Parents fibbing to health surveys?

IP, it’s pretty clear that my considered response to your question was a waste of time. You are not really interested in learning or discussing anything, you just want to score points.

From now on, I will treat your “questions” as purely rhetorical devices.

maxblues said :

IrishPete said :

breda said :

Self reporting = junk science.

how else would you research this, or would you just not bother?

IP

Sodium pentathol and water-boarding?

yep, good idea. Might require Rendition to places where it is legal.

IP

maybe they are so the Labor party doesn’t start legislating what family meals we can eat.

IrishPete said :

breda said :

Self reporting = junk science.

how else would you research this, or would you just not bother?

IP

Sodium pentathol and water-boarding?

how else would you research this, or would you just not bother?

IP
————————————-
Good question.

In fact, researching what people actually do in their private lives is very difficult, because as I said, self-reporting is rubbish. Ask any GP.

If you want to find out what people eat, for example, you might record all the food that they buy at the supermarket for a start. But, short of asking them to keep a food diary, that gives you no information about who eats what, or what they buy elsewhere. And food diaries, while better than phone surveys, are essentially self-reporting. People lie because they know what the expected “correct” answer is, just as they lie to their GP about how much they smoke or drink or take illegal drugs.

Another method is to look at the supply side – such as analysing the demographics and frequency of customers at fast food outlets or purveyors of soft drinks, cakes and sweets. It’s expensive, and there are privacy issues, but it can be done in a limited way.

There are macro approaches to the supply issue too – such as compiling statistics on overall sales trends across a population.

But the bottom line is – it is fiendishly difficult to get good data on people’s personal habits when there is any kind of moral or political agenda involved. Lots of people are happy to be quite honest about the brand of soap powder they use, and this kind of market research is pretty straightforward. As soon as a topic comes loaded with judgements, the compilation of good data is highly problematic.

Which is why this survey is junk science. It not only is loaded with value judgements, it relies on self reporting which cannot be verified.

PS: I used to live in the Inner North. Now I live on the very Northern edge of town.

dtc said :

astrojax said :

Pitchka said :

dtc said :

My kids live in a smoke free house, do not eat chips (cooked or dried) once a week and dont drink any softdrinks or cordial. Very few of their friends regularly drink softdrinks or eat chips and I dont know any smokers with kids

But the kids are in primary school and under my control, more or less. I’m sure high school is different.

Are you posting form Nth Korea or China?

north canberra prob’ly .

Huh, yes. Inner North…guess my elitism was showing. And I freely confess to having an underlying bias based on no facts that the further away from the inner suburbs you get the worse children are fed. Certainly there are less than a handful of ‘overweight’ kids at my inner North primary school. But the hours spent talking about Minecraft suggests that electronic devices are well used.

I wonder if that is the same school that tells parent to keep their kids home with the slightest sniffle because they have children with “compromised immune systems”.

Not eating crap food ever doesn’t automatically mean your kids are healthier (nor superior, might I add). I reckon stressing too much about one’s diet will raise the risk of stroke or heart disease. Though the obsession with longevity these days puzzles me too…

I rarely meet fat kids in Canberra full stop. Perhaps because I don’t go to places where they like to forage, I admit.

BimboGeek said :

maxblues said :

Whilst TV surfing the other night, I caught a few seconds of an unidentified program which featured a ‘healthy’ donut. Just put avocado on the donut to produce an avocadonut.

Because if there’s one thing a doughnut needs, it’s more oil!!!

Just sounds like the waste of a perfectly avo to me.

Woolworths promotional vehicle Recipe To Riches has been won by chocolate-coated-popcorn! I believe the completion was decided by sales, so someone must be eating this crap.

wildturkeycanoe said :

What parent who smokes in their own house who raises children, feeds them junk food regularly and doesn’t tell them “No” when asked for a drink of Coca-cola would bother to participate in a survey about kid’s health? Stats are biased, as the bogans haven’t been included in the sampling.

