15 October 2008

Election wrap - 15 October

| johnboy
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Roadside:

Megan Doherty in the Canberra Times is weirdly excited by finding David Morgan skulking by his signs on Yamba drive rather than doing the hard yakka of door knocking.

Buses to Quangers:

The ABC reports that Deane’s Transit Group wants to know what the parties will do for them.

Education:

The CT is trying to get across the massive wishlists from all comers on education. Things they can’t deliver with money they do not have.

Health:

Candidates are putting forth ideas on reducing hospital waiting lists in the Canberra Times.

The CT is rather excited by Zed’s decision to pick up the Labor health policy rather than be beaten around the head by Jon Stanhope in the leader’s debate.

Labor:

Jon Stanhope is outraged that Zed has caved in to his health policy.

The Canberra Times has word of a Labor plan to make it easier to convert empty offices into housing. Now who presided over the planning failures that lead us here?

JonKat reckon the new west Belco “Kingsford Smith School” is an example of how great their education policies are.

Mr Stanhope is on his own in promising more slums.

Katy Gallagher is once again flogging the dead horse of Liberal health policy.

Jon Stanhope is weeping, wailing, and tearing at his clothes lamenting that any jobs might be lost from the sacred ACT Public Service should the public be so stupid as to vote for anyone but him.

CAP:

CAP thinks it’s a good idea to stick their noses into your behaviour and addictions with early intervention.

Liberals:

Brendan Smyth is thinking happy thoughts about how much he’d like to help business development with millions of dollars.

The ABC brings word of areas the Liberals plan to cut spending:

    Areas the Liberals have targeted include arts programs and a 20 per cent cut in travel budgets.

    They are aiming to save on programs and services at the ACT’s new jail and on the centenary of Canberra project.

Greens:

Meredith Hunter thinks now is the time for more spending on public housing.

Mulcahy Canberra Party:

Richard is outraged that the Liberals will de-fund playgrounds and streetlighting to pay for their other promises.

Richard also has a cunning plan to help disabled pensioners get back to work.

Field notes:

Welkin31 opined:

    Listening to the two major parties argue over who said what over health and hospitals, I wondered how inefficient it must be for a city of ~300,000 people to try and duplicate all these layers of administration. Typically in Oz, cities do not run hospitals. So why do we not tell Kev747 that his Fed Health Dept now has the lot to run for us and whatever areas of regional NSW we serve now.

Squashee observed:

    I was just driving through Civic at lunchtime and noticed something very strange.

    There was a Subaru Forester driving around with the signs of the Greens candidates obvious driving around during lunchtime trying to advertise.

    This got me on two points, 1) the Greens were driving a car called a Forester – would have thought the name alone would have prevented a Green from buying the car. 2) They were driving around advertising – if they drove for an hour, they would use nearly ten litres of petrol – how much pollution are they putting in the atmosphere?

    On another point, do the Greens use only recycled paper for their how-to-vote cards and collect them again for recycling? I wont even start to go into detail about the plastic “Greens” posters on the side of the roads.

Jonathan Reynolds has an examination of the chaotically law breaking Liberals:

    I was surprised to receive the following email today:

    —–

    From: Canberra Liberals [mailto:info@canberraliberals.org.au]
     Sent: Tuesday, 14 October 2008 9:36 AM
     To: Canberra Liberals
     Subject: FW: [Spam?]FW: Molonglo Campaign Update - 14 Oct 08
     Importance: High
    
    Molonglo Campaign Update
    
    Tuesday October 14th 2008
    4 Days To Go
    
    Dear Central Electorate Branch Members,
    
    Please see the attached Molonglo Campaign Update.
    With only four days until polling day, this will
    be the final update.
    
    We still need volunteers to work on polling booths
    and shopping centres on Saturday (polling day).
    We have slots available at many different booths at
    all times of the day. We also need scrutineers to
    work for an hour or two after the booths close. 
    
