NBN not as expected

switch said :

rosscoact said :

The latter is however, the most important of all. Create the capacity and people will invent things that we are now only dreaming of. Think of the world 20 years ago and how much it’s changed.

Yeah. Remember Google didn’t exist the last time the Coalition won government (in 1996). Now it almost is the Internet!

Last night, the EU created the capacity for another trillion Euros to allow people to invent a reason for borrowing some at near zero interest rates for things they have been dreaming of.
Think of how much better it was an almost debt free 20 years ago.

rosscoact said :

The latter is however, the most important of all. Create the capacity and people will invent things that we are now only dreaming of. Think of the world 20 years ago and how much it’s changed.

Yeah. Remember Google didn’t exist the last time the Coalition won government (in 1996). Now it almost is the Internet!

OpenYourMind said :

rosscoact said :

OpenYourMind said :

The cost of that physical medium is enormous. Why run fibre to everybody’s home? I like fast internet as much as the next person, however every argument I’ve seen, current bandwidth can perform or the user is a gamer or needs to watch lots of TV. There’s no strong business case for FTTH and it’s hardly the infrastructure bet Australia should be making. Personally I think bandwidth for most will be a bit like music quality, we have actually given up a bit of music quality for portability with MP3s vs CDs. In the same way, the portability and flexibility of wireless will result in it being the product of choice over fibre. This has happened in Japan with FTTH. IT people (and I’ve worked in IT longer than some of you have been alive) often think that bandwidth is everything and fibre delivers the most, so it must be the best. As we see the rise and rise of wireless technologies, for most personal applications, wireless will be good enough.

Honestly, if you haven’t seen any business case that goes beyond TV and gaming then you haven’t read a single business case, not one. Or by business case do you mean “article in the Daily Telegraph’?

Try google or even look back at previous threads here. With research comes knowledge and with knowledge comes understanding.

I’m all ears. Name some significant nation building kind of business cases that justify fibre to the home. By the way, I successfully run a business from home using ADSL. All of the examples I’ve seen to justify NBN are already being done without FTTH. Certainly future generation wireless is going to meet any of these business needs without needing to dig up every street.

I find it amusing that some of you are saying that the biggest weakness of wireless is that people share it, yet Korea is investing so much in wireless is population dense. At the same time others say we aren’t population dense enough yet the NBN design switched to wireless as the users became more remote. Harden have just introduced a form of town wide cheap wireless offering 100M/bs. They manage that with an old shipping container and a big aerial and an aerial on each premise choosing to opt in.

I don’t think you are all ears, otherwise you would have already had a look yourself. But I’ll give you a bit of a leg up.

Telehealth + remote learning + the future

The first two justify proper NBN just in cost terms and are available now but need bandwidth.

The latter is however, the most important of all. Create the capacity and people will invent things that we are now only dreaming of. Think of the world 20 years ago and how much it’s changed.

Although I expect you’re going to dismiss all this because it doesn’t fit with your beliefs.

OpenYourMind said :

rosscoact said :

OpenYourMind said :

The cost of that physical medium is enormous. Why run fibre to everybody’s home? I like fast internet as much as the next person, however every argument I’ve seen, current bandwidth can perform or the user is a gamer or needs to watch lots of TV. There’s no strong business case for FTTH and it’s hardly the infrastructure bet Australia should be making. Personally I think bandwidth for most will be a bit like music quality, we have actually given up a bit of music quality for portability with MP3s vs CDs. In the same way, the portability and flexibility of wireless will result in it being the product of choice over fibre. This has happened in Japan with FTTH. IT people (and I’ve worked in IT longer than some of you have been alive) often think that bandwidth is everything and fibre delivers the most, so it must be the best. As we see the rise and rise of wireless technologies, for most personal applications, wireless will be good enough.

Honestly, if you haven’t seen any business case that goes beyond TV and gaming then you haven’t read a single business case, not one. Or by business case do you mean “article in the Daily Telegraph’?

Try google or even look back at previous threads here. With research comes knowledge and with knowledge comes understanding.

I’m all ears. Name some significant nation building kind of business cases that justify fibre to the home. By the way, I successfully run a business from home using ADSL. All of the examples I’ve seen to justify NBN are already being done without FTTH. Certainly future generation wireless is going to meet any of these business needs without needing to dig up every street.

I find it amusing that some of you are saying that the biggest weakness of wireless is that people share it, yet Korea is investing so much in wireless is population dense. At the same time others say we aren’t population dense enough yet the NBN design switched to wireless as the users became more remote. Harden have just introduced a form of town wide cheap wireless offering 100M/bs. They manage that with an old shipping container and a big aerial and an aerial on each premise choosing to opt in.

