You want to heat your house without buying from ActewAGL? Wood fired heating banned in Molonglo development

johnboy said :

well, it seems likely this is a long term push to eventual banning.

A bit like what they’re doing with cats.

Start by stopping anyone building new having them, then over time the banned portion has become large, perhaps a majority, and the remaining minority can be relatively painlessly banned as an odd exemption to the norm.

Take them a hundred years at current rates though, so maybe not such a big thing to get worried about.

Well, I think I’ll wait for this wedge to get a bit wider before I man the barricades.

I finish most evenings toasting myself in a comfy chair by my crackling fire on these freezing winters nights. The dog will be at my feet or perhaps on my lap. My glass may contain a Rutherglen Muscat, or an Islay malt, or even some sweet American bourbon. My wife is usually reading on the sofa. When the fire gets a bit low, I nudge one of my fine young sons to go outside and bring in another armful from the pile of wood that I’ve recently split.

There’s nothing like a carefully tended wood fire. If you have such a thing, treasure it.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

Literally dozens of alternatives to wood, all of which are better for the environment, are safer and won’t f**k up your neighbours who have Asthma.

Using wood heaters if your home has them just for their charm on occasion, fine. But using them as a main source is caveman stuff for which you should have to pay higher rates.

but it’s OK for Bob Brown Clown to have a wood fire place.
Labour Greens motto = do as I say, not as I do.

Burning firewood was banned in London ages ago. However, if you walk around Hampstead Garden Suburb, there are new woodpiles everywhere. One law for the rich … I suspect that the burghers of Forrest would continue to openly burn their fires regardless of any eventual ban, along with the peasant kindling-gatherers on Mt Majura …

Genie said :

wildturkeycanoe said :

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

You’re in a 5* energy rated house and you’re cold ?
I live in a 0.5* property, pretty sure the place isn’t even insulated and the central heating set to 18 and a light blanket keeps me toasty warm

Central heating – and how much does that chew in power/gas/alternative energy source per quarter? I am stating that with the choices available to me in my particular home, I can barely get enough heat to feel comfortable without having to spend an enormous amount. Wood fires can provide a relatively cheap source of heat and also a very pleasant heat as opposed to a smelly and damp producing kind [gas] or a costly and environmentally unfriendly kind [electric].
5* energy rating is probably only because of the solar boosted HWS, northern aspect, rainwater tanks etc. Nothing to do with keeping the energy consumption down. Especially when the original gas heater was only 2 and 1/2 star rating.

I don’t get the outrage.

This only applies to a bunch of new suburbs in Molonglo – if you want a wood heater, don’t buy there! This way there’s choice – those who want to leave in a suburb free from wood smoke can do so, and for everyone else, there’s the rest of the city to choose from.

I note that Amanda Bresnan is claiming on Twitter that the ACT Greens do not want to ban wood fired heating, and linked to a blog post where they talked about improving the types of wood heaters being installed.

She has not responded to why the ACT Greens (As part of the ACT Government) have actioned their desire to not ban wood fired heaters by banning wood fired heaters.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

You’re in a 5* energy rated house and you’re cold ?
I live in a 0.5* property, pretty sure the place isn’t even insulated and the central heating set to 18 and a light blanket keeps me toasty warm

gasman said :

Allow me another spruik for wood pellet heaters.

Wood pellet heaters burn wood pellets, not logs. The wood pellets are made from waste sawdust that would otherwise be burnt at the sawmill. They are extremely dry and have a high surface area and so burn extremely efficiently. They release less particulates (smoke) than a gas heater (yes, gas heaters release particulates too!), and far, far less than traditional wood stoves. Australia is a big producer of wood pellets, but the vast majority of it is exported to Europe, as we don’t have any significant wood pellet stove industry.

The stoves are extremely efficient, clean, look good, programmable, and the pellets they burn are waste from the logging industry, therefore environmentally friendly.

Do a Google search for Ecoteck, Ravelli and Thermorossi, three big Italian manufacturers.

I am trying to get these stoves introduced into Australia, and have written to all MLA’s including Mr Corbell to make an exclusion from this legislation for wood pellet stoves, as they are cleaner and greener than all other active forms of heating.

