Why 130 km/h doesn’t make sense for the Hume

Sgt.Bungers 6 January 2012 41

A long winded counter arguement to Drive.com.au’s article regarding a 130 km/h speed limit for the Hume Highway, which was also featured in the Canberra Times. Only 1600 or so words, read on if interested 🙂

The issue of speed limits in Australia can get anyone going. Everyone has an opinion.

This was proven in a recent article by Drive, “Why 130 km/h makes sense for the Hume Highway”, when over 23,000 people voted in a poll for the article… 91% of whom voted that the speed limit on the Hume Highway should be at least 120 km/h.

My argument on this topic is a long one (TL;DR). The gist of it is this: Australian rural dual carriageways should not have a speed limit of 130 km/h. The handful of rural motorways (aka freeways) that we do have in Australia could have a speed limit of 130 km/h once we have median barriers along their entire length, but not before certain changes are made in our legal definitions of motorways and dual carriageways. Australian drivers also need to be properly taught the difference between a freeway and dual carriageway and the etiquette for each.

Above: An education campaign from the UK telling people what to do in case of breakdown on a high speed motorway. It is illegal to stop on motorways in the UK except for in an emergency. The same law applies on freeways in New South Wales, yet many Australians are oblivious to this.

Many of those who argue for 130 km/h or more on our rural dual carriageways are very quick to utter the words “Europe” or “Germany” or “Autobahn”. They’ll compare German Autobahns, Italy’s Autostrade’s or Spain’s Autopista’s to Australia’s rural dual carriageways… despite comparing European Motorways and Australian rural dual carriageways being like comparing apples and pumpkins.

Australia does not have very many motorways / freeways that meet international standards, far from it. In rural areas we have almost none at all. There is a common misconception that we do… not helped by the Victorian Government officially naming their upgraded Hume Highway, the Hume Freeway, when it’s only a Dual Carriageway. Not helped by all states in Australia implementing 110 km/h speed limits on rural dual carriageways, outback single carriageways, and 110 km/h rural freeways, further blurring the line between the very different classes of roads.

What’s the difference between our rural dual carriageways and Europe’s motorways?

Prior to implementing speeds as high as 130 km/h on the Hume Highway or any rural dual carriageways, we must do several things to upgrade them to international motorway standard. This requires:

  • Most Importantly: No at grade intersections or private entrances. This means no T intersections or cross roads. No give way signs or stop signs. Every intersection must comprise of a bridge (multiple grades) with on and off ramps.

    This is already the case on freeways in NSW, and the 80 km freeway portion of the Hume Highway from Berrima to the M7. Victoria however has named their portion of the Hume Highway, the Hume Freeway and given it the alpha numeric route marker of M31. Despite there being multiple at grade intersections along the Hume from Wodonga to Tallarook. Full access control is a critical component of a true motorway. To meet this requirement on the Hume will require massive amounts of investment from state and federal governments before we can safely operate vehicles at motorway speeds on the Hume Highway.

  • Many portions of New South Wales dual carriageways are originally single carriageway roads that have had a newer and better grade of carriageway built alongside, then been converted to one way traffic. Some of these sections are pushing having a 110 km/h speed limit in their current state, and would need to be demolished and rebuilt to current standards before a higher speed limit is considered.
  • Laws prohibiting slower vehicles on the higher speed roads would need to be legislated and enforced. Vehicles which are not able to comfortably maintain a 60 km/h average for example. Scooters, horse drawn vehicles, bicycles, tractors and pedestrians. Currently all of these are permitted to operate on much of the Hume Highway.
  • If such vehicles are prohibited, then access / service roads with lower speed limits must operate alongside or close the new motorway along its entire length. It would be a violation of basic human rights to prohibit a person from being able to get somewhere unless they had enough money to purchase a motor vehicle or bus ticket.
  • U-Turns are currently illegal on NSW motorways and freeways. The penalty for which is a mere few hundred dollars and 3 points, the same as performing an illegal U-Turn on a 50 km/h street. A motor vehicle operator performing an illegal U-Turn in 130 km/h traffic could easily result in a fatal crash. An education campaign about illegal U-Turns on motorways would be required, as well as increasing the penalty for such offences substantially.
  • Serious penalties and education campaigns against tailgating and other aggressive or intimidating behaviour. The level of tailgating on Australian rural dual carriageways at present is nothing short of disgusting. Tailgating at 130 km/h can easily result in huge pile ups.
  • A physical central median barrier along the entire length of a road should be implemented prior to a government being able to label that road a motorway / freeway. It is a basic requirement of preventing cross over, head on collisions. The majority of the Hume Highway does not have these barriers.
  • Australia does not have many motorways in rural areas

    The international definitions of motorways are as follows:

    Institute of Transportation Engineers. Freeway: This is a divided major roadway with full control of access and with no crossings at grade. This definition applies to toll as well as nontoll roads.

    Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development. Freeway: Road, specially designed and built for motor traffic, which does not serve properties bordering on it, and which:
    (a) is provided, except at special points or temporarily, with separate carriageways for the two directions of traffic, separated from each other, either by a dividing strip not intended for traffic, or exceptionally by other means;
    (b) does not cross at level with any road, railway or tramway track, or footpath;
    (c) is specially sign-posted as a motorway and is reserved for specific categories of road motor vehicles.

    British Standards. Motorway: Limited access dual carriageway road not crossed on the same level by other traffic lanes, for the exclusive use of certain classes of motor vehicles.

    Australian Standards: I’m yet to find one.

    Of the international standards that exist for motorways, the key point in all of them are “No Crossings at Grade”/”Does not cross at level with any road”“. As mentioned above, this means, absolutely no intersections where another vehicle may cross the carriageway in front of a vehicle approaching at high speed. No give way signs, no stop signs, no U-Turns, no private entrances no stopping is permitted at all. To be classified as a motorway or freeway, a road MUST have exit and entrance ramps only.

    This means that the Hume Highway, for over 600 km between Berrima NSW and Tallarook VIC is not a motorway, or a freeway by international standards. It is a dual carriageway, or expressway only.. A grade below being a motorway or freeway.

    International speed limits for rural dual carriageways are typically between 80 km/h and 120 km/h. At 110 km/h, our rural dual carriageway limits are at the higher end of the international scale.

    International speed limits for rural freeways are typically between 110 km/h and 130 km/h. So at 110 km/h, our rural freeways are at the lower end of the scale.

    No, our speed limits do not appear to make sense in their present state and are overdue for a review. However demands for 130 km/h on our dual carriageways in their current state are unrealistic and not well thought through.

    But what about the NT’s 130 km/h limits?

    The Northern Territory has unique highways. Good quality, single carriageway roads with incredibly sparse traffic. The population dentition of the Northern Territory is the lowest in Australia, and one of the lowest in the developed world at 0.17 people per square km. Compare that to New South Wales 9 people, or Victoria’s 24 people per square km.

    Speed limits in rural areas of the Northern Territory are a hot topic within the territory itself. Especially considering the year that rural speed limits were introduced (2007), saw their road toll jump by more than 30% compared to the previous year when they had no speed limits. However, that is a different subject for discussion.

    That said, the relatively crowded area of south eastern NSW and central Vic that the Hume Highway passes through, cannot be compared to the near deserted central Northern Territory by any means.

    Screenshot mid-way through a recent poll on Drive.com.au asking readers opinions on speed limits on the Hume Highway which received over 23,000 responses.

    Why doesn’t Australia have a network of motorways that comply with international standards?

    Europe has a population density of over 70 people per square kilometre, a population of 800 million. Australia as a whole, not even 3 people per square kilometre over a similar sized land mass. Australia does not have the population or funding to build a fully-fledged freeway system across the whole country yet.

    Summary

    There are some portions of road classified as Freeway in NSW that could easily have a 120 km/h speed limit today without any modification, this could be reasonably upgraded to 130 km/h with only minor modification. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau suggested these speeds were already possible in a report titled Potential benefits and costs of speed changes on rural roads” back in 2003.

    The majority of rural dual carriageways in NSW and Victoria will need major infrastructure upgrades prior to a 130 km/h speed limit being feasible. Funding for such a project could cost billions. Money which could be argued would be better for long overdue railway upgrades in the first instance. However, with minor modifications, the majority of the Hume Highway could reasonably see a speed limit of 120 km/h within a few years.


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41 Responses to Why 130 km/h doesn’t make sense for the Hume
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screaming banshee screaming banshee 5:13 pm 08 Jan 12

Presumably we can chalk up the unlicenced driver this weekend as an advocate of the hume going to 130kph.