    It’s vitally important we have a strong Liberal
    presence at booths on Saturday to help influence
    the 20% of voters who make up their mind on the day. 
    
    Please see the update for further details on volunteering,
    or contact me via return email ([REDACTED]) or give me
    call on [REDACTED].
    
    Regards,
    Jimmy Kiploks
    CEB Chairman
    
    [REDACTED - pdf file with mostly the same information]

    —–

    Nothing wrong with the intent, you gotta give every party or candidate credit for looking for volunteers to squeeze every available last vote out of the electorate. The only issue is here is that in the ACT it is against the law to canvass within 100m of a polling booth.

    From the ACT Electoral Act
    Division 17.3 – Campaign Offences

    303 Canvassing within 100m of polling places
    (1) A person shall not, during polling hours within the defined polling area in relation to a polling place—
    (a) do anything for the purpose of influencing the vote of an elector as the elector is approaching, or while the elector is at, the polling place; or
    (b) do anything for the purpose of inducing an elector not to vote as the elector is approaching, or while the elector is at, the polling place; or
    (c) exhibit a notice containing electoral matter that is able to be clearly seen by electors approaching, or at, the polling place, other than a notice authorised by the commissioner for display there.
    Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.
    (2) If the building where a polling place is located is situated on grounds within an enclosure, the commissioner may, by written notice, specify the boundary of that enclosure for subsection (7), definition of defined polling area, paragraph (b).
    (3) A notice is a notifiable instrument.
    Note A notifiable instrument must be notified under the Legislation Act 2001.

    (4) An officer may, if directed by the commissioner, remove or obliterate a notice that the commissioner or the officer believes on reasonable grounds to be exhibited in contravention of this section.
    (5) Subsection (4) does not authorise an officer to enter land that is subject to a territory lease.
    (6) A person shall not obstruct an officer in the exercise or attempted exercise of the officer’s functions under subsection (4).
    Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units, imprisonment for 6 months or both.
    (7) In this section:
    defined polling area, in relation to a polling place, means the area—
    (a) within the building where the polling place is located, and within 100m of the building; or
    (b) if the commissioner issues a notice under subsection (2) in relation to the polling place—within the boundary of the enclosure specified in the notice, and within 100m outside that boundary.
    polling hours, in relation to a polling place, means—
    (a) for a polling place appointed under section 119—between the hours of 8 am and 6 pm on polling day; or
    (b) for a polling place where a vote may be made before an officer—any time when the place is open for the acceptance of votes; or
    (c) for a polling place where polling is authorised under division 10.5—the period when a mobile polling visit is being made to the building where that place is located.

    Should the law be changed to allow canvassing and how to vote cards be handed out as they are in the Federal Election – within close proximity (6m) of polling booths?

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Saw the Greens on the side of the road this morning on Athllon Drive – their waving person was wearing a cape and a Kevin Rudd mask. Not sure what they hope to achieve by this…

No, keep them away! I’d like a ban on how-to-vote cards and all that stuff. I’m not a greenie, but even I cringe to think of the trees that went into all that paper that no one reads.

Jonathon Reynolds1:01 am 16 Oct 08

bd84 said :

You can take it up with the Labor party, who had a gentleman handing out how to vote cards for Tracey Mackey in front of the pre-polling centre in the city last week, he would have been about a good 20 metres away.

Which begs the original question I asked in the first place…
Should the law be changed to allow canvassing and how to vote cards be handed out as they are in the Federal Election – within close proximity (6m) of polling booths?

Jonathon Reynolds said :

Looks like the Liberals are not the only ones looking to test the 100m canvassing limit.
This just arrived from the Greens

—–

From: office@act.greens.org.au
Date: 15 October 2008 6:18:08 PM
To: office@act.greens.org.au
Subject: E-Brief: Polling day this Saturday

ACT Greens E-Brief

The ACT Greens: Join | Donate | Volunteer | Unsubscribe – Please feel welcome to forward this email on. Do not reply to this email

Helping with polling day campaigning

This Saturday is polling day for the ACT election!