It was a random sample. Unless bogans don’t have home phones, or refused to take part, they were included.

IP

breda said :

Self reporting = junk science.

how else would you research this, or would you just not bother?

IP

Another household where the kids don’t drink softdrinks (they don’t like them) juice is a special treat. We don’t smoke, and fried potato products, well the closest would be roasted spuds with dinner. Chips (hot or cold) are again pretty rare.

What parent who smokes in their own house who raises children, feeds them junk food regularly and doesn’t tell them “No” when asked for a drink of Coca-cola would bother to participate in a survey about kid’s health? Stats are biased, as the bogans haven’t been included in the sampling.

Self reporting = junk science.

maxblues said :

Whilst TV surfing the other night, I caught a few seconds of an unidentified program which featured a ‘healthy’ donut. Just put avocado on the donut to produce an avocadonut.

Because if there’s one thing a doughnut needs, it’s more oil!!!

johnboy said :

One does wonder if there was considerable selection bias in the sample?

Response rate of 76% is OK, although it lacks detail on whether that was a 24% refusal rate or a 24% non-contact rate. If it was refusal, then the real response rate is much lower than 76% because there’s a whole swag of people who didn’t answer their phones. The use of landlines only is also a problem, a growing one as more and more people have mobiles only (not sure if VOIP would have bee included). So too is the age of the data, at up to 6 years old and a minimum of 3 years old.

This isn’t an issue of “lies, damned lies and statistics”. If there’s a problem, it’s measurement failure.

Representativeness could easily have been ascertained by comparing with relevant census data. I only had a quick scan of the report, but the word “representative” does not occur in it.

IP

My kids (under six) adore fruit, only get water and milk to drink with the occasional watered down juice, and eat a range of different cuisines, meats and vegetables. They love beans, legumes and fish.

They also like pancakes, cake, hot chips, and cheeseburgers, all of which we have occasionally.

While I absolutely think there is a need to put measures in place to encourage people to eat healthy and minimise junk food, I also think (some) people need to lighten up a bit….

maxblues said :

Whilst TV surfing the other night, I caught a few seconds of an unidentified program which featured a ‘healthy’ donut. Just put avocado on the donut to produce an avocadonut.

Audrey’s Kitchen?

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/audreys-kitchen/

Whilst TV surfing the other night, I caught a few seconds of an unidentified program which featured a ‘healthy’ donut. Just put avocado on the donut to produce an avocadonut.

Madam Cholet said :

maxblues said :

Madam Cholet said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Madam Cholet said :

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties?

It’s a party. For children.

If you want little Tarquin to eat carob and prunes, stay at home.

The reason kids are getting fat is that these things are not just for parties. They are now everyday foods and anyone who ladens the table at 10am with caramel slice for kids has no idea of appropriate food at any time.

Kids are not idiots. As someone said, if it’s not there, they don’t care. Kids can eat normal food. They don’t need to be fed chicken nuggets and chips at restaurants because they are incapable of tasting ‘adult food’.

We were in Young a few weeks ago and ate at the local RSL. The kids menu was chocablok with rubbish – I had to get ‘little tarquin’ something slightly more decent from the adult menu that he would eat – lasagne actually, and they still wanted to serve it with chips.

THIS IS WHY KIDS ARE GETTING FAT. Because mummies and daddies are letting little Tarquin eat crap.

Come now, Madame you have previously admitted taking the kids to McDonalds and getting salmonella poisoning from a sausage sizzle whilst pregnant, please don’t pontificate on healthy eating habits.

I said I had salmonella poisoning – but not from a sausage sizzle. Who knows what it was from – badly handled food, but not necessarily badly handled crappy food.

Master Cholet (he’s an only child), has been to McDonalds, and at the age of 5 has only just worked out it’s a food joint. That could be a world record. Hand on heart, he’s been less than five times and on some occasions within that five he has not eaten there – just played in the playground. He loves his food because he’s fit and healthy and participates in a number of sports, not because he’s addicted to junk. His favourite food right now for some reason is watermelon covered in yoghurt.