The Antichrist The Antichrist 1:04 pm 08 Jan 12

ThatUniStudent said :

At 100 km/h I start getting stressed, worry about accidents and am very wary of drivers around me. At 110 km/h on public roads, I get anxious, am hyper vigilant of other drivers and always worry about what could go wrong and the concequences of that.

. If you want to go that fast, do it on a race track or buy a plane ticket

Seriously dude – if you are getting stressed out at 100kmh while travelling on an expressway like the Hume, you should take your own advice and buy a plane ticket. Or just drive on the backroads everywhere at 80kmh and be happy.

There are already many sections of the Hume that could easily support a 130kmh limit – which was after all, the design speed limit of the improved dual-carriageway sections between Sydney & Canberra in the first place…….maybe not the entire distance right at the moment, but substantial sections of this road could have the limit lifted tomorrow.

When a road is designed to be travelled on at 130kmh and yet the speed limits are set to 110……..I am sure that raising revenue from speeding motorists was not given any consideration whatsoever.

astrojax astrojax 9:57 am 08 Jan 12

Henry82 said :

My main concern is you’ll have learners doing 80, provisionals doing 90, truckies doing 100, and cars doing 130. Thats a huge variation in speed. If you haven’t already done so, drive at 80 km/hr in a 110 zone and see how close people swerve to avoid you, its very dangerous. Another 20km increase won’t help the situation

your concern simply echoes and enforces the concern already voiced on this aiming-for-a-mully thread of the paucity in driver skills education. that said, driver education relating to thinking about and driving to conditions is shown up here, too. ‘l’ and ‘p’ plate drivers [should] have a sign affixed to their vehicle in clear view and a truck is clearly a truck. so approaching these vehicles [hazards?], adjust your vehicle’s attitude accordingly, as you might approaching a sharp bend, a sub-standard road surface or any other potential hazard (and they are manifold, even on an australian ‘freeway’, innit..!)

Henry82 Henry82 12:17 am 08 Jan 12

My main concern is you’ll have learners doing 80, provisionals doing 90, truckies doing 100, and cars doing 130. Thats a huge variation in speed. If you haven’t already done so, drive at 80 km/hr in a 110 zone and see how close people swerve to avoid you, its very dangerous. Another 20km increase won’t help the situation

Disinformation Disinformation 11:40 pm 07 Jan 12

what_the said :

. The fact that we drive at the speeds we do yet aren’t even taught what to do in an emergency situation just baffles me.

Interesting observation you have made there.
I have found that the number of people who think that they’re okay to swerve at high speed, yet have never tried it is extremely high.
Those who have actually swerved at high speed are rarely keen on doing it again.

poetix poetix 11:25 pm 07 Jan 12

LSWCHP said :

cranky said :

A tree beside Long Gully or to the east of Braidwood is going to stop you in about a metre, and will probably kill you. Not definately kill you, because various crumple zones and air bags can work miracles.

+1 on that.
Driving back from Wee Jasper down Mountain Creek road yesterday afternoon I came across a young woman with two kids in the back who had just slid off a bend and spun sideways into a big gum tree at speed. They were in a large 4WD, and although the car was totally f*cked, they were mostly unscathed. Given the plethora of “driver ran off the road, hit a tree and was killed” incidents over Christmas, this was a true miracle.

I’m so glad I didn’t run back to that car and find a dead body, as happened in identical circumstances to a friend of mine a few years ago.

Thank God. I always think of these accidents in terms of how we have cut deaths from disease so dramatically, yet lives are taken (or are irreversibly changed) in an instant, because of our impatience. (I don’t know the circumstances here, I am generalising.)

We were pulled over and given a warning on this stretch of road just after Christmas (new V8, 25 km over the limit.) It is, to some extent, purely a matter of luck, and seconds.

You do realise some people wouldn’t even have stopped?

p1 p1 11:09 pm 07 Jan 12

LSWCHP said :

ThatUniStudent said :

bugmenot said :

ThatUniStudent said :

I can say that at 80 km/h I’m comfortable driving, not stressed, and enjoy the drive. At 100 km/h I start getting stressed… At 110 km/h on public roads, I get anxious

I should also mention that I have driven on roads throughout Europe, the Ukraine, Vietnam (scariest ever) and the USA. The top speed I have even been on a road was 337 km/h

Somehow, I doubt it.

