Childcare Costs to skyrocket!

CanberraMum said :

So why doesn’t everyone get hit by this portable long service leave, why not the poor underpaid beautician, the cook, the aged care worker, the cleaner, the hairdresser, the baker, not candlestick makers (they are all on about the same hourly wage).

I’d like to make it clear, I don’t have a problem at all with Long Service Leave, I’m hanging for the opportuntity to take mine – but the portable aspect bugs me, it means these girls won’t stay to look after my kids – they have no incentive to….but my fees will go into a fund, that may never actually get paid to the girls….by the way, the centre is not happy, they didn’t even know about it until last week when they got an invited to an information session…and the employees don’t know anything about it either..

Let’s get a few things straight. Your fees should not change – as someone has already noted employers currently have an obligation to make a provision for LSL entitlements.

The way the scheme will work is that the ‘girls’ will get your money. Who the hell do you imagine will?

Cleaners already have portable long service leave, as do construction workers, as do public servants (to move departments/ move governments).

If I’m correct this is part of a scheme the community sector has been pushing the Govt to introduce for some time, and will apply to many low paid workers. As it should.

Providing portable LSL does the opposite of the disencentive you suggest – it provides a clear incentive to stay in the industry – even if your particular ‘girls’ move to nother centres (hopefully for better pay, condition, and more understanding parents).

Your statement that you don’t have a problem with long service leave (and you can’t wait for yours), as long as low paid workers don’t get to trough-down with you is gross hyprocracy.

CanberraMum said :

OK, so I’ve learnt to do even more maths as part of this. Chidlcare workers must either be paid under a modern award or an enterprise agreement…and the enterprise agreement cannot provide less pay than the Award:

For childcare workers (from the award) The starting salary for someone straight into the industry brand-new is $14.66. This is the same as Hairdressers, Cooks, Cleaners, Hospitality workers (I checked all the awards) – it appears to rise pretty quickly, and under the basic level of pay they basically cannot do anything…. For levels of work – and time in the job, it goes up to $17.95….once they have a Diploma the base rate of pay cannot be below $19.25 – and goes right up to $25. As I also understand it, of the at least two staff in each room (or something like that – one must hold a diploma, and be supported by one who is qualified with a certificate…)

This is exactly the same as those other industry’s – so my point is made…..why just single out childcare workers for portable long service leave, they are not lower paid than any other area of general employee….

Tooks, you should tell your friends to check the award – they may be getting screwed…and if they are enterprise bargaining, perhaps they are getting other better entitlements that balance out their lower wages…free childcare for example.

If you think this is all a good as you paint it, quit your $75 an hour job and join in.

What a knob!

Clown Killer said :

I stand in awe (and with a considerable debt of gratitude) of the young women who looked after my children in child care, a role that allowed my partner and I to continue our professional careers in the knowledge that our children were recieving the best care and attention available. The value of child care workers is significantly unervalued by the community, so any improvement in wages or conditions is only to applauded.

^ This.

Oh, and the figures being thrown around for an hourly rate – I used to get similar money doing dishes in a kitchen, A DECADE AGO.

‘Canberramum’ really needs to get some perspective.

Consider that paying for child care is most likely not even possibly an option for the very people who you are complaining about. Anything that can keep staff in the industry can only be a good thing. Pull your head in (or, perhaps, out).

Good to see a child care worker getting involved in the discussion. It’s amazing what you find out when you actually speak to the people directly involved. In this case it’s the child care workers themselves.

Yep, not the children, not the parents but the workers. ‘CCW’ at #40 if your comments are indeed an accurate reflection of the case in general (I’m not doubting they are) then this portable LSL looks like a positive. To you and your colleagues – keep up the good work!

I know child care costs can hurt but let’s keep it in perspective. By and large these children are getting quality care. I never cease to be amazed though by some of the demands made by some parents. People, they’re child care workers not nannies! True many of these workers go above and beyond but this is a courtesy not an right.

‘Canberramum’, kudos for staying in the work force and for using your baby bonus for its intended purpose – your baby. As you mention it’s your last (most recent?) child, haven’t you already experienced having to budget / juggle finances when you had your other child/ren? We all know kids aren’t cheap – important to have that financial “wriggle room” which hopefully returning to the work place has given you?

