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Cardboard numbers plates and a tasing

johnboy 7 September 2011 55

ACT Policing has charged a man following a pursuit in Monash last night (Tuesday, 6 September).

About 11pm Woden Patrol observed a Mazda MX6 at the intersection of Marconi Crescent and Drakeford Drive in Kambah with cardboard number plates attached.

Police attempted to perform a traffic stop on the car and when it failed to stop commenced a pursuit.

Police pursued the vehicle through the suburbs of Kambah, Wanniassa and Monash before the driver lost control of his vehicle and collided with the curb, coming to a stop in Clive Steele Avenue, Monash.

Upon exiting the vehicle the offender rushed towards the sergeant who subsequently drew and discharged his Taser.

This is the first discharge of a Taser since the August 22 roll-out of Tasers to frontline sergeants. The deployment of a Taser in the ACT is subject to an independent committee review.

The pursuit lasted eight minutes and the maximum speed reached was 140km/h.

The man received watch house bail and will face the ACT Magistrates Court on September 13 to answer various traffic related charges including, dangerous driving, drive while disqualified, exceed PCA and not obey direction of police.

[Courtesy ACT Policing]


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55 Responses to Cardboard numbers plates and a tasing
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p1 p1 3:59 pm 07 Sep 11

Henry82 said :

Then, knowing the intelligence of many of these thieves, they’ll eventually run over a set.

Actually, knowing the persistence of these thieves, they would probably steal the spikes and sell them as scrap.

There are plenty of quite advanced products designed to immobilise cars remotely in case of theft. If the government made them mandatory to be fitted to a car, then gave the police the master codes….

But someone would just start whinging about civil liberties.

CharlieB CharlieB 4:15 pm 07 Sep 11

Zero sympathy for the perp.
But, going on an 8 minute spin through town at 140km/h to get the new taser off probably isn’t helping public safety – those cardboard number plates aren’t exactly deadly.
Problem with every new non-lethal weapon brought in, supposedly to replace deadly force, is they just get used far more often than lethal force was ever required. Barring evidence to the contrary, I doubt the officer was really in fear for their life. Could have used baton or capsicum spray or physical restraint instead – even capsicum spray was supposed to replace lethal force.

grunge_hippy grunge_hippy 5:38 pm 07 Sep 11

i saw that car last weekend…. wondered how it got away with having cardboard plates… i guess it didnt after all.

Mr Gillespie Mr Gillespie 6:00 pm 07 Sep 11

Why do the police have to answer to a “committee review” or some other rigorous inquisition each time they so much as use a Taser (let alone a gun) on a criminal when it is plainly obvious this criminal was evading the law and leading a high-speed pursuit??? No wonder policework is so difficult while the criminals (especially the juvenile rodents) have little to fear!!

    johnboy johnboy 6:05 pm 07 Sep 11

    Seems reasonable to review procedures and outcomes without prejudice.

creative_canberran creative_canberran 6:48 pm 07 Sep 11

EvanJames said :

Hmmm. This taser thing has got me thinking… what the cops now need is a taser that works on cars. They could EMP errant cars, do away with dangerous car chases AND have themselves a great deal of fun into the bargain.

The next generation of radar arrays on some fighter jets and naval vessels will have such a feature. The catch is you do need to have shielding on your own electrics to avoid scoring an own goal. A bit much to do on AFP’s cars just catch hoodies in a stolen datsun.

That said, the tracing tag gun that has been demoed shows promise overseas, basically fires a tag from the front of the police vehicle which attaches to the offender’s vehicle. Then it’s just a matter of dropping back and following the signal.

johnboy johnboy 6:52 pm 07 Sep 11

Not just next generation.

F18 Growlers over afghanistan are already recognising circuit boards and focussing down to melt the filaments.

Needs twin turbojets to power that kind of EW weapon (masquerading as a radar) though.

dpm dpm 7:56 pm 07 Sep 11

Hahahahaha!!
The running at the cops bit sounds a bit odd, but if ever anyone deserved a zap, it was this douche! Good to see it was all over with before he ran into another car or pedestrian.

Tooks Tooks 8:01 pm 07 Sep 11

CharlieB said :

Zero sympathy for the perp.
But, going on an 8 minute spin through town at 140km/h to get the new taser off probably isn’t helping public safety – those cardboard number plates aren’t exactly deadly.
Problem with every new non-lethal weapon brought in, supposedly to replace deadly force, is they just get used far more often than lethal force was ever required. Barring evidence to the contrary, I doubt the officer was really in fear for their life. Could have used baton or capsicum spray or physical restraint instead – even capsicum spray was supposed to replace lethal force.

You really believe they pursued him so they could use a taser? Hopefully not.

1) Tasers were not brought in to replace deadly force
2) The officer doesn’t need to be in fear for his life to use it. Where did that myth come from?
3) Capsicum spray would be a bad option in that case. A baton would cause injury to the offender. Physical restraint? I’ll tell you what, I’ll charge at you one on one and see if you can restrain me without getting hurt.
4) Capsicum spray was never supposed to replace lethal force. That’s ridiculous.

