Police Wrap - 21 October

dexi said :

“stick and carrot is needed to help them off the dodgy path, but i think there is too much carrot, and not enough stick…”

Sticks are for breaking up and putting at the bottom of the compost heap for air. Compost is then placed on the garden by the child. Carrots are planted and thrive. Child eats carrots and feels full. What is left goes on the compost heap. Child sees and feels growth. Cycle of life as a demonstration.

Beat child with stick, then shove carrot in his face and tell him he cant have it because he is scum. Cycle of life in mans real world.

eh?
what?

I think you missed the point. They will be in a remand centre. They need to be rehabilitated. they don’t need luxuries that they certainly don’t have in the cold hard reality they come from. they need hope, they need passion to excel and drag themselves out of their personal hells. If we give them luxuries, why would they want to leave?

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to sell fish and he eats steak.”

Wow, ‘Gaylord’ – there’s a term I haven’t heard for a while! Let’s try to make it a bit smarter for RiotACT comments, however.

dexi said :

“having a pool, indoor sports and outdoor sports facilities is probably aimed at showing these kids a better life, “

I think they have access to all these facilities already in the “real world”. Its not showing a better life when its already in all our lives.

The luxuries that they don’t have in the “real world” are, good food, health, shelter and role models. Sport goes a long way to providing some of this. It probably is the most basic and cheapest way of doing it.

really? you don’t pay to go to the pool, do you? I do. if these kids are from a bad socioeconomic background, can they afford to go to the pool?

In regards to sport, who will they be playing against? each other. would you be keen to leave a facility that lets you play sport, socialise and generally have more fun than at home? not likely.

Sport is a good rehabilitation tool, but not from within a remand centre. The focus should be on getting the local clubs involved in getting to these kids prior to their descent into crime. Perhaps the local charities can organise member drives from within their organisations for eligible kids. you have to consider that for many of them, the cost of boots, uniforms and protective gear is far out of reach…

Why are there so many underage children committing these crimes? because no-one is paying any attention to them, providing facilities such as the “youth” centres, and skate parks.

Not much interest if you don’t want to loll around playing cards, or aren’t a skatie.

where are the programs to get these kids excited about their personal dreams, desires and futures?

bugger the parents. Lets start fixing these kids perspective of life. Remand centres won’t do it.

programs that were set up when i was younger like youth insearch and the open family foundation weren’t able to work miracles, but we did take the time to sit and listen to the kids, and i see several of them from time to time – they are now contributing members of society…

on the flip side, i have seen kids from the youth centres who have slipped further into drugs, crime and other activities that no child should have to be exposed to.

whoever wins the right to rule the ACT needs to look at addressing the problems these kids face. now.

johnboy (RiotACT Gaylord) has spoken. Step back!

Thanks for the concern newbie – I’m sure I can handle myself (and JB). I also agree with Dan that your “gay” comments go beyond immature and I’d be a little more worried about your future on RA than mine.

@Peterh, I think you’ve summed what I’ve been harping on about perfectly. Well and eloquently put mate! Saving my attempts and risk of MOD – cheers!

Danman said :

Wombat Stew – the gay jokes have been pretty lame/old fashioned since …say…1995 – get with the times brother, like calling people nimbys and softheads (Thanks for that one bonfire)

Look, if you’re johnboy’s lover that’s fine. I don’t have anything against gays. In fact I have a thing for Woody Mann-Caruso, but apparently he’s with Ralph now?

“stick and carrot is needed to help them off the dodgy path, but i think there is too much carrot, and not enough stick…”

Sticks are for breaking up and putting at the bottom of the compost heap for air. Compost is then placed on the garden by the child. Carrots are planted and thrive. Child eats carrots and feels full. What is left goes on the compost heap. Child sees and feels growth. Cycle of life as a demonstration.

Beat child with stick, then shove carrot in his face and tell him he cant have it because he is scum. Cycle of life in mans real world.

Wombat Stew – the gay jokes have been pretty lame/old fashioned since …say…1995 – get with the times brother, like calling people nimbys and softheads (Thanks for that one bonfire)

“having a pool, indoor sports and outdoor sports facilities is probably aimed at showing these kids a better life, “

I think they have access to all these facilities already in the “real world”. Its not showing a better life when its already in all our lives.

The luxuries that they don’t have in the “real world” are, good food, health, shelter and role models. Sport goes a long way to providing some of this. It probably is the most basic and cheapest way of doing it.

johnboy said :

Put a sock in it TM or I will.

johnboy (RiotACT Gaylord) has spoken. Step back!

having a pool, indoor sports and outdoor sports facilities is probably aimed at showing these kids a better life, but it won’t be a motivator, it will, in fact, be a negative impact for them. providing them with a safe, secure rehabilitation environment is far better than showering them with luxuries that they don’t have back in the real world. stick and carrot is needed to help them off the dodgy path, but i think there is too much carrot, and not enough stick…

Well said. Too many people generally seem to think that having ‘stuff’ makes people happy and well adjusted, when just the opposite is true.