But sometimes, for instance, on the road to Sydney, these places are the only places to stop if you have not had time to pre-prpare food as we usually do. It’s not great food, but if it’s once or twice a year (as it is in our case), it’s not that bad. Parties at this stage of his life come up every few weeks, sometimes every week. That’s when it gets difficult.

Fark me, if you are not a contender for mother of the year, then i dont know who is.. (feel free to change the word mother to bullsh*t artist at your discretion).

Madam Cholet said :

maxblues said :

Madam Cholet said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Madam Cholet said :

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties?

It’s a party. For children.

If you want little Tarquin to eat carob and prunes, stay at home.

The reason kids are getting fat is that these things are not just for parties. They are now everyday foods and anyone who ladens the table at 10am with caramel slice for kids has no idea of appropriate food at any time.

Kids are not idiots. As someone said, if it’s not there, they don’t care. Kids can eat normal food. They don’t need to be fed chicken nuggets and chips at restaurants because they are incapable of tasting ‘adult food’.

We were in Young a few weeks ago and ate at the local RSL. The kids menu was chocablok with rubbish – I had to get ‘little tarquin’ something slightly more decent from the adult menu that he would eat – lasagne actually, and they still wanted to serve it with chips.

THIS IS WHY KIDS ARE GETTING FAT. Because mummies and daddies are letting little Tarquin eat crap.

Come now, Madame you have previously admitted taking the kids to McDonalds and getting salmonella poisoning from a sausage sizzle whilst pregnant, please don’t pontificate on healthy eating habits.

I said I had salmonella poisoning – but not from a sausage sizzle. Who knows what it was from – badly handled food, but not necessarily badly handled crappy food.

Master Cholet (he’s an only child), has been to McDonalds, and at the age of 5 has only just worked out it’s a food joint. That could be a world record. Hand on heart, he’s been less than five times and on some occasions within that five he has not eaten there – just played in the playground. He loves his food because he’s fit and healthy and participates in a number of sports, not because he’s addicted to junk. His favourite food right now for some reason is watermelon covered in yoghurt.

But sometimes, for instance, on the road to Sydney, these places are the only places to stop if you have not had time to pre-prpare food as we usually do. It’s not great food, but if it’s once or twice a year (as it is in our case), it’s not that bad. Parties at this stage of his life come up every few weeks, sometimes every week. That’s when it gets difficult.

Fair enough, I just hope you are not one these cruel child abusers who takes their child to McDonalds but only lets them eat the salad. Just as an aside, have Julia Gillard and Ronald McDonald ever been seen in the same place?

maxblues said :

Madam Cholet said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Madam Cholet said :

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties?

It’s a party. For children.

If you want little Tarquin to eat carob and prunes, stay at home.

The reason kids are getting fat is that these things are not just for parties. They are now everyday foods and anyone who ladens the table at 10am with caramel slice for kids has no idea of appropriate food at any time.

Kids are not idiots. As someone said, if it’s not there, they don’t care. Kids can eat normal food. They don’t need to be fed chicken nuggets and chips at restaurants because they are incapable of tasting ‘adult food’.

We were in Young a few weeks ago and ate at the local RSL. The kids menu was chocablok with rubbish – I had to get ‘little tarquin’ something slightly more decent from the adult menu that he would eat – lasagne actually, and they still wanted to serve it with chips.

THIS IS WHY KIDS ARE GETTING FAT. Because mummies and daddies are letting little Tarquin eat crap.

Come now, Madame you have previously admitted taking the kids to McDonalds and getting salmonella poisoning from a sausage sizzle whilst pregnant, please don’t pontificate on healthy eating habits.

I said I had salmonella poisoning – but not from a sausage sizzle. Who knows what it was from – badly handled food, but not necessarily badly handled crappy food.