If you are stressed at 100km/h and anxious at 110km/h, then please get the fck off the road! You are part of the problem!

The problem with being a troll is that you’ve got to make comments that will make people bite.

Sure I get stressed and anxious when I’m driving at high speed. It helps keep me alert, anticipate other driver’s moves and has several times helped me avoid accidents caused by other idiots out there. Or maybe you doubt that I’ve driven overseas or been on a road at 337 km/h? Have you never heard of passports or race cars? Or maybe you doubt uni students can afford either?

I doubt there are many drivers who cruise along at 110 km/h compleatly worry free.

I had a chat with an F-111 pilot a few years ago. I assumed he would be pretty tightly wound when zooming along just above the ground at 600 knots, but he assured me that the crews were always pretty mellow about the whole gig. “Relaxed but alert” would be a good description of their attitude. This was because they knew what they were doing and they had confidence in their training and their machines.

When I’m motoring along at 110, or any speed really, I’m in a similar frame of mind. I’m alert, but I’m certainly not apprehensive, stressed, anxious or anything like that. I’ve driven as a passenger with lots of other people, and they seem the same. Your description of your attitude towards higher speed driving seems really unusual to me.

+1 for this. For any given road, under any given combination of vehicle and conditions, I will certainly become more alert, and more sharply focused on what I am doing. I do not get scared or anxious very often. When I do, I slow down, or change driving style, or what ever I need to do.

On Topic – I’ve driven roads with no speed limit also. I totally agree that a lot of Australias roads are not well suited to higher speeds. The majority of the highway from Sydney to Canberra though, could easily be made faster. I’d be wiling to accept the occasional death in order for me to be able to go faster, what is he odds I would know them?

LSWCHP LSWCHP 8:59 pm 07 Jan 12

cranky said :

A tree beside Long Gully or to the east of Braidwood is going to stop you in about a metre, and will probably kill you. Not definately kill you, because various crumple zones and air bags can work miracles.

+1 on that.
Driving back from Wee Jasper down Mountain Creek road yesterday afternoon I came across a young woman with two kids in the back who had just slid off a bend and spun sideways into a big gum tree at speed. They were in a large 4WD, and although the car was totally f*cked, they were mostly unscathed. Given the plethora of “driver ran off the road, hit a tree and was killed” incidents over Christmas, this was a true miracle.

I’m so glad I didn’t run back to that car and find a dead body, as happened in identical circumstances to a friend of mine a few years ago.

cranky cranky 7:43 pm 07 Jan 12

The danger with any speed is the potential for sudden endings. It’s to do with what is likely to resist your forward progress.

A tree beside Long Gully or to the east of Braidwood is going to stop you in about a metre, and will probably kill you. Not definately kill you, because various crumple zones and air bags can work miracles.

Discussion above has concentrated on the potential for injury from non barrier protected opposing traffic. May I suggest that the wide plantations built into these roads act as a ‘soft’ barrier, and to the best of my knowledge, head ons from opposing traffic flows are virtually unheard of. Not so the unfortunates who manage to drive the wrong way into oncoming traffic.

I do believe the limits are too low, and would welcome a raised limit to 120/130 K’s. Motorists happy to travel at 110 would hopefully soon learn that the left lane is appropriate.

It would be wrong to limit trucks to the speed of the lowest common denominator. However, to be piled up as two of these things take 2 kilometres to overtake does rather ruin any attempt to reduce travel time. Perhaps more third lanes are required?

Local traffic entering motorways at farm gates/local roads will be a problem. Nearly lost some dear friends as a result of one of these accidents, Don’t know the answer, but the fault will usually lie with the entering motorist.

I admit to setting the cruise to the highest speed I think I can get away with. One trip from Sydney to Canberra without cruise was horrific, the constant speedo monitoring badly reducing my ability to monitor the road and surrounding traffic. It really was a dreadfull experience.

I would love to see some sections of the highway network given a trial of higher limits.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 6:39 pm 07 Jan 12

ThatUniStudent said :

bugmenot said :

ThatUniStudent said :

I can say that at 80 km/h I’m comfortable driving, not stressed, and enjoy the drive. At 100 km/h I start getting stressed… At 110 km/h on public roads, I get anxious

I should also mention that I have driven on roads throughout Europe, the Ukraine, Vietnam (scariest ever) and the USA. The top speed I have even been on a road was 337 km/h

Somehow, I doubt it.