I’m guessing that ‘proofpositive’ at post #18 is not a parent as any parent knows the costs associated with child birth and associated necessities and knows that in some instances the baby bonus doesn’t entirely cover it. Yes, no doubt some do blow the money but one should never assume. Either that, or ‘pp’ is a parent and was just outraged by your OP.

Can’t your get your CanberraGrandMum to mind them for free, after all it would be better than putting them in an institution.

I hate to break it to you canberramum, but if you want quality care for your children, you either have to pay for it or look after them yourself

That pretty much sums it up. I stand in awe (and with a considerable debt of gratitude) of the young women who looked after my children in child care, a role that allowed my partner and I to continue our professional careers in the knowledge that our children were recieving the best care and attention available. The value of child care workers is significantly unervalued by the community, so any improvement in wages or conditions is only to applauded.

CanberraMum said :

The starting salary for someone straight into the industry brand-new is $14.66. This is the same as Hairdressers, Cooks, Cleaners, Hospitality workers (I checked all the awards) – it appears to rise pretty quickly, and under the basic level of pay they basically cannot do anything…. For levels of work – and time in the job, it goes up to $17.95….once they have a Diploma the base rate of pay cannot be below $19.25 – and goes right up to $25.

You make it sound like $25/hr is a princely wage for a skilled, experienced worker. It’s not. $25/hr is like $40k a year for a full time worker. That’s a lot less than the current average wage (granted, the average wage includes the high earning blokes – but still).

So for $25 (max) per hour they
– entertain the kids
– change multiple nappies
– deal with tantrums, screams, distress, injuries
– deal with the sometimes over the top demands from parents
– are not allowed to swear or show anger
– have a legal obligation to report suspected abuse
– deal with distressing family situations
etc

I have been watching this post with interest the last few days and I must say I am really impressed with the support for childcare workers from most of the comments posted.

I have been working in the industry since I was 19 and am now 25. I hold my diploma and am a team leader in a nursery room. I get paid about 21.70 and I am responsable for the care and saftey of 12 babies.

I work for one of the best employers in the ACT. My wages are above award and more importantly my workplace conditions are great.

Unfortunatly, this is rare to come by in the childcare industry.
The only way I could see a childcare worker earning $25 an hour is if they are the director of large centre or if they are a fully qualified teacher(which is rare to find in this industry, as teachers get better pay and conditions as you’d imagine)

Despite awards and legislation our conditions are pretty sad really.

By law in canberra the ratio of babies to staff is 5:1. Would anyone here like to take care of 5 babies for an hour for $20..Anyone?

Often employers will breach these limits, At previous centres I have been looking after 12 babies with only one other staff member, we had licencing there several times..which did not stop them from booking in more children then we where allowed to have.

So when the union came to our work not long ago and told us about the portable long service leave victory I was happy. I signed a petition(along with many others in the industry) to get this incentive. I hope it will keep some workers in the industry, as it might inspire them to look for a better employer rather then leaving childcare altogether..which is what most people do. And then perhaps childcare employers will raise the standards.. Not likely though!!

I hate to break it to you canberramum, but if you want quality care for your children, you either have to pay for it or look after them yourself

$25 per hr is crap for the work they do, end of story, they work hard and put massive effort into what they do (most of them anyway but that’s another thread).

I’ve met public service contractors being paid $100 per hr, with less work ethic and brains, is that justified? Rhetorical question by the way.

You’re not going to hurt us by staying home to look after your kids, none of us here are going to feel the payments to you if you do that.

IcePoet, you hit it perfectly there, my mother works in childcare and carries the same ethic, she works because she loves it not for the money that’s for sure.

Keeping in mind of course that these people are looking after little children – in my book thats a fair bit more important than giving my fringe a trim, making me a toasted sandwich, cleaning my loo or pouring me a beer.