Not having a go at you, but let’s not perpetuate some of the myths out there. Bottom line is, the offender suffered five seconds of pain and neither he, nor any police, were injured. Is that not a good outcome?

creative_canberran creative_canberran 9:45 pm 07 Sep 11

CharlieB said :

Zero sympathy for the perp.
But, going on an 8 minute spin through town at 140km/h to get the new taser off probably isn’t helping public safety – those cardboard number plates aren’t exactly deadly.
Problem with every new non-lethal weapon brought in, supposedly to replace deadly force, is they just get used far more often than lethal force was ever required. Barring evidence to the contrary, I doubt the officer was really in fear for their life. Could have used baton or capsicum spray or physical restraint instead – even capsicum spray was supposed to replace lethal force.

I don’t think they engaged in a chase just to use the taser, but your comment does touch on an important issue… that sometimes Police do ramp up the threat they see themselves dealing with as the pursuit continues. It gains its own momentum where the longer and more desperate the driver seems to get away, the more dangerous or serious the activity the police believe they were involved in.
There’s going to be two separate reviews of the activity here so the actions will be looked at.

Regarding the choice to pursuit based on number plates made of cardboard, which are a minor issue, it’s based on the fact that often, a minor stop can catch someone for a major offence. A broken light on a car isn’t serious, until you pull them over and find they have drugs in the car for example or the driver has a warrant.

Regarding capsicum and battons, both can inflict severe injury. In fact people have died from being sprayed by OC. OC is also not washed away easily with water and requires a special eye wash. Even then, the effects can reportedly be felt for anything from hours to many days afterwards.

LSWCHP LSWCHP 10:54 pm 07 Sep 11

I’ve thought long and hard about this taser business, and the possibility of the inappropriate use of tasers to enforce compliance. Really, this seems like a good outcome to me. The alternative would’ve been an entirely justifiable shooting. As I’ve stated elsewhere, I’d also rather be tased than shot, in the unlikely event that the choice was necessary.

And honestly, after reading this, I’d like to see a few more of these arsehats get a good tickling. That bloke could have killed someone when he lost control of his vehicle. He could have killed me, or you, or your Mum and Dad.

It’ll be interesting to see how the weekend biffo crowd in civic behave when faced with a taser in future.

Henry82 Henry82 11:22 pm 07 Sep 11

LSWCHP said :

I’ve thought long and hard about this taser business, and the possibility of the inappropriate use of tasers to enforce compliance. Really, this seems like a good outcome to me. The alternative would’ve been an entirely justifiable shooting. As I’ve stated elsewhere, I’d also rather be tased than shot, in the unlikely event that the choice was necessary.

While a taser is an excellent disincentive to re-offend (particularly when i justice system is so good at giving warnings/minimal punishment for repeat offenders) it is open to misuse. Spend a few minutes on youtube and watch american police taser people 5 or 6 times in a row for non-compliance. What really annoys me is when they’re tased again because of involuntary actions caused by the initial taser. Really, a taser IS self defence and imo should only be used when the attacker is wearing googles (therefore resistant to OC). Far too many negatives that outweigh the positives imo, particularly when OC is already standard issue.

I’ve posted it on this forum a few times, but i watched a video of a police trainer who had been shot and tasered (on separate occasions), he said he would choose the bullet every time.

Jethro Jethro 11:26 pm 07 Sep 11

LSWCHP said :

I’ve thought long and hard about this taser business, and the possibility of the inappropriate use of tasers to enforce compliance. Really, this seems like a good outcome to me. The alternative would’ve been an entirely justifiable shooting. As I’ve stated elsewhere, I’d also rather be tased than shot, in the unlikely event that the choice was necessary.

And honestly, after reading this, I’d like to see a few more of these arsehats get a good tickling. That bloke could have killed someone when he lost control of his vehicle. He could have killed me, or you, or your Mum and Dad.

It’ll be interesting to see how the weekend biffo crowd in civic behave when faced with a taser in future.

I’m sure they’ll be shocked to see a taser

willo willo 5:23 am 08 Sep 11

i doubt a copper is going to “ramp” up a situation just to use a taser…….however from personal experience i can tell you that some cops do tell lies, yes i know…it surprised me too….so who knows what actually happened in this instance?

dpm dpm 7:59 am 08 Sep 11

Henry82 said :

While a taser is an excellent disincentive to re-offend (particularly when i justice system is so good at giving warnings/minimal punishment for repeat offenders) it is open to misuse. Spend a few minutes on youtube and watch american police taser people 5 or 6 times in a row for non-compliance. What really annoys me is when they’re tased again because of involuntary actions caused by the initial taser. Really, a taser IS self defence and imo should only be used when the attacker is wearing googles (therefore resistant to OC). Far too many negatives that outweigh the positives imo, particularly when OC is already standard issue.

