Your money to prop up the Labor party [With Poll]

Yeh probably wrong thread but if you change the rules to the extent that a legitimate business can’t survive you need to compensate the business.

$31 million just in the ACT for an idea that quite clearly wont work is somewhat ridiculous, the clubs will just have generic pre-filled out forms that pre commit for $10,000 and you sign it on the way in.

Here’s a self regulation idea for you that wont cost anyone anything, if you dont want to gamble or dont trust yourself, don’t join the club or cancel your membership.

Scum. Mongrels. Bastards.

My blood boiled when I read this. I’ve voted Labor almost all my life, but the situation in the ACT is so bad that I feel compelled to vote against these turds at the next election.

I never thought I’d see the bloody day.

shadow boxer said :

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club. Every cent of pokies revenue comes from members or guests of members, it is not consolidated revenue for the community.

If you don’t like the way your club is run get involved, if you’re not a member it’s not really your problem or concern.

It damn well is when tax payer money may be paid to sustain clubs.

shadow boxer said :

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club.

Are you sure you’re in the right topic?
The clubs who are begging for a handout of public money to maintain their business operations?

Those private Clubs?
I never said I wanted a share of their money, but somehow when those ‘private’ clubs feel they deserve a share of your taxes, I”m the one with entitlement issues?

shadow boxer said :

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club. Every cent of pokies revenue comes from members or guests of members, it is not consolidated revenue for the community.

Would those be the same private clubs that are being given taxpayers’ money to allow them to maintain their business model?

I-filed said :

Where the hell is our Opposition when we need one?

Who knows?

I thought, ‘perhaps the Canberra media aren’t reporting those nasty Libs’ (not unheard of), so I looked for something, anything on their website, and the lastest thing is this:
http://canberraliberals.org.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?id=1574&nav_cat_id=168&nav_top_id=55

So unless there’s a sneak attack brewing, there’s nothing from the Libs.

As for the Greens (ok, I know a coalition partner is not an opposition, but I live in hope), nothing there either.

So, opposition? What opposition would that be?

Where the hell is our Opposition when we need one?

It’s interesting how people feel they are entitled to an opinion and a share of the profits emanating from a private club. Every cent of pokies revenue comes from members or guests of members, it is not consolidated revenue for the community.

If you don’t like the way your club is run get involved, if you’re not a member it’s not really your problem or concern.

Ban the lot – they do far more harm than good.

creative_canberran said :

….or The Greens who at the first chance will outlaw cars and rename the ACT “New Cuba”.

I’m happy to go along with that, so long as there is plenty of rum.

Nice to see the ACT Labor Government are just as corrupt as the recently routed NSW and Victorian counterparts. Pity the alternatives are so dire. Libs who can’t spell their own MLA’s names nor write policy or The Greens who at the first chance will outlaw cars and rename the ACT “New Cuba”.

As for the clubs, stuff them. If they can’t turn a profit from things other than gambling, too bad. Plenty of other places to get cheap, nasty meals and crappy entertainment.

dungfungus said :

No matter what way you look at it, there is something obscene about a political party owning a “community” club that preys on people with a terrible gambling addiction. Imagine the fuss there would be if, say, the Liberal Party started “The Liberal Club” with the aim of raising campaign money through alcohol sales and gaming.

They probably should start such a club. Ironically though, if both major parties owned large dens of gambling, drinking and sin Community based clubs, then all the clubs would loose some of the motivation to donate to the politicians, since they would know that someone has an interest in pokies no matter who gets in.

Whats the difference between a politician and a flathead? Ones a scum sucking , bottom dweller…………………………and the other is a fish!

There’s a word for this: corruption.

No matter what way you look at it, there is something obscene about a political party owning a “community” club that preys on people with a terrible gambling addiction. Imagine the fuss there would be if, say, the Liberal Party started “The Liberal Club” with the aim of raising campaign money through alcohol sales and gaming. Also, this nonsense that the clubs are claiming that poker machines subsidise member’s meals is nonsense. Most catering in the large clubs is outsourced now and this is why it is expensive, generally bland and tasteless. There was a time when community clubs functioned without poker machines and it would be great to return to those times.

