Man charged over nightclub sex assault

*hug*

and one for you too Special, for the beer enjoyment wishes *hug* : )

It was fun wasn’t it : )
Vice pointed out we should be careful not to attract rapists and I told Vice not to tell the rapist that cause they’ll consider it an excuse.

Then we got disillusioned by the state of the world and decided to have a beer instead.

Aw : )

Howdy – a lawyer of sorts. Preference for moral lecturing.
Special G – see what happens when people are nice!

Aww you guys need to have a cuddle. (consentual of course) never seen that much back slapping agreeance on RA before. Enjoy your beers

It just came to me. You’re a lawyer? : )

VicePope – I reckon your rant would hopefully conclude that we are progressing, and law and ethics help keep each other in check. In Austrailyland at least : )

Definitely time for me go go off and kill some brain cells : ) I tend to prefer pubs so I should be ok… It’s just getting there… de de de de.

Howdy – I think you’re right. It is (really) outrageously wrong that normal, sane, sensible, law-abiding people have to modify what they do and how they do it because they would otherwise be monstered by the mad and the bad. (Cue an incompetent pseudo-philosophical rant from me about whether there is a gradation in individual rights and whether, if this is so, its regulation is a matter to be addressed by law or by ethics).

Enjoy the drink. Some places are safe and good.

VicePope – Yeah sorry for being argumentative. I was just worried people would take what you were saying the wrong way, not good under such a topic : )

There’s so much discussion beyond what you said that my mind boggles and heads off in too many directions, I think I’ll spare everyone the thesis though… I agree with what you say, but then there’s this and this and oh dear now I need a drink : )

Some people are unreasonable, some are not. Some unreasonable people if given half a chance were only putting up a facade to protect themselves. Some people got a bad start in life (some bad examples of how to act when growing up), but this doesn’t mean their minds have to be tainted forever…

What’s sad though is that I as a result of ‘dangerous’ people I feel the need to often intentionally dress down. I want to look good but I want to feel safe at the same time. I will wear jeans and a tshirt instead of a shirt and top in order to not attract attention. If I know I have to walk past a dodgy nightclub or too far to my car at night I will wear shoes I can run in just in case – changing an entire outfit as a result. What is that? That’s fear. People don’t want to live in fear either : )

Howdy – thanks for being nice to me. A perfect world would consist only of reasonable people, or at least people who are reasonable in their treatment of others. This planet has lots of people who lack respect, empathy, reason and courtesy. Why that is can best be left to anthropologists, sociologists and psychologists. Society can manage, or take the edges off, some of their more extreme behaviour, but it will sneak out sometimes.

Are they part of the system (like tigers if one wanders through a jungle) or are they an imperfection in human society that we should ignore because their wrong impulses are demonstrably wrong and, by any reasonable set of principles, they should not give way to them? To agree, as any rational person would, that some actions are wrong is not to say that they do not happen or cannot happen. They should not happen. My money is on responding by, for example, not provoking lunatics in car parks or engaging with erratic users of chemical products in Civic.

I have never been accused of dressing alluringly, or so that I appear to be seeking the congress of the mosquito with any random passer by. It’s something that goes with being substantial and of forbidding mien. (You could dip a tank into a vat of pink fluoro paint, but it would still look unfriendly and unappealing).

But only on Boxing Day?

VicePope – Your words are very wise and you understand that things aren’t black and white in our world and we need to be responsible for our own actions as well in order to ‘survive’.

Part of surviving is being very careful that the people who ‘don’t want to’ take responsibility for their own actions aren’t given any excuses to harm others.

You may understand all that goes into an interaction between two people, cause and effect etc, but you have to change your tactic when talking to someone who is a bit more narrow minded as they may only think in black and white!

Does that make any sense? I think I just waffled…

Hell yeah, boycott all shopping malls and nightclubs!!!