We are asking all Greens members and supporters to pitch in for a 3 hour shift on election day to get a last minute reminder about the Greens to people as they go to vote. We will be doing information stalls at shopping centres and near polling places, reminding people to vote and popping a pamphlet with Greens voting information into people’s hands as they pass by.

If you can help on Saturday you can either:

Come in to the Greens office on Thursday night (October 16th) between 5:30pm and 8:30pm to put your name on a roster and pick up the materials that you will need on the day; or

Call the office on 6247 6305 to put your name on a roster over the phone, and to work out how we can get the materials you will need to you. …

You can take it up with the Labor party, who had a gentleman handing out how to vote cards for Tracey Mackey in front of the pre-polling centre in the city last week, he would have been about a good 20 metres away.

what about spruiking – would be funny to see that.

I just checked – tee shirt is grammatically correct… and apparently authorised. Whew. I think CPR hasn’t done a bad job for a ‘bunch of nimbies’. Not bad at all.

its says cpr on it but doesn’t have any authorisation (it’s the same as the one on the website but with a different authorisation, maybe an earlier design or a trail printing); it looks pretty shoddy so i’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say it might have been a printing error but it doesn’t instill much confidence in this bunch of nimby’s cause.

(i’m not even going to mention the grammatical errors)

I’m not closely involved (but I do like my new tee-shirt!), but as far as I know – all flyers authorised. That is what the CPR guy just told me (I just checked when I read your post). Maybe there are some renegades dropping unauthorised flyers? I’ll let the guys know.

serious, cos the one i’m looking at right now wasn’t done properly

Thanks Jonathon, I knew you’d know! Tom tom – the electoral commission have given the CPR the green light for all flyers.

Jonathon Reynolds7:13 pm 15 Oct 08

Looks like the Liberals are not the only ones looking to test the 100m canvassing limit.
This just arrived from the Greens

—–

From: office@act.greens.org.au
Date: 15 October 2008 6:18:08 PM
To: office@act.greens.org.au
Subject: E-Brief: Polling day this Saturday

ACT Greens E-Brief

The ACT Greens: Join | Donate | Volunteer | Unsubscribe – Please feel welcome to forward this email on. Do not reply to this email

Helping with polling day campaigning

This Saturday is polling day for the ACT election!

We are asking all Greens members and supporters to pitch in for a 3 hour shift on election day to get a last minute reminder about the Greens to people as they go to vote. We will be doing information stalls at shopping centres and near polling places, reminding people to vote and popping a pamphlet with Greens voting information into people’s hands as they pass by.

If you can help on Saturday you can either:

Come in to the Greens office on Thursday night (October 16th) between 5:30pm and 8:30pm to put your name on a roster and pick up the materials that you will need on the day; or

Call the office on 6247 6305 to put your name on a roster over the phone, and to work out how we can get the materials you will need to you. …

JR is dead on. last year they were making people turn their kevin07 shirts inside out.

Jonathon Reynolds6:58 pm 15 Oct 08

@deezagood

deezagood said :

Here’s a question …. as a person with no formal membership of any political party, can I mooch about the polling booths wearing my new ‘Leave labor Blank’ tee shirt? Is this illegal too?

Just two sections further on in the Electoral Act:

305 How-to-vote material in polling places

(1) A person shall not, except for the purposes of assisting another person to vote under section 156, exhibit or leave in a polling place any printed electoral matter.
Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.
(2) This section does not apply in relation to a notice authorised by the commissioner for display in the polling place.

And I guess printed on a T-shirt would apply too.

deezagood; if i were you i wouldn’t be advertising my membership of a group which is openly committing electoral fraud (properly authorising flyers isn’t just something the big boys need to do)

“Jon Stanhope is weeping, wailing, and tearing at his clothes lamenting…”

Wow, the RA thesaurus is getting a workout today.