Not a bad deal for the Labor/tradies clubs, they’re getting a nice little return on the $500 000 odd that they donate annually to ACT Labor. Now if only their pokies machines paid the same sort of returns…

no taxpayer’s money was given to canberra’s smaller venues that could not afford the licence hike last year after the new laws were introduced, therefore no taxpayer’s money should be given to clubs when these new laws are introduced
sink or swim……..same attitude as was taken last year i reckon…….

Short of doing a sector-level Revenue vs Costs analysis with outlet-level granularity or a systemic audit, you’re not going to see total accuracy in information.
If you in any way wanted to reduce the number of poker machines in use, surely you would actually push for clubs to recover their own costs on a user-pays basis, or dip into their 24% ‘net revenue’ deductible, which adds up to about $40mil per year.
The entire point of giving them that $40mil deduction is so that they can maintain their poker machine operations.

NGMR [as in the bit the 'Community benefit' contributions come from], as defined in the legislation, is calculated as follows:
Gross Gaming Machine Revenue (GGMR) derived by the licensee, less:
a) any amount of gaming machine tax payable on the GGMR; and
b) 24% of GGMR.
GGMR is the total of all moneys inserted into machines less winnings to players and approved amounts set aside for the payment of linked jackpots. The 24% deduction is recognition of the expenses a licensee incurs in gaming machine operations.
Source: Page 1, Community Contributions made by Gaming Machine Licensees 1 July 2009 to 30 June 2010, ACT Gambling and Racing Commission, October 2010

But for reference, giving a $30 million handout to the entire Gaming sector with no strings attached is equivalent to giving them a one-year tax exemption.

Its terrible policy to keep increasing the tax burden on your entire population (including your precious working families…) because you want to give tax breaks to the end of town already with the deepest pockets.

Remind me again Mr Barr, why did we allow the Labor Club Group to own the Labor Party the Labor Party to have an associated entity in the Gaming sector?

I love that song by The Whitlams

NO…………………………NO…………………………..NO!

Taxpayers shouldn’t be footing the bill for businesses who can’t afford to comply with legislation changes.

qbngeek said :

Really Andrew? Honestly? You really expect us to believe that the clubs can’t cough up $30 million in total between them? I reckon the aggressive taking over of smaller clubs has cost them more than $30 million and everytime I walk into any of the clubs in Canberra they seem to be spending money on doing the joint up.

Before we give them any money, lets see honest independent figures of what they pull out of pokies each year. If they can recoup thier costs within 5 years then they don’t deserve a cent. Having worked in several small businesses and owning my own I can tell you that I have always planned for a major investment to be paid off in 5 years. I know many business owners who work on 7 or 10 year plans and finance the investment accordingly.

+1

Really Andrew? Honestly? You really expect us to believe that the clubs can’t cough up $30 million in total between them? I reckon the aggressive taking over of smaller clubs has cost them more than $30 million and everytime I walk into any of the clubs in Canberra they seem to be spending money on doing the joint up.

Before we give them any money, lets see honest independent figures of what they pull out of pokies each year. If they can recoup thier costs within 5 years then they don’t deserve a cent. Having worked in several small businesses and owning my own I can tell you that I have always planned for a major investment to be paid off in 5 years. I know many business owners who work on 7 or 10 year plans and finance the investment accordingly.

If it costs so much to up grade the machines to be compliant that is isn’t worth it, why don’t they just rip them out and go without?

Surely the clubs can finance the upgrade with loans against the huge income stream they will get from the upgraded machines?

Ohhh, wait, they already have financial commitments against that income stream. So now they are in a position where they can’t afford to upgrade to a standard where they will get the gaming revenue, and they also can’t afford to go without the gaming revenue.

Hell of a way to run a business, especially when a big chunk of you income comes from something as heavily regulated and politically variable as gambling machines.