offensive as some, and all dependent on your point of view.

I can’t see the idea getting up, but good on the man for the attempt.

VicePope,

You are overegging the potential for death/injury/damage throughout your commentary.

Please refer to the nonsense at Summernats. Full on, hours at a time. Damage – yes, to engines and tyres. Injuries – nil, Deaths – nil.

I have no time for burnouts, but for diferent reasons to most. I have too much mechanical sympathy, and find the deliberate destruction involved anathema.

That this person has proposed an organised event, with the deliberate aim of reducing damage, destruction, annoyance and offensive behaviour, is to be commended.

We are not trying to reduce the onset of WW3. Arguements about what governments should and should not

i8v84t – if one could achieve the level of control you mention, it might be less dangerous. Off the street is, I think everyone would agree, preferable to on it – although, if it is a road related area the rules may still apply. But it remains dangerous to some extent (with inexperienced drivers pushing too hard and stressed out bits of car failing immediately or a bit later) and it is a totally useless wasteful activity. (Like almost all sport, except moreso).

Getting booze out would be a hopeful gesture, but doomed in this society, I’m afraid. And even without booze, there’s other drugs and just that fine level of stupidity that is the property of those who have limited impulse control.

With the greatest of respect to the skilled drafters of such things, I am yet to see a waiver document that could not be avoided by any lawyer with a clue and half a case. There will be disasters, and someone will have to carry the can. I just don’t want it to be the public. Aside from the financial hazard (which could be addressed by full cost recovery for insurance, environmental consequence and the police presence), there is what might be called the “moral responsibility” issue – when the accidents happen, government will be blamed for allowing it (even if controlled and run privately), so it’s legitimate for government to ban or discourage it.

I’m still a no, and I haven’t seen anything that would shift that yet. And this is all without engaging the other issue – a car is just a lump of metal, rubber, plastic and glass. The everyday sedan can be quite useful, but to try to turn it into a motorsport device is akin to using the dining table as a vaulting horse and the cutlery for combat. It’s just silly.

ok look, it seems that people got off the subject here a bit, if it was to take place, i would make sure thet the event would run the same as other places such as eastern creek, a controlled event, which requires a person who wants to do burn outs to bring with there car rego papers, another set of tyres, they must also be fully clothed, and have a helmet, and as it has already been said, the drivers would be signing a waver, and if they were to hurt themselves, well, there would be medical staff on hand, and yes there would be a charge, there alot of things that would require payment. some people on here have been bagging out those who do burnouts, well did you ever think that there are car nuts out there that love to do it, if model building or knitting is your thing, no worries, go and do it, we wont knock you for it, so why knock the people whos passion is doing a bloody big burn out.

the difference for those who are unaware of doing a burnout in a controlled even rather than the street would be that you have fun, your mates can watch, and you dont loose either A your licence and B your car and C your life. THIS IS WHY THAT CALL IT A CONTROLLED EVENT.

the event would not be held on a street, it would be held in an enclosed course, and yes, the police would be involved, because if im going to set up a venue for people to do burnouts, i do not want it on the streets, so police would be present, it would also be a non alcohol event, none brought in and non sold. i would also encurage familys to come along, i know alot of fathers and sons would enjoy it and have some fun, and just because you dont like burnouts, dont f#@k it up for those who do. im trying to help the people who dont like it by getting it off the street, and help those who do like it by getting it off the street, so stop complaining.

I think this is a good initiative that should be supported, with 2 addenum: 1.could the venue be located much further away, and 2, as a condition of entry, you may never again leave the venue. The remainder of society will provide, free of charge, adequate provisions of (used) car tyres, beer (liquor licensing could require the collection and donation of all bars’ slops) and skanks (realistically, these would also be used)
with bourbon and i dunno…food? being provided every public holiday. Im thinking Kangaroo island would be a good spot (?is it currently on fire?) then some sharks with frikkin laserbeams on their heads could be brought in to facilitate the never leaving the facility part of the prospective arrangement.