*whispers: ‘a bit OTT JB…’*

Here’s a question …. as a person with no formal membership of any political party, can I mooch about the polling booths wearing my new ‘Leave labor Blank’ tee shirt? Is this illegal too?

jakez said :

Norvan.Vogt said :

jakez – how did i loose your vote? i don’t get it in the context of this tread?

As Jenny said, it was due to the CAP addiction policy. If you publicly repudiate this policy (RiotACT will do) I’ll be happy to ush you back up towards the top. However we’ll have to have a chat about your lose/loose confusion.

I just read your questionaire answers. Don’t bother trying to reach me.

Norvan, I’m grateful that you’re OK with not-for-profit poker tournaments despite your views on gambling, but a bit concerned that you would not allow them in licenced clubs. Do you think The Front might be willing to host a poker tournament???

Norvan.Vogt said :

jakez – how did i loose your vote? i don’t get it in the context of this tread?

As Jenny said, it was due to the CAP addiction policy. If you publicly repudiate this policy (RiotACT will do) I’ll be happy to ush you back up towards the top. However we’ll have to have a chat about your lose/loose confusion.

Norvan, I think jakez doesn’t seem to like that “CAP thinks it’s a good idea to stick their noses into your behaviour and addictions with early intervention” – see article.

Did Megan Doherty report today that Norvan Vogt was spotted in Haig Park yesterday morning overseeing the display of his signs beside N’Bourne Ave??? I’m sorry I laughed at you Norva – I thought it looked cute. I feel bad so may vote for you now but I’d better check out the behaviour and addictions thing more closely… (I’d thought you were an independent for some reason…)

jakez – how did i loose your vote? i don’t get it in the context of this tread?

i dont really care either way; to be honest a bit of me thinks that if a candidates not trying to gain unfair advantage they certainly should be

I was going to make that same observation politikos but in response to tom-tom’s post (whose basis was predicated on Troy denying the incident).

I’m not so quick to draw a conclusion from it though. To be frank, it would be terribly stupid of a candidate to do such a thing. If a polling official were to give permission, that would be an even more concerning breach.

jimbocool said :

… the overreaction from Maryhow is getting a bit close to ‘doth protest too much’.

But I note that Troy Williams doesn’t say that Giulia is innocent of the accusation, just notes that maryhow’s comments about incest reflect poorly on her (which they do, I agree). Isn’t Troy Giulia with G’s campaign manager? Surely he’d say if it was false accusation?!

Yes – I don’t understand Maryhow’s spasm either. My point was that a Polling Official would not say that it was OK for a candidate to be handing out promotional material within 100m of a polling booth. That part of the story is demonstrably false – the cause of the falsehood was either Giulia herself misleading Maryhow, or Maryhow misleading us. I didn’t draw a conclusion, but the overreaction from Maryhow is getting a bit close to ‘doth protest too much’.
I’ve never met Jakez – except in these august pages.

maryhow said :

If jimbo had read the original post instead of going into a spasm that the electoral officials wouldn’t do that or I was lying or Giulia was telling porkies he would have noticed that I said that I spoke to her within 20m of the Polling Booth where she also had her signs out as well.

I know you said that. jimbo knows you said that. That very statement is the fundamental basis for the two conclusions that he drew.

Am I missing something? Have I lost my mind or am I stuck in somebody elses unending descent into madness?

*see gulia do it

Alright everyone time to calm down with the name calling.

The right to mock Tasmanians, however, I will defend to the death.

cos you’d be the very model of an impartial witness wouldn’t you troy? why dont you stick to vandalising public property?

(and for the record, while i certainly didn’t guilia do it, considering how she has behaved at shopping centre stalls recently it wouldn’t suprise me)

TroyWilliams3:08 pm 15 Oct 08

Maryhow you really are a nasty piece of contradictory work. Perhaps a chill pill may be best … referring to somebody as disgraceful and at the same time sounding off about incest reflects poorly on you, it’s sad really …

jakez said :

maryhow said :

jakez said :

maryhow said :

jimbocool said :

There is no way known that a polling offical would or could give permission for someone to be canvassing within the 100m – the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

Hey jimbocool – reread my post , I was taliking to Giulia inside the courtyard at Pilgrim House – 20m from the door. I was being sarcasstic about the Tasmanian connection

How is his statement in contradiction with your original post?