The fact that the original “nation building” case for the NBN was an idealistic lightbulb moment scribbled on the back of an envelope in the presence of a narcissist and a pommy shop steward says it all.

rosscoact said :

OpenYourMind said :

The cost of that physical medium is enormous. Why run fibre to everybody’s home? I like fast internet as much as the next person, however every argument I’ve seen, current bandwidth can perform or the user is a gamer or needs to watch lots of TV. There’s no strong business case for FTTH and it’s hardly the infrastructure bet Australia should be making. Personally I think bandwidth for most will be a bit like music quality, we have actually given up a bit of music quality for portability with MP3s vs CDs. In the same way, the portability and flexibility of wireless will result in it being the product of choice over fibre. This has happened in Japan with FTTH. IT people (and I’ve worked in IT longer than some of you have been alive) often think that bandwidth is everything and fibre delivers the most, so it must be the best. As we see the rise and rise of wireless technologies, for most personal applications, wireless will be good enough.

Honestly, if you haven’t seen any business case that goes beyond TV and gaming then you haven’t read a single business case, not one. Or by business case do you mean “article in the Daily Telegraph’?

Try google or even look back at previous threads here. With research comes knowledge and with knowledge comes understanding.

I’m all ears. Name some significant nation building kind of business cases that justify fibre to the home. By the way, I successfully run a business from home using ADSL. All of the examples I’ve seen to justify NBN are already being done without FTTH. Certainly future generation wireless is going to meet any of these business needs without needing to dig up every street.

I find it amusing that some of you are saying that the biggest weakness of wireless is that people share it, yet Korea is investing so much in wireless is population dense. At the same time others say we aren’t population dense enough yet the NBN design switched to wireless as the users became more remote. Harden have just introduced a form of town wide cheap wireless offering 100M/bs. They manage that with an old shipping container and a big aerial and an aerial on each premise choosing to opt in.

OpenYourMind said :

The cost of that physical medium is enormous. Why run fibre to everybody’s home? I like fast internet as much as the next person, however every argument I’ve seen, current bandwidth can perform or the user is a gamer or needs to watch lots of TV. There’s no strong business case for FTTH and it’s hardly the infrastructure bet Australia should be making. Personally I think bandwidth for most will be a bit like music quality, we have actually given up a bit of music quality for portability with MP3s vs CDs. In the same way, the portability and flexibility of wireless will result in it being the product of choice over fibre. This has happened in Japan with FTTH. IT people (and I’ve worked in IT longer than some of you have been alive) often think that bandwidth is everything and fibre delivers the most, so it must be the best. As we see the rise and rise of wireless technologies, for most personal applications, wireless will be good enough.

Honestly, if you haven’t seen any business case that goes beyond TV and gaming then you haven’t read a single business case, not one. Or by business case do you mean “article in the Daily Telegraph’?

Try google or even look back at previous threads here. With research comes knowledge and with knowledge comes understanding.

JC said :

OpenYourMind said :

Once again, dare I say it, but why are we so hell bent on considering fibre to the home to be modern infrastructure?

Why don’t we just wait for better wireless? Now before all the fibre advocates get too hot under the collar, I have heard the arguments before, but I consider them to not be valid now and certainly not in the future. Take a look at South Korea, the country with the best internet access speed in the World. They are investing heavily in wireless and are delivering speeds in the hundreds of megabits a second with one project aiming for 800Mb/s. I’m far from convinced that the future for home connected internet services is fibre.

Korea is an interesting example as the whole country has broadband, based on VDSL technology, which delivers an average speed across the country of around 14mb/s. VDSL of course being the technology the Liebral party wants to inflict on the Australian public with their current plan. The same technology that Transact rolled out, what 15+ years ago now. Hmmm

As for Korea and 800mb/s wireless you must be talking about 5G wireless which they and the Chinese seem to be leading the development of. Ready by for testing circa 2018 and roll-out in 2020 though some experts are saying closer to 2025.

Of course come 2019, someone like you will be saying why waste all this money on 5G when just around the corner is new technology that will deliver even more speed (in another 5 years).

Oh and 5G from what I’ve read works by having lots of little low powered cells spread over the place, thus ensuring maximum use of the radio spectrum, which is finite. Might be ok in a place like Korea, but in Australia which is much further spread out

Whilst right here right now we have technology that can effectively deliver 1GB/s to most homes in the country over a physical medium that will last 30+ years, which can have the equipment on either end replaced quickly and easily as technology improves. Yup wireless is the way to go. Not.

Korea’s area is a lot less than Australia’s and its biggest city Seoul has 10 million people with population densities up to 17,000 people per square kilometre.
The need for massive speeds is not for everybody. Most of Canberra still has ADSL2 which is adequate. The people who need super speeds (for what I do not know) can pay a bit extra.

JC said :

OpenYourMind said :

Once again, dare I say it, but why are we so hell bent on considering fibre to the home to be modern infrastructure?

Why don’t we just wait for better wireless? Now before all the fibre advocates get too hot under the collar, I have heard the arguments before, but I consider them to not be valid now and certainly not in the future. Take a look at South Korea, the country with the best internet access speed in the World. They are investing heavily in wireless and are delivering speeds in the hundreds of megabits a second with one project aiming for 800Mb/s. I’m far from convinced that the future for home connected internet services is fibre.