(Or if you really must be picky just the ones you don’t like : P)

It’s all part of an evil conspiracy to take money from us anyways…

Howdy – I agree fully on the undesirabiity of making excuses, or of condemning the bloke out of hand, or assigning racial stereotypes. And I agree on the “prudence” issue at some levels. In a perfect world, people could dress as they wish, drink irresponsibly and so on without facing criminal assault. But it’s not a perfect world – there are dills of all races and religions who think they have a right, that no means yes and that any woman displaying her ankles is begging for it. They think they have a right to steal or vandalise anything not locked down and to rob anyone who looks vulnerable as well.

We probably expect people to drive defensively (ie, not assert a right when to do so will lead to an avoidable collision even if the other person is at fault). We buy insurance and we take advice before we invest. Is life and personal security and dignity less valuable?

It’s an issue that troubles me, and makes me wonder whether how many sets of standards we should apply to our actions.

Hey, I never denied that there are skanky chicks at nightclubs 😛

My comment was aimed mainly at Ralph’s insidious post… and at the suggestion that because this happens, people should boycott all nightclubs.

This also happens in shopping malls… should we boycott all shopping malls?

VicePope – yeah, sadly that is the way of life if you want to survive – trust no-one.
I just also wanted to stop people making ‘excuses’ for the guy. This does nothing to condone the act of rape. Rather it justifies things a bit more for the next guy if they feel they have the support or sympathy of others.

Saying “obligation of prudence” to me would be offering support to the next guy.

‘oh she was obligated to be more prudent and should have been wearing shorts at the Big Day out cause it was so easy for me to slip one in’

There is no ‘obligation’ to be prudent. It’s just safer to be that way if you are female.

Mr Evil – 20 stone is c127 kg. But do we know how big this charged person was? Do we know what he said? Do we know it was the mens’ loo? If we don’t, why don’t we just keep quiet until we do. If we must speculate, why not try philosophy, theology or the more arcane reaches of cosmology?

Howdy – you are right about the fact that women have a right not to be raped and that their behaviour, dress etc is not about inviting rape. And I expect some rapists might not be affected by what is worn because they are looking for vulnerability.

I wonder, at an ethical level, about whether there is an obligation of prudence – for example, I don’t leave my car unlocked in insecure parking lots and I generally avoid using some ATMs at some times of the night. I have a right to do both these things, and no-one has a right to pinch my car or mug me, but I’d prefer not to have to go through the grief.

No, I’ve been chased before though, I wasn’t going to stick around to find out if the person would take no for an answer : )

Howdy, you ever tried saying “No” to a 20 stone Pacific Islander!

I understand some peoples ‘angle’ in regard to the ‘seriousness’ of the rape but please don’t make excuses for the guy – alcohol, girl wearing clothes to pick up, girls getting with guys and giving them an boner, using the guys loo etc

Many women, get drunk, dress skimpily, snog guys – to have fun. TO HAVE FUN. They are not ‘asking’ to be raped.

We may think that ‘using the guys loo’ is a silly thing to do – but only because of dodgy guys like this one, the dodgy guys are the problem there.

No-one has any right to have intercourse with anyone unless there is mutual and continual consent.

Intercourse isn’t a trivial matter, it also can involve unwanted pregnancy, STD’s, losing your virginity, physical harm and emotional trauma.

EVERYONE has a right to say NO to that. No matter what the circumstances leading up to it are.

No doubt – Mooseheads.

Girls often use the male bathrooms as the lines are too long in the females. Shes obviously not throught it through very well, some guy has come in behind her and closed the door. You can’t hear yourself think anywhere in club (toilets included) with the shit music they blast out with too much bass. So nobody probably heard her calling out.

Cool I’m now 30 something so I’m off to get the skanky chicks..

I don’t condone rape, but one wonders how much alocohol was sunk before it took place.

I had no parents DMD. I am a bastard.

I blame your parents, Pandy. From what recent news says, the quality of prostitution is dropping in this town, so the perv’s are resorting to drastic measures…

I blame the parents.

Yeah, Ralph…anglo-aussies never ever rape people. That Marist brother in the headlines recently had to change his name to something sounding mederterrainian/east-european so he could join the club.

P.S. You are a wanker.

Yeah Dante! Blasphemy!