Because jimbocool said the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

I had already stated that i spoke to her 20m away from the polling booth

Jesus christ. Jimbocool doesn’t need to reread your post maryhow. He has taken the facts as you have put them. Applied his own knowledge (that a polling official would never give permission), and then stated the two possible conclusions.

These two conclusions are that either you are a liar or that Giulia is a liar. You saying that you aren’t lying isn’t evidence that you aren’t lying.

What exactly are you trying to say about jimbocool’s post?

Jakez – bit touchy over jimbocool, are you prison lovers.

If jimbo had read the original post instead of going into a spasm that the electoral officials wouldn’t do that or I was lying or Giulia was telling porkies he would have noticed that I said that I spoke to her within 20m of the Polling Booth where she also had her signs out as well.

At last, people are fighting over me *blush*
Megan Doherty used to be head cheerleader for Stanhope, but she seems to have regained a semblance of balance. David McLennan and David Stockman have been doing most of the CT write ups and have been pretty good IMO.

jakez said :

To be fair, she seems to write about half the paper.

I agree jakez, certainly seems like megan has been doing that for a few months now. what happend to their other writers?

To be fair, she seems to write about half the paper.

Just read the Megan Doherty piece. I think it actually might be a new low for CT election coverage, even for her.

maryhow said :

jakez said :

maryhow said :

jimbocool said :

There is no way known that a polling offical would or could give permission for someone to be canvassing within the 100m – the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

Hey jimbocool – reread my post , I was taliking to Giulia inside the courtyard at Pilgrim House – 20m from the door. I was being sarcasstic about the Tasmanian connection

How is his statement in contradiction with your original post?

Because jimbocool said the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

I had already stated that i spoke to her 20m away from the polling booth

Jesus christ. Jimbocool doesn’t need to reread your post maryhow. He has taken the facts as you have put them. Applied his own knowledge (that a polling official would never give permission), and then stated the two possible conclusions.

These two conclusions are that either you are a liar or that Giulia is a liar. You saying that you aren’t lying isn’t evidence that you aren’t lying.

What exactly are you trying to say about jimbocool’s post?

Gungahlin Al1:21 pm 15 Oct 08

Someone needs to recalibrate their sarcasm detection meter methinks…
🙂

jakez said :

maryhow said :

jimbocool said :

There is no way known that a polling offical would or could give permission for someone to be canvassing within the 100m – the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

Hey jimbocool – reread my post , I was taliking to Giulia inside the courtyard at Pilgrim House – 20m from the door. I was being sarcasstic about the Tasmanian connection

How is his statement in contradiction with your original post?

Because jimbocool said the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

I had already stated that i spoke to her 20m away from the polling booth

The awful part is that when your candidate is voted into power, so are you, in all your malevolence.

maryhow said :

Granny said :

… especially as 100m was not far enough, yet the alleged incident occurred 20 metres from the door. I presume you reported this to the electoral commission?

Thanks Granny, yes I did.

Good. I hate being hassled at the polling booth!

maryhow said :

jimbocool said :

There is no way known that a polling offical would or could give permission for someone to be canvassing within the 100m – the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

Hey jimbocool – reread my post , I was taliking to Giulia inside the courtyard at Pilgrim House – 20m from the door. I was being sarcasstic about the Tasmanian connection

How is his statement in contradiction with your original post?

Granny said :

… especially as 100m was not far enough, yet the alleged incident occurred 20 metres from the door. I presume you reported this to the electoral commission?

Thanks Granny, yes I did.

jakez said :

What was she doing at the time?