Put a sock in it TM or I will.

Would hell encourage or discourage Tylersmayhem poor attitude.

Poor attitude in your opinion maybe. If Caf cannot stand losing arguments by waffling on angles not even presented by me, then I’d say Caf has a poor attitude. I have no problem people arguing their points with me, but don’t put words or opinions in my mouth. If you have misconstrued my opinions, not having the manners to admit it might be your failing Caf, rather than mine.

the fact that this facility is being touted as a premier human rights compliant facility is the sticking point. I understand the need for rehab for these young criminals, but at what cost to me, the taxpayer or to the families of victims, families who are the victims?

having a pool, indoor sports and outdoor sports facilities is probably aimed at showing these kids a better life, but it won’t be a motivator, it will, in fact, be a negative impact for them. providing them with a safe, secure rehabilitation environment is far better than showering them with luxuries that they don’t have back in the real world. stick and carrot is needed to help them off the dodgy path, but i think there is too much carrot, and not enough stick…

Would hell encourage or discourage Tylersmayhem poor attitude.

Go to hell.

Anyway, this thread has long since descended into farce. I’ve stated my piece.

And stating your “piece” has certainly helped it get to farce status – I can’t agree more!

I have read your previous posts; maybe you should reread them? In particular I was responding to:

These little turds are being put in a facility that provide way more “fun” and top quality services than they would get at home. Not really a deterrent IMHO.

Which clearly is benchmarking conditions in the prison against their putative conditions at home.

Anyway, this thread has long since descended into farce. I’ve stated my piece.

And I’m saying that just because they’re treated badly at home is not a compelling reason to treat them worse in detention.

Again Caf, please read my previous posts. I am NOT suggesting to treat them “worse” than they get treated in their homes. I am simply stating, don’t treat them with rewards in form of great facilities for breaking the law.

There is a vast difference between treating someone worse than they get at home, and treating them 10 times BETTER than they get treated at home!

I think I’m not alone on this one Caf. You don’t have agree with me, but don’t take my comments out of context!

peterh said :

What I do, say or believe defines me.

(peterh @ #19)

Right on! Profound.

caf said :

Many of these kids probably get beaten at home quote]

Actually, I think it *far* more likely that they got *no* discipline of any sort, with no limits taught, no behaviour expectations set and certainly no ‘proper’/reasonable behaviour modelled…

nyssa76 said :

And I’m saying that just because they’re treated badly at home is not a compelling reason to treat them worse in detention.

It worked wonders for the convicts sent here….and there were child convicts younger than that little turd.

And just because they “might” be beaten at home doesn’t excuse their behaviour. Many child abuse victims are valuable members of society. The difference is they CHOOSE to do “the right thing”, not carry on like a moron.

it is all down to your own moral compass. If you feel that society owes you and want to get a bit of payback, from society, then you won’t be bothered when you commit crimes. The fact that this 16yo surrendered himself to police means that his moral compass isn’t leaning that way – he has felt guilt for his actions and has come clean. Perhaps it is a case of a cry for help – he may be in a great family circumstance, but, due to both parents working, is trying to get their attention. He may be from a single parent family, he may be from a broken home. We don’t know.

I can categorically state that at no time have I felt a desire to commit any crimes, even though i was hazed really badly when an apprentice, culminating in my abandoning my dream occupation when i finally broke down with broken arms, and a week long stay in hospital.

The masters were brutal. I have many scars, mental and physical. I have come from a “broken home” by divorce. I was abused as a child. These things don’t define me. What I do, say or believe defines me.

If this kid comes out from the centre the same as he went in, then the centre needs scrutiny – the approach isn’t working. It will be a case of wait and see.

DMD, once again your ignorance is astounding, better stick to a Ba Arts degree.

FYI..

Margaret Dawson – First Fleeter, “founding mother”.
Francis Greenway – famous Australian architect.
Daniel Herbert – Built the Ross bridge and was a skilled stone mason
Mark Jeffrey – wrote famous autobiography
Simeon Lord was a pioneer merchant and a magistrate in Australia
John Mortlock – former marine
Isaac Nichols – entrepreneur, first Postmaster
William Redfern – one of the few surgeon convicts.
Mary Reibey – operated a fleet of ships.
James Ruse – successful farmer
Henry Savery – Australia’s first novelist, author of Quintus Servinton
James Squire – An old hand of the First Fleet and Australia’s first brewer and cultivator of hops.
Mary Wade – Youngest female convict transported to Australia (11 years of age) who had 21 children and at the time of her death had over 300 living descendants.
Joseph Wild – explorer

Oh and why is that DMD?