I am trying to get a small Canberra buying group together to put in a small order (6-12 units) from one of these manufacturers, ready for next winter. Anyone interested? Contact me at robert at gasbag dot net.

I’d love to see those become more prevalent, gasman. And Canberra is a great place to do it. Keep us up to date on progress.

And for the advocates of this ban sh*tting themselves about wood smoke toxicity, I suggest you wrap your head around a very simple concept called dosage.

“Every substance known to man is lethal, it just depends on the dosage” – Can’t recall who said it.

I have a wood fire. I buy seasoned wood, store it dry and burn hot and clean. But I know I’m still contributing to air pollution, including fine particles, and that I should get around to ditching the wood fire. It’s hardly a cheap or easy source of heating, with two tonnes of good wood costing around $600.

If we’ve gotten used to bans on backyard burning of waste, which date from the 1970s in many Australian cities, and have reaped the health rewards of better air quality from that change, we can handle sorting out wood-fired heating.

astrojax said :

Diggety said :

Mr Gillespie said :

Diggety said :

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

Rather than spit off ‘nanny state’, how about you make an argument as to why wood burning should be allowed, taking into account (amongst other arguments) the points made by Walker. Then you might be listened to.

No, to ban something, you’d be the one needing to present the argument.

Or will you just swallow Labor/Green bullsh*t?

Canberra is becoming a nanny state, and it’s braindead lazy citizens like you letting it happen.

so, you deride your opponent and simply refer, without any argument, to the content of the opposing position as ‘bullshit’. nice work. there’s a tea party waiting for you somewhere.

So let’s just ban everything. From now on every product, service and voluntary human function is banned.

The only reasoning and advocacy needed, is by those wanting a ban lifted.

P.S. Yes,I deride people, I enjoy it. Especially those wanting to take the liberties of others away.

ffs,

modern heaters are very efficient
not allowed to use a renewable resource
more government money raised through ACTEW

yup, Canberra is a nanny state

VYBerlinaV8_is_back said :

gasman said :

Allow me another spruik for wood pellet heaters.

Wood pellet heaters burn wood pellets, not logs. The wood pellets are made from waste sawdust that would otherwise be burnt at the sawmill. They are extremely dry and have a high surface area and so burn extremely efficiently. They release less particulates (smoke) than a gas heater (yes, gas heaters release particulates too!), and far, far less than traditional wood stoves. Australia is a big producer of wood pellets, but the vast majority of it is exported to Europe, as we don’t have any significant wood pellet stove industry.

The stoves are extremely efficient, clean, look good, programmable, and the pellets they burn are waste from the logging industry, therefore environmentally friendly.

Do a Google search for Ecoteck, Ravelli and Thermorossi, three big Italian manufacturers.

I am trying to get these stoves introduced into Australia, and have written to all MLA’s including Mr Corbell to make an exclusion from this legislation for wood pellet stoves, as they are cleaner and greener than all other active forms of heating.

I am trying to get a small Canberra buying group together to put in a small order (6-12 units) from one of these manufacturers, ready for next winter. Anyone interested? Contact me at robert at gasbag dot net.

Can regular wood fireplaces burn these wood pellets?

No. Wood pellet stoves have an auger that delivers the pellets one at a time at a set rate into the firebox. You can adjust the rate of delivery for a hotter or less hot fire.

Putting all the pellets into a standard wood stove wood create a very hot and very quick inferno. They burn very hot and very fast.

Diggety said :

Mr Gillespie said :

Diggety said :

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

Rather than spit off ‘nanny state’, how about you make an argument as to why wood burning should be allowed, taking into account (amongst other arguments) the points made by Walker. Then you might be listened to.

No, to ban something, you’d be the one needing to present the argument.

Or will you just swallow Labor/Green bullsh*t?

Canberra is becoming a nanny state, and it’s braindead lazy citizens like you letting it happen.

so, you deride your opponent and simply refer, without any argument, to the content of the opposing position as ‘bullshit’. nice work. there’s a tea party waiting for you somewhere.