Good comments, vicepope. Some people’s idea of government is saying “when I am king….”

and freedom to do something is always tempered by the principle of how it affects others. When we stopped throwing bones at each other and set up rules, our freedoms became limited by the social contract we entered into in order to be safe and comfortable, and free from the unwelcome incursions of others into our lives.

Sorry for the double post – it didn’t come up for a minute.

Jemmy – if you are going to do something, you need to do it somewhere. If it’s public land, that would need some form of approval – and this activity may need some kind of lease purpose change even if it isn’t. That process may mean a degree of consultation with other affected parties (eg neighbours).

As to whether or not burnouts are illegal, I am not an expert on the road rules, but wonder if the Road Transport (Traffic and Safety Management) Act and Regs (and the relevant offences in the Road Transport (Offences) Regs might apply if the venue was considered a “road related area” – which is pretty broad, though not universal.

Good government is about a preference for the overall public interest, and I’m reasonably happy that most governments (outside a few kleptocracies and dictatorships) try to achieve that. It’s not always about giving people what they, or the noisy ones among them, want. Rule by committee is what sometimes has to happen if there is more than one set of interests involved and sometimes the decisions don’t satisfy everyone or completely satisfy anyone.

In the question of burnouts, for example, there is probably useful opinion from (a) car enthusiasts, (b) those who work with young people, (c) neighbours and planning agencies, (d) environmental interests, (e) automotive engineering experts, (e) occupational health and safety experts and (f) statisticians and economists to work out the real cost and risk issues. On the last point, this is an activity additional to what most insurance would cover and either (i) you ramp up costs for everyone so a few clowns can risk their lives and vehicles or (ii) impose a real insurance cost that would be prohibitive and that would not take the problem off the streets.

It’s boring as, but unless a government does this stuff, it will make terrible errors. And it’s not really an answer to say that it’s all private amusement because of those other interests and because when some fool’s Gemini smashes into a bunch of onlookers, the media and the lawyers won’t blame and sue the possibly uninsured driver or the $2 company that runs the venue – they’ll go for the government that allowed this to happen.

Sorry for the length of this, but it narks me when people don’t get that government is more complex than TV current affairs suggests.

Jemmy – if you are going to do something, you need to do it somewhere. If it’s public land, that would need some form of approval – and this activity may need some kind of lease purpose change even if it isn’t. That process may mean a degree of consultation with other affected parties (eg neighbours).

As to whether or not burnouts are illegal, I am not an expert on the road rules, but wonder if the Road Transport (Traffic and Safety Management) Act and Regs (and the relevant offences in the Road Transport (Offences) Regs might apply if the venue was considered a “road related area” – which is pretty broad, though not universal. Someone might know.

Good government is about a preference for the overall public interest, and I’m reasonably happy that most governments (outside a few kleptocracies and dictatorships) try to achieve that. It’s not always about giving people what they, or the noisy ones among them, want. Rule by committee is what sometimes has to happen if there is more than one set of interests involved and sometimes the decisions don’t satisfy everyone or completely satisfy anyone.

In the question of burnouts, for example, there is probably useful opinion from (a) car enthusiasts, (b) those who work with young people, (c) neighbours and planning agencies, (d) environmental interests, (e) automotive engineering experts, (e) occupational health and safety experts and (f) statisticians and economists to work out the real cost and risk issues. On the last point, this is an activity additional to what most insurance would cover and either (i) you ramp up costs for everyone so a few clowns can risk their lives and vehicles or (ii) impose a real insurance cost that would be prohibitive and that would not take the problem off the streets.

It’s boring as, but unless a government does this stuff, it will make terrible errors. And it’s not really an answer to say that it’s all private amusement because of those other interests and because when some fool’s Gemini smashes into a bunch of onlookers, the media and the lawyers won’t blame and sue the possibly uninsured driver or the $2 company that runs the venue – they’ll go for the government that allowed this to happen.