If you are stressed at 100km/h and anxious at 110km/h, then please get the fck off the road! You are part of the problem!

The problem with being a troll is that you’ve got to make comments that will make people bite.

Sure I get stressed and anxious when I’m driving at high speed. It helps keep me alert, anticipate other driver’s moves and has several times helped me avoid accidents caused by other idiots out there. Or maybe you doubt that I’ve driven overseas or been on a road at 337 km/h? Have you never heard of passports or race cars? Or maybe you doubt uni students can afford either?

I doubt there are many drivers who cruise along at 110 km/h compleatly worry free.

I had a chat with an F-111 pilot a few years ago. I assumed he would be pretty tightly wound when zooming along just above the ground at 600 knots, but he assured me that the crews were always pretty mellow about the whole gig. “Relaxed but alert” would be a good description of their attitude. This was because they knew what they were doing and they had confidence in their training and their machines.

When I’m motoring along at 110, or any speed really, I’m in a similar frame of mind. I’m alert, but I’m certainly not apprehensive, stressed, anxious or anything like that. I’ve driven as a passenger with lots of other people, and they seem the same. Your description of your attitude towards higher speed driving seems really unusual to me.

Jethro Jethro 6:00 pm 07 Jan 12

mr_wowtrousers said :

@ Heavs. Ask around some European types and you will get similar opinions on Aussie driving, especially multi-lane driving.

To be honest, I think most of the issues involving driving could be solved by one simple mantra (apparently it also applies in other areas of your life too):

“Be considerate of other people”

Speeding – you are putting other people at risk because you are late or just a dick
Tailgating – you do not have a reaction time of under 1 second, despite watching Bathurst this year
Indicating – it’s not for you, it’s to let other people know what you are doing. The clue is in the word.
Lights on – it’s dark/raining and I can’t see you cearly in my mirrors, despite there being enough light to see the road
Blind spots – overtake me or f*ck off. Don’t sit in an area that you KNOW I can’t easily see. Use your brain.
3 second gap – I left that space to be safe. Do the same.
Stay left – it’s not a “gee whiz this lane is breezy coz no ones in it” lane, it’s an overtaking lane. Once you have overtaken, go left.
Don’t do your makeup/answer your phone – You are travelling in 1 tonne of metal hurtling along at 80-100km/hr. It’s not your f*ckin’ couch. Pay attention.

It’s not rocket science to be a “good” driver. Just think “wouldn’t it make *my* driving experience easier if the other drivers did X” and then go and do X. Double it if you are near a motorbike because, y’know, it is a lot easier to kill motorcyclists by being a s*** driver.

What he said.

welkin31 welkin31 5:11 pm 07 Jan 12

Agree with Mysteryman – lets up the limit on selected sections (say a third of the total Hume) to 120 now as a trial – the world will not end.
The police should be more proactive pulling over obstructive slow drivers. And I include those many drivers who after tootling along at 90 on single lane sections of the Barton – immediately speed up to 105 on overtaking lanes.
I heard on TV news about council rezoning of properties along the Monaro Highway – sounded like it will lead to more 80 zones. There is a constant expansion of lower speed zones.

deye deye 4:36 pm 07 Jan 12

jinkies said :

Somebody please think of the L and P platers!

That’s another bug bear of mine. They should be going the speed limit of the road, not limited to 20 or 30 kph under the limit. It’s the speed differential that’s dangerous, not the actual speed.

Limit them from certain roads through the first part of their L’s, after a certain point and level of training, then let them onto the highways so that by the time they are onto their P’s they are used to those speeds and have built up experience no those types of roads.

mr_wowtrousers mr_wowtrousers 4:19 pm 07 Jan 12

@ Heavs. Ask around some European types and you will get similar opinions on Aussie driving, especially multi-lane driving.