Diggety said :

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

Oh dear…

Next they will come for your BBQs…

FFS…

It seems to be getting worse, year after year in Canberra. I hate the term “nanny state” but it’s becoming more and more appropriate in the ACT. It’s a real shame. How long before I need a permit for my BBQ?

Mr Gillespie said :

Diggety said :

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

Rather than spit off ‘nanny state’, how about you make an argument as to why wood burning should be allowed, taking into account (amongst other arguments) the points made by Walker. Then you might be listened to.

No, to ban something, you’d be the one needing to present the argument.

Or will you just swallow Labor/Green bullsh*t?

Canberra is becoming a nanny state, and it’s braindead lazy citizens like you letting it happen.

gasman said :

Allow me another spruik for wood pellet heaters.

Wood pellet heaters burn wood pellets, not logs. The wood pellets are made from waste sawdust that would otherwise be burnt at the sawmill. They are extremely dry and have a high surface area and so burn extremely efficiently. They release less particulates (smoke) than a gas heater (yes, gas heaters release particulates too!), and far, far less than traditional wood stoves. Australia is a big producer of wood pellets, but the vast majority of it is exported to Europe, as we don’t have any significant wood pellet stove industry.

The stoves are extremely efficient, clean, look good, programmable, and the pellets they burn are waste from the logging industry, therefore environmentally friendly.

Do a Google search for Ecoteck, Ravelli and Thermorossi, three big Italian manufacturers.

I am trying to get these stoves introduced into Australia, and have written to all MLA’s including Mr Corbell to make an exclusion from this legislation for wood pellet stoves, as they are cleaner and greener than all other active forms of heating.

I am trying to get a small Canberra buying group together to put in a small order (6-12 units) from one of these manufacturers, ready for next winter. Anyone interested? Contact me at robert at gasbag dot net.

Can regular wood fireplaces burn these wood pellets?

In Goulburn, nearly everyone has slow combustion fires, properly flued through decent chimneys. We’re higher altitude than Canberra, the old houses often don’t have enough subfloor space for central heating, and gas doesn’t cut it. I have severe asthma and I don’t struggle at all with the smoke, even with a whole small city using them. But if I go to Sydney I come home wheezing.

Allow me another spruik for wood pellet heaters.

Wood pellet heaters burn wood pellets, not logs. The wood pellets are made from waste sawdust that would otherwise be burnt at the sawmill. They are extremely dry and have a high surface area and so burn extremely efficiently. They release less particulates (smoke) than a gas heater (yes, gas heaters release particulates too!), and far, far less than traditional wood stoves. Australia is a big producer of wood pellets, but the vast majority of it is exported to Europe, as we don’t have any significant wood pellet stove industry.

The stoves are extremely efficient, clean, look good, programmable, and the pellets they burn are waste from the logging industry, therefore environmentally friendly.

Do a Google search for Ecoteck, Ravelli and Thermorossi, three big Italian manufacturers.

I am trying to get these stoves introduced into Australia, and have written to all MLA’s including Mr Corbell to make an exclusion from this legislation for wood pellet stoves, as they are cleaner and greener than all other active forms of heating.

I am trying to get a small Canberra buying group together to put in a small order (6-12 units) from one of these manufacturers, ready for next winter. Anyone interested? Contact me at robert at gasbag dot net.

Mr Gillespie said :

Diggety said :

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

Here here!

For a start, its ‘hear hear’, unless it was a pun.

Rather than spit off ‘nanny state’, how about you make an argument as to why wood burning should be allowed, taking into account (amongst other arguments) the points made by Walker. Then you might be listened to.

You may as well move to the USA and just call everything you dont like ‘liberal’ or to part of the middle east and claim its ‘against God’s will’. No need to have an intelligent thought, just a catch phrase.

Comic_and_Gamer_Nerd said :

It’s only the lack wits burning dodgy wood that need policing.

Exactly. Get your fire going quickly, feed it seasoned hardwood and once it’s really hot turn the air right down.

Those three big logs I put on at 8.15pm last night were still a bright bed of coals this morning.

4 days of exceeding air pollution is enough to warrant banning of the only ecologically sustainable/renewable form of heating currently available?
Instead of policing those who burn unseasoned/unsuitable wood, we have to ruin it for everyone?
I don’t approve of this move.

wildturkeycanoe said :

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

Our inverter keeps us toasty warm all through winter and it’s cheap to run.