Korea is an interesting example as the whole country has broadband, based on VDSL technology, which delivers an average speed across the country of around 14mb/s. VDSL of course being the technology the Liebral party wants to inflict on the Australian public with their current plan. The same technology that Transact rolled out, what 15+ years ago now. Hmmm

As for Korea and 800mb/s wireless you must be talking about 5G wireless which they and the Chinese seem to be leading the development of. Ready by for testing circa 2018 and roll-out in 2020 though some experts are saying closer to 2025.

Of course come 2019, someone like you will be saying why waste all this money on 5G when just around the corner is new technology that will deliver even more speed (in another 5 years).

Oh and 5G from what I’ve read works by having lots of little low powered cells spread over the place, thus ensuring maximum use of the radio spectrum, which is finite. Might be ok in a place like Korea, but in Australia which is much further spread out

Whilst right here right now we have technology that can effectively deliver 1GB/s to most homes in the country over a physical medium that will last 30+ years, which can have the equipment on either end replaced quickly and easily as technology improves. Yup wireless is the way to go. Not.

The cost of that physical medium is enormous. Why run fibre to everybody’s home? I like fast internet as much as the next person, however every argument I’ve seen, current bandwidth can perform or the user is a gamer or needs to watch lots of TV. There’s no strong business case for FTTH and it’s hardly the infrastructure bet Australia should be making. Personally I think bandwidth for most will be a bit like music quality, we have actually given up a bit of music quality for portability with MP3s vs CDs. In the same way, the portability and flexibility of wireless will result in it being the product of choice over fibre. This has happened in Japan with FTTH. IT people (and I’ve worked in IT longer than some of you have been alive) often think that bandwidth is everything and fibre delivers the most, so it must be the best. As we see the rise and rise of wireless technologies, for most personal applications, wireless will be good enough.

OpenYourMind said :

Once again, dare I say it, but why are we so hell bent on considering fibre to the home to be modern infrastructure?

Why don’t we just wait for better wireless? Now before all the fibre advocates get too hot under the collar, I have heard the arguments before, but I consider them to not be valid now and certainly not in the future. Take a look at South Korea, the country with the best internet access speed in the World. They are investing heavily in wireless and are delivering speeds in the hundreds of megabits a second with one project aiming for 800Mb/s. I’m far from convinced that the future for home connected internet services is fibre.

Korea is an interesting example as the whole country has broadband, based on VDSL technology, which delivers an average speed across the country of around 14mb/s. VDSL of course being the technology the Liebral party wants to inflict on the Australian public with their current plan. The same technology that Transact rolled out, what 15+ years ago now. Hmmm

As for Korea and 800mb/s wireless you must be talking about 5G wireless which they and the Chinese seem to be leading the development of. Ready by for testing circa 2018 and roll-out in 2020 though some experts are saying closer to 2025.

Of course come 2019, someone like you will be saying why waste all this money on 5G when just around the corner is new technology that will deliver even more speed (in another 5 years).

Oh and 5G from what I’ve read works by having lots of little low powered cells spread over the place, thus ensuring maximum use of the radio spectrum, which is finite. Might be ok in a place like Korea, but in Australia which is much further spread out

Whilst right here right now we have technology that can effectively deliver 1GB/s to most homes in the country over a physical medium that will last 30+ years, which can have the equipment on either end replaced quickly and easily as technology improves. Yup wireless is the way to go. Not.

OpenYourMind said :

Once again, dare I say it, but why are we so hell bent on considering fibre to the home to be modern infrastructure?

Why don’t we just wait for better wireless? Now before all the fibre advocates get too hot under the collar, I have heard the arguments before, but I consider them to not be valid now and certainly not in the future. Take a look at South Korea, the country with the best internet access speed in the World. They are investing heavily in wireless and are delivering speeds in the hundreds of megabits a second with one project aiming for 800Mb/s. I’m far from convinced that the future for home connected internet services is fibre.

Because wireless is a different type of technology. Wireless is shared for a start, too many people on wireless slows it down. Wireless will never be faster than fixed and most likely the best solution is a combination. People will need a fast link to the premise and then use wireless for the mobility around the house. I’ve got half a dozen devices on wifi now, like a tablet, laptop, phone, 2 TV’s and a blu-ray player.

Also what people fail to understand but it costs a hell of a lot to get wireless to match the same standards as a fixed line infrastructure. Just ask people when they go to a football game and the wireless/mobile system can’t cope with the number of people. an extreme example, but that is what happens. I installed a wireless system for a client and the cost of installing it with necessary bandwidth to cover large meeting rooms and small lecture theatres cost more than install fibre, but provided some flexibility.

Mobile devices are unlikely to also ever need as much bandwidth as fixed devices need, so whatever the future is you’ll need fibre to do the heavy lifting with wireless to provide connectivity for mobile devices.

The problem the coalition had was they a ubiquitous NBN was too communist for them. The thing is its been shown that similar FTTP networks has actually increased the GDP and productivity of places where it has been installed, because its a tool that helps enable startups in regional areas. As it is even Australian startups have move to silicon valey, because Australian infrastructure just wasn’t good enough.