Sorry for the length of this, but it narks me when people don’t get that government is more complex than TV current affairs suggests.

Jesus was a dirty peda-arse.

anyone who wants to do burnouts is a fckwit.

The difference between VicePope and me is that VicePope appears to believe the Govt should allow activities, and I think the Govt should prohibit them.

It’s a fundamental difference. By my rules, we can do anything we want, absolutely anything, until the Govt bans it. VicePope believes we can do nothing at all unless the Govt allows it.

VicePope’s belief implies that Govt is good and wise and governs for the benefit of all; mine implies Govt is rules-by-committee, the worst sort of governance, ordinary stupid people trying to tell us what to do with no wisdom or superior skills.

My experience with seeing how governments work makes me believe I am right.

A few years ago, neighbours went away for the weekend and left 17yr old son at home. Needless to say, at around 2am on Saturday night, mate of said 17yr old performed a beautiful burnout right up the street.
Priceless to see mate’s father back Sunday afternoon and making his son scrub the rubber off the tarmac for 3 or 4 hours.

DanMan – cage fighting does nothing for me or, I suspect, most people. And, unlike burnouts, there is minimal risk of damage to bystanders and innocent members of the public.

There’s a social cost involved – society has to pay for the cost of treating the broken bones and supporting those whose brains have become addled by being thumped. As well,it probably shows that humans have not really come all that far up the chain and it provides a poor lesson to the mugs who watch about the way to deal with disagreement.

Those are some of the reasons governments could make a sensible decision not to support it by providing premises/regulation/medical assistance on site.

When considering a dilemma, some Christians ask “What would Jesus do?”. (And I assume Wiccans ask the same thing of Gaia). When it comes to questions of civil governance, I ask myself what the wise and sane government advisers I have met would do – and they wouldn’t support activities that involve even the voluntary but non-incidental infliction of harm without any corresponding public benefit.

Best wishes for Christmas

VicePope, what is wrong with 2 consenting adults having fisticuffs in a controlled regulated environment (i.e. cage fighting?)

Some people get their kicks doing embroidery or loop hook wall hangs. Sure its not my thing – but at least I recognize it as enjoyable for some people.

Burnouts schmurnouts is my opinion – but getting them off built up areas and streets should be a good thing.

I am not really looking forward to working in Braddon come summer(G)nats season. I can guarantee that real car enthusiasts will not be doing unsanctioned burnouts in Braddon

The appeal of burnouts totally escapes me. I have absolutely no idea why anyone would do it, let alone find it enjoyable.

That said, whatever floats your boat – so long as it’s away from residences and it’s safe.

I’ll never forget back when I was in college watching these oxygen thieves doing burnouts and doughnuts in the carpark – missing parked cars and pedestrians by mere centimetres. Wankers.

Every firday night at eleven am, the rest area at the Barton highway saw close to one hundred cars go out for drags and burnouts. Disruption to traffic was the issue, not noise, I think something out there would be awesome.

Although its a good idea. I really can’t see this solving the problem on the streets. As mentioned there would have to be some form of vehicle inspections. I doubt that most culprits would have a safe car. And besides, why would you pay to do a burnout when you can do it on the street?

Also You look at Summernats. They have burnouts in the complex, and all of a sudden everyone thinks they can do it on the streets. Can;t see it working to be honest.

Have you got any stats from other states, re street burnouts before and after a supervised event?

That’s okay, mate. We all do it.

Deadman you were right, I misread the post, sorry mate

I’ve never understood the appear of burnouts but i can understand that some do. The idea of taking it away from the local streets is a great one but I think the chances of being able to do it on any public street is nil, even if the are a is closed off just for that activity at the time.