Indeed. To say nothing of the stress of dealing with parents versus dealing with haircut customers, people who want a sandwich or, frankly, pretty much any other class of customer you can possibly imagine. Don’t get me wrong, many parents are quite lovely people, but more than a few think that because you’re looking after their child it gives them a right to treat you like utter crap, threaten you, demand completely unrealistic standards of care (particularly in view of what they’re paying) and so on. Hell, just look at the attitude of the original poster: “It’s all negative”! Which is to say, “these people don’t matter one iota to me if I’m going to be slightly out of pocket (but god help them if I think for one second that they’re giving anything less than the ultimate care and attention to my wonderful, infallible children)”.

I, personally, would not work in that industry for twice the rates that are being talked about here.

For childcare workers (from the award) The starting salary for someone straight into the industry brand-new is $14.66. This is the same as Hairdressers, Cooks, Cleaners, Hospitality workers (I checked all the awards)

Keeping in mind of course that these people are looking after little children – in my book thats a fair bit more important than giving my fringe a trim, making me a toasted sandwich, cleaning my loo or pouring me a beer.

I currently earn $21 per hour or more stacking supermarket shelves. CanberraMum, you think that someone who is paid to take care of YOUR kids and is fully qualified – indicating they have spent significant time,energy and money in educating themselves so that they can be as well trained as possible to help YOUR kids grown up as healthy, well adjusted children – is not being underpaid at a mere $19.25 an hour, when anyone with no qualifications and over the age of 21 can walk into a supermarket stacking job and earn $2 more per hour?

I have a friend who is a childcare worker and she works bloody hard for her money. She spends the day caring for, teaching and in general being a bloody good role model for the children she is responsible for and I have seen numerous instances of her returning home from work distressed because something bad has happened to one of ‘her’ kids (such as an illness or distressing family issue). She is a loving and kind person who works in field because she genuinely cares about children and wants to see them grow up healthy and happy. Anyone who thinks that the time, energy and love that she puts into taking care of these children is truly worth a measly $19.25 per hour, quite simply has rocks in their head.

OK, so I’ve learnt to do even more maths as part of this. Chidlcare workers must either be paid under a modern award or an enterprise agreement…and the enterprise agreement cannot provide less pay than the Award:

For childcare workers (from the award) The starting salary for someone straight into the industry brand-new is $14.66. This is the same as Hairdressers, Cooks, Cleaners, Hospitality workers (I checked all the awards) – it appears to rise pretty quickly, and under the basic level of pay they basically cannot do anything…. For levels of work – and time in the job, it goes up to $17.95….once they have a Diploma the base rate of pay cannot be below $19.25 – and goes right up to $25. As I also understand it, of the at least two staff in each room (or something like that – one must hold a diploma, and be supported by one who is qualified with a certificate…)

This is exactly the same as those other industry’s – so my point is made…..why just single out childcare workers for portable long service leave, they are not lower paid than any other area of general employee….

Tooks, you should tell your friends to check the award – they may be getting screwed…and if they are enterprise bargaining, perhaps they are getting other better entitlements that balance out their lower wages…free childcare for example.

“The original entitlement of 13 weeks after 15 years was intended to give immigrants time to return home to Europe (6 weeks each way by sea) to visit their family.”

Bollocks. LSL starts after 10 years anyway

and

http://www.qleave.qld.gov.au/

To the OT. Dry your eyes or look after your own kids. The choice is yours

CanberraMum said :

Hey All, I am so glad I started something here. Excellent.

OK, my problem is that child care workers are not all that underpaid – I think it is a major misconception…I actually asked at my centre (yes they were the ones who informed me that fees would increase as a result of the legislation) and overall most of them said they were actually happy, they are governed by an Award….and work the same as heaps of other employees everywhere!! I asked – to get you some facts and it seems most of them earn $18 an hour without qualifications, and if they have qualifications it is around $22-$28 an hour…

What child care centre are you talking about? I know several people working in childcare who are on nowhere near those wages.

As far as I’m concerned they could double child care woke salaries and they’d still be under-paid.

Hey All, I am so glad I started something here. Excellent.

OK, my problem is that child care workers are not all that underpaid – I think it is a major misconception…I actually asked at my centre (yes they were the ones who informed me that fees would increase as a result of the legislation) and overall most of them said they were actually happy, they are governed by an Award….and work the same as heaps of other employees everywhere!! I asked – to get you some facts and it seems most of them earn $18 an hour without qualifications, and if they have qualifications it is around $22-$28 an hour… Is that really that bad – I don’t know? It seems a hell of a lot higher than my starting salary out of Uni…,most of the workers at my centre are young – and none of them have left since I’ve been there.