Master Cholet (he’s an only child), has been to McDonalds, and at the age of 5 has only just worked out it’s a food joint. That could be a world record. Hand on heart, he’s been less than five times and on some occasions within that five he has not eaten there – just played in the playground. He loves his food because he’s fit and healthy and participates in a number of sports, not because he’s addicted to junk. His favourite food right now for some reason is watermelon covered in yoghurt.

But sometimes, for instance, on the road to Sydney, these places are the only places to stop if you have not had time to pre-prpare food as we usually do. It’s not great food, but if it’s once or twice a year (as it is in our case), it’s not that bad. Parties at this stage of his life come up every few weeks, sometimes every week. That’s when it gets difficult.

Madam Cholet said :

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Madam Cholet said :

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties?

It’s a party. For children.

If you want little Tarquin to eat carob and prunes, stay at home.

The reason kids are getting fat is that these things are not just for parties. They are now everyday foods and anyone who ladens the table at 10am with caramel slice for kids has no idea of appropriate food at any time.

Kids are not idiots. As someone said, if it’s not there, they don’t care. Kids can eat normal food. They don’t need to be fed chicken nuggets and chips at restaurants because they are incapable of tasting ‘adult food’.

We were in Young a few weeks ago and ate at the local RSL. The kids menu was chocablok with rubbish – I had to get ‘little tarquin’ something slightly more decent from the adult menu that he would eat – lasagne actually, and they still wanted to serve it with chips.

THIS IS WHY KIDS ARE GETTING FAT. Because mummies and daddies are letting little Tarquin eat crap.

Come now, Madame you have previously admitted taking the kids to McDonalds and getting salmonella poisoning from a sausage sizzle whilst pregnant, please don’t pontificate on healthy eating habits.

Woody Mann-Caruso said :

Madam Cholet said :

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties?

It’s a party. For children.

If you want little Tarquin to eat carob and prunes, stay at home.

The reason kids are getting fat is that these things are not just for parties. They are now everyday foods and anyone who ladens the table at 10am with caramel slice for kids has no idea of appropriate food at any time.

Kids are not idiots. As someone said, if it’s not there, they don’t care. Kids can eat normal food. They don’t need to be fed chicken nuggets and chips at restaurants because they are incapable of tasting ‘adult food’.

We were in Young a few weeks ago and ate at the local RSL. The kids menu was chocablok with rubbish – I had to get ‘little tarquin’ something slightly more decent from the adult menu that he would eat – lasagne actually, and they still wanted to serve it with chips.

THIS IS WHY KIDS ARE GETTING FAT. Because mummies and daddies are letting little Tarquin eat crap.

Madam Cholet said :

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties?

It’s a party. For children.

If you want little Tarquin to eat carob and prunes, stay at home.

dtc said :

I have found that the ‘if its not in the house its not missed’ rule works. No soft drinks means no one ever wants one.

My kids, who are grown up now, never had soft drinks in the house when they were growing up, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen them drink one.

mmmmm…now i want that donut

i don’t have kids but i have a smoke-free house, only drink water but, alas, i probably have hot chips every 1-2 weeks (only human damn it!)

astrojax said :

Pitchka said :

dtc said :

My kids live in a smoke free house, do not eat chips (cooked or dried) once a week and dont drink any softdrinks or cordial. Very few of their friends regularly drink softdrinks or eat chips and I dont know any smokers with kids

But the kids are in primary school and under my control, more or less. I’m sure high school is different.

Are you posting form Nth Korea or China?

north canberra prob’ly .

Huh, yes. Inner North…guess my elitism was showing. And I freely confess to having an underlying bias based on no facts that the further away from the inner suburbs you get the worse children are fed. Certainly there are less than a handful of ‘overweight’ kids at my inner North primary school. But the hours spent talking about Minecraft suggests that electronic devices are well used.

