Two boys and a pissing contest

Vic, keep “your” money.

I teach because I love the job and love to educate. Your argument that it’s all about the money is bullshit.

I work 38hrs paid and another 22hrs unpaid a week. I teach 7 classes – 2 more than Govt and 1 more than most Non-Govt schools. That’s 200 students and I know all their names, their learning styles and their abilities.

Do you want me to start “claiming” for unpaid work or just give me more than CPI?

It would save you money.

Answer me this, if you think teaching is such an easy profession for “great” pay, why aren’t you a teacher?

4% per annum is more than inflation is running at – someone care to correct me?

So why are they (and some of you) NOT “Greedy teachers”?

Did you join this profession to make money, or to educate our young-uns?

Answer me that. You sup off my taxes. Why are you entitled to more than CPI than anyone else who sups off my taxes?

I “naively” supported Clive until he personally attacked me over an issue (more like a question) I raised last EBA.

He also signed off on that EBA and then “advised” certain staff not to adhere to one section of it when it was necessary to address an issue in the workplace.

Yes, he’s so defendable.

I’m a young teacher and I know that the extra %1 p.a. pay rise given to the older teachers now will be my pay rise if I stay in the profession a little bit longer. I fully support Clive.

…also important to note, AEU is seeking 12% (over 3 yrs) across the board – for all teaching staff… not 12% for ‘experienced teachers’ (top of level 1 scale) and 9% for ‘beginning teachers’ (bottom) – which was ACT Govt’s last “offer”…

Nyssa “my opinion of my dealings with him are just that” – i absolutely agree 🙂 100% entitled to your opinion (I wasn’t decrying that, honest). Union is a system, and like every system not perfect for everyone (I was as affected by last 2 EBAs as you – being a newbie teacher myself). but it *IS* it’s members, not Clive and the exec. 😉

The majority just gets to look after themselves… That’s pure democracy 😉 and one day – we’ll be the oldies… heh heh heh (but not too soon I hope). I’m sorry you have a personal beef with Clive, but I know he enjoys majority support – and I’ll feel free to defend him thanks.

Thumper: no insult meant (check spelling and emoticon) – peace dude 🙂

Al: How could you be related to a teacher or two and still think teachers get 12 weeks holiday a year (is *THAT* what you were trying to say? – I may have missunderstood); they are not doing their job if they get 12 weeks holidays (and any teacher would tell you the same).

oh, & any teacher who was not signed on by 1230 after the industrial actions this year was docked pay! (as per WorkChoices) …and at every school, the Playground Duty was still in effect for lunchtimes! All non-union members would have been at work until then and all union members back as of then…

so, have I missunderstood your point, or are you simply wrong?

BTW: most teachers don’t think that strike action is the best action, but what other option do we have if we are to keep our education system the best in Aust (and don’t we deserve that) with teachers paid equal to those in other states?

GB, no sorry.

Put in imput, went to all the meetings (at school and out of school hours), dealt with Clive and got a childish response.

Then there was something else – protecting older teachers.

I approached him as a union member, with a concern and wasn’t rude. He came back as a childish twit. He doesn’t like people who ask questions.

And I am not the only teacher to think so.

Don’t defend Clive. My opinion of my dealings with him are just that.

GB re: “Al – you are full of garbage!”
Spouse works in school – has for years. Father in law is a teacher too. And I know what my own eyes see.
And let me throw this quote in from a teacher friend: “I worked out the savings I make on childcare during all the extra holidays we get – I’d have to get paid $120,000 in another job to equal it.”

I’m also wondering if Mr Barr is “Moved” yet…

I am most certainly a younger teacher, and AEU member too – and I support Clive and the AEU executive. If you feel he doesn’t represent you, there could only be two reasons:
1. you were outvoted by the majority
2. you had little input to the decision-making process through your sub-branch,

The AEU is definitely the most democratic method we have to negotiate with our Government on pay and conditions. Clive is responsible to the membership, and doesn’t simply ‘decide’ to do things – the membership (or it’s executive) does. If you think he is “more concerned with the welfare of older teachers than younger ones”, well, they make up the majority of the workforce and have more personally invested in the outcomes of negotiations.

