So Gungahlinistes, enjoying your NBN?

johnboy 1 February 2013 68

Apparently the National Broadband Network got turned on in Gungahlin this morning.

Anyone on it wanting to share how joyful your life now is?


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68 Responses to So Gungahlinistes, enjoying your NBN?
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Grrrr Grrrr 3:36 pm 06 Feb 13

So, if anyone is reading this thread hoping for an answer to the question posed by johnboy rather than the furious verbal masturbation on the politics of the NBN here … well, head on over to the NBN Gungahlin thread on Whirlpool where there are actual reports on recent connections:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1483200&p=-1&#bottom

pink little birdie pink little birdie 4:30 pm 05 Feb 13

Chop71 said :

pink little birdie said :

If the Liberals get in and decide to go with fibre to node. Does anyone else think that there will be premium paid for Fibre to house properties that were done before the Liberal government?

Will it make all that much of a difference? If you’re getting 10 times the speed then yeah you might find a person out there willing to pay a premium but I would suggest your telco will suck up the profit margin (in higher fees) before the end user gets to see it in property prices.

It might in the future not now probably not for 10 years or so. But if you were buying a house and there were 2 in neighbouring suburbs, all other things being equal, one with fibre to house and other with fibre to node would it be something people made decisions on?

Chop71 Chop71 4:03 pm 05 Feb 13

pink little birdie said :

If the Liberals get in and decide to go with fibre to node. Does anyone else think that there will be premium paid for Fibre to house properties that were done before the Liberal government?

Will it make all that much of a difference? If you’re getting 10 times the speed then yeah you might find a person out there willing to pay a premium but I would suggest your telco will suck up the profit margin (in higher fees) before the end user gets to see it in property prices.

pink little birdie pink little birdie 3:53 pm 05 Feb 13

If the Liberals get in and decide to go with fibre to node. Does anyone else think that there will be premium paid for Fibre to house properties that were done before the Liberal government?

goody658 goody658 9:36 am 04 Feb 13

Muttsybignuts said :

Just looking at the coverage map on the NBN website, it interestingly shows Gungahlin, West MacGregor and what appears to be a single entity Mandir Ashram in Mawson. What is Mandir Ashram and why does it get NBN?

Its a aged care facility I think, old peeps need the faster speeds for online bingo 🙂

Muttsybignuts Muttsybignuts 9:47 pm 03 Feb 13

Just looking at the coverage map on the NBN website, it interestingly shows Gungahlin, West MacGregor and what appears to be a single entity Mandir Ashram in Mawson. What is Mandir Ashram and why does it get NBN?

vg vg 4:41 pm 03 Feb 13

gazket said :

NBN will be all good until there is a blackout. then it’s useless.

As will your desktop computer or uncharged laptop, Einstein

NBNmyths NBNmyths 3:38 pm 03 Feb 13

rosscoact said :

2604 said :

The projections were that NBN would generate a 7% return on investment if its subscriber targets were met. That’s just over one percent above the long-term bond rate. As we all know, the subscriber targets have not been met. The government never instructed NBN Co to meet a 7% ROI, or any ROI target at all. Also, NBN has confirmed that it sets its pricing to meet the market (ie to be close to the cost of an ADSL or other broadband connection), rather than setting its pricing to recoup the costs of building the network.

.

7% compounding gives 100% payback in 10 years which is far better than any other infrastructure investment.

It’s subscriber targets are actually about what they predicted. But those subscribers are choosing high plans than predicted. Gievn that the copper will be switched off 18 months after the NBN goes though, takeup rate is rather moot anyway.

NBN assumed a 8% takeup of 100/40, but they have achieved almost 50%. That means their Average Revenue Per User is far higher than predicted (They sell 12/1 for $24/month, and 100/40 for $37/month).

Only the 12/1 speed is set to “meet the market”. Overall, the NBN’s pricing is set to provide the return target of “bond rate+3%”. The Australian long term bond rate is currently 3.4%, so a 7% return is obviously more than the “1% above the bond rate” you claimed.

NBNmyths NBNmyths 3:26 pm 03 Feb 13

Solidarity said :

There are no plans for light users, I want to pay $20 a month or less for enough data to browse a few pages here and there, unfortunately they’re all megapseed 200GB plans for $70 a month. I don’t want to pay that.

You’ll never get a sub-$20 plan on any fixed communications network in Australia. Even on ADSL the cheapest you can get is about $50/month by the time you get either phone+adsl or naked ADSL.

But as a few others have written, it’s just not true that you have to spend $70/month on the NBN.

Exetel have 50GB/month for $35 at 12/1 or $40 at 25/5.