I have found that the ‘if its not in the house its not missed’ rule works. No soft drinks means no one ever wants one.

There is no way that packets of chips are as healthy as mashed potato. there must be far more oil in the chips, and far less vitamins left in the frizzled up bits of potato. Flavoured chips have additives, and even the plain chips probably have something under the 5% rule.

Fresher food is always better.

sepi said :

Mine are the same – smoke free, juice free and rarely have chips. If you start them off like that they just don’t ask for junk.

I am guessing your kids are under 6. Come again when they’re in primary.

But I agree with DrKoresh. If you want to teach your kids to moderate themselves, you have to allow them access to this stuff. Same goes for TV and using electronic devices. We live in a world full of unhealthy temptations and kids are better taught young how to deal with that.

My child goes to school in the inner North and even there the fish and chips shop does good business at 3pm.

It is common for parents to lie when questioned about this stuff, even if it is anonymous.

Maybe parents are unsure if there are any ‘smoking around kids in the house’ rules and lie to not incriminate themselves?

Parents often fetishise “unhealthy” food, w bhich can do more to damage a child’s diet than offering them ‘bad food’ and educating them as to the health risk. Turning Maccy D’s into a forbidden fruit instead of telling them how bad it is and occasionally indulging their base desires is probably worse in the long run.

sepi said :

Mashed potato is way healthier than bags of chips. All it has is potato and milk and a bit of butter and kids are supposed to eat milk.

Bags of chips re full of all sorts of nasties. And a bad habit to boot.

[Picks up a bag of Smiths original thin crisps] Ingredients: Potatoes, Sunflower Oil, Salt

Anyway need to look beyond ingredients alone. Gi and GI load also important as they will affect blood sugar and insulin.

Average potato chips have a GI of 51 and a GI load of 12 according to Harvard Medical School.

Mashed potato has a GI of 87 and a GI load of 17

Bit hard to understand this stuff sometimes admittedly, for example things like sweet potato and quinoa are lower GI, but usually have a higher GI load than the things they may be used to substitute

Mashed potato is way healthier than bags of chips. All it has is potato and milk and a bit of butter and kids are supposed to eat milk.

Bags of chips re full of all sorts of nasties. And a bad habit to boot.

Kids parties are a different story – isn’t that the idea of ‘treat foods’ and ‘sometimes foods’ – you get to eat them at special events.

49% of children do not eat fried potato products once a week

It was actually hot fried potato products and the question mentioned hot chips, french fries, wedges or fried potatoes. Crisps would have been excluded.

More telling is the 89.3% of parents who reported their children’s health as good to excellent even though nearly 23% of children are overweight or obese, 77% did less than one hour of physical activity per day, and 46% used electronic media for more than 2 hours per day. Also from the report:

The ACTGHS asked parents to report on weights and heights of their
children. It is important to note that self-reporting of these measures can result in underestimates, in
particular, overweight and obesity. Generally, self-reported heights are significantly higher than
measured heights and self-reported weights are significantly lower than measured weights.

So yes, our kids are shorter, chubbier, and less healthy than parents pretend they are.

Perhaps supermarket sales statistics can be matched up with people’s claims about their “milk & water only” kids …

Fruit juice is of course a sugary drink …

astrojax said :

Pitchka said :

dtc said :

My kids live in a smoke free house, do not eat chips (cooked or dried) once a week and dont drink any softdrinks or cordial. Very few of their friends regularly drink softdrinks or eat chips and I dont know any smokers with kids

But the kids are in primary school and under my control, more or less. I’m sure high school is different.

Are you posting form Nth Korea or China?

north canberra prob’ly – mine are likewise. admittedly, one 18mths and one 4yrs, both eat healthily (oldest one’s favourite fruit is tomato, though apples compete) and he’ll generally go the fruit platter at parties before the sweets. any juice is well watered down, and anyway infrequent. and this seems pretty usuall for his cohort, from my experience.

but i’m not expecting this to continue into his teens… will do my best, of course, but peer pressure will no doubt play a role.