There are so many pros to building it properly and the only negatives are based on ideological views and helping companies like Foxtel and Telstra maintain their outdated business models.

Once again, dare I say it, but why are we so hell bent on considering fibre to the home to be modern infrastructure? Why don’t we just wait for better wireless? Now before all the fibre advocates get too hot under the collar, I have heard the arguments before, but I consider them to not be valid now and certainly not in the future. Take a look at South Korea, the country with the best internet access speed in the World. They are investing heavily in wireless and are delivering speeds in the hundreds of megabits a second with one project aiming for 800Mb/s. I’m far from convinced that the future for home connected internet services is fibre.

Finally saw NBN dudes rigging up the ground in Nicholls a few days back! YaY

dungfungus said :

JC said :

Masquara said :

JC said :

No they were quite accurate and the description of work started was also quite clear. .

If they were accurate, why has all date & forecasting information completely gone then?

Oh my you have forgotten that a bit over a year ago now the Liebral party won power at the Federal election and tore up the NBN plan? For the past 12 months or so they have been coming up with a new plan, which they have not articulated in quite the same was as NBN MKI did.

Fear not if you go to mynbn.info they have the historical plan. Just put in your address and it will tell you if you were on OLD 1 year plan, the 3 year plan or neither.

Please get your spell checker fixed.

Told ya before I have this new form of spell checker that is contextual. It seems to know that if I type the name of the party in power it changes it to Liebral. See Liebral, Liebral, Liebral. Cannot be over ruled either. Pretty apt actually.

Now do you have something to add to this NBN debate?

JC said :

Masquara said :

JC said :

No they were quite accurate and the description of work started was also quite clear. .

If they were accurate, why has all date & forecasting information completely gone then?

Oh my you have forgotten that a bit over a year ago now the Liebral party won power at the Federal election and tore up the NBN plan? For the past 12 months or so they have been coming up with a new plan, which they have not articulated in quite the same was as NBN MKI did.

Fear not if you go to mynbn.info they have the historical plan. Just put in your address and it will tell you if you were on OLD 1 year plan, the 3 year plan or neither.

Please get your spell checker fixed.

Mysteryman said :

watto23 said :

Mysteryman said :

watto23 said :

As for those who say its a waste of money, I fail to see how it is even close to a waste of money. I can list a lot of things government spend money on that a genuinely a waste…

Like the $40 billion stimulus package that didn’t stimulate anything?

The NBN itself is not a waste of money, but the Labor government certainly wasted a lot of money on it with very little to show. The project was going way over budget, and behind schedule, like nearly everything that Labor government put its hand to.

Now we’re in a situation where the nation is paying a billion dollars a week in interest alone on debt, and still trying to complete a major infrastructure project that was poorly planned an implemented from the beginning, without flushing even more money down the toilet. I hope it moves along quickly and we all get faster internet so we can pirate The Walking Dead and GoT faster (let’s be real – 98% of the NBNs usage will be for things like this) but there’s a huge mess to clean up still.

As soon as you bring up what you think the NBN is for you discredit yourself immediately. You fail to understand what the NBN is for. The NBN is not a replacement internet for people to download more.
Many people already download as much as they want as quickly as they need it. But uploading data is slow and tedious. I do photobooks regularly and the online provider requires me to upload photos so they can print the book off. I usually set it to upload before I go to bed, because during the day it takes hours.
The NBN also didn’t even need to be used for the internet. It is possible to setup a private network, to a security company for example. Or for an elderly person wanting some level of independance, monitoring could be installed over NBN fibre without needing an internet ISP.

I’m happy to argue cost with anyone. The amount of money we spend on other things that have no real benefit to our society is amazing. The NBN would have returned the money being spent on it. In fact the Coalition could have built it plus high speed rail along the east coast, but instead decided to cut taxes and buy more election victories. We are still suffering from that and the Howard government created the structural issues, that labor overspent in because not enough money was saved in the good years.

Anyone who says otherwise believes too much of what their favourite political party is telling them.

Wow.. where to begin. You certainly drank the kool aid, didn’t you?

The NBN will be used for the same things people use their current high speed connections for. It will be primarily for entertainment – and a very large section of that will be piracy. We aren’t all going to start working from home and conducting virtual heart surgery or opening businesses online, despite what Kevin Rudd told you.

“Cut taxes and buy more election victories” – really? So they did what most people wanted them to do? Amazing. When they raise taxes, people like you complain. When they lower taxes, people like you still complain.

Labor overspent because that’s what Labor do. Every time. The only leftover of the Howard years that they “suffered” from was having to live up to repeated budget surpluses, and deciding on how to spend that money. As it turns out, they did a poor job of that. The stimulus money would have been better spent on building the NBN or high speed rail while he had the cash in the bank (a “leftover” of the Howard government) instead of being flushed down the toilet like it was. But hey, why spend sensibly when you can rack up huge debt, incomprehensibly blame your fiscally responsible predecessors, and have a reasonable percentage of voters still think you’ve done the right thing?