(I actually posted the comment about the skanky chicks)

yeah Dante, isn’t that the reason most guys go out these days? hehehe

@Dante – what’s wrong with skanky chicks ?

More from the ABC here.

Note the alleged perpetrator’s name.

Then draw your own conclusion.

Pretty

obvious.

Comment by Ralph — 21 January, 2008 @ 1:43 pm

What exactly does that mean?

It can’t be Academy, the place is closed until the start of February.

…some amazing stereotypes being thrown around in this thread.

Of the times I’d been into Academy there was a tremendous queue for the toilets, such that unless the accused has negligible staying power, there could be a list of potential witnesses to say “Yeah, they were getting busy in there while I had to stay outside and piss all over my Supre skirt.”

I was going to say that at least security were on to it, but then I wondered how the guy managed to go so far, unless no-one saw him ‘drag someone off’ initially.

Then I read the ABC article again: “Security staff from the night club alerted police, who arrested the man at the scene”. And wondered if they confronted the man before they called police or were they too scared?

I hope to god they didn’t wait for the cops to deal with it…

Don’t pubs and clubs have some sort of duty of care to their patrons?

This sort of stuff should not be happening in this day and age.

it’s funny cause when it’s mooseheads or academy, the clubs name is always hidden, while every other club in town, they say the name. I wonder how much the owners pay the media to keep that bit of info out.

Could be academy – don’t they have the highest reported drink spiking incidents?

The accused played rugby for Royals last year, so it was probably DickMooseheads.

I second that howdy. Nightclubs are for desperate 30 somethings and skanky chicks

And at a manuka night club years ago, just before it closed down. The guy waited til the end of the night and no-one noticed unfortunately.

Makes me feel sick.

Boycott nightclubs, go see some bands instead.

Something like this happened in Club Habana a few years back.

But Ralph, that’s how they find women in his homeland! 😉

Special G – I don’t know either, but my impression is that Mooseheads has pretty robust security. Ralph – I saw the name, but don’t have a clue what you mean. It suggests a Pacific Islander – most of whom are quiet, law-abiding people, even if often larger than the average. And I’d have to agree with Blah about Jazz’s comment and the need for humanity to the victim. Let’s wait for some proper evidence and a proper process, eh?

More from the ABC here.

Note the alleged perpetrator’s name.

Then draw your own conclusion.

Pretty

obvious.

Thanks for pointing that out Blah. Good to see you jumping to conclusions about my assesment of the situation too, or any sympathy i may have for the victim or her family & friends, or hell, even for the guy who was arrested. I dont see anything related to that in my original reply.

You will note if you’d care to read the artilce more closely (which is all of what- 10 lines long) that it does not mention how they got in there in the first place either. Hence my question. Did the guy drag her (unwilling) off the dance floor, through a bathroom and then into a cubicle without anyone intervening? I doubt it. More likely they were both making out, and he went further than she wanted to go.

You on the other hand are automatically placing ALL blame on the guy who was subsequently arrested and will front up to the courts for his actions. Heaven forbid we as a society automatically assume guilt before being judged (ala mr Evils comment). Otherwise heaven help you if you ever piss off the wrong girl/guy.

I’d defend you Mr Evil by saying that if i was in the girls situ I would welcome such a comment – then I realised maybe blah was only really talking to Jazz, doh!

Blah, why don’t you read what I’ve written, you twit!

Dear Blah, Welcome to the internet!

Good to see you jumping to conclusions about the incident before reading the article, Jazz. Or indeed knowing any of the facts at all.

As usual on riotAct, no sympathy is shown for the victim or any of their family or friends who might be reading before this type of comment is posted.

Top bloke! No doubt he’ll get to find out what it feels like to be raped himself sometime real soon.

I’ve got my money on Mooseheads.

according to an article i just read, he forced her into the cubicle. Does anyone know which club it happened at?

I’m no lawyer, but I don’t think initial consent in the ACT is legally binding or enduring.

“Yes” possibly means “Yes, but until I say no.”
“No” probably still means “No”.

anyone care to guess how they both got in a toilet cubicle in a nightclub in the first instance?