Walker said :

I want to be able to have a fire place. I love all that went with it plus the zen execise of chopping wood.

But if I’m going to be zen I’m going to have to consider my neighbours. Fact is smoke is not only a health hazard its’ a bother. If you can’t open a window, what else is there?

We COULD police everyone’s fuel. Or ban it. Well Canberra, burn it right or lose it altogether.

Either that or open a window while I fumigate your lounge and clothes line, and make the point.

Sure I’d like everyone to do the right thing. Maybe it’s like the fireworks. If people are going to be jerks about it, we’re all going to have to surrender it. That’s too bad.

But at the least, do we have a right to fresh air? I can’t air my house out until I get home, and when I get home, everone’s fumigating Watson.

The greater good comes into it at some point.

I think maybe a targeted thing. Go for the problem “smokers” first.

It’s only the lack wits burning dodgy wood that need policing.

Diggety said :

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

Here here!

wildturkeycanoe said :

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-coupled_heat_exchanger

wildturkeycanoe said :

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

The energy rating system in the ACT is flawed and was developed to satisfy the politicians need to appear green to their constituents.
The temperature fluctuations in Canberra range from 40 degrees in summer to minus 8 in winter, this calls for homes built to exacting standards, which they are currently not.
Taking into account the temperature fluctuations, homes should be built using similar materials and philosophy like they do in Germany, Poland and the Czech Republic. Insulated bricks, double thick wall insulation and double/triple glazed windows. I observed homes over there with walls between 50 and 80cm thickness. The houses are built to be air tight, aimed at trapping any heat that is generated internally and to keep the cold out. They utilise hydronic wall heating, which is considered to be extremely efficient and maintains a consistent temperature in the house.
In summer where temperatures can exceed 30 to 35 degrees for days on end, the homes stay cool. Heating in winter is the biggest cost impact on any home and it makes sense to try and reduce the need to heat as much as possible.
The current Australian building standards are abysmal and no government would stomach the inevitable increase in building costs, if they were to mandate adequate building standards to meet our environmental conditions.
Not exactly on topic, but I had a builder in Melbourne tell me that his clients are now asking for their garages to be air-conditioned. It’s so his clients can stay cool for the 10 seconds they spend walking between their car and the internal entry to the house.

If the standard of the newer suburbs in Canberra are anything to go by, Molonglo is going to be an overpriced dump anyway.

I want to be able to have a fire place. I love all that went with it plus the zen execise of chopping wood.

But if I’m going to be zen I’m going to have to consider my neighbours. Fact is smoke is not only a health hazard its’ a bother. If you can’t open a window, what else is there?

We COULD police everyone’s fuel. Or ban it. Well Canberra, burn it right or lose it altogether.

Either that or open a window while I fumigate your lounge and clothes line, and make the point.

Sure I’d like everyone to do the right thing. Maybe it’s like the fireworks. If people are going to be jerks about it, we’re all going to have to surrender it. That’s too bad.

But at the least, do we have a right to fresh air? I can’t air my house out until I get home, and when I get home, everone’s fumigating Watson.

The greater good comes into it at some point.

I think maybe a targeted thing. Go for the problem “smokers” first.

Although a fan of the fireplace myself, I do know that those prone to asthma tend to hate them on those nights when an inversion layer traps the smoke.

It seems fair enough, since the limit was put in place before anyone’s moved in to the new suburbs.

Aaah, wood heating. I’ve been thinking about putting it into my house. We had natural gas, it FAILED. Have 2 split systems running 24/7 at the moment and we just cope on the coldest nights under warm blankets. Never, ever, ever [ and I mean ever ] going back to in slab heating due to the cost. Are there any real alternatives to wood that can actually heat a house properly in these conditions??
BTW, we are in a 3 year old 5 star energy rated house. Does that mean you have to be cold in winter in order to save the planet??

Ahh, Canberra. It truly is the Nanny state capital.

I love my modern fireplace. Just got back from putting 3 great big logs on to burn all night.

I thought this was also the same as the reason to limit light pollution, the observatory?