As a venue suggestion: isn’t there a footsal slab going unused at the moment 😉

SpecialG (is that anything like Special Ed?) – no, I’m not an idiot, especially measured against standards such as yours. I am what is technically known as an adult – I don’t need to make noise and bad smells (except in a flatulent sense) or wear out parts of my car for no sensible purpose and at some risk of component failure and catastrophe.

You haven’t addressed the arguments, and I suspect you can’t. No-one in his or her right mind would want to carry the liability can for this kind of thing. The users could not pay the full cost and there is nothing for a government that, in effect, subsidises already silly people who are at risk of becoming crippled and brain-damaged by their preferred pursuit. Not all hobbies and pastimes are offensive and dangerous.

I would not disagee that it’s better somewhere else than on suburban streets, and for raising that the original poster hould be congratulated. But the participants have to get there and back (see Sepi and Ant’s posts) and there is a high level of risk of injury spread over any substantial number of participants (relatively inexperienced drivers with poor impulse control in questionably maintained vehicles). So, I’d be a no.

Actually, Sepi’s question was a very germaine one. When the unlamented late dragway was operating (and after it was upgraded), the drag racing fans did indeed make a racket when they were leaving. We could hear them out at the roundabout gunning their engines, racing each other, skidding and screeching around the roundabout. It was noisy and anti-social, hardly surprising really.

Gotta love an issue that gets people fired up. Vicepope you’re an idiot – just because it’s not your type of fun doesn’t mean it’s not some other persons and we have someone here trying to get it out of the suburbs into a controlled venue.

Personally I don’t give a shit and burn rubber on your cars as much as you like.

I was replying to the argument within the thread. Knobhead.

So yur house is outside Sutton driver training centre BigDave or wakefield park you idiot lol He’s talking about an off street controlled event not an illegal free for all on the street.

Burnouts are no better than getting pissed up and making a nuisance of yourself in public. Bloody anti-social.
aronde is right. You try selling your house with tyres marks plastered up and down your street. It screams “Hoonsville”. You’ve got no effing chance!
Whoever tries it outside my house better prepare for a brick through their windscreen and a good kicking.

lol No its called getting out there and enjoying life. And if you like doing that sort of thing in a car in a controlled venue then that’s great.

Like any motor sport event the competitors would sign a waiver form acknowledging the risks and then just get on with it. Every body else not involved can go about their lives as they see fit and every body’s happy.

GroonSnout. I can’t see the point of ocean racing, and am conscious of the debate every time some clown has to be rescued at vast public expense (Ms Autissier and Mr Bullimore being two whose names I can recall). Despite their foolishness, and despite their failure to make proper arrangements for their own rescue, we recognise and act on a duty to rescue them – but that should not mean we allow anyone who wishes to do so to behave in an unnecessaily dangerous way. (If there were people who said they liked jumping out of aircraft without parachutes, should the ACT government offer them a drop zone?).

Whatever. Two more points. First, if there is some kind sanctioned burnout venue, there will at some point be an accident. The highly tuned minds of the media and the local ambulance chasing fraternity will ignore the real cause (some dumbass in a crap car trying to do things for which he has not the skill or experience) and blame and sue the ACT government for licensing the carnage. Any government that gave this the go ahead would be taking an unacceptable risk with its credibility.

Second, I expect that there are people out there in the community who enjoy cage fighting, dog fighting, cockfighting and paedophilia. The day we as a society sanction what they would like to do because it’s something a body of people wants to do is the day we lose the plot altogether. The burnouts, amateur drag racing etc are dissimilar only in degree rather than in an absolute sense.

You can hire out the driver training centre at Sutton. That would be your best bet closest to Canberra its got a purpose built skid pan to. Other then that Wakefield Park although they have just recently upped their fees be something like 80%.

sheesh.. live a little. The sail was invented to transport people across the sea, so why do we race ships? If you receive pleasure from driving fast/recklessly then why the hell not do it (in a controlled environment of course)

consider it a methadone clinic for the automobile fraternity.