Pennytel have unlimited 12/1 for $36/month or unlimited at 25/5 for $45/month.
https://www.pennytel.com.au/penny-broadband/nbn-deals#nbn-naked

That’s about 30% less than the cheapest ADSL2+ out there. Hard to complain, I would have thought.

rosscoact rosscoact 1:18 pm 03 Feb 13

2604 said :

Funding Gonski , while a valuable thing we should aim to do, isn’t the same type of spending. Government debt to fund education or health doesn’t come with a cash return to pay off that investment.

The projections were that NBN would generate a 7% return on investment if its subscriber targets were met. That’s just over one percent above the long-term bond rate. As we all know, the subscriber targets have not been met. The government never instructed NBN Co to meet a 7% ROI, or any ROI target at all. Also, NBN has confirmed that it sets its pricing to meet the market (ie to be close to the cost of an ADSL or other broadband connection), rather than setting its pricing to recoup the costs of building the network.

.

7% compounding gives 100% payback in 10 years which is far better than any other infrastructure investment.

thatsnotme thatsnotme 10:55 am 03 Feb 13

2604 said :

You make it sound like gold-plating is always the way to go with infrastructure. But there have been literally dozens of instances through time of over-investment in infrastructure – from canals to railways to the Concorde to TransACT in the ACT – where either the demand wasn’t there or the technology in question was rapidly superseded. Most relevantly, there was a glut of undersea data cables laid in the late 1990s which were huge loss-makers and that capacity only started getting soaked up when hundreds of millions of people in China and South East Asia started accessing the internet.

I don’t see anyone arguing for a dual carriageway between Perth and Adelaide, even though it would make the driving experience that much better. The demand isn’t there and there are more convenient alternatives. Likewise, it makes no sense to build the NBN if the capacity is unlikely to get used up and if the evidence is that people will choose alternative technologies. Even if (as you argue) ADSL gets maxed out in ten years’ time, mobile broadband is getting faster and better all the time and with the proliferation of mobile devices, is surely the way most people will choose to access the internet in the future.

Oh god, not the mobile broadband argument again… If everyone chooses to move to a purely mobile broadband future, you can look forward to either towers from horizon to horizon, or speeds that would make it virtually useless.

If you want to truly understand this, read through this article:

http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2012/06/14/3524848.htm

It’s based on a Cisco report that monitors data usage over time, and makes predictions for the future. It’s proved to be reliable in the past, if anything on the conservative side.

One key prediction, is that between 2011 and 1016, our mobile broadband demands will increase 18-fold.

General IP traffic (ie, all traffic regardless of how it’s delivered) will increase 4-fold over the same period.

I don’t think it’s fair, or accurate, to describe the build method of the NBN as ‘Gold Plating’. Gold plating in the electricity industry is referring to an overspend on infrastructure to be able to manage the extreme peaks reliably. Given data trends globally and overseas, the capabilities and capacity of the NBN is going to be what is required to service our normal needs – let alone any extreme peaks.

2604 2604 10:49 am 03 Feb 13

Jethro said :

2604 said :

Gungahlin Al said :

The precious irony of these words and your nom de plume…

I think Steveu is spot on, and you sir/madam should read and apply your handle. We’ll soon wonder how it could ever have been doubted. But alas, it is often the way when a topic gets caught up in political spinning…

I love how any criticism of the government building the NBN is dismissed as narrow-mindedness brought about by a Liberal scare campaign, rather than the result of critical thinking about what the government is trying to achieve with the NBN and whether there are better ways of going about it.

OYM is absolutely right. Existing download speeds are fine for probably 95% of users. The slow take-up of NBN services reflects this. The remaining 5% are outliers who should locate their enterprises where existing high-speed services exist, until alternatives such as wireless broadband catch up.

Spending $36 billion to service the needs of such a small proportion of the population is insanity and has a huge opportunity cost. We could fund Gonski and the NDIS with that much money, with enough left over to build enough transport infrastructure to provide productivity benefits that would make any productivity improvements from the NBN pale into insignificance.

I don’t think you understand how the NBN is being funded. The government will borrow money to build the infrastructure. This loan will be paid off over the course of a few decades. The yearly repayments (principle plus interest) come from the revenue received through user payments. Projections are that these will be enough to pay back the loan and generate some return on top of that. In effect, if NBN subscriptions meet projections, it won’t actually cost taxpayers a cent. The big caveat of course is whether revenue meets projections. nonetheless, when the NBN is paid off the government will own a multi-billion dollar asset. Not to mention the productivity gains and opportunities for new businesses and industries.

Funding Gonski , while a valuable thing we should aim to do, isn’t the same type of spending. Government debt to fund education or health doesn’t come with a cash return to pay off that investment.

