casino said :

Why do you think the ACT Goverment sees it as logical for a casino not to offer poker machines as a gambling option?

Because Canberra already has too many.

Skidbladnir, clubs do a great job and many contribute far more to the community than they have to – no argument from me there.

The Casino is prepared to pay $10,000,000 up front and up to 30% tax on gaming revenue. Any way you look at it, it is a good deal. We also pay an annual licence fee of $750,000. Most of our income comes from interstate or international guests. Locals, like me, tend to go to their local club. Every government report commissioned to look into whether the Casino should have pokies ie Price Waterhouse Report, Coopers Lybrand Report, Allen Consulting Group Report and most recently, the Productivity Commission report, all agree that there should be machines in the Casino.

Why do you think the ACT Goverment sees it as logical for a casino not to offer poker machines as a gambling option?

The last thing we need as a community is more poker machines. Having seen first hand the damage they can do to people and relationships I would be happy to see them all go.

The thing I find interesting is that the ‘problem pokie players’ I have known, almost without exception, have not been interested in other froms of gambling, except for the weekly lotto ticket.

Personally, if I was to indulge in some money losing, I would prefer to do it either at a track or in a casino with no poker machines – can’t stand the nosies they make and have to say they make any venue seem less classy.

Playing the pokies is a mugs game, it would be a different if you could win a percentage back, there are no limits unlike the old days.

Now that’s arguing.

casino said :

For a club with around 200 machines, the minimum contribution would be around $350,000. For 200 machines, the Casino is prepared to pay a community contribution (in the form of an up front gaming machine licence fee) of $10,000,000. It would take the club 28 years to equal that.

Greetings and welcome to RiotACT!
I will prepare an better-contructed arugment using further numbers eventually, but have a few quick questions:
1) Why, when the Gaming Contributions are legislated as being calculated based on annual NGMR after-the-fact, and gaming machine taxes are paid monthly after-the fact, would you pay your Community Contribution up front based on a wholly inaccurate guesstimated model?

2) The Club with closest to 200 machines is currently Gungahlin Lakes Golf & Community Club with 195 machines, who had a minimum contribution of $373,071 in FY08-09 (7% NGMR, or 3.89% GGMR if you want to invoke it).
They in fact donate $1,373,533, for a 14.33% return to community as a calculated using NGMR.
This equates to roughly $7043.76 of community return per machine per year, with an average Gross Gaming Machine Revenue to Club of $49,162.

On the other hand, you are offering just over seven years equivalent of their community contribution spending upfront, but if I’m understanding it correctly, intend to pay potentially only minimum 7% NGMR-based return (ie: a smidge less than four cents out of every GGMR dollar (gambled and lost)) to the community in subsequent years to make up for it?

Please, can you clarify any of that further?

Chop71 said :

Well if the Canberra Labour Club wasn’t making money hand over fist for the Labour party then they would be open to competition and allow the Casino to have poker machines.

Simple as that.

LABOR people, say it with me L-A-B-O-R

P1 says “can’t see a good reason to take pokies from clubs which at least have to give a little money back to the community, and put them in a business who is solely interested in taking money from people through gambling”. A 2005 Ernst & Young study shows the Casino has contibuted up to $347,000,000 to the Canberra community – and this is a net figure. While Canberra clubs do an excellent job, don’t assume that private companies don’t give back their share. Clubs must give 7% minimum community contribution on their net gaming machine revenue. And I know many clubs give more. For a club with around 200 machines, the minimum contribution would be around $350,000. For 200 machines, the Casino is prepared to pay a community contribution (in the form of an up front gaming machine licence fee) of $10,000,000. It would take the club 28 years to equal that. And that is besides the fact that we pay an annual licence fee of around $750,000 and we pay a much hire gaming tax. By the way, we made an initial community contribution of $19,000,000 which went to build the new Play House Theatre and the Canberra Museum among other things.

I think it might be time for Mr Parton to make a disclosure. He recently had an article on his blog about how he had a win on the pokies and was encouraging callers to his program to discuss wins that they had had.

I’m not pro-pokies… actually very much against them. But if we are going to have them, the Casino really should have them as long as they comply with the proposed standards which may come into effect under the proposed changes by Wilkie and Xenophon.

Personally I’d like to see no pokies at all or at least a 30%-50% reduction in Pokie numbers across the country… but if there are to be machines, I see no logical argument for the so-called community clubs to have exclusive rights to them in the ACT.

Aye, if the Casinos get poker machines then the clubs should be able to put “club poker” tournaments on.

And what about playing poker anywhere I want within the ACT??

Well if the Canberra Labour Club wasn’t making money hand over fist for the Labour party then they would be open to competition and allow the Casino to have poker machines.

Simple as that.

I would suggest that Mark Parton’s gambling is quite different from the average Australian. At least the average Australian in the younger generations. I personally have only the vaguest idea what the hell he is talking about when he says a $10,000 quaddie (some sort of very expensive 4 wheel motorbike), and of my peers who do occasionally gamble, it is in pokies in their local club. I have gambled at the casino exactly once, and that was on a friends 21st birthday.

While I suggest his cynicism re Labor control of pokies is probably valid, I can’t see a good reason to take pokies from clubs which at least have to give a little money back to the community, and put them in a business who is solely interested in taking money from people through gambling.

He’s certainly swimming against the prevailing tide, being pro-pokies…