So why doesn’t everyone get hit by this portable long service leave, why not the poor underpaid beautician, the cook, the aged care worker, the cleaner, the hairdresser, the baker, not candlestick makers (they are all on about the same hourly wage).

I’d like to make it clear, I don’t have a problem at all with Long Service Leave, I’m hanging for the opportuntity to take mine – but the portable aspect bugs me, it means these girls won’t stay to look after my kids – they have no incentive to….but my fees will go into a fund, that may never actually get paid to the girls….by the way, the centre is not happy, they didn’t even know about it until last week when they got an invited to an information session…and the employees don’t know anything about it either..

p.s. I wish to hell I had a second FBT car, instead of my thirteen year old car, I don’t have a plasma, I used the $5000 to pay the pediatrics bill and buy a car-seat, a cot, and the ability to stay home for as long as possible before putting my last child into care! So the extra $5 a day, $50 a fortnight is going to hurt!! But it would hurt you more if I stopped working, and started on family asisstance…..

proofpositive said :

Whilst you are happy enjoying the spoils of your second family income (hence your need for childcare) going to and from your place of work in your (FBT free, tax subsidised) salary packaged car, perhaps next time you’ll think more carefully about the implications of having squandering all your baby bonus on that plasma TV in your living room instead of investing it for a rainy day.

Build a bridge and get over it.

+1, I’m thinking you might have hit the mark here, or very close to it. Bad case of sense of entitlement.

moneypenny2612 said :

C. if your lifestyle is really cramped by the advent of portable LSL in the childcare industry, auction the child on ebay. More money in your pocket (except for foregone tax rebates). Make sure you set a proper reserve price.

What a completely absurb comment to make!

Ebay’s fees are so high they’ll hardly make any money at all.

I am struggling to think of something constructive and positive to say about the OT. Bugger it. I’ll make do with ‘thoughtful’.

If you find child-rearing financially draining you could always:

A. quit your paid employment and rear your kids yourself. No childcare fees to worry about. Let us know when you feel like some LSL; or

B. import some Filipino girl to be a nanny – you could even deduct board from the measly wage you pay her, and not include LSL in her contract conditions; or

C. if your lifestyle is really cramped by the advent of portable LSL in the childcare industry, auction the child on ebay. More money in your pocket (except for foregone tax rebates). Make sure you set a proper reserve price.

Been living under a rock for the past 6 months? The legislation was passed in August last year. I guess they could have been letting the anger build during that time in preparation for a good angry ramble on here..

So there may be some incentive for a child care worker to stay in the industry rather than leaving to take up an APS 3 in the public service? Maybe this might mean my daughter might have the same child care worker for more than a few weeks before yet another one leaves

Would comment, but its all been said.

You’re not part of the couple that sued a doctor for accidentally providing you with two healthy children when you only wanted one, and stuffed up your planned lifestyle, are you? Alternatively, if you find it all so offensive, maybe you and your husband (or whatever) could sacrifice a career for a few years and raise your children yourself

‘Dvaey’ – kudos for researching this and putting a bit of effort into your posts, nice work!

I agree that on the face of this, the OP is outlandish and insulting to those we entrust with our children, whose pay and conditions are ridiculously inverse to the importance of their role.

‘Thumper’ – good point at #3 re: potential employers paying the LSL bill for a new employee.

‘Canberramum’ – if we collectively ‘hold fire’ long enough, can we encourage you to expand on your points in your original post? ‘Dvaey’ rightly asks this at #17 and I’m sure we’d all appreciate a well thought out and researched position on this.

Please respond to those who have raised decent counter points.

This is great news for those horrifically underpaid, hard-working childcarers in Canberra – terrific news indeed.

What an outrageous post. ‘CanberraMum’ me thinks ‘Canberrachildcarecentreowner’ more like.