The projections were that NBN would generate a 7% return on investment if its subscriber targets were met. That’s just over one percent above the long-term bond rate. As we all know, the subscriber targets have not been met. The government never instructed NBN Co to meet a 7% ROI, or any ROI target at all. Also, NBN has confirmed that it sets its pricing to meet the market (ie to be close to the cost of an ADSL or other broadband connection), rather than setting its pricing to recoup the costs of building the network.

Gonski funding should improve education levels – at least that’s what your former AEU colleagues would have us believe – which should result in more educated, better-earning citizens paying higher taxes to the government.

Golden-Alpine Golden-Alpine 10:38 am 03 Feb 13

Jethro said :

2604 said :

Gungahlin Al said :

The precious irony of these words and your nom de plume…

I think Steveu is spot on, and you sir/madam should read and apply your handle. We’ll soon wonder how it could ever have been doubted. But alas, it is often the way when a topic gets caught up in political spinning…

I love how any criticism of the government building the NBN is dismissed as narrow-mindedness brought about by a Liberal scare campaign, rather than the result of critical thinking about what the government is trying to achieve with the NBN and whether there are better ways of going about it.

OYM is absolutely right. Existing download speeds are fine for probably 95% of users. The slow take-up of NBN services reflects this. The remaining 5% are outliers who should locate their enterprises where existing high-speed services exist, until alternatives such as wireless broadband catch up.

Spending $36 billion to service the needs of such a small proportion of the population is insanity and has a huge opportunity cost. We could fund Gonski and the NDIS with that much money, with enough left over to build enough transport infrastructure to provide productivity benefits that would make any productivity improvements from the NBN pale into insignificance.

I don’t think you understand how the NBN is being funded. The government will borrow money to build the infrastructure. This loan will be paid off over the course of a few decades. The yearly repayments (principle plus interest) come from the revenue received through user payments. Projections are that these will be enough to pay back the loan and generate some return on top of that. In effect, if NBN subscriptions meet projections, it won’t actually cost taxpayers a cent. The big caveat of course is whether revenue meets projections. nonetheless, when the NBN is paid off the government will own a multi-billion dollar asset. Not to mention the productivity gains and opportunities for new businesses and industries.

Funding Gonski , while a valuable thing we should aim to do, isn’t the same type of spending. Government debt to fund education or health doesn’t come with a cash return to pay off that investment.

Whilst I understand where you are coming from in regards to the income from NBN can go directly to paying off it’s debt. However funding Gonski is an investment for the Government, well future Governments. The better educated we are as a nation the higher the output we can contribute to the nation. We can find further efficiencies, develop new and exciting technologies and back on topic develop new industries that are supported by the NBN. All of this means more dollars for all and more tax dollars for the Government. I for one am happy to pay for the NBN rollout for future growth and am happy to pay for Gonski for future growth.

Golden-Alpine Golden-Alpine 10:28 am 03 Feb 13

Gungahlin Al said :

Fair ’nuff Mothy. Winding back.

Solidarity: Nicholls is hooked to the Hall exchange I believe, rather than the Crace one the rest of us are through. I don’t recall what the issue was with Hall, but there are delays, as mentioned by NBN Co at a recent GCC meeting.

Guess Casey was on the cusp of development – too soon to NBN to be bothered with Transact (like Crace has). Ultimately it will all be done and worth the wait – being still way ahead of most of the rest of the country.

The Springbank Rise side of Casey is TransACT, the other side copper.

Golden-Alpine Golden-Alpine 10:26 am 03 Feb 13

Postalgeek said :

gazket said :

NBN will be all good until there is a blackout. then it’s useless.

Well spotted. That’s why I’ve never bought into all that other crap like lights, fridge, TV, heater, hot water system, router, computer, mixer, and power tools. Exactly the same design flaw. I don’t know how they get away with it!

gazket said :

NBN will be all good until there is a blackout. then it’s useless.

Are you saying you have a UPS set up on your current modem? What happens when you have a blackout now?

Except with NBN they provide you with a UPS to keep your modem powered up for a short time period.

Golden-Alpine Golden-Alpine 10:23 am 03 Feb 13

Solidarity said :

Aaand looks like Casey doesn’t get it now or anytime soon anyway

Guess i’ll quit my yammerin’

Springbank Rise is wired with FTTH with TransACT exactly the same speeds available as NBN. You may struggle with a wireless internet service other than Telstra there too. Just sign up with TransACT and get on the information Autobahn.

2604 2604 10:59 pm 02 Feb 13

Ozi said :

Look, that’s fine if you don’t understand how infrastructure works, or have any concept of the patterns writ large in computer tech history over the last 50 or so years.