In an ideal world, no-one would feel the urge to act like an idiot. This thread suggests society should give up and let the idiots go and damage their vehicles and risk maiming themselves and each other while creating a serious amount of noise. Cars are for driving in, for the purpose of going places for work and pleasure – those activities don’t require burnouts or any other form of cretinism.

I can’t agree. There is a social obligation to stop stupid people from suffering the worst consequences of what they do. To make anything like this work, one would need to (a) charge a substantial fee (because of the need to insure against damage in a high risk environment), (b) check the roadworthiness of the vhicles, at further cost, so that those which are likely to have catastrophic failures can be excluded and (c) having a significat police presence around the venue to prevent people from carrying their idiocy into the wider world. It would be as much fun as fishing with Greenpeace, I fear, and cost more than those likely to do it could afford.

Sepi,

No!

Genuine answer. Your question is so left field I am having dificulty finding a simile to compare.

You appear to have an extrordinarily low opinion of our rubber burning bretheren. They may not be Rhodes scholars, but no, they would not generally race/do burnouts/drag race on the way to and from such an event.

This is a genuine question, but when you have an organised car event, say like burnouts at Hume, then wouldn’t all the hoon cars race each other on the way there and on the way back, and show off their nifty (crazy) driving?

Maybe Sheppard St. in Hume is a bit mainstream.

But check out the southern end of Tralee St. in the same suburb. Known as a quiet place to torch the odd stolen car, nice bitumen, no neighbors, hey go for it.

if i was to get the approval of this, i would certainly make the venue a place away from houses, like majura or hume. the more support i can get for this, the quicker i can get the marks off the street and to a safe place were you can have the fun.

that should win win for everyone.

I’m not one for smoking rubber, but support such an event off the streets. It’s safer for everyone and in all honesty, if it results in less noise at night then I’m all the more for it.

It is actually not just the ‘noise’ factor – try selling your house with burnouts plastered ALL over the street. First question prospective buyers asked our agent was about the ‘hoon’ activity!

Bizarrely enough I’ve just had someone drop a burnout right out the front of my place. Probably the first time it’s ever happened. Can’t say I was overly traumatised.

Nothing wrong with burnouts, as long as they are conducted in non-residential areas.

Hume, brand depot,Majura…. no problems at all.

I’d have no problem with it…. I even suspect it’d be pretty good fun to go and watch. BUT, I’m one of these terrible people who doesn’t want this kind of noise happening when I’m trying to relax in front of the TV/read/sew whatever. So, if you wanted to have it near homes, you’d want to look into sound control and realistically, the noise made by an angry engine really travels.

However, if you could find a venue that didn’t make people miserable in their own homes, I’d say you might be on a winner.

Maybe if you ask the govt nicely they will build you one right next to the new drag strip 😛

The only issue I can imagine people having is noise, solve that and you’re all set. If its away from the suburbs then who cares? Have a good time.

Um, Swaggie I said take it away from suburbs. If you want to oblige me with a smokeshow at 1am, I’d be more than happy to make a mess of your face with the windscreen and shove the exhaust pipe up your arse. Unfortunatley, I’m not allowed to post it.

Read what’s being written. Venue, not street. Duh.

See if you can hire Sheppard St., Hume. No-one is supposed to live there, and the road surface has already been well tested.

All in favour of it and IF DMD thinks it’s okay in the suburbs can he please post his address and I’ll oblige him with a smokeshow at 1am outside his front door.

As I like to say about the Summernats, I think it’s good for stupid people to have their fun too, provided they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses. Sounds like a victimless crime, and now that Wee Johnny is no longer in power, you have a chance to make your dream come true…

You’ll find alot of people on here complaining about their oh-so-precious quiet. Personally, even though I’ve never been much of a rubber-burning freak, I think a proper venue would be a great option. If people are willing to risk their license to do it on the streets, why not just regulate it and introduce safety measures – and take them away from suburbs full of people with sensitive ears.