Wow.. where to begin. You certainly drank the kool aid, didn’t you? Also me thinks you are comparing wrong governments here, sure your not talking about Abbott and the current Liebral government? Sure the hell sounds like it, especially your last paragraph.

Firstly Howard should have built high speed rail, NBN and the roads of the 21st century (Abbotts current pet). Instead he wasted money not necessarily on tax cuts, but the very thing that the current Liebral government calls middle class welfare and the people who receive such welfare leaners. Ironic isn’t it? Howard actually created the problem that now Abbott and Costello, oops wrong government that was Howard and Costello, I mean Abbott and Hockey now want to wind back. Blaming labor for it all the way. This was nothing but vote buying, at the time the people didn’t need it, but it is now so entrenched people really do need it because they have relied on it to live as prices have gone up up up up up, especially real estate.

So Labor was faced with 13 years of under investment in infrastructure (other than a few minor road projects what did Howard built). At a time of unprecedented growth thanks to the mining boom and of course structural reform put in place by Hawke and Keating plus of course massive asset sales, sales of government building etc.

Labor comes to power faces the full brunt of the GFC, plus massive under investment during the biggest boom in Australia’s history, people here say what GFC, there was no GFC so Labor wasted all this money on nothing, never mind of course what Labor ‘wasted’ the money on was keeping the economy going and growing thus ensuring the GFC had minimal impact here. But yeah Labor are fiscal vandals. Yada yada yada.

But getting back on topic what is the current Liebral party’s solution to NBN. A half arsed thing that for not much than what Labor had planned and in about the same time frame will deliver a fare inferior solution. One which we have had in parts of the ACT for about 15 years or so, one which other countries have had and are now ripping out and replacing with FTTH, which is what Labor were doing. Good value for momey isn’t it? Yeah for Telstra in particular who get to sell a rotting aging copper network for a premium just so inferior technology can be bolted on top, only to be replaced IMO within a few years after finishing.

At least Labors NBN was putting in place INFRASTRUCTURE in fibre optics that would remain current and upgradable via the equipment bolted onto each end to cater for emerging technologies for many many years to come. The Liebrals on the other hand keeping a copper network that as I mentioned can barley handle ADSL for many people, bolting on VDSL technology which isn’t being developed any further, at a cost where they may have well spent the extra to do it FTTH.

watto23 said :

Mysteryman said :

watto23 said :

As for those who say its a waste of money, I fail to see how it is even close to a waste of money. I can list a lot of things government spend money on that a genuinely a waste…

Like the $40 billion stimulus package that didn’t stimulate anything?

The NBN itself is not a waste of money, but the Labor government certainly wasted a lot of money on it with very little to show. The project was going way over budget, and behind schedule, like nearly everything that Labor government put its hand to.

Now we’re in a situation where the nation is paying a billion dollars a week in interest alone on debt, and still trying to complete a major infrastructure project that was poorly planned an implemented from the beginning, without flushing even more money down the toilet. I hope it moves along quickly and we all get faster internet so we can pirate The Walking Dead and GoT faster (let’s be real – 98% of the NBNs usage will be for things like this) but there’s a huge mess to clean up still.

As soon as you bring up what you think the NBN is for you discredit yourself immediately. You fail to understand what the NBN is for. The NBN is not a replacement internet for people to download more.
Many people already download as much as they want as quickly as they need it. But uploading data is slow and tedious. I do photobooks regularly and the online provider requires me to upload photos so they can print the book off. I usually set it to upload before I go to bed, because during the day it takes hours.
The NBN also didn’t even need to be used for the internet. It is possible to setup a private network, to a security company for example. Or for an elderly person wanting some level of independance, monitoring could be installed over NBN fibre without needing an internet ISP.

I’m happy to argue cost with anyone. The amount of money we spend on other things that have no real benefit to our society is amazing. The NBN would have returned the money being spent on it. In fact the Coalition could have built it plus high speed rail along the east coast, but instead decided to cut taxes and buy more election victories. We are still suffering from that and the Howard government created the structural issues, that labor overspent in because not enough money was saved in the good years.

Anyone who says otherwise believes too much of what their favourite political party is telling them.

Wow.. where to begin. You certainly drank the kool aid, didn’t you?

The NBN will be used for the same things people use their current high speed connections for. It will be primarily for entertainment – and a very large section of that will be piracy. We aren’t all going to start working from home and conducting virtual heart surgery or opening businesses online, despite what Kevin Rudd told you.

“Cut taxes and buy more election victories” – really? So they did what most people wanted them to do? Amazing. When they raise taxes, people like you complain. When they lower taxes, people like you still complain.

Labor overspent because that’s what Labor do. Every time. The only leftover of the Howard years that they “suffered” from was having to live up to repeated budget surpluses, and deciding on how to spend that money. As it turns out, they did a poor job of that. The stimulus money would have been better spent on building the NBN or high speed rail while he had the cash in the bank (a “leftover” of the Howard government) instead of being flushed down the toilet like it was. But hey, why spend sensibly when you can rack up huge debt, incomprehensibly blame your fiscally responsible predecessors, and have a reasonable percentage of voters still think you’ve done the right thing?