Care to elaborate?

You obviously don’t deal in reality.

nyssa76 said :

And I’m saying that just because they’re treated badly at home is not a compelling reason to treat them worse in detention.

It worked wonders for the convicts sent here….and there were child convicts younger than that little turd.

And just because they “might” be beaten at home doesn’t excuse their behaviour. Many child abuse victims are valuable members of society. The difference is they CHOOSE to do “the right thing”, not carry on like a moron.

You obviously don’t teach history.

And I’m saying that just because they’re treated badly at home is not a compelling reason to treat them worse in detention.

It worked wonders for the convicts sent here….and there were child convicts younger than that little turd.

And just because they “might” be beaten at home doesn’t excuse their behaviour. Many child abuse victims are valuable members of society. The difference is they CHOOSE to do “the right thing”, not carry on like a moron.

caf said :

Being locked up is the punishment.

Some punishment. Being sent to a place with better facilities than where you live so you can hang out with all your mates.

And what’s the worst that can happen if you stuff around, disobey all the rules while you are there and treat all the staff like shit?

You get sent to bed early.

We have been through this before on this forum. Quamby was seen a bit of a holiday by most of these kids, some would actively seek to go there.

This place is not seen a “bit” of holiday, it is seen a great holiday camp, and there is NO insentive to not commit crimes. After all, you only get caught for one out of every twenty or so you do. And when you do get caught, well, you just get to go and hang out with your mates for a couple of months.

16 year old charged with ram raiding!

Wow! Totally worthy of an exclamation!!!!one!!!111!

I’m just disappointed the AFP release didn’t have it.

And I’m saying that just because they’re treated badly at home is not a compelling reason to treat them worse in detention.

The imperative to keep out of detention is that you lose all your personal freedom. I, for one, value my personal freedom far above any number of swimming pools, heated or otherwise, and I would be extraordinarily surprised and disappointed if any other readers did not.

Not exactly a very dounting

I meant “Not exactly a very daunting”…

Anyway, do you really suggest that we should be evaluating each convict’s home life and then adjusting their prison conditions to make sure they’re worse? Many of these kids probably get beaten at home – should we ensure that they get worse beatings in detention? If 3 meals a day is too many, how many is appropriate, in your opinion?

Yes Caf, that’s exactly what I was suggesting. Great idea, have them all beaten while in there to make it worse than their home life. Good grief, where did you pull that distorted view from!?

I am SIMPLY saying that these little pricks are getting put into a pretty sweet environment. Where is the carrot to stay away?! Not exactly a very dounting or unappealing punishment – again, IMO.

What I would suggest is punishment = an unpleasant experience, not fun “holiday camp” facilities.

If you honestly think I was suggesting to conduct detention by way of beatings etc, then you really do need your head read. Wake up to yourself!

You didn’t answer the question.

Anyway, do you really suggest that we should be evaluating each convict’s home life and then adjusting their prison conditions to make sure they’re worse? Many of these kids probably get beaten at home – should we ensure that they get worse beatings in detention? If 3 meals a day is too many, how many is appropriate, in your opinion?

tylersmayhem said :

Being locked up is the punishment. Or do you all value your freedom so little that you would give it away for a swimming pool and a basketball court?

…and a indoor heated swimming pool, tv lounge, and 3 (probably much better than usual) meals a day.

These little turds are being put in a facility that provide way more “fun” and top quality services than they would get at home. Not really a deterrent IMHO.

maybe they should chuck all the homeless people who have to live in cardboard boxes in civic into there at the same time…

you would be wanting to get out then.

Being locked up is the punishment. Or do you all value your freedom so little that you would give it away for a swimming pool and a basketball court?

…and a indoor heated swimming pool, tv lounge, and 3 (probably much better than usual) meals a day.

These little turds are being put in a facility that provide way more “fun” and top quality services than they would get at home. Not really a deterrent IMHO.

OH GNOES! A BASKETBALL COURT!

Being locked up is the punishment. Or do you all value your freedom so little that you would give it away for a swimming pool and a basketball court?

complete with pool and playing fields….

…and don’t forget the sweet indoor basketball courts!

A stolen case of VB says he gets off…

Word!

just wait until you see which magistrate he gets. judiciary lotto.

A stolen case of VB says he gets off…

complete with pool and playing fields….

…and off the the new summer camp facility…