However, for the rest of us, it is fairly straightforward. Imagine a highway: instead of building one lane each way to meet the current traffic needs and then, at considerable cost, adding an extra lane each way in ten years time when traffic volume increases, you INVEST in a four lane highway from the outset. Higher initial cost, but it means you don’t need to go and duplicate it down the road.

In much the same way, I agree that at the moment 95% of people are happy with ADSL speeds. However, I very much doubt that when there are more people using far more data heavy products in ten years that ADSL will cut it. In fact, I’m sure that in even 5 years time the existing copper will be unable to handle the load.

You make it sound like gold-plating is always the way to go with infrastructure. But there have been literally dozens of instances through time of over-investment in infrastructure – from canals to railways to the Concorde to TransACT in the ACT – where either the demand wasn’t there or the technology in question was rapidly superseded. Most relevantly, there was a glut of undersea data cables laid in the late 1990s which were huge loss-makers and that capacity only started getting soaked up when hundreds of millions of people in China and South East Asia started accessing the internet.

I don’t see anyone arguing for a dual carriageway between Perth and Adelaide, even though it would make the driving experience that much better. The demand isn’t there and there are more convenient alternatives. Likewise, it makes no sense to build the NBN if the capacity is unlikely to get used up and if the evidence is that people will choose alternative technologies. Even if (as you argue) ADSL gets maxed out in ten years’ time, mobile broadband is getting faster and better all the time and with the proliferation of mobile devices, is surely the way most people will choose to access the internet in the future.

Jethro Jethro 9:22 pm 02 Feb 13

2604 said :

Gungahlin Al said :

The precious irony of these words and your nom de plume…

I think Steveu is spot on, and you sir/madam should read and apply your handle. We’ll soon wonder how it could ever have been doubted. But alas, it is often the way when a topic gets caught up in political spinning…

I love how any criticism of the government building the NBN is dismissed as narrow-mindedness brought about by a Liberal scare campaign, rather than the result of critical thinking about what the government is trying to achieve with the NBN and whether there are better ways of going about it.

OYM is absolutely right. Existing download speeds are fine for probably 95% of users. The slow take-up of NBN services reflects this. The remaining 5% are outliers who should locate their enterprises where existing high-speed services exist, until alternatives such as wireless broadband catch up.

Spending $36 billion to service the needs of such a small proportion of the population is insanity and has a huge opportunity cost. We could fund Gonski and the NDIS with that much money, with enough left over to build enough transport infrastructure to provide productivity benefits that would make any productivity improvements from the NBN pale into insignificance.

I don’t think you understand how the NBN is being funded. The government will borrow money to build the infrastructure. This loan will be paid off over the course of a few decades. The yearly repayments (principle plus interest) come from the revenue received through user payments. Projections are that these will be enough to pay back the loan and generate some return on top of that. In effect, if NBN subscriptions meet projections, it won’t actually cost taxpayers a cent. The big caveat of course is whether revenue meets projections. nonetheless, when the NBN is paid off the government will own a multi-billion dollar asset. Not to mention the productivity gains and opportunities for new businesses and industries.

Funding Gonski , while a valuable thing we should aim to do, isn’t the same type of spending. Government debt to fund education or health doesn’t come with a cash return to pay off that investment.

steveu steveu 9:20 pm 02 Feb 13

Ozi said :

However, for the rest of us, it is fairly straightforward. Imagine a highway: instead of building one lane each way to meet the current traffic needs…..

…In fact, I’m sure that in even 5 years time the existing copper will be unable to handle the load.

Traffic needs – can’t even imagine what they will be. But they will grow exponentially I would expect. Anyone counted how many Internet connected devices you have in the home? We have heaps, can only expect this to increase.

I think that for the better part of a decade and a half Telstra has neglected its copper network, that was laid well before I was born (I suspect this will beqcome more and more apparent as the NBN starts using the telstra conduits that we paid handsomely for). It makes sense to upgrade the infrastructure and replace the copper anyway.

Doing it properly the first time around, and thinking for the future makes sense.

As for illegal uses that ppl may use the NBN for (eg. Movie downloads) I suspect it will be moot point anyway as streaming services from overseas become more predominantly used, and people avoid the “Australia tax”, and start (reasonably legitimately) using paid services for entertainment.

I’m glad my friends in gunghalin are getting some reprieve from the RIM city Telstra built out there.

Postalgeek Postalgeek 7:42 pm 02 Feb 13

gazket said :

NBN will be all good until there is a blackout. then it’s useless.

Well spotted. That’s why I’ve never bought into all that other crap like lights, fridge, TV, heater, hot water system, router, computer, mixer, and power tools. Exactly the same design flaw. I don’t know how they get away with it!

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