Handing out her leaflets saying Vote one for me Giulia with a G.

jimbocool said :

There is no way known that a polling offical would or could give permission for someone to be canvassing within the 100m – the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

Hey jimbocool – reread my post , I was taliking to Giulia inside the courtyard at Pilgrim House – 20m from the door. I was being sarcasstic about the Tasmanian connection

What was she doing at the time?

If this is true, it ought to be reported.

… especially as 100m was not far enough, yet the alleged incident occurred 20 metres from the door. I presume you reported this to the electoral commission?

AussieGal83 said :

Why do you think affordable housing equates to slums?

Because it’s built cheap and small from the start.

Far better to build new luxury accommodation which the wealthy can move into, vacating their well built residences for the less well off.

Aurelius said :

Jakez,

There may be some polling booths where handing out HTV info on the day outside the 100m is practical. But in Gungahlin, the ALP has never done it as the 100m exclusion zone means we’d need 30 people on a polling booth, and it’s not practical.
So I not sure where the major parties have been working the booths. But I certainly haven’t seen any in the decade or so since the law came in.

Sorry Aurelius my comments were vague. You are absolutely right, on many booths it is impossible.

Oh, and it’s odd that Jimmy thinks 20% of voters make their minds up on the day and are susceptible to HTV cards. Research I’d seen indicates the number is rarely more than 2-3%.

I personally trust maryhow’s version of events. I have no reason to believe that she has any political motivation whatsoever for turning up on RiotACT and posting vehement diatribes about the election.

Why do you think affordable housing equates to slums?

Sepi,
At the Federal election, even though one might define ‘the polling place’ as the hall within the school grounds where the voting takes place, the officials usually define it as “the school” and thus, the 6 metres is measured from the entrance to the school.
If anyone sees Guilia or anyone else handing out stuff inside the 100m zone, I’d suggest a quick snap with the camera-phone, and a phone call or email to the Elections ACT people

Al, sounds like the polling place for me then!

There is no way known that a polling offical would or could give permission for someone to be canvassing within the 100m – the story is either completely made up or Giulia-with-a-G was telling porkies.

is it 100m from the door, or the property, or the actual voting booths or what?
anyone know?

Those disgraceful, nasty, cheating, bastard, filthy, slime dwelling harlot liberals.

Disgraceful!

All hail the Thumper. Beautifully summed up.

100 m – not far enough. I prepolled at Pilgrim House early on in the election and Giulia Jones was about 20 meters from the door – clearly & blatanly breaking the law. When I approached her, she said she had permission from the Polling Official. How far does the Tasmanian incest tree spread – obviously all the way to Elections ACT. How many people did she influence inside the 100 meters. Liberals will stop at nothing to get elected. Disgraceful.

Gungahlin Al11:13 am 15 Oct 08

Well not a single person canvassing near the Gungahlin pre-poll station this week – and it would be hard to, as the carpark outside the scout hall is clearly within the 100m zone. So nice not to run the gauntlet.

Another plus for prepolling.

Jon get over yourself (hard he is BIG) we all know you wanted to run as a Liberal, be the liberal for Gungahlin Blah, Blah. It is time to move on.

I’m still chuckling over ‘Zed in Bed’….

Jakez,

There may be some polling booths where handing out HTV info on the day outside the 100m is practical. But in Gungahlin, the ALP has never done it as the 100m exclusion zone means we’d need 30 people on a polling booth, and it’s not practical.
So I not sure where the major parties have been working the booths. But I certainly haven’t seen any in the decade or so since the law came in.

The major parties have been working the booths from outside 100m for years. The two john’s should be ashamed of themselves.

RE: Liberals and health. Jakez is embarrassed.

Re CAP: Norvan Vogt just lost my vote.

Thanks PM, I’m going for teleport.

I agree with Soolin. As long as you can get past the 100m mark, you’ll not be bothered. Think parachute or pole-vault.

Jon, mate, I think you’re reading the email too literally. Every party will have people handing out how to vote cards as close as they can to the polling booths. I’m sure no one will break the law. It’s a non-issue.

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