Masquara said :

JC said :

No they were quite accurate and the description of work started was also quite clear. .

If they were accurate, why has all date & forecasting information completely gone then?

Oh my you have forgotten that a bit over a year ago now the Liebral party won power at the Federal election and tore up the NBN plan? For the past 12 months or so they have been coming up with a new plan, which they have not articulated in quite the same was as NBN MKI did.

Fear not if you go to mynbn.info they have the historical plan. Just put in your address and it will tell you if you were on OLD 1 year plan, the 3 year plan or neither.

gazket said :

Masquara said :

The maps have changed. Inner north was going to have the NBN well under way by 2016 according to the maps early last year or possibly the year before. FAIL!

The maps the Labor party had listed were fake, They had Kambah listed as started 18 months ago but in reality the NBN truck just drove through Tuggeranong .

Not true for my bit of Belco. They actually surveyed, cleared pits, and ran a yellow cable between the pits and literally within two metres of my front door. Dudes told me they were well and truly ready to roll out, six months before it’d be ready, absolute max. Radio silence after the election. Thanks Turnbull!

JC said :

No they were quite accurate and the description of work started was also quite clear. .

If they were accurate, why has all date & forecasting information completely gone then?

JC said :

… by the time the Liebrals came into power. …. the last major project the Federal Liebral party has delivered?

A Freudian slip or a clever malapropism?

Mysteryman said :

watto23 said :

As for those who say its a waste of money, I fail to see how it is even close to a waste of money. I can list a lot of things government spend money on that a genuinely a waste…

Like the $40 billion stimulus package that didn’t stimulate anything?

The NBN itself is not a waste of money, but the Labor government certainly wasted a lot of money on it with very little to show. The project was going way over budget, and behind schedule, like nearly everything that Labor government put its hand to.

Now we’re in a situation where the nation is paying a billion dollars a week in interest alone on debt, and still trying to complete a major infrastructure project that was poorly planned an implemented from the beginning, without flushing even more money down the toilet. I hope it moves along quickly and we all get faster internet so we can pirate The Walking Dead and GoT faster (let’s be real – 98% of the NBNs usage will be for things like this) but there’s a huge mess to clean up still.

As soon as you bring up what you think the NBN is for you discredit yourself immediately. You fail to understand what the NBN is for. The NBN is not a replacement internet for people to download more.
Many people already download as much as they want as quickly as they need it. But uploading data is slow and tedious. I do photobooks regularly and the online provider requires me to upload photos so they can print the book off. I usually set it to upload before I go to bed, because during the day it takes hours.
The NBN also didn’t even need to be used for the internet. It is possible to setup a private network, to a security company for example. Or for an elderly person wanting some level of independance, monitoring could be installed over NBN fibre without needing an internet ISP.

I’m happy to argue cost with anyone. The amount of money we spend on other things that have no real benefit to our society is amazing. The NBN would have returned the money being spent on it. In fact the Coalition could have built it plus high speed rail along the east coast, but instead decided to cut taxes and buy more election victories. We are still suffering from that and the Howard government created the structural issues, that labor overspent in because not enough money was saved in the good years.

Anyone who says otherwise believes too much of what their favourite political party is telling them.

JC said :

Mysteryman said :

The NBN itself is not a waste of money, but the Labor government certainly wasted a lot of money on it with very little to show. The project was going way over budget, and behind schedule, like nearly everything that Labor government put its hand to.

Spoken by someone who has never worked on a major project of any kind and someone who believe what Malcom Turbull and Tony Abbott tell them.

Firstly yeah lots of money was spent with little to show. Is that bad? Well not necessarily any major project needs to go through a design, procurement and ramp up stage, where the costs may well show little delivery for the money invested. But all that was done by the time the Liebrals came into power. They had reviewed process, reviewed design and reviewed the rollout and had made adjucents to go into full rollout. They had rollout out the point of interconnect infrastructure and all the back end gear, again takes time with little to show out on the street.

But if that is your yard stick you could accuse the Liebrals of the same. Since getting into power very little has been done out on the street but money has continued to be spent has it not? Why, whilst NBN spends time and more money on redesigning the network and negotiating with Telstra to deliver what will be an inferior end product. But guess in your books that is ok?

PS what was the last major project the Federal Liebral party has delivered? Abbott nothing, but won’t blame him bit hard to do that in 1 1/4 years. During the Howard years, hmmm, ummm cannot think of much really. In fact he spent money on bribing the electorate with tax cuts rather than building anything in the form of infrastructure, no wonder when Labor gets into power they have to spend to get us back on an even keel.

I notice you didn’t refute my claims that the NBN was over budget, and well and truly behind schedule. You know that was case. The rest of your post just looks like support for the party you voted for.

ozdownunder said :

JC said :

carrob said :

I live in Nicholls and my street had NBN installed over 12 months ago.

You must live on the small strip on the east side of the lake opposite Casey and Palmerston as that is the only part to have it thus far.

Yes, that right, I was a bit puzzled as to when did NBN rollout happen in Nicholls……..