The AEU sub-branch at your (last Govt.) school was YOUR way of contributing. If you want to blame someone – blame those that worked on either side of you in the public system you chose to leave – not “the messenger”. Oh, and if you didn’t contribute – Don’t whinge…

On the personal stuff – that’s YOUR own beef. I would however ask how YOU approached Clive? I’ve never known him to be like that.

Those of you that don’t like “strikes” – anyone want to suggest a better form of ‘negotiation’ with a Govt. that refuses to (they haven’t listened to any other approach)? Especially with “WorkChoices” now in place?

Thumper: “Clive Haggar is a shiftly looking dude….” – what a stooooopid comment. ;-P

He also acts like a child (with childish insults) if you disagree with him.

Plus, I have other reasons to despise him, which I won’t put up here. But lets just say he is more concerned with the welfare of older teachers than younger ones.

Clive Haggar has the support from the majority of teachers because the majority are over 45yo. He doesn’t care about retaining younger teachers because if he did he would have been working for it 2 EBAs ago.

Also, you don’t see the majority getting 9%. No, that would be rude. Just make the younger teachers – who leave within the first 3-5yrs of teaching (before they “hit” the stage for 12%) – a shitty offer and no one will argue as they are in the minority.

WorkChoices leaves limited options for industrial action – part-day is about the least harmful to the community.

ACT govt. has been extremely arrogant and underhanded in all dealings with AEU (which is negotiating the EBA on behalf of teachers – as MOST are members, inc. 100% of Principals). Original ‘offer’ made only after last EBA expired. Offered an EBA it knew would be rejected. Used stall-tactics in order to get the ‘agreement’ enshrined in the legislative instrument of a budget. Told the media of latest offers before the AEU (ie members)…

“Greedy teachers” and “Greedy Unions” – WTF!!! – AEU is asking only for what every other state (independent AND public) teachers have received. ACT teachers were asked to make 11% ‘productivity offsets’ in order to secure 12% pay rise – a REAL increase of only 1% (other states – no ‘productivity offsets’). ACT Govt went and made those ‘productivity offsets anyhow – assuming their worthless agreement would be accepted. BTW – every other offer has been a re-hash of the original (or worse).

Also – Clive Haggar enjoys majority support from AEU members.

Get used to industrial action in the ACT, the bus drivers, nurses and then the ACT public service will have the same ‘offers’ from the ACT Govt. over next few months – teachers were just first in line for ‘negotiation’…

Al – you are full of garbage! Teachers have been back on the job by 1230pm on EVERY occasion (or their pay would have been docked another 4 hrs!). And don’t get me started on that crap about teachers leaving after the bell. You go see what teachers ACTUALLY do B4 you bring that crap up. Most of us take work home to do of an evening (marking, prep etc). Go stand in the carpark of your local school, see what time it empties – and look what teachers go home with in their arms!!! I have not left work B4 4.30pm most of this year (unless to attend appointment/meeting) and am normally in before 815am to prep. Most of us do not get lunch breaks either! And don’t get me started on Parent/Teacher, School Open nights, Faculty Open Nights etc…

Vic, look at the AEU.

I refused to vote for a strike (still AEU member – for about 5 more minutes) because I don’t believe in it and because I’m on LWOP this year.

Then also look at the Minister. More work (programming, timetabling, assessment, reports), more initiatives (new curriculum, Federal initiatives – CCE), larger classroom sizes, less time for one on one ETC.

Andrew, I know a few that got 4yr placements and I’m still unattached to a Govt school after 5 yrs. They must think I can “hack it” better than a newbie, especially in the Southern Tuggers area.

4 strikes in 4 weeks, but only 2 of which will affect any one school. One for everyone, and one for each electorate.

I don’t think it is unfair to ask for a CPI increase.

I know a number of new teachers from last year that were given “Outstanding” but only given contracts.

Greedy teachers. Strike all you like, enjoy your docked pays. I’m with Govco on this one.

JTK if she got outstanding, she should have been offered permanency.

Did she?