Spectra said :

It is all negative

I’m staggered by the kind of arrogance that would completely ignore the fact that it’s a positive thing for these grossly underpaid and under-appreciated workers. “It’s all negative”…”for me, and who the hell else would matter?”.

Horrible to think that such self-involved people are out there raising similarly narcissistic children.

Okay, it appears my google comment was too quick, as I was only searching google news which goes back 3 months, and this is old news dating back at least 12 months with no recent developments.

Spend a little time reading up on portable long service leave on google, and a lot of your initial comments lose value. The actual proposal is called ‘Portable long service leave for the ACT community services sector”.

From public long service leave report:

> The Community Services sector includes activities such as: personal and social support;
> child care; training and employment; financial and placement services; corrective services;
> other direct community service activities; and policy, community and service development
> and support.

I dunno how anyone could read that list and say No, not for the Public Service, not for everyone – just some people – actually just for childcare workers when infact is is not for public servants, not for everyone, only for those who work in community services supporting those people who need their services.

As for your question of “Why doesnt this occur all over Australia – well the answer to the second question is easy!! Cause it’s stupid!!“.. Other states do have PLSL for various industries. Maybe part of the reason why it hasnt occured yet all over Australia, is due to the higher than average number of public service families who work, where in other parts of Australia parents dont necessarily wish to put their young child in childcare and instead raise the child themselves.

Also, if you think that portable long service leave in the ACT only exists for childcare workers, maybe you should have a look at <A HREF="http://www.actlslb.act.gov.au/construction%20about%20us.htmlthe ACT portable long service leave scheme for construction workers

Okay, it appears my google comment was too quick, as I was only searching google news which goes back 3 months, and this is old news dating back at least 12 months with no recent developments.

Spend a little time reading up on portable long service leave on google, and a lot of your initial comments lose value. The actual proposal is called ‘Portable long service leave for the ACT community services sector”.

From public long service leave report:

> The Community Services sector includes activities such as: personal and social support;
> child care; training and employment; financial and placement services; corrective services;
> other direct community service activities; and policy, community and service development
> and support.

I dunno how anyone could read that list and say No, not for the Public Service, not for everyone – just some people – actually just for childcare workers when infact is is not for public servants, not for everyone, only for those who work in community services supporting those people who need their services.

As for your question of “Why doesnt this occur all over Australia – well the answer to the second question is easy!! Cause it’s stupid!!“.. Other states do have PLSL for various industries. Maybe part of the reason why it hasnt occured yet all over Australia, is due to the higher than average number of public service families who work, where in other parts of Australia parents dont necessarily wish to put their young child in childcare and instead raise the child themselves.

Also, if you think that portable long service leave in the ACT only exists for childcare workers, maybe you should have a look at http://www.actlslb.act.gov.au/construction%20about%20us.htmlthe ACT portable long service leave scheme for construction workers

Whilst you are happy enjoying the spoils of your second family income (hence your need for childcare) going to and from your place of work in your (FBT free, tax subsidised) salary packaged car, perhaps next time you’ll think more carefully about the implications of having squandering all your baby bonus on that plasma TV in your living room instead of investing it for a rainy day.

Build a bridge and get over it.

This comment/rant seems awfully political, and the author seems to have included a few specific details which Id expect to be in a press release or news article somewhere. Since this article is linked, can you provide your source, and what bias and/or what your interest in this is? Are you simply a parent who was advised by your childcare that their prices will go up because of a government decision?

A quick google finds absolutely nothing about it even.

I doubt the employees would be expressing a negative opinion about getting extra benefits, which really makes me wonder what angle youre trying to get out of this.

CanberraMum, you are presumably a mum of CanberraKids who need childcare. Suck it up and start paying. Hopefully they won’t grow up to have an ego and attitude problem like you.

Alternatively, stay home, take care of your own damned kids and stop bitching about having to pay more so that some poor sucker on minimum wage can look after your precious bundle-o-joy. No doubt you need childcare because you’re off working to pay the mortgage on your 4br ensuite home. Lets face it, community sector workers earn shit money and can hardly even entertain the idea of having enough money to buy their own place – you can bet they’re struggling to even put food on their own table. How would you fare on a piddling $15 per hour?