Probably the same time as Palmerston, because geographically (which is what matters more with cable rollouts) where you are is isolated from the rest of Nicholls.

Just like there is a bit of Ngunnawal opposite Magnet Mart that is seperate from the rest of the suburb but NBN wise the whole suburb has it.

JC said :

carrob said :

I live in Nicholls and my street had NBN installed over 12 months ago.

You must live on the small strip on the east side of the lake opposite Casey and Palmerston as that is the only part to have it thus far.

Yes, that right, I was a bit puzzled as to when did NBN rollout happen in Nicholls……..

carrob said :

I live in Nicholls and my street had NBN installed over 12 months ago.

You must live on the small strip on the east side of the lake opposite Casey and Palmerston as that is the only part to have it thus far.

gazket said :

Masquara said :

The maps have changed. Inner north was going to have the NBN well under way by 2016 according to the maps early last year or possibly the year before. FAIL!

The maps the Labor party had listed were fake, They had Kambah listed as started 18 months ago but in reality the NBN truck just drove through Tuggeranong .

No they were quite accurate and the description of work started was also quite clear. Work started included surveying existing infrastructure, issuing build contracts etc. It also included building the FSA in the exchange and connecting it back to the POI. Or are you saying that this is not work because it cannot be seen?

As for Kambah, like some other areas on the 1 year plan don’t recall it every actually going into build.

The only 1 year plan site that did go to build was the Belconnen FSA and Civic. The rest got mothballed post the election.

Belconnen and Civic both got halted after the election except for greenfields apartment buildings.

Mysteryman said :

The NBN itself is not a waste of money, but the Labor government certainly wasted a lot of money on it with very little to show. The project was going way over budget, and behind schedule, like nearly everything that Labor government put its hand to.

Spoken by someone who has never worked on a major project of any kind and someone who believe what Malcom Turbull and Tony Abbott tell them.

Firstly yeah lots of money was spent with little to show. Is that bad? Well not necessarily any major project needs to go through a design, procurement and ramp up stage, where the costs may well show little delivery for the money invested. But all that was done by the time the Liebrals came into power. They had reviewed process, reviewed design and reviewed the rollout and had made adjucents to go into full rollout. They had rollout out the point of interconnect infrastructure and all the back end gear, again takes time with little to show out on the street.

But if that is your yard stick you could accuse the Liebrals of the same. Since getting into power very little has been done out on the street but money has continued to be spent has it not? Why, whilst NBN spends time and more money on redesigning the network and negotiating with Telstra to deliver what will be an inferior end product. But guess in your books that is ok?

PS what was the last major project the Federal Liebral party has delivered? Abbott nothing, but won’t blame him bit hard to do that in 1 1/4 years. During the Howard years, hmmm, ummm cannot think of much really. In fact he spent money on bribing the electorate with tax cuts rather than building anything in the form of infrastructure, no wonder when Labor gets into power they have to spend to get us back on an even keel.

watto23 said :

As for those who say its a waste of money, I fail to see how it is even close to a waste of money. I can list a lot of things government spend money on that a genuinely a waste…

Like the $40 billion stimulus package that didn’t stimulate anything?

The NBN itself is not a waste of money, but the Labor government certainly wasted a lot of money on it with very little to show. The project was going way over budget, and behind schedule, like nearly everything that Labor government put its hand to.

Now we’re in a situation where the nation is paying a billion dollars a week in interest alone on debt, and still trying to complete a major infrastructure project that was poorly planned an implemented from the beginning, without flushing even more money down the toilet. I hope it moves along quickly and we all get faster internet so we can pirate The Walking Dead and GoT faster (let’s be real – 98% of the NBNs usage will be for things like this) but there’s a huge mess to clean up still.

I live in Nicholls and my street had NBN installed over 12 months ago.

arescarti42 said :

My understanding is that areas that are already in the advanced stage of the FTTP rollout will have it installed, and new builds will most likely be installed with FTTP from the outset.

Everywhere else will get the greatly inferior fibre to the node technology at some point in the future.

I can’t see any new areas in Canberra on the current NBN rollout map, and as a safe Labor seat, I imagine the ACT will now be very close to the bottom of the rollout list.

Half wrong. Announced this week was the addition of 4 fibre service areas in Canberra to the list totally nearly 60,000 homes to be done by June 2016. See my post above. Though as I mentioned they don’t appear on the official NBN map yet, they said it will take a few weeks.

See the list in the link below

http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/MTM-rollout-plan-01122014.pdf

As for technology your right in the most part it will be FTTN, yet the announcement said the rest of Crace area will be FTTH/FTTP and if you read the network design principles it does say the technology installed will depend upon a number of factors include what is in and around an area. I gather this is why the remainder of Crace FSA will be FTTN. But for example parts of the west Macgregor development have FTTN, so maybe the rest of the (new part) suburb will too. Other areas all depends on what is easier.