4 strikes in 4 weeks?

thats so not cool. like, i have assessment on three of those weeks, which i’m going to miss out on now, and I’m pretty sure theres more people in the same boat as me.

Not sure if the Ginanderra one will affect me, but all others will.

Im trying to finish year 12, So one day there is my clearances, the other is in Test week FFS!

Stupid Fucking government….I am trying to finish school with a decent education.

Nyssa,

I understand where you are coming from. I *love* the crappy placement process that the department uses. My partner is a brand new teacher, and has just been rated as being “outstanding” or some other label like that, so we are waiting to see where (if) she will be placed. At least we know that she has a contract till the end of term. She could end up anywhere from Tugg to Gungahlin.

If an employer I was working for did that trick, and provided that little feedback on where the process was, I wouldn’t be there for very long. Just long enough to arrange the move out of there.

Also, if an employer of mine said I could get 3% as a raise, that simply means that it is below CPI, and that they clearly didn’t need my services.

Al, I don’t know which school you’re referring to but don’t tar ALL schools with that brush.

My children and will be affected too. Luckily for me I have arranged care as I still have to teach on those days.

Besides, blame the AEU and the Govt. The teachers aren’t the ones stuffing around. Hell, some of us don’t even know where we will be placed for Term 1, 2007.

Do you know where you’ll be? I sure as hell don’t.

It’s a bit hard to maintain sympathy for the teachers when the strikes are always in the morning, as opposed to the afternoon – when they go home earlier than the rest of us anyway. But what craps me most, is that when you take your kid there at 1pm for the afternoon, none of the teachers have bothered to turn up! What is this? Start work at 1pm and go straight to lunch? So of course no-one takes their kids for the arvo. So we can only claim a half day as carer leave, but end up having to take the rest of the day off on our own time so the poor kid isn’t one of only 3 people (kids and teachers combined) there all arvo.

Even though the money lost from striking is probably more than the extra pay rise the teachers are looking for… I understand it’s the princple of the matter, teachers are being offered less than CPI as an increase.

It is sad to see a Labor government which criticises (and rightly so) the new IR laws, and then uses them to their fullest to draw out the process of the teachers pay.

Thumper – I am thinking of the children – The ones getting an education, not the ones in Government.

I would love my kids to be able to look up to a teacher as somebody to learn from, as a pillar of the community. Not one of the lowly paid people who flip burgers at the Golden Arches.

Should be “don’t have to keep them”.

My bad.

Che, I’m a “youngish” teacher. I stated to Clive in the last EBA, when this happened before, that it was unwarranted and did nothing to retain new teachers.

I received a letter back – of a childish nature – abusing me for daring to ask why.

I’m not a union member anymore and I won’t be until Clive leaves.

The private system is just as bad re: discipline. The difference is, they don’t have to take them if they play up.

how do all the younger teachers feel getting done over in this deal by Haggar and his cronies?

Futto – Alternately, have a look at the private system – You may find that it is surprising affordable. Then the quality of education your kids receive won’t be held hostage by other parents who fail to contribute to the school. You will also find that the teachers are motivated, as they are not underpaid by the government.

I was sadened to hear that the strikes were simply not – ALL OUT! That way the govmit will notice.

Hey, the salary savings would probably be able to be used to pay for most of the outstanding voluntary contributions, so the kids will be able to have practical lessons when the action is over.

Remember – YOUR EMPLOYER IS HOSTILE – THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU – ASK FOR 10% THIS YEAR, FOLLOWED BY 10% NEXT YEAR AND THE YEAR AFTER…

Ask yourself what sort of people you want teaching your kids. Underpaid, stressed out types, or happy shiny people!
The unions are overboard, but I suppose they have to be with such a radical slash and burn government.

I’m so torn. I can’t stand greedy teacher unions but i also am very annoyed with this government and their petty B.S.

Which side should i defend? Who is right? Am I better off with one or the other?

I’m a DINK with kids a few years away so schools arnt really a focus at the moment.

Enterprise Bargaining Agreement.

Everyone would have read or heard on radio about the continuing saga

Erm, no. WTF is an EBA?