To be honest, I think most of the issues involving driving could be solved by one simple mantra (apparently it also applies in other areas of your life too):

“Be considerate of other people”

Speeding – you are putting other people at risk because you are late or just a dick
Tailgating – you do not have a reaction time of under 1 second, despite watching Bathurst this year
Indicating – it’s not for you, it’s to let other people know what you are doing. The clue is in the word.
Lights on – it’s dark/raining and I can’t see you cearly in my mirrors, despite there being enough light to see the road
Blind spots – overtake me or f*ck off. Don’t sit in an area that you KNOW I can’t easily see. Use your brain.
3 second gap – I left that space to be safe. Do the same.
Stay left – it’s not a “gee whiz this lane is breezy coz no ones in it” lane, it’s an overtaking lane. Once you have overtaken, go left.
Don’t do your makeup/answer your phone – You are travelling in 1 tonne of metal hurtling along at 80-100km/hr. It’s not your f*ckin’ couch. Pay attention.

It’s not rocket science to be a “good” driver. Just think “wouldn’t it make *my* driving experience easier if the other drivers did X” and then go and do X. Double it if you are near a motorbike because, y’know, it is a lot easier to kill motorcyclists by being a s*** driver.

astrojax astrojax 4:11 pm 07 Jan 12

The Traineediplomat said :

As long as ALL vehicles, cyclists and pedestrians on the Highway/Dual-Carriageway/Freeway/roadthingy/Autoput must meet the 130km/hr ‘limit’ and not travel 1km/hr faster or slower then I’m all for it.

ahh, see, this is part of the problem – the word ‘limit’ does not imply ‘a single uniform speed’.

roads in australia have a posted ‘limit’ on them, which does not mean that all traffic on those roads must ‘all travel at that speed’; rather, the ‘limit’ is the simply the fastest one may travel on that road, all other factors being equal.

i think this is part of sgt bungers’ issue and is surely part of the problem with australian drivers’ psyches that we need to change – o, how i wish we could…

jinkies jinkies 2:35 pm 07 Jan 12

Somebody please think of the L and P platers!

deye deye 2:28 pm 07 Jan 12

ThatUniStudent said :

I doubt there are many drivers who cruise along at 110 km/h compleatly worry free.

For myself I am much more comfortable in a 110 zone with no one near me than in a 60 zone surrounded by bumper to bumper traffic where you don’t know if someone is going to cut you off without indicating etc.

In general once you are on a highway you can keep clear of most other traffic and idiots, though occasionally you’ll get stuck in a bunch.

In regards to the original post. I don’t see why we have to follow other countries standards for roads. I also don’t see why we would need to have a concrete divider down the middle of the Hume just to allow 130. It would possibly make things worse in regards to wildlife.

Most of the private entrances would be used so infrequently and the amount of traffic low enough that at most times of the day they aren’t going to cause a problem.

Tailgating and U-turns on the other hand I definitely agree with you.

There should also be fines for not keeping to a minimum speed in good weather conditions. It would be a different situation in bad weather conditions though.

Mysteryman Mysteryman 1:45 pm 07 Jan 12

bugmenot said :

ThatUniStudent said :

I can say that at 80 km/h I’m comfortable driving, not stressed, and enjoy the drive. At 100 km/h I start getting stressed… At 110 km/h on public roads, I get anxious

I should also mention that I have driven on roads throughout Europe, the Ukraine, Vietnam (scariest ever) and the USA. The top speed I have even been on a road was 337 km/h

Somehow, I doubt it.

If you are stressed at 100km/h and anxious at 110km/h, then please get the fck off the road! You are part of the problem!

I agree. Stressed and anxious is not good.

eh_steve eh_steve 1:22 pm 07 Jan 12

Exactly the sort of bureaucratic guff that kills so many good ideas and holds this country back.

Bramina Bramina 12:32 pm 07 Jan 12

chewy14 said :

After driving the Hume from Sydney to Melbourne last week, the thing that struck me as the most dangerous wasn’t a few drivers travelling at 130 km/hr, it was the massive number of people refusing to take their cruise control off whilst overtaking in certain sections.
So scared are drivers of receiving a speeding fine, they overtake in a period of minutes rather than seconds. Often this results in a bank-up of other vehicles also wanting to overtake.
In some places it was downright scary to be amongst drivers behaving like this.

I’m guilty of this one. The problem is that some people speed up every time someone tries to pass and slow down if they don’t. I’m not sure why people do it. It happens on both dual carriageway and single carriageway roads. I doubt they are all trying to be dickheads because it is too common.

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