The only interesting thing the design principles document talks about using Telstra and Optus cable networks, but makes no specific mention of other cable networks like Transact which is in the parts of the ACT. Odd as Transact is VDSL, which is essentially the same technology as NBN plan to use in their FTTN solution. So by all rights where Transact cable is there already have compatible technology that just needs to be integrated into the NBN back end. That said NBN doesn’t own Transact, they only purchased the Transact fibre network. But seems odd to build FTTN in these areas when it is already there, and besides the Transact copper is newer and presumably in better condition that the Telstra copper, which in these areas is on the power poles. Of course this may well be the plan.

Thanks for the updates, I would have to put up with the ADSL2+ dropouts.

OP think you will find that the 1300 homes slatted for Crace is actually Nicholls. The name on the NBN press releases relates to the NBN fibre service area (FSA) and I cannot think of anywhere serviced by Crace that is not already on NBN except Nicholls. Though the count of 1300 is about 1000 short for the number of homes in Nicholls. Also good news if it is because the rest of Crace was confirmed as fibre to the home.

Before anyone says Kaleen and Girlang are also on Crace, should point out that for Telstra phone services yes, but for NBN they are off the Belconnen FSA. In the same vain when they have announced Scullin, Scullin FSA includes the Telstra exchange services currently covered by the Scullin and Melba telephone exchanges. A few other parts of Canberra have one NBN FSA covering multiple Telstra exchange areas.

As to the plan announced this week all the areas (except for Belconnen FSA) are the ones on the 1 year plan prior to the last election. So in terms of order it seems like they are still going ahead in the same order. Just a few years later and potentially, more than likely actually with an inferior technology.

As for Belconnen not sure what has happened there because construction had started prior to the election, but it has completely dropped off. My guess is because design was so advanced and build had physically started in a few areas it will still go ahead but they are finalising the contracts.

So the areas of Canberra not already covered or covered by the announcement this week, is:

Belconnen FSA: Everything in Belco east of Coulter Drive and William Slim Drives.
Deakin FSA: Essentially Woden and Weston Creek
Manuka FSA: The inner south
Monash Exchange: Tuggernong south of Erindale Drive.

All the areas added above were on the 3 year plan before.

The ones added this week:

Scullin: Covers Scullin and Melba Telstra exchange areas, eg everything west of William Slim Drive and Coulter Drives. The technology is mixed, meaning FTTH and FTTN, but more than likley FTTN.

Crace. Basically everything in Gungahlin except the newer suburbs like Casey, Bonner, Forde etc. As mentioned all that is left is essentially Nicholls. Technology FTTN

Civic: The inner north of Canberra east of Gungahlin Drive. Technology mixed. Also parts of this FSA are in heritage areas and had development applications submitted a month or so back.

Kambah: The parts of Tuggernaong north of Erindale Drive. Technology mixed.

A good website to check the progress and which suburbs in are in which exchange area is called mynbn.info

This link is for those FSA’s off the Civic point of interconnect:

http://www.mynbn.info/poi/9CVI

This one is for QBN point of interconnect:

http://www.mynbn.info/poi/9QBN

Click on each FSA to see the suburbs that will be serviced by that FSA and any current activated areas and planned. That said the suburbs listed this week are not on there yet, nor on the NBN website.

Masquara said :

The maps have changed. Inner north was going to have the NBN well under way by 2016 according to the maps early last year or possibly the year before. FAIL!

The maps the Labor party had listed were fake, They had Kambah listed as started 18 months ago but in reality the NBN truck just drove through Tuggeranong .

My understanding is that areas that are already in the advanced stage of the FTTP rollout will have it installed, and new builds will most likely be installed with FTTP from the outset.

Everywhere else will get the greatly inferior fibre to the node technology at some point in the future.

I can’t see any new areas in Canberra on the current NBN rollout map, and as a safe Labor seat, I imagine the ACT will now be very close to the bottom of the rollout list.

Try having them run NBN past your door, being scheduled for immediately after the last election, then LNP drawing it out excessively along with ADSL speed HALVING after they ran NBN 🙁

The maps have changed. Inner north was going to have the NBN well under way by 2016 according to the maps early last year or possibly the year before. FAIL!

Stuff Nicholls, what about the promise that other suburbs would have it by next year but now aren’t even listed as being started yet? The whole debacle is a total sham. Liberal party has a lot to answer for, but they wanted all of us to live in the dark and only listen to Tony and what he believes, so it ain’t no surprise.

NBNco have been scant on details since the election and change in plan. Apparently there are 1300 premises in Crace and surrounds due to get FTTP in the next 18 months. Unsure if this includes Nicholls.

The politics of the coalition have really ruined what was a create project for the nation. By all means Labor wasn’t handling the project very well, so it was a prime opportunity for the “Infrastructure Prime Minister” to roll out the network in a much more efficient matter. Instead its not rolling out any quicker, they are using obsolete technology to meet a conservative projection and basically passing the buck to another government in the future to deal with. The fact it would benefit many of its rural voters and business seems to be ignored.

As for those who say its a waste of money, I fail to see how it is even close to a waste of money. I can list a lot of things government spend money on that a genuinely a waste, the NBN is not one of them.

Magic 8 ball says – cannot predict now