What is it with putting 10 tonnes of crap on the table at kids parties? And then sending them home with a bag of junk? I once turned up with then 3 year old to a party at 10am on a Sunday. On the table at that stage amongst other things was caramel slice, choc balls, cheezels…..and one tiny bowl of dried apple. I can tell you what the kids were eating, and it was not the apple!

I don’t believe this survey for a second.

Have you seen the business Sugar Station in Belconnen Mall?…I’m surprised the ACT Government hasn’t forced them to change their business name to Diabetes Depot.

Two kids 6 and under.
Smoke free house.
Kids don’t drink anything other than water, milk and V8 juice.
They might get Macca’s once a month when we are on the road. Otherwise no fried food.

Little kids shouldn’t be eating any of that crap, but as they get older having a few treats isn’t a problem. Lots of outside time helping in the garden and vigorous activity is important, I think.

It depends what they call a “smoke free” house. No smoking at all, or no smoking inside the house?

If it’s no smoking inside, the figures may not be as unrealistic as you might think, although I’m sure some pretty liberal interpretations of smoke free have been applied by some of the respondents.

HiddenDragon said :

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

Spot on, I think.

97% is plausible enough, I don’t know of many smokers who actually like their possession stinking of cigarette smoke anyway. Perhaps a better question is how many of them walk along with a young child in a pram, chugging on a cigarette and puffing clouds thinking that’s it’s magically outside and therefore ok?

Fried potato question is a bit loaded, I mean there’s no way mashed potato is any better for you, packed with carbs and processes in a way that increases the GI load.

Actually it is not that difficult to believe. Canberra has the highest gym membership in Australia and is the home of the Institute of Sport. There has been a strict “no junk food” policy in school canteens for a while and smoking is lower in Canberra than most other places.

If this survey had been conducted in Bogan Central (the western suburbs of Sydney) the results would have been totally different.

Mine are the same – smoke free, juice free and rarely have chips. If you start them off like that they just don’t ask for junk. Juice is frowned on now, and not allowed at school etc. Times have changed.

Last time i did one of these surveys I was really annoyed that giving the kids a milk arrowroot biscuit once a day to shut them up in the car qualified us as ‘regularly eating sweet treats’ the same as if we lived on ice cream and lollies.

Pitchka said :

dtc said :

My kids live in a smoke free house, do not eat chips (cooked or dried) once a week and dont drink any softdrinks or cordial. Very few of their friends regularly drink softdrinks or eat chips and I dont know any smokers with kids

But the kids are in primary school and under my control, more or less. I’m sure high school is different.

Are you posting form Nth Korea or China?

north canberra prob’ly – mine are likewise. admittedly, one 18mths and one 4yrs, both eat healthily (oldest one’s favourite fruit is tomato, though apples compete) and he’ll generally go the fruit platter at parties before the sweets. any juice is well watered down, and anyway infrequent. and this seems pretty usuall for his cohort, from my experience.

but i’m not expecting this to continue into his teens… will do my best, of course, but peer pressure will no doubt play a role.

dtc said :

My kids live in a smoke free house, do not eat chips (cooked or dried) once a week and dont drink any softdrinks or cordial. Very few of their friends regularly drink softdrinks or eat chips and I dont know any smokers with kids

But the kids are in primary school and under my control, more or less. I’m sure high school is different.

Are you posting form Nth Korea or China?

My kids live in a smoke free house, do not eat chips (cooked or dried) once a week and dont drink any softdrinks or cordial. Very few of their friends regularly drink softdrinks or eat chips and I dont know any smokers with kids

But the kids are in primary school and under my control, more or less. I’m sure high school is different.

Also, considerable chocolate and ice cream is regularly consumed by all household members.

Lies, damned lies and statistics. Sounds like a wonderful starting point for “evidence-based” policy development.