I’ve posted it on this forum a few times, but i watched a video of a police trainer who had been shot and tasered (on separate occasions), he said he would choose the bullet every time.

I know this is boring and annoying for a lot of you out there, but for mine, it really comes down to not getting yourself into a situation where you are a danger to yourself or (more importantly) someone else.
Our society is pretty damn good, and there a few basic rules (laws) that help to keep it that way. I don’t find them that ardous to follow overall.
If you want to live in an out-of-control way, tnen move to a cult on a farm or something. Otherwise, simply treat people that way you’d like to be treated yourself and you’ll be very unlikely to be tasered, clubbed, pepper sprayed or shot. That also means you’re even more unlikely to be on the receiving end of the rare taser misuse too. I can understand that OK. Simple tip: If a cop has gone out of his way to ‘engage’ you, and is pointing a taser at you, you’re probably being a dick to someone at around that time, in a way that is against a law….
BTW, I also understand that it’s good for people to argue both sides of issues like this – it helps make sure the best balance is maintained… So write to your local minister, taser haters! 🙂

shadow boxer shadow boxer 8:15 am 08 Sep 11

There’s lots wrong with this story.

Why did we have a high speed pursuit from Kambah to Monash reaching speeds of 140kmh for 8 minutes putting every road user in mortal danger and why was it necessary for a police Sergeant to Taser an unarmed single offender in order to make an arrest.

If this was routine traffic stop there appears no justification for putting the general public in this sort of danger.

Tooks Tooks 9:31 am 08 Sep 11

Regarding capsicum and battons, both can inflict severe injury. In fact people have died from being sprayed by OC.

Source/link? Not saying you’re wrong, but I’ve asked the same of other people who’ve made the same claim, and they couldn’t source it.

OC is also not washed away easily with water and requires a special eye wash. Even then, the effects can reportedly be felt for anything from hours to many days afterwards.

It does not require a special eye wash – that’s simply untrue.

CharlieB CharlieB 9:34 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks said :

You really believe they pursued him so they could use a taser? Hopefully not.

1) Tasers were not brought in to replace deadly force
2) The officer doesn’t need to be in fear for his life to use it. Where did that myth come from?
3) Capsicum spray would be a bad option in that case. A baton would cause injury to the offender.

Physical restraint? I’ll tell you what, I’ll charge at you one on one and see if you can restrain me without getting hurt.
4) Capsicum spray was never supposed to replace lethal force. That’s ridiculous.

Not having a go at you, but let’s not perpetuate some of the myths out there. Bottom line is, the offender suffered five seconds of pain and neither he, nor any police, were injured. Is that not a good outcome?

No I don’t really think they chased him just to taser. I do think the high speed chase was inadvisable and was probably the most dangerous part of the whole episode.
Every one of these non-lethal weapons has been sold to the public as a replacement for shooting. Any shooting that occurs when a new weapon is being considered is posed as a ‘wouldn’t it have been better to taser them than kill them’ scenario. Sure I’m glad the police didn’t shoot the jerk, that would have been way out of proportion.
If these are myths, then the police have made zero effort to prevent them being perpetuated before the tasers were brought in.
I won’t loose any sleep over this guy’s taserirng, however, as someone else said – tasers have been abused in other places (whether the use was legal or not).
Physical restraint was only one option, depending on you physique I might easily restrain you – or have no chance if you’re much larger/stronger than me. Not knowing the officer or the perp I only offered it as another option the police have.
I’ve only since heard the officer was alone, which seems strange to me, that should be reviewed – police should not work alone, ever. Working alone is unsafe for the police.

Tooks Tooks 9:41 am 08 Sep 11

shadow boxer said :

There’s lots wrong with this story.

Why did we have a high speed pursuit from Kambah to Monash reaching speeds of 140kmh for 8 minutes putting every road user in mortal danger and why was it necessary for a police Sergeant to Taser an unarmed single offender in order to make an arrest.

If this was routine traffic stop there appears no justification for putting the general public in this sort of danger.

Your first point is just part of the never-ending debate into police pursuits, which I won’t get into here. Not every road user was on the road at the time (I know I wasn’t), so not every road user was put in mortal danger.

On your second point, in a one-on-one situation, see if you can take down an offender without either one of you getting hurt. You’d want to be pretty confident in your own abilities and pretty confident he didn’t have a knife (or worse) tucked into the back of his pants when you get in a wrestle. If he gets your gun, it’s game over.

fgzk fgzk 9:41 am 08 Sep 11

The AFP should just release the video footage of the incident, then we could see the threat posed by the individual. Wait…… they cant because our taser are not fitted with cameras. Anything can happen when the cameras not rolling.

fgzk fgzk 9:59 am 08 Sep 11

Tooks having a gun is always going to draw unwanted attention. Trained in Victoria in the 1990’s did we. Shoot first and lose the reports later. To expect every deranged motorist to be armed with a hand gun or want your gun seems a bit far fetched. Unless its the 90s in VIC of course.

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