Wouldn’t you rather attract competent and skilled workers who are paid adequately to care for your brats? Surely the answer is yes…

Why is it that we allow our vulnerable loved ones – kids, grannies, disabled…to be looked after by socially and financially disadvantaged people who often can’t get work elsewhere? The crap pay and conditions in the community sector are the real injustice here.

Most of the points I would have made already have been by other posters so I’ll just add this: portable long service already exists in other highly transient industries, such as cleaning, and the sky has fallen yet. And to reiterate, child care operators are already required to put long service payments into a fund. If some aren’t doing that then they’re in the wrong. I’ve got a son in childcare and I want the best workers possible there, and if it costs me a few extra bucks a day (which there is no evidence that it will), I’m more than happy to pay.

The employers should *already* be putting aside that money for long service leave – now they’ll just have to send it to the authority to look after. If the employers weren’t doing that before, then it seems to me that they were cheating their workers.

It is all negative

I’m staggered by the kind of arrogance that would completely ignore the fact that it’s a positive thing for these grossly underpaid and under-appreciated workers. “It’s all negative”…”for me, and who the hell else would matter?”.

I wanted to launch a tirade at Canberramum but everyone has covered the ground well enough. Canberramum my only advice is to ‘suck it up princess’.

Wow, Canberramum! You don’t happen to work for the Daily Telegraph or A Current Affair, do you? Nothing like a sensationalised headline to suck in the punters. Or was the exclamation mark at the end of your heading actually meant to have been a question mark?

Well I’m glad childcare workers are finally getting some kind of pay and conditions benefit. They are still underpaid while owners of the centre reap the rewards. If this keeps workers in the industry its a great thing in the long run for our children’s education.

If your prices go up, complain to the owners for being greedy, because I can bet they can afford to pay the levy without putting the prices up.

amarooresident2 said :

God forbid low paid workers get a benefit. Especially in an industry that has historically had trouble recruiting and retaining staff. If portable long service leave encourages people to stay in the industry then perhaps that might be a good thing for them and your little darlings.

+1

Did you know that Australia and New Zealand are the only countries that have long service leave. The original entitlement of 13 weeks after 15 years was intended to give immigrants time to return home to Europe (6 weeks each way by sea) to visit their family.

The new portable long service leave scheme applies to most organisations in the social services sector.

amarooresident2 said :

God forbid low paid workers get a benefit. Especially in an industry that has historically had trouble recruiting and retaining staff. If portable long service leave encourages people to stay in the industry then perhaps that might be a good thing for them and your little darlings.

+1

Childcare workers have the future of our kids in their hands and they get paid crap wages that most of us wouldn’t get out of bed for.

The skyrocketing childcare costs have more to do with unreasonable profit margins of the operators than staff wages.

And here in Canberra it has more to do with the simple fact that the operators know they can get away with charging far more than elsewhere because Canberra people put up with being fleeced at every turn. Even Stanhope yesterday was saying it’s OK for our housing affordability to be almost as bad as Sydney “because we get paid more”.

Hmmmmn, you are aware that childcare operators are already required to put money away for accrued long service leave? It will not add to the cost of child care unless the company is not budgeting for leave accruals.

Nice rant though.

My wife works in the child care industry and you would choke on your lunch if i told you how much they get paid for the work they do. all they are getting is one one extra benifit(if you make it to your long service entitlement) to add to their 3rd world pay.
I understand your complaint but dont blame the entitlement the employee is getting. they get paid sh*thouse, they work harder then a lot of other jobs. the centers you place your children charge like wounded bulls and they have the incentive to keep cranking up the prices because part of it is offset by government rebates

OMG WTF A luxury enjoyed by the vast majority of ACT workers is to be granted to those lowly 21st century equivalents of the scullery maids. Shock horror. How dare these workers, only put on the planet to serve the demands of career public servant mums who as APS6’s and EL1s shouldn’t have to put up with other people getting a benefit of the workplace.

Get real Canberramum.

God forbid low paid workers get a benefit. Especially in an industry that has historically had trouble recruiting and retaining staff. If portable long service leave encourages people to stay in the industry then perhaps that might be a good thing for them and your little darlings.

More of the Government improving Child Care